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bandabou
Jul 11th, 2005, 02:36 PM
To me she is. The way she destroyed Kim, who was no.1 or no.2 at the time, in those finals and then Mary this year. That was much much tougher competition than Steffi and Martina were facing back in their days.

TF Chipmunk
Jul 11th, 2005, 04:48 PM
For the last time, WHO THE HELL IS ENNA?!

Calimero377
Jul 11th, 2005, 06:42 PM
To me she is. The way she destroyed Kim, who was no.1 or no.2 at the time, in those finals and then Mary this year. That was much much tougher competition than Steffi and Martina were facing back in their days.


No, Steffi is #1 peak player (eg. FO 88, Wim 88, Wim 89, Wim 92, AO 94, USO 96). And Navi is a little bit ahead of Enna as for now (IMO, the best is still to come for Enna though).

Geisha
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:20 PM
I don't think so.

Serena def. Hingis 6-4, 6-0 @ Miami QF 02
Serena def. Hingis 6-3, 6-2 @ US Open SF 01
Serena def. Davenport 6-3, 7-5 @ US Open SF 02
Serena def. Davenport 6-1, 6-2 @ Indian Wells QF 01
Serena def. Venus 6-4, 6-3 @ US Open F 02
Serena def. Dementieva 6-1, 6-1 @ Miami 04
Serena def. Pierce 6-1, 6-1 @ Roland Garros 02
Serena def. Mauresmo 6-1, 6-2 @ Roland Garros 03
Serena def. Henin-Hardenne 6-3, 6-2 @ Wimbledon 03
Serena def. Mauresmo 6-2, 6-1 @ Wimbledon 02

This is peak dominance.

Pengwin
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:22 PM
To me she is. The way she destroyed Kim, who was no.1 or no.2 at the time, in those finals and then Mary this year. That was much much tougher competition than Steffi and Martina were facing back in their days.

Are you being serious? :eek:

Super-mega-retardo-dumbo :o

Geisha
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:24 PM
To me she is. The way she destroyed Kim, who was no.1 or no.2 at the time, in those finals and then Mary this year. That was much much tougher competition than Steffi and Martina were facing back in their days.

There is no doubt that Justine is one of the best/most talented players on Clay of the last three years, or so. But, she hasn't really done anything extraordinary on hardcourts. I mean, since 2001 (when Venus and Serena began dominating) Venus and Serena have won a combined nine Grand Slam titles- Justine didn't have to beat them in three of her four Slam wins (she beat Serena in the SF of RG) and the time she did play Serena, she won 7-5 in the third on Serena's worst surface and Justine's best.

I mean, Venus and Serena are in the top four best players of the new millenium and Justine didn't have to play them too much during her peak. I think you need a little more time to determine if JHH is the best at her peak.

KV
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:28 PM
To me she is. The way she destroyed Kim, who was no.1 or no.2 at the time, in those finals and then Mary this year. That was much much tougher competition than Steffi and Martina were facing back in their days.About Steffi she'd pretty good competiton with Seles and Hingis. Of course way less from 93-95. As for Martina, Mandlikova on fire is one of the best competition you can have. Evert was good competiton too. A little less Sukova/Shriver were also good competition.
OF COURSE, it's hard to compare tennis generations.

Calimero377
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:32 PM
I don't think so.

Serena def. Hingis 6-4, 6-0 @ Miami QF 02
Serena def. Hingis 6-3, 6-2 @ US Open SF 01
Serena def. Davenport 6-3, 7-5 @ US Open SF 02
Serena def. Davenport 6-1, 6-2 @ Indian Wells QF 01
Serena def. Venus 6-4, 6-3 @ US Open F 02
Serena def. Dementieva 6-1, 6-1 @ Miami 04
Serena def. Pierce 6-1, 6-1 @ Roland Garros 02
Serena def. Mauresmo 6-1, 6-2 @ Roland Garros 03
Serena def. Henin-Hardenne 6-3, 6-2 @ Wimbledon 03
Serena def. Mauresmo 6-2, 6-1 @ Wimbledon 02

This is peak dominance.


QF in tune-ups don't count in the real tennis world.
Nor do easy wins over French grandmas or chokers.
Nor wins against sis.

Leaves us with:
Serena def. Hingis 6-3, 6-2 @ US Open SF 01
Serena def. Davenport 6-3, 7-5 @ US Open SF 02
Serena def. Henin-Hardenne 6-3, 6-2 @ Wimbledon 03
Serena def. Mauresmo 6-2, 6-1 @ Wimbledon 02


Hmm, no slam finals.
And over-the-hill Hingis, good old Davenport, choker Mauresmo only.
Enna at Wimbledon 03 is legit though.

