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View Full Version : Has the bar been raised too high for Serena?


Calimero377
Sep 21st, 2005, 05:33 PM
Probably Screamerova and the Belgians have raised the bar in women's tennis too much for Serena to be competitive on the highest level any longer. Upcoming players aren't afraid anymore, MaScrea and the Belgian are their role models and they know how to cope with Serena. Tennis is another game now compared to the early 21st century (when Willy sisters dominated). The game has moved on! Today's players are athletic AND are able to keep the ball in the field on a constant basis.

BTW, Serena's multiple off-court interests (the design company, her Hollywood career, philantropy) don't help either. And we must not forget the ankle injury from last year!

Is her time over?

hablo
Sep 21st, 2005, 05:44 PM
:baby:

vogus
Sep 21st, 2005, 05:48 PM
BTW, Serena's multiple off-court interests (the design company, her Hollywood career, philantropy) don't help either. And we must not forget the ankle injury from last year!

Is her time over?


yeah Serena's cutting edge fashion company is the talk of Milan, and she's such a hot item in Hollywood now with all those invitations to star in feature films. Plus she's got that irrepressible instinct for helping those less fortunate than herself. It's gotta be tough on her time-wise.

ezekiel
Sep 21st, 2005, 05:49 PM
OMG Serena, what the hell happened!!! :rolleyes:
where did things go horribly wrong? :rolleyes:

mn73
Sep 21st, 2005, 05:53 PM
Serena simply isn't letting her injuries recover enough. I don't know why she has suddenly decided to keep pushing on through injuries. In the past she had ages off to recover. She needs to rest until she is clear of injury and pain and then get in shape before she comes back.

Pengwin
Sep 21st, 2005, 05:54 PM
I don't think Cali expects a serious response :shrug:

SelesFan70
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:10 PM
No one will ever touch Stephanie Graf, don't worry Cali...your endless threads of oddball stats still prove that Stephanie is the greatest of all time! :haha:

AsGoodAsNew
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:16 PM
i think serena has given up. it's sad. the legends of the game never gave up. that separates great palyers from the greatest. and serena could have been the latter.

Helen Lawson
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:18 PM
I just don't think Serena gives a shit right now. And I didn't think Steffi gave a shit in the early 90s either, but her "time" was not over.

tennisbum79
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:18 PM
I don't think Cali expects a serious response :shrug:
Agree with you there.
For Serena's talent, the current bar isn't even set high enough.

kosmikgroove
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:19 PM
LoL umm the question is somewhat asanine, but the notion that Tian tian Sun has raised above Serena's pervious level is comical at best. no dispresct intended but tian tian is ranked properly where she belongs.

henree
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:26 PM
I just don't think Serena gives a shit right now. And I didn't think Steffi gave a shit in the early 90s either, but her "time" was not over.

I agree. Now that the slams are over, Serena is just going through the motions. Her heart is not in it. Her stupid Nike contract is the only thing making her even show up on the court now. :sad:

irma
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:29 PM
I agree. Now that the slams are over, Serena is just going through the motions. Her heart is not in it. Her stupid Nike contract is the only thing making her even show up on the court now. :sad:

Nike is forcing her to play? :confused:

Veenut
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:31 PM
Is her time over?

Oh yea, It has been long over since Janurary. I don't know why she bothers to set foot on a tennis court again. Words of wisdom from Calimero, Serena your time is over.

Why are you so desperate to see Serena's tennis career over? I take it Graf suffered numerous injuries as well and managed to play until 30, therefore Serena should be allowed to play as long if she wants to.

DragonFlame
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:41 PM
omg what a typical thread by calli :lol: , he's just trying to get back at you people for saying serena raised the bar in woman's tennis. ;) he's paying you back with the same treatment now, please don't fall for it... thank you :p

tennislover
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:47 PM
Is her time over?

yes it is. It's Martina's time! ;)

bandabou
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:54 PM
Nice, cali...so childish. :lol: Touché.

vogus
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:56 PM
Nike is forcing her to play? :confused:


Serena probably needs to meet certain tournament committments to fulfill her multi-million dollar contract. Plus the Chinese probably paid her a nice appearance fee for showing up - especially with Davey pulling out, that made Serena's appearance that much more valuable to them.

