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View Full Version : Injured or not, Serena is LAZY and needs to work harder.


CoryAnnAvants#1
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:25 PM
That's the only explanation for her piss poor results lately. She's not putting in enough hard work on the court. You don't go from winning a Grand Slam beating Sharapova and Davenport to losing to people outside of the world's top 120 in a matter of months. It doesn't work like that. Her knee might not be 100%, but it's certainly good enough to compete. If it weren't, she would have pulled out of the tournament. Lord knows she has done this enough times in her career.

I question her commitment to tennis right now. I'm not sure if she had more than that one practice session which pictures were posted of between her loss to Venus and her loss tonight. There is no excuse for the way she has been performing lately. Nobody dealing with an ailment hits a ball like that. Serena's movement is fine, it's her strokes that are awful right now. Serena has won Grand Slams with injuries like this in the past

I've said all along that Venus wants the results more than Serena. She's the one who has played a full schedule for the last two years. She's the one who has been working on adding techniques to her game like coming into the net. She's the one who has avoided the Hollywood bullshit. Serena needs to do the same or she will be finished at 24. She deserves better than that.

She needs to get it together because she's already out of the top 10 and won't be able to make it to the Masters this year to defend her points. An early loss in the Australian Open and Serena may actually find herself well outside the top 30...roughly around the #37 or #38 ranking spot:eek:

Sir Stefwhit
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:26 PM
"blah blah blah"...

Paneru
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:29 PM
"blah blah blah"...
Ditto.

Rocketta
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:37 PM
"blah blah blah"...

ditto ditto

tennisbum79
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:39 PM
That's the only explanation for her piss poor results lately. She's not putting in enough hard work on the court. You don't go from winning a Grand Slam beating Sharapova and Davenport to losing to people outside of the world's top 120 in a matter of months. It doesn't work like that. Her knee might not be 100%, but it's certainly good enough to compete. If it weren't, she would have pulled out of the tournament. Lord knows she has done this enough times in her career.

I question her commitment to tennis right now. I'm not sure if she had more than that one practice session which pictures were posted of between her loss to Venus and her loss tonight. There is no excuse for the way she has been performing lately. Nobody dealing with an ailment hits a ball like that. Serena's movement is fine, it's her strokes that are awful right now. Serena has won Grand Slams with injuries like this in the past

I've said all along that Venus wants the results more than Serena. She's the one who has played a full schedule for the last two years. She's the one who has been working on adding techniques to her game like coming into the net. She's the one who has avoided the Hollywood bullshit. Serena needs to do the same or she will be finished at 24. She deserves better than that.

She needs to get it together because she's already out of the top 10 and won't be able to make it to the Masters this year to defend her points. An early loss in the Australian Open and Serena may actually find herself well outside the top 30...roughly around the #37 or #38 ranking spot:eek:

I think Serena now is commited to tennis, as illustrated by her last declaration in the press. Maybe pre-wimbledon she was not.
And I do not agree that her knee is good enough to compete.

She has now put ther heart and mind to tennis, just that her body is lagging behind. She may need more time than she thought to heal, rehabilitate and training for match readiness. In her current knee (or other injury) condition she cannot train hard enough at a level that suits her game: physicality and athletism.

Not knowing you, I assume you are saying all these things out frustration.

creep
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:40 PM
ditto ditto

That's what Mindy said to Mork? Maybe I'm wrong.

Kabezya
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:42 PM
Just a few months ago, these words were directed at Venus. Suddenly that has all vanished and now Serena has replaced Venus. That alone makes this sort of post and any commentary outside of this board reek of bs. Frankly the criticism towards Venus was unfair and unbelievable for the fact that it's done by people not within the camp, and people who couldn't possibly know what is going on with either player. Serena's loss today a surprise, and an unwelcomed one for many, but it isn't the end of the world. Serena more than anyone knows what she needs to do. As a fan the disappointment of a loss as well as the joy at a win should be tempered when one remembers that all we are only fans and not the player.

Sanneriet
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:43 PM
When Serena had the knee surgery and took so long to come back, I was worried about what was really happening. This time, I think she does just takes a long time to recover. Rehab can be very difficult and does require daily discipline in regards to exercises meant to strengthen recovering muscles. I suspect that with all the travelling etc she does, that the exercises are not always being done on a daily basis. This would drag out the recovery time. I think she probably doesn't always follow the advice she is given, she seems rather spontaneous to me.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:46 PM
Just a few months ago, these words were directed at Venus. Suddenly that has all vanished and now Serena has replaced Venus. Frankly the criticism towards Venus was unfair and unbelievable for the fact that it's done by people not within the camp, and people who couldn't possibly know what is going on with either player. Serena's loss today a surprise, and an unwelcomed one for many, but it isn't the end of the world. Serena more than anyone knows what she needs to do. As a fan the disappointment of a loss as well as the joy at a win should be tempered when one remembers that all we are only fans and not the player.

I was never one of the people who harbored criticism at Venus. I've always said she was working hard, but for whatever reason the results weren't coming. You could tell, albeit in fragments, that she was trying to incorporate moving forward into her game, as well as attempting to be a bit more conservative with her forehand until she felt fully confident with it again. She also played a full schedule last year for the first time in her 10+ years on tour. It was only a matter of time before she got her groove back.

Venus also had injuries like Serena, but played through them more or less. As a result, her slump wasn't as bad as Serena's and her losses weren't nearly as awful. Losing to Raymond or Golovin or Karantacheva (who was a few points away from the FO semis) is a whole different ballpark than losing to journeywomen like Craybas or players outside of the top 100 that can't even make it to the final weekend in challenger events for the most part.

tennisjunky
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:48 PM
"blah blah blah"...
ditto.. the only reply worthy of this thread

Kabezya
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:51 PM
I was never one of the people who harbored criticism at Venus. I've always said she was working hard, but for whatever reason the results weren't coming. You could tell, albeit in fragments, that she was trying to incorporate moving forward into her game, as well as attempting to be a bit more conservative with her forehand until she felt fully confident with it again. She also played a full schedule last year for the first time in her 10+ years on tour. It was only a matter of time before she got her groove back.

First, Venus and Serena are two different people. Even if they were twins, they would still be individuals and should be treated as such. Their connection as sisters recently is being used against both and in an ironic way, the comparison does harm to both. A backwards compliment to Venus is really not a compliment to her at all as at the same time it is an insult to Serena.

You may not have been one of the ones to criticise Venus pre-Wimbledon 2005, but your criticism of Serena falls in line with what Venus had to endure on these boards and elsewhere with fans and commentators. The parallel is now it's directed towards Serena. Venus' struggles had nothing to do with Serena and the same is said in Serena's case.

Again, these are two separate individuals, both successful in their own right and the comparison trivializes their success as well as their losses.

Venus also had injuries like Serena, but played through them more or less. As a result, her slump wasn't as bad as Serena's and her losses weren't nearly that terrible. Losing to Raymond or Golovin or Karantacheva (who was a few points away from the FO semis) is a whole different ballpark than losing to players outside of the top 100 that can't even make it to the final weekend in challenger events for the most part.

