PDA

View Full Version : Karatancheva is not the only one


vogus
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:22 PM
Before people start casting stones at Sesil for being the shame of women's tennis, if it's true she was using steroids, does anybody believe she's the first or the only WTA player who's using them? Come on. She's 16 years old, somebody had to have introduced her to it. Sesil is just the stupid inexperienced one who got caught. If Sesil was cheating with drugs, there are for sure others doing it as well.

Helen Lawson
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:24 PM
Is there some reason why most of the people get busted at the French Open?

Maryamator
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:25 PM
yeah.. Sesil must have learned it from someone.

Maryamator
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:26 PM
Is there some reason why most of the people get busted at the French Open?
coz of lequipe's rumors...

Infiniti2001
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Until you have absolute proof , this is a stupid thread :rolleyes:

rand
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Is there some reason why most of the people get busted at the French Open?
more thorough on controls?

tennisrox
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:28 PM
I think sesil is being pushed too hard by her handlers.They pushed her into the big league before she was ready,physically or mentally,and now they get her into a mess like this.I don't believe Sesil is to blame for this.Someone in charge of her career is making a real mess of things.

Sesil is not the first,nor will she be the last player to get caught for doping.

andrewC
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:34 PM
yeah.. Sesil must have learned it from someone.

you don't know someone introduced her to it, for all any of us know she felt pressured by being the new "young sensation" and felt the need to charge her game up, albeit illegally. I know you are probably one of her biggest fans on this board but you shouldn't look at things with rose tinted glasses. It's all speculation so thats why none of us should pass judgement. I hope it isn't true but its sad if it is. We'll see what comes out in the next few weeks. Wasn't Kuznetsova caught doping a while ago too? What did the ITF do about that? Thanks if anyone knows

vogus
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:34 PM
it's very fortunate for the WTA that this turned out to be a "Black Sheep" type player rather than one of their stars. They are going to try to marginalize Sesil as much as they can now, to push her further away from the main flock of the WTA and minimize the PR damage.

Helen Lawson
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:37 PM
it's very fortunate for the WTA that this turned out to be a "Black Sheep" type player rather than one of their stars. They are going to try to marginalize Sesil as much as they can now, to push her further away from the main flock of the WTA and minimize the PR damage.

If Sesil was a big star, it would have been covered up or they would have arranged for "I had a cold" defense. It's the same in Hollywood. Winona Ryder shoplifted for years, but it's only when she was shit at the box office and no longer an "A" celebrity that they threw her to the wolves. And you wouldn't believe some of the stuff I did in the 50s.

danra
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:44 PM
you don't know someone introduced her to it, for all any of us know she felt pressured by being the new "young sensation" and felt the need to charge her game up, albeit illegally. I know you are probably one of her biggest fans on this board but you shouldn't look at things with rose tinted glasses. It's all speculation so thats why none of us should pass judgement. I hope it isn't true but its sad if it is. We'll see what comes out in the next few weeks. Wasn't Kuznetsova caught doping a while ago too? What did the ITF do about that? Thanks if anyone knows

I believe Kuznetsova allegedly tested positive for ephedrine during the off season - ephedrine apparently isn't banned during the off season, only 'in competition' i.e. WTA/ITF events. I think her alleged test occured whilst playing at Henin's annual charity event.

LadyLil
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:44 PM
Is there some reason why most of the people get busted at the French Open?

Tougher controls and an obviously more vigilant press? I don't think it's an accident Agassi has announced he's not playing the French anymore. The other clay tournies were thrown in to make it look good.

Andre@
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:46 PM
Is there some reason why most of the people get busted at the French Open?

Because the French Law about dopping (the French people can confirm this)
are harder than other countries.

Penglover
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:48 PM
sesil... ah ah ah :haha: :lol:

Corswandt
Dec 20th, 2005, 03:49 PM
more thorough on controls?

I think so.

It was in France that the current anti-doping crusade began with the Festina scandal back in 1998.

saniafan2005
Dec 20th, 2005, 04:16 PM
its not surprising, doping is everywhere but difficult to prove!!

The Crow
Dec 20th, 2005, 05:13 PM
it's very fortunate for the WTA that this turned out to be a "Black Sheep" type player rather than one of their stars. They are going to try to marginalize Sesil as much as they can now, to push her further away from the main flock of the WTA and minimize the PR damage.