Stamp Paid
Sep 21st, 2005, 06:56 PM
No, was the bar raised too high for Graf in 1997?
This is the same as Serena in 2005. Except Serena didnt win a Tier 3, Serena won a slam.

Sanneriet
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:04 PM
Serena probably needs to meet certain tournament committments to fulfill her multi-million dollar contract. Plus the Chinese probably paid her a nice appearance fee for showing up - especially with Davey pulling out, that made Serena's appearance that much more valuable to them.


Oh, they don't pay appearance fees in the WTA.:devil: Otherwise, people might speculate that players were taking the money and tanking after a first round loss (Agassi, Kafelnikov).


Actually, I remember reading that her contract was VERY heavy in incentive clauses and bonuses for meeting certain pre-determined criteria. I suspect that she received a nice bonus for winning the AO, but hasn't made much since then.

Carmen Mairena
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:07 PM
Yes, Serena is useless now! :joking:

vogus
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:12 PM
Oh, they don't pay appearance fees in the WTA.:devil: Otherwise, people might speculate that players were taking the money and tanking after a first round loss (Agassi, Kafelnikov).

Actually, I remember reading that her contract was VERY heavy in incentive clauses and bonuses for meeting certain pre-determined criteria. I suspect that she received a nice bonus for winning the AO, but hasn't made much since then.


yeah, i'm sorry, did i say appearance fee? It was a tournament promotion fee. Totally different. :lol:

middy
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:15 PM
:yawn: players go through slumps big deal

starr
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:21 PM
Oh, they don't pay appearance fees in the WTA.:devil: Otherwise, people might speculate that players were taking the money and tanking after a first round loss (Agassi, Kafelnikov).


Dream on. They've been paying under the table appearance fees since long before Stephanie Graf got caught with her hand in the cookie jar. (She of course claimed innocence and blamed it all on her wicked father. :lol: )

Sanneriet
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:24 PM
Dream on. They've been paying under the table appearance fees since long before Stephanie Graf got caught with her hand in the cookie jar. (She of course claimed innocence and blamed it all on her wicked father. :lol: )


I know that. And if this were an ATP match, Serena would be accused of tanking it. That is why they don't want to admit it.

Piotr'ek
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:27 PM
omg for the first time ever i like what calimero wrote :tape:
but the way he is talking about masha is just :fiery: :p

vwfan
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:29 PM
:rolleyes: Serena lost a match trying to play her way back into match fitness. It took Davenport almost two years after her knee surgery to be a slam contender. Serena did it almost immediately. Get real. She'll be fine. She is just impatient to return to form and return to playing.
And no matter what statistics you can mount, Serena is already better than Graf!

Cris Senior
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:32 PM
Calimero: The bar has been set a little high for Serena but not as high as it was set for your favorite Angela Merkel who showed a very lousy first and second serves, low mobility, no power at all and mentally weak especially when facing break points.
I hope she fired you from her cottery of coaches for giving lousy advice.
On the men and positive German side, the very promissing Lafontaine, served a few very impressive aces.
I am sorry that since Angela lost, your chances to come out of the can in Munich on parole are gone. But you can use the time to shed pounds out of your fat stomach just like Patty's Hofmann did.

AsGoodAsNew
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:54 PM
No, was the bar raised too high for Graf in 1997?
This is the same as Serena in 2005. Except Serena didnt win a Tier 3, Serena won a slam.
but not again

Calimero377
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:13 PM
No, was the bar raised too high for Graf in 1997?
This is the same as Serena in 2005. Except Serena didnt win a Tier 3, Serena won a slam.


Graf had reconstructive knee surgery in 97, Serena had no serious injury.
Graf was #1 or #2 from spring 1987 until spring of 1997. 10 years.
That's the difference ....

