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Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:05 PM
I think the definition of a tennis snob is a person who knows or thinks they know everything about tennis. They know all of the players, their stats, and their weaknesses and strengths. They know all shots associated with tennis and the mechanics thereof. They know all of the rules of the WTA and ITF and can quote them. They are also people who come on a tennis board and insult other tennis fans for not being as knowledgeable, or should I say are less diplomatic than need be. I think instead of trying to belittle a fellow tennis fan for their lack of all consuming tennis knowledge, a better way would be to either ask questions to inquire as to why a poster made a certain statement or say that you don't agree and give the reason why. That way, people can learn and ask questions without feeling inhibited, frustrated or defensive. I don't think statements beginning with "WRONG" or the like fosters good discussion. The only thing it fosters is arguments, which soon turn personal.

I don't know all those things above and never professed to. I am a fan of tennis, like I am a fan of football, basketball and baseball. I have favorite teams with those other sports and don't really care to watch any other team play but them, unless they are in the play-offs. I don't know the stats of all the players, etc., but I know a good team, player or game when I see it. I have enough knowledge about the sport to discuss it and most fans of those sports are eager to have a discussion without having to feel superior.

Some tennis fans such as myself either don't know all of the above because they don't have the time or don't know because they are simply not interested. That doesn't mean we are not fans and don't have the right to enter a thread to discuss it without being insulted.

Some have accused a lot of Williams fans of being just fans of the Williams' sisters and not fans of tennis. That the only reason most of us started watching tennis was because of the Williams' Sisters, and that may be true for some, but not all of us. In my opinion, that is a pigeon-holing and an unworthy accusation of an entire fan base. There's nothing wrong with the fact that some people became fans because of the Williams' Sisters. That's why they are good for the WTA because they generated a whole lot of fans to the sport. That means more revenue for the WTA and better quality tournaments. Inasmuch as that may be true for some, it is not true for all fans of the Sisters.

Some fans such as myself, have been following tennis a long time. I've stated many times that some of my old favs in the '70s were BJK, Arthur Ashe, Yvonne Goolagong, Martina Nav, Stan Smith and Ilie Nastase. A lot of you don't remember those players because they were way before your time, but they were my favs and I watched them play as much as the networks allowed back then. I even remember when Jimmy Connors and Chris Evert were a couple, and when she used to where his name on a chain around her neck when she played. I remember when and why they started calling diamond bracelets, tennis bracelets. I saw the Wimbledon finals between Jimmy Connors and Arthur Ashe live. None of this makes me an expert on tennis, but it does give me the right to call myself a real fan. Personally I lost interest in the sport when BJK and Arthur Ashe retired. My interested was renewed when I first saw Venus Williams play in 1997. My interest has steadily risen every year since then. So much so that I picked up the sport about a year ago. I am fortunate enough to have been able to join a tennis club and take lessons. My team in the 2.5 USTA ladies league won our City Championship. :) Now, I'm not saying that they are tennis snobs, but for example, I'll probably never know as much about tennis as LDV, Volcana and others because I really don't care to invest that much time. But, that doesn't mean that I don't learn when there's a civil discussion.

In conclusion, I just think with the wealth of knowledge on this tennis board, it could be a more positive learning environment and a little more inclusive.

Are you a tennis snob?

Knizzle
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:09 PM
I don't find Volcana to be a snob, but LDV sure comes off that way. Great post.

Wiggly
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:10 PM
No. For me, if you hit a decent shot (forehand, backhand, lob or volley) and you don't looks stupid it's okay... I don't really know the difference between slice, power and all this :rolleyes:

But I know some results of player, i know more statistics then RDS Tv presentator who one time siad then Sesil was from Hungary :eek:
And they don't know about rivalty between Maria vs Sesil :lol:

darrinbaker00
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:11 PM
The more I learn about the game, the more I realize I don't know. ;)

volta
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:13 PM
no. not at all. i learn something new about the game almost everytime i come here so i canīt be one

Justeenium
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:14 PM
LDV??? whose that?

