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View Full Version : Couple of comments about the Daniela vs Martina result.....


aura of daniela
May 3rd, 2002, 04:12 PM
This match must have been a great one to watch......seemed like there was tension, tight point and great play.
Daniela has lost nothing with this lost in my opinion, she must have played well, and a couple of points would probably have made the difference.

Now, please don't take this as being bias, but I have a couple of questions/comments.

Firstly, apart from Martina's extra experience on clay, can anything else really be taken out of such a tight match??

and secondly, a lot of people are calling this result revenge, but I cant see revenge in it at all. Martina would have taken the Indian Wells final over this match a 100 times over......maybe a consilation prize would be a more appropriate description.

If Martina can beat Daniela in the French, or in one of the up coming finals at Rome or Berlin, then that will be called revenge, but until then, Daniela is still one up on Martina, and there head to head is still 1 all after all.

Great match though, and I am extremely upset a didn't get to see it.
Well done bot girls, and keep your chin up Daniela.......another big win is only around the corner.

All my support and luck is with you Daniela.

Simon V

irma
May 3rd, 2002, 04:24 PM
Daniela pretty much dominated the match from what I saw either she made a winner or a unforced error!

aura of daniela
May 3rd, 2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by irma
Daniela pretty much dominated the match from what I saw either she made a winner or a unforced error!

Thats kind of nice to know irma........Daniela still should know that when her game is on, she can beat Martina.

She controls her own destiny in the majority of her matches really.

Simon V

victory1
May 3rd, 2002, 04:35 PM
She's right Aura, it was on Daniela's racquet to win or lose! She was the aggressor! I think her in-experience did her in.

ESPN Write-up************
Earlier, Hingis avenged her recent defeat by Daniela Hantuchova in the final of the Indian Wells tournament by beating the sixth seeded Slovak 7-5, 6-4.

Yet, it was Hantuchova who dictated much of the play, often beating Hingis with a well-struck forehand. She forced a number of errors with her deep groundstrokes, or by stretching Hingis wide, but she also overhit the ball often enough to keep the Swiss number three seed in contention.

Although Hingis snatched an early break to lead 2-1, Hantuchova levelled at 3-3 and then earned a set point at 5-4. But Hingis escaped when the Slovak netted a backhand, and then broke to lead 6-5 and served out to love for the set.

In the second set, Hingis took a 2-1 lead on her fifth break point, and although she failed to convert another six break points for a 4-1 lead and allowed Hantuchova to level at 4-4, the 2000 champion responded by forcing a backhand error to break again for 5-4, and then safely served out for victory.

EVAspeed
May 3rd, 2002, 05:22 PM
i'm glad to hear this about daniela.

too bad she lost. :sad:

smygelfh
May 3rd, 2002, 06:01 PM
Of course it was all in Daniela's hands. We all know it's just a big coincident that just about everyone hits all those UE's against poor Martina, who's just standing there and hoping the opponent will miss. I don't believe that if you don't take those chances, you will get the ball back and get another chance to miss it. I don't believe you will get the ball back against something as weak as Martina, so the only chance she'll win is if you miss smashes all the time. So, I totally agree with you. Shame on Daniela for wasting this easy match.

Jakeev
May 3rd, 2002, 07:20 PM
Well, if power players like Daniela and Serena are the ones always dictating the points in every match this does not really bode well for a player like Martina Hingis.

Martina had to be doing something right to win the match, but she is gonna have to find more ways to not let a player like Daniela always dictate points.

A lucky break for Martina......

Ryan
May 3rd, 2002, 07:29 PM
*SIGH* Daniela did dictate in this match. But it was Hingis' ability to make her play one extra shot in each rally that won the match for her. smygelfh, you call beating hingis an easy match? The only way she can win is if you miss smashes? Tell that to JCap, whom Martina had on the rops at AO 02. Tell that to Venus, and Serena, after every time they've lost to Martina. (yes, I know martina hasn't beaten either in a while. But I just think it's anything but an 'easy match' against her, most of the time anyway);)

Debbie Foy
May 3rd, 2002, 07:37 PM
poor martia--girl can not even win match anymore wifout peeps making excuses that girl shoulda lost.....weirds to me...very weird...lady not plays as good as before cuppa years ago--still can not gets 'cleans" wins wifout hassle on her--unfair

thefreedesigner
May 3rd, 2002, 07:41 PM
ryan, smygelfh was being sarcastic (I think)!