Calimero377
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:20 PM
Calimero: The bar has been set a little high for Serena but not as high as it was set for your favorite Angela Merkel who showed a very lousy first and second serves, low mobility, no power at all and mentally weak especially when facing break points.
I hope she fired you from her cottery of coaches for giving lousy advice.
On the men and positive German side, the very promissing Lafontaine, served a few very impressive aces.
I am sorry that since Angela lost, your chances to come out of the can in Munich on parole are gone. But you can use the time to shed pounds out of your fat stomach just like Patty's Hofmann did.



CDU/CSU (Angela's party): 35.1 %
SPD (Shredder's party): 34.3 %

CDU /CSU & FDP (parties supporting Angela): 45.0 %
SPD & Greens (parties supporting Shredder): 42.4 %
Communists (Lafontaine's party): 8.6 %

Thanks. :)


BTW, who is "Patty's Hofman"? :confused:

Lemonskin.
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:37 PM
yeah Serena's cutting edge fashion company is the talk of Milan, and she's such a hot item in Hollywood now with all those invitations to star in feature films. Plus she's got that irrepressible instinct for helping those less fortunate than herself. It's gotta be tough on her time-wise.
Is her time over TENNIS wise he means :retard: and if you can't tell he meant that, go back to 1st grade.

Cybelle Darkholme
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:42 PM
Probably Screamerova and the Belgians have raised the bar in women's tennis too much for Serena to be competitive on the highest level any longer. Upcoming players aren't afraid anymore, MaScrea and the Belgian are their role models and they know how to cope with Serena. Tennis is another game now compared to the early 21st century (when Willy sisters dominated). The game has moved on! Today's players are athletic AND are able to keep the ball in the field on a constant basis.

BTW, Serena's multiple off-court interests (the design company, her Hollywood career, philantropy) don't help either. And we must not forget the ankle injury from last year!

Is her time over?


Hmm, I don't believe so but I know it was raised to high for graf which is why she retired.

Calimero377
Sep 21st, 2005, 08:50 PM
:rolleyes: Serena lost a match trying to play her way back into match fitness. It took Davenport almost two years after her knee surgery to be a slam contender. Serena did it almost immediately. ...

You don't want to compare Serena to Davenport, do you??? :eek:

....
And no matter what statistics you can mount, Serena is already better than Graf!

In what department?
Designing?
Acting?
:confused:

Calimero377
Sep 21st, 2005, 09:00 PM
Hmm, I don't believe so but I know it was raised to high for graf which is why she retired.

In 1998 everybody was talking of the new kids on the block, Hingis, Serena and Venus.
In 1999 good old Steffi - far over the hill and with reconstructed knee and only being able to do about 50 % of her usual exercising program - destroyed Hingis at FO, beat Venus soundly at Wimbledon and OVERTOOK Venus and Serena in the WTA rankings. 12 years after she had made the #1 spot for the first time ....

What do you think a Graf in 88/89 or 95/96 form would have done with those young pretenders?
Murder .....
:lol: :lol:

CrossCourt~Rally
Sep 21st, 2005, 09:19 PM
Graf had reconstructive knee surgery in 97, Serena had no serious injury.
Graf was #1 or #2 from spring 1987 until spring of 1997. 10 years.
That's the difference ....

You conveniently forgot the MONICA SELES DOMAINANCE ERA from 1990- 1993 where she was no 1 and won 8 slams :lol: :wavey:

actor1
Sep 21st, 2005, 09:21 PM
Probably Screamerova and the Belgians have raised the bar in women's tennis too much for Serena to be competitive on the highest level any longer. Upcoming players aren't afraid anymore, MaScrea and the Belgian are their role models and they know how to cope with Serena. Tennis is another game now compared to the early 21st century (when Willy sisters dominated). The game has moved on! Today's players are athletic AND are able to keep the ball in the field on a constant basis.

BTW, Serena's multiple off-court interests (the design company, her Hollywood career, philantropy) don't help either. And we must not forget the ankle injury from last year!

Is her time over?
you know what? i agree to a point. im taling as a venus willims fan. i alway thought to myself that venus was the most talented sister. and, to be frank...the best woman i've ever seen. ever. the one with the most talent. i dont care what her father said, or what the media is trying to tell you. when serena came along, it was so freaking easy for her, cause big sister paved a big way for her. then, lil sister did something sneaky and bumped her own sister out of the way. though no fault of serena's , she just got what venus gave her. five straight grand slams titles. you cannot deny if the real... if you believe what sprilea said, fuckking venus williams showed up..., most of those were hers. am i the only one who thinks that a great playing venus...versus a great playing serena, will be won by the queen?
power over finese all the time.

