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Volcana
May 5th, 2002, 08:54 PM
... AND she was healthy all year and played twenty tournaments, would she retire at 23?

I'm NOT suggesting she should retire. I'm not suggesting she'll finish 2003 ranked that low. However, if Hantuchova, Shaughnessy, Dementieva, Mauresmo and Testud all improve, an out-of-top ten finish for Martina in 2003 is possible. maybe a 10% chance.

But suppose this horror does come to pass. Will martina hang around to re-claim lost glory? Or call it a career? IMHO, what she SHOULD do is play til she's 30 years old. But do youthink she WOULD do in such an instance?

ys
May 5th, 2002, 09:10 PM
... AND she was healthy all year and played twenty tournaments, would she retire at 23?

I'm NOT suggesting she should retire. I'm not suggesting she'll finish 2003 ranked that low. However, if Hantuchova, Shaughnessy, Dementieva, Mauresmo and Testud all improve, an out-of-top ten finish for Venus in 2003 is possible. maybe a 10% chance.

But suppose this horror does come to pass. Will Venus hang around to re-claim lost glory? Or call it a career? IMHO, what she SHOULD do is play til she's 30 years old. But do youthink she WOULD do in such an instance?

And Volcana starts one of her famous meaningless pseudo-analytical/quasi-compassionate threads with the only purpose to humiliate the fans from the opposite camp a bit more .. Or is this a "sour-grapes" strike back after Venus lost her final?

Are we talking about slumping Mauresmo? Are we talking about ever-injured Dokic? Are we talking about Justine who has yet to win a title this year?Nope , we are talking about the season Race leader, who is on paper, by the language of numbers, having a better season than Venus Williams..

Monica_Rules
May 5th, 2002, 09:15 PM
ys whats your problem with volcana he/she is just trying to get conversation going!:(

sioul
May 5th, 2002, 10:05 PM
well personally, the chances of this happening are not very likely. However, if martina were i think under #10 or so without really having an injury or something seriuosly hampering her, and it was purely do to the fact of everyone just being better then her, i think she would retire.

But on another note, i do find it rather annoying in how everytime martina loses a semis, ppl start looking inot the future and imply how martina has lost it...PPL...THere are 6-7-8=9 topish players now! i mean look..a healhty clijsters took out williams today. Domination ? i dont thinik so, its called competitition..we have martina, serena, jennifer, venus, henin, clijsters, seles, davenport..they are ALL seroius contenders and it just so happens there are only 4 spots in the semis, and 2 in the finals, so naturally, ppl will lose!

Toineefa
May 5th, 2002, 10:21 PM
I have to say I agree with ys! Now this is a lame thread. :rolleyes:

villa
May 5th, 2002, 10:30 PM
I don't think this is a meaning less thread for the simple reason that martina said in an interview today that if she can no longer compete with the top players and finds herself out of the top league of players she would retire (or maybe i interpreted it this way). And at the moment she looks to be sliding down out of the top league of players.

I personally don't think she should retire, she's young and she can still change ger game, martina can improve her serve and forhand, imo these are the two shots which are are making her not compete with the power players.
If she really wants the grandslams and major titles she can take out a whole year, get a new coach and just practice changing her game, she may find it struggle at first but if she wants it bad eventually everything it will work out for her.

Jessica02
May 5th, 2002, 10:52 PM
What number was Agassi ranked again...what number was he again in 97...141.. and what number is it again he claimed at the end of 99....1

Alot can happen in 2 years this topic is meaningless because we havent even got half way through the 02 season so we cant go predicting whats going to happen in November 03.
Even if Hingis has a disatrous year from now...Next season she'd have nothing to defend and could really pile on the points..

The question if and when should Hingis retire?
Answer - When it stops being fun.

villa
May 5th, 2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Jessica02
What number was Agassi ranked again...what number was he again in 97...141.. and what number is it again he claimed at the end of 99....1

Alot can happen in 2 years this topic is meaningless because we havent even got half way through the 02 season so we cant go predicting whats going to happen in November 03.
Even if Hingis has a disatrous year from now...Next season she'd have nothing to defend and could really pile on the points..

