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View Full Version : Best player to have never Won a Slam: Elena D vs Amelie


DEETHELICK
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Jon Wertheim recently said in his eyes, he moved Elena D above Amelie after Fed Cup as the best player to have not won a Slam.

Initially, I didn't agree, but after reviewing their current positions, maybe Jon isn't too off the mark.

1) H2H - Elena has evened up to 5 a piece, defeating Amelie 3 times in a row in 3 very important tournaments.

2) Elena has reached more GS finals and has reached them in the last few years (Amelie reached one slam final in 1999).

3) Amelie's game today is not as effective as it can be. Elena is a hard hitter extraordinaire, with the perfect physique for today's game. Her flatter shots and power have helped her defeat a range of the top players over the past few years.

However:

4) Amelie has been No. 1, a reflection of her success, consistency and talent.

5) Amelie has many more titles, of a higher status.

Finally:

6) Mental toughness is a very good indicator of Slam Champ material. many would agree that Elena D is more mentally tough than Amelie.

What do you think? Based on RECENT performances, today's competitor's and their game styles, who is more likely to win a Slam. Is Elena now the best player to have never won a Slam after her rousing victories in Fed Cup?

:)

wateva
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:23 PM
after watching her fed cup matches, i'll have to say elena is the better player. she fought so hard for every point and really did very well considering her weak serve. if she continues hitting like that for all her tournaments, a slam win isn't that far away!

Maryamator
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:26 PM
elena d for sure btw i think u should make a poll

DEETHELICK
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:30 PM
There you go :)

Maryamator
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:31 PM
thanx :)

SloKid
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:33 PM
Yeah a poll would be nice. I think Lena D is the best player not to have won a slam. I think Amelie lacks the mental toughness for the big time games, but that was also said about Kim prior to this years US Open. But Lena is a fighter and if nothing else her matches are always dramatic and fun to watch. When Lena losses it is usually in a real battle (of nerves), Amelie sometimes looks just plain horrible in her losses (esp. in the Slams).

No Name Face
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:41 PM
LenaD. It's hard to think about how successful she could be if she could win that one extra match. Realistically, she could be a 2 time GS champion, a Gold Medalist in the Olympics, she could have won at least 3 Tier 1 titles...it's hard to comprehend sometimes. I think that with this win in Fed Cup we will see a new Elena though. She knows she was the sole reason they won the title and that must give her new confidence.

Amelie is a good player and owns almost all Russians minus LenaD --- I think that says enough about her talent. Amelie is more accomplished and has been #1 but I still feel LenaD is the better player.

SvetaPleaseWin.
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:42 PM
dementieva- is used to think amelie was the best player to never have won a slam but her game seems to be going backwards. she is mentally weak and she needs to hit with more power to live with the pace of the other top girls. dementieva seems extremely determined to win a slam and her only real weakness is the serve which is improving. she has the best forehand/backhand combination out of the top players (most have only one strong shot) and probably the best forehand along with kuznetsova.

plus dementieva's younger than mauresmo and doesnt seem to be as injured as the other top players

C.MARTINEZ
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:42 PM
Dementieva

LostGlory
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:46 PM
Amelie, she has no weaknesses in her game as severe and deadly as Elena, although I think Elena is one of the toughest players mentally taking so much pressure of her serving and going on....

-Kieron-
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:52 PM
Amelie. I think she has an amazing game when she is on, and has a shot at winning all the slams, whereas Elena will NEVER win wimbledon with that serve.

The difference is, that Elena is just mentally stonger. But I still believe Amelie will do it one day.

hablo
Sep 26th, 2005, 12:56 PM
Momo, even though Elena D has had the edge lately in slams, momo has been more consistent ...


mauresmo:
Grand Slam (singles) History
WL 05 04 03 02 01 00 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91
AUSTRALIAN OPEN 24-6 QF QF - QF 4r 2r F 3r - - - - - - -
ROLAND GARROS 19-11 3r QF QF 4r 1r 4r 2r 1r 2r 2r 1r - - - -
WIMBLEDON 18-6 SF SF - SF 3r 1r - 2r - - - - - - -
US OPEN 26-7 QF QF QF SF QF - 4r 3r - - - - - - -
= 1F, 4SF, 9QF, 4 4r
Championships History
WL 04 03 02 01 00 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91
Singles 5-6 SF F - 4r - 4r - - - - - - - -


dementieva:
Grand Slam (singles) History
WL 05 04 03 02 01 00 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91
AUSTRALIAN OPEN 11-7 4r 1r 1r 4r 3r 3r 2r - - - - - - - -
ROLAND GARROS 15-6 4r F 1r 4r 2r 2r 2r - - - - - - - -
WIMBLEDON 11-7 4r 1r 4r 4r 3r 1r 1r - - - - - - - -
US OPEN 24-7 SF F 4r 2r 4r SF 3r - - - - - - - -
= 2F, 2SF, 8 4r
Championships History
WL 04 03 02 01 00 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91
Singles 3-8 1r 1r 4r 4r SF - - - - - - - - -
Doubles - - W - - - - - - - - - - -



momo 17 career titles vs elena d 4 career titles :eek:

