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View Full Version : LISTEN UP YOU WILLIAMS FANS!!!!!!


treufreund
May 7th, 2002, 06:31 PM
I have had it with you Williams fans thinking I hate Venus. :):o After reading what Venus had to say about men's tennis (which is hillarious but I disagree) and what she said about Anna Kournikova (that Anna is nice and talented) all I have to say is:


VENUS I LIKE!!!!!!!!! :)

harloo
May 7th, 2002, 06:33 PM
:rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
May 7th, 2002, 06:36 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Becool
May 7th, 2002, 06:40 PM
*yawn*

Infiniti2001
May 7th, 2002, 06:43 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Beige
May 7th, 2002, 06:49 PM
Eat shit. :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
May 7th, 2002, 06:52 PM
and since you mentioned quotes.. LMAO

What about Hingis this week.. refering to her serve .." I was being stupid" I kept hitting my serve to Venus's forhand" "You just can't do that"

Sounds like too me, that Hingis is losing alot more confidence. She now knows that the Williams sisters are inside her brain.:)

treufreund
May 7th, 2002, 07:01 PM
WHAT THE HELL IS ALL THE EYE ROLLING FOR??????? Btw, the part about the Williams fans was just to get your attention. Cybelle, Althea, RAA, Superhero and many many others are such classy posters like Oracene is but there are others who want to rain on the parade. But I have my umbrella with me. :D


VENUS I LIKE NOT VENUS I HATE!!!!!! VENUS I LIKE NOW!!!!!!!! GET OVER IT! TREUFREUND HAS BEEN WON OVER BY VENUS!


I suppose you thought this was sarcasm. NOT! Venus has grown up a lot and is now nice. So is Serena and yes Martina was a brat but now she is a lady and I will always Love MY MARTINA!!!!!

:D

Kart
May 7th, 2002, 07:06 PM
Ignore it treufreund :), for what it's worth I believe you to be sincere.

Of course, I'm not a Williams fan (sorry).

And infiniti, love your avatar :).

Dawn Marie
May 7th, 2002, 07:10 PM
I don't think anyone thought this as sarcasm, I sure didn't. It's just fake.. minded.

I just think most people thought this post was so FULL OF SHIT!! LMAO!

ot1962
May 7th, 2002, 07:11 PM
We knew all along the QUEEN is gonna win you over.

Please just remember to BOW whenever you mention her name:bounce:

You now know what you've been missing. Never too late!!!

treufreund
May 7th, 2002, 07:12 PM
Kart Thanks!!!!!!! I am totally sincere. In fact I am used to people just believing whatever they want despite my posts. I guess it's hard for some to accept that I am truly over disliking the Williams (except for Richard) and am over all the silly Hingis-Capriati-Kournikova vs Williams feuds. All of the players are great champs and deserve our respect. :)

Btw, I went back and added some smilies to my original post. Over the last few years of posting I have learned that a great deal of human being have absolutely no ability to detect irony in my posts. They automatically assumed that I was attacking the Williams fans but I ALWAYS USE IRONY! How could I POSSIBLY be attacking the Williams fans if I am praising Venus????:confused:

Renee
May 7th, 2002, 07:13 PM
Williams girls and the Williams fans keep the tennis world and this board jumping, jumping. Everybody wants a piece of them. Now where is Canada's tag team when true fiend needs them?:D

domingo2
May 7th, 2002, 07:14 PM
treufreund,

I think it's cool that you've changed your mind about Lady V. She has been many #1 favorite since I got into tennis in '97. She has changed since her early days when she wouldn't compliment another player to save her life-but she was always a class act. You must have said some pretty nasty things in the past to get all the "eye rolls"

P.S. what interview are you referring to where Venus comments on the men's game and Kournikova?

Dawn Marie
May 7th, 2002, 07:17 PM
Lol@Renee:D

Girl, and you know I can take em down all by myself.. just do that "crouching tiger, hidden dragon" move on em.:)

treufreund
May 7th, 2002, 07:19 PM
Yes Venus is definitely a QUEEN of TENNIS! Now let's not get too excited though cuz I will still be rooting for everybody against Venus cuz I LIKE THE UNDERDOG and VENUS IS VERY STRONG. The difference is that I LIKE VENUS NOW!!!! So she has definitely won me over but MARTINA WILL ALWAYS BE THE GODDESS IN MY EYES. Hope that you can accept that I can like Venus and Serena but still like Martina, Jenn, Monica, Mary, Kim, Justine, Daja, Sandrine, Meghann and Amanda more. After all I have always liked these ladies and am not gonna be accused of dumping my faves. It's just that I am recognizing the IMPORTANT STEPS VENUS HAS TAKEN. SHE REPUDIATED 100% what RICHARD SAID ABOUT HER RETIRING SOON. She is an adult now and she is no longer gonna let her dad make her look bad. I applaud her decision to speak her mind about Kournikova and the men's game. I LOVE BLUNT HONESTY FROM PLAYERS (i.e. I don't always like Martina or Jenn or Jelena may have to say but I admire that honesty. I hate phoniness!)

Btw, I am not saying Venus should bad mouth her dad or be against him in any way, but he should not be making press announcements saying that she should retire right after Serena beat her in Miami easily. I think he calculated that statement with its timing. Venus should be thankful to her dad and support him but I am glad that she felt strong enough to repudiate his statements about an impending retirement.

harloo
May 7th, 2002, 07:22 PM
treufrend please!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

treufreund
May 7th, 2002, 07:23 PM
Dawn Marie,

I doubt that you will ever trust my sincerity. Why? Well cuz you just don't seem like a person who can forgive. You cannot forgive Martina for her mistakes and I don't think you can do that with me. I don't feel that I have made many missteps but obviously you do. If ever your heart opens up I will be their with a big "hiya Dawn":)

treufreund
May 7th, 2002, 07:32 PM
harloo please what???


sorry but for MONTHS NOW i have posted many many nice things about Venus and Serena. This is not some sudden change. As the girls have changed so have my feelings toward them. That is a normal thing. It is also normal that it will take time for some on this board to readjust to new realities. Just like Fingon decided that he had a new fave or just as some have admitted that they have warmed towards Martina this is also a big change for some people.