Ryan
May 3rd, 2002, 07:46 PM
Thanks, Now thta I read his post again, maybe he sas being sarcastic. Use a :rolleyes: next time to make it more clear!;)

RAA
May 3rd, 2002, 08:06 PM
not a big hingis fan myself, but I find myself agreeing Ryan14. even if it was on Daniela's racquet to win this match, she did not execute her game plan and thus did not win. Give Martina credit when its due. MABYE daniela should have / could have won this match. But she didn't.
And now they are 1-1 in head to head matches.

smygelfh
May 3rd, 2002, 08:32 PM
I refuse to use any clarity marks for my sarcasms, I'll just try to write a better one next time ;)

hugetennisfan
May 3rd, 2002, 08:51 PM
I didn't see the match, so I can't comment on it at all.

However, it seems that whenever Martina plays against someone who is taller that she is, we hear, "The match is in <insert name>'s hands..." This list could go on and on, but includes, Venus, Serena, Jen, Kim, Daniela, Monica, Alexandra, and probably even Justine!

If Martina really has no control over the outcome of her matches against the bigger players, then she must be really lucky, cause she wins a lot of them! :) Has anyone ever considered the possibility that Martina's play draws more errors from her opponents??? :) Just a thought!

Jessica02
May 3rd, 2002, 09:00 PM
I dont care if Martina made 0 winners and Daniela made 100 UE.

Either way what it comes down to is the big points whoever plays them better derserves to win and does win.

Im a huge Marti fan..As well as she played at Aussie I credit Jen 100% she completly deserved to win she played the big points better than marti did.
I think Marti played much better than Jen for the most part of that match but she couldnt convert...

..After my little ramble....finally getting to the point...
Daniela didnt produce on the big points Martina did.

~*Alma*~
May 3rd, 2002, 09:09 PM
I also agree with ryan.
Although Martina isn't the number one anymore, she's still one of the top-players. Daniela is one for the future that's for sure, but I don't think Martina only won because of the mistakes Daniela made. Martina made a lot of great points and forced Daniela to make mistakes. Of course she also made unforsed errors, but so did Martina. I've seen great points from both sides, but I still think the most beatiful points were made by Martina. Of course a tennis match isn't about making the most beautiful points, but it's still nice to watch.

anyways, it was an exciting match to watch and I really wish Martina all the luck she needs to win this tournament. And I also hope Daniela has a lot of luck this year, cause she really is a great player.

oh and btw hugetennisfan, I don't know why Monica is also in your list, cause Martina has no problems defeting her at all!

:)

hugetennisfan
May 3rd, 2002, 10:10 PM
Hey Almie, I know that Martina hasn't had any trouble lately with Monica... But the commentators here haven't caught on! They always say when Martina's up against the power players, it's out of her control, even against Monica.

RockSteady
May 3rd, 2002, 10:44 PM
Against the other power players, those aggressive Hingis shots are always retrieved, and Hingis feels the pressure of errors piling on she doesn't feel against the less mobile Seles. This is why she often plays mid-court loopy ball against the quicker power players.

But if UEs controlled the match, and Martina doesn't have any say, why hasn't Anna Smashnova won five Grand Slams?

Cybelle Darkholme
May 3rd, 2002, 10:56 PM
I like martina's game and recently i've even come to like martina and root for her though not against my favs :)

However lets clear something up, okay? When a player forces the issue and draws an error from their opponent it is called a "forced error". When a player makes a mistake that should have been a makeable shot it is an "unforced error".

That is why when someone has a high unforced error count and loses a match they say that person beat themselves. If you have high forced errors then you were beaten by a better player who was on that day.

players can cause forced errors not unforced ones. Thats why there is a difference between forced and unforced in the first place.