Both have silver medals at the olympics game: Amélie (2004), Elena D (2000) :angel:

if fed cup was deciding factor, then they would count it for ranking pts :p
(plus both have won it :bounce: )

Mauresmo leads 5-4
Rnk/Seed Year Event Surface Rnd Winner Score Rnk/Seed
34/8 1998 PRAGUE CLAY (O) R32 A. MAURESMO 6-7(5) 7-6(3) 6-1
16/10 1999 ITALIAN OPEN CLAY (O) R32 A. MAURESMO 1-6 6-3 7-5
15/6 2001 AMELIA ISLAND CLAY (O) Q A. MAURESMO
W/O 9/3
7/3 2003 PARIS CARPET (I) S A. MAURESMO 6-0 6-0
6/3 2003 TORONTO HARD (O) Q E. DEMENTIEVA 3-6 6-4 6-2
7/2 2003 MOSCOW CARPET (I) S A. MAURESMO 6-4 6-1
6/-- 2003 TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS HARD (I) R1 A. MAURESMO 6-3 6-2
3/3 2004 FRENCH OPEN CLAY (O) Q E. DEMENTIEVA 6-4 6-3
2/2 2004 US OPEN HARD (O) Q E. DEMENTIEVA 4-6 6-4 7-6(1)
4/-- 2005 FED CUP FINAL CLAY (O) R4 E. DEMENTIEVA 6-4 4-6 6-2

Helen Lawson
Sep 26th, 2005, 01:11 PM
I agree Lena D is mentally tougher, but I don't think Amelie chokes nearly as often as people claim, and Lena D has had some gag-fests as well over the years, particularly against Myskina. But more often than not, Lena D goes down swinging and never stops going for her shots, particularly at majors. That's the sign of a great champion. But Amelie can be amazingly dominant outside the majors, something Lena D can only dream of. That time Amelie was No. 1, she won a load of Tier I's that year and then made the Chase finals. And Amelie is rarely a first or very early round casualty at a major and she almost always only loses to high-quality players at majors, you don't see a tight third set against like someone barely in the Top 100 in an early round.
To me, I sort of have written off Amelie as ever winning a major, for whatever reason, either mental or inability to raise her game at crucial times, she just doesn't play her best at majors. Lena D often can.

jfk
Sep 26th, 2005, 01:26 PM
I don't think Elena is there quite yet. She needs to make a few more semis.

Amelie's GS record as shown above is in the mold of past "best players to have never one a slam." So many semifinals.

hingis-seles
Sep 26th, 2005, 01:33 PM
I feel people are still shortchanging Amelie.

It's not that the woman has performed terribly or anything. Look at her results and Lena D's results at the Slams this year. At the AO, Amelie lost to the eventual champ (in an ugly match) in the QF, while Lena D failed to close out a 4th Round match against Patty (due to the excessive heat that day). At RG, Amelie lost in a tight three-setter in the 3rd Round to Ana Ivanovic, her worst GS result since Wimbledon 2001. Lena D fell to Likhovtseva in the Round of 16 in a match she really should have won. At Wimbledon, Momo reached the semis and very nearly beat Davenport (should have!) and Lena D should have beaten Myskina but crumbled. The US Open is the only Slam Lena D outperformed Amelie. Momo lost in the quarters to Pierce and Lena lost to Pierce in the semis. Atleast Lena managed to win a set against Big Momma.

Where am I going with all this? Simply, to look at their entire season, not just the last couple of weeks. Looking at US Open and Fed Cup results, Lena is Top 5 easily, atm. But, there's a reason why it's Momo who's currently in the Top 5 and not Lena. Amelie has had a pretty decent year. Not her best. But, quite decent. I just feel many people seem to have forgotten that.

And since people seem so hot on double bagels in WTA World, Momo did defeat Lena D 6-0, 6-0 in Paris in 2002. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to take anything away from Lena D. She's already achieved so much and she has it in her to win a Slam, but Amelie isn't quite the flash in the pan everyone is making her out to be.

ys
Sep 26th, 2005, 01:40 PM
No question about it, as dearly as I love Elena D.. She is a player not nearly as accomplished as Amelie at this point.. But she is a bit younger too.. Amelie has been #1, won more Tier I tournaments than Elena won tournaments at all, Amelie is a constant presence in last 8 of Slams.. Elena reached Slam QFs what, 4 times? Does all this compensate for having one less Slam final? Surely.. And other things are not better than equal for Elena.. She has Olympic medal , but so does Amelie. Elena won FC for her country in Paris, but so did Amelie.. in Moscow...:) Elena will get there.. Or rather I hope she elimiates herself from this competition alltogether soon.. I hoep Amelie does too..:)

Scotso
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:12 PM
22-22 :o

Elena D was my vote.

TheBoiledEgg
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:16 PM
can they have a GS final to settle this ;)

go Lena, get off this list.

TonyP
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:20 PM
I think its close, but I give a slight nod to Elena, probably because I like her more. But Mauresmo has accomplished more so far and Elena's lack of a breakthrough tournament continues to be puzzling. She seems to have all the elements in place, except a reliable serve, but others have won without great serves.