Eggy probably knows the most

abayen
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:14 PM
nice post. we can definitely create an inclusive environment without necessarily agreeing with each other. i have been following tennis too for quite a while. my first match was the becker-curren 85 wimbledon final.

I think the definition of a tennis snob is a person who knows or thinks they know everything about tennis. They know all of the players, their stats, and their weaknesses and strengths. They know all shots associated with tennis and the mechanics thereof. They know all of the rules of the WTA and ITF and can quote them. They are also people who come on a tennis board and insult other tennis fans for not being as knowledgeable, or should I say are less diplomatic than need be. I think instead of trying to belittle a fellow tennis fan for their lack of all consuming tennis knowledge, a better way would be to either ask questions to inquire as to why a poster made a certain statement or say that you don't agree and give the reason why. That way, people can learn and ask questions without feeling inhibited, frustrated or defensive. I don't think statements beginning with "WRONG" or the like fosters good discussion. The only thing it fosters is arguments, which soon turn personal.

I don't know all those things above and never professed to. I am a fan of tennis, like I am a fan of football, basketball and baseball. I have favorite teams with those other sports and don't really care to watch any other team play but them, unless they are in the play-offs. I don't know the stats of all the players, etc., but I know a good team, player or game when I see it. I have enough knowledge about the sport to discuss it and most fans of those sports are eager to have a discussion without having to feel superior.

Some tennis fans such as myself either don't know all of the above because they don't have the time or don't know because they are simply not interested. That doesn't mean we are not fans and don't have the right to enter a thread to discuss it without being insulted.

Some have accused a lot of Williams fans of being just fans of the Williams' sisters and not fans of tennis. That the only reason most of us started watching tennis was because of the Williams' Sisters, and they may be true for some, but not all of us. In my opinion, that is a pigeon-holing and an unworthy accusation of an entire fan base. There's nothing wrong with the fact that some people became fans because of the Williams' Sisters. That's why they are good for the WTA because they generated a whole lot of fans to the sport. That means more revenue for the WTA and better quality tournaments. Inasmuch as that may be true for some, it is not true for all fans of the Sisters.

Some fans such as myself, have been following tennis a long time. I've stated many times that some of my old favs in the '70s were BJK, Arthur Ashe, Yvonne Goolagong, Martina Nav, Stan Smith and Ilie Nastase. A lot of you don't remember those players because they were way before your time, but they were my favs and I watched them play as much as the networks allowed back then. I even remember when Jimmy Connors and Chris Evert were a couple, and when she used to where his name on a chain around her neck when she played. I remember when and why they started calling diamond bracelets, tennis bracelets. I saw the Wimbledon finals between Jimmy Connors and Arthur Ashe live. None of this makes me an expert on tennis, but it does give me the right to call myself a real fan. Personally I lost interest in the sport when BJK and Arthur Ashe retired. My interested was renewed when I first saw Venus Williams play in 1997. My interest has steadily risen every year since then. So much so that I picked up the sport about a year ago. I am fortunate enough to have been able to join a tennis club and take lessons. My team in the 2.5 USTA ladies league won our City Championship. :) Now, I'll probably never know as much about tennis as LDV, Volcana and others because I really don't care to invest that much time. But, that doesn't mean that I don't learn when there's a civil discussion.

In conclusion, I just think with the wealth of knowledge on this tennis board, it could be a more positive learning environment and a little more inclusive.

Are you a tennis snob?

vertigo
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:20 PM
Tennis snob!? That's a great term! I'm not - and totally agree that this here site should be used to educate rather than belittle posters. I say 'boo, hiss' to all the tennis snobs out there. Anyway, I'd say if anything, every poster here is an elitist tennis fan re. 'snob' as we have made the effort to search, join up and post on this site. So ultimately, then, all of us are tennis snobs, and so we all suck, or something like that.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:23 PM
I don't find Volcana to be a snob, but LDV sure comes off that way. Great post.
I didn't mean to insinuate that either of them were snobs. Just that they had a lot of tennis knowledge and their names were the only two I could think of off the top of my head.

