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joaco
May 3rd, 2002, 02:26 AM
The last days I have been reading articles about Venus and Serena being taken to Ghettos to show where they have come from, etc. They came from very poor places from LA. I find that very admirable...
as Richard said, he did not want their daughters to forget where they've come from and to keep that in their attitude towards life (tennis, peers, etc); BUT why all articles keep telling that Venus and Serena think they are above all other players and bash them with no concerns. I know that they're old articles and both of them have changed A LOT, but sometimes they just keep doing that, which, obviously is very annoying to many players.

This thread is not to criticize the Williams siters, but to understand their attitude. Shouldn't they be more down-to-earth instead of believing themselves more than the other player. If your opinion says that they're the best, shouldn't they keep to themselves instead of acting this way?

hope to get some answers:)

joao
May 3rd, 2002, 02:43 AM
There's a real difference between being humble in life and being humble on a tennis court! While being humble and knowing that everything in life is not just roses can help you have a better life, modesty on a tennis court won't make you win the match! Moreover, intimidation factor is still a good weapon in tennis! I believe that a winning attitude is 50% of a victory ! Remember Henin saying she was afraid of Hantuchova??? Result, she lost the match! I won't blame the sisters to believe in themselves and think they're better players than the rest (which they are:bounce: ) ...

Althea
May 3rd, 2002, 02:53 AM
This thread is not to criticize the Williams siters, but to understand their attitude :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Their siters???

CC
May 3rd, 2002, 02:54 AM
I'm confused, did you just answer your own post? Or is it someone else? :confused:

angele87
May 3rd, 2002, 03:00 AM
:rolleyes:

Infiniti2001
May 3rd, 2002, 03:02 AM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

joaco
May 3rd, 2002, 03:24 AM
all right, don't give me that looks...
I wanna know why Serena & Venus act as they were the only ones that matter and treat others as less in the court while they have come from so little. I really don't understand, i think it should be the other way around.
CC: sorry u did not undetand, I gave a possible answer that I'm not quite sure of.

persond
May 3rd, 2002, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by joaco
all right, don't give me that looks...
I wanna know why Serena & Venus act as they were the only ones that matter and treat others as less in the court while they have come from so little. I really don't understand, i think it should be the other way around.
CC: sorry u did not undetand, I gave a possible answer that I'm not quite sure of.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

LucasArg
May 3rd, 2002, 03:45 AM
I really don't know about this. I know Paola Suarez from Argentina once said in an interview that the Williams sisters are not friendly in the tour, but I really don't know about it.

Pureracket
May 3rd, 2002, 04:26 AM
Joaco,
How exactly would one suggest that the Williams sisters act? Regardless of anyone's background, do you think a person should be required to act a certain way?

What of the players that come from great means? Would one expect them to act a certain way?

HEAVYHITTER
May 3rd, 2002, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by joaco
all right, don't give me that looks...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Shouldn't they be more down-to-earth instead of believing themselves more than the other player.

No. Martina did it - and got away with it.

HAIL-VENUS
May 3rd, 2002, 04:51 AM
Uhm, excuse me but, how in the hell are we supposed to know this information? If you feel this way about Venus and Serena based upon what you've read, then that's fine, but asking Williams fans about your perception of their attitude is absurd. Oh, yeah, and::rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p

Deira
May 3rd, 2002, 05:05 AM
I know that they're old articles and both of them have changed A LOT, but sometimes they just keep doing that

What is it that they keep doing, other than winning tennis matches? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

irma
May 3rd, 2002, 06:17 AM
people keep talking about their "bad" attitudes but I never read or heard about anything what they did or said was bad except telling that they will be the best tennisplayers in the world one day wich first is very close to the truth and second almost young tennisplayers said that but in venus and serena's situation it was suddenly bad :rolleyes:
that doesn't make sense :rolleyes: :o

"Topaz"
May 3rd, 2002, 06:42 AM
This kind of threads keeps coming on and on. Some people just can't take it that the Williams keep their head high.

It would help to consider the following rules of conduct many people have adopted:

1- When all eyes are on you, look straight up.

2- If some people don't come looking for your friendship, they shouldn't sit and expect you to come looking for theirs.

3- If you have your best friend and sister nearby (assuming you're shy) stay put.

What is so hard to understand? I concede these are not the best rules if you're running for office. But if you are a 19/20-year old girl thrust into a cut-throat multi-million dollar inferno, these are pretty good rules to adhere to. This way, you can focus on the business at hand, and wave and smile when needed.

Miranda
May 3rd, 2002, 07:03 AM
irma your avator is really cute :D :hearts:

irma
May 3rd, 2002, 09:01 AM
miranda It's superdog bobby who should not suffer under the mean attacks of a certain fan of his boss;)

oddkayla
May 3rd, 2002, 09:08 AM
I agree with you TennisPower. I am not really sure how people want or expect the Williamses to act. They are criticized for their own personalities because they are from a poor background? Whatever happened to rising above your station? Do people honestly expect the Williams sisters to bow to the rest of their peers because they "were" poor?
This is not only absurd but such a patronising attitude it is not funny. Perhaps people should consider the fact that the Williams sisters came from lesser means is what makes them so determined to be the best. There is nothing wrong in that and that attitude should be adopted by everyone who has ever lacked.
I say leave the girls alone. If anyone wants their friendship, they should approach them, and not judge them from a distance. If you want someone to greet you, you greet them first, and they will answer you.

