PDA

View Full Version : Venus and Hingis


VeeReeDavJCap81
Dec 1st, 2005, 08:31 PM
Who thinks we'll see another thriller (ie US Open 1999, 2000 or Wimbledon 2000 QF)???? I think we definitely deserve more :hearts:

-VSR-
Dec 1st, 2005, 08:34 PM
We can only hope... :D

spencercarlos
Dec 1st, 2005, 09:00 PM
Who thinks we'll see another thriller (ie US Open 1999, 2000 or Wimbledon 2000 QF)???? I think we definitely deserve more :hearts:
If Hingis can get to the level that she had in the end of 2000 and start of 2001, i think its pretty posible that Hingis could challenge all top players.

Paneru
Dec 2nd, 2005, 01:01 AM
IMO, Hingis will have to be like Justine
in order to challenge and compete with
the top ladies.

If that happens, sure!

BTW, here's a comment from Venus
on Martina's return published today.

"I always thought it was sad she retired in the first place,'' Venus Williams said of Hingis. "I just think if she can come back, it would be very good for tennis and obviously very good for her.''

dinhd82
Dec 2nd, 2005, 01:03 AM
I think if Hingis can challenge anyone it would be Venus because their games bring out the best in each other.

FaceyFacem
Dec 2nd, 2005, 01:21 AM
venus and hingis matches have been some of my favorites in history, we can only hope we'll see more (esp. if they are more like USO 99 than USO 00!!)

Mother_Marjorie
Dec 2nd, 2005, 01:45 AM
I'll have to be the politically incorrect one here. Venus will stomp Hingis should they meet in the next two years, regardless of Hingis' comeback ability.

I think Hingis' comeback will have a greater impact on motivating Venus and Serena than it will on the WTA as a whole.

Just my opinion.

venus_rulez
Dec 2nd, 2005, 01:53 AM
Off topic but it really annoys me that she is coming back. Not because I think she's a threat to any player I like, because she wasn't really to them the last couple of years she was on tour, but because her comeback will end up labeled as one extreme or another. If she is as successful as she was in her prime, then people will forget all about how she said her feet were ruined and she would never be able to play again, and talk about how great she is. If she isn't successful people will say it's because of the injury. Hingis' biggest asset and her eventual downfall was her ego. Her ego and belief in herself got her to number one but after 1999 that same ego stopped her from winning slams. She was too proud to admit that the game she played was no longer going to work ; she did absolutely nothing about her serve. Maybe her thinking has changed, but if it hasn't she won't get anywhere close to the top 10.

F-R-E-A-K
Dec 2nd, 2005, 02:21 AM
That would be great! :hearts: I still remember both U.S Open SF's :inlove:

I hope Martina does have a successful comeback and raise's her game to the TOP 10 level, so we can see some more great matches again. :hug:

jfk
Dec 2nd, 2005, 02:49 AM
Possibly the best thing about Hingis' return is that she has these great rivalries. With Venus, Serena, Capriati, and Davenport. And now we can see her match up against the newer generation, the Belgians and the Russians. Great stuff.

spencercarlos
Dec 2nd, 2005, 04:03 AM
Off topic but it really annoys me that she is coming back. Not because I think she's a threat to any player I like, because she wasn't really to them the last couple of years she was on tour, but because her comeback will end up labeled as one extreme or another. If she is as successful as she was in her prime, then people will forget all about how she said her feet were ruined and she would never be able to play again, and talk about how great she is. If she isn't successful people will say it's because of the injury. Hingis' biggest asset and her eventual downfall was her ego. Her ego and belief in herself got her to number one but after 1999 that same ego stopped her from winning slams. She was too proud to admit that the game she played was no longer going to work ; she did absolutely nothing about her serve. Maybe her thinking has changed, but if it hasn't she won't get anywhere close to the top 10.
You are taking really cheap shots at Martina, first if you saw her at the Usopen 2002, you would really know that she WAS really AFFECTED by the foot problem, and tell me why she would admit that her game was not sucessful, if she was number one for most of 2001 and in her last couple of years on the tour she reached 2 grand slam finals, and 2 other GS semifinals, beat Venus, Lindsay, Serena.
Did Venus admit something like that between 2003/2004 where she reached 2 GS finals and 1 QF as her best results in that time frame? And look how her year turned around after Wimbledon this year.
Martina will have her chances of course if she comes up with a good fitness condition, that is essential to Hingis's game, her counterpounching abilities. And as i said on a earlier post, if she comes back and can reach the level that she had between 2000/early 2001 or even early 2002 watch out on her, especially on slower surfaces. Anyway it remains up to her and what she can bring on the table.
Honestly i do believe that Martina at her best, is better than at least 5 of the top ten players that are playing today.

