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SelesFan70
Dec 28th, 2005, 05:17 PM
Canada blames U.S. for gun violence
Toronto shooting is latest death in a record year

Tuesday, December 27, 2005; Posted: 9:54 p.m. EST (02:54 GMT)

TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian officials, seeking to make sense of another fatal shooting in what has been a record year for gun-related deaths, said Tuesday that along with a host of social ills, part of the problem stemmed from what they said was the United States exporting its violence.

Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin and Toronto Mayor David Miller warned that Canada could become like the United States after gunfire erupted Monday on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a 15-year-old girl and wounding six bystanders -- the latest victims in a record surge in gun violence in Toronto.

The shooting stemmed from a dispute among a group of 10 to 15 youth, and the victim was a teenager out with a parent near a popular shopping mall, police said Tuesday.

"I think it's a day that Toronto has finally lost its innocence," Det. Sgt. Savas Kyriacou said. "It was a tragic loss and tragic day."

While many Canadians take pride in Canadian cities being less violent than their American counterparts, Toronto has seen 78 murders this year, including a record 52 gun-related deaths -- almost twice as many as last year.

"What happened yesterday was appalling. You just don't expect it in a Canadian city," the mayor said.

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.

"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.

Miller said that while almost every other crime in Toronto is down, the supply of guns has increased and half of them come from the United States.

Miller said the availability of stolen Canadian guns is another problem, and that poverty in certain Toronto neighborhoods is a root cause.

"There are neighborhoods in Toronto where young people face barriers of poverty, discrimination and don't have real hope and opportunity. The kind of programs that we once took for granted in Canada that would reach out to young people have systematically disappeared over the past decade and I think that gun violence is a symptom of a much bigger problem," Miller said.

The escalating violence prompted the prime minister to announce earlier this month that if re-elected on January 23, his government would ban handguns. With severe restrictions already in place against handgun ownership, many criticized the announcement as politics.

Martin, who says up to half of the gun crimes in Canada involve weapons brought in illegally from the United States, raised the smuggling problem when he met with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in October.

Martin offered his condolences in a statement Tuesday, saying he was horrified by the shootings.

"What we saw yesterday is a stark reminder of the challenge that governments, police forces and communities face to ensure that Canadian cities do not descend into the kind of rampant gun violence we have seen elsewhere," Martin said.

John Thompson, a security analyst with the Toronto-based Mackenzie Institute, says the number of guns smuggled from the United States is a problem, but that Canada has a gang problem -- not a gun problem -- and that Canada should stop pointing the finger at the United States.

"It's a cop out. It's an easy way of looking at one symptom rather than addressing a whole disease," Thompson said.

Two suspects were arrested and at least one firearm was seized soon after the shootings Monday. Kyriacou said it was an illegal handgun.

Three females and four males were injured, including one male who is in critical condition. Police believe they were bystanders.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/index.html

Shouldn't they blame the people DOING the violence? :help: God I can't wait until Martin is dumped out of office! :rolleyes:

tennislover
Dec 28th, 2005, 05:29 PM
well, according to michael moore, Canada was a sort of paradise on earth so....

SelesFan70
Dec 28th, 2005, 05:30 PM
well, according to michael moore, Canada was a sort of paradise on earth so....

:haha: Talk about living in a bubble...

tennislover
Dec 28th, 2005, 06:00 PM
:haha: Talk about living in a bubble...

:drool:

Barrie_Dude
Dec 28th, 2005, 06:13 PM
It is the easy thing to do politically!

Randy H
Dec 28th, 2005, 07:28 PM
Just because the guns are getting smuggled across the border from the US does not make it their fault. It is a border that is controlled also by Canadians, and obviously we need to do a better job of making sure fewer guns are getting through. We have to take responsibility for this and recognize that it is a Canadian problem, and a problem that needs to be very seriously addressed. I've been in the area where the shooting happened many many times over the last several years, and it's a scary thought because I don't think that we are used to thinking that these kind of incidents can happen on our streets. It is becoming more of a reality though and I hope that we can stop this trend from growing. However, we can't do that though by pointing fingers in other directions, so I hope that people in our country will step up to the plate and make their own stance to toughen up.

Geisha
Dec 28th, 2005, 08:30 PM
Yeah, and Justin Timberlake is to blame for my curly hair.

That's pretty sad. As a fellow Canadian, we need to stop with the French PMs.

*JR*
Dec 28th, 2005, 08:33 PM
Fingon and Becca probably organized rival gangs to whack eachother. "Toronto's not big enough for the both of them". :o

Crazy Canuck
Dec 28th, 2005, 08:39 PM
"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

This is roughly as awesome as when American politicians blame Canada for terrorism. Wins!

Crazy Canuck
Dec 28th, 2005, 08:40 PM
Fingon and Becca probably organized rival gangs to whack eachother. "Toronto's not big enough for the both of them". :o
Why defeat an enemy when you can make use of them? Despite our differences, Fingon is clearly useful. Therefore we work together to off all the idiots. In which case, I assure you that we had nothing to do with the recent incident, which was very sad indeed.

Wiggly
Dec 28th, 2005, 09:07 PM
It's because of all the gangs streets who came with hip hop and like 50 cent :rolleyes:

Wiggly
Dec 28th, 2005, 09:08 PM
well, according to michael moore, Canada was a sort of paradise on earth so....

Canadan had somethings like 110 peoples shot and USA... 11, 000 :rolleyes:

Crazy Canuck
Dec 28th, 2005, 09:09 PM
It's because of all the gangs streets who came with hip hop and like 50 cent :rolleyes:
Rock on, let's blame 50 cent!