Stamp Paid
Jul 11th, 2005, 08:33 PM
QF in tune-ups don't count in the real tennis world.
Nor do easy wins over French grandmas or chokers.
Nor wins against sis.

Leaves us with:
Serena def. Hingis 6-3, 6-2 @ US Open SF 01
Serena def. Davenport 6-3, 7-5 @ US Open SF 02
Serena def. Henin-Hardenne 6-3, 6-2 @ Wimbledon 03
Serena def. Mauresmo 6-2, 6-1 @ Wimbledon 02


Hmm, no slam finals.
And over-the-hill Hingis, good old Davenport, choker Mauresmo only.
Enna at Wimbledon 03 is legit though.

Oh wow, so Enna beating choker (Who I love :hearts: ) Clijsters in 3 of 4 slams, no Williams Sisters (the best hardcourt players of her generation) in any of her hardcourt slams, and a 30 year old Mary Pierce (altho Im sure you dont count RG 2005 as *peak*) in slam finals makes Enna's peak performance so great. And lets not forget the awesome semifinals to chokers Capriati. (Altho the Serena SF was semi legit)

Everyone who Serena beat in a slam final had won at least 3 majors. Even beating ther best grasscourter since Graf (Venus Williams) in two consecutive Wimbledon finals relatively easy (2003 injury aside.)

Lachrymarum
Jul 11th, 2005, 08:37 PM
For the last time, WHO THE HELL IS ENNA?!
Justine Henin-Hardenne (....I think).

Stamp Paid
Jul 11th, 2005, 08:47 PM
Oh but let me guess, Enna's scrappy slam wins where her serve percentage was under 50% for the entire tournament somehow give you the 'gut feeling' that her peak was third only to Navratilova and Graf. :lol: :lol:

Zippy
Jul 11th, 2005, 09:13 PM
Oh wow, so Enna beating choker (Who I love :hearts: ) Clijsters in 3 of 4 slams, no Williams Sisters (the best hardcourt players of her generation) in any of her hardcourt slams, and a 30 year old Mary Pierce (altho Im sure you dont count RG 2005 as *peak*) in slam finals makes Enna's peak performance so great. And lets not forget the awesome semifinals to chokers Capriati. (Altho the Serena SF was semi legit)

Everyone who Serena beat in a slam final had won at least 3 majors. Even beating ther best grasscourter since Graf (Venus Williams) in two consecutive Wimbledon finals relatively easy (2003 injury aside.)
No WS?
Does one count alone, or must they come in a pair to be noticed... :confused:

Well anyways, Venus participated in AO 04. I believe AO is a 'hard court' Slam :p

aNYthing
Jul 11th, 2005, 09:20 PM
:yawn:

Stamp Paid
Jul 11th, 2005, 09:20 PM
No WS?
Does one count alone, or must they come in a pair to be noticed... :confused:

Well anyways, Venus participated in AO 04. I believe AO is a 'hard court' Slam :p

I shoulda said neither instead of no :lol::lol:

Zippy
Jul 11th, 2005, 09:26 PM
I shoulda said neither instead of no :lol::lol:
Neither WS participated...:scratch:
No WS participated...:scratch:

they mean the same thing
:shrug:

Stamp Paid
Jul 11th, 2005, 09:32 PM
Neither WS participated...:scratch:
No WS participated...:scratch:

they mean the same thing
:shrug:

I dont think I made the distiction of whether the WS participated in those slams or not. The fact remains that Enna didnt beat either one of them in any of her hardcourt slam wins!

Junex
Jul 12th, 2005, 12:07 AM
I dont think I made the distiction of whether the WS participated in those slams or not. The fact remains that Enna didnt beat either one of them in any of her hardcourt slam wins!


Same could be said of Venus' Wimbledon win or Serena's AO reign!

I really dnt know why i responded to this thread as i know its just a cali bait by bandy.

actually they quite goo together in the same thread!

Stamp Paid
Jul 12th, 2005, 12:08 AM
Same could be said of Venus' Wimbledon win or Serena's AO reign!

I really dnt know why i responded to this thread as i know its just a cali bait by bandy.

actually they quite goo together in the same thread!

they do, dont they! :lol::p:lol::lol:

mboyle
Jul 12th, 2005, 12:42 AM
No, Steffi is #1 peak player (eg. FO 88, Wim 88, Wim 89, Wim 92, AO 94, USO 96). And Navi is a little bit ahead of Enna as for now (IMO, the best is still to come for Enna though).

:lol: That's hillarious:lol: . Nav has 18 slams, and won more in a row than anyone else. Henin has won two in a row, max, and has just 4 (she's not realistically going to win more than 6 or 7.)