Venus is Venus and Serena is Serena. That is where the comparison to begin and end. Serena isn't anymore lazy now as Venus was when Venus was the one 'overshadowed' by kid sister.

tennisbum79
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:55 PM
This time, I think she does just takes a long time to recover. Rehab can be very difficult and does require daily discipline in regards to exercises meant to strengthen recovering muscles. I suspect that with all the travelling etc she does, that the exercises are not always being done on a daily basis. This would drag out the recovery time. I think she probably doesn't always follow the advice she is given, she seems rather spontaneous to me.

I agree with you there on the discipline and consistency required to follow the daily prescribed routines when going through a rehabilitation. And certainly the travelling would make it difficult to follow the doctor's or physical therapist recommendations. But I think she knows it now and will hopefully get serious at working on it.

Richie77
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:56 PM
I was never one of the people who harbored criticism at Venus. I've always said she was working hard, but for whatever reason the results weren't coming. You could tell, albeit in fragments, that she was trying to incorporate moving forward into her game, as well as attempting to be a bit more conservative with her forehand until she felt fully confident with it again. She also played a full schedule last year for the first time in her 10+ years on tour. It was only a matter of time before she got her groove back.

Venus also had injuries like Serena, but played through them more or less. As a result, her slump wasn't as bad as Serena's and her losses weren't nearly as awful. Losing to Raymond or Golovin or Karantacheva (who was a few points away from the FO semis) is a whole different ballpark than losing to journeywomen like Craybas or players outside of the top 100 that can't even make it to the final weekend in challenger events for the most part.
This is probably the most fair post regarding Serena I've seen in a long time.

Even if you're the biggest Serena supporter there is, you have to acknowledge that something needs to change when a future Hall of Fame player goes from saving match points to win a Grand Slam to losing to World No. 129 in less than a year. Serena is better than this, and she owes it to herself to do something about it...whether it means working harder or letting her knee heal.

Paneru
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:02 PM
That's what Mindy said to Mork? Maybe I'm wrong.
Nanu-Nanu ;)

DevilishAttitude
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:24 PM
I agree.

Serena's way of thinking is totally wrong currently. She still thinks she's the best player. She's not. And she doesn't think she has to work hard to get back. She's wrong.

Her movement is now in Davenport terrority and Serena's not consisent enough to get away with this.

Venus has shown she can do it, but is Serena willing to put the effort in in? I think that currently she isn't :rolleyes:

Darop.
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:58 PM
Agreed.

Sometimes she just looks lazy on court :confused:

starr
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:14 PM
I think she is not lazy on the court. She just can't move like she did in the past. Even if she didn't have an injury, she is heavier and doesn't have stamina.

Everything we say on this board is sheer speculation, so I know I am speculating here. I've thought for a long time that for Serena her rise to the top seemed simply a matter of will power -- of deciding that she wasn't going to lose anymore, and then she didn't. (I'm not saying that's all there was to it, I'm saying I think that's how it felt to Serena.) I think that Serena has wanted to make winning more a matter of will power than of preperation in these last two years. That has worked for her in some ways, but her body still needs the preperation in order to survive intact for a season, and in order for Serena to play the way she wants to play, and needs to play.

At some point Serena is going to figure out that it takes more work every year in order just to stay in the same place, and a hell of a lot more work to improve each year. It's like the Red Queen in Alice. She has to run as hard as she can to stay in the same place. Once Serena accpets this, and applies herself, she will be back at in the top echelons.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Knizzle
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:17 PM
It's funny how people bash Serena for being "lazy", but then turn around and credit her physical abilities to genetics. You never thought she was working hard before you just thought it was natural, but now you turn around and bash her for being "lazy" when you didn't give her credit for working extremely hard before. Hypocrites. :yawn:

Deimos
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:36 PM
It's funny how people bash Serena for being "lazy", but then turn around and credit her physical abilities to genetics. You never thought she was working hard before you just thought it was natural, but now you turn around and bash her for being "lazy" when you didn't give her credit for working extremely hard before. Hypocrites. :yawn:

Good point there. :eek:

creep
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:43 PM
lol I just think it's fucking hilarious that people who waste umpteen hours a day, sitting on their arse, posting meaningless bullshit on here, call Serena lazy.

tennisjunky
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:45 PM
It's funny how people bash Serena for being "lazy", but then turn around and credit her physical abilities to genetics. You never thought she was working hard before you just thought it was natural, but now you turn around and bash her for being "lazy" when you didn't give her credit for working extremely hard before. Hypocrites. :yawn:
yep yep

Craigy
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:46 PM
Ditto :yippee:
Sorry, just had to say it....

StarDuvallGrant
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:48 PM
lol I just think it's fucking hilarious that people who waste umpteen hours a day, sitting on their arse, posting meaningless bullshit on here, call Serena lazy.

:haha: too true.

ezekiel
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:50 PM
lol I just think it's fucking hilarious that people who waste umpteen hours a day, sitting on their arse, posting meaningless bullshit on here, call Serena lazy.

:yeah:

meyerpl
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:58 PM
It's funny how people bash Serena for being "lazy", but then turn around and credit her physical abilities to genetics. You never thought she was working hard before you just thought it was natural, but now you turn around and bash her for being "lazy" when you didn't give her credit for working extremely hard before. Hypocrites. :yawn:

Yes.

Next thing you know somebody will credit her laziness to genetics. Wow!

Who the hell besides Serena knows what's going on with her right now, but one thing any fool knows; she didn't become one of the greatest players of all time without plenty of hard work AND natural ability. Plus, if she was lazy she wouldn't be out there at all anymore. Anybody who saw her gut it out in the final match at the 2004 WTA championship against Sharapova knows she's a fighter on court.

Anybody can be a critic.

JenCpLvr
Sep 21st, 2005, 09:21 PM
I don't think anyone is questioning Serena's fight ON the tennis court. When she is playing, she gives it her all and tries to win at all costs.

The issue lies more with her practice and preperation. She doesn't seem to be putting the practice hours in to acheive the results she once had. Yes, Serena is naturally athletic, but not a natural tennis player, IMO. I don't think tennis comes as naturally to her as it does to some other players. Without hard work and dedication, she will not excel like in times past. Her work ethic seems questionable these days. I think that's all the orginal poster was trying to say.

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2005, 10:52 PM
"blah blah blah"...
Triple ditto :yawn:

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2005, 10:54 PM
Just a few months ago, these words were directed at Venus. Suddenly that has all vanished and now Serena has replaced Venus. That alone makes this sort of post and any commentary outside of this board reek of bs. Frankly the criticism towards Venus was unfair and unbelievable for the fact that it's done by people not within the camp, and people who couldn't possibly know what is going on with either player. Serena's loss today a surprise, and an unwelcomed one for many, but it isn't the end of the world. Serena more than anyone knows what she needs to do. As a fan the disappointment of a loss as well as the joy at a win should be tempered when one remembers that all we are only fans and not the player.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2005, 10:57 PM
Agreed.

Sometimes she just looks lazy on court :confused:
hater :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2005, 10:58 PM
I think she is not lazy on the court. She just can't move like she did in the past. Even if she didn't have an injury, she is heavier and doesn't have stamina.

