View Full Version : When is a player considered a journeywoman?

May 2nd, 2002, 10:51 PM
Would Anna be considered a journeywoman? She has been on the tour for 6 years without a singles title. Or does winning a few doubles title keep her from being a journeywoman?

When I think of a journeywoman, I think of someone who just goes from tournament to tournament with no real chance of winning. Their ranking is kind of so-so. They are capable of an upset here or there but are never really a threat to win a title or a grand slam.

Does anyone have thoughts on this subject?:)

May 2nd, 2002, 11:28 PM
IŽd agree with your definition. Although I think that Anna ranks as one of the best doubles players of the last decade, so I think that might exclude her from being labelled as so.

Martian Martin
May 3rd, 2002, 12:20 AM
I think it's stupid to label Anna a journey woman. You can only be named a journey woman, if you are over 25 say, never really a contender for titles and your best days are behind you. Anna's best days are ahead of her, despite her going through a bad time of it just now.

May 3rd, 2002, 09:17 AM
I have always wondered what "journeywoman" really meant in terms of a tennis player.

I remember I used to hear Amy Frazier be called that. Her ranking has dipped now but for many years she has travelled alone and without a coach.

But she always hovered just in or outside the top twenty, so she has always played well enough to make decent money and sneak in a tournament win or two.

I guess some "journeywomen" are better than others. If you were to ask Amy, she would probably say she has had a great career, even though in my mine I have always felt she was top ten and I think even top five material.

Anna is still young yet so she still has a chance to be a great tennis player.....

May 3rd, 2002, 09:55 AM
I agree with Martin apart from the bit about Anna's best day's being ahead of her.

I don't wish ill on Anna and I hope that she does recover but I think it's going to be very hard for her now.

Not only is she going to struggle to get amongst the current lot of top players but there's also a lot of younger up and coming players that she's going to have to contend with as well.

I just think these youngsters are hungrier for it then Anna.

Anna can quit the game tomorrow and not have to worry about her financial future.

May 3rd, 2002, 10:03 AM
I don't think you have to be 'over 25' to be considered a 'journeywoman'.

I'd consider someone like Srebotnik say, maybe a journeywoman. She's under 25 AND has a singles title this year. I also don't think your best days have to be behind you for you to be labelled as such.

On the whole I think Rayny sums it up pretty well, but whether it includes Anna. I don't think it does. Yet. Let's see what the rest of this year brings her.

May 3rd, 2002, 03:48 PM
I once read an article a couple of years ago that called Jan Micheal Gambill a journeyman when he beat Hewitt at Wimbledon. :rolleyes:

Williams Rulez
May 3rd, 2002, 03:53 PM
I know this is not answering the question but... I think an example of a journey woman would be some one like Nichole Pratt, quite good, makes an exception performance occassionally, but never quite makes the grade of a top league player.

May 3rd, 2002, 04:27 PM
i used to think of farina-elia as the classic journeywoman until she improved her consistency and leapt from the 30-70 range to the top-20. Just shows what marriage can do for a girl. ;)

I'd now say that classic journeywomen include in singles :


These are women who always seem to rank between 25 and 50, who rarely make it to the quarter finals of Tier I and Tier II events, pose a minor threat to the very top players but never get it together, but somehow win enough matches to prevent them from being lower than, say, 60 - players ranked 60 to 100 tend to lose 1st round most of the time, but get hot in one or two small events and reach the quarter and semi-finals there, earning a couple of hundred points. They're also journeywomen, but less notable as they mainly play Tier III and Tier IV and lose early in Grand Slams.


May 3rd, 2002, 04:55 PM
lol I never thought about finding a definition for journeywoman! IMO it's just an expression!

May 3rd, 2002, 06:27 PM
A journey woman is a woman that makes a journey.

OK...that scores a 10 on the lame-o-meter :rolleyes:

Anyway...I define a journeywoman (or man) as someone that has been around for a while (age really isnt an issue, but usually around 23+) and has never really had much success but continues to plow on.

My example is 24 year old Aussie Cindy Watson. Battled for years on the ITF circuit with limited success (had the occassional good result) and came good at this years Aus Open reaching the 3rd round. So mostly the seasoned challenger circuit players are the journeywomen in my eyes ;)

May 3rd, 2002, 07:49 PM
Ms Kournikova is not a journeywoman. A journeywoman by definition is a player who players ALOT of tournaments to make a living but never getting past the 1st or 2nd round.

We all know Kournikova ranks in the top 5 on both atp/wta tours when it comes to earning for the year

May 3rd, 2002, 08:54 PM
I don't think a player ranked as high as 8, on the wtatour can be called a Journey women.

May 4th, 2002, 05:36 AM
Elena Likhovtseva - the most classic example of journeywoman. Tatiana Panova.

I remember an interview with Yevgeny after he won Sydney Olympics, and he said that most of WTA Tour are jorneywomen and only few players have any chance of winning anything big, the rest is just travelling. Speaking of her fellow Olympic medal winner Dementieva he said that he thought she could become one of those few. That's the part of his statement where he probably was not right..:(

May 4th, 2002, 03:39 PM
A journeyman/woman is pretty much someone who hovers around the 100s or 200s, occasionally pops into the main draw of a WTA event and wins a rare match, but is pretty much stuck in qualifying WTA events and challengers. Here are my picks

Men-Scott Humphries, Justin Gimelstob
Women-Mashona Washington, Denisa Chladkova, Shinobu Asagoe, Tracy Singian