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Rollo
May 5th, 2002, 06:10 PM
Ok-I expect to get flamed for the thread title-but the question must be asked.

It seems to me that a year with lots of play and lots of various injuries and defaults demands some R-E-S-T.

With Jelena though(or Damir) she just rolls right on after defaulting to Kim. Contrast this to Hingis-who wisely withdrew from Berlin.

I apologize to Jelena fans if I offended, but you won't be half as upset or angry if she completely wrecks her body, which is a real
possibility if she keeps this up. There are too many aspects of this that remind me of a potential great from the 1980's that crashed after nonstop play despite injuries. Her name was Andrea Jaeger, another victim of the tours dominating dads brigade.


History repeats itself all too often in tennis. Wakeup Dumb-chic, before it's too late.
:mad:

irma
May 5th, 2002, 06:15 PM
I don't understand it either why she ruins herself :confused:

TheBoiledEgg
May 5th, 2002, 06:20 PM
Damir must wanna who the price of salmon in every event ;)

I was suprised she didn't play during the Fed Cup week somewhere.

Jay
May 5th, 2002, 06:21 PM
no offence from me

the title could have been better but they are some moot points in your arguement.

However, everyone can speculate what they want and try to decide what's best for a player.

but

at the end of the day there's only one person who can truely judge how fit and good they feel before they step on court and that is the player herself.

besides, Jelena hasn't played that many matches this year, she was rested for the opening 2 months of this season.

Lleyki
May 5th, 2002, 06:21 PM
I also think she should rest

Rollo
May 5th, 2002, 06:59 PM
ALL of this generations young hot shots have overplayed IMO(except the Williams sisters). All have suffered injuries to some extent. But the ones who last usually have the common sense to learn from their errors. Kim Clijsters is a good example. She actually got off the merry go round and rested.


You were joking when you said Jelena hasn't overplayed so far this year Jay, right?:rolleyes: I looked at your site (good site BTW) to see how much she's played this year.

9 events so far. Hardly a week off since her "rest". She's defaulted an alarming 3 matches, or 30% of events entered this year. Toss in awful losses at Indian Wells and Miami where she was obviously not herself and SOMETHING IS WRONG.

The "every player knows best for herself" routine breaks down when you throw in her age(young) and look at who's behind her(Damir). Maybe she DOES want to stop, or isn't sure. She'll listen to her father in that situation. I wonder what he's advising. My hunch is he's telling her to play through it.

What's the hurry? She's not in any danger of dropping off the computer, unless she gets seriously hurt, that is. If she continues at this pace, it won't of IF she's badly hurt, it'll be when.

wongqks
May 5th, 2002, 07:06 PM
I cannot believe she has commited herself berlin Rome and Strasbourgh, it just doesn't seem logical to me, I mean why can't she rest herself this week and then go and defend her Rome title and also Strasbourgh if she lose early in Rome?

I think she overplayed the schedule, maybe she thought missing the Aussie season and she need to catch up quick, but then there is no reason for it, coz she is a solid top 10 and missing a tournament here or there won't drop her status as a top tenner

CC
May 5th, 2002, 07:15 PM
I don't understand this decision at all.:confused:

Jay
May 5th, 2002, 07:16 PM
erm

Damir isn't advising anything. He's not in Europe, won't be until the end of this month so he's in no position to make a judgement as to how fit Jelena is.

Jelena is calling the shots.

GoDominiqu
May 5th, 2002, 07:17 PM
I agree.

Also they way Jelena is playing (right now): it's VERY demanding for the body. She puts everything in every shot. And you can't do that week in, week out.

Maybe she will withdraw.

angele87
May 5th, 2002, 07:21 PM
Jelena should rest because if she continues playing they way she's playing now she's going to end up with career ending injury which would really be unforetunate

Rollo
May 5th, 2002, 07:25 PM
He doesn't have to be physically there to have an influence over her.