Elena did score some big points, though, with her wins at Fed Cup and perhaps that will turn out to be the breakthrough tournament. We'll have to see if she can build on that at Zurich or Moscow or the year end Champions.

martirogi
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:28 PM
how can you possibly vote for lena d. amelie must have ten or twelve more career titles.

Maryamator
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:34 PM
amelie chokes at grandslams

hablo
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:38 PM
how can you possibly vote for lena d. amelie must have ten or twelve more career titles.

I'm wondering the same thing... when there were discussions to distinguish between Kim and Momo : number of tournies and better accomplishment in slams mattered :scratch: :lol:

maybe momo should get some hints from nastya in order to solve the dementieva mystery :devil:

hablo
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:39 PM
No question about it, as dearly as I love Elena D.. She is a player not nearly as accomplished as Amelie at this point.. But she is a bit younger too.. Amelie has been #1, won more Tier I tournaments than Elena won tournaments at all, Amelie is a constant presence in last 8 of Slams.. Elena reached Slam QFs what, 4 times? Does all this compensate for having one less Slam final? Surely.. And other things are not better than equal for Elena.. She has Olympic medal , but so does Amelie. Elena won FC for her country in Paris, but so did Amelie.. in Moscow...:) Elena will get there.. Or rather I hope she elimiates herself from this competition alltogether soon.. I hoep Amelie does too..:)

:bowdown:

blumaroo
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:41 PM
On paper Amelie because of her performances outside of slams and consistency.
Elene D barely has big titles with a few exceptions. Personally I like Lena D's game more. It depends on what you mean with the "best" player ofcourse. This time I choose for the stats so my vote is for Amelie.

mishar
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:59 PM
Subjectively I can understand thinking Dementieva is the better player right now, after watching their last encounters. But objectively Amelie has at this moment accomplished much much more. 14 slam quarterfinals versus 4. 16 titles versus 4.

That last one is the decider for me -- Elena has had some great wins in her career, but she's never won a Tier I title, really only one significant Tier II. Amelie has won Rome twice, Berlin twice, Canada twice

hablo
Sep 26th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Subjectively I can understand thinking Dementieva is the better player right now, after watching their last encounters. But objectively Amelie has at this moment accomplished much much more. 14 slam quarterfinals versus 4. 16 titles versus 4.

That last one is the decider for me -- Elena has had some great wins in her career, but she's never won a Tier I title, really only one significant Tier II. Amelie has won Rome twice, Berlin twice, Canada twice

17 ;)

crazyroberto6767
Sep 26th, 2005, 03:24 PM
Well, I would say Elena is the better player right now and has a larger shot at winning a major in the future. However, it's impossible to argue that Amelie is more accomplished. Her time *could* come at Wimby.

Brooks.
Sep 26th, 2005, 03:39 PM
mauresmo's career is much more impressive thus far....way more titles and most of hers are of high status...elena has had a couple of good runs in slams but mauresmo has had many more good runs...one more slam final doesnt give dementieva an edge...(especially when she has proven to be just as mentally weak in the big moments of slams)

peanuts
Sep 26th, 2005, 03:39 PM
Hmmm, interesting views from everyone. I voted for Elena mainly because of her recent results but given their over-all record its hard to disregard Amelie that easily. I think its a toss-up. However, as the poster, Helen Lawson puts it unlike Amelie, Elena more often than not goes down swinging or has more heart in playing her matches in particular in Grand Slams. This is a good sign and I think this would favor her more over Amelie in the Slams they'll have to play for the rest of their careers. But if its a question of who had a better career right now, there's no contest, Amelie wins that one. So I guess I should have voted Amelie. :lol:

Harju.
Sep 26th, 2005, 03:46 PM
I feel people are still shortchanging Amelie.

It's not that the woman has performed terribly or anything. Look at her results and Lena D's results at the Slams this year. At the AO, Amelie lost to the eventual champ (in an ugly match) in the QF, while Lena D failed to close out a 4th Round match against Patty (due to the excessive heat that day). At RG, Amelie lost in a tight three-setter in the 3rd Round to Ana Ivanovic, her worst GS result since Wimbledon 2001. Lena D fell to Likhovtseva in the Round of 16 in a match she really should have won. At Wimbledon, Momo reached the semis and very nearly beat Davenport (should have!) and Lena D should have beaten Myskina but crumbled. The US Open is the only Slam Lena D outperformed Amelie. Momo lost in the quarters to Pierce and Lena lost to Pierce in the semis. Atleast Lena managed to win a set against Big Momma.

Where am I going with all this? Simply, to look at their entire season, not just the last couple of weeks. Looking at US Open and Fed Cup results, Lena is Top 5 easily, atm. But, there's a reason why it's Momo who's currently in the Top 5 and not Lena. Amelie has had a pretty decent year. Not her best. But, quite decent. I just feel many people seem to have forgotten that.