Louis Cyphre
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:29 PM
Denise your post is too long to be read but no,I`m not a tennis snob n :devil:

moon
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:30 PM
To me, the surest sign of a tennis snob or a "wannabe tennis snob" is when someone says "you're not a real tennis fan" because you might only follow one player. That really irks me when I see it. Not everybody has all the time in the world to watch or follow every tournament. And who are we to determine who is a "real" tennis fan, and who is not?

btw--great thread!

Calimero377
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:30 PM
I think the definition of a tennis snob is a person who knows or thinks they know everything about tennis. They know all of the players, their stats, and their weaknesses and strengths. They know all shots associated with tennis and the mechanics thereof. They know all of the rules of the WTA and ITF and can quote them. They are also people who come on a tennis board and insult other tennis fans for not being as knowledgeable, or should I say are less diplomatic than need be. I think instead of trying to belittle a fellow tennis fan for their lack of all consuming tennis knowledge, a better way would be to either ask questions to inquire as to why a poster made a certain statement or say that you don't agree and give the reason why. That way, people can learn and ask questions without feeling inhibited, frustrated or defensive. I don't think statements beginning with "WRONG" or the like fosters good discussion. The only thing it fosters is arguments, which soon turn personal.

I don't know all those things above and never professed to. I am a fan of tennis, like I am a fan of football, basketball and baseball. I have favorite teams with those other sports and don't really care to watch any other team play but them, unless they are in the play-offs. I don't know the stats of all the players, etc., but I know a good team, player or game when I see it. I have enough knowledge about the sport to discuss it and most fans of those sports are eager to have a discussion without having to feel superior.

Some tennis fans such as myself either don't know all of the above because they don't have the time or don't know because they are simply not interested. That doesn't mean we are not fans and don't have the right to enter a thread to discuss it without being insulted.

Some have accused a lot of Williams fans of being just fans of the Williams' sisters and not fans of tennis. That the only reason most of us started watching tennis was because of the Williams' Sisters, and they may be true for some, but not all of us. In my opinion, that is a pigeon-holing and an unworthy accusation of an entire fan base. There's nothing wrong with the fact that some people became fans because of the Williams' Sisters. That's why they are good for the WTA because they generated a whole lot of fans to the sport. That means more revenue for the WTA and better quality tournaments. Inasmuch as that may be true for some, it is not true for all fans of the Sisters.

Some fans such as myself, have been following tennis a long time. I've stated many times that some of my old favs in the '70s were BJK, Arthur Ashe, Yvonne Goolagong, Martina Nav, Stan Smith and Ilie Nastase. A lot of you don't remember those players because they were way before your time, but they were my favs and I watched them play as much as the networks allowed back then. I even remember when Jimmy Connors and Chris Evert were a couple, and when she used to where his name on a chain around her neck when she played. I remember when and why they started calling diamond bracelets, tennis bracelets. I saw the Wimbledon finals between Jimmy Connors and Arthur Ashe live. None of this makes me an expert on tennis, but it does give me the right to call myself a real fan. Personally I lost interest in the sport when BJK and Arthur Ashe retired. My interested was renewed when I first saw Venus Williams play in 1997. My interest has steadily risen every year since then. So much so that I picked up the sport about a year ago. I am fortunate enough to have been able to join a tennis club and take lessons. My team in the 2.5 USTA ladies league won our City Championship. :) Now, I'm not saying that they are tennis snobs, but for example, I'll probably never know as much about tennis as LDV, Volcana and others because I really don't care to invest that much time. But, that doesn't mean that I don't learn when there's a civil discussion.

In conclusion, I just think with the wealth of knowledge on this tennis board, it could be a more positive learning environment and a little more inclusive.

Are you a tennis snob?


No.
I don't know the stats of ALL players.
Not even of SOME players.
Actually only of ONE player.

Two advices:
1) Don't take posts on internet forums too serious.
2) Forget the sisters. They suck.



:wavey:

Wiggly
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:48 PM
LDV??? whose that?