Everything we say on this board is sheer speculation, so I know I am speculating here. I've thought for a long time that for Serena her rise to the top seemed simply a matter of will power -- of deciding that she wasn't going to lose anymore, and then she didn't. (I'm not saying that's all there was to it, I'm saying I think that's how it felt to Serena.) I think that Serena has wanted to make winning more a matter of will power than of preperation in these last two years. That has worked for her in some ways, but her body still needs the preperation in order to survive intact for a season, and in order for Serena to play the way she wants to play, and needs to play.

At some point Serena is going to figure out that it takes more work every year in order just to stay in the same place, and a hell of a lot more work to improve each year. It's like the Red Queen in Alice. She has to run as hard as she can to stay in the same place. Once Serena accpets this, and applies herself, she will be back at in the top echelons.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Wasn't that the Queen of Hearts? :confused:

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2005, 10:59 PM
lol I just think it's fucking hilarious that people who waste umpteen hours a day, sitting on their arse, posting meaningless bullshit on here, call Serena lazy.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:01 PM
I don't think anyone is questioning Serena's fight ON the tennis court. When she is playing, she gives it her all and tries to win at all costs.

The issue lies more with her practice and preperation. She doesn't seem to be putting the practice hours in to acheive the results she once had. Yes, Serena is naturally athletic, but not a natural tennis player, IMO. I don't think tennis comes as naturally to her as it does to some other players. Without hard work and dedication, she will not excel like in times past. Her work ethic seems questionable these days. I think that's all the orginal poster was trying to say.
:haha: :haha: :haha:

hotandspicey
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:04 PM
ditto.. the only reply worthy of this threadAgreed!!!:yeah: Ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto!

kiwifan
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:05 PM
It's funny how people bash Serena for being "lazy", but then turn around and credit her physical abilities to genetics. You never thought she was working hard before you just thought it was natural, but now you turn around and bash her for being "lazy" when you didn't give her credit for working extremely hard before. Hypocrites. :yawn:

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Kar16d
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:06 PM
Mabey she wants to let other people win and mabey she needs a break DAMN

hotandspicey
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:06 PM
lol I just think it's fucking hilarious that people who waste umpteen hours a day, sitting on their arse, posting meaningless bullshit on here, call Serena lazy. Amen to that! :worship: :worship:

iWill
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:21 PM
I honestly don't know if its Serena's injury or commitment level. It seems that now though she only wants to win GS every other event shes played this year besides the GS she has just been "blah" about. I hope she changes this attitude because if she doesnt she gonna find herself even further away from Venus by next year.

JenCpLvr
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:34 PM
I don't Serena wants to face the fact that she is not good enough to take breaks, not practice, gain weight and still be on top. I think she convinced herself that she was good enough to stay on top.. regardless of the circumstances.

Blonde_Ambition7
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:36 PM
i don't know what is wrong with Serena but it'd be nice to have her winning again.

i'm sure it's painful for her to lose in the first round after she won the title last year.

Brooks.
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:37 PM
these things cant happen over one week people :rolleyes: .....honestly some of you expect serena to be in peak form within a matter of 2 weeks.....its gonna take time......sure this loss shouldn't have happened but who freaking cares in the long run...she'll be back and us williams fans will have some lovely threads to bump back up including this one ;)

moon
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:37 PM
It's real easy to sit at your computers and criticize Serena, and call her names.
I'd like to see what type of lives some of you people have that you're so high minded enough that you can say with such "authority" that Serena is this and that, and she needs to do this and that to get her self together. Who the hell are you?

Give the girl a break, and get a grip.

Diesel
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:40 PM
I don't think Serena has convinced herself of anything other than she can still win the majors and get to that number one spot. She's a champion and has a history of winning. I really do believe that Serena realizes what she needs to do to make those statements and make those dreams a reality. It's about doing it right now for Serena and that isn't going to happen over night. Serena's loss today isn't indicative of a downfall and her win at the AO obviously wasn't indicative of Serena dominating this year. Time is needed flat out. Serena is one of the most determined and passionate players out there. I don't see a Serena happy with losses or just one slam a year. The switch has been flipped but it's more or less time that I see is necessary so whatever improvement Serena has put in will start showing.

Lindsayfan32
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:42 PM
Wasn't this after Serena said only number one is good enough for me. She who thinks she can workout for a week and be back to fittness. I can't stand the Williams sisters so I find this very funny Serena is a joke right now until she gets the results on the board she might be well advised to keep her mouth shut.

JenCpLvr
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:46 PM
It's real easy to sit at your computers and criticize Serena, and call her names.
I'd like to see what type of lives some of you people have that you're so high minded enough that you can say with such "authority" that Serena is this and that, and she needs to do this and that to get her self together. Who the hell are you?

Give the girl a break, and get a grip.

You're apparently of equal authority to sit at "your computer" and state that we are wrong. You somehow know that we're all wrong and you're somehow right? Your opinion of the events is no more warranted than ours. So, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU? :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:47 PM
It's real easy to sit at your computers and criticize Serena, and call her names.
I'd like to see what type of lives some of you people have that you're so high minded enough that you can say with such "authority" that Serena is this and that, and she needs to do this and that to get her self together. Who the hell are you?

Give the girl a break, and get a grip.

It's like Venus Redux isn't it? :eek:

Rocketta
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:48 PM
You're apparently of equal authority to sit at "your computer" and state that we are wrong. You somehow know that we're all wrong and you're somehow right? Your opinion of the events is no more warranted than ours. So, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU? :rolleyes:

She's someone with some sense why don't you try and find some? :yawn:

"Topaz"
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:52 PM
Well, since Serena showed up, that means she wants to play professional tennis. Period! As she recently said, if she wanted to, she could have been elsewhere on a long chair sipping lemonade and improving her tan.

It's good for her psyche to be on the court. That's the best adviser for her as to what to work on. A little bit of humiliation can work marvel. She will know that she needs to practice hard on things that worked well in the past and investigate new stuff; she will know that losing a few pounds will improve stamina and allow better execution. I'm confident she'll be back.

The key thing here is she's out there and she's playing. Keep it up, lil sis!

moon
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:56 PM
You're apparently of equal authority to sit at "your computer" and state that we are wrong. You somehow know that we're all wrong and you're somehow right? Your opinion of the events is no more warranted than ours. So, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU? :rolleyes:

Apparently you need reading comprehension lessons, because I never said anyone is wrong or right. But I guess you're one of the many who were frothing at the mouth with negativity, and just can't wait to say something derogatory about anybody.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Sep 22nd, 2005, 12:46 AM
she might be well advised to keep her mouth shut.

I think you're well advised to do the same :wavey:

rjd1111
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:07 AM
First, Venus and Serena are two different people. Even if they were twins, they would still be individuals and should be treated as such. Their connection as sisters recently is being used against both and in an ironic way, the comparison does harm to both. A backwards compliment to Venus is really not a compliment to her at all as at the same time it is an insult to Serena.