And since people seem so hot on double bagels in WTA World, Momo did defeat Lena D 6-0, 6-0 in Paris in 2002. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to take anything away from Lena D. She's already achieved so much and she has it in her to win a Slam, but Amelie isn't quite the flash in the pan everyone is making her out to be.
Summed up nicely for me :)

MinnyGophers
Sep 26th, 2005, 04:03 PM
I would say Amelie by far, because you cant just look at how they performed this year ( even though Amelie had a better year than Dementieva). Amelie is extremely consistent, and in grand slams and particularly at Wimby where she always performs extremely well and could have really well gone to the finals the last two times, she usually loses to another top player.
Dementieva has breakthroughs, but she nearly isnt consistent enough.
Finally, if you compare their whole career, Amelie defintely wins hands down.
There is something as to vote for your favorite, and actually look at the big picture.
Dementieva is a great player when she is on, but the thing is that she isn't on nearly enough as to be as great as Amelie.
when you knock on the door long enough, you will eventually get through, Amelie will win Wimbledon, and Elena will eventually win a big one too.

timafi
Sep 26th, 2005, 04:09 PM
Momo hands down

Jenny.C.Fan
Sep 26th, 2005, 04:45 PM
definitely amelie, elena's a fighter but amelie is so much more talented.

middy
Sep 26th, 2005, 05:26 PM
Amelie. I think she has an amazing game when she is on, and has a shot at winning all the slams, whereas Elena will NEVER win wimbledon with that serve.

The difference is, that Elena is just mentally stonger. But I still believe Amelie will do it one day.

Wimbledon isnt the only slam :rolleyes:

Having said that, Elenas serve is improving and she has beautiful groundtsrokes. I think with the Fed cup win she will gather some extra confidence and I believe she may get her breakthrough either in AO or RG next year.

Amelie, her game is best suited for Wimbledon, however her mental toughness is what does her injustice. Plus age is also a huge factor compared to Elena.

I hope they both win a GS eventually, will be a shame if either player doesnt but I think Elena at the moment is a better player.

Boss monkey
Sep 26th, 2005, 05:43 PM
amelie chokes at grandslams
So does LenaD she blew her grand slam finals, and Amelie is much more consistent at grand slams. lena only has 2 grand slam finals and 2 grand slam SF, well Amelie has 4 grand slam SF, 1 grand slam F and 9 grand slam QF.

skanky~skanketta
Sep 26th, 2005, 05:50 PM
based on slam consistency, it's amelie without a doubt.

however, i voted for elena because
1)she's been to 2 slam finals and very recently too.
2)she has more room for improvement in her game as opposed to amelie. maybe not more but in amelie's case, it's the forehand but if elena fixes her serve, it would make a HUGE difference.
3)she's mentally tougher and less prone to choking.
4) she's faster around the court
5) her defense is just as good as her offence

meyerpl
Sep 26th, 2005, 05:50 PM
I think Amelie's game is about as good as it's going to get, which is very, very good.

I think Dementieva's game is going to improve. If she can improve her serve to the point of being even average instead of a glaring liability, it's almost scary how good she'll be.

Carmen Mairena
Sep 26th, 2005, 05:58 PM
Amélie

sandra_c
Sep 26th, 2005, 06:07 PM
Elena..:) i think she plays better than amelia too bad she has only 4 titles :sad:
That GS is not far away for Lena i hope ;)

TeamUSA#1
Sep 26th, 2005, 06:08 PM
No offense, but I just dont see either winning a slam. Maybe Elena if she can get that serve improved, because she has awesome groundies and is a great, great competitor. However, if she doesnt fix that serve of hers, there's no way she will win 7 matches in a row against the elite to win a slam.

Amelie, I am afraid, is past her chance...... Her games seems to be in decline this year, and she just doesnt have the head to win a major.....

Ceze
Sep 26th, 2005, 06:26 PM
Amélie, although i really like Lena :hearts: (http://www.wtaworld.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=13#)

flyingmachine
Sep 26th, 2005, 06:38 PM
Amelie :sad:

faboozadoo15
Sep 26th, 2005, 06:42 PM
depends on what you define as best...
elena has a better game right now on all surfaces but grass. she has all the tools to defeat amelie and has owned her in 3 HUGE matches recently. that said, amelie is way more accomplished.

if i had to pick one to win a slam, it would be dementieva.

martirogi
Sep 26th, 2005, 06:42 PM
if you look at their careers now amelie is the better player, but i think elena will improve and win a slam in the next couple years and after that she can be called the better player.

LucasArg
Sep 26th, 2005, 06:56 PM
Mauresmo IMO has no weekness on her game. Elena D has a HORRIBLE serve. And Amelie has far more accomplishment in her carreer than Elena.

MinnyGophers
Sep 26th, 2005, 07:00 PM
Mauresmo IMO has no weekness on her game. Elena D has a HORRIBLE serve. And Amelie has far more accomplishment in her carreer than Elena.

except for her head and her forehand lol
but otherwise i totally agree

souam
Sep 26th, 2005, 07:07 PM
I don't know anymore.

Kelly
Sep 26th, 2005, 07:16 PM
i dont know to be honest.....i watched amelies 2 wimbledon semi's the other day (04 v serena and 05 v lindsay)....and she played great in both...its just serena and lindsay won the right points at the right time....both matches were great...i guess my point is if amelie could play like that all the time then she has a chance...french open is a no hoper no matter how much she wants it...she would be better skipping it, no getting stresses out etc and just prcticing on grass for wimby where she can win there i truely believe that....

people question elena's serve but in a way its an advantage...if she doesnt know where its going how can the opponent...if you can still win a match after 20 df then you have strong aspects in other areas (her fh and movement esp)....i like them both...i want them both to win a slam...