If any of you remember the old board and my "RECONCILIATION" thread you will know that I have always been all about forgiveness. I meant it then between fan groups but now I mean it about my relationship with the Williams. It was definitely AN ENORMOUS ENORMOUS STRUGGLE for me just to get to this point. To many things have been said and done by Williams fans that hurt me and that stood in the way (btw I am not saying that Hingis or other fan groups are not hurtful but I am talking about me and my transformation) but I realized that I am not gonna hold the girls responsible for what some of their fans say. Also the girls themselves made it hard for me to forgive them but part of that was my own unwillingness to interpret "things in the best light possible" (Ruth Bader Ginsberg). And yet I preached in the old reconciliation thread that players and their fans' actions should be interpreted in the light favorable to reconciliation. I was not quite ready to do that and it may still be a bit of a struggle but progress has been made and of that I am proud. I will probably not take on the Williams as my fave because the other girls like Martina and to a much less extent Justine and Sandrine are my faves by far but it doesn't mean I can't respect the Williams, now does it?

persond
May 7th, 2002, 07:33 PM
:hearts: Dawn Marie:hearts: ,

You so CRRRAAAzeee:kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

Renee
May 7th, 2002, 07:58 PM
They are no match for you, Dawn. No match at all:wavey:

villa
May 7th, 2002, 08:13 PM
if truefrend claims that he is sincere about changing his opinion of venus than he needs to be given the benifit of the doubt, for what it's worth i believe that you are sincere.:)

Crazy Canuck
May 7th, 2002, 08:56 PM
treufreund - I wouldn't even bother trying to argue with people about this.

You say you like something and praise that person, then you are right.

There is no arguement to make. People who jump in and only have negative things to say about the positive - well that really says something about those people doesn't it?

Cherio :wavey:

HAIL-VENUS
May 7th, 2002, 08:56 PM
Treufreund, when did this happen. I mean, just recently you accused Venus and Serena of being "fake". Unlike a lot of Venus fans, who were won over by her smile and fascinating tennis game, you are suddenly 'in love' with Venus because she thinks Anna is nice and talented, and she publicly announced that she's not going to retire like her dad said she was? Listen, if you like Venus, then that's kool, but you must understand why a lot of Williams fans won't trust you based on this one post. I'm just waiting for next week, or next month when you start attacking Venus again. I think a lot of Williams fans are.

Fingon
May 7th, 2002, 09:01 PM
treufreund, the other day I started a post to tell Venus fans that Venus and Serena were in tennis magazine.

although not against me, it degenerated in a fight because a poster (that is not a native english speaker) said "his" referring to Oracene.

The level of sensibility is so disproportionate that I think that with a few exception, you can't even mention the name Williams without getting flamed, even if your intentions are good.

I have decided to just ignore as I am truly sick of it, it's like a religion and you are damne if say something bad, you are damned if say something good.

Personally I have better things to do than to feed people's needs for fight and revindications. Good intend but it was condemned to failure from the beginning.

HAIL-VENUS
May 7th, 2002, 09:10 PM
This post was only "condemed to failure" because Treufreund has said so many negative things about Venus in the past, until it's almost a miracle if his feelings have changed about her. I personally think that it shouldn't matter if anyone agrees about you liking Venus or not. If you like her or dislike her, that's your business. You don't need anyone's permission to do so. Besides, it really doesn't matter to me if you like Venus or not. I already know what you just found out about her. she's kool:cool:

Jessica02
May 7th, 2002, 09:12 PM
:wavey: Truefreund!

I think its great you are saying something positive about Venus. It shows what a great person you are!

Fingon
May 7th, 2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by HAIL-VENUS
Treufreund, when did this happen. I mean, just recently you accused Venus and Serena of being "fake". Unlike a lot of Venus fans, who were won over by her smile and fascinating tennis game, you are suddenly 'in love' with Venus because she thinks Anna is nice and talented, and she publicly announced that she's not going to retire like her dad said she was? Listen, if you like Venus, then that's kool, but you must understand why a lot of Williams fans won't trust you based on this one post. I'm just waiting for next week, or next month when you start attacking Venus again. I think a lot of Williams fans are.

Hail Venus, I too stereotype some posters based on past behaviour. However, if they say something thoughtfull, positive or funny, I acknowledge that. I won't think that if someone says something good, it's automatically bad because of the person who has said that.

I have found many times that poster to who I disagreed all the time (you for example) come with interesting, thoughfull posts, and I won't just throw them away because I have disagreed with that person.

Some times posters I agree with and normally like make an ass of themselves, some time I make an ass of myself. But I think that to label a person for past behaviour is at best silly, and discriminatory. Although I normally disagree with you, I won't read your posts thinking that there is something hidden and bad, I will read and judge them by themselves. A good idea or a good thought are good in themselves, despite who the author is.

ot1962
May 7th, 2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Fingon
you can't even mention the name Williams without getting flamed, even if your intentions are good.



Maybe you forgot to address her as the QUEEN?:D
Or even make a gracious BOW when you call her name.:bounce: :bounce:

We are sensistive to way the the QUEEN is treated in public. After all, we are her faithful subjects:D

TeeRexx
May 8th, 2002, 12:21 AM
My, this was a fun little thread. ;) :cool:

Oh, I forgot to do an eye roll. :rolleyes:

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 02:46 AM
HAIL-VENUS,

It was destined to "fail" by some posters' standards because their hearts are just as icy as mine once was towards the Williams. Notice I did not say that I now LOVE the Williams. I said I LIKE Venus now maybe I should not have been so ambitious but should say that (AS WAS STATED ALREADY, did not read all those long posts now did ya?) it has been a transformation that has not even been easy.

Will I slam VENUS or SERENA or ANY OTHER PLAYER INCLUDING MARTINA HINGIS in the future? Probably. Why would I not? Just because I have WARMED up to VENUS does not mean that I LOVE HER or that she is my fave now. NOBODY, NOBODY is even close to my fave's status. Basically just go back and read my earlier posts if you really want to understand this thread.

Deira
May 8th, 2002, 04:16 AM
Chalk scratching on a blackboard ... really hard to take :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 04:30 AM
Deira,

It's too bad that you chose to be cynical like most of the other posters with whom you have towed the line. Are you afraid to go against the Williams Tennis Association official party line or something. Is it something like "if a person has not worshipped Venus and Serena from the very first time they laid eyes on them then that person shall forever be mocked" I don't really intend to get in a debate with you about my sincerity or feelings because there is no debate at all. What I wrote are my sincere feelings, however the UNWILLINGNESS of some to resist the temptation to mock is not something that reflects badly on me at all. Also don't think that I am insulting you either but it just seems that you are taking the "safe position" here.

If at any time you feel it in your heart to be more open just let me know Deira. :) :) :D :)

Dawn Marie
May 8th, 2002, 05:31 AM
Excuse me Fingon but did you bother to talk about Jomar's reference to "Pen." ? In reference to ME? That was quite rude you know. A form of harrasment to a poster? Also Like others have stated he did not bother to change what he wrote. You can go on and choose to believe what you will, but I know what the true intentions were.