KoOlMaNsEaN
Dec 28th, 2005, 09:10 PM
Why is it with this parliament i feel the need to apoligize after every sentence they say :rolleyes:

Halardfan
Dec 28th, 2005, 09:12 PM
But the reverse is true x10 for right wing American outlets of nonsense like Fox News...

O'Reilly and the guys have this cycle of countries/continents who they blame for well pretty much everything, it goes something like...

Blame France, Mexico, Canada, Europe, Canada, Europe, France, Mexico, France, France again, Europe, Canada, France.

They have them on a loop.

hablo
Dec 28th, 2005, 09:19 PM
This is roughly as awesome as when American politicians blame Canada for terrorism. Wins!
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Crazy Canuck again. :bowdown:

Solitaire
Dec 29th, 2005, 03:20 AM
It always seems it's someone else's fault. It's not the kidís fault for shooting that girl its America, that's just plain stupid. First and foremost thereís no one else to blame but him. Now I'm sure there are events in his life that has lead him up to this whatever they may be. Even if it were a gun smuggled in from America it was still bought and used by Canadian hands.

Crazy Canuck
Dec 29th, 2005, 03:21 AM
It always seems it's someone else's fault. It's not the kidís fault for shooting that girl its America, that's just plain stupid. First and foremost thereís no one else to blame but him. Now I'm sure there are events in his life that has lead him up to this whatever they may be. Even if it were a gun smuggled in from America it was still bought and used by Canadian hands.
It's typical of politicians to shift the blame, especially when it seems they can't solve the problem. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Kunal
Dec 29th, 2005, 03:37 AM
I used to live in downtown toronto till august 05 and used to be on yonge st everyday..... the foot locker store in front of which the shooting took place, was a weekly ritual for me to check out the latest skids...

It had also happened in july or august during the Carribana festival. Its weird because when you are there amongst thousands of people...you feel so safe.....but all it takes for that to vanish is a click of a gun.

Black Mamba.
Dec 29th, 2005, 03:54 AM
It always seems it's someone else's fault. It's not the kidís fault for shooting that girl its America, that's just plain stupid. First and foremost thereís no one else to blame but him. Now I'm sure there are events in his life that has lead him up to this whatever they may be. Even if it were a gun smuggled in from America it was still bought and used by Canadian hands.


Real talk!

nbaker53
Dec 29th, 2005, 04:21 AM
I believe it :shrug:

tennisbum79
Dec 29th, 2005, 05:13 AM
But the reverse is true x10 for right wing American outlets of nonsense like Fox News...

O'Reilly and the guys have this cycle of countries/continents who they blame for well pretty much everything, it goes something like...

Blame France, Mexico, Canada, Europe, Canada, Europe, France, Mexico, France, France again, Europe, Canada, France.

They have them on a loop.
Ha O'Railly. Jist Secondary list includes Germany, Belgium, Scandinavian countries and all muslim countries

By the way, he claimid on the Jon Stewa Show that that his boycott of Francei s still ongoing. I do not know how it manifests though. He once targeted Target for "making war on Christmas", but is did not affect the chain store sales. He has an inflated sense of his power of persuation of the average consummer.

Fingon
Dec 29th, 2005, 05:44 AM
David Miller is an idiot, plain and simple.

Not a surprise that gun violence has spiraled since he is in charge.

He says that they need more youth programs to fight violence. Sure, nearly all the shootings have been drugs/gang related, I am sure he will go and ask drug dealers to stop selling drugs and play basketball or hockey instead :rolleyes: .

Typical, now he is admitting that we need more police men in the streets, but that's not the solution either.

Fantino (the ex police chief who Miller didn't like) said they knew this was coming simply because the justice system is way too soft, and he is right. Those thugs don't fear anything because they know a lawyer will get them out in no time.

Miller even asked companies to invest in troubled neighbourhoods to create jobs, whatever Miller, sure those thugs will stop selling drugs to get a job at McDonalds.

This idiot of Miller won't do anything, I only hope people realize he is to blame for this mess and vote him off the office, along with all the leftish counsellors that think they can fight gun crime with sports.

The solution is quite simple, get tough, really, really tough, if you are arrested for a gun related offense, you get 10 years, end of story, no bail, no parole, so you know if you shoot someone you are going to spend the next 10 years behind bars.

If the shooting results in an innocent being hurt, 20 years

And if someone is killed, well, in that case, give him 200 years, they can get out for good behaviours when 2/3 of the conviction have been served? fine, what would be like 130 years.

I am not joking, those thugs should really pay a dearly price, then they will think it twice before pulling his weapons.

Then, they can think of opening youth centres and ask companies to create jobs for gang members.

germex
Dec 29th, 2005, 01:48 PM
Hey, Canadians. You should build a big wall all along the US Border. :lol:

In all seriousness, this is very sad. Toronto is one of my favorites cities, and the times I have been there, i was really impressed with the friendliness and intelligence of a lot of people there. I hope the mayor and the citizens in general find a way to stop the violence.

Fingon
Dec 29th, 2005, 02:55 PM
Hey, Canadians. You should build a big wall all along the US Border. :lol:

In all seriousness, this is very sad. Toronto is one of my favorites cities, and the times I have been there, i was really impressed with the friendliness and intelligence of a lot of people there. I hope the mayor and the citizens in general find a way to stop the violence.

The people are the same, but the people will find a way to stop the violence, by electing a different mayor, that asshole of Miller will only make things worse.

He is trying to cure a flu by giving massages on the toes, that's how much on track he is :rolleyes: