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Wojtek
Jan 1st, 2006, 08:54 AM
Russia's OAO Gazprom cut off natural gas supplies to Ukraine after the country refused to pay more than four times 2005's rate for the fuel, deepening tensions between the two former Soviet republics.

State-run Gazprom, which supplies a quarter of Ukraine's gas and uses the country's pipelines to supply a quarter of western Europe's, began to shut off supplies to Ukraine at 10 a.m. local time today, Sergei Kupriyanov, a spokesman for the Moscow-based company, said on its NTV television network. ``The Ukrainian side is to blame for this. They rejected our offer.''

Ukraine has enough fuel stored to last four months, and both sides have said supplies to western Europe won't be affected.

Gazprom wants Ukraine to pay $230 per thousand cubic meters of gas, almost fivefold what it paid last year. Russian President Vladimir Putin, who campaigned against Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko a year ago in Ukraine's so called Orange Revolution, offered last night to delay the increase by three months if a contract was signed by midnight. Yushchenko refused, calling it ``economic pressure.''

``Putin hates Yushchenko and wants to break him down,'' said Sergei Markov, a political consultant who the Kremlin sent to Kiev in 2004 to help former Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych in his unsuccessful campaign against Yushchenko.

A price increase to $230 per thousand cubic meters would have opposite effects on Ukraine and Gazprom. Ukraine's economic growth in 2006, forecast at between 5.5 percent and 7.5 percent, would at least halve, Anatoliy Kinakh, head of the country's Security Council, said last week. Gazprom's 2006 sales would swelled by $4.5 billion, Troika Dialog, a Moscow-based brokerage, said.

Wojtek
Jan 1st, 2006, 08:56 AM
Belarus is paying $ 24 per thousand cubic meters just because in Belarus there's communist president who is licking Russians asses.

Russian and their politics really sucks. Maybe they think that USRR times will came back :rolleyes: Last year Ukraine became democratic country and i hope EU will help them. :fiery:

CooCooCachoo
Jan 1st, 2006, 09:10 AM
Intolerable policies :rolleyes:

Wojtek
Jan 1st, 2006, 09:17 AM
Ukraine has only gas for three months :unsure: :scared:

Pszczelny
Jan 1st, 2006, 09:45 AM
Last year Ukraine became democratic country and i hope EU will help them. :fiery:

I hope it too :rolleyes: :(

Munchen
Jan 1st, 2006, 10:13 AM
This is a rediculous offer by the Russian government. :rolleyes:

Hopefully the EU can offer some help. :kiss:

flyingmachine
Jan 1st, 2006, 10:28 AM
I think this is another reason why we should support more on alternative energies.

Wojtek
Jan 1st, 2006, 01:09 PM
This is a rediculous offer by the Russian government. :rolleyes:

Hopefully the EU can offer some help. :kiss:

Ukraine can have gas only from Russia :o :rolleyes: :tape: because there isn't other way to transport gas to Ukraine

ys
Jan 1st, 2006, 03:58 PM
It's OK.. There are market prices for gaz and demand to Ukraine to pay those market prices is only fair.. It should have been done long before..

Belarus example is not relevant. And it's , generally, nobody's business what Belarus pays for that. Germany pays more than $200. Germany and Ukraine both pay the same market price for oil. So will it be the same for gaz.

Wojtek
Jan 1st, 2006, 04:06 PM
It's OK.. There are market prices for gaz and demand to Ukraine to pay those market prices is only fair.. It should have been done long before..

Belarus example is not relevant. And it's , generally, nobody's business what Belarus pays for that. Germany pays more than $200. Germany and Ukraine both pay the same market price for oil. So will it be the same for gaz.

One big bullshits !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because Turkey, Georgia, Hungary and few more former soviet republic are paying less then 200.

Belarus is golden example of shit that Russia is making against Ukraine. If it's ok for you should go to doctor. :rolleyes:

adam_ads_n
Jan 1st, 2006, 04:33 PM
Unfortunately for Russia- they are not the only gas supplier in the world, and they will only lose some money. And what I should say: I really like russian people from wtaworld, but I hate your president- he is quite a freak! (But if you blame our president here- it won't matter- I also don't like him).

tennisjam
Jan 1st, 2006, 07:22 PM
that's politics people...nothing to be surprised about...