Williams Rulez
May 8th, 2002, 08:30 AM
Alright... but you must understand why so many people do not believe you... you recently said they were fake...

Beige
May 8th, 2002, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by treufreund
Kart Thanks!!!!!!! I am totally sincere. In fact I am used to people just believing whatever they want despite my posts. I guess it's hard for some to accept that I am truly over disliking the Williams (except for Richard) and am over all the silly Hingis-Capriati-Kournikova vs Williams feuds. All of the players are great champs and deserve our respect. :)

Btw, I went back and added some smilies to my original post. Over the last few years of posting I have learned that a great deal of human being have absolutely no ability to detect irony in my posts. They automatically assumed that I was attacking the Williams fans but I ALWAYS USE IRONY! How could I POSSIBLY be attacking the Williams fans if I am praising Venus????:confused:

Irony?! Treufreund, you're about as ironic as Alanis Morissette! :rolleyes: You've gone on ad nauseum on other threads about how sincere you are in your posts and how members of this board, Venus fans in particular, can't handle your frankness yet when you're taken to task you fall back on the predictable (and stale) 'I'm-so-misunderstood' routine. What-fucking-ever, treufreund. Evidentally you suffer from a severe case of delusions of grandeur. If you would only cease to live your life vicariously through Hingis and live for yourself and discontinue this facade that you are diplomatic, I'd cut you some slack. But noooooooo-- you dress up your posts valiantly trying to "disguise" them as genuine and mature all because you yourself assert something that's the equivalent of "I'm not using profanity, I'm being objective, I'm being tactful, so one one should be upset". Bullshit. Treufreund, you utilize the covert approach as demonstrated by this ridiculous thread. If this is your idea of being tongue-in-cheek, you need to go back to the drawing board!

Williams Rulez
May 8th, 2002, 01:21 PM
Oh Beige... you're right about this.

I've noticed on various occassions where he disguises his posts, and claims that it is a 'tongue in the cheek' thing and makes us look like we're all too senstive...

Heh, once, twice, even five times is ok. But 1 out of 4 times I open a thread that you posted in and this kind of posts I've gotta see? That's pushing it a little too much... :rolleyes:

And really cool way Beige, to put him in place. lol, dellusional grandeur... ooo... mighty god... :angel:

moon
May 8th, 2002, 01:23 PM
ditto Beige and Deira.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Infiniti2001
May 8th, 2002, 02:17 PM
Go on with you bad self "Mr Jason Kidd Nets loving Beige" heehee. Seriously though , you hit the nail on the head. I usually don't respond to author of the thread, because I can always read through his subtlety. Call me whatever you wish, but there is no way I will suddenly accept this turn around although the thread sounds innocuous:P

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 03:36 PM
Beige,

Your words would really hurt if any of them were true about me. I talk about myself on this board because I don't pretend to be arrogant enough to know what others feel inside. I might ask others questions about how they feel or make a guess based on their posts but I certainly don't post insulting, profane posts like you just did. Now, does "really taking it to me" make you feel like a bad ass or something? Exactly what is the reason for the profanity and armchair psychology that you use. Oh, let's see, Beige thinks he/she knows what I feel inside. He thinks I have "delusions of grandeur" and that I am living vicariously through Martina. Uh huh. Well looks like Fingon was 100% right about people believing whatever they want despite having nothing to back that up. To me it is extremely arrogant to TELL OTHERS what they think and feel and if you think you can do that then you my dear are the one suffering "delusions of grandeur"

And then you go on about all this "covert approach" like I am masterminding some sort of dangerous plot. The TRUTH is that I don't dress up my posts in diplomacy. I happen to believe that being diplomatic and having some manners is a good thing. Hurling insults, using profanity and just posting little "rolling eyes" smilies or posting little "yeah you go girl, get him" type of complicity posts is really nothing but immature and anti-social.


Also for Infiniti2001,

I have been posting some nice things about Venus and Serena since at least back in February of this year. But despite the dozens and dozens of nice posts that I have said about them, it is only the supposedly negative ones that got noticed. Gee, why doesn't that surprise me though? And of the "negative" posts about the Williams many of those weren't even negative at all but it was insisted upon by other posters what my "true intentions" were. The arrogance of these people who think they can read minds is staggering.

ot1962
May 8th, 2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by treufreund
Is it something like "if a person has not worshipped Venus and Serena from the very first time they laid eyes on them then that person shall forever be mocked

That's right, there is still time to do the "BOW":bounce: :bounce:
Go on, you can do it:D :D

Oh, and remember, she is the QUEEN:bounce:

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 04:07 PM
Oh no I am sorry I am not gonna do any bowing cuz I am too busy "living vicariously through Martina" LMAO!!!!

Deira
May 8th, 2002, 04:08 PM
Everthing has it's place I guess ... even mindless verbosity :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 04:19 PM
Actually it's senseless not mindless since apparently some of you are more comfortable being the victim instead of moving on and accepting that I have warmed up to Venus. What's the payoff exactly? I guess remaining bitter, rolling your eyes and mocking people who just wanted to report how they have noticed Venus's changes is somehow comforting, but I don't know why. Maybe an us vs them mentality is destined to remain supreme. It's not like it happened OVERNIGHT that I just woke up and decided to like Venus. Actually it's been a gradual process but I did not feel the need to record my every thought and new feeling on this board so as to have the approval of a PORTION of a fan base which is consumed with SUSPICION and ANGER. Anyway this is degenerating towards some little negativity and that was not the point or spirit of my thread.


THE POINT IS THAT I NOW LIKE VENUS! LIKE VENUS! LIKE VENUS! LIKE VENUS!

See that's not so hard for you to hear is it? Deira, can you admit it too? You like Venus too. :)

Beige
May 8th, 2002, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by treufreund

And then you go on about all this "covert approach" like I am masterminding some sort of dangerous plot. The TRUTH is that I don't dress up my posts in diplomacy. I happen to believe that being diplomatic and having some manners is a good thing. Hurling insults, using profanity and just posting little "rolling eyes" smilies or posting little "yeah you go girl, get him" type of complicity posts is really nothing but immature and anti-social.