MinnyGophers
Sep 26th, 2005, 07:31 PM
i dont know to be honest.....i watched amelies 2 wimbledon semi's the other day (04 v serena and 05 v lindsay)....and she played great in both...its just serena and lindsay won the right points at the right time....both matches were great...i guess my point is if amelie could play like that all the time then she has a chance...french open is a no hoper no matter how much she wants it...she would be better skipping it, no getting stresses out etc and just prcticing on grass for wimby where she can win there i truely believe that....

people question elena's serve but in a way its an advantage...if she doesnt know where its going how can the opponent...if you can still win a match after 20 df then you have strong aspects in other areas (her fh and movement esp)....i like them both...i want them both to win a slam...

yes, to me her losses to Serena and Lindsay at both Wimby semi were probably two of her best Grand Slam matches, save for the back injury against Serena. She lost to two of the very best players in the world in three really close sets, there is nothing to be ashamed of. I dont think there is no hope for Roland Garros, because she is one of the best claycourter there... if she could just improve her mental there, she stands as having more chances than anyone save Justine. I think she will reach Roland Garros only if she wins another slam first, being wimbledon where she has the most chances to breakhtrough or the aussie.
What i hate is hearing people say she chokes everytime she loses a match. It might be true for the FO and the fedcup vs dementieva because of the amazing amount of pressure she fells to win in that stadium, but to say she choked at wimby or at aussie against a crazy gladiator Serena is just stupid and an insult to serena and linds.
back to the point of the thread, Dementieva would be an unstoppable playerala Davenport if she fixed that serve and became a lot more consistent, but the thing is that Amelie is still better to this day because everything in her game except forehand is almost perfect.

Geisha
Sep 26th, 2005, 07:45 PM
LenaD. It's hard to think about how successful she could be if she could win that one extra match. Realistically, she could be a 2 time GS champion, a Gold Medalist in the Olympics, she could have won at least 3 Tier 1 titles...it's hard to comprehend sometimes. I think that with this win in Fed Cup we will see a new Elena though. She knows she was the sole reason they won the title and that must give her new confidence.

Amelie is a good player and owns almost all Russians minus LenaD --- I think that says enough about her talent. Amelie is more accomplished and has been #1 but I still feel LenaD is the better player.

Well, that is just foolish...I mean, with that logic, we could say that Venus is, realistically, a 12-time Grand Slam Champion (Finals in '97, 02 US Opens; '02 French, Wimbledon; '03 Australian Open, Wimbledon). I think, part of being a great player, is someone who can win that extra match- that ONE extra match. I mean, as it stands right now, Elena is like the Second Best at everything.

I think Elena Dementieva is the better player and the best player not to win a Grand Slam, but, I don't pit her results to Amelie's.

Weeks at No.1 - Mauresmo
Titles - Mauresmo
Win/Loss - Mauresmo

Not to mention, Amelie has made the QF and SF of a TON of Grand Slams in the recent past. IMO, I would take Amelie's '04 GS tournaments of Elena's, just because she consistently proved that she was somewhat of a force in each of them.

In that same breath, I think a lot of people don't realize how much Elena D. has accomplished. She's beaten a ton of top players- Venus, Lindsay, Amelie, Mary, just to name a few. She beat Amelie and Jennifer back-to-back at the US Open '04, then followed that up with a win over Lindsay in '05. She reached the F of Miami, Moscow, US Open, French Open and also the SF of Los Angeles, San Diego, and New Haven in '04- I believe...Also, Elena's run at the Olympics isn't too shabby.

~~*Elena.D*~~
Sep 26th, 2005, 07:46 PM
lena.d

Dementirilenko
Sep 26th, 2005, 08:36 PM
It can only be LENA D

Shenanigans
Sep 26th, 2005, 08:59 PM
I think Elena Dementieva is the better player and the best player not to win a Grand Slam, but, I don't pit her results to Amelie's.



I agree she has been the better player the last 4 weeks but results do count and Amélie has achieved so much more than Elena overall her GS results are better and outside of GS's Amélie has reached over 30 finals. I think Elena is a better big match player than Amélie but for the moment IMO she cannot be considered the best player not to win a slam.

suzie
Sep 26th, 2005, 09:01 PM
I agree she has been the better player the last 4 weeks but results do count and Amélie has achieved so much more than Elena overall her GS results are better and outside of GS's Amélie has reached over 30 finals. I think Elena is a better big match player than Amélie but for the moment IMO she cannot be considered the best player not to win a slam.
Exactly!

fammmmedspin
Sep 27th, 2005, 12:56 AM
Depends how important the title is. I can see Elena taking a GS title if she turns up fit and doesn't get someone like Nastya who can beat her or an in form Kim, Serena or Justine against her. With Momo I just see the doublefault at the key moment.

The interesting question is why Momo gets the tournament wins and Elena gets a lot fewer.

thelittlestelf
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:01 AM
Right now? Elena is the better player.

Overall? I think Amelie is the better player.

