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RAA
Jul 8th, 2005, 02:31 PM
I feel like I understand what makes a good clay court and grass player.. but as the summer hard court season approaches, I read a lot on this board about how such and such a player will do great on the hard courts while others won't. But I guess I can't figure out exactly what factors makes a player better on hardcourts than other types of surfaces..

and, by extension, which players are the clear favorites going into the hardcourt season and for what reason..
thanks..

Ryan
Jul 8th, 2005, 02:33 PM
ALL sorts of players can be good hard court players. Whereas on grass and clay IMO it is harder for a certain style to break through, hardcourts are the great "mixer" of tennis and anyone can be good on them if they play their game well.

slydevil6142
Jul 8th, 2005, 02:36 PM
Hardcourt Tennis is all about controlled agrression. Its slow enough to allow for longer ralleys but fast enough to force agrressive play. Any player that has good defense along with offensive weapons has a good shot to do well in the hardcourt season.

lindsayno1
Jul 8th, 2005, 02:50 PM
clear faves:
Williams
Lindsay
Kim
Sharapova etc...

RAA
Jul 8th, 2005, 02:53 PM
clear faves:
Williams
Lindsay
Kim
Sharapova etc...

but why?

and why not throw justine in there too?

just curious..

alfajeffster
Jul 8th, 2005, 03:06 PM
...exactly what factors makes a player better on hardcourts than other types of surfaces...

Glucosamine Condroitin, a briefcase full of 800m Ibuprofen, and it helps if you feel the need to destroy your body. This tennis has in common with pro football.

Andy T
Jul 8th, 2005, 03:17 PM
What makes him good and what makes him hard are two different things ;-)

lindsayno1
Jul 8th, 2005, 03:35 PM
but why?

and why not throw justine in there too?

just curious..


because its a fast surface and favours the big hitting and serving babes

Volcana
Jul 8th, 2005, 04:13 PM
In a way, it more about what you DON'T need to a good hard court player.

You DON'T need the endurance to play the endless points clay can produce.

You DON'T need to be able to handle the ultra low bounces you can get on grass.

You DON'T need to be able the bad bounces you can get on clay or grass.

So a player with power, and some endurance, but who's NOT good at making last second adjustments, can be successful on hardcourts, even they aren't on clay or grass.

A spinning balls 'bites' into clay more. So players like Martinez, Henin-Hardenne and Schnyder get a payoff for their ability to use these shots on clay. The effect of the spin is magnified. Players who can't handle that, but who are otherwise good, do a lot better on hardcourts.

A ball simply hit with massive pace can skid on grass, barely rising after it bounces. So players like Sharapova and Davenport, who hit with big pace, and hit close to the lines, gain a big advantage on grass. The rest of the tour is killing themselves just to reach the ball. But on hardcourts, the ball doesn't slide through the court so much, and players who are a half-step slower can reach the ball.

It really comes down to fewer, and less variables for the players.

Why are some players at their best indoors? Fewer and less extreme variables. No sun in your eyes, no wind, consistent lighting, (usually) no insects, no airplane or traffic noise, the surface isn't ultra slow or ultra fast. Some players handle these variables well, some are affected by them.

A player who excels on hard courts, but NOT on clay or grass is, to an extent, defined by their deficiencies, not their assets. They may lack the endurance and consistency to excel onclay, or the footspeed and pace to excel on grass.

Grass maximizes Lindsay Davenport biggest assets, the pace and accuracy of her striking. It also exposes her lack of footspeed, but since she's usually in control of the point, that's not often a problem.

Clay maximizes Justine Henin-Hardenne's ability to slice and spin. Her opponents are dealing with the ball doing things they just aren't used to seeing. And since the ball coming off the surface slower, it allows Henin-Hardenne to compensate for her lack of height with footspeed.

There aren't many player in the top twenty who are only good on hardcourts. If you look at their records, you generally find they also go deep into tournaments on grass or clay.Glucosamine Condroitin, a briefcase full of 800m Ibuprofen, and it helps if you feel the need to destroy your body. This tennis has in common with pro football.This is also correct.