Besides, this humility expected of players of an individual sport is ridiculous. Ask mary Joe what it has meant to her career to be too nice and not go for the jugular!

Rayny
May 3rd, 2002, 09:46 AM
What bad things have the Williams done or said? I've never read them say anything bad about another player or put someone else down.

thefreedesigner
May 3rd, 2002, 10:07 AM
what clocker said. Think about it. :cool:

Foot_Fault
May 3rd, 2002, 10:57 AM
All i have to say to this thread is...
:rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Volcana
May 3rd, 2002, 11:29 AM
joaco - Your thread is based on a false premise. You haven't given any examples of the Williams sisters bashing anybody or being arrogant. You SAID you've read them, but you haven't given any examples. We did all this two year's ago. There was a thread on the old WTA board called "Venus said it". We listed every single example of Venus bashing or denigrating another player. You know how many we found? NONE.

The answer to your question is, Venus and Serena DON'T act like they are better than everyone else. And I challenge you to give your examples, instead of claiming that you read that 'somebody said'.

Give us examples

To me, this is a thread trying to bait Williams fans into a fight. So far, it has not succeeded. I could have changed the name of the thread to 'Contradiction about Hantuchova', and I wouldn't have had to change a word, becasue there were no FACTS in the initial thread, just supposition.

Actually, I'm being unfair. Maybe you actually have examples or Venus being rude and just haven't had time to list them. Please list them now. Otherwise, I have to say the best answer to your question is....

There IS no 'contradiction' about the Williams sisters. There have been some negative comments ABOUT them from SOME of their opponents. Possibly motivated by jealousy. But I have NEVER seen an example in video or print of Venus or Serena actually saying ANYTHING bad about an opponent. And until I do, I have to continue with jealousy as the main motivaor of such criticism.

Give us examples

Williams Rulez
May 3rd, 2002, 02:22 PM
I think being humble on a tennis court is useless, why in the world would you want the mindset of 'I'm not as good as my opponent' on the court? That is so bloody useless...

A little 'arrogance' if that's what you want to call it would help more than it would hurt them, ever though it may rub people the wrong way at times.

But I think, they are very humble and great people off the court.

supremeross
May 3rd, 2002, 02:47 PM
What's really the point of this thread? I think this poster is really trying to provoke all the Williams fan into a fight. And I like how the media always love to bring up the point that Venus and Serena came from the background that they did. Out of the thousand of players on both the women's and men's tour, I find it hard to believe that everyone BUT the Williamses were born with a silver spoon in their mouth. I guess none of the other players on tour come from third world, war-torn or poverty-stricken countries. But I guess it reads so much better about two black girls rising out of the ghetto and making good for themselves.

But really, what's the point of this thread?? IF we were talking about basketball, football or baseball nothing would be said about a player making a remark of wanting to go out and beat an opponent. Or is the point of this thread to say that Venus and Serena should humble themselves, because after all they do come from the ghetto???

All4Williams
May 3rd, 2002, 03:08 PM
Joaco,

I do not believe that anyone would question Venus and Serena on court behaviour. These two ladies are the best behaved girls on court. They never swear, never argue and do not give others looks.
If you want to see badly behaved girls there are enough clear examples out there.

I do believe that Venus and Serena should be allowed to be proud of what they have achieved against all odds. Nothing was given to them. They have had to work their way up the rankings.

All said - joaco you need to learn more about tennis. You need to understand the qualities of a champion and what it takes to win a tournament. many have the talent but only a few have the ex-factor. Find out what that ex-factor is!

Cybelle Darkholme
May 3rd, 2002, 03:15 PM
This thread is so three years ago. The Williams sisters are on tour to compete, not look for friends. I'm sure they have friends already. Were Dennis Rodman and Michael Jordan friends? Venus addressed this point herself way back in 1997 and she had it dead on.

This is a sport, a competition not a tea party. Also during 1997 Venus played a girl during the us open who said she was so impressed with Venus' confidence and self belief and wished she had the same.

I mean really wouldn't you want your daughter to have the same level of confidence to suceed and stand on her own?

Bright Red
May 3rd, 2002, 03:39 PM
Just about everyone agrees that Venus is the best player on the planet. Do you honestly expect her to disagree with the whole world?:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

QueenO
May 3rd, 2002, 03:50 PM
Lets talk about the background of some these European players I'm sure none of them come from less than humble beginnings :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

irma
May 3rd, 2002, 03:54 PM
from what I heard Martina comes from a rather poor background but then her mother married a dentist and moved to switserland and so the poor days were over(no attack martina fans, this is what I read)

ot1962
May 3rd, 2002, 04:04 PM
Joaco,

Can i presume that you are not concerned about the way they were treated when they started playing on the TOUR???