"Covert approach"? "Masterminding"? ROTFLMAO! Treufruend, there you go again: MORE delusions of grandeur. You are not clever enough nor are you SUBTLE enough to pull anything like that off. Your "shtick" is so musty, PLEASE take a break and regroup. :rolleyes:

Lol@ your statement about social etiquette. Hello Treufruend! FYI: I can tell you or anyone else to "fuck off" WITHOUT resorting to any obscenities! Where've you been?! Anyone can be pernicious while having the biggest smile on their face! Duh. It may appear to be the "classier" way to go (read: insulting someone in a tactful manner) but in the end the intentions are the same. :rolleyes:

The bottom line: your fave is struggling, the game is practically passing her by and for that the rest of the board has to bear the brunt of your unhappiness with this reality. *Yawn*

P.S. Bingo, Deira! :D

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 04:30 PM
Once again Beige you resort to personal attacks. That my fave is struggling has nothing to do with my gradual change of heart towards Venus. I had already warmed up to Serena and now like Venus. I made a conscious decision to start interpreting the Williams' words, behaviour, mannerisms, etc in the light most favorable to them and that was the beginning of me seeing them differently. I am not saying that that was easy to do but I realized that it is POINTLESS to invest so much emotion in some tennis players.

btw, uh, YOU were the one to say I was taking a covert approach and the such not me. so your response make no sense whatsoever.

Anyway, Beige, I will extend the same invitation to you to someday join me in a delightful conversation. Regardless of anything insulting that you could post I will ALWAYS be open to moving beyond that because that's what I am all about. I am moving on and hopefully you will allow yourself to do the same thing. :) :wavey:

Deira
May 8th, 2002, 04:32 PM
You are the one playing the victim card Treufreund. You're the only one in this thread who's crying. Crying because Williams fans don't just automatically accept your new fond affection for Venus. Hello ... it's not something you have to broadcast and if you feel the need to do so, don't cry if Williams fans view it as shallow and meaningless :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Beige
May 8th, 2002, 04:42 PM
Treu, I don't care if you like Venus or Serena or not. It makes NO difference to me. My point was that you are unhappy about Martina's current form so your main objective on this board is to incite, to make others perturbed. You can deny it all you want but that's what I meant by you NOT being clever or subtle enough: I can see right through you...and so can everyone else who voiced their indifference on this thread!

Get going now, treufruend. Wouldn't want you to miss your next close-up. :D

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~tinayee/images/clapboard.gif

HEAVYHITTER
May 8th, 2002, 05:02 PM
Yes, He's very transparent. Why do he care what we care. He's full of S**T.

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 05:33 PM
"Fo sho! Nice interview from VENUS "

"CYBELLE, believe it or not, I agree 100%!!!!! I am over it about scheduling. Venus and Serena have EVERY RIGHT TO PLAY THE EVENTS THEY WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

"I am watching this match on Oxyjenn and would have to see that it's not like Venus "had no answers" and it was not only Clijsters errors that gave Venus the first set. Mostly it was her strategy. Kim opened the court much more in the second set and third set with short angles and also came to net some. ESPN made it sound like Venus was only winning because of Kim's errors but Venus was playing very well and Kim was just using the wrong strategy. "


"Like I said I don't care what Venus does. It's fine if she doesn't want to play but saying that she doesn't have time for two matches is ridiculous. She played Paris, Antwerp and Dubai in three successive weeks and did not HAVE TO. Fed Cup would not be a ton of matches but if she doesn't want to play it should not be a source of criticism. I just did not think that the poster who mentioned that really had a very valid point."

"The match was won fair and square by the better player. I saw no play that looked bizarre. Serena just outplayed her."

"Glad to see that most people believe that the match was real. wonder if Dementieva thinks it was "funny". In the past their match did look funny because both of them were nervous and were not mature players in the sense that they tried to just blast the ball on every shot. That did not work and now they add more spin."


"Actually I agree with venus. She has her own life and if she doesn't really feel like playing Fed Cup then BJK needs to get over it. Venus sounds like she was a bit miffed about perhaps BJK expecting her to play. Now Billie can go on and on and kiss Monica's ass when she probably did not want her in the first place. (no disrespect to Monica; but BJK has her faves, namely Venus and Lindsay)."

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 05:43 PM
Beige,

Whether you want to admit it or not your statements about me are just false. You BELIEVE that you can see right through me but I know that you are 100% wrong about my intentions. I am sick of all this silly fighting with people on this board over tennis players I don't even know. You think that Martina is struggling (which I don't believe at all) and that I am unhappy. Wow the only thing that makes me think is that if your faves lose then you let it get you down and you imagine that others react the same way as you. But what you seem to not want to admit is that you have NO RIGHT to tell me or anyone what I feel or what my intentions are. I LIKE VENUS now. PERIOD, FULL STOP.

harloo
May 8th, 2002, 05:51 PM
Treufrend the level of desperation you are displaying to be accepted by Williams fans is starting to become degrading. Posting messages of your complementing Venus, or you agreeing with Williams fans is shameful. Who cares? If you feel that you have accepted Venus then why must you attempt to prove it to Williams fans? While I think you are not sincere, I would like to say to you. Please let it go! Noone's really buying it, because you can't just call someone fake and all of the sudden change your mind. With your history of dissing the sister's it's all unbelievable.
But who cares? Go on and do what you have to do instead of trying to prove yourself.

HEAVYHITTER
May 8th, 2002, 05:54 PM
STOP!

All of a sudden, I'm enjoying this thread.....now that you're up against the ropes.

Beige sock it to him some more.

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 06:28 PM
Dream on HEAVYHITTER. Beige is merely having a conversation with me from which I am learning a lot. :)

Harloo you makes some great points. It's really not about me being accepted by the more atrocious of the Williams fans. I will always being open to accepting any poster if he or she can drop the hostility. Most of the Williams fans are cool with me like Althea, Superhero, cybelle, RAA, etc. The ones who are still bitter have to deal with that within themselves. The point is simple: if people make a CONSCIOUS DECISION to stop interpreting things always in a negative light and open their minds up a little bit and try to UNDERSTAND players then they can transform themselves and overcome unnecessary negativity. Many people on this board have a never-ending vendetta against Chris Evert, Elena Dementieva, Martina Hingis, Anna Kournikova, Jelena Dokic, Venus Williams, Justine Henin, Serena Williams, Jennifer Capriati, Andre Agassi, Pete Sampras, and a ton of posters. I say get over it! and MOVE ON! These grudges are not necessary.

Beige
May 8th, 2002, 07:24 PM
Then what is the point of this thread?! Why is it so important to you to make this declaration?! And how dumb do you think we are to embrace your "love" for Venus when you say it is based on comments she made about the ATP and Anna K? How facetious is that? You don't even have the fucking balls to admit that there was facetiousness in your initial post! FYI: I have to speak to you in this antagonistic tone because you can't get it through your thick skull that we see this thread for what it is! No irony, no subtlety. Just pure, unimaginative, condescending bullshit!