Pszczelny
Jan 1st, 2006, 07:52 PM
Unfortunately for Russia- they are not the only gas supplier in the world, and they will only lose some money. And what I should say: I really like russian people from wtaworld, but I hate your president- he is quite a freak! (---------------------------------------------------------------------)

that it is :)

*JR*
Jan 1st, 2006, 08:44 PM
Belarus is paying $ 24 per thousand cubic meters just because in Belarus there's communist president who is licking Russians asses.

Russian and their politics really sucks. Maybe they think that USRR times will came back :rolleyes: Last year Ukraine became democratic country and i hope EU will help them. :fiery:
Belarus has a President (Lukashenko) who's an open Hitler fan! :mad: BTW, the Ukranians are already siphoning gas out of the pipeline to Western Europe, which crosses their territory. (Putin should have kept the price the same, but gotten Vika as compensation. She's an ethnic Russian anyway). :hehehe:

hablo
Jan 1st, 2006, 10:35 PM
that sucks for Ukraine, to be bullied like that!!!! I hope some other country can do business with you!!!

vogus
Jan 1st, 2006, 10:46 PM
Belarus example is not relevant. And it's , generally, nobody's business what Belarus pays for that. Germany pays more than $200. Germany and Ukraine both pay the same market price for oil. So will it be the same for gaz.


It's relevant to ask what Belarus pays, if only because the dirty back-door dealing between Lukashenko and Putin on energy and other subsidies is one of the reasons Belarus is such a fucked-up country.

Putin has no leverage over Yuschenko because Ukraine controls the gas pipelines to Europe. Of course Ukraine will have to pay a lot more than 50$, but making a big scene won't help Putin catch up with Yuschenko on the international stage.

vogus
Jan 1st, 2006, 10:49 PM
(Putin should have kept the price the same, but gotten Vika as compensation. She's an ethnic Russian anyway). :hehehe:


how do you know Kutuzova is "ethnic Russian"? :confused:

ys
Jan 2nd, 2006, 03:12 AM
It's relevant to ask what Belarus pays, if only because the dirty back-door dealing between Lukashenko and Putin on energy and other subsidies is one of the reasons Belarus is such a fucked-up country.

Sure, just like dirty backdoor dealing between Yuschenko and Turkmen-bashi ..

Belarus is a part of future unified state of Russia and Belarus, close ally.. No wonder they are being helped.

Putin has no leverage over Yuschenko because Ukraine controls the gas pipelines to Europe.


Right now, true.. But with Russian-German Baltic project coming along and with Schroeder being now a Gazprom executive, surely there will be alternatives to those pipe.. Mind you, Ukraine gets only 1/3 of its gas from Russia, another 1/3 is coming form Turkmenia, and those pipelines from Turkmenia are controlled .. by Russia.. :lol:

Of course Ukraine will have to pay a lot more than 50$, but making a big scene won't help Putin catch up with Yuschenko on the international stage.

:rolls: Putin is a part of G8. Yuschenko is .. a very secondary leader..

The times of USSR and socialist brotherhood are gone, and these days Russia will act in its own economic and political interests and nothing else and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Ukraine will have to pay a competitive price for Russian gas or she will have to find and buy it cheaper from other source.

gsm
Jan 2nd, 2006, 05:32 AM
But with Russian-German Baltic project coming along and with Schroeder being now a Gazprom executive
IMO the whole putin schroeder relationship reaks very badly of cronyism.

what do other people think?

vogus
Jan 2nd, 2006, 06:20 AM
:rolls: Putin is a part of G8. Yuschenko is .. a very secondary leader..




last year Putin paid $900 million (compared to only about $40 million spent by the CIA) to try to prevent Yuschenko winning the election. :lol: Yuschenko today is the most legitimate and internationally respected leader of all former Soviet countries, there's no doubt about it, Putin must settle for second in that category.

ys
Jan 2nd, 2006, 07:20 AM
Yuschenko today is the most legitimate and internationally respected leader of all former Soviet countries

It's all just meaningless words. Who cares..