Infiniti2001
Dec 2nd, 2005, 05:22 AM
You are taking really cheap shots at Martina, .

You mean like you do to Venus ?? :rolleyes: Meanwhile ifs are pointless :tape:

venus_rulez
Dec 2nd, 2005, 05:40 AM
You are taking really cheap shots at Martina, first if you saw her at the Usopen 2002, you would really know that she WAS really AFFECTED by the foot problem, and tell me why she would admit that her game was not sucessful, if she was number one for most of 2001 and in her last couple of years on the tour she reached 2 grand slam finals, and 2 other GS semifinals, beat Venus, Lindsay, Serena.
Did Venus admit something like that between 2003/2004 where she reached 2 GS finals and 1 QF as her best results in that time frame? And look how her year turned around after Wimbledon this year.
Martina will have her chances of course if she comes up with a good fitness condition, that is essential to Hingis's game, her counterpounching abilities. And as i said on a earlier post, if she comes back and can reach the level that she had between 2000/early 2001 or even early 2002 watch out on her, especially on slower surfaces. Anyway it remains up to her and what she can bring on the table.
Honestly i do believe that Martina at her best, is better than at least 5 of the top ten players that are playing today.



Venus's problem was consistency with her game that is very different from what Martina's problem was which was that she didn't have the game to play the power players. And again saying someone at their best is better than player x is such a relative statement. Lots of people at their best are better than lots of people at their best. For all we know, Alexandra Stevenson may be the best player to ever have touched a racquet when playing at her best, but does that matter if she plays her best at only one tournament every two years? And please have you forgotten what 2001 was like? NO REASONABLE person though Hingis was anywhere near the best player in the world, really at any time since mid 1999. Not even Hingis thought she was deserving of the number one ranking. I remember reading an article where she stated that she felt Jennifer Capriati was the best player in the world. It's obvious I don't like Hingis, but I think she has an amazingly creative game and can hit any shot in the book, but that means nothing if people can just blow the ball by you.

Hingie
Dec 2nd, 2005, 07:07 AM
Venus's problem was consistency with her game that is very different from what Martina's problem was which was that she didn't have the game to play the power players. And again saying someone at their best is better than player x is such a relative statement. Lots of people at their best are better than lots of people at their best. For all we know, Alexandra Stevenson may be the best player to ever have touched a racquet when playing at her best, but does that matter if she plays her best at only one tournament every two years? And please have you forgotten what 2001 was like? NO REASONABLE person though Hingis was anywhere near the best player in the world, really at any time since mid 1999. Not even Hingis thought she was deserving of the number one ranking. I remember reading an article where she stated that she felt Jennifer Capriati was the best player in the world. It's obvious I don't like Hingis, but I think she has an amazingly creative game and can hit any shot in the book, but that means nothing if people can just blow the ball by you.

You have a point, she can't do anything when people are blasting balls past you. What you need to understand is that Hingis fans deeply respect her because she doesn't have this game and can still compete. Yes she did come up against red hot players and did lose but power players come up against each other all the time and they all react to their opponents games differently. Hingis can frustrate power hitters, she does counterpunch but there was mostly intent behind these shots also and she let her opponents contribute to their defeats.