You may not have been one of the ones to criticise Venus pre-Wimbledon 2005, but your criticism of Serena falls in line with what Venus had to endure on these boards and elsewhere with fans and commentators. The parallel is now it's directed towards Serena. Venus' struggles had nothing to do with Serena and the same is said in Serena's case.

Again, these are two separate individuals, both successful in their own right and the comparison trivializes their success as well as their losses.



Venus is Venus and Serena is Serena. That is where the comparison to begin and end. Serena isn't anymore lazy now as Venus was when Venus was the one 'overshadowed' by kid sister.



I disagree somewhat. Its more than Just Sisters and thats It.
They have lived together all their lives. They have worked and
trained together all their lives. They have nurtured each other
all their lives. I think Venus' losses in all those Slams had a lot
to do with her love for her little Sister. On a subconscious level.
What affects one does affect the other. As I have said before
They are like two sides of the same coin.

Dawn Marie
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:12 AM
Serena lost and you haters don't care at all, you just use her loss to give your hate in your soul a place to live and breath.


She is still not 100% and alot of times with losses come HUGE wins. Serena still has the tatent it's just a matter of time before she gets it all together. Sheesh many players go through road bumps.

Venus did and she won Wimbledon easily.

Imho this loss will help Serena out a helluva alot.

Mother_Marjorie
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:15 AM
I think Serena now is commited to tennis, as illustrated by her last declaration in the press.

I take issue with these "declarations" tennis players and sports figures make during a time when they are not 100% physically. Most would agree these statements serve no other purpose than an attempt to create a psychological edge over their opponents. Which brings to mind that it doesn't matter what people say unless they can back it up with "game." Otherwise, it can be quite embarrassing.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:18 AM
I think it's funny how people are acting as if Serena's career is over. She DID just get to the 4r at the US Open, and had Venus on the ropes in the 1st set. Venus at the moment is playing top 5 tennis. So that right there let's you know Serena isn't done yet. Get off her back!

Mother_Marjorie
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:20 AM
Serena lost and you haters don't care at all, you just use her loss to give your hate in your soul a place to live and breath.

I think Sharapova, Davenport, Clijsters and most other players fans could say the same thing in this forum. Then again, how many times has it been said? Come on, Dawn, keep it real.

She is still not 100% and alot of times with losses come HUGE wins. Serena still has the tatent it's just a matter of time before she gets it all together. Sheesh many players go through road bumps.

Must agree with that statement. However, what is odd about Serena's year is that she hasn't rebounded as quickly as we are all used to.


Venus did and she won Wimbledon easily.

To my recollection, Venus and Lindsay played the longest Wimbledon final in women's history. If asked, I'm sure Venus wouldn't say it was an easy win at Wimbledon.

JenCpLvr
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:26 AM
Apparently you need reading comprehension lessons, because I never said anyone is wrong or right. But I guess you're one of the many who were frothing at the mouth with negativity, and just can't wait to say something derogatory about anybody.

Damn, now you know my inner most fuckin secrets. There is just no getting by you.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:28 AM
I think Sharapova, Davenport, Clijsters and most other players fans could say the same thing in this forum. Then again, how many times has it been said? Come on, Dawn, keep it real.



Must agree with that statement. However, what is odd about Serena's year is that she hasn't rebounded as quickly as we are all used to.



To my recollection, Venus and Lindsay played the longest Wimbledon final in women's history. If asked, I'm sure Venus wouldn't say it was an easy win at Wimbledon.

Yeah, Venus got to the FINALS without dropping a set, but it wasn't easy. And the final is a whole different story, that was just incredible.

Mother_Marjorie
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:30 AM
That's the only explanation for her piss poor results lately. She's not putting in enough hard work on the court. You don't go from winning a Grand Slam beating Sharapova and Davenport to losing to people outside of the world's top 120 in a matter of months. It doesn't work like that. Her knee might not be 100%, but it's certainly good enough to compete. If it weren't, she would have pulled out of the tournament. Lord knows she has done this enough times in her career.

I question her commitment to tennis right now. I'm not sure if she had more than that one practice session which pictures were posted of between her loss to Venus and her loss tonight. There is no excuse for the way she has been performing lately. Nobody dealing with an ailment hits a ball like that. Serena's movement is fine, it's her strokes that are awful right now. Serena has won Grand Slams with injuries like this in the past

I've said all along that Venus wants the results more than Serena. She's the one who has played a full schedule for the last two years. She's the one who has been working on adding techniques to her game like coming into the net. She's the one who has avoided the Hollywood bullshit. Serena needs to do the same or she will be finished at 24. She deserves better than that.

She needs to get it together because she's already out of the top 10 and won't be able to make it to the Masters this year to defend her points. An early loss in the Australian Open and Serena may actually find herself well outside the top 30...roughly around the #37 or #38 ranking spot:eek:

I personally don't understand what's happening with Serena this year other than the ankle injury and a recurring knee problem. Both of which can be fixed. However, retirement is totally out of the question for Serena, unless she herself states an impending retirement. Tennis has always been a springboard for off-court pursuits. Her single most marketable attribute has been her exposure on the tennis court. I'm doubtful she'll want to give that up early, unless injury would force it.

Dawn Marie
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:30 AM
People know that Serena has 7 slams and that she still has alot of game left in her so stop hating because you want a place to aim your hate. You all know Serena is talented and that her wins will come in a matter of time. I could see if she has never one a slam or won one slam or has been slamless for a few years, but Serena has been hurt and you all know it. With some court confidence she'll be back to her fighting ways.:)

CrossCourt~Rally
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:31 AM
Damn that was harsh "Cory Ann" :eek: :scared:

Dawn Marie
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:33 AM
Of course I know that the final was not easy but people counted her out and the way she played she made it look easy. She destroyed everyone else but alot of times when you haven't won your 5th slam in years it makes it hard.

Go V! Go Ree

starr
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:33 AM
Wasn't that the Queen of Hearts? :confused:

I think you may be right. But a queen of hearts is a red queen. :)

WF4EVER
Sep 22nd, 2005, 11:21 AM
I don't know if Serena is lazy or too busy with other occupations, but i agree with you, CAV, it seems as if her knee is good enough to compete. She has blamed her last set of losses and pullouts on her knee so why come to a tournament if it is still an issue? Did she blame her loss to Venus on her knee as well? I don't know but she said in the post-match that Venus was the only one who could have beaten her there, which was rubbish. If that was the case she should be fit enough to win the China Open.

Last year Venus seemed to be the one with the issues, but that was mainly her technical game, not her commitment to play becuase Venus played a lot more tournaments since her return from that origingal injury than she had played in years. I believe Venus made the mistake of thinking she didn't have to do anything except be healthy in order to win; she was clearly wrong and you can see it in her Wimby matches, her fight to the BOW finals and the couple of matches she won at the USO.

It's obvious Venus wants to win more that's why she's playing more. I don't discount Serena's desire to win but she's not clearing the path to achieving that. If her knee is still hurting she shouldn't be playing cause there's no way that'll help her. As has been stated many a time in many a forum she is out of shape and overweight. SHe needs some serious time to work on herself rather than going out there to lose in her first match because there's no way this can help improve her game if she's not staying on the court long enough to get the matchplay in.