Ntosake
May 8th, 2002, 07:29 PM
Treufreund,

I am at a loss as to why you feel you have to announce to the world that you have had a change of heart concerning Venus, or ANYONE.

Do you really need approval or affirmation from Venus' fans in order for you to proceed with your new directive?

Just DO IT, Treufreund. Don't announce it.

IF you have abandoned a past full of negative behavior and decided to turn the page to a new chapter, then just do it: don't stand on a soap box and wave a banner! Just do it, my Friend.

I'm not here to decide if you are sincere or not. Time is the Judge of all things, I'm sure everyone will be watching to see if you will walk the talk,--er, type the talk in this case.

Just as a side note, I would always announce it to family and friends when I was giving up smoking. My history was that I had tried a hundred times at least and failed, so with each new announcement they just rolled their eyes, and rightfully so.

But one day, I just did it. No trumpets, no fanfare, no convincing them I was really going to kick it this time. The proof is always in the pudding.

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 07:56 PM
"Then what is the point of this thread?!"


Beige I have stated the point of this thread already but you cannot believe it since you are still too upset. Do I have to have a POINT to this thread other than to express myself and how my feelings have changed. I would have thought that would have been a positive thing. Never in my wildest dreams could I imagine being berated for just stating something nice. Don't you see the absolute absurdity in what you are posting Beige?

"Why is it so important for you to make this declaration?"

Your words not mine. If by responding to your hostile posts, it makes you think it is important to me to make this declaration because I am seeking approval from people who have called me names, pretended they can read my mind and even told me to "eat shit" then so be it. I will still respond because the point is that I DON'T ALLOW YOU OR ANYONE TO TELL ME THAT I AM DISINGENUOUS. You can post a thousand threads or posts saying so but it won't make it true Beige. Why is it so important to you to accuse me of something I am not doing. Take control of yourself but stop telling me what my intentions are. You will fail forever at that.

"And how dumb do you think we are to embrace your "love" for Venus when you say it is based on comments she made about the ATP and Anna K?"


AGAIN!!!!! YOUR WORDS NOT MINE!!!!! I DON"T LOVE VENUS! I like her and or at least have warmed to her. Maybe I don't know the right way to express it by I am damned if I did not like her, damned if I do and damned if I remain silent because then same crazed person will say that my silence is supporting the status quo.

" How facetious is that? You don't even have the fucking balls to admit that there was facetiousness in your initial post! FYI: I have to speak to you in this antagonistic tone because you can't get it through your thick skull that we see this thread for what it is!No irony, no subtlety. Just pure, unimaginative, condescending bullshit! "


Again you don't get it. I have TONS OF BALLS! Because I have the balls to overcome my negativity towards the Williams and to come on here and say it.



LASTLY! I still have an open mind to future discourse with you on this board Beige. You do post some very valuable information.







:)

Pureracket
May 8th, 2002, 08:19 PM
. . . . .and the Grande Inquisition continues.

(Does anybody else find this thread entertaining and hilarious?)

I would love to appoint some of you posters as my lawyers on any given day.:)

Hurley
May 8th, 2002, 08:24 PM
Treufreund, you got your attention. Mission accomplished; now take a breath.

"Condescending" is a good word.

HEAVYHITTER
May 8th, 2002, 08:25 PM
Beige

On second thought!

Fuck him. Leave him where he's at.

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 08:34 PM
Hurley,

There are lot of people on this board who like to spin what I have written or who think they can psychoanalyze me. Just because they write something about me don't believe that it's true Hurley. :)


Heavyhitter,

I see that you are versed in profanity. How impressive.

Hurley
May 8th, 2002, 08:55 PM
Maybe if you weren't so adamant about everything, it would go down more smoothly.

Refuting each and every post against you with immediacy and WRITING POSTS like THIS is grating. It's an immature tactic to go about stating your case in that manner. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much," right? If you ease up, no one will jump down your throat as much.

I personally doubt the sincerity of your initial post, and there isn't much love lost between the Williams sisters and I. So how do you expect to affect the opinions of people whose views are diametrically opposed from mine, fandom-wise? If you adore Venus and want to have her babies, cool, good onya, but know that your reputation will precede you. I think the wise thing to do in your case would be to back off. I don't see why you would care at all who knows that your opinion of Venus has softened; this full-court press to prove it makes your statement that much less believable, IMO. Reading the other posts in this thread, I think my case holds water.

You need to settle down.

treufreund
May 8th, 2002, 09:10 PM
Hurley,

I certainly don't adore Venus now. Nor did I ever use that word. Basically I have warmed up to her and wanted to let people know about that. It was VERY IMPORTANT to let people know that because I wanted people to have some hope that acrimony and bitterness towards players can be overcome by anyone. This board is way too negative, way too negative as this thread is the proof. I know that people like Fingon and Becca totally see where I am coming from and those are the people whose opinions I totally respect. The reputation I have doesn't solely come from what I have posted. A good 90% of my reputation from the crap that is written about me or any other poster. Just like when people said Adrian was a racist and then within minutes posters starting accepting that statement carte blanche and starting saying things like "wow I did not know that Adrian was a racist?" What's dangerous is that people don't read what I or anyone says but instead listen to what their "buddies" say and just go along with them.


But I can definitely see where you are coming from. It's just too bad that you don't see that I am being sincere. If I wasn't totally serious and sincere in what I am writing then I would not have gone to such lengths as to respond to these people. Maybe that doesn't make sense to you because you think protesting too much means that the opposite is true but the way I look at it is when you know you are being sincere and people are libelling you then you don't just let those thing be said. When you don't respond to allegations then people will assume that it's true and if you protest too much people assume that it's true. Either way you are damned I guess. But thanks for your reasonable post Hurley. :)

Crazy Canuck
May 8th, 2002, 09:19 PM
treufreund - I still dont understand why your continuing to argue with these people...

If you really like Venus, and they don't beleive you, well who cares?

You don't need th approval of any posters to get by in the world, do you?

Do as you will of course - but my advice is that its not worth the bother - yours, or theirs.

Jovon
May 9th, 2002, 04:43 AM
hmmmmmmmmmm....

treufruend types on May 5th
Originally posted by treufruend
SELESRULES you are soooo right all that waving and kissing shit is soooooooooooooo fake!
and
Originally posted by treufruend
LucasArg,
Honestly I have lowered my expectation of Martina but I am thrilled about her great scoreline in doubles. Regardless of Martina's performance the Williams just seem extremely fake and plastic to me. I have almost never seen an instance where they seemed genuine except during the Venus staredown of Capriati and her glares at Ai Sugiyama. I do think she was nice in her speech at Amelia Island and gave a nice interview though. So all in all they are nicer than before but still mostly seems extremely phony to me. Sorry if that upsets you.
and then on May 7th treuless types this thread and says......
Originally posted by treufruend
It's not like it happened OVERNIGHT that I just woke up and decided to like Venus.
More like TWONIGHTS, huh treuless...and then wonders why no one believes him......
Originally posted by treufruend
Now let's not get too excited though cuz I will still be rooting for everybody against Venus cuz I LIKE THE UNDERDOG and VENUS IS VERY STRONG.
lol, EVERYBODY treuless, even more reason not to believe him........he cheers more for the opponet playing Venus than the player's real fans, lol!



btw.....