With regards to your argument about her ranking. No one other than Martina through her 'glory time' deserved it more than her - NO one showed more consistency - a snippet below from the WTA site - incredible!

Throughout her tennis career, Hingis was a model of consistency. She won at least one singles and doubles title and earned at least one million dollars in prize money each year for seven straight years. In addition, Hingis reached the semi-finals or better in 104 of the 118 events she played between the 1996 US Open and 2002 Indian Wells.

spencercarlos
Dec 2nd, 2005, 07:37 AM
You mean like you do to Venus ?? :rolleyes: Meanwhile ifs are pointless :tape:
That is because i don't like some of her comments after losing matches like..
"Had i played 10 percent better and i would have won"
"If I would have played decent, I would have won."
"I gow thrown off by her bad play, that was a probably a good tactic from her"
Instead of admiting that her she needed to work on her game (when played Lindsay last year or Molik at the Australian) or her fitness when she ran out of gas at the Usopen vs Kim.
That is the problem Infinity that when Venus comes up with comments like this she is "confident" but when other players say something like that they are "arrogant".

Knizzle
Dec 2nd, 2005, 07:40 AM
That is because i don't like some of her comments after losing matches like..
"Had i played 10 percent better and i would have won"
"If I would have played decent, I would have won."
"I gow thrown off by her bad play, that was a probably a good tactic from her"
Instead of admiting that her she needed to work on her game (when played Lindsay last year or Molik at the Australian) or her fitness when she ran out of gas at the Usopen vs Kim.
That is the problem Infinity that when Venus comes up with comments like this she is "confident" but when other players say something like that they are "arrogant".

Venus didn't have fitness problems at the US Open that's a load of crap. And which players say things like that and get labeled arrogant WITHOUT Venus also being labeled as such?

Jeff
Dec 2nd, 2005, 07:42 AM
Who thinks we'll see another thriller (ie US Open 1999, 2000 or Wimbledon 2000 QF)???? I think we definitely deserve more :hearts:

Oh I sure hope so. The best matches I feel that I own are those between Hingis and Venus.

spencercarlos
Dec 2nd, 2005, 07:54 AM
Venus's problem was consistency with her game that is very different from what Martina's problem was which was that she didn't have the game to play the power players. And again saying someone at their best is better than player x is such a relative statement. Lots of people at their best are better than lots of people at their best. For all we know, Alexandra Stevenson may be the best player to ever have touched a racquet when playing at her best, but does that matter if she plays her best at only one tournament every two years? And please have you forgotten what 2001 was like? NO REASONABLE person though Hingis was anywhere near the best player in the world, really at any time since mid 1999. Not even Hingis thought she was deserving of the number one ranking. I remember reading an article where she stated that she felt Jennifer Capriati was the best player in the world. It's obvious I don't like Hingis, but I think she has an amazingly creative game and can hit any shot in the book, but that means nothing if people can just blow the ball by you.
Hingis was definetly the best player of 1999, as she reached 3 GS finals and won one of them.
It is interesting but Hingis's case being number one in the world in the rankings between 2000/2001 its the same as Davenport for 2004/2005, at least Hingis won a Masters during this period, while Lindsay only had a bunch of titles, but not really the important ones, and some people think that Lindsay deserves her spot.... why would not Hingis?, after all she was the more consistent player then.
Anyway being the top ranked player and being the best are far away, the top ranked player is the best player to play the ranking for the year, and the best player is the one who performed better overall on the most important events in tennis (its just a personal opinion).