DragonFlame
Sep 21st, 2005, 09:32 PM
OMG! :haha: amazing! :lol:

Dawn Marie
Sep 21st, 2005, 09:44 PM
Of course the bar has not been raised too high for Serena, because she is still one of the best players on the WTA tour right now. Alot of the top players go through injury periods with Graf not being the exception.


Serena and Venus both raised the bar in women's tennis. Graf helped raise the bar during her era like V@S did as well. Serena will overcome her demons and win again,just like Graf did.

:)

ezekiel
Sep 21st, 2005, 09:47 PM
hopefully not like Graf dating back to spring of '93. I doubt Serena would have it that way :smash:

Calimero377
Sep 21st, 2005, 09:52 PM
You conveniently forgot the MONICA SELES DOMAINANCE ERA from 1990- 1993 where she was no 1 and won 8 slams :lol: :wavey:


At the end of 1990 Graf led in the WTA rankings by 74 points.
At the end of 1991 Seles led in the WTA rankings by 58 points.
At the end of 1992 Seles led in the WTA rankings by 32 points.
In April 1993, just before The Stabbing, Seles led in the WTA rankings by 21 points.

When Seles was #1 (for 106 weeks = 2 years) Graf won all the Wimbledon titles and was 3-2 H2H against Seles.

No, I haven't forgotten that time. Graf slumped severely and was only #2.

Pengwin
Sep 21st, 2005, 09:59 PM
The bar has been raised way too high for Graf to even consider coming back...

PaulieM
Sep 21st, 2005, 10:04 PM
is calimero an idiot? yeah i think so :)

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2005, 10:11 PM
:yawn:

frenchie
Sep 21st, 2005, 10:14 PM
Serena rised the bar
Serena's level of play was soooo high in 2002/2003. Sharapova, Lindsay, Momo have never, and will never play the same level in their careers!!

Of course Serena hasn't played that well since she returned after her injury in 2004, but she isn't that far from those I just mentionned. The proof is Serena beat them only with her heart and desire (without a perfect tennis)

Her main problem at the moment is her fitness which is a big part of her game. At her peak, she was unbelievable! Now she's slow and lazy with her footwork!
IMO it's just a matter of time

iWill
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:26 PM
Probably Screamerova and the Belgians have raised the bar in women's tennis too much for Serena to be competitive on the highest level any longer. Upcoming players aren't afraid anymore, MaScrea and the Belgian are their role models and they know how to cope with Serena. Tennis is another game now compared to the early 21st century (when Willy sisters dominated). The game has moved on! Today's players are athletic AND are able to keep the ball in the field on a constant basis.

BTW, Serena's multiple off-court interests (the design company, her Hollywood career, philantropy) don't help either. And we must not forget the ankle injury from last year!

Is her time over?
I read the first sentence and that was enough. Since when did SHARAPOVA and THE BELGIANS raise the bar. Serena and Venus rasied the bar and Maria and the Belgians fell in line like everyone else. Let's be real!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

RenaSlam.
Sep 21st, 2005, 11:59 PM
Serena rised the bar
Serena's level of play was soooo high in 2002/2003. Sharapova, Lindsay, Momo have never, and will never play the same level in their careers!!

Of course Serena hasn't played that well since she returned after her injury in 2004, but she isn't that far from those I just mentionned. The proof is Serena beat them only with her heart and desire (without a perfect tennis)

Her main problem at the moment is her fitness which is a big part of her game. At her peak, she was unbelievable! Now she's slow and lazy with her footwork!
IMO it's just a matter of time

Excellent post! :wavey:

rjd1111
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:25 AM
No one will ever touch Stephanie Graf, don't worry Cali...your endless threads of oddball stats still prove that Stephanie is the greatest of all time! :haha:


Fuzzy Math

rjd1111
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:28 AM
I don't think Cali expects a serious response :shrug:


But, I will remind him of that post in the near future.