Also, I've never been an advocate of Venus and Serena focusing on tennis, tennis and only tennis. I think they have a right and deserve as well to have other interests. They are not zombies. However I think Venus and Serena have some serious time management issues. You can't be partying all night in the US and then expect to show up for a tournament the day before it starts in Europe. There must be a proper scheduling of their social lives and tennis careers so that they can enjoy both. They party too much and it often shows in their results on the court.

Maybe they, too, have come to the stage int heir careers where all they care about is showing up fit only for the Slams (and they haven't done this at the FO and the USO). I think the sisters really need to get their act together. It is not just Serena becuase they are so closely bonded that what one does ultimately affects the other. If they feed off each other it should be something good. Venus and Serena need to beat each other into shape and to commit themselves to doing their best when they show up at a tournament, and your best means proper preparation, as well as proper attire.

If Serena hadn't had the OZ win the year would look really dismal. But I hold her responsible for not allowing herself proper healing time in order to make the best of it. She was in bad shape in OZ and won and she has gone downhill since. She really needs to get herself back into shape. I can't question her commitment to the game but if she's going to play please prepare properly. Same as Venus who was literally spent in her match against Kim. Unreal.

Stamp Paid
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:02 PM
Serena needs a Karatancheva, STAT!

some slow, steady player who doesnt have to power to kill her, but just lulls her into a match and reduces her to utter shit, (must be in 3 sets - cannot be a blowout) to add a little clarity to her present situation.

miffedmax
Sep 22nd, 2005, 03:05 PM
It's funny how people bash Serena for being "lazy", but then turn around and credit her physical abilities to genetics. You never thought she was working hard before you just thought it was natural, but now you turn around and bash her for being "lazy" when you didn't give her credit for working extremely hard before. Hypocrites. :yawn:

I agree. There is an unfair perception that just because of who she is, Serena just has to put forth a little "effort" and she'd be No. 1. That insults her and all the other women on the tour who have worked hard to beat her.

There's a new generation of tennis players (of which Serena was one of the first) that's bigger, stronger and faster than those of the Hingis era. They play power tennis themselves, their used to playing power tennis and yeah, Serena's going to lose to some of them. Just like JHH, Dementieva (who's still perfect, BTW), Mauresmo, etc. all of whom have lost to players ranked far below them this year.

I've maintained all along that the Williams sisters "problems" are really reflective of the fact that the rest of the tour has caught up with them. Frankly, I think that so many players have had to change their approach to the game to compete says more about the Williams sisters greatness than any won loss record ever could.

Stamp Paid
Sep 22nd, 2005, 03:07 PM
I agree. There is an unfair perception that just because of who she is, Serena just has to put forth a little "effort" and she'd be No. 1. That insults her and all the other women on the tour who have worked hard to beat her.

There's a new generation of tennis players (of which Serena was one of the first) that's bigger, stronger and faster than those of the Hingis era. They play power tennis themselves, their used to playing power tennis and yeah, Serena's going to lose to some of them. Just like JHH, Dementieva (who's still perfect, BTW), Mauresmo, etc. all of whom have lost to players ranked far below them this year.

I've maintained all along that the Williams sisters "problems" are really reflective of the fact that the rest of the tour has caught up with them. Frankly, I think that so many players have had to change their approach to the game to compete says more about the Williams sisters greatness than any won loss record ever could.

I disagree.

The level of tennis that they displayed in 2002-03 would still dominate the tour right now. Injuries brought them down severely, and the tour did get better, thats why we're seeing the results that we're seeing now. But it didnt catch up, the level of tennis Serena displayed in 2002 hasnt been replicated since.

brunof
Sep 22nd, 2005, 03:14 PM
ditto.. the only reply worthy of this thread

Blah, Blah, Blah...CoryAnnAvants#1 brings a lot to this board, and it's clear he knows what he's talking about. I can't say that about a lot of other posters.

BUBI
Sep 22nd, 2005, 03:53 PM
I agree. There is an unfair perception that just because of who she is, Serena just has to put forth a little "effort" and she'd be No. 1. That insults her and all the other women on the tour who have worked hard to beat her.

There's a new generation of tennis players (of which Serena was one of the first) that's bigger, stronger and faster than those of the Hingis era. They play power tennis themselves, their used to playing power tennis and yeah, Serena's going to lose to some of them. Just like JHH, Dementieva (who's still perfect, BTW), Mauresmo, etc. all of whom have lost to players ranked far below them this year.

I've maintained all along that the Williams sisters "problems" are really reflective of the fact that the rest of the tour has caught up with them. Frankly, I think that so many players have had to change their approach to the game to compete says more about the Williams sisters greatness than any won loss record ever could.

That's so true :worship:

Denise4925
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:04 PM
I think you may be right. But a queen of hearts is a red queen. :)
So's a queen of diamonds. :wavey:

Denise4925
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:18 PM
I don't know if Serena is lazy or too busy with other occupations, but i agree with you, CAV, it seems as if her knee is good enough to compete. She has blamed her last set of losses and pullouts on her knee so why come to a tournament if it is still an issue? Did she blame her loss to Venus on her knee as well? I don't know but she said in the post-match that Venus was the only one who could have beaten her there, which was rubbish. If that was the case she should be fit enough to win the China Open.

Last year Venus seemed to be the one with the issues, but that was mainly her technical game, not her commitment to play becuase Venus played a lot more tournaments since her return from that origingal injury than she had played in years. I believe Venus made the mistake of thinking she didn't have to do anything except be healthy in order to win; she was clearly wrong and you can see it in her Wimby matches, her fight to the BOW finals and the couple of matches she won at the USO.

It's obvious Venus wants to win more that's why she's playing more. I don't discount Serena's desire to win but she's not clearing the path to achieving that. If her knee is still hurting she shouldn't be playing cause there's no way that'll help her. As has been stated many a time in many a forum she is out of shape and overweight. SHe needs some serious time to work on herself rather than going out there to lose in her first match because there's no way this can help improve her game if she's not staying on the court long enough to get the matchplay in.

Also, I've never been an advocate of Venus and Serena focusing on tennis, tennis and only tennis. I think they have a right and deserve as well to have other interests. They are not zombies. However I think Venus and Serena have some serious time management issues. You can't be partying all night in the US and then expect to show up for a tournament the day before it starts in Europe. There must be a proper scheduling of their social lives and tennis careers so that they can enjoy both. They party too much and it often shows in their results on the court.

Maybe they, too, have come to the stage int heir careers where all they care about is showing up fit only for the Slams (and they haven't done this at the FO and the USO). I think the sisters really need to get their act together. It is not just Serena becuase they are so closely bonded that what one does ultimately affects the other. If they feed off each other it should be something good. Venus and Serena need to beat each other into shape and to commit themselves to doing their best when they show up at a tournament, and your best means proper preparation, as well as proper attire.