Lord Nelson
Jan 2nd, 2006, 12:55 PM
Sure, just like dirty backdoor dealing between Yuschenko and Turkmen-bashi ..

Belarus is a part of future unified state of Russia and Belarus, close ally.. No wonder they are being helped.



Right now, true.. But with Russian-German Baltic project coming along and with Schroeder being now a Gazprom executive, surely there will be alternatives to those pipe.. Mind you, Ukraine gets only 1/3 of its gas from Russia, another 1/3 is coming form Turkmenia, and those pipelines from Turkmenia are controlled .. by Russia.. :lol:

:rolls: Putin is a part of G8. Yuschenko is .. a very secondary leader..

The times of USSR and socialist brotherhood are gone, and these days Russia will act in its own economic and political interests and nothing else and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Ukraine will have to pay a competitive price for Russian gas or she will have to find and buy it cheaper from other source.
Moldova has a better chance of unifying with Romania than Belarus unifying with Russia. The Belarus is pretending wanting to merge with Russia to have good relations and preferrential deal with Russia. But that's it, Belarus will not become part of Russia. On the other hand once Romania joins EU, Moldova which is the poorest nation in Europe would want to merge with Romania as their population is mainly ethnic Romanians.

With Russia, I'm glad to see the nation doing well economically. I think that the nation should be a little authoritarian. It is funny to see YS think the samething too. I'm conservative it is ok for me to think this but YS? I thought that she was so liberal, Probably yes but when matters concern Russia all of a sudden she takes a 180 degree turn. YS my girl try and be more consistent with your views.

©@®eLess
Jan 2nd, 2006, 02:17 PM
well now Hungary who gets gas from Ukraine is sending less gas to Serbia, seems some factories and companies will be in problem!

*JR*
Jan 2nd, 2006, 03:13 PM
how do you know Kutuzova is "ethnic Russian"? :confused:
Besides the "ova", not in ethnic UKR names, she's publicly identified herself as such, I believe. She might only remain technically Ukranian as a marketing angle (being their best player, not "one among many" top Russians, including prospective stars). Maybe RUS should trade Masha II to UKR for her. ;)

vutt
Jan 2nd, 2006, 04:18 PM
Right now, true.. But with Russian-German Baltic project coming along and with Schroeder being now a Gazprom executive, surely there will be alternatives to those pipe..

Don't be so sure about it. It might be even possible that Estonia and Finland will close soon so called neutral zone gap between see borders so noone can build anything there widthout permission. There are very strong ecological concerns involved.

Plus all Schröder thing sounds like corruption to me - used his political power for his later personal benefit...

vogus
Jan 2nd, 2006, 06:45 PM
Besides the "ova", not in ethnic UKR names, she's publicly identified herself as such, I believe. She might only remain technically Ukranian as a marketing angle (being their best player, not "one among many" top Russians, including prospective stars). Maybe RUS should trade Masha II to UKR for her. ;)


Ethnic Ukrainians, especially those in the eastern half of the country, sometimes DO, in fact, have names ending in the "ova" suffix. :)

If you know that Vika actually said she's of direct Russian heritage, then i take your word for it, but i haven't read anything like that. In any case, with so many Russians now on the tour, having UKR next to one's name is probably a marketing advantage.

ys
Jan 4th, 2006, 03:32 PM
Russia achieved the objective. Ukraine will pay $230 for Russian gas. So much ado about nothing..

*JR*
Jan 4th, 2006, 03:56 PM
Ethnic Ukrainians, especially those in the eastern half of the country, sometimes DO, in fact, have names ending in the "ova" suffix. :)

Those are the ethnic Russians, who make up a large minority of the UKR population, @ least on their fathers' sides. Study history, and you'll know that Stalin deliberately relocated Russians into other republics of the USSR, to make it (he thought) more indivisible. Even the 3 Baltic states have had this controversy about who "belongs" in them.