Anyway nice match martina, I like daniela, but its good to show the up and comers that its not all going to be a cake walk.

rated_next
May 3rd, 2002, 11:05 PM
Debbie Foy:

poor martia--girl can not even win match anymore wifout peeps making excuses that girl shoulda lost.....weirds to me...very weird...lady not plays as good as before cuppa years ago--still can not gets 'cleans" wins wifout hassle on her--unfair

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I have NO IDEA what this poster is saying. :confused:

RockSteady
May 3rd, 2002, 11:21 PM
cyber, nice point, but I think it's flawed. Do you play tennis? Anyone that plays tennis seriously (tournaments, college, whatever) would know what I'm talking about. When you play someone who just doesn't mess up you have two options: rally with them for minutes, or go for your shots. It's nearly impossible to beat Martina by being more consistent and having rallies with her, no? And if you give her a short ball, she kills it. So in the back of your mind, you're thinking you have to stay aggressive and go for your shots, hit it deep and hard and close to the lines, or you won't win. And when players try to hit hard shots in the corners, they are bound to make mistakes. It's part of the pressure one feels when playing someone who is so consistent. So although Hantuchova may have missed that down-the-line forehand by a foot when she wasn't forced to make an error, she would have lost by an even worse scoreline if she didn't try to hit those fine-line winners.

treufreund
May 4th, 2002, 01:28 AM
Consistency kills. It's a form of aggression in and of itself. I have played against people who are even more consistent than me and play good defense. It's tiring physically and mentally and you cannot win a lot of points unless you hit a great winner, volley or dropshot winner. I can do these things some times against these players and the ball still comes back deep. After while you feel overwhelmed you just cannot believe how the other player is always there and is hardly missing and you just don't want to see the ball coming back over and over. Is Martina just some lucky Amanda Coetzer? I love Amanda but Martina does much more with the ball than Amanda.

Kart
May 4th, 2002, 01:38 AM
Irrespective of whether Daniela dictated throughout the match, she still didn't win it so hopefully Martina will focus on this positive result for her and carry the momentum forward into her next match. That's what she can take from this tight match.

As for whether this is revenge or not, I'm sure that Martina felt she had a point to prove against Daniela - if she had lost, people would be asking a lot of questions from her about whether Indian Wells was the start of a trend.

aura of daniela
May 4th, 2002, 02:08 AM
The funniest thing about this thread is that the discussion once again has nothing to do with the thread.

But, I can't help that.

So I'll guess I'll join in

I adore Daniela more than anyone, but it comes down to the scoreboard at the end of the day.

It was more comforting that Daniela sort of decide the match, but it is silly to say that if Daniela played better, she would have one.......of course she would have. If anyone plays better, they will win, especially in a tight match.

But when you win the match, you win the match.
Daniela won't be thinking, gee Martina didn't win it, I lost it...........or maybe she is, I don't know. :confused: :) .

hehehehehehe

Simon V

~ The Leopard ~
May 4th, 2002, 05:15 AM
I guess the point of the thread is that those of us who love Daniela can take comfort in the fact that she played well.

Good luck to Martina for the rest of the tournament. Beat Venus!

And GO DANIELA :kiss: next time!

deftman
May 4th, 2002, 06:01 AM
I guess the point of the thread is that those of us who love Daniela can take comfort in the fact that she played well.

Well said.The fans can Daniela can always console themselves saying that she was in the attacking or dominating mode.
Thought does that hold any virtue at all?.
Now I can play ,dominatingly ,against the world no.1 player and still lose.What does virtue does it hold?
Power Tennis ,on it's own has no virtue.I can name , 100's of players on the tour who are power tennis players,and who would probably dominate Hingis ,but still lose!
It's the art of playing power tennis, without making errors that matters.Players like Venus ,Serena ,Lindsay ,Jenny would fit the bill.

And saying that Daniela is one up against Hingis,is plain ridiculous! Infact only when Daniella defeats Hingis atleast one more time,can you say that she is one up against Hingis.
Daniela obviously has immense talent ,but a lot of it is still dormant. Yeah sure she beat Hingis in a Tier 1 final ,and causes a huge upset.But have you been following both their results since then?And what would be your conclusion?