If Serena hadn't had the OZ win the year would look really dismal. But I hold her responsible for not allowing herself proper healing time in order to make the best of it. She was in bad shape in OZ and won and she has gone downhill since. She really needs to get herself back into shape. I can't question her commitment to the game but if she's going to play please prepare properly. Same as Venus who was literally spent in her match against Kim. Unreal.
Hi, :wavey: I was just wondering, if you think you can run Venus and Serena's lives and careers better than they have, why don't you apply for the job? :) I'm sure they could use your expert advice. I don't know how they have survived on the WTA tour for as long as they have without you. You seem to know their party schedules, as well as their practice and travel schedules and how they should be handled. Maybe you can help them get their act together. Their performance this year has been pitiful, only winning one slam each, shame on them. I know that you and only you can help them improve upon that.

Or, maybe we as bystanders don't really know what's going on, and if we are fans just have faith in our players. Everyone goes through a slump or two in their careers. After 12 GS titles and numerous other titles together, I have faith that both sisters know what to do to get back where they want to be, and if they don't know, I'm sure they know where to go for advice. I leave it to them and try not to speculate.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:18 PM
Serena needs a Karatancheva, STAT!

some slow, steady player who doesnt have to power to kill her, but just lulls her into a match and reduces her to utter shit, (must be in 3 sets - cannot be a blowout) to add a little clarity to her present situation.

That already happened with Jill Craybas at Wimby, and now Tian Tian Sun etc. Almost all of her losses this year besides the one to Venus have been to players without a big weapon. Their weapon is consistency and great physical fitness to allow them to run down extra balls.

I'm not an advocate of Serena being all tennis either, WF4EVER, but there needs to be some sort of real commitment. Part of Serena's problem is that she is indeed too talented for her own good. She can afford to have these extra curricular activities and get away with it. Can you imagine if Capriati or Davenport stopped working out and put down their rackets for weeks at a time? Their careers would turn to shit.

Serena can get away with this. All she had to do was say "I'm going to become #1 in the world" in 2002 and put in the necessary work. And she did. Everyone on tour was her bitch that year. She even bragged how she hadn't gone to the gym the entire summer after winning the US Open. I think the problem is that's she trying to figure out a way to get the results she had in the past with putting in the least effort possible. That's just not going to cut it.

Look at her schedule for one thing. The year she became #1 was the year that she played the most tournaments in any other year she had on tour? How many events was that? THIRTEEN. Most years she only plays 10 or 11 events. I don't care how taxing the tour is. You can play 17 events. If her even more injury prone sister can do it, so can she. Nobody's asking to run around the world chasing ranking points aimlessly, but play a few weeks in a row. Really get into the clay court season. Play a tune-up before Wimbledon. These are standard practices that almost every player on tour does, with the possible exception of the grass court event before Wimbledon. Serena is not above this and she needs to accept that.

If I were here, I would drop down and play a Tier III or IV event and win it to just get some confidence. Venus did it with Istanbul. Sharapova did it with Korea/Japan last year. Serena's not above playing smaller events. Take a wild card into the upcoming events in Korea or Japan. Play the Tier III in Quebec. Do something to end the year on a relatively positive note and get ready for Australia.

silverwhite
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:22 PM
That's the only explanation for her piss poor results lately. She's not putting in enough hard work on the court. You don't go from winning a Grand Slam beating Sharapova and Davenport to losing to people outside of the world's top 120 in a matter of months. It doesn't work like that. Her knee might not be 100%, but it's certainly good enough to compete. If it weren't, she would have pulled out of the tournament. Lord knows she has done this enough times in her career.

I question her commitment to tennis right now. I'm not sure if she had more than that one practice session which pictures were posted of between her loss to Venus and her loss tonight. There is no excuse for the way she has been performing lately. Nobody dealing with an ailment hits a ball like that. Serena's movement is fine, it's her strokes that are awful right now. Serena has won Grand Slams with injuries like this in the past

I've said all along that Venus wants the results more than Serena. She's the one who has played a full schedule for the last two years. She's the one who has been working on adding techniques to her game like coming into the net. She's the one who has avoided the Hollywood bullshit. Serena needs to do the same or she will be finished at 24. She deserves better than that.

She needs to get it together because she's already out of the top 10 and won't be able to make it to the Masters this year to defend her points. An early loss in the Australian Open and Serena may actually find herself well outside the top 30...roughly around the #37 or #38 ranking spot:eek:

:haha: I bet you haven't even seen a snippet of the match. You lost all credibility with that line.

Denise4925
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:24 PM
That already happened with Jill Craybas at Wimby, and now Tian Tian Sun etc. Almost all of her losses this year besides the one to Venus have been to players without a big weapon. Their weapon is consistency and great physical fitness to allow them to run down extra balls.

I'm not an advocate of Serena being all tennis either, WF4EVER, but there needs to be some sort of real commitment. Part of Serena's problem is that she is indeed too talented for her own good. She can afford to have these extra curricular activities and get away with it. Can you imagine if Capriati or Davenport stopped working out and put down their rackets for weeks at a time? Their careers would turn to shit.

Serena can get away with this. All she had to do was say "I'm going to become #1 in the world" in 2002 and put in the necessary work. And she did. Everyone on tour was her bitch that year. She even bragged how she hadn't gone to the gym the entire summer after winning the US Open. I think the problem is that's she trying to figure out a way to get the results she had in the past with putting in the least effort possible. That's just not going to cut it.

Look at her schedule for one thing. The year she became #1 was the year that she played the most tournaments in any other year she had on tour? How many events was that? THIRTEEN. Most years she only plays 10 or 11 events. I don't care how taxing the tour is. You can play 17 events. If her even more injury prone sister can do it, so can she. Nobody's asking to run around the world chasing ranking points aimlessly, but play a few weeks in a row. Really get into the clay court season. Play a tune-up before Wimbledon. These are standard practices that almost every player on tour does, with the possible exception of the grass court event before Wimbledon. Serena is not above this and she needs to accept that.

If I were here, I would drop down and play a Tier III or IV event and win it to just get some confidence. Venus did it with Istanbul. Sharapova did it with Korea/Japan last year. Serena's not above playing smaller events. Take a wild card into the upcoming events in Korea or Japan. Play the Tier III in Quebec. Do something to end the year on a relatively positive note and get ready for Australia.
Whoever said she was above anything?? You assume she feels that way. Who are you to say what she needs to do? Did you ever win anything on the WTA tour, let alone 7 GS titles? No, I didn't think so. Therefore, you are nobody to be saying what she does and does not need to do and you just need to accept that.

Knizzle
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:27 PM
I agree. There is an unfair perception that just because of who she is, Serena just has to put forth a little "effort" and she'd be No. 1. That insults her and all the other women on the tour who have worked hard to beat her.

There's a new generation of tennis players (of which Serena was one of the first) that's bigger, stronger and faster than those of the Hingis era. They play power tennis themselves, their used to playing power tennis and yeah, Serena's going to lose to some of them. Just like JHH, Dementieva (who's still perfect, BTW), Mauresmo, etc. all of whom have lost to players ranked far below them this year.

I've maintained all along that the Williams sisters "problems" are really reflective of the fact that the rest of the tour has caught up with them. Frankly, I think that so many players have had to change their approach to the game to compete says more about the Williams sisters greatness than any won loss record ever could.