Well i will look forward to a NEW MEANINGFUL thread from headed something like... "Why were the Williams sisters treated BADLY on the TOUR???". Please go ahead and convince us of your balanced viewpoint.

Oh, Volcana's challenge is still waiting...
Looking forward to reading your responses and new thread:wavey:

joaco
May 3rd, 2002, 11:12 PM
Everything you have said so far, has changed my point of view, specially the lasts replies. I think you're right, I did not explain myself clearly.
There are some things I'd like to answer, that I do not try to provoque any Williams fans in a fight, since I'm a Lindsay fan I would not like that to happen. I also believe that a person' s background is what makes the person itself, so yes, I think that he/she should act according to where they've come from.
And this is what I didn't explain, I think that Venus and Serena should be like low profiled. I mean, they should be extremely proud of what they've accomplished, but still be more of a Monica or Lindsay stile.
Maybe I just don't get them, they can do whatever they want with their lives, but this is just what I think. Volcana, you're right. I need to give some examples to back my opinion, still I believe many coments are made out of jealousy:

Venus Williams, crashed into Irina Spirlea during a jointly deliberate bump on a changeover at the U.S. Open (this created a lot crashes, but I think it was over reaction)

Serena Williams (after losing 4-6, 7-5, 6-3 in the acrimonious French fourth round to Sanchez Vicario): "Every time I see her play a match, she argues about almost every call." Sanchez Vicario: "She shows no respect at all. She cannot come with that attitude. I'm glad I beat her. I teach her a lesson."


In an early-round match at the French, Venus Williams blasted one of her nearly 120 mph serves past Ai Sugiyama, who protested she wasn't ready and was granted a re-play. Williams stared, glared, seemed to say something (which apparently was: "You ready NOW?" according to a courtside photographer), then blasted an even faster delivery by her helpless opponent. "That's the way she is. That's her style. I don't ask her to change. I just think she is better off being nicer," Sugiyama says.

"I played bad, really bad. But if she [Nejedly] was playing somebody else, she would have won." Serena Williams on a bad day

But upon joining the tour, the Williams sisters, according to Pierce, "acted like nobody else existed, like they held some kind of titles."
MArtina also has had plenty of problems with both sister.

I know, they are old stuff but there is a clear example:
2000 Wimbledon, when Venus beat Lindsay in the final, Venus and Richard started doing a dance. Some say she declined, but still I think she did the dance. I know that Venus was very happy, and that she can do whatever she wants to, but that's disrespectfull to the other. This theme was treated over and over, so I don't want to bring it back, it's just another reason.

I don't want to make any bad discussion about this, I only gave my fundaments. Anyway, I know these are old articles so they have changed a lot. I only posted them so maybe you could undesrtand my last point of view.
Because of the last replies I realized Venus and Serena are completely different the way they started on the tour. I'm sorry if someone miss understood what I tried to say, hope I made it more clear.

Joaco

QueenO
May 3rd, 2002, 11:38 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

deftman
May 3rd, 2002, 11:49 PM
Yes they do have some superiority complex about themselves ,but that is necessary.
I mean if you dont think you are better than the opponent onthe other side of the court who will?
However ,they've not openly spoken or bragged about it,and you have to give them credit for it.
Even if you feel you're the best,or want to feel like the best to boost yourself,it would be probably if you kept things to yourself ,unlike the Williams and Hingis during the past.

CC
May 4th, 2002, 12:07 AM
Joaco, please don't put people in a box like that.

treufreund
May 4th, 2002, 12:15 AM
The media and tennis establishment have been hard at work selling an image of the Williams as some sort of supergod mavericks arising from grinding poverty. Joaco is merely pointing out some things which he finds contradictory. He is not attacking or being insulting so please respect his rights.:)

Kart
May 4th, 2002, 12:20 AM
joaco mate :), you have some of my sympathy because you tried to start a serious discussion and many of the people here preferred to just be rude to you which is a bit unnecessary.

That said, as you said in your first post you pointed out that the Williams sisters had changed a lot so I'm not entirely sure what your point is ...

If I were you I'd just cut my losses and give up on this thread, if you prefer not to then well, good luck :).

Cybelle Darkholme
May 4th, 2002, 12:21 AM
You must seriously be on something if you think any of what you mentioned amounts to anything.

First during the 97 us open irina said that she was the one who purposefully collided with Venus just to see if she would move out of the way, she didn't. During her interview venus said that she wasn't paying attention and that the collision was an accident. Little did she know that Irina did it on purpose. So tell me where is your condemnation for irina?

Blasting your serve is trying to win a point, what is she supposed to do put in a 65mph cream puff for ai to hammer away? whatever.

That episode with asv and serena happened when she was 16! Hmm maybe you were a perfect 16 year old, right? I'm sure you never yelled at anyone, right? Once again, whatever.

Seems to me you took all this from the curry article someone posted on the board. Why didn't you pick out all the incidents on martina, or anna, or any number of girls who were mentioned? In fact the williams sisters, if you look at their interviews always spoke about their games, what they needed to do, because frankly it didnt matter to them who they were playing only their execution, which is exactly what does matter.

The tennis world quite frankly weren't ready for two well spoken and level headed girls who didn't need anything from the tour or press or fellow athletes. They got what they needed from their mother and father and avoided all the pit falls other teenage tennis pros fell into. The media can't bait them, the other atheletes really dont concern them, and thats how you raise two champions without them selfdestructing into burnouts.

okay im done ranting.:kiss:

Shouldn't they be more down-to-earth instead of believing themselves more than the other player.

To answer your question, no. They should be who they are. Also who wouldnt want their daughter to believe in herself? You act like its something wrong to believe you are a better player than someone else. Thats like saying a math professor should not believe he is a better mathematician than a truck driver with no education. That makes no sense. You see what the sisters have done is take away the bs. Like Venus once said, she is not here to make the other players feel better about themselves. She is not here to pat them on the back. Venus is not their mother, she's their competition.

If those players need validation for their game from the competition then they have lost half the battle. Venus and Serena are sure of themselves because their parents instilled that belief. Maybe some of the girls need to get a dose of self belief from a spice girls "girl-power" album, but VandS got theirs from home.

CC
May 4th, 2002, 12:21 AM
We know he has his rights, but what he seems to be saying is that a person's attitude should reflect his/her environment. Thus, if someone comes from the ghetto then he shouldn't think highly of himself at all. There's little logic to that.

treufreund
May 4th, 2002, 12:37 AM
To me it sounds like you are reading that into his posts. Is that defensiveness or sensitivity around this issue? I think he was trying to say they got out of the ghetto and then act like they are better than others. Not the same as having confidence in yourself. I am not saying he is totally right but I think you misunderstood him.

as for cybelle you make some good points. On the other hand I would not want to give examples to you because you are coming from a pro Williams bias so it would be highly highly unlikely that you would even accept any of the examples. I mean if you agree with him you probably would not be a Williams fan. Just like if I believed all the crap and spin on Martina I would not be her fan. But I hardly bother to respond any more to these people since they are not open-minded.

BigTennisFan
May 4th, 2002, 01:04 AM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

CC
May 4th, 2002, 01:06 AM
I also believe that a person' s background is what makes the person itself, so yes, I think that he/she should act according to where they've come from.

Perhaps I shouldn't read this literally then. What if a person came from an affluent background and acted like they were better than everyone else. Still wouldn't be right in Joaco's eyes, I hope. So maybe he should have left the ghetto issue out of it, because it makes it seem as if that alone makes them doubly wrong for the "better than everyone attitude." The truth is, no one should behave like that, or put people down.

Is that defensiveness or sensitivity around this issue?
Not on my part. Just trying to reason logically.

EGYPT
May 4th, 2002, 01:19 AM
QUOTE]I also believe that a person' s background is what makes the person itself, so yes, I think that he/she should act according to where they've come from. [/QUOTE] :fiery: :fiery: :fiery:

Sorry, but you are making my blood boil here - Supermeross hit the nail on the head. Just because you are come from a poor financial background (do they actually come from a poor background or is it assumed that because they are black they came from a poor background – someone please confirm for me) it doesn't mean that you have to be more humble than the next person. If you are good at what you do, why should you not be proud of the fact and state it at every opportunity- in my view we are all good at something. :)

If you win a grand slam, why shouldn't you celebrate? . One would hope that the Lindsay, while feeling down at the time would fully understand her opponent’s happiness because she too was striving for the same goal. If she cannot then it is Lindsay with the problem. If your best friend won the lottery and was dancing around like a nutter, would you be happy for them or feel that they were being insensitive because they were now rich and you were not- think about it.

I think your comment regarding where a person comes from and how they should act is one held by some of the said players. There is obviously some feeling that the sisters should have acted in a more humble manner. My question is WHY – The sisters are talented, proud, confident of their own ability and intelligent (both sisters have continued their education). If their opponent’s feel that having come from a particular ‘stereotypical’ background, that the sisters shouldn’t have these attributes then they are the ones with the problem.

If the sisters win – good for them, if they don’t want’t to talk to the other players- it is their prerogative. The other players should and it seems have left them to it.


Just to point out, I am not a member of the Williams Appreciation Society, but I can appreciate how some people seem to have a problem when you don’t fit their stereotype - it seems to throw them off balance and they then start attacking you.

Sorry for the length, but once I started to type, I just had to say my piece - it must be my background he he!!!!!.
:drool: :drool: :drool:

Cybelle Darkholme
May 4th, 2002, 01:20 AM
Sure I'm a williams fan, but that doesn't mean Im incapable of being impartial or objective.

I'm was fan of oj but guess what, I still think he did it. So if i can maintain an objective eye in light of that I think i can maintain the same in regards to venus and serena.

You see I know the difference between arrogance and confidence. I also know what its like to work in corporate america and guess what, its not a very hospitable place. I'm sure the tennis circuit isn't that hospitable either. You see the williams sisters didn't jump through the "sororiety" hoops of the WTA veterans. They didn't respond to the "hazing" that the tour puts new players through.

Has Venus or Serena made mistakes? Sure who hasn't? I'm sure when serena went off on asv at the french that she in hindsight could've handled it differently, but then again maybe not. The point is that just because you argue or lose it doesn't make you some horrible person. It makes you human.

So please find something that would demonstrate that the williams sisters are just horrible people to cause such animosity. I swear even the tennis player I dislike the most(jennifer capriati) I am sure is a decent person who means well.


Okay I'm thinking that maybe you just don't understand where Venus and Serena are coming from. So here in the spirit of understanding I will post some of their quotes to help you see their point of view:
1997 lipton
Q. Since she's No. 1, are you interested to see how you measure against her? Will you measure yourself and your progress?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I measure myself against myself. I would never measure myself against someone else. I feel that I'm the best, okay? That's just how I feel. Even if it wasn't true, that I can feel that way, it makes you play better, makes you have more pride about what you're doing, saying, "I'm the best player out here, why am I losing, pull it together." What was the question you asked?


Q. Venus, you know a lot of comparisons have been drawn between you and Jennifer. Do you think beating her maybe validates the way you and your family have managed your career, to come along more slowly, build up?

VENUS WILLIAMS: It probably isn't the path for everyone because everyone probably needs to go out there and play matches and get confidence. But as for me, it was a path. It just shows that there is an alternative way, rather than playing juniors, junior Slams, satellites, whatever they do, I wasn't there. It probably does. I wouldn't say beating Jennifer does that because Jennifer is obviously on her way back. You can see that out there today. She's doing real well. I don't think that beating her validates that.


Q. Do you ever feel nervous when you walk out onto a court, or the bigger the crowd, does that give you more encouragement?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I like big crowds. I suppose everyone feels a little nervous sometimes on the court. Usually I try to hit through that or ignore. If you lose a match because you were nervous, at the end all you can say is, "I was nervous, I lost." That's a sad thing. I don't want to ever have to say that. It's different when you first start your career or haven't been there. Obviously, I haven't played that many matches. Under 30, there's no reason for that, I feel.

1997 erricsson
Q. When you're playing seeds like Lindsay, does anything intimidate you at all, any player intimidate you?

VENUS WILLIAMS: No. I'm really not intimidated on the court, no.


1997 us open
Q. When you see where Martina Hingis is at very close to your age, do you think if you had played more, in more tournaments at age 15, 14, you would be close to where she is now? Do you look at her and say, "Gee, I could be there"?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Well, I really can't say, but I really wouldn't want to take anything away from Martina, because she's doing a great job and she's helping women's tennis, and everyone is interested in watching her play. I definitely think I like the way I did things. We just had different agendas. I had different things to do. She had different things to do also. I don't regret any of it. To say what I could have done, I'd rather not say that because that's in the past now. I can't change it. I'm happy with how everything is going now.

Q. What was the key to today's match?

VENUS WILLIAMS: This time I was really ready. The last time I played her, I really thought I was going to win, but I didn't pull that one out. This time I felt the same way also. Not because Anke isn't a good player. I was just feeling good about it is way I was playing. I sort of believe in me. I'm not trying to take anything away from Anke because she's playing good tennis. She's taking out big people these days. She's playing Top 10 tennis. She has a Top 10 ranking. She's doing well.

Q. Are you surprised at your success so far here in the Open? Are you surprised with your age at your success here?

VENUS WILLIAMS: No. I know I can play well. A lot of times I just don't play well in the matches. A lot of times I'm just not able to pull it out, not able to stay calm, not able to stay focused. I make a lot of mistakes, which I did for about a two-game period in the first set. But I just had to bear down and say, "Man, I can't do these things. Time when you have to move on. It's a time when these things have to stop." I said, "Venus, it's foolishness." I became aware of my surroundings (laughter). No just kidding.

Q. Venus, can you reflect in the first set, I think the game score was 2-2, and you were up Love-40 and you lost the game. What thought process did you go through at that point?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Well, I'm really not one of those players who gets angry after a game like that. I really don't go back in time. You know, some players, they can't stop thinking about that game, can't stop thinking about it. I'm really not that type of player. I just kind of move on because it's in the past; nothing I can do about it. I have to move on. So I just was staying calm, and I had to just play well and just not let up, because she's been out there a long time playing matches, and she really will take an advantage and run away with it if given the chance. So I just have to stay in there.

Q. In general, do you detect any kind of hostility from older players toward younger players? And if so, how do you detect it? What do you pick up?

VENUS WILLIAMS: These things do not matter to me. Everyone has to have their own opinion. I can't change the way someone feels. I just kind of have to move on in my own life. I can't get involved in other people's lives to that degree.

Q. Can you describe what it is about your game that forces more experienced players to get nervous, sometimes tense up and get out of their games?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I don't know. I think you would have to ask them, more or less. I really don't know what they are feeling out there.

Q. Venus, ever since you were a little girl, I should say, and not playing the juniors, people have been wondering about you and waiting to see just how good you are. Do you feel likee right now you've shown that You've said everybody has to worry about themselves. Do you feel at this point that you've shown everybody just how good you are?

VENUS WILLIAMS: In the past, I really didn't worry about what other people thought because it was important what I thought, what my family thought. So I really didn't focus on that. Everyone has their own opinion. They're going to have it. I'm not going to change it. So I definitely knew that one day people would see, and I would just -- it would just be a little bit of time. I hadn't played that much. So, I guess this is just a great tournament for me. Maybe a fraction of the talk will stop.

Q. You had these two tiebreakers. If you hadn't been able to win, people might say, "She's not match tough, she hasn't put the years in on the junior circuit, she's not match tough mentally." Where do you get this from? Where do you have that if you haven't played as many matches?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I think there's a lot of myths floating around. When I'm in practice, especially the last three, four weeks before the tournament, two or three weeks, whatever it was, I tried to stay focused in the match because a lot of times I wasn't doing that. I think a lot of people believe you have to be match tough and things like that. You just have to know how to play and you have to believe that you can do it. You just have to go out there and do it. So some people, they might need to be match tough. For others, I don't know. But I do agree that you have to play a little bit. I haven't had to play that much because I can tell you, like a year ago, like when I first started playing, I looked back and said, "I didn't know what to do." I just didn't know. But it hasn't taken me long to learn. Hasn't taken me many matches. A lot of people, it depends on who you are, how you look at it maybe.

Q. Most of the match, or all the match, you displayed a very mature composure. Could you likely tell us who advised you about that? Where did you learn it?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I don't know. I think it's just the way I am. A lot of players are cool and composed. Some players are fiery and angry. It's just me, I guess. I mean, a lot of times, like in the past, if I won a point or a game, I would start smiling. Kind of got unfocused. I had to quit the smiling for this moment now. Maybe in the future I can start doing that some more. Focused people come back on you. I don't know what hit me. In the future, I'll start smiling more. I did it like three tournaments ago. It wasn't working for me. I'd get unfocused. Now I keep my straight face.

Q. No. I'm saying it seems to like some degree the press here in New York City has to some degree said you are somewhat arrogant.

VENUS WILLIAMS: Everybody has their own feelings, the way they see things.

Q. I'm saying, is it confidence, does it have to do with the fact that you're an African American?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I think it has something to do with people are finding something to pick with.

Q. Your father is also quoted by the Associated Press by saying you have experienced racism on The Tour. Could you comment on that?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I really -- I don't think that's even part of it right now. I don't want to answer that question.

Q. Venus, are you disagreeing with your father then? Because he has definitely charged that there's racism. He told the bumping was a racist incident, the whole attitude here, racism. Are you disagreeing with that?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I think with this moment in the first year in Arthur Ashe Stadium, it all represents everyone being together, everyone being -- having a chance to play. So I think this is definitely ruining the mood, these questions about racism.

Q. Your father didn't have to comment yesterday.

VENUS WILLIAMS: You didn't have to bring it up.

1998 lipton
Q. Part of what you do is you make a lot of money. It's not the most important thing, but it's a part of it. Does it give you security? Does it give you perspective for your future long-term or is it not in the picture at all?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I think that generally you're able to live more comfortably financially, but you aren't always happy. I don't think money can make anyone happy. I think sometimes people think so, but in the end it's not so. To have a family, being happy doing what you're doing, having fun, those things. Most of all right now, I I'm trying to get my ranking together. I'm thinking about the points. I try to stop thinking about the points. At the end of the tournament I add them up. That's my goal.


1997 usopen

Q. Joannette says you're confident. She said she's never seen such self-confidence.

VENUS WILLIAMS: I'm glad she sees that in me.

Q. Yesterday Lindsay said when you were at Indian Wells, you passed each other, and you didn't smile back to her, and she got upset when you did not smile back.

VENUS WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. Are you talking about passing on the court?

Q. No, Venus. I'm talking before your match. Just bear with me a moment.

VENUS WILLIAMS: Okay.

Q. Take a moment to explain. She got a little peeved by that, and that motivated her. Then today, Ms. Kruger said that when you smiled at her at one of the changeovers, she said that that was a sign that you were saying, "Hey, this is all you can do? This is all the arsenal you have? "

VENUS WILLIAMS: I smiled at her at one of the changeovers?

Q. That's what she said. Do you recall smiling at her at all?

VENUS WILLIAMS: No. It was an amused look.

Q. Pardon?

VENUS WILLIAMS: No, I really wasn't smiling. I was (indicating). Why don't you guys tell me what they want me to do? They should come up to me and say, "Venus, I want you to smile so I can feel better." It's not about that. When I want to smile, I'll smile. If I don't want to, I'm not going to. I think it's a little bit peevish. Smiling, what does that have to do with anything?

Q. Do you think people are finding reasons to nitpick at you right now?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I don't care. They have feelings and they can feel whatever way they want to, but I don't want to be part of it.

Q. To be fair, she said that you had tremendous confidence, and that was a tremendous attribute of yours. That was her essential -- what she was essentially saying. Do you feel that's one of your greatest strengths, your confidence?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Yes. Because I just kind of feel that I can make any shot anywhere on the court. That's just the way I feel.

Q. The day before yesterday, I believe, you answered my question about Challengers. You said that second set was always the challenge that you had to overcome. You almost cracked in this second set.

VENUS WILLIAMS: No, I didn't.

Q. You didn't think so?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I think it was much tougher, but I wasn't cracking, no. She definitely pulled her game together, definitely started taking her time a little bit more on the shots, getting them a little bit deeper, placing them a little bit better. So I was running over the court more in the second set. I guess I didn't think she would start playing that well, so I just had to get ready for that.

Q. You said the confidence comes from knowing you have the shots. How old were you, do you think, or how young were you, when you really started feeling that way?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I always felt that way. I always felt that I could beat like the men players. My parents could never get me to understand that I couldn't. I was like, "Look at my backhand, it's better than theirs." Finally they stopped trying to convince me I wasn't better. I guess they thought, "If she thinks that, it's better."

Q. Is that you in general or is that in tennis?

VENUS WILLIAMS: That's me in general, yeah.

Q. How much do you enjoy others recognizing that confidence in you?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think it's important that others recognize the confidence in me or believe in me. What's important is that I'm confident about me, and that I believe in me. What others believe is kind of an outside influence, outside. If I don't have confidence, then it doesn't matter if the other person has confidence in me.

Q. But it seems you really have an effect on your opponents. In fact, Joannette Kruger, who is 23 years old, said just by watching your confidence and the panache that you had on the court, she was psyched out.

VENUS WILLIAMS: That's her state of mind.

Q. Do you feel as though you psych out other players with your approach?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I don't know. You'd have to ask them.

Q. What's your belief?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Not sharing those today.

Q. Joannette said she was intimidated by playing in the stadium. Have you ever felt anything like that?

VENUS WILLIAMS: No. I like it. I always liked it. I liked it when I was little when I wasn't professional. I always liked to play on big courts in front of people. It's kind of my asset.

Q. The fact that the audience was with you today, does it matter for you?

VENUS WILLIAMS: The fact that the audience was for me?

Q. Yes. Does it matter for you?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I've actually never played in an audience that wasn't for me. One day, the day will come when they are going to be for the other player. I'll be prepared for that.

Q. Venus, do you think your performance, to a sense, validates all the attention that you've been getting before putting up results like this?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I guess for some people it does; not for me. I know I can play this type of tennis. But for some people, critics, writers, all those type of things, it validates it for them. But I try not to read that stuff and listen to the stuff, because it can get to you. Some people are not necessarily negative, but they say Venus is a big question mark, things like that. You don't really want to read that. Oh, no, I better play better. That's not the kind of thoughts you want in your head, so I kind of try to stay away from them.



I could post more, but why bother. If this can't show you why we are fans of venus ebonne star williams, then nothing else can. These are the comments of a 17year old girl on her first full year on tour. Please, tell me whats not to love and admire?

Cybelle Darkholme
May 4th, 2002, 02:07 AM
bump

Pureracket
May 4th, 2002, 02:28 AM
cybelle,
You have outdone yourself. I have never seen a point so validated by such clear evidence. Actually, I'm more of a fan of Venus' now because of your post. I especially liked:


"Q. Your father didn't have to comment yesterday.

VENUS WILLIAMS: You didn't have to bring it up."

Also, don't be discouraged by the fact that some people consider you a limited poster because of your fondness for Venus. As my grandmother (RIP) used to say, "Keep on keeping on."

Pureracket
May 4th, 2002, 02:32 AM
CC,
Nice post.

Infiniti2001
May 4th, 2002, 02:58 AM
It's just so tiresome the way "some" try to prove what vile, rude, arrogant, offensive human beings the Williames are by posting newspaper articles where their behavior has been filtered through other players interpretations or allegations- or through a columnist's slant.

I think people have been so forcefed negative things about them that they can't see the forest for the trees. Some of them so want to change Venus and her sister to make them better :rolleyes:



http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/bischoff/239/d835e640.gif
Go Serena :P

Pureracket
May 4th, 2002, 02:59 AM
*Clocker picks the thread up on his shoulders and BUMPS it to the top*

Cybelle Darkholme
May 4th, 2002, 03:45 AM
Thanks clocker and inifiniti, you two have it right. It just dumbfounds me that others judge people based on some other person's perceptions! Its like why dont they go check out the source and see the truth for themselves?

HEAVYHITTER
May 4th, 2002, 08:44 AM
Dayum Cybe, you destroyed Joaco with this post.

Wow, I have, yet another, brand new respect for Venus.

Volcana
May 4th, 2002, 01:26 PM
joaco - Look at the examples you gave carefully.

I'm going to extract all the things you listed that Venus or Serena actually did or said, leaving out all the stuff that just some person saying 'I don't like them'.

Venus Williams, crashed into Irina Spirlea during a jointly deliberate bump on a changeover at the U.S. Open.

* Irina Spirlea herself, after the incident, said she (Irina) deliberately didn't move out of Venus's path. I read the article that called it 'jointly deliberate' too, but I was also around at the time of the incident. Irina was perfectly happy to claim credit for initiating contact.

Serena Williams (after losing 4-6, 7-5, 6-3 in the acrimonious French fourth round to Sanchez Vicario): "Every time I see her play a match, she argues about almost every call."