And if she sticks to playing Berlin, Rome, Strasbourg, AND the French, she's nuts. That's a crazy schedule for a healthy player, let alone Jelena. I wanted to cry when I read Wongqks post.

Dado
May 5th, 2002, 07:32 PM
I'm worry for Jelena. I think she's so good, but she isn't lucky...

jd4eva
May 5th, 2002, 07:59 PM
I agree with a lot of your post Rollo, but there's a few things that have to be cleared up:

Jelena's injuries have been caused by that extended break, where she rested for a while. The trainers have told her that it was that extended break that has caused all these injuries. In order to get herself fit, she needs to play through them and get match fit, because if she takes a break and comes back, chances are she's going to get injured again.

Jakeev
May 5th, 2002, 08:10 PM
Yep I agree with you Rollo. It does not take a rocket scientist to tell you that if you had to default in match, AGAIN, for the same kind of injury that you should not continue to play until a doctor at least advises you of what the problem is.

Alex Stevenson learned that lesson last year. Jelena should take notes.

XMan
May 5th, 2002, 08:17 PM
Jelena should take Kim as an example. she should rest even if she has the ability to play and a win a match, as long as you are not able to put up a fight untill the end of the week then you will never be able to win the tournament and it will only get worse.

disposablehero
May 5th, 2002, 09:20 PM
I have to wonder if this is about money. Coming from a relatively poor background and a demanding father, I have to wonder if there isn't an irrational fear that the prize money and endorsements will dry up tomorrow. If this girl just calms down a bit and plans a smart career, she will make at least $5 million in prize money alone over the next decade.

TheBoiledEgg
May 5th, 2002, 09:25 PM
$5 in next decade would be a total failure for someone in top 10.

on average ATP guys will make that with one good season.

jd4eva
May 5th, 2002, 09:29 PM
$5 TBE? ;)

I think Jelena makes that and more in 1 match ;)

Jelena earned over $1 million last year, so if she gets herself together, we could see her double, or triple thet $5 million disposable specified in 10 years. :)

Jelena has receovered from her injuries, but got a new one against Henin. How could she see that coming? She felt 100% entering Hamburg and played that way in her first 3 matches, pulling her hamstring against Henin. She couldn't predict that she would get a new injury.

TheBoiledEgg
May 5th, 2002, 09:30 PM
oopps i meant $5M :angel: :angel:

missed the M out

disposablehero
May 5th, 2002, 09:32 PM
I tend to estimate conservative. She probably made something like $800,000 last year. With modest increases in prize money, she can expect $10 million. But it is not certain. That's why I said at least 5.

babywhale
May 5th, 2002, 09:52 PM
Jelena's fit. I tend to think it's better in the long-run to play through minor injuries. Steffi played through her injuries throughout 1993-1997, then took a long break, and always seemed more injury-prone afterwards.

Look at Arantxa and Conchi. They've had long careers, tending to play through small injuries rather than sit out for a month or two like Seles for instance. Seles is one of the most injury prone players, and I think it's because she's so stop-start-stop-start.....

I'm surprised she's playing Strasbourg though, as it is a bit close to Roland Garros. But if she wan't playing a tournament, she'd only be practising and training, and some players do so much of that that they actually injure/weaken themselves.

Let's just see what happens.

Good luck Jelena.

wongqks
May 5th, 2002, 10:06 PM
Well, I mean I am really upset that jelena default 3 important matches this year already Paris against venus. Amelia against Justine and now hamburg against Kim. I just hope that she will not get burned out or get a further injury with that.

But about estimates in earning, I think you guys forgot about endorsement and other stuff. Ace is releasing rich list this coming month, maybe we will get a better estimate then

Sash1
May 5th, 2002, 10:10 PM
Jelena earned more than $ 800 000 last year. Here is a sentence from Jelena's '01 year review (wtatour site):

Won her first singles and doubles titles, ranked in the world's Top 10 for the first time, earned more than $1 million and won more than 50 matches....