That's not at all what I was trying to say, but I appreciate your opinion Max. :lol:

CoryAnnAvants#1
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:31 PM
:haha: I bet you haven't even seen a snippet of the match. You lost all credibility with that line.

I haven't seen this match against Sun, no. I have seen her match against Jill at Wimbledon though and her other US Open matches. Her slow movement isn't the result of injury. It's the result of carrying about 15-20 pounds more than a pro athlete should have on them.

Secondly, Serena only looks at her knee WHEN SHE IS LOSING. In her first three rounds of the Open, she moved fine, looked fine...once it was sort of obvious Venus was going to beat her at the Open, she starts walking gingerly in between points and gazing down at her knee. Not during the points, mind you. After them. I don't doubt that her knee might be a little sore, but she can compete. A lot of this is just drama and performing and putting on a show for the fans. If her knee were really that bad, she'd take an injury time-out or just pull out of the damn match.

Stamp Paid
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:34 PM
This is getting boring. The same shit over and over again!!

Im tired of defending her against this bullshit. Yes, she is whatever you want her to be CoryAnnAvants.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:39 PM
Whoever said she was above anything?? You assume she feels that way. Who are you to say what she needs to do? Did you ever win anything on the WTA tour, let alone 7 GS titles? No, I didn't think so. Therefore, you are nobody to be saying what she does and does not need to do and you just need to accept that.

Who are you to saying that what she is doing at the moment is working perfectly fine? It's a matter of opinion. You're entitled to disagree with mine just as much as I'm entitled to disagree with yours. Don't be an asshole about it. Moving on...

When was the last time Serena played an event that wasn't Tier I or II? She's played TWO events lower than Tier II in her entire career. Her debut tournament in 1995 (Quebec City), and then Oklahoma City in 1998. Granted, you don't have to play a Tier III when you're ranked #1 in the world, but Serena's not even in the top 10 anymore. She has to start smaller and work her way back up. She can't just walk right in and take any tournament she desires anymore. She's in the worst slump of her career now and sometimes that just means swallowing your pride and bumping down a level.

silverwhite
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:41 PM
I haven't seen this match against Sun, no. I have seen her match against Jill at Wimbledon though and her other US Open matches. Her slow movement isn't the result of injury. It's the result of carrying about 15-20 pounds more than a pro athlete should have on them.

Secondly, Serena only looks at her knee WHEN SHE IS LOSING. In her first three rounds of the Open, she moved fine, looked fine...once it was sort of obvious Venus was going to beat her at the Open, she starts walking gingerly in between points and gazing down at her knee. Not during the points, mind you. After them. I don't doubt that her knee might be a little sore, but she can compete. A lot of this is just drama and performing and putting on a show for the fans. If her knee were really that bad, she'd take an injury time-out or just pull out of the damn match.

Umm, yeah. That's why she's also serving like Kapros. Of course, you know, when you want to put up an act, you have to do it all the way. Besides moving slowly, she also has to put in powderpuff serves to pretend that her knee is hurting, never mind that the opponent is sure to smack the return. :rolleyes:

WF4EVER
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:43 PM
Hi, :wavey: I was just wondering, if you think you can run Venus and Serena's lives and careers better than they have, why don't you apply for the job? :) I'm sure they could use your expert advice. I don't know how they have survived on the WTA tour for as long as they have without you. You seem to know their party schedules, as well as their practice and travel schedules and how they should be handled. Maybe you can help them get their act together. Their performance this year has been pitiful, only winning one slam each, shame on them. I know that you and only you can help them improve upon that.

Or, maybe we as bystanders don't really know what's going on, and if we are fans just have faith in our players. Everyone goes through a slump or two in their careers. After 12 GS titles and numerous other titles together, I have faith that both sisters know what to do to get back where they want to be, and if they don't know, I'm sure they know where to go for advice. I leave it to them and try not to speculate.

Typical. You should spend more time in sensible analysis than jumping to Venus and Serena's defense for everything. Most of the Williams fans who have comeinto this thread have done so to tell off the person who started this thread in one way or another.

Since this is a discussion board I know I'm well within my rights to express my opinion. It's not "If you don't like it, blah blah blah", it's "I don't care if you or any other Williams fan likes it." You have a right to your opinions and I have a right to mine.

I don't have to defend Venus or Serena for anything they do or don't do. Frankly I leave that up to the passionate fans like you who respond to any criticism of the sisters with antagonism.

V-MAC
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:44 PM
I think that for Serena, winning the Aus Open title this year turned out to be a curse for her as it lulled her into a false sense of security that her game was up to scratch when it clearly wasn't :( I hope she takes time out to fully recover and rest her mind away from tennis for the rest of the season, then come back strong again next year :bounce:

TonyP
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:51 PM
I have a different viewpoint. I don't think Serena is lazy. Nobody could become number one in the world in tennis and be lazy.

I think Serena's lack of conditioning and seeming lack of effort at times more reflects her level of interest in the sport of tennis.

Despite all that she says about being devoted to the sport --and some of it she says because it is expected of her --tennis is not the be all, end all of life for her. I think that she likes being a celebrity more than she does a tennis player. I think she also really envisions herself as an actress, although I think she should have been around HOllywood enough now to know how difficult that is.

I also think she suffers from a distinct lack of hunger. Once she really wanted to get to the top of tennis. Now, she has been there, done that, and looking for other challenges. What probably keeps her in tennis is the fact that she has not caught fire yet in Hollywood and she would have a lot of time on her hands if she dropped off the tour.

Lastly, of course, there's money. There are a lot of girls from Eastern Europe, Russia and China right now who see tennis as a ticket to the good life. Serena already has a lifetime pass to the good life with what she has made and there is little motivation to work her backside off to get more money.

Ordinarily, respect and just old fashioned competitiveness would be enough for many women in her position, but I don't think she has formed many bonds with other players on the tour, other than her sister, so you don't see the kinds of rivarly with her that you see with the Russians, for instance, or between the two Belgian stars.

Frankly, there isn't much keeping Serena in tennis right now except the lack of a clear cut exit strategy, which probably won't exist until she figures out something else she wants to do. That probably means show business, but that's a very risky direction in which to commit herself.

Experimentee
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:56 PM
Top players all get injured and have bad losses. You dont see people calling them lazy :rolleyes:
Lets face it, this happens to everyone. Haters should get over it.

creep
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:56 PM
I have a different viewpoint. I don't think Serena is lazy. Nobody could become number one in the world in tennis and be lazy.

I think Serena's lack of conditioning and seeming lack of effort at times more reflects her level of interest in the sport of tennis.

Despite all that she says about being devoted to the sport --and some of it she says because it is expected of her --tennis is not the be all, end all of life for her. I think that she likes being a celebrity more than she does a tennis player. I think she also really envisions herself as an actress, although I think she should have been around HOllywood enough now to know how difficult that is.

I also think she suffers from a distinct lack of hunger. Once she really wanted to get to the top of tennis. Now, she has been there, done that, and looking for other challenges. What probably keeps her in tennis is the fact that she has not caught fire yet in Hollywood and she would have a lot of time on her hands if she dropped off the tour.