It's obvious I don't like Hingis, but I think she has an amazingly creative game and can hit any shot in the book, but that means nothing if people can just blow the ball by you.
Who knows, Arantxa was never as poweful as Steffi or Monica, and still figured out how to win a match here and there, playing smart defensive/counterpounching tennis. Hingis did the same after Usopen 1999 when the Williamses and Davenport were playing great tennis winning some matches against these power players, and Serena and Venus were not near their best tennis this year as they were between 1999/2002.

spencercarlos
Dec 2nd, 2005, 07:57 AM
Venus didn't have fitness problems at the US Open that's a load of crap. And which players say things like that and get labeled arrogant WITHOUT Venus also being labeled as such?
Venus ran out of gas in the third set vs Kim. Anybody who saw the match knows it. They put such an effort at the end of the second set and Venus did not seemed to get a second air after that and lost the third set quickly. Rarely from Venus.. we have to go back to 1999 Semi Usopen vs Hingis to remmember a match that she lost because of fitness condition.

LTT
Dec 2nd, 2005, 08:06 AM
:haha:

Go Martina :hearts:

Knizzle
Dec 2nd, 2005, 08:13 AM
Venus ran out of gas in the third set vs Kim. Anybody who saw the match knows it. They put such an effort at the end of the second set and Venus did not seemed to get a second air after that and lost the third set quickly. Rarely from Venus.. we have to go back to 1999 Semi Usopen vs Hingis to remmember a match that she lost because of fitness condition.

If you have to go back to 99 then that should tell you something. Basically that Venus is always physically fit. In that QF Venus said her recurring hip problem came up so she couldn't move like she wanted to, but of course you probably don't believe her.

dinhd82
Dec 2nd, 2005, 09:04 AM
It's all psychological, Williams sisters' "injuries" tend to flare up whenever they start to lose a couple of games, it's a given. Venus' serve goes into whack mode, throws in a shitload of DFs, Serena as well.

CanadianBoy21
Dec 2nd, 2005, 09:12 AM
Hingis needs one win over a top player and she'll know she is back to the top level.
Having said that, who will be the top player?

Hingie
Dec 2nd, 2005, 09:38 AM
Of the matches i've seen, i actually think she could have a shot at someone like Sharapova. I see Hingis frustrating her to no end.

Infiniti2001
Dec 2nd, 2005, 01:42 PM
That is because i don't like some of her comments after losing matches like..
"Had i played 10 percent better and i would have won"
"If I would have played decent, I would have won."
"I gow thrown off by her bad play, that was a probably a good tactic from her"
Instead of admiting that her she needed to work on her game (when played Lindsay last year or Molik at the Australian) or her fitness when she ran out of gas at the Usopen vs Kim.
That is the problem Infinity that when Venus comes up with comments like this she is "confident" but when other players say something like that they are "arrogant".

Do you even REALIZE how cliche you are?? :rolleyes:

sioul
Dec 2nd, 2005, 01:56 PM
Off topic but it really annoys me that she is coming back. Not because I think she's a threat to any player I like, because she wasn't really to them the last couple of years she was on tour, but because her comeback will end up labeled as one extreme or another. If she is as successful as she was in her prime, then people will forget all about how she said her feet were ruined and she would never be able to play again, and talk about how great she is. If she isn't successful people will say it's because of the injury. Hingis' biggest asset and her eventual downfall was her ego. Her ego and belief in herself got her to number one but after 1999 that same ego stopped her from winning slams. She was too proud to admit that the game she played was no longer going to work ; she did absolutely nothing about her serve. Maybe her thinking has changed, but if it hasn't she won't get anywhere close to the top 10.

:o

well we are hoping for some more classics.

this has nothing to do with this thread

Billabong
Dec 2nd, 2005, 02:44 PM
Hingis was definetly the best player of 1999, as she reached 3 GS finals and won one of them.
It is interesting but Hingis's case being number one in the world in the rankings between 2000/2001 its the same as Davenport for 2004/2005, at least Hingis won a Masters during this period, while Lindsay only had a bunch of titles, but not really the important ones, and some people think that Lindsay deserves her spot.... why would not Hingis?, after all she was the more consistent player then.
Anyway being the top ranked player and being the best are far away, the top ranked player is the best player to play the ranking for the year, and the best player is the one who performed better overall on the most important events in tennis (its just a personal opinion).