Originally posted by Becca
treufreund - I still dont understand why your continuing to argue with these people ...

hmmmmmm, doesn't that speak volumes of that poster, if you know what I mean.....

treufreund
May 9th, 2002, 05:58 AM
Get your facts straight Jovon. I am NOT a Venus fan. I said I liked her and maybe that was overstating it as I have already stated that she I have warmed to her. So yes I like her in a way but I like most of the tour's players better than Venus still with some exceptions. The point I was making all along is that I know longer dislike Venus like before and have made a CONSCIOUS DECISION to not look at all their actions in the worst possible light. Do I regret any of my posts? No. NO. NO. Because that was what I felt at that time. This is now, that was then. I went back months and months and found nice things that I posted about Venus and Serena but what is your point by digging up NEGATIVE quotes. Of course I posted NEGATIVE THINGS about them. That's nothing new but that has NOTHING to do with how I feel I now.


Also yes they still seem phony to me but that does not mean that they don't have good qualities. Besides in INTERPRETING THEIR ACTIONS IN A MORE POSITIVE LIGHT I KNOW AM WILLING TO ACCEPT THE NOTION THAT WHAT I PERCEIVED AS PHONINESS IS JUST THEIR ATTEMPT TO DEAL WITH A VICIOUS PRESS. Why not try to give them the benefit of the doubt? Is it wrong for me to try to find a new way of looking at the girls?

Williams Rulez
May 9th, 2002, 06:57 AM
You're still at it? :rolleyes:

Give it up. Take a break... we believe you...
if that is what it takes to keep you silent...

treufreund
May 9th, 2002, 07:03 AM
Williamsrulz,

Your post made me laugh. Thanks. :) This thread was started with the best of intentions but that idea was quickly blown out of the water and it definitely got much longer than I thought it would but I guess I am stubborn about responding when I know people are talking crap about me and putting words in my mouth. :o

Althea
May 9th, 2002, 07:22 AM
Okay.........:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
below quotes written May 5, 2002 by creator of this thread/ treufreund



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Regardless of Martina's performance the Williams just seem extremely fake and plastic to me. I have almost never seen an instance where they seemed genuine except during the Venus staredown of Capriati and her glares at Ai Sugiyama
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Althea repeats part of the above quote, in case some of you treufreund defenders missed it
"the Williams just seem extremely fake and plastic to me" written May 5, 2002


another quote :
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SELESRULES you are soooo right all that waving and kissing shit is soooooooooooooo fake!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fingon... that was weak... just my humble opinion the poster returned several times and was encouraged an equal amount of times to clear up the matter... that is.. did he/she mean to call Miss Oracene a he

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21054&highlight=Oracene

Althea
May 9th, 2002, 07:35 AM
*Jovon just saw your post*

Treu - you knew that you had made the above negative comments (including more than quotes I mentioned) and you knew that you would be called on them...

So you created this thread just to Bullcrap around ... Right... :D

Hi Diera...:wavey:
Originally posted by Deira
Chalk scratching on a blackboard ... really hard to take :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jovon
May 9th, 2002, 11:55 AM
Hi Althea:wavey: thats ok, we are on the same page and see through treuless:o


Originally posted by treuless
....what is your point by digging up NEGATIVE quotes.

no digging required, thats the point.

Petersmiler
May 9th, 2002, 12:20 PM
Ok, for what it's worth I would like to add my voice! :wavey:

First of all, as you can see from my info I haven't been around that long and so don't know all of the personalities involved here!

However, I CAN see where Treufreund is coming from. I have, for a long time, had doubts about the commitment of the Williams sisters. This was due to their lack of tournaments, their constant talk of other careers and their fathers comments. They are both great players (obviously) but I was always concerned that they would one day just 'disappear' from the WTA!

The interviews I've read recently though have changed my opinion somewhat and I can honestly say I am VERY relieved that it appears they are here to stay! This is fantastic news for anyone who has an interest in the WTA.

Finally though, I can see why people are doubting you Treu, and maybe you will just have to wait and bide your time until people actually believe you no longer think along the lines of some of your earlier posts!

Anyhoo, hi all! :wavey: :kiss:

Beige
May 9th, 2002, 12:44 PM
this[/u] thread]

[i]Originally posted by treufreund
After reading what Venus had to say about men's tennis (which is hillarious but I disagree)


Treufreund enjoys Venus' comment(s) about the ATP

Originally posted by treufreund
and what she said about Anna Kournikova (that Anna is nice and talented)


In addition, treufreund likes reading Venus' compliments of Anna K.

Originally posted by treufreund
all I have to say is:

VENUS I LIKE!!!!!!!!! :)

So what we can surmise from this post is that for treufreund to "like" Venus, it took a recent interview where Venus makes comments about the ATP (that treufreund finds hilarious) and gives a compliment or two to Anna K.

Now I ask all of you including the topic starter: what part of this short paragraph written by treufruend is NOT facetious? Treufreund did you give Venus fans (and non-fans) any other alternative but to see this thread as a big hoax? Did you word it "nicely" (a concept you're obsessed with)? Did you, treufruend? NO! You used an underhanded approach that you THOUGHT no one would detect but you failed miserably!!

*Opening window* Treufreund, next time please light a match. :rolleyes:

P.S. Kudos to Peter, who knows a thing or two about being straightforward unlike a certain Kentuckian we all know.

treufreund
May 9th, 2002, 04:01 PM
Althea,

My change of heart towards Venus and Serena has primarily to do with making a CONSCIOUS DECISION to try to look at their actions in a more positive light. As I stated above I stand by my comments on them seeming phony to me 100%. The difference is that I can now appreciate why they might be taking that approach with the media. Perhaps they feel victimized by the media and that is their way of fighting back. SO THE POINT I AM MAKING AGAIN: The intentions behind them being phony (or what I PERCEIVE to be phoniness) are what counts for me. You see one can decide ALL OF A SUDDEN if one wants to start having a more positive outlook and to give people a benefit of the doubt. Instead of looking for the "guilt" in a person's actions, look to understand them. For me this did happen pretty quickly.