If she's proven guilty, she should be punished. I agree with you though that her age should be taken in account.

Shooter
Dec 20th, 2005, 05:14 PM
If Sesil was a big star, it would have been covered up or they would have arranged for "I had a cold" defense. Guess someone decided to make an example of Sesil.
It's too bad that performance enhancing drugs have become a necessity in pro sports.
What is the solution?
These drugs are bad for the athletes and bad for sports in general.

Maryamator
Dec 20th, 2005, 05:17 PM
the only i dont get is the pregnant part..

harloo
Dec 20th, 2005, 05:32 PM
Sesil is caught red handed and the only thing someone can come up with is that she is not the first one. She did the ultimate no no and if true should pay the price. Attempting to include every player you suspect in this mess will not help Sesil.

creep
Dec 20th, 2005, 05:36 PM
They didn't work. Proof, her game.

vogus
Dec 20th, 2005, 05:57 PM
If she's proven guilty, she should be punished. I agree with you though that her age should be taken in account.


in a way i think Sesil is being made an example of - the WTA has allowed the case of an "expendable" player to become publicized as a warning to other players who use doping - as in, "yes, people CAN be caught". The WTA doesn't need Sesil, if this were Sharapova, it would a be PR disaster.

Also because of Sesil's very young age, this doesn't automitically ruin her career. It's not as damaging as if it happened to a player in mid-career.

tennisrox
Dec 20th, 2005, 06:14 PM
Good point.Sesil still has time to bounce back,even if she does get banned.I still feel bad for the kid though.If she were old enough to know a thing or two,i'd have no sympathy for her.The stupid pregnancy defence,makes me think she and everyone around her is clueless.

Fingon
Dec 20th, 2005, 06:21 PM
it's very fortunate for the WTA that this turned out to be a "Black Sheep" type player rather than one of their stars. They are going to try to marginalize Sesil as much as they can now, to push her further away from the main flock of the WTA and minimize the PR damage.

the wta cannot minimize the PR damage because they have not PR, asking the WTA to do damage control is equivalent to asking a 5 years old to explain the theory of relativity.

They don't need Sesil for that, they have fucked up their image pretty well by themselves.

Fingon
Dec 20th, 2005, 06:28 PM
in a way i think Sesil is being made an example of - the WTA has allowed the case of an "expendable" player to become publicized as a warning to other players who use doping - as in, "yes, people CAN be caught". The WTA doesn't need Sesil, if this were Sharapova, it would a be PR disaster.

Also because of Sesil's very young age, this doesn't automitically ruin her career. It's not as damaging as if it happened to a player in mid-career.

this is not the wta, it's the French Federation and the ITF. The WTA doesn't not have that much power, they can't "allow" anything, this is completely out of their hands (like everything else btw).

Now IF this is true (otherwise all this talk is useless), then the wta could turn it in their favour IF they had a brain.

The wta could actually show they care and try to support and help Sesil, put someone to help her through, get her into a rehabilitation program, show her as a victim rather than a criminal, use it to show the dangers of using drugs and the price to pay for that, and also to show you can bounce back with enough help and will.

But can you see the wta doing that? Larry Scott doesn't even know what to have for dinner, let along have a long term vision.

I said IF this is true, and that's a big if, but I also said if the wta's people had a brain, and that's improper use of English because there isn't a conditional situation there, the IF shouldn't be there, they don't have one.

*JR*
Dec 20th, 2005, 07:05 PM
...
Now IF this is true (otherwise all this talk is useless), then the wta could turn it in their favour IF they had a brain.

The wta could actually show they care and try to support and help Sesil, put someone to help her through, get her into a rehabilitation program, show her as a victim rather than a criminal, use it to show the dangers of using drugs and the price to pay for that, and also to show you can bounce back with enough help and will.
....
Yes, but they'd in effect be admitting that the so-called "Partners for Success" mentoring program (under which Judy Wiesner did such wonders for the Strange Suissie re. Harnecker for example, B4 Hofmann was ever involved) has been a joke for years. And one thing Larry firmly believes in is covering their asses.

Ryan
Dec 20th, 2005, 07:08 PM
Before people start casting stones at Sesil for being the shame of women's tennis, if it's true she was using steroids, does anybody believe she's the first or the only WTA player who's using them? Come on. She's 16 years old, somebody had to have introduced her to it. Sesil is just the stupid inexperienced one who got caught. If Sesil was cheating with drugs, there are for sure others doing it as well.