Who knows, Arantxa was never as poweful as Steffi or Monica, and still figured out how to win a match here and there, playing smart defensive/counterpounching tennis. Hingis did the same after Usopen 1999 when the Williamses and Davenport were playing great tennis winning some matches against these power players, and Serena and Venus were not near their best tennis this year as they were between 1999/2002.

I totally agree:)

SAEKeithSerena
Dec 2nd, 2005, 03:19 PM
venus would down her

the bambi
Dec 2nd, 2005, 04:00 PM
venus would down her

do you really think martina has forgotten how to play venus? :p besides, venus isn't so invincible herself these days, is she? i can't wait until their first match cause they not only bring out the best in each other but they're not really fond of each other which helps a rivalry.

terjw
Dec 2nd, 2005, 04:04 PM
Who thinks we'll see another thriller (ie US Open 1999, 2000 or Wimbledon 2000 QF)???? I think we definitely deserve more :hearts:

It would be nice but I don't think it will happen - not in a slam anyway:
In a slam I think Venus will be too good for Martina and it will be one-sided.
Any other tournament - it wouldn't surprise me if Martina won with Venus capitulating in the third set. That wouldn't be a thriller though if that happened.

thelittlestelf
Dec 2nd, 2005, 04:09 PM
Martina was able to handle power, her tactics just let loose after 2000. She stopped taking the ball early, and therefore stopped winning slams. It's simple.

I hope she and Venus can renew their rivalry. It was fantastic.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Dec 2nd, 2005, 04:45 PM
other but they're not really fond of each other which helps a rivalry.

:lol: This isn't '97 anymore, the girls have a lot of respect for each other these days.

Brooks.
Dec 2nd, 2005, 04:47 PM
so kind of hingis to return just so Venus could fix that h2h record over her...

creep
Dec 2nd, 2005, 04:48 PM
No chance

Stamp Paid
Dec 2nd, 2005, 04:52 PM
Martina, the fury thou hath unleashed!

spencercarlos
Dec 2nd, 2005, 05:24 PM
Do you even REALIZE how cliche you are?? :rolleyes:
Why ? Do i have to agree on what Venus says?
No..

Do i have to agree on what you think?
No.
You are just bitter towards me because i don't agree with all of what your favorite players does.

AkademiQ
Dec 2nd, 2005, 06:22 PM
You mean like you do to Venus ?? :rolleyes: Meanwhile ifs are pointless :tape:


:worship: Thank you!

spencercarlos
Dec 2nd, 2005, 06:36 PM
If you have to go back to 99 then that should tell you something. Basically that Venus is always physically fit. In that QF Venus said her recurring hip problem came up so she couldn't move like she wanted to, but of course you probably don't believe her.
Knizzle... movement has a lot to do with physical conditioning/fitness.. Anyway this is off topic.
I really hope that Hingis can bring her best to make it interesting, if that does not happen, she'll get eaten for lunch in her comeback

Infiniti2001
Dec 2nd, 2005, 08:39 PM
Why ? Do i have to agree on what Venus says?
No..

Do i have to agree on what you think?
No.
You are just bitter towards me because i don't agree with all of what your favorite players does.

Boy, you need to get over yourself :rolleyes: Why should I waste my time being bitter towards some faceless twit. :eek: Bottom-line, I detest arrogant double standards. I'll call on you or anyone who rags on Venus on any of other fav. any and all the time :tape:

spencercarlos
Dec 2nd, 2005, 08:53 PM
Boy, you need to get over yourself :rolleyes: Why should I waste my time being bitter towards some faceless twit. :eek: Bottom-line, I detest arrogant double standards. I'll call on you or anyone who rags on Venus on any of other fav. any and all the time :tape:
Simply because it's pointless to try to discuss something with you, it will be lovely to add you as my first user on the ignore list :devil: :kiss:
Bye