RAA
Jul 8th, 2005, 04:16 PM
In a way, it more about what you DON'T need to a good hard court player.

You DON'T need the endurance to play the endless points clay can produce.

You DON'T need to be able to handle the ultra low bounces you can get on grass.

You DON'T need to be able the bad bounces you can get on clay or grass.

So a player with power, and some endurance, but who's NOT good at making last second adjustments, can be successful on hardcourts, even they aren't on clay or grass.

A spinning balls 'bites' into clay more. So players like Martinez, Henin-Hardenne and Schnyder get a payoff for their ability to use these shots on clay. The effect of the spin is magnified. Players who can't handle that, but who are otherwise good, do a lot better on hardcourts.

A ball simply hit with massive pace can skid on grass, barely rising after it bounces. So players like Sharapova and Davenport, who hit with big pace, and hit close to the lines, gain a big advantage on grass. The rest of the tour is killing themselves just to reach the ball. But on hardcourts, the ball doesn't slide through the court so much, and players who are a half-step slower can reach the ball.

It really comes down to fewer, and less variables for the players.

Why are some players at their best indoors? Fewer and less extreme variables. No sun in your eyes, no wind, consistent lighting, (usually) no insects, no airplane or traffic noise, the surface isn't ultra slow or ultra fast. Some players handle these variables well, some are affected by them.

A player who excels on hard courts, but NOT on clay or grass is, to an extent, defined by their deficiencies, not their assets. They may lack the endurance and consistency to excel onclay, or the footspeed and pace to excel on grass.

Grass maximizes Lindsay Davenport biggest assets, the pace and accuracy of her striking. It also exposes her lack of footspeed, but since she's usually in control of the point, that's not often a problem.

Clay maximizes Justine Henin-Hardenne's ability to slice and spin. Her opponents are dealing with the ball doing things they just aren't used to seeing. And since the ball coming off the surface slower, it allows Henin-Hardenne to compensate for her lack of height with footspeed.

There aren't many player in the top twenty who are only good on hardcourts. If you look at their records, you generally find they also go deep into tournaments on grass or clay.This is also correct.

thanks for this:cool: . it was helpful. I think I knew it intuitively but I just couldn't articulate it..

Sam L
Jul 8th, 2005, 04:45 PM
Hardcourt Tennis is all about controlled agrression. Its slow enough to allow for longer ralleys but fast enough to force agrressive play. Any player that has good defense along with offensive weapons has a good shot to do well in the hardcourt season.
Yes, Chris Evert and Monica Seles comes to mind. Even though they were equally good on clay.

The sisters also have the perfect games for it but Serena, especially, makes it hard for her body to handle.

Veenut
Jul 8th, 2005, 05:01 PM
In a way, it more about what you DON'T need to a good hard court player.

You DON'T need the endurance to play the endless points clay can produce.

You DON'T need to be able to handle the ultra low bounces you can get on grass.

You DON'T need to be able the bad bounces you can get on clay or grass.

So a player with power, and some endurance, but who's NOT good at making last second adjustments, can be successful on hardcourts, even they aren't on clay or grass.

A spinning balls 'bites' into clay more. So players like Martinez, Henin-Hardenne and Schnyder get a payoff for their ability to use these shots on clay. The effect of the spin is magnified. Players who can't handle that, but who are otherwise good, do a lot better on hardcourts.

A ball simply hit with massive pace can skid on grass, barely rising after it bounces. So players like Sharapova and Davenport, who hit with big pace, and hit close to the lines, gain a big advantage on grass. The rest of the tour is killing themselves just to reach the ball. But on hardcourts, the ball doesn't slide through the court so much, and players who are a half-step slower can reach the ball.

It really comes down to fewer, and less variables for the players.

Why are some players at their best indoors? Fewer and less extreme variables. No sun in your eyes, no wind, consistent lighting, (usually) no insects, no airplane or traffic noise, the surface isn't ultra slow or ultra fast. Some players handle these variables well, some are affected by them.

A player who excels on hard courts, but NOT on clay or grass is, to an extent, defined by their deficiencies, not their assets. They may lack the endurance and consistency to excel onclay, or the footspeed and pace to excel on grass.

Grass maximizes Lindsay Davenport biggest assets, the pace and accuracy of her striking. It also exposes her lack of footspeed, but since she's usually in control of the point, that's not often a problem.

Clay maximizes Justine Henin-Hardenne's ability to slice and spin. Her opponents are dealing with the ball doing things they just aren't used to seeing. And since the ball coming off the surface slower, it allows Henin-Hardenne to compensate for her lack of height with footspeed.

There aren't many player in the top twenty who are only good on hardcourts. If you look at their records, you generally find they also go deep into tournaments on grass or clay.This is also correct.

Great insight!!! Thanks for your contribution and you are a great asset to this board!!! :worship:

Calimero377
Jul 8th, 2005, 09:41 PM
I feel like I understand what makes a good clay court and grass player.. but as the summer hard court season approaches, I read a lot on this board about how such and such a player will do great on the hard courts while others won't. But I guess I can't figure out exactly what factors makes a player better on hardcourts than other types of surfaces..

and, by extension, which players are the clear favorites going into the hardcourt season and for what reason..
thanks..


I'd say a 89 % or better winning percentage makes a good hard courter.

Actually I know only one ...



:worship:

cartmancop
Jul 8th, 2005, 11:27 PM
Faves for hardcourt season:
Davenport & Sharapova: B/c they can hit hard flat strokes & dictate on most hardcourts

Venus & Justine: I feel like they can hit well placed hard groundstrokes but are also very good at defense which is a big help on the hardcourts.

Kim & Amelie: Kim & Amelie are just solid all-around player whose games work well on all surfaces if they play well....

Brαm
Jul 8th, 2005, 11:47 PM
because its a fast surface and favours the big hitting and serving babes
again: why not Justine? :confused:

Justine hits the ball hard, she has one of the fastest serves on tour + she's won 2 slams on HC, the Athens Olympics and several other titles!!

sunset
Jul 8th, 2005, 11:54 PM
I think a good hardcourt player is someone who consistantly wins with without too many injuries.

Shonami Slam
Jul 9th, 2005, 12:50 AM
hardcourt is the place where winners count most, and for winners you should have either power, so placement.
obviously lindsay, sharapova, mauresmo and so on have both, but at the lower level, some players can grab titles with just one.
attacking second serve is easier - and it plays a great deal on hard courts, because if you can't "punish" second serves, you lose alot of the spice to you return game.
also, hard courts are the worst surface to lob on, dropshots are bad too - most players these days can reach both unless your'e a kim-lobber or a patty-dropper.
moonballers tend to do well on the slower hardcourts since the can add the flatter strokes and try to go for angles, smashnova won quite a few titles that way.
look for change of paces here, as it can really hurt some players, and passing forehand-to-forehand is seen more than down the line shots (except jankovic, really).
and lastly, in the later stages of the tournament, tight three setters take a clay-twist, but it's a mental-clay court.
jankovic-lindsay this year at dubai was a great example, it was a real slugfest with both players dragging on each super-rally rather than stroking winners all the time.

ceiling_fan
Jul 9th, 2005, 07:27 AM
if sharapova is a fave, then how come she didn't do well last year :confused: just curious

ZAK
Jul 9th, 2005, 07:31 AM
if sharapova is a fave, then how come she didn't do well last year :confused: just curious

Let down and pressure after her win at Wimbledon perhaps.

deja_entendu
Jul 9th, 2005, 07:38 AM
I don't think anyone has hit it yet... I think good hard court players all take the ball early. The best hard court players of recent years have been Hingis, Serena, Lindsay, Venus. On clay you can take the ball very late and rally because the slow surface rewards speedy consistent players... and grass rewards good power and placement of the ball. But topsin on hard courts can really push players way back, and the ones that can hit the ball the earliest tend to do the best.