Wow, what a revelation. :rolleyes: Until someone else gets discovered, we cant cast stones at them, now can we?

andrewC
Dec 20th, 2005, 07:40 PM
They didn't work. Proof, her game.

lol love the cynicism as always Creep :D

Savior
Dec 20th, 2005, 07:55 PM
Of course, there's been no proof that she's done anything. But, as for the subject of this thread... since when has "a lot of other people are doing it" been a good excuse for anything?

Volcana
Dec 20th, 2005, 08:22 PM
IF it's true, (and Fingon is right to emphasize that 'IF') it's too bad somebody either got greedy, or lost faith.

Greedy, in that they wanted the money that came with success sooner, rather than later. Lost faith, in that they didn't believe she'd ever BE good enough without cheating.

Was that person Karatantcheva herself? A coach? A parent? Another player?

Who knows?

It's really too bad, but it's also no surprise. Given the amount of money it costs to train an elite player, and the amount of money available to an elite player, the pressure to take shortcuts on the path to riches is enormous. The truly favored, and truly few, get multi-million dollar contracts years before they turn pro. Some others, and their are more of these, have parents who are tennis pros, and thus access to training and facilities at affordable rates. But the 'lumpen proletariat' have parents mortgaging their homes and taking third jobs to put them in Bolletieri's, and almost no hope of ever earning that money back.

And always, always, somebody hanging around the club who knows how an athlete can get a little stronger, and a little faster, in a really short period of time, complete with assurances that 'everybody does it'. Of course, 'everybody' DOESN'T do it, no matter how much some might want to belive drug use is rampant. And Sesil Karantantcheva may be about to find out why. The penalties can be severe, and the loss to your reputation irrepairable. And think about what it costs any player with endorsement potential.

Fingon
Dec 20th, 2005, 09:26 PM
Yes, but they'd in effect be admitting that the so-called "Partners for Success" mentoring program (under which Judy Wiesner did such wonders for the Strange Suissie re. Harnecker for example, B4 Hofmann was ever involved) has been a joke for years. And one thing Larry firmly believes in is covering their asses.

not a half-assed program like that. The idea of having players mentoring players is just :smash: Normally, sports stars are not really very matured or prepared to deal with everything that comes with fan.

They should give the help of professionals, not Navratilova mentors this one, Evert this other one.

That idea was so stupid that might have been suggested by Larry Scott before joining the wta.

WorldWar24
Dec 20th, 2005, 09:36 PM
I haven't read the whole thread but I agree with vogus. I can't believe a 16 year old is the first wta player to get caught. There have been rumours for years, the WTA has done a magnificent job covering things up. It doesn't seem logical that lots of atp players get caught and women in all other sports get caught all the time, and NO wta players get caught, ever. It's hard to believe coz it's a very demanding sport. Last year there were rumours, about Dementieva Kuznetsova etc, and the truth is Kuznetsova sucked this year, she really did. Dementieva, I don't think so but Kuznetsova, as much as I like her, is a bit strange.
The WTA probably gave her a warning or something. In late 2002, there were rumours about top players using substances as well. They probably got a warning as well and things got covered up. Hantuchova and Dokic were the ones who fell apart in 2003, but Dokic had her personal issues to justify that, and Daniela had her parents divorcing so maybe again it was just a coincidence.
Alicia having a inner ear infection is somewhat strange, as well as Henin's mistery virus after she won almost 3 gs's out of 4 in a row. I'm not saying anything, but it does make you think. These sabbatical periods away from tennis right after career highs, it's an awful amount of bad luck

Helen Lawson
Dec 20th, 2005, 09:37 PM
I know, like I'm going to mentor an up-and-coming actress? Right! So she can win more Oscars than me, break my box office records and stuff? Nope! I'd give her all the wrong advice, like, go topless, no problem, star in low-budget crap, it's character building, I could really lay it on. And let's face it, top tennis players are just as egomanical as Helen.

Derek.
Dec 20th, 2005, 11:11 PM
They didn't work. Proof, her game.