HOWEVER for many people on this board this will not happen at all. Whether it be in regards to my posts, to Jennifer Capriati, Venus Williams or Martina Hingis or any other player.

Also if you will read an above post Althea you will see where I had explained that my negativity towards the Williams in the past is not something I feel any need to deny. Why should I deny what I felt at that time? It is not easy to announce a change in the way you are deciding to look at things but my hopes that some people might use my struggle with overcoming my dislike of a player as a springboard to look at themselves were dashed because VERY FEW PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD EVER SEEM TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT THEMSELVES AND THEIR GRUDGES TOWARDS PLAYERS OR OTHER POSTERS

Now lastly why would it be difficult for people to reassess their dislike or hatred for a specific player? I suspect that for many people they are COMFORTABLE where they are. It feels good for them to belong to a GROUP like the MARTIANS or the WILLIAMS TENNIS ASSOCIATION. The problem is that so often being in the group carries a mental burden of having to hate other players or mistrusting those who don't have the same faves. An identity is built based on who your fave. I am not saying I have switched faves or that I now am big Williams fans. But I can now watch some Venus' interviews and say to myself "she' s a pretty nice girl after all":)

treufreund
May 9th, 2002, 04:10 PM
Beige

sorry to report to you that your post is once again an attempt to read my mind. instead of telling me what I meant read my posts because I have explained at nauseam and you still go back and make up some other treufreund fantasies. are you obsessed with having me as some sort of punching bag or something???

My original posts was not facetious in the least. I do like Venus's comments on the ATP, on Kournikova, just as I get very happy and always post Martina's interviews when she said that Venus deserved to be #1. I LIKE IT when players are complimentary towards each other. For the first few years of Venus's career getting her to compliment an opponent was like pulling teeth. That was one of the very biggest reasons why I thought she was rude and arrogant. That was the Venus of then. Now a wiser, older Venus. Therefore I took the step of trying to let go of the past and to readjust to the present. It took me a while to do that and it looks like from reading your posts THAT IT'S GONNA TAKE YOU A WHILE TOO.:) :) :angel:

Beige
May 9th, 2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by treufreund
I have had it with you Williams fans thinking I hate Venus. :):o After reading what Venus had to say about men's tennis (which is hillarious but I disagree) and what she said about Anna Kournikova (that Anna is nice and talented) all I have to say is:


VENUS I LIKE!!!!!!!!! :)

Treu, you are clueless. Your post is-- hence the negative and indifferent reactions-- the equivalent of:

"Hey you guys! I know you thought I hated blind people but now that I've heard blind people apologize for always walking too slow and not bathing their seeing eye dogs, I've had a change of heart:

I LIKE BLIND PEOPLE!!!

Treu, this is why there's been an abundance of eye rolls on this thread. You don't sound "nice" or anything of that positive ilk. It just reeks of insincerity and sarcasm. You even fail to see why your "approval" annoys Venus fans. That's why I'm so irritated. You emphasize so much about how REAL you are but you've done nothing but fork out rhetoric that nobody's buying for a second. Delusions of grandeur at work yet again. *Sigh*

treufreund
May 9th, 2002, 05:00 PM
Beige,

When will you realize that you cannot convince that I mean what you think I mean. I meant what I said. I cannot control what your reaction to it is. Your examples make no sense to me because my posts were sincere. There is no rhetoric or delusions of grandeur. You fail to want to confront the depth of my sincerity. Or to even think about some of the larger issues I have raised. START LOOKING AT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON TELLING ME WHAT I FEEL. STOP TAKING THE EASY WAY OUT BEIGE

Beige
May 9th, 2002, 05:11 PM
For someone who takes such pride in being "nice" you certainly do NOT have a vague idea of how to be "nice". You think just because you maintain this even keeled air in your replies and that you don't get "emotional" like the rest of us that we can't see through your charade.

Obviously, we're getting nowhere but it's been educational interacting with you: you've proven me (and others) right about what you truly are. Naive is a good place to start.

treufreund
May 9th, 2002, 05:26 PM
Of course I am emotional. I don't really care for people accusing of me insincere. Maybe people will think I am insincere but others have said they see where I am coming from. Should I be indifferent? What you call a "charade" I call RESTRAINT.

I will admit that sometimes I am a bit naive or polyannish but I'd rather be like that than jaded, bitter, hard-hearted. I don't know you at all but it sure seems that you are loath to really consider some of the issues I brought up in this thread. The debate on whether you believe me or not became SUPERFLUOUS about a page ago. There is no debate because I say what I believe and that's not open to debate, HOWEVER I did bring some tangential issues which really big to the heart of the matter, the bigger picture so to speak. I am by nature a person who looks at the big picture. And in the bigger picture this is just a place for the exchange of ideas and Venus, Martina and all those other girls are just tennis players that don't know us but who are doing well for themselves and are doing the best they can to find their way in this world just like all of us.:)

Beige
May 9th, 2002, 05:56 PM
Treu, I just have to ask then after your last reply where you claim sincerity-- I'll go ahead and give you that much-- in your original post on this thread, can you honestly say that you CANNOT see how anyone, Venus fan or not, could decipher anything negative from your your choice of words? Is the condescension imagined by those who claimed that it was? In your words, WHY would members of this board, upon reading your initial post, think you were being condescending? What was it about YOUR WORDS, in your opinion, that culminated this thread in a litany of negative replies? PLEASE ADDRESS YOUR CHOICE OF WORDS. THANK YOU!

GATORSHORT
May 9th, 2002, 06:16 PM
treufreund, you seem fake and transparent to me. Anybody that says the things you did probably haven't had a change of heart . You should go and cheer your favorite on and leave us Williams fans to our selves.

treufreund
May 9th, 2002, 06:43 PM
HI GATORSHORT! Take time to get to know me. I am neither fake nor insincere. Those words are actually the antithesis of me. Even my screen name is all about truth and loyalty. I will always be a loyal fan of Martina but that does not mean that I have to be a loyal disliker of Venus. welcome to the board junior member.:)

Beige,

actually I don't try to guess why people may have thought I was being condescending or some thought that I was being sarcastic. I thought "condescending" came up later in the thread because I was going to such great lengths to explain myself without resorting to profanity. A lot of people around here believe that if you are restrained in your language and diplomatic that you are being condescending or fake. Maybe that could be true for some people but wasn't the case for me. Personally the whole concept of "let's just be real" is just another excuse for people to be rude and vulgar and then just say that they were "keepin' it real". It's just the easy way out and a rationalization of profanity and immaturity - just MHO.