No Name Face
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:08 AM
I mean, as it stands right now, Elena is like the Second Best at everything.

that's probably what i meant and you explained it better.

MinnyGophers
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:29 AM
Depends how important the title is. I can see Elena taking a GS title if she turns up fit and doesn't get someone like Nastya who can beat her or an in form Kim, Serena or Justine against her. With Momo I just see the doublefault at the key moment.

The interesting question is why Momo gets the tournament wins and Elena gets a lot fewer.

because outside of slams, Momo loses mostly only to top top players to the caliber of Lindsay, the WS, or the belgians. As for the slams, well lets look at this year or maybe even 2004...
except for Roland Garros (obviously) she lost to Serena, Lindsay, and Mary. Not too shabby results i would say. All three went on to the finals, and Serena actually won. I like forgot who she lost to at the French ..

Elena is not nearly as consistent and in my opinion that's why she is not as great as Momo.

morningglory
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:40 AM
YAY!!! ELENA IS WINNING THIS POLL :banana:

morningglory
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:40 AM
I like forgot who she lost to at the French
Ana Ivanovic ;) DF on Match point

MinnyGophers
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:45 AM
Ana Ivanovic ;) DF on Match point

thank you
i dont expect Momo to do well at Roland Garros no matter what as much as I adore her.
The only way she ll get enough confidence is if she wins another slam beforehand

ginger_fish668
Sep 27th, 2005, 02:19 AM
Elena. Just a better all-round player IMHO. :)

tennnisfannn
Sep 27th, 2005, 03:31 AM
Amelie is by far the superior player, but unfortunately she gets over criticized for never winning a slam. When amelie is on a game she can go toe to toe with just about anyone. She is easily ther best player never to have won a slam and I don't believe there is a contest there.

hablo
Sep 27th, 2005, 03:34 AM
Amelie is by far the superior player, but unfortunately she gets over criticized for never winning a slam. When amelie is on a game she can go toe to toe with just about anyone. She is easily ther best player never to have won a slam and I don't believe there is a contest there.

:worship:

lauramariana
Sep 27th, 2005, 04:34 AM
Momo, even though Elena D has had the edge lately in slams, momo has been more consistent ...


mauresmo:
Grand Slam (singles) History
WL 05 04 03 02 01 00 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91
AUSTRALIAN OPEN 24-6 QF QF - QF 4r 2r F 3r - - - - - - -
ROLAND GARROS 19-11 3r QF QF 4r 1r 4r 2r 1r 2r 2r 1r - - - -
WIMBLEDON 18-6 SF SF - SF 3r 1r - 2r - - - - - - -
US OPEN 26-7 QF QF QF SF QF - 4r 3r - - - - - - -
= 1F, 4SF, 9QF, 4 4r
Championships History
WL 04 03 02 01 00 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91
Singles 5-6 SF F - 4r - 4r - - - - - - - -


dementieva:
Grand Slam (singles) History
WL 05 04 03 02 01 00 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91
AUSTRALIAN OPEN 11-7 4r 1r 1r 4r 3r 3r 2r - - - - - - - -
ROLAND GARROS 15-6 4r F 1r 4r 2r 2r 2r - - - - - - - -
WIMBLEDON 11-7 4r 1r 4r 4r 3r 1r 1r - - - - - - - -
US OPEN 24-7 SF F 4r 2r 4r SF 3r - - - - - - - -
= 2F, 2SF, 8 4r
Championships History
WL 04 03 02 01 00 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91
Singles 3-8 1r 1r 4r 4r SF - - - - - - - - -
Doubles - - W - - - - - - - - - - -



momo 17 career titles vs elena d 4 career titles :eek:

Both have silver medals at the olympics game: Amélie (2004), Elena D (2000) :angel:

if fed cup was deciding factor, then they would count it for ranking pts :p
(plus both have won it :bounce: )

Mauresmo leads 5-4
Rnk/Seed Year Event Surface Rnd Winner Score Rnk/Seed
34/8 1998 PRAGUE CLAY (O) R32 A. MAURESMO 6-7(5) 7-6(3) 6-1
16/10 1999 ITALIAN OPEN CLAY (O) R32 A. MAURESMO 1-6 6-3 7-5
15/6 2001 AMELIA ISLAND CLAY (O) Q A. MAURESMO
W/O 9/3
7/3 2003 PARIS CARPET (I) S A. MAURESMO 6-0 6-0
6/3 2003 TORONTO HARD (O) Q E. DEMENTIEVA 3-6 6-4 6-2
7/2 2003 MOSCOW CARPET (I) S A. MAURESMO 6-4 6-1
6/-- 2003 TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS HARD (I) R1 A. MAURESMO 6-3 6-2
3/3 2004 FRENCH OPEN CLAY (O) Q E. DEMENTIEVA 6-4 6-3
2/2 2004 US OPEN HARD (O) Q E. DEMENTIEVA 4-6 6-4 7-6(1)
4/-- 2005 FED CUP FINAL CLAY (O) R4 E. DEMENTIEVA 6-4 4-6 6-2

:worship: AMELIE :worship:

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Sep 27th, 2005, 06:43 AM
glad to know that Lena D is winning...