:haha:

Shooter
Dec 20th, 2005, 11:13 PM
Alicia having a inner ear infection is somewhat strange, as well as Henin's mistery virus after she won almost 3 gs's out of 4 in a row. I'm not saying anything, but it does make you think. These sabbatical periods away from tennis right after career highs, it's an awful amount of bad luck.Must admit that I've thoughts similar to these, but didn't say anything because I didn't want to open a can of worms.

xan
Dec 21st, 2005, 12:27 AM
Some players do put on a suspicious amount of muscle very quickly. But as in other sports, it tends to be the less-experienced cheaters who get caught.

As for doping itself, it needs to be rigorously eliminated from all sport. If this doesn't happen, it will be impossible for athletes to get anywhere without filling themselves with drugs. Kudos to the French for taking the problem seriously (even to the extent of arresting a good percentage of the Tour de france one year)

Corswandt
Dec 21st, 2005, 12:37 AM
Alicia having a inner ear infection is somewhat strange, as well as Henin's mistery virus after she won almost 3 gs's out of 4 in a row. I'm not saying anything, but it does make you think. These sabbatical periods away from tennis right after career highs, it's an awful amount of bad luck

Yes, I thought those "virus" stories were strange too. Otherwise healthy, young sportswomen in their prime, constantly receiving (I assume) the best medical care money can buy, being knocked out by a virus?

Corswandt
Dec 21st, 2005, 12:46 AM
Last year there were rumours, about Dementieva Kuznetsova etc, and the truth is Kuznetsova sucked this year, she really did. Dementieva, I don't think so but Kuznetsova, as much as I like her, is a bit strange.
The WTA probably gave her a warning or something.

Kuznetsova tested positive for ephedrine during an off-season event. Link for the AP story, which can be found elsewhere:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2005-01-17-doping_x.htm

She wasn't punished because the use of such substances is only unlawful during the actual competition season :rolleyes:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6835656

(posting this mostly to make it clear it wasn't Lena)

WorldWar24
Dec 21st, 2005, 12:50 AM
and the only reason we even heard of the Kuznetsova case was because some belgian authority told the newspapers, and he wasn't supposed to. I'm sure the WTA were upset by that lol. I'm thinking they usually handle the things their way, which is not telling anybody

darrinbaker00
Dec 21st, 2005, 01:00 AM
Has anyone other than L'Equipe reported this? Until then, I can't believe it.

ivanovic
Dec 21st, 2005, 01:33 AM
They're ALL steroids snorting druggies - I'm just glad Serb girls arent like that. :)

fammmmedspin
Dec 21st, 2005, 01:48 AM
in a way i think Sesil is being made an example of - the WTA has allowed the case of an "expendable" player to become publicized as a warning to other players who use doping - as in, "yes, people CAN be caught". The WTA doesn't need Sesil, if this were Sharapova, it would a be PR disaster.

Also because of Sesil's very young age, this doesn't automitically ruin her career. It's not as damaging as if it happened to a player in mid-career.

No evidence it has anything to do with the WTA. The initial people who know are the ITF and French. The news is leaked to a French newspaper. Could be the ITF or an ITF worker making some money or more likely its a French contact talking to a French newspaper which wouldn't be surprising in France.

The amazing thing is that it has leaked when obviously the argument is unresolved. complicated and one for endocrinologists and gynocologists. If a doctor leaked this degree of medical information about a 15 year old patient locally, let alone to the global press, they would be rightly struck off. I don't see it happening in France, where the President himself is a crook, but heads really should roll over the leak.

booa
Dec 21st, 2005, 02:04 AM
Bah dis donc en v'là un autre qui en tient une sacrée couche ...

Sun*Kissed
Dec 21st, 2005, 02:40 AM
What are baseless speculations disparaging other players, and wta conpiracy theories supposed to prove? Let's wait until her guilt is proven or disproven before cooking up the lame excuses (of which this thread is good example)

BUBI
Dec 21st, 2005, 02:07 PM
Other athletes caught on Nandrolone:

* Linford Christie, British sprinter
* Mark Richardson, British sprinter
* Dougie Walker, British sprinter
* Merlene Ottey, Jamaican 200m sprint World Champion
* Dieter Baumann, German sprinter
* Christophe Dugarry, French football player
* Petr Korda, Czech tennis player
* Lenny Paul, British bobsleigh racer
* Edgar Davids, Dutch football player
* James Toney, American boxer
* CJ Hunter...