Lastly, of course, there's money. There are a lot of girls from Eastern Europe, Russia and China right now who see tennis as a ticket to the good life. Serena already has a lifetime pass to the good life with what she has made and there is little motivation to work her backside off to get more money.

Ordinarily, respect and just old fashioned competitiveness would be enough for many women in her position, but I don't think she has formed many bonds with other players on the tour, other than her sister, so you don't see the kinds of rivarly with her that you see with the Russians, for instance, or between the two Belgian stars.

Frankly, there isn't much keeping Serena in tennis right now except the lack of a clear cut exit strategy, which probably won't exist until she figures out something else she wants to do. That probably means show business, but that's a very risky direction in which to commit herself.

You think she's been there done that, bought the T-shirt with tennis?

Denise4925
Sep 22nd, 2005, 06:25 PM
Who are you to saying that what she is doing at the moment is working perfectly fine? It's a matter of opinion. You're entitled to disagree with mine just as much as I'm entitled to disagree with yours. Don't be an asshole about it. Moving on...

:haha: When did I say what she is doing at the moment is working perfectly fine? I'm not speculating on anything because I don't know what's going on with her and I'm not going to speculate on what she should be or should not be doing. :rolleyes: Moving on...

When was the last time Serena played an event that wasn't Tier I or II? She's played TWO events lower than Tier II in her entire career. Her debut tournament in 1995 (Quebec City), and then Oklahoma City in 1998. Granted, you don't have to play a Tier III when you're ranked #1 in the world, but Serena's not even in the top 10 anymore. She has to start smaller and work her way back up. She can't just walk right in and take any tournament she desires anymore. She's in the worst slump of her career now and sometimes that just means swallowing your pride and bumping down a level.

:tape:

Denise4925
Sep 22nd, 2005, 06:28 PM
I haven't seen this match against Sun, no. I have seen her match against Jill at Wimbledon though and her other US Open matches. Her slow movement isn't the result of injury. It's the result of carrying about 15-20 pounds more than a pro athlete should have on them.

Secondly, Serena only looks at her knee WHEN SHE IS LOSING. In her first three rounds of the Open, she moved fine, looked fine...once it was sort of obvious Venus was going to beat her at the Open, she starts walking gingerly in between points and gazing down at her knee. Not during the points, mind you. After them. I don't doubt that her knee might be a little sore, but she can compete. A lot of this is just drama and performing and putting on a show for the fans. If her knee were really that bad, she'd take an injury time-out or just pull out of the damn match.
:tape: :banghead:

Denise4925
Sep 22nd, 2005, 06:33 PM
Typical. You should spend more time in sensible analysis than jumping to Venus and Serena's defense for everything. Most of the Williams fans who have comeinto this thread have done so to tell off the person who started this thread in one way or another.

Since this is a discussion board I know I'm well within my rights to express my opinion. It's not "If you don't like it, blah blah blah", it's "I don't care if you or any other Williams fan likes it." You have a right to your opinions and I have a right to mine.

I don't have to defend Venus or Serena for anything they do or don't do. Frankly I leave that up to the passionate fans like you who respond to any criticism of the sisters with antagonism.
That's good, because it's obvious you're always on the critical bandwagon, so defending them would be out of the question. :rolleyes:

JenCpLvr
Sep 22nd, 2005, 10:16 PM
That's good, because it's obvious you're always on the critical bandwagon, so defending them would be out of the question. :rolleyes:

No, WF4ever has a very valid point. ALL YOU DO is praise them with no criticism. Even when my beloved Jennifer was out of shape, I admitted that she had too much pudge and needed to get her act together.

You lose credibility with people with you don't interject criticism as a part of your analysis... EVER!

I've always thought you were just one of those people who jumped on the Williams bandwagon with no real input or importance. At least most Williams fans are insightful.

Denise4925
Sep 22nd, 2005, 10:34 PM
No, WF4ever has a very valid point. ALL YOU DO is praise them with no criticism. Even when my beloved Jennifer was out of shape, I admitted that she had too much pudge and needed to get her act together.

You lose credibility with people with you don't interject criticism as a part of your analysis... EVER!

I've always thought you were just one of those people who jumped on the Williams bandwagon with no real input or importance. At least most Williams fans are insightful.
Do you read absolutely every single post I make or have you read every single post I've ever made in this forum? No, so you don't know what I do all the time with regard to the WS. :rolleyes:

:haha: You're one to talk of no real input or importance. Especially with regard to the WS, honey.

Let's take a poll of the WS fans and see who has more credibility, me or you. You see, I really don't care about anyone else's opinion of them. When are you people going to get that through your heads? :banghead: :lol:

GoDominique
Sep 22nd, 2005, 10:36 PM
I saw three points of the match on CNN and Serena was totally out of sorts.
Instead of running, she WALKED. And served with 60 MPH.

It just doesn't make sense. If it's because of her knee, why is she playing in the first place?
If it's because of (serious!) lack of fitness, again, why is she playing? And then she could at least try to serve properly.

So I have no idea what's going through her mind on court. Neither do her fans, it seems.

Joseosu19
Sep 22nd, 2005, 10:39 PM
This thread isn't to bash Serena. It is a testiment to her true potential...

If you truly believe that Serena is working her ass off, practicing and training, then you cannot believe that Serena is truly one of the best players ever, let alone right now.

Serena has more talent than anyone on the tour...The choice is hers on whether she wants to be on top or not.

Infiniti2001
Sep 22nd, 2005, 11:00 PM
I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. If you are healthy, your skills stay with you, lazy or not. In any highly professional activity, most of the training is done long before one turns professional. There's no way Serena's skills have deserted her totally because she is lazy :rolleyes:

terjw
Sep 22nd, 2005, 11:04 PM
Whoever said she was above anything?? You assume she feels that way. Who are you to say what she needs to do? Did you ever win anything on the WTA tour, let alone 7 GS titles? No, I didn't think so. Therefore, you are nobody to be saying what she does and does not need to do and you just need to accept that.

Cory and WF4 make interesting observations and I for one enjoy reading their posts. I know the standard reply from Serena fans: "she's got 7 GS titles and won the AO and everything will be fine" argument. Let's hear some other viewpoints. Cory made a constructive point that maybe she should enter some tier 3 competitions. This is a forum and I want to hear these other opinions The board would be pretty empty if we had to win something on the WTA tour before we were allowed to post.

Personally I think the Serena fans and possibly Serena herself really underestimate just how difficult it is to come back. Doesn't matter how many slams she has got - I think it's about 50 times harder than it was to get to a dominating #1 in the first place in 2002. How many other great players ever manage to come back? I can't comment on whether she's lazy - I doubt it - or whether she's injured. Though the longer an injury goes on history shows the harder it is to come back.

Rub
Sep 23rd, 2005, 02:03 AM
yeah... i hope she works harder because she has a great potential!

Joseosu19
Sep 23rd, 2005, 02:13 AM
I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. If you are healthy, your skills stay with you, lazy or not. In any highly professional activity, most of the training is done long before one turns professional. There's no way Serena's skills have deserted her totally because she is lazy :rolleyes:
Are you kidding me?