Eggy probably knows the most

But his nice :)

Wannabeknowitall
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:57 PM
I'm hoping this thread will just be bumped down in the next couple of days but in the chance that it doesn't:
Congratulation on your 2.5 City Championship. Great.
The thread post is great as well.
Although I may be considered a tennis snob, one thing I will do is put my money where my mouth is. This is the reason I played fantasy tennis on the wtatour site. I didn't win but I did better than 1300 other entries which is good for me.

So all I'm asking you to do is put your money where your mouth is. Play the game (or if you played season 1, play season 2. Depend on your fanbase and your views on tennis and see how you do.
It's 10 bucks. It takes 10 minutes of your time each week.

Spunky83
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:58 PM
I think everyone who posts here and visits this site on a regular basis is somewhat addicted to tennis.

A "Tennis snob"? I know that my "real-life" friends think that of me but here no...I doubt it;)

But I certainly donīt like those tennis club "oh we are sooo rich and good looking"-snobs!

selking
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:59 PM
haha i'm only a tennis snob with highschool tennis in my state. But i have to be so i know how the kid i'm playing is gonna play.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2005, 10:08 PM
I'm hoping this thread will just be bumped down in the next couple of days but in the chance that it doesn't:
Congratulation on your 2.5 City Championship. Great.
The thread post is great as well.
Although I may be considered a tennis snob, one thing I will do is put my money where my mouth is. This is the reason I played fantasy tennis on the wtatour site. I didn't win but I did better than 1300 other entries which is good for me.

So all I'm asking you to do is put your money where your mouth is. Play the game (or if you played season 1, play season 2. Depend on your fanbase and your views on tennis and see how you do.
It's 10 bucks. It takes 10 minutes of your time each week.
Why do you hope that? :lol:

And, thanks. I'm really proud of that, because we've only been playing a year and we beat players that have been playing for a couple to three years. Plus, I think I'm pretty good at this little game. ;)

And thanks regarding the post. :)

Regarding fantasy tennis, you didn't provide a link. Where do you sign up?

Veenut
Jul 8th, 2005, 10:09 PM
I quite understand what you mean. As for me I don't make any appologies for what I know, who I root for and who heighten my interest in the game. I know as much as I'm interested in knowing and having great fun.

Sports for me is strictly entertainment and I'm not interested in techniques and mechanics because I've no interest in playing professionally. :) Same for me with other sports I root with passion for or against and at the end I rejoice or be disappointed then move on.

People enjoy watching for various reasons and everyone should be allowed to do this without comparison. At the end of the day, in sports people only remember the winners regardless of your style and knowledge of the game.

wurzelman
Jul 8th, 2005, 10:10 PM
The more I learn about the game, the more I realize I don't know. ;)
same

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2005, 10:16 PM
I quite understand what you mean. As for me I don't make any appologies for what I know, who I root for and who heighten my interest in the game. I know as much as I'm interested in knowing and having great fun.

Sports for me is strictly entertainment and I'm not interested in techniques and mechanics because I've no interest in playing professionally. :) Same for me with other sports I root with passion for or against and at the end I rejoice or be disappointed then move on.

People enjoy watching for various reasons and everyone should be allowed to do this without comparison. At the end of the day, in sports people only remember the winners regardless of your style and knowledge of the game.
These are great points that I'm sure a lot of people feel here on this message board, but are afraid to express it for fear of recrimination. Well, I'm sick of being asked, "do you know anything about tennis?" That has to be the dumbest question of all. Hell, if I didn't would I be wasting my time on a tennis message board every day? People who know nothing about the sport wouldn't waste their time. I'd say at the very least most faithful posters on this board are zealous tennis fans and know more about the sport than the average tennis fan who just likes to watch when it comes on TV. This, however, is what seperates us from the tennis snob, who professes to know everything and uses us to bolster himself.

Wannabeknowitall
Jul 8th, 2005, 10:21 PM
Why do you hope that? :lol:

And, thanks. I'm really proud of that, because we've only been playing a year and we beat players that have been playing for a couple to three years. Plus, I think I'm pretty good at this little game. ;)

And thanks regarding the post. :)

Regarding fantasy tennis, you didn't provide a link. Where do you sign up?