DragonFlame
Jul 12th, 2005, 12:58 AM
:lol: That's hillarious:lol: . Nav has 18 slams, and won more in a row than anyone else. Henin has won two in a row, max, and has just 4 (she's not realistically going to win more than 6 or 7.)

first thing im going to say: never underestimate jhh. she can come back from 1-5 down against top10players and somehow she most of the time does. to me she is a player with a great allroundgame with a great mentalgame(since 2003) and i think it will still improve. especially against kuznetsova at the french in the fourth round, that was just plain amazing mental strenght^^ so i still expect great things from jhh, she's not the greatest of all times but she's still a great tennischampoin that wont be forgotten i think. what she will acomplish from here in her career? i have no idea but never underestimate her

Martian KC
Jul 12th, 2005, 01:19 AM
Duh.

bandabou
Jul 13th, 2005, 06:11 PM
To me Steffi has to thank her lucky stars that she didn't face the ' 03-' 04 Enna otherwise she would have had 13/14 majors maximum...

Paldias
Jul 13th, 2005, 06:25 PM
Henin-Hardenne Grand Slam Count: 4
Serena Williams Grand Slam Count: 7

:shrug:

bandabou
Jul 14th, 2005, 10:58 AM
Enna....no need to say more.

KINGLIRE
Jul 14th, 2005, 01:27 PM
Shows How Much Banadou Knows Not That Much

Hahahahahhahahahhhhaaaaahhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa

I Laugh In Your Face In Wellcherished Delight

tennnisfannn
Jul 14th, 2005, 02:11 PM
first thing im going to say: never underestimate jhh. she can come back from 1-5 down against top10players and somehow she most of the time does. to me she is a player with a great allroundgame with a great mentalgame(since 2003) and i think it will still improve. especially against kuznetsova at the french in the fourth round, that was just plain amazing mental strenght^^ so i still expect great things from jhh, she's not the greatest of all times but she's still a great tennischampoin that wont be forgotten i think. what she will acomplish from here in her career? i have no idea but never underestimate her
You could say the same thing about serena. When she came back for a 5/1 deficit against kim, kim was the most inform player at the time. she had cleaned up the entire indoor season, won the yEC and was considered the red hot favourite for the AO.
At her peak serena went on to win 5 of 6 slams oin the trot, who knows how many more hadn't she been injured.

bandabou
Jul 14th, 2005, 05:13 PM
One can only wonder what a peak Enna would have done during the ' 80-ies and ' 90ies...

KV
Jul 14th, 2005, 05:17 PM
One can only wonder what a peak Enna would have done during the ' 80-ies and ' 90ies...I'm confused, why are saying all this stuff. Again Navratilova had tough opposition in the 80's. Steffi Graf, too apart from 93-95.

RenaSlam.
Jul 14th, 2005, 05:37 PM
Enna is overrated. Get over it.

saki
Jul 14th, 2005, 06:55 PM
I don't know about her having more competition than Steffi/Martina (honestly, has anyone making these claims even seen any matches from the 80s/early 90s?!) but she is very good at saving her best form for the latter stages in tournaments. That said, I think I'd give Serena the edge (and I'm a Justine fan) on grounds that Serena has generally looked more solid in early matches when she was dominating than Justine has when she was.

bandabou
Jul 15th, 2005, 12:26 PM
I'm confused, why are saying all this stuff. Again Navratilova had tough opposition in the 80's. Steffi Graf, too apart from 93-95.

Weak competition....you think the Everts, Sabatini's, Mandlikova's of this world compare to an Enna?

DragonFlame
Jul 15th, 2005, 01:14 PM
Enna is overrated. Get over it.

awh come on, based on what? i can say serena is overrated too after wimbledon :rolleyes: this is just crap

Zippy
Jul 15th, 2005, 02:34 PM
You could say the same thing about serena. When she came back for a 5/1 deficit against kim, kim was the most inform player at the time. she had cleaned up the entire indoor season, won the YEC and (Kim) was considered the red hot favourite for the AO.At her peak serena went on to win 5 of 6 slams oin the trot, who knows how many more hadn't she been injured.
The statement in bold is false. True, she did do extremely well in the indoor season of 02 and she even beat a domininating Serena in the final to win the 02 YEC. But Serena was STILL considered the favorite to take AO 03. Serena was favored because she had won the last 3 Slams and the last 2 (fast court ones, mind you) without even losing a set. Sorry but even the odds makers considered Serena the favorite, though "some" considered Clijsters a close 2nd ahead of Venus.

Btw, what is "oin the trot" ?