To be very precise it was $1,169,716 ;)

Jay
May 5th, 2002, 10:56 PM
That 'precise' figure is nowhere near the mark.

it also assumes that all monies have been paid to her.

watch this space

Kart
May 5th, 2002, 11:00 PM
I think that Jelena is playing too much because she skipped the Oz open and seems to want to compensate for some bizarre reason by injuring herself so badly that she won't be able to play it next year either.

Calm down please Jelena - that win over Monica earlier in the year and the win over Justine are a waste of time if you can't play the next match :mad: .

TheBoiledEgg
May 5th, 2002, 11:07 PM
I heard Jelena say she lost early in RG last yr cos she DIDN'T have enough match play :eek:

So i guess she will play every week to make sure she does, thats total madness.

the only way to stop her would be to refuse her a VISA.

does she still have her AUS passport, if she does then that would make it alot easier go obtain VISAS.

Jay
May 5th, 2002, 11:50 PM
erm Boiled Egg

Jelena doesn't need a visa

She can waltz through customs and immigration of any country

see http://jellyworld.freewebspace.com/news/news34.htm

CB
May 6th, 2002, 01:47 AM
She will only skip a week of play when she suffers a real accident/injury that she can not move. Then, she'll care for her body. Otherwise, she will be completely destroyed on her middle 20s.

Even Anna Kournikova skipped almost the whole year of 2001 due to her injury. She is often the spotlight of many tournaments, earns a lot of bonus money for appearing and she chose instead of all this money her life, body and career.

Wake up Jelena, you'll be the biggest victim.

Fingon
May 6th, 2002, 02:04 AM
Rollo, I made a topic on this before.

Obviously, Jelena has to stop, and now, the consequences of an idiotic schedule are been showed and, after an injury she keeps playing the next week, and she plays singles and double, it's just insane.

ILUVJELENA, if her trainiers told her that, she should fire them right away for incompetency.

You don't get in physical shape by playing, that's bullshit, she needs to train outside the court to get fit, but I don't think that's the problem, Jelena is obviously very fit and works very hard. The problem is that she is forcing her body too much.

I don't know if it's Jelena or Damir, I would tend to thing the latter but it's mostly because of my general opinion on him, it might not be the case.

I can to some point understand Jelena, she is young, not very experienced. You rollo mentioned Martina, well, although Martina is not much older than Jelena, in terms of time in the tour she is like Jelena's grandmother, and Martina learned it the hard way, her scheduling used to be idiotic until last year.

Players older and more experienced than Jelena scheduled stupidly, Monica and Anna being the most notorious examples.

I guess common sense is the less common of senses among tennis players.

Rollo
May 6th, 2002, 04:28 AM
I recall your earlier thread Fingon:) You are SO right about others overdoing it too.


I know I'm "beating a dead horse"(to use the title of another thread). I guess the whole thing just makes me upset.
This girl has TALENT-and it's being risked. When I saw her name on the Berlin drawsheet my jaw dropped. When I read Wongqks post my heart stopped.

Best of luck to her ILUV and other fans.

Babywhale-I think ASV and Conchita might have won more(more slams) had they played less. And even when they entered a lot, they never had 30 events on the computer.

All I can say about comparing Jelena to Graf or Seles is this-she should be so lucky if at the end of her career she has their records. The injuries you are talking about came LATER in their careers, not when they were 20. Look at their records-Steffi rarely entered even 20 events a year.

Fingon
May 6th, 2002, 05:51 AM
Rollo, it's only natural to beat the dead horse when something is so bizarre like Jelena's schedule :)

Steffi and Monica, in their golden years used to play something like 12, 13 tournaments a year, it's true that the ranking system was different then but, it's been showed that a top player must not play too much.

Look at Venus, she plays 15 events a year and she is fresh, then she wins, but even her, when she played three tournaments in a row was burned out in the third.