The question if and when should Hingis retire?
Answer - When it stops being fun.

ohh and do u think that martina is having fun right now??, i don 't think so, not when your used to winning all the tournaments and slams u enter and then suddenly finding yourself only capable of winning only 2 torunaments a year in january when no top player is competeing or competeing to any decent level.

She's not enjoying it, martinas current level of competition may be good enough for a dokic, muresmo, henin but not a 5 time grandslam champion. She's 21 and this is when she should be peaking in her career.
However things may occur differently but the point of this thread is that if martina continues to play tennis they way she has been recently than she will find herself out of the top 10, while her game is not changing others are improving like, henin, dokin, huntuchova.

Jessica02
May 5th, 2002, 11:35 PM
Marina has often said she will retire when it stops becoming fun.

Its not just about her on court results as a world class tennis player you get to travel the world meet all different types of people and do things you could only dream of.
She gets to go to celeb do's and gets endosements and all kinds of really cool, great things happen when you are Martina Hingis.

On court results are only a part of this lifestyle she leads the most important without doubt, but they are not bad enough for her to quit her lifestlye completly. She's not no 1 anymore, but she still gets semi's at least in the majority of her tournaments. Shes not disgracing herself and she is enjoying herself, so she should continue until this stops happening.

Kart
May 5th, 2002, 11:42 PM
If Martina finished 2003 ranked #15 then I guess that she would not retire because she would have done so long before then if ranking mattered to her so much.

Anyway, of Hantuchova, Shaughnessy, Dementieva, Mauresmo and Testud only a few of them will improve and there's no reason why Martina herself can't improve either - despite people constantly saying she's washed up already.

I can't help thinking that if she'd won one more point against Capriati we wouldn't even entertain this discussion.

Why is that ?

Volcana
May 6th, 2002, 02:25 AM
Kart - If Martina had won one more point against Jenn, neither I nor anyone else would be entertaining the idea that she COULD be out of the top ten in 2003.

If she had beaten Hantuchova at Indian Wells ...
If she had won 1999 Roland Garros ...
If she'd beaten Serena at Scottsdale ...

All the 'ifs' begin to add up.

It's possible to imagine a healthy, 23 year old Martina Hingis who isn't a top ten player. To me, that's news, and worthy of discussion. Fortunately for everyone else, there are several hundred threads out there I had nothing to do with.

ys - If you're feeling humiliated, maybe that's just the natural result of being you.

ys
May 6th, 2002, 02:33 AM
ys - If you're feeling humiliated, maybe that's just the natural result of being you.

I am not feeling anything about that. I am not a Hingis fan. But given that Hingis withdrew injured from tournament today and that her fans are likely very upset about it I consider your original post as provocative, ill-spirited and sadistic.

Hurley
May 6th, 2002, 02:39 AM
Well, ys is right, obviously.

The "ifs" Volcana forgot to add up is that Martina is still the 2002 #1 player, in spite of her losses. For her to not finish the year in the Top Ten is practically impossible; she'd pretty much have to die.

Fine, she's losing to a bunch of different players (well, is she really? Not really) but she's still semis, finals, winning; more than enough to maintain a Top Ten ranking. What she is not doing is challenging for #1.

Yet.

Volcana
May 6th, 2002, 02:39 AM
" ... provocative, ill-spirited and sadistic."

okay

Damage
May 6th, 2002, 09:12 AM
I think at 23 MARTINA HINGIS would dominate once again...:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Miranda
May 6th, 2002, 09:52 AM
i think she won't right coz she is so consisent :rolleyes:

deftman
May 6th, 2002, 09:57 AM
Here's a fact
Hingis wont be No.15 at the end of 2003.
Yeah sure MAuresmo , Daniela ,Dementieva , have beaten Martina and will continue to do so.But that doesnt mean that they will beat her everytime.Hingis is also one of the most consistent players on the tour,and you couldnt expect all power players on the tour to suddenly become very consistent.
Yes ofcorse ,they could have long term improvements and become consistent.But you forget Hingis has room for improvement as well.You never know when she's going to jump on the power tennis bandwagon.
And once she does that ,she could well recreate the exact same success that Capriati experienced.
Yeah she hasnt tried it so far.But she isnt so dumb that she would never try it out.
Hingis has had the advantage of starting out as one of the best players on the tour.So if the better players catch up to her,she will also be doing her bit which will get her ahead of them.