100's of players could beat Hingis when they play their best.But when their best comes once a year or once in their lifetime ,does that automatically mean that they are better players than Hingis?
Only players that have beaten Hingis atleast more than 1 time in the past two years ,or atleast have a higher ranking or better results than her could qualify as better players than Hingis.
Yeah sure,Hingis is a defensive player.But that doesnt mean that you should expect every power player ,on the tour to smack her.
It's pretty easy to be a power player.In cutting down the errors while playing power tennis ,lies the challenge.

So whenever Hingis beats a power player, you couldnt give any credit to her.Fine,coz she played the same way as she lost.
However then it would imply that it's a matter of shame on the power player's acount that she made so many UE's

~ The Leopard ~
May 4th, 2002, 06:16 AM
What's the problem, deftman? No one here is attacking your beloved Martina. I certainly didn't in my post that you quoted from. On the contrary, I wished her luck against Venus. Why so aggressive? Martina's fans are usually so nice... :confused:

jomar
May 4th, 2002, 06:23 AM
I guess deftman covered it all.:angel: :bounce: :kiss:

Marti actually supressed Daniela's power with her precision shotmaking.;) Their only chance to beat Marti is to go for winners, thus explains their unforced errors. Marti's game is reallyy the antidote to power game.:)

It was nice to see also Marti & Daniela practicing together at the center court before their encounter.:angel: :bounce: :kiss:

lrg bllt
May 4th, 2002, 06:32 AM
all that matters is the better player won, and that was Martina and thats the end of it. It was Martina that did the best in the match over all.:hearts: :kiss: :bounce:

~ The Leopard ~
May 4th, 2002, 06:53 AM
I'd just add that Daniela *really* should have her own forum here.

aura of daniela
May 4th, 2002, 06:56 AM
Deftman, you have to realise that sometime, you are just happy that your favourite went out there are played there game.

Safety and Precision has always been part of Martina's game, but I could never really see Daniela ever playing that way.

I would be more disappointed if Daniela went out there, played safe and conservative and lost the match.
If you are a good enough player, you can play your game well on any surface. I admit slight tweaks to a players game can be very effective, but to change Daniela's style from they way it is too they way Martina plays wouldn't be right.

Martina is a unique player in an era of Power type players, so she will always have these type of comment about her basically allowing her opponent to lose the game. I think you just have to face that fact.

I remember people were quick to point out that Martina didn't really play her game when Daniela beat her at IW, and now it is basically the opposite.
No Martina fans really gave Daniela credit for the IW final, and made excuses for her loss.
This time, I'm not making excuses, I'm just telling it the way it is.
Martina played the big points better today than Daniela did.
Daniela had her chances to win today, but Martina was a bit better in the crunch. Thats it.

I said that Daniela was 1 up on Martina because of the value of each of there win, thats all. We all know it's 1 all head to head, but I'm sure both player would take the IW final first.

Simon V

treufreund
May 4th, 2002, 07:08 AM
:wavey: Aura :)

Guys I think Aura is being very reasonable and respectful like he always is. Daniela played competitively obviously and he is not taking anything away from Martina. The only thing I disagree with is the implication that Martina is playing "conservatively". Sometimes she does this but when she is at her best she will hit a decent amount of winners and win many other points because her shots lands VERY close to the lines if not on them. Hitting shots on or close to the lands over and over is not conservative.:)

aura of daniela
May 4th, 2002, 07:32 AM
Thanks for the comment treufreund, and :wavey: to you as well.

Also, when I said I wouldn't want Daniela to play conservative, I wasn't implying that Martina was playing that way, it was just a general comment.

Martina does have Precision a lot of player would die for.

Daniela has the courage most players would die for.

They have a great contrast in styles, thats why the match was so tight.

:wavey: to everyone.

Simon V

EVAspeed
May 4th, 2002, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by jouissant
I guess the point of the thread is that those of us who love Daniela can take comfort in the fact that she played well.

Good luck to Martina for the rest of the tournament. Beat Venus!

And GO DANIELA :kiss: next time!
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