Dawn Marie
Sep 27th, 2005, 06:56 AM
I feel people are still shortchanging Amelie.

It's not that the woman has performed terribly or anything. Look at her results and Lena D's results at the Slams this year. At the AO, Amelie lost to the eventual champ (in an ugly match) in the QF, while Lena D failed to close out a 4th Round match against Patty (due to the excessive heat that day). At RG, Amelie lost in a tight three-setter in the 3rd Round to Ana Ivanovic, her worst GS result since Wimbledon 2001. Lena D fell to Likhovtseva in the Round of 16 in a match she really should have won. At Wimbledon, Momo reached the semis and very nearly beat Davenport (should have!) and Lena D should have beaten Myskina but crumbled. The US Open is the only Slam Lena D outperformed Amelie. Momo lost in the quarters to Pierce and Lena lost to Pierce in the semis. Atleast Lena managed to win a set against Big Momma.

Where am I going with all this? Simply, to look at their entire season, not just the last couple of weeks. Looking at US Open and Fed Cup results, Lena is Top 5 easily, atm. But, there's a reason why it's Momo who's currently in the Top 5 and not Lena. Amelie has had a pretty decent year. Not her best. But, quite decent. I just feel many people seem to have forgotten that.

And since people seem so hot on double bagels in WTA World, Momo did defeat Lena D 6-0, 6-0 in Paris in 2002. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to take anything away from Lena D. She's already achieved so much and she has it in her to win a Slam, but Amelie isn't quite the flash in the pan everyone is making her out to be.

beautiful post and dead on.:)

Dawn Marie
Sep 27th, 2005, 07:02 AM
Jon Werthim doesn't know women's tennis. So Momo hasn't won a slam and Elena D beat her at the Fed Cup, but this doesn't mean that Elena is the better player. Amelie has won some amazing titles. Elena has not performed all that great until last year. She only had one solid year.

Jon irks me because he writes these articles with a huge lack of tennis knowledge. Amelie needs some mental focus but what she has done in her career so far exceeds anything that Elena D has done. Just look at the stats.

Amelie lost focus during Fed Cup, but she still has game, and she has the type of game that can hurt power babes. Afterall she did take Lindsay to three sets on grass.

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Sep 27th, 2005, 07:12 AM
glad to know that aftera few while... she is still winning... ;)

fOxYLiCiOuS
Sep 27th, 2005, 07:37 AM
Elena D :worship:

Prizeidiot
Sep 27th, 2005, 07:43 AM
I'm an Elena fan, and I'd have to admit, I think Amelie is the better player. So in the context of this question, I'd say Amelie. On a technical level, her overall game is as good as anyone else on tour, and right now she is more consistent than Elena.

However, what I think the question a lot of people in this thread are answering is "who is more likely to win a slam?", which at this point, I think is Elena. Fed Cup was a clear example that in big matches, even though she has choked away before, Elena is tougher than Amelie.

But yeah, for the question being asked by the thread starter, it's Amelie.

Bероника
Sep 27th, 2005, 08:40 AM
Mauresmo IMO has no weekness on her game. Elena D has a HORRIBLE serve. And Amelie has far more accomplishment in her carreer than Elena.

exactly! you told it like it is

DEETHELICK
Sep 27th, 2005, 08:41 AM
I think if you put both in a Slam Final today, I'd put big money on Elena.

I think I voted wrongly, I chose Elena, but she is more likelier in my eyes to win a Slam than Amelie. But the best player to not win a Slam is Amelie.

Amelie's FH and nerves are two of her biggest achilles heels. Elena's serve and funny nerves (as she can be so tough and so weak in ONE tournament) are deciding factors.

I like both girls, may they both win, may Elena develop confidence in her serve and if Amelie can start hitting that FH flatter, then the tour better watch out, as her game is beautiful to watch.

DEETHELICK
Sep 27th, 2005, 08:42 AM
BTW, its is great to see this not degenerate into hate and bitching regarding the two players, focusing solely on discussion and a sharing of ideas. Has been great reading, so thank you for responding.

améliemomo
Sep 27th, 2005, 09:33 AM
amélie for her achievement, her talent and her great consistence.

I like elena too and I have to admit that she has improved her level, we could see it last year already and this year in US Open and Fed Cup.

Hope for both to win a slam.

xin_hui
Sep 27th, 2005, 11:15 AM
amelie

1. she has had more top tournament wins
2. more consistent slam results (alot of SF and QF, even that loss to ana ivanovic wasnt really a bad loss to a nobody)
3. hardly any shockingly bad losses
4. been number 1 before

hablo
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:22 PM
Jon Werthim doesn't know women's tennis. So Momo hasn't won a slam and Elena D beat her at the Fed Cup, but this doesn't mean that Elena is the better player. Amelie has won some amazing titles. Elena has not performed all that great until last year. She only had one solid year.

Jon irks me because he writes these articles with a huge lack of tennis knowledge. Amelie needs some mental focus but what she has done in her career so far exceeds anything that Elena D has done. Just look at the stats.

Amelie lost focus during Fed Cup, but she still has game, and she has the type of game that can hurt power babes. Afterall she did take Lindsay to three sets on grass.