And I really think such pretty unlikely topics ,are best left undiscussed.Now you wouldnt like it if I created a thread "What is Venus suffers a huge injury and retired?" thread would you?
Yeah it is possible.Just one dangerous bone-structure-disfiguring slip may do it.But the chances are extremely low.

What's with the "ifs" thing?
Yes she did come one point away from winning a Grand Slam. She did it 4 times.And she didnt do it. Which means she got plain unlucky to have missed this opportunity.Which means that if this were to happen another time,Hingis would probably do it. To have come so close to winning a grand slam shows that if she improves, a win is definetily possible.
That's what everyone is trying to say.Yeah she didnt do it.
But the fact that she came so close ,shows that she can do it.Just because you choke once doesnt mean you'll choke everytime.May I remind you that Venus was ahead a break in the final set against Hingis at US Open 1999,but lost the next 4 games and the match.The very next year ,she game back to win 4 games and the match and eventually the tournament.
Just goes on to show how the cards can change.
If Venus can do it,so can Hingis.

lrg bllt
May 6th, 2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Hurley
Well, ys is right, obviously.

The "ifs" Volcana forgot to add up is that Martina is still the 2002 #1 player, in spite of her losses. For her to not finish the year in the Top Ten is practically impossible; she'd pretty much have to die.

Fine, she's losing to a bunch of different players (well, is she really? Not really) but she's still semis, finals, winning; more than enough to maintain a Top Ten ranking. What she is not doing is challenging for #1.

Yet.

I agree with you Hurley, there is no way I can see Martina dropping out of the top 10 anytime soon, unless she retires, which I seriously doubt she is going to do, she is still young, everyone seems to forget that, I guess its because she started off so young...but she has plenty of time to improve and by the way she talks she is not going anywhere soon and will continue to fight to be the #1....
Martina is leading the 2002 race for #1, she has won two tournaments, got to the final of the Aus Open and Indian Wells, reached the semis and quarters in others..and that speaks for itself, that is a pretty good record for someone that in less than two years time will drop out of the top 10..:rolleyes:..She isn't going anywhere soon..:hearts: :kiss:

Sam L
May 6th, 2002, 11:29 AM
Well if I was her I would've retired at 18 after RG99. Leave the tennis world pondering what else I could've achieved and ran away with my millions. MUHAHAHHA! Oh and of course I would've studied at University in a field I'm really interested in and lived a comfortable life! :)

But Martina? Who knows what she'll do, she likes tennis too much to just give up. I have this feeling she'll stick around for awhile.

Volcana
May 6th, 2002, 12:05 PM
deftman - In the initial post I pointed out that I figured there was less than a ten percent chance of this happening. Obviously I don't need to be convinced it's unlikely. If you don't like speculative threads, don't post in them. By now I'm sure you've figured out that objecting to them doesn't decrease their frequency.

As for "...Now you wouldnt like it if I created a thread "What is Venus suffers a huge injury and retired?" thread would you?

I wouldn't CARE. Look around, people post threads about Venus retiring all the time. It's trivial. People posting about Venus getting injured and HAVING to retire are less frequent than they once were, but like you, many people hope to see that. WHat can I say except, 'enjoy yourself'. You certainly won't find me wasting time posting to object to your thread. There's not enough time to post in the good threads as it is.

deftman
May 6th, 2002, 12:41 PM
Ok Then ;)
Enjoy you dreams ;) :p

Bella
May 6th, 2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by deftman

Enjoy you(r) dreams ;) :p

Imagine what the rest of her dreams are. DOMINATION. SUBJUGATION. OBLITERATION. HUMILIATION. Dream on.

Debbie Foy
May 6th, 2002, 01:04 PM
thread--puts salts in wounds of martia fans.....martia gots same chances of doing no 15 ats end of 2003 as all otha playas--even venus.....silly topics here

Volcana
May 6th, 2002, 01:07 PM
Debbie Foy - Silly topic, silly responses

Debbie Foy
May 6th, 2002, 01:09 PM
silly topics draw silly responses--ways of world for internet messages boads....

deftman
May 6th, 2002, 01:19 PM
Imagine what the rest of her dreams are. DOMINATION. SUBJUGATION. OBLITERATION. HUMILIATION. Dream on.


Yeah Humiliation maybe.But only at the hands of Venus ,Serena and few other select power players.
Expecting a healthy Hingis to be regularly dominated by 14 other players on the tour at the end of 2003 ,could qualify only as a dream.And a ffaaaaaaaaaaaar fetched one I may add.
So I just asked Volcano to enjoy her dreams ;)
Sweet Dreams Honey :kiss::kiss:

moby
May 6th, 2002, 02:34 PM
If Martina Hingis ends 2003 ranked #15 ....

dont expect to see venus in the top 10 either

moby
May 6th, 2002, 02:35 PM
;) :p

Ryan
May 6th, 2002, 03:28 PM
Hurley is 110% correct. If Martina decided to not play all of this year and next, she COULD fall to #15. Obviously Volcana created this for pure conversation, I doubt he/she wanted to 'put salt in marti fans' wounds'.


Testud, Dementieva, Mauresmo, and Hantuchova having a good year wouldn't affect Hingis at all. It would more likely bog down Dokic, Henin, and Serena(if she doesnt play enough). Your forgetting that Testud will soon retire, and has a despicable record against Martina. Mauresmo is hsowing how fluky she is, and her great run last year ddin't affect Martina what-so ever. Dementieva is happy being mediocre for now, but none of those players could threaten or keep hingis out of the top 5.

Hurley
May 6th, 2002, 08:48 PM
The point is that, yes, Mauresmo, Dementieva, Hantuchova have beaten Martina in the recent past, but can these players, with Testud and/or Shaughnessy, all have these kind of results in a manner consistent enough to ALL rise ahead of Martina in the rankings in order to push Martina out? The answer is an unequivocal "no," by a long way.

By Martina still making the final eight-one of all of her tournaments, she is consistently putting enough points on the board to offset the isolated instances where players ranked 10-16 are beating her. Add that to the fact that the other players ranked 1-9 are beating these players at a relatively equal rate as Martina is, and you create a mathematical scenario where Martina's displacement from the Top Ten in impossible, provided of course that she doesn't get hit by a truck or lose a limb to gangrene or contract the E. bola virus or however you spell it.

Or, of course, start losing first and second round all the time. And even if that were to happen, Martina has already picked up enough points where the chance of the scenario occurring has only moved from impossible to infinitesimal.

Can Martina finish the year ranked 7-10? Almost definitely not 10, possibly but not probably 7-9. Will she finish it #1? More likely than 7, but certainly a tall order.

My guess is that if Martina can win a major, she'll finish the year #1, but I'm not sure she will...I would guess that Martina will finish the year ranked 4 or 5.

Anyway, I understand that Volcana never SAID this would happen, but he or she (sorry) started this thread with the assumption that it could happen, and barring a severe injury or non-tennis-related incident, it certainly cannot, which makes me skeptical as to why the thread was started in the first place. I will, however, give anyone the benefit of the doubt and assume it was just to objectively discuss the situation.

So I am anxiously looking forward to Volcana starting a similar discussion about Venus Williams, who has also had a very weak year by her standards.

Hurley
May 6th, 2002, 08:50 PM
For argument's sake, to answer the question...if she finished one year out of the top 15 or so, I doubt she would retire, but she would probably take a lengthy sabbatical.

Two years in a row, though...she probably would retire.

Volcana
May 7th, 2002, 05:11 AM
Ryan14 - Technically speaking (please forgive my obtusenes if this was your point) "...If Martina decided to not play all of this year and next..." she would have no ranking points at all. I expect she'd be ranked a lot lower than #15 in such an unlikely instance.

Sidebar - If Martina doesn't play the rest of this year, she'll probably still finish in the top ten. Certainly no worse than #12.

jomar
May 7th, 2002, 05:32 AM
Volcana sounds like Miss Cleo.;):kiss: :rolleyes: :kiss:

lrg bllt
May 7th, 2002, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by easy
If Martina Hingis ends 2003 ranked #15 ....

dont expect to see venus in the top 10 either

hehe :D