Sign Up Here: http://fantasywta2.enetpulse.com/

tennisbum79
Jul 8th, 2005, 10:34 PM
Denise your post is too long to be read but no,I`m not a tennis snob n :devil:

I think the post is the right length for what Denise wanted to convey.
I wish people would read the entire post form start to end. It really expresses the sentiment of a lot of poeple on this board.

I think some people just transfered whatever behaviour they have in their day to day life on how they deal with others on this this board. If they had a complex of superiority or comtempt toward other people unlike themselves(different culture/race), it will show in their posts. It usually manifests in outright dismisal of the other party's idea.
Although I have not been a target, one of the most insideous ways some posters treat a William fan is to dismiss any arguments they make as playing the race card, being politically correct, or too illogical or too unsophisticated to deserve a cogent response. What is not appreciated on this board, is that, although they may not know all the intricacies of tennis, some older William fans bring a unique prespective to the discusiion. For example they remember when Arthur Ashe had hard time on the tour because his race, Athea Gibson was not allowed to play in grand slams events until she was in her 30's, even Zina Garison had her share of harrasment, although less than Ashe and Gibson.
Always dismissing thier experiences and perspectives as playing race card is a callous and unfortunate.

And don't get me wrong, nobody is asking you to live in the past. Just be a little open of totally different ways of seing things. The past can sometimes ( not all the time) explains the present better.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2005, 10:38 PM
I think the post is the right length for what Denise wanted to convey.
I wish people would read the entire post form start to end. It really expresses the sentiment of a lot of poeple on this board.

I think some people just transfered whatever behaviour they have in their day to day life on how they deal with others on this this board. If they had a complex of superiority or comtempt toward other people unlike themselves(different culture/race), it will show in their posts. It usually manifests in outright dismisal of the other party's idea.
Although I have not been a target, one of the most insideous ways some posters treat a William fan is to dismiss any arguments they make as playing the race card, being politically correct, or too illogical or too unsophisticated to deserve a cogent response. What is not appreciated on this board, is that, although they may not know all the intricacies of tennis, some older William fans bring a unique prespective to the discusiion. For example they remember when Arthur Ashe had hard time on the tour because his race, Athea Gibson was not allowed to play in grand slams events until she was in her 30's, even Zina Garison had her share of harrasment, although less than Ashe and Gibson.
Always dismissing thier experiences and perspectives as playing race card is a callous and unfortunate.

And don't get me wrong, nobody is asking you to live in the past. Just be a little open of totally different ways of seing things. The past can sometimes ( not all the time) explains the present better.
Thanks sweetie. ;) You hit the nail on the head. :yeah:

Calimero377
Jul 8th, 2005, 10:45 PM
...., some older William fans bring a unique prespective to the discusiion. For example they remember when Arthur Ashe had hard time on the tour because his race, Athea Gibson was not allowed to play in grand slams events until she was in her 30's, even Zina Garison had her share of harrasment, although less than Ashe and Gibson.
...

Gibson played her first USO in 1950 and her first Wimbledon in 1951.
She was 23 years old then.

Playing the race card again, eh?

tennisbum79
Jul 8th, 2005, 11:16 PM
Gibson played her first USO in 1950 and her first Wimbledon in 1951.
She was 23 years old then.

Playing the race card again, eh?

You are correct about the age. And I give you that.
Still, that does not negate the fact she was kept out because of bigotry.

http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blbio_gibson_althea.htm

Playing the race card again, eh? This was uncessary. Maybe you just can't help it

darrinbaker00
Jul 8th, 2005, 11:16 PM
Gibson played her first USO in 1950 and her first Wimbledon in 1951.
She was 23 years old then.

Playing the race card again, eh?
If you want us to quit playing the race card, then quit dealing it to us.