IMO, a top 5 players should play about 15-16 tournaments, a top 6-10 around 18-19, no more and never play more than two weeks in a row, exception Australian Open where there isn't any other chance to play warm up tournaments.

For example, for top players big NO NO

1) Toray Pan Pacific, either change the date or screw it, it's absurd to have a tier 1 right after a Grand Slam.

2) Indian Wells - Key Biscayne, a little mitigated because they are not really two weeks and normally top players play late in the second week, but if a player plays both she MUST NOT play Scottsdale.

3) Madrid and Strasbourgh, except that the player had horrible results in the previous weeks and needs matches.

4) New Haven

5) the 3 California tournaments, or play San Diego LA Canadia Open.

Some times I think the WTA schedule is made but a council of idiots that drunk 3 bottles of whisky each and smoke a deffective herb.

jd4eva
May 6th, 2002, 06:39 AM
Fingon - I doubt Jelena has the authority to fire a WTATour Trainer ;).

salima
May 6th, 2002, 07:01 AM
Whenshe took some weeks off last winter, she didn´t train or even exercise at all. To make a sudden stop in your training is another thing you must avoid , especially if you have muscular or tendon problems. She should: Be senseable, read a book about it, make long time plans.

Jeff
May 6th, 2002, 08:44 AM
I do wonder about Jelena. After seeing her listed in the German Open draw, I couldn't help but wonder if it was the right thing to do. The last thing I want to wake up and read is "Jelena sidelined for a year" or just something devistating.

However, it is Jelena's decision. Obviously she feels that playing next week is the right thing to do. At this point I think she is very determined. She wants to improve, move up the rankings. I guess she thinks that there is no need to withdraw and rest. Maybe her goal is to continue to improve her ranking for the French Open, then rest after that. Who knows!

Basically, what me and the rest of her fans think aren't really important. Obvioiusly it's a good thing that we care, but in the end it is only her and her parents' decision what she does and what is right/wrong for her. I just hope she stays healthy. Good luck next week, Jelena ;)

tennischick
May 6th, 2002, 11:59 AM
you really have to wonder who is advising this girl. i'd prefer to believe that she isn't dumb but is being given bad advice that she somehow seems compelled to follow. she played more tournies than anyone last year and seems to be setting up the same schedule again this year. she is beginning to remind me of Kafelnikov. and Salima if you're right that she didn't train or exercise at all during her break, then she needs to fire all of her trainers/advisers. that is just downright dumb.

Sam L
May 6th, 2002, 12:55 PM
Babywhale that pic of Jelena in your avatar is horrific! :eek: Surely you can find a better picture of her!

As for the discussion in this thread, I don't have much to contribute except, obviously she needs to look at herself, what she's capable of and at the same time take care of her body. If she wants to be a force in tennis for the next 10 years or so.

Brian Stewart
May 6th, 2002, 04:38 PM
Maybe she's trying to break Billie Jean's record of 210 matches played in one season. (Note to Jelena: virtually every tourney was on grass or clay, and BJ also holds the career record for most knee surgeries.)

Aloysius
May 6th, 2002, 05:03 PM
Jelena will only have one week off after Roland Garros (assuming she gets to the second week of RG) and then resume play on grass at Eastbourne, followed by The Championships. That is one whacked schedule. I'm tired just from reading about her commitments for the next couple of months. How must she feel? I don't know but I hope she is feeling incredibly fit.

evil-lynne
May 6th, 2002, 05:11 PM
i thnk she should rest. just play rome and then paris

Jay
May 6th, 2002, 05:26 PM
Jelena's schedule has always been confirmed on a "month to month " basis.

For example, I'd be amazed if she plays Strausburg. Just because she's in the list of commitments doesn't mean she'll play.

Evonne Goolagong
May 6th, 2002, 07:53 PM
I agree with Rollo, Dokic plays a couple of events and then retires because of her hamstring, its always the same injury. Perhaps she is just afraid of losing her ranking, whatever the reason ... she needs to rest and allow it to heal completely.