* Arantxa DOES argue a bit on court. There's nothing rude or abusive about Serena's staement.

Sanchez Vicario: "She shows no respect at all. She cannot come with that attitude. I'm glad I beat her. I teach her a lesson."

* Not something Venus or Serena said or did

In an early-round match at the French, Venus Williams blasted one of her nearly 120 mph serves past Ai Sugiyama, who protested she wasn't ready and was granted a re-play. Williams stared, glared, seemed to say something (which apparently was: "You ready NOW?" according to a courtside photographer), then blasted an even faster delivery by her helpless opponent.

* A courtside photographer interprets a LOOK of Venus's. What has Venus done wrong in this incident besides serve the ball? Acing the opponent is not rude, merely effective.

"That's the way she is. That's her style. I don't ask her to change. I just think she is better off being nicer," Sugiyama says.

* Not something Venus or Serena said or did

"I played bad, really bad. But if she [Nejedly] was playing somebody else, she would have won." Serena Williams on a bad day

* Other than being true, what's the problem? If Nejedly were playing most of the tour and the opponent played that badly, she would have won.

But upon joining the tour, the Williams sisters, according to Pierce, "acted like nobody else existed, like they held some kind of titles."

* Not something Venus or Serena said or did

Martina also has had plenty of problems with both sister.

* Not something Venus or Serena said or did

I know, they are old stuff but there is a clear example:
2000 Wimbledon, when Venus beat Lindsay in the final, Venus and Richard started doing a dance. Some say she declined, but still I think she did the dance.

* If you saw Wimbledon 2000, you KNOW Venus wasn't dancing with Richard. If you didn't see it, how can you have a belief about it one way or the other?

Now go read Cybelle's list of Venus quotes from 1997. She makes a vastly better case FOR Venus than you do against her. To me, Venus has always been the kind of person I'd want a daughter to grow up to be like (except I'd want my daughter to be a scientist or an engineer, not an athlete).

CC
May 4th, 2002, 03:15 PM
Thanks Clocker. :)

joaco
May 4th, 2002, 05:28 PM
Hi CC, Sybelle & Volcana! Been reading your last replies carefully. thanks. I mean it.
You were one of the only Williams fans that understood what my post was about. You gave me the answer very explicitly with Venus interviews, now I can understand her way of thinking. She simply doesn't care what others think. Maybe that was something I could not understand.
You also treated me with complete objectivity, not attaking or anything, so I think I get to know better things in a good way, reather than a bad way :)
BTW: Noone destroyed my post, they just answered it ;)
Ahhh! and if you need to know ANYTHING about Lindsay, just ask me...

CC
May 4th, 2002, 06:09 PM
Ok Joaco.:)

HEAVYHITTER
May 4th, 2002, 06:59 PM
Glad to see you now have clarity.

Volcana
May 4th, 2002, 07:07 PM
joaco - Just a couple Lindsay questions.

How far along is Lindsay in her recovery? is she on the court yet? Can she run yet? Why was she out so long? I had thought this was just torn cartilege. Was the injury worse? Will she be able to play grass court events at all, or will her return be delayed all the way to American hard court season?

joaco
May 4th, 2002, 09:38 PM
How far along is Lindsay in her recovery? is she on the court yet? Can she run yet? Why was she out so long? I had thought this was just torn cartilege. Was the injury worse? Will she be able to play grass court events at all, or will her return be delayed all the way to American hard court season?

As long as we fans know, Lindsay is recovering very well, but slowly. She has started practicing and jogging after the NASDAQ Open. About the operation, it was a difficult one, the knee is very delicated, so the doctors and Lindsay are trying not to force it before time so that nothing happens. She is schedules to play Eastbourne, a tournament a week before Wimbledon. We all hope she can play there. If she can't be there for any reason, she will play sure 100% the American hardcourt season.
Joaco

Informative
May 5th, 2002, 01:29 AM
Not only is this thread absurd and silly but the poster is ignorant, condescending, inaccurate, superficial, patronizing, and disingenuous/dishonest. It's just another useless thread which seeks to hold Venus and Serena to an entirely different standard than everyone else. Many others on this thread have already responded to you in an intelligent and accurate manner with regard to your utterly baseless charges, yet you continue the b.s. about "not understanding" or "having difficulty" knowing why "the williams sisters act in the ways they do. This is an old, tired cliched routine you're using and it won't work. As others have also pointed out this is just a cowardly way of bashing Venus & Serena for no discernible reason and then (very) transparently pretending that you're not. Stop lying and lecturing others about "humility" and "correct behavior." Venus and Serena don't owe you (or anyone else) a defense of their on and offcourt demeanor. They have absolutely NOTHING to be ashamed of or contrite about. If you don't like them, fine. That's your personal prerogative But don't try to hoodwink the rest of us with this fake-naive posture of not 'understanding' why these formerly poor black girls don't know their place or are not always smiling and playing humble-pie when they compete. Give me a break! Enough of this nonsense... [Informative rolls his eyes as well...}

HEAVYHITTER
May 5th, 2002, 05:23 AM
bump!

Well said Informative.