Mother_Marjorie
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:42 AM
No one will ever touch Stephanie Graf, don't worry Cali...your endless threads of oddball stats still prove that Stephanie is the greatest of all time! :haha:

I think it will be some decades before any WTA professional will be able to end their careers with the same Grand Slam numbers as Graf and Court in singles. Similarly, its the same legacy Helen Wills-Moody left tennis in the 30's.

Mother_Marjorie
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:45 AM
I read the first sentence and that was enough. Since when did SHARAPOVA and THE BELGIANS raise the bar. Serena and Venus rasied the bar and Maria and the Belgians fell in line like everyone else. Let's be real!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

That's not exactly being "real". Fact being, until all their careers are over, no one will know whether or not these women raised any bar historically.

Mother_Marjorie
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:47 AM
Serena rised the bar
Serena's level of play was soooo high in 2002/2003. Sharapova, Lindsay, Momo have never, and will never play the same level in their careers.

Wow, we should all be awe that you have a time machine into the year 2015.

irma
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:17 AM
is calimero an idiot? yeah i think so :)

the idiots are the ones who fell for it because it gives them a chance to insult the (retired) players they dislike/hate/whatever too :rolleyes:

~ The Leopard ~
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:50 AM
:zzz:

Jennifer North
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:54 AM
not fair, Serena has been raising lots of bars lately... chocolate bars, that is... :lol: :tape:

CrossCourt~Rally
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:56 AM
the idiots are the ones who fell for it because it gives them a chance to insult the (retired) players they dislike/hate/whatever too :rolleyes:

And the even bigger idiot is the ONE responding to the "Idiots" :eek: :lol:

Pureracket
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:57 AM
not fair, Serena has been raising lots of bars lately... chocolate bars, that is... :lol: :tape:We know. . .we know.

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Sep 22nd, 2005, 04:58 AM
:rolleyes:

another anti williams thread?

irma
Sep 22nd, 2005, 05:11 AM
And the even bigger idiot is the ONE responding to the "Idiots" :eek: :lol:

true :lol:

Williams Rulez
Sep 22nd, 2005, 07:49 AM
Probably Screamerova and the Belgians have raised the bar in women's tennis too much for Serena to be competitive on the highest level any longer. Upcoming players aren't afraid anymore, MaScrea and the Belgian are their role models and they know how to cope with Serena. Tennis is another game now compared to the early 21st century (when Willy sisters dominated). The game has moved on! Today's players are athletic AND are able to keep the ball in the field on a constant basis.

BTW, Serena's multiple off-court interests (the design company, her Hollywood career, philantropy) don't help either. And we must not forget the ankle injury from last year!

Is her time over?oh yeah sure.. and u're talking abt someone who has won a slam this year.. :rolleyes:

Calimero377
Sep 22nd, 2005, 06:14 PM
oh yeah sure.. and u're talking abt someone who has won a slam this year.. :rolleyes:


Against DAVENPORT, please!

:lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 23rd, 2005, 07:04 PM
Against DAVENPORT, please!

:lol:

Depends on how you look at it. In my opinion whoever wins a slam has beaten the other 127 ladies in the draw. Besides,Davenport has been the #1 ranked player for most of the last two years or so. Whether she was a mediocre,good or great #1 is irrelevant. You only have to beat whoever is on the other side of the net. If that person ain't good enough it's their problem and not Serena's (or whoever it is that ends up winning). :smoke:

RenaSlam.
Sep 23rd, 2005, 07:16 PM
Considering Serena raised the bar herself, no. :)

serenafan08
Sep 23rd, 2005, 07:18 PM
That's proposterous. Serena's the one who set the bar, and the rest of the tour is just now clearing it. Maria and the Belgians have some work to do if they want to "raise the bar." Serena's not healthy right now. Once she gets fit again, she'll be right back near the top of the game.

Vamos Feńa
Sep 23rd, 2005, 07:33 PM
Screamerova :haha: :haha:

CrossCourt~Rally
Sep 23rd, 2005, 09:07 PM
true :lol:

;)