Jay
May 6th, 2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Evonne Goolagong
I agree with Rollo, Dokic plays a couple of events and then retires because of her hamstring, its always the same injury. Perhaps she is just afraid of losing her ranking, whatever the reason ... she needs to rest and allow it to heal completely.

grrr

it's not the same injury !

I've already explained this in http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20769

now if anyone has a better source then that ..............

Rollo
May 6th, 2002, 09:11 PM
Jay, while I'm sure you are right about it not being the same EXACT injury, Evonne's point was an injury needs rest. Injured players often change strokes to compensate and end up injurying
a DIFFERENT part of the body.

Comparisons with Sanchez-Vicario don't work for Jelena. The most ASV ever entered in a year was 24. That's a far cry from 30.
Conchita's record for 1 year is 23.

Evonne Goolagong
May 6th, 2002, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Jay


grrr

it's not the same injury !

I've already explained this in http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20769

now if anyone has a better source then that ..............

What I have copied below comes directly from the Sanex WTA site,

JELENA DOKIC 2002 IN DETAIL

* February - Ranked No. 7, seeded second and following a first-round bye, upset by Anne Kremer 7-5, 6-2 at Tokyo [Pan Pacific] in her 2002 debut; reached the semifinals in doubles with partner Iroda Tulyaganova...Ranked No. 9, earned spot in Paris Indoors final by defeating former No. 1-ranked Monica Seles 6-3, 3-6, 6-4, but conceded title to V. Williams by walkover due to a right wrist injury suffered in SF; reached doubles SF at Paris with Mag. Maleeva, falling to eventual tournament champs Dechy/Tu...Withdrew from Memphis due to a right hamstring injury...Ranked No. 6, seeded fourth and following a 1r bye, retired in 2r Antwerp match, 4-6, 6-4, 1-1 against No. 42-ranked Patty Schnyder, with a right abductor (thigh) strain...Withdrew from Scottsdale due to continued recovery from thigh injury.

Hamstring, thigh, both are in the same vicinity so it is similiar. I mean't no disrespect to you or Jelena, but the truth is she is injury prone and is not alllowing her body adequate time to heal from said injuries.

Take care,
Evonne :D

Jay
May 6th, 2002, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Evonne Goolagong


What I have copied below comes directly from the Sanex WTA site,

JELENA DOKIC 2002 IN DETAIL

* February - Ranked No. 7, seeded second and following a first-round bye, upset by Anne Kremer 7-5, 6-2 at Tokyo [Pan Pacific] in her 2002 debut; reached the semifinals in doubles with partner Iroda Tulyaganova...Ranked No. 9, earned spot in Paris Indoors final by defeating former No. 1-ranked Monica Seles 6-3, 3-6, 6-4, but conceded title to V. Williams by walkover due to a right wrist injury suffered in SF; reached doubles SF at Paris with Mag. Maleeva, falling to eventual tournament champs Dechy/Tu...Withdrew from Memphis due to a right hamstring injury...Ranked No. 6, seeded fourth and following a 1r bye, retired in 2r Antwerp match, 4-6, 6-4, 1-1 against No. 42-ranked Patty Schnyder, with a right abductor (thigh) strain...Withdrew from Scottsdale due to continued recovery from thigh injury.

Hamstring, thigh, both are in the same vicinity so it is similiar. I mean't no disrespect to you or Jelena, but the truth is she is injury prone and is not alllowing her body adequate time to heal from said injuries.

Take care,
Evonne :D

I know you meant no disrespect Evonne and no offense was taken. I just did the grrr cos these last few days I've had to repeat myself a lot.

I won't comment on if Jelena needs to play less/take more time off ect because I don't feel qualified to express such an opinion. I think only the player can judge whether it's right for him/her to play.