My choice of words in the original posts lacked some smilies and was a little bit teasing towards the Williams fans, or I should say, towards the Williams fans who have called me a hater or fraud and so forth. I thought since I have been posting forever that people would see that I was serious about what I said and that the FIRST PART OF MY SENTENCE WAS IRONIC. I said I was sick of the Williams fans calling me a hater and used a sensationalistic thread title and entree to the thread to grab attention so that all would be really for a diatribe against the Williams fans or against the Williams but then the next part is a sweet tribute to Venus comments on the men's game and Kournikova and me saying that I LIKE VENUS in CAPS! The effect was to be a pleasant surprise. Not treufreund who goes on a diatribe against the WIlliams but a TREUFREUND who wanted to say something nice and who meant it. I see now what that was naive. I underestimated how much CERTAIN Williams fans had taken to heart the negative things I had said about Venus in the past. The reason I posted some of my nice comments about Venus was to show that for quite some time (as far back as January) I have had some nice things to say about Venus but apparently people never believed me or just did not take notice of that. I never felt a need to point those things out until this thread was met with personal attacks and sarcasm.


So I addressed my CHOICE OF WORDS and naivete but have you addressed whether you will be willing to also address your own tendency to look at things in the "light least favorable to the actor involved". :) :)


PEACE BEIGE PEACE:) :)

Beige
May 9th, 2002, 07:12 PM
Actually, treufreund, I rarely post in General Messages or other tournament forums, so your comment about my posting tendencies is unfounded. Have I been confrontative on other threads? Yes, I have on a few occasions...but never to this degree! You post primarily here and in the tournament forums so I've seen plenty of you and frankly not all of it has been pretty. Maybe it's due to where we both live, I don't know but my NYC sensibilities tell me you're full of it. That's my problem, not yours.

Re: the "real" issue: On the other side of the coin, treufreund, is that many people delude themselves into thinking that they can get away with being negative if they do it with polite words and a warm smile. You've heard of "passive aggressive", haven't you? So, truefruend, the disagreement here involves approach. You seem to believe that one is INCAPABLE of being covertly vindictive and that everything negative is antagonistic and visceral. That's naive. Some of the most heinous people have the sweetest exteriors.

We agree to disagree.

Peace.

treufreund
May 9th, 2002, 07:27 PM
That may be true for other people for sure. But not for me. I have been blunt in the past about what I think and have no reason to passive-aggressive. BTW, you did not really address what I wrote in my last post. Instead you changed the subject about "the real issue". You asked me to address my choice of words, which I did. But you did not address the questions I have asked of you. You seem to like to grill me and psychoanalyze but when I asked you some questions (without trying to tell you what you think, whereas you do tell people what they think) about you, you get evasive.

Beige
May 10th, 2002, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by treufreund
That may be true for other people for sure. But not for me. I have been blunt in the past about what I think and have no reason to passive-aggressive. BTW, you did not really address what I wrote in my last post. Instead you changed the subject about "the real issue". You asked me to address my choice of words, which I did. But you did not address the questions I have asked of you. You seem to like to grill me and psychoanalyze but when I asked you some questions (without trying to tell you what you think, whereas you do tell people what they think) about you, you get evasive.

What questions and what is the "real" issue? I told you that I disagree with your assertion that I "look at things in the light least favorable to the actor involved". I've lost my cool a few times (the worse being on this thread) but overall I'm good-natured. I don't post to taunt others which I think is one of your objectives. It may NOT be your main objective but you DO definitely try to get a rise out of everyone especially Venus fans. That's your choice but it irks me that you will NOT admit that you deliberately try to annoy (and words like it) other members of this board.

I'll answer any question posed to me so go ahead, treufruend.

Just in case it isn't perfectly clear, here are my reasons for exerting energy on this thread:

1. I believe you're a troublemaker.

2. I believe you're insincere and condescending.

3. I believe you're naive.

4. I believe you're in denial about your own motives.

We won't agree and that's okay.

The Countess
May 10th, 2002, 11:06 AM
Treufriend:wavey:

Just leave and delete this friend matey, you have got your message accross. And you have done a good job:) Just If you are still going to continue talking, don't say anything absurb.

Bye Hun
Luv Countess:kiss:

HAIL-VENUS
May 10th, 2002, 11:29 AM
Hehe. I can't believe this thread is still going strong. Treufreund, dispite your awfully negative history concerning Venus, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I must add that if you were looking for some kind of acceptance or forgiveness from Williams fans, then you made your biggest mistake by posting this thread. By announcing to the entire WTA World that you now "LIKE" Venus, it makes your intentions seem phony even if they're not. The best thing you could have done was to let your new feelings show in your replies to Venus issues. Other posters, including Williams fans, would have noticed a change in your opinions about Venus, and maybe one of them would have started this very thread instead of you. Sometimes it's better to let someone else 'toot your horn'. I'm quite certain that a lot of posters would feel differently about your new fondness of Venus if you had not thrown it in everyone's face, but allowed us to see a change in you by your responses to her.

The Countess
May 10th, 2002, 11:35 AM
You summed it up nicley HAIL-VENUS:kiss:

Treufriend:wavey:
try different approaches from now on.
You will be surprised

Luv Countess:kiss:

Beige
May 10th, 2002, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by HAIL-VENUS
Hehe. I can't believe this thread is still going strong. Treufreund, dispite your awfully negative history concerning Venus, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I must add that if you were looking for some kind of acceptance or forgiveness from Williams fans, then you made your biggest mistake by posting this thread. By announcing to the entire WTA World that you now "LIKE" Venus, it makes your intentions seem phony even if they're not. The best thing you could have done was to let your new feelings show in your replies to Venus issues. Other posters, including Williams fans, would have noticed a change in your opinions about Venus, and maybe one of them would have started this very thread instead of you. Sometimes it's better to let someone else 'toot your horn'. I'm quite certain that a lot of posters would feel differently about your new fondness of Venus if you had not thrown it in everyone's face, but allowed us to see a change in you by your responses to her.

Beautiful, Hail-Venus!!! Hope things are well at the embassy, Ms. Diplomat. ;) :)

Williams Rulez
May 10th, 2002, 12:37 PM
Well said Hail-Venus...

Treufreund, you ought to show us through you posts, rather than starting a thread like this... :)

Good day! :kiss:

Deira
May 10th, 2002, 04:31 PM
Great post HAIL-VENUS. BAM, BAM, BAM: Nail being hit on the head

By Beige:
Hope things are well at the embassy, Ms. Diplomat



:D

sartrista7
May 10th, 2002, 05:10 PM
nice posts Hail Venus and Hurley earlier

can this thread please die now?