Calimero377
Jul 8th, 2005, 11:43 PM
You are correct about the age. And I give you that.
Still, that does not negate the fact she was kept out because of bigotry.

http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blbio_gibson_althea.htm

This was uncessary. Maybe you just can't help it


Indeed I couldn't.
Because it was very necessary obviously ....

:wavey:

Calimero377
Jul 8th, 2005, 11:45 PM
If you want us to quit playing the race card, then quit dealing it to us.


I never did.
You just like to have it in your sleeve.

Kart
Jul 9th, 2005, 12:02 AM
I like to think I know everything about everything.

Coming on here regularly reminds me I know nothing about anything.

Denise4925
Jul 9th, 2005, 01:20 AM
*bump* :)

Andy.
Jul 9th, 2005, 03:20 AM
I have a vast knowledge about the players and sponsors but and the rules of the game but i am learning about so many new things all the time especially about technique.

SpikeyAidanm
Jul 9th, 2005, 05:23 AM
I'd like to think I'm one of the more knowledge WTA tennis guys on WTAWorld, being 18 and having followed the tour comprehesively since 1997.

Denise4925
Jul 9th, 2005, 05:24 AM
I'd like to think I'm one of the more knowledge WTA tennis guys on WTAWorld, being 18 and having followed the tour comprehesively since 1997.
But, are you a tennis snob? ;)

SpikeyAidanm
Jul 9th, 2005, 05:25 AM
But, are you a tennis snob? ;)
No :p

Denise4925
Jul 9th, 2005, 05:26 AM
No :p
Good enough. :yeah: :lol:

ceiling_fan
Jul 9th, 2005, 05:59 AM
no! but i know more about the game of tennis, than tennis players etc

Prizeidiot
Jul 9th, 2005, 11:36 AM
I know a fair bit about tennis, but it's more the technical and tactical aspects of it. And I know a fair bit about the history of tennis, seeing as I did a thesis on it recently. So I guess, I UNDERSTAND the game.

However, I don't know much about the players themselves, especially compared to a lot of people on this board. Especially non Australian women outside the top 50. Like I know their games, but nothing about their personal lives, their results, their development through juniors and stuff.

I don't think I'm a tennis snob though, despite understanding the game itself. I'm fairly passive, and I can agree with criticisms on my favourites, although reluctantly :p

However, I will admit, that I do get very annoyed with some non tennis people when they make really stupid comments. Stuff like "7-6 6-4 7-6? He lost to Federer in straight sets, why is he so crap?!" or "Elena who? A tall blonde Russian... you must be talking about Maria Sharapova" would piss me off.

Experimentee
Jul 9th, 2005, 02:09 PM
Sometimes reading the posts on GM makes me feel like a tennis genius :tape:

andrewbroad
Aug 4th, 2005, 03:10 AM
I do not know everything about tennis (or computer-science, for that matter). The more I learn, the more gaps in my knowledge I become aware of (e.g. the players on the ITF Women's Circuit).

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/)

Volcana
Aug 4th, 2005, 03:24 AM
Are you a tennis snob?Well, I imagine some people think I am. :)

But I'm very sure what I DON'T know about tennis dwarfs what I do know. In fact, I think what I'll NEVER know about tennis dwarfs what I'll ever know.

I do, however, know how to use Google, and I've been playing and watching for a long time. Even a rock gathers moss given enough time.

Mother_Marjorie
Aug 4th, 2005, 03:57 AM
Well, I imagine some people think I am. :)

But I'm very sure what I DON'T know about tennis dwarfs what I do know. In fact, I think what I'll NEVER know about tennis dwarfs what I'll ever know.

I do, however, know how to use Google, and I've been playing and watching for a long time. Even a rock gathers moss given enough time.

Well, I agree that Volcana is certainly knowledgable about the sport of tennis, with or without google.

I always thought the label "tennis snob" was applied to those tennis players who refused to play others with lesser skill.

andrewbroad
Sep 15th, 2005, 01:43 AM
I don't know half the players half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of them half as well as they deserve.

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/)

Denise4925
Nov 7th, 2005, 07:53 AM
bump