And don't always treat what Sanexwta publish as being gospel. They have a lot of player information to deal with (whereas Jelena Online just concentrates on one :) ) and they're bound to make a small mistake here and there.

For example in that item that you just pasted they are wrong about Jelena suffering from a wrist injury. It was a erm....thigh injury :) that caused her to miss the final.
see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/tennis/newsid_1812000/1812521.stm

The withdrawal from Memphis due to hamstring is also wrong but I can't be arsed to look that up on the BBC website. Can't remember what it was now but it certainly wasn't hamstring.

The right abductor against Schnyder is spot on though. Also I'm not a doctor but I'm fairly sure that a thigh abductor is a totally unrelated injury to a common hamstring pull.

Also, one of Jelena's 'injuries' wasn't really an injury, that being the withdrawel against Henin at Amelia Island. That was a stomach bug she picked up which was common in Florida at the time. So not counting the 'bug injury', up to the Hamburg withdrawal Jelena had played something like 16 or 17 (including doubles) straight matches injury free including 2 titles (Sarasota singles and doubles)

So she had every right to be confident of going into Hamburg confident that her injury problems were behind her.

A hamstring pull is one of the most common injuries that an athelete can suffer and it can happen to anyone at anytime.

you take care too :kiss: :)

Bella
May 7th, 2002, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by Sam L
Babywhale that pic of Jelena in your avatar is horrific! :eek: Surely you can find a better picture of her!


That's funny, Sam L.

I've always wondered if she played a lot to get away from her father. Her ranking, though, did come from playing a lot of tournaments. I agree that she may be driven to protect it.

Does she have another coach other than her father?

jd4eva
May 7th, 2002, 06:19 AM
Jelena began the season with a wrist injury. She got a right thigh abductor strain in Paris, which she had till Indian Wells. There she got a left thigh strain, which was apparent there and in Miami. She was fit for Sarasota and got a stomach virus before playing Gagliardi in Amelia Island, it took her a week to recover and being able to hold down any foods and fluids. She was then fit, but pulled her hamstring against Justine.

Also, currently, Jelena will play Berlin, Rome, Strasbourg, Roland Garros, then she takes a week off. Then Eastbourne and Wimbledon and then she will take a 3 week rest.

babywhale
May 7th, 2002, 10:19 AM
glad you like the avatar guys. It just oozes with intensity.

Go Jelena - steal those points!:fiery:

GoDominique
Aug 17th, 2002, 06:47 PM
This thread deserves a little bump, I think.

BTW, where's babywhale ?

BritneySpearsIsHot
Aug 17th, 2002, 07:06 PM
Dumb Chick is harsh :(

Jelena is immensely fit.

duki
Aug 17th, 2002, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by TheBoiledEgg
Damir must wanna who the price of salmon in every event ;)

I was suprised she didn't play during the Fed Cup week somewhere.

What's your problem TBE? If you are not a Dokic fan, it's fine - but don't write this bullshit! I think Jelena is old enough to know how many tournaments she is able to play and she really doesn't need your help!

Becool
Aug 17th, 2002, 09:10 PM
LOL TBE!

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 17th, 2002, 09:15 PM
:rolleyes:@Duki

that was written 3 months ago and it was a light hearted joke

duki
Aug 17th, 2002, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by TheBoiledEgg
:rolleyes:@Duki

that was written 3 months ago and it was a light hearted joke

it doesn't matter when you're written this, the fact is that I read in many Jelena threads your so-called light hearted jokes. I didn't expect that from a modorator.

thanx for the rolleyes!

way
Aug 17th, 2002, 09:39 PM
She doesn't look like one, that's for sure!
:)

BritneySpearsIsHot
Aug 17th, 2002, 10:00 PM
I didn't think her intelligence was in question, i don't know her IQ and quite frankly don't care.

It's Jelena's career, she's fit and doesn't tire easily and as soon as an injury comes along it's cos she plays too much, when in fact it could be nothing to do with that