Yup, fed cup is not indicative of a career!!! :worship:

the stats speak for themselves!!!!!! :angel:

hablo
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:23 PM
amelie

1. she has had more top tournament wins
2. more consistent slam results (alot of SF and QF, even that loss to ana ivanovic wasnt really a bad loss to a nobody)
3. hardly any shockingly bad losses
4. been number 1 before

:yeah: I have no more (good)reps to give :p:sad:

hablo
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:24 PM
I think if you put both in a Slam Final today, I'd put big money on Elena.

I think I voted wrongly, I chose Elena, but she is more likelier in my eyes to win a Slam than Amelie. But the best player to not win a Slam is Amelie.

Amelie's FH and nerves are two of her biggest achilles heels. Elena's serve and funny nerves (as she can be so tough and so weak in ONE tournament) are deciding factors.

I like both girls, may they both win, may Elena develop confidence in her serve and if Amelie can start hitting that FH flatter, then the tour better watch out, as her game is beautiful to watch.

you sure did vote wrongly ;) :p

Hachiko
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:25 PM
Amelie! She's just not in her usual form lately.

xin_hui
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:33 PM
:yeah: I have no more (good)reps to give :p:sad:

you can give it to me tomorrow;)

sapir1434
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:33 PM
:worship: AMELIE :worship:


:yeah:

hablo
Sep 27th, 2005, 01:41 PM
I'm an Elena fan, and I'd have to admit, I think Amelie is the better player. So in the context of this question, I'd say Amelie. On a technical level, her overall game is as good as anyone else on tour, and right now she is more consistent than Elena.

However, what I think the question a lot of people in this thread are answering is "who is more likely to win a slam?", which at this point, I think is Elena. Fed Cup was a clear example that in big matches, even though she has choked away before, Elena is tougher than Amelie.

But yeah, for the question being asked by the thread starter, it's Amelie.

I agree, I think people were thinking about "who is more likely to win a slam?", as you stated!!!!!! :yeah:

I hope both Mauresmo and Dementieva win a slam someday (but momo goes first :p ) :bounce:

miffedmax
Sep 27th, 2005, 02:23 PM
Elena is the best, with or without a slam.

DA FOREHAND
Sep 27th, 2005, 02:27 PM
i think amelie is a more complete player, and has more skill and talent than elena d.

vwfan
Sep 27th, 2005, 02:29 PM
Mauresmo has the game to contend with the top players and so does Dementieva, but that horrible serve from Dementieva is just shocking and until she fixes it she will be a bridesmaid. Mauresmo doesn't have the mental dimension, but her tennis game is unquestionably top caliber, so I voted for her. When Dementieva gets the full arsenal that starts with the serve, then she might win the best bridesmaid award.

Darop.
Sep 27th, 2005, 03:09 PM
how can you possibly vote for lena d. amelie must have ten or twelve more career titles.

so?

Light-skinned Girl
Sep 27th, 2005, 04:22 PM
They're both strong in different departments but I'll go with Momo because she blossomed first. :)

hingis-seles
Aug 1st, 2006, 11:34 AM
What a difference a year makes. :)

Yasmine
Aug 1st, 2006, 11:40 AM
was reading the title of this thread and wondering if we had gone back in time or something :lol:
definitely! Amélie can't even be called a one slam wonder anymore :worship: :banana: :hearts:

sperona
Aug 1st, 2006, 12:00 PM
:devil: :nerner: :nerner: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls:

timafi
Aug 1st, 2006, 02:18 PM
:devil: :nerner: :nerner: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No Name Face
Aug 1st, 2006, 02:33 PM
LenaD will win the USO :rocker2:

but i'm very happy for momo. i like her a lot. and i have a crush on her. :tape:

alextim
Aug 1st, 2006, 02:42 PM
it's funny to see this thread

hablo
Aug 1st, 2006, 03:10 PM
What a difference a year makes. :)
:spit: oh you are so evil :devil:
I have a feeling that this thread will be closed soon though :lol:

Viktymise
Aug 1st, 2006, 03:17 PM
LenaD will win the USO :rocker2:

but i'm very happy for momo. i like her a lot. and i have a crush on her. :tape:
lena will win the USO :D i have a really good feeling about it ;)

hingis-seles
Aug 1st, 2006, 03:49 PM
I hope Lena D does win the US Open. That'd be great to see. And not only because she's hot.

Beny
Aug 1st, 2006, 04:10 PM
I would also love Lena to win the US Open...but I can see a tough hurdle..WHO IS GONNA BEAT CLIJSTERS? I think only if Momo`s scenario of AO 06 where Kim had to retire, will make it possible. Or Lena will have to play her very best tennis.The same as what you can read in my avatar about her 2005 Filderstadt performance...unfortunately, that doesn`t happen everyday.. :(

btw.I really think Kim is too strong...like last year.Hope she is gonna be weaker since she has no coach and so on(isn`t that motivated..and bla bla..)

UDACHi
Aug 1st, 2006, 05:46 PM
:sad:

sapir1434
Aug 1st, 2006, 05:55 PM
What a difference a year makes. :)
You know I think I still don't get this fact that is Amelie is 2 slams champion :lol: :hearts: