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Calimero377
Jul 4th, 2005, 03:08 PM
We are living in great times!
Great times for women's tennis that is.
6 different slam winners in the last 6 slams (Myskina FO 04, Sharapova Wim 04, Kuzzy USO 04, Serena AO 05, Enna FO 05, Venus Wim 05). Everybody beats everybody, favourites stumble, outsiders prevail.

Long gone are the boring times when Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova and Steffi Graf refused to let the rest of the pack win more than necessary. And in earlier times we had the likes of Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills-Moody, Maureen Connolly.

Only once since WW1 we saw a 6-year time frame in which no-one of those greedy players made tennis boring.

1955-61!
OK, in distant Australia a young native called Margaret Smith won her first titles (AO 60/61) but in Europe and the U.S. players like Louise Brough, Althea Gibson, Maria Esther Bueno, Shirley Fry, Beverly Fleitz, Susie Komorczy, Angela Mortimer, Darlene Hard played for the silverware. Everybody beat everybody, favourites stumbled, outsiders prevailed.

Sadly we can predict that some greedy players will come along again in the next 40 years who win 12plus slams like Lenglen, Wills, Evert, Court, Navi and Graf. Maybe their name will be Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

And in 2050 people will know the names of Lenglen, Wills, Court, Evert, Navratilova, Graf, Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

Fry, Gibson, Mortimer, Davenport, Williams and Sharapova will be forgotten. All the depth of 55-61 and 00-05 notwithstanding ....

Pengwin
Jul 4th, 2005, 04:04 PM
Actually all the slam winners of this year had already won 3+ slams before so they are hardly flukes.

Andy T
Jul 4th, 2005, 04:29 PM
We are living in great times!
Great times for women's tennis that is.
6 different slam winners in the last 6 slams (Myskina FO 04, Sharapova Wim 04, Kuzzy USO 04, Serena AO 05, Enna FO 05, Venus Wim 05). Everybody beats everybody, favourites stumble, outsiders prevail.

Long gone are the boring times when Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova and Steffi Graf refused to let the rest of the pack win more than necessary. And in earlier times we had the likes of Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills-Moody, Maureen Connolly.

Only once since WW1 we saw a 6-year time frame in which no-one of those greedy players made tennis boring.

1955-61!
OK, in distant Australia a young native called Margaret Smith won her first titles (AO 60/61) but in Europe and the U.S. players like Louise Brough, Althea Gibson, Maria Esther Bueno, Shirley Fry, Beverly Fleitz, Susie Komorczy, Angela Mortimer, Darlene Hard played for the silverware. Everybody beat everybody, favourites stumbled, outsiders prevailed.

Sadly we can predict that some greedy players will come along again in the next 40 years who win 12plus slams like Lenglen, Wills, Evert, Court, Navi and Graf. Maybe their name will be Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

And in 2050 people will know the names of Lenglen, Wills, Court, Evert, Navratilova, Graf, Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

Fry, Gibson, Mortimer, Davenport, Williams and Sharapova will be forgotten. All the depth of 55-61 and 00-05 notwithstanding ....

One can only speculate what would have happened had Connolly not been forced to abandon her career in 1954. maybe she'd have dominated right through the 1950s. As it was, her departure left the way clear for Doris Hart (retired 1955) Shirley Fry (turned pro in early 1957), and Althea Gibson (turned pro in 1958) to have their moment in the sun. Maybe they would have had it anyway. Given the amateur rules in force at the time, immediately these women turned pro, they were no longer able to play the slams. That left a gap at the top, which was filled first by Bueno & Hard 59-61 and then Margaret Smith.

ps Beverly Baker- Fleitz also turned pro in 1959.

Calimero377
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:53 PM
Actually all the slam winners of this year had already won 3+ slams before so they are hardly flukes.


In the great wave of time they are ....

In 50 years from now people won't know them (OK, perhaps Enna - if she made about 6 or 8 slams more which is possible). But of course they will know Evert, Navi and Graf. :worship:

mboyle
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:58 PM
In the great wave of time they are ....

In 50 years from now people won't know them (OK, perhaps Enna - if she made about 6 or 8 slams more which is possible). But of course they will know Evert, Navi and Graf. :worship:

Nah! You did NOT just forget Serena Williams! Serena and Venus will definately be remembered. Serena's going to win another two slams minimum. Sharapova's going to stick around as well. We'll see...

mboyle
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:58 PM
Oh and Althea Gibson is remembered. I don't know why you would say she is not.

chris whiteside
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:06 PM
In the great wave of time they are ....

In 50 years from now people won't know them (OK, perhaps Enna - if she made about 6 or 8 slams more which is possible). But of course they will know Evert, Navi and Graf. :worship:

And I would think just about everyone knows (and will know) of Billie Jean King and Monica Seles.

chris whiteside
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:08 PM
One can only speculate what would have happened had Connolly not been forced to abandon her career in 1954. maybe she'd have dominated right through the 1950s. As it was, her departure left the way clear for Doris Hart (retired 1955) Shirley Fry (turned pro in early 1957), and Althea Gibson (turned pro in 1958) to have their moment in the sun. Maybe they would have had it anyway. Given the amateur rules in force at the time, immediately these women turned pro, they were no longer able to play the slams. That left a gap at the top, which was filled first by Bueno & Hard 59-61 and then Margaret Smith.

ps Beverly Baker- Fleitz also turned pro in 1959.


Maureen Connolly was intending to turn professional after competing at Forest Hills in 1954.

This came out at the court case into compensation for her injury.

Calimero377
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:18 PM
And I would think just about everyone knows (and will know) of Billie Jean King and Monica Seles.



In 50 years???
I doubt that.
How BJK "invented" professional tennis or how Seles was stabbed - that will be footnotes of history only in 2050.

Graf on the other hand has two big advantages: her beautiful legs and her graceful dancer's style of play. People will be able to marvel at her moving around the court effortlessly when they rewatch her great matches. As a contemporary tennis expert said a few years ago: "There's not one girl I see playing - I don't care if her name is Martina Hingis, Venus Williams or Serena Williams - who'll be what Graf was. Steffi was a thoroughbred running and the rest are mules."

ezekiel
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:43 PM
You definitelly need to go out more and see different people . You are boring the hell out of me and this board with your obsession.
Repeating yourself over and over again is sign of a dysfunction to say the least.

And Graf place in history will be marked by asterisks ***

mboyle
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:52 PM
In 50 years???
I doubt that.
How BJK "invented" professional tennis or how Seles was stabbed - that will be footnotes of history only in 2050.

Graf on the other hand has two big advantages: her beautiful legs and her graceful dancer's style of play. People will be able to marvel at her moving around the court effortlessly when they rewatch her great matches. As a contemporary tennis expert said a few years ago: "There's not one girl I see playing - I don't care if her name is Martina Hingis, Venus Williams or Serena Williams - who'll be what Graf was. Steffi was a thoroughbred running and the rest are mules."

You are absolutely an idiot if you think that Billie Jean King will not be remembered. Just absolutely an idiot. Oh wait, I knew that already:rolleyes: .

And I know you hate Monica, but she won nine grand slams and changed the way the game was played. She's going to be remembered.

Now, none of the general public will remember any of these athletes, except Martina Navratilova. Graf was obviously a more accomplished singles player, but she did not want to be a celebrity, whereas Martina did. Navratilova and Agassi/Sampras will be remembered (maybe Federer.)

Calimero377
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:53 PM
You definitelly need to go out more and see different people . You are boring the hell out of me and this board with your obsession.
Repeating yourself over and over again is sign of a dysfunction to say the least.

And Graf place in history will be marked by asterisks ***


Yes.
*Career cut short due to tons of injuries.
** Had to battle extreme off-court distractions.
*** Broke 9-time Wimbledon champ Navratilova in 7 consecutive service games in 1988 Wimbledon final.

Calimero377
Jul 4th, 2005, 09:01 PM
You are absolutely an idiot if you think that Billie Jean King will not be remembered. Just absolutely an idiot. Oh wait, I knew that already:rolleyes: .

And I know you hate Monica, but she won nine grand slams and changed the way the game was played. She's going to be remembered.

Now, none of the general public will remember any of these athletes, except Martina Navratilova. Graf was obviously a more accomplished singles player, but she did not want to be a celebrity, whereas Martina did. Navratilova and Agassi/Sampras will be remembered (maybe Federer.)



BJK will be remembered by the tennis historians.
Graf by the general public because of her unique and simply beautiful style to play tennis. She played like a primaballerina, no male player could do that. BJK's and Navi's style was not unique - thousands of men played the same in the last decades. And better than them.

BJK and Navi are well known today because they talk.
That won't help them in 50 years.
Graf is well known because of her graceful game.
That will help her in 50 years ...


:worship:

VS Fan
Jul 4th, 2005, 09:07 PM
Althea Gibson was ALREADY pretty much forgotton untill Venus and Serena came on the scene! (Even though she won FIVE slams)


Hmmm.... I wonder why that was???

Even if Venus and Serena never win another Major, they will be remembered as two SISTERS who played for SIX major chanpionships... And won 12 singles SLAM titles.
six DOUBLES slam titles, Olympics, etc.

ezekiel
Jul 4th, 2005, 09:34 PM
Yes.
*Career cut short due to tons of injuries.
** Had to battle extreme off-court distractions.
*** Broke 9-time Wimbledon champ Navratilova in 7 consecutive service games in 1988 Wimbledon final.


* had to battle 30 year olds on her way to the top
** Only way to get back on top was to physically remove her main competitor
***Brought the women's tennis to a dead halt with the boring game, no personality and never giving credit to opponents.
**** The game got more popular once she retired
***** Tried to fool the tax man
******has many certifiably crazy and violent followers just like Bin Laden :tape:

hingis-seles
Jul 4th, 2005, 10:05 PM
Graf on the other hand has two big advantages: her beautiful legs and her graceful dancer's style of play.

Go to a strip club and you'll find most of the girls there have the advantages you mentioned.

blumaroo
Jul 4th, 2005, 10:14 PM
I was just warming up to Calimero and then this troll thread came up. Sigh. Some things just never change.

fammmmedspin
Jul 4th, 2005, 11:24 PM
We are living in great times!
Great times for women's tennis that is.
6 different slam winners in the last 6 slams (Myskina FO 04, Sharapova Wim 04, Kuzzy USO 04, Serena AO 05, Enna FO 05, Venus Wim 05). Everybody beats everybody, favourites stumble, outsiders prevail.

Long gone are the boring times when Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova and Steffi Graf refused to let the rest of the pack win more than necessary. And in earlier times we had the likes of Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills-Moody, Maureen Connolly.

Only once since WW1 we saw a 6-year time frame in which no-one of those greedy players made tennis boring.

1955-61!
OK, in distant Australia a young native called Margaret Smith won her first titles (AO 60/61) but in Europe and the U.S. players like Louise Brough, Althea Gibson, Maria Esther Bueno, Shirley Fry, Beverly Fleitz, Susie Komorczy, Angela Mortimer, Darlene Hard played for the silverware. Everybody beat everybody, favourites stumbled, outsiders prevailed.

Sadly we can predict that some greedy players will come along again in the next 40 years who win 12plus slams like Lenglen, Wills, Evert, Court, Navi and Graf. Maybe their name will be Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

And in 2050 people will know the names of Lenglen, Wills, Court, Evert, Navratilova, Graf, Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

Fry, Gibson, Mortimer, Davenport, Williams and Sharapova will be forgotten. All the depth of 55-61 and 00-05 notwithstanding ....

You would do better to make the opposite point. The two 2005 finalists were both in the SF in 1999. Venus played better than she did on Saturday and lost. Lindsay played better in 1999 and won her SF and the final. That tells you something but its nothing to do with increasing depth.

Martian KC
Jul 4th, 2005, 11:46 PM
Go to a strip club and you'll find most of the girls there have the advantages you mentioned.

And they know how to work those wrists too!:haha:

vettipooh
Jul 5th, 2005, 01:31 AM
Cali never stops. So here goes. In 2050 Graf will only be remembered in scattered conversations. People will be asking.."what's the name of that tennis player whose father went to jail for tax evasion??? ......"Isn't that the same one whose father was using her money to f*** w*****?????.......... "oh yeah, I remember her name now....Steffi somebody"..... "Didn't she divorce that Agassi guy and marry some obsessed fan named calimero something?" " I heard my next door neighbor telling the mailman that the calimero chap is now doing time for years of harrassing the posters on the now defunct WTAworld message board....they finally got his ass!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

ceiling_fan
Jul 5th, 2005, 01:33 AM
* had to battle 30 year olds on her way to the top
** Only way to get back on top was to physically remove her main competitor
***Brought the women's tennis to a dead halt with the boring game, no personality and never giving credit to opponents.
**** The game got more popular once she retired
***** Tried to fool the tax man
******has many certifiably crazy and violent followers just like Bin Laden :tape:

lol!

andrewbroad
Jul 30th, 2005, 01:51 AM
Fry, Gibson, Mortimer, Davenport, Williams and Sharapova will be forgotten. All the depth of 55-61 and 00-05 notwithstanding ....

There's no way Maria Sharapova will be forgotten in 2050, because she's going to end up with at least 23 Grand Slam singles titles, as well as being remembered for her looks which are making Anna Kournikova redundant. ;)

We have witnessed Maria's first Grand Slam title already, but her years of dominance don't start until 2006...

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/)

Chrissie-fan
Jul 30th, 2005, 02:00 AM
In 2050 Sharapova and co will be forgotten by "the general public",but not by tennis fans and those are the only ones that matter. :smoke:

Stamp Paid
Jul 30th, 2005, 02:07 AM
There's no way Maria Sharapova will be forgotten in 2050, because she's going to end up with at least 23 Grand Slam singles titles, as well as being remembered for her looks which are making Anna Kournikova redundant. ;)

We have witnessed Maria's first Grand Slam title already, but her years of dominance don't start until 2006...

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/)

hehe

Andy.
Jul 30th, 2005, 11:37 AM
There are so many players who can in titles and be grandslam contenders now the depth is huge Lindsay, Masha, Venus, Serena, Justine, Kim, Anastasia, Sveta, Elena D, Mary, Patty and Nadia are all contenders and there is no dominant player

Calimero377
Jul 30th, 2005, 12:32 PM
There are so many players who can in titles and be grandslam contenders now the depth is huge Lindsay, Masha, Venus, Serena, Justine, Kim, Anastasia, Sveta, Elena D, Mary, Patty and Nadia are all contenders and there is no dominant player


Without Martina and Chris we would have had many contenders in the mid-80ies:
Hana, Pam, Wendy, Andrea, Helena, (young) Steffi, Claudia, Sylvia, Manuela, Jo, Zina, Kathy I, Kathy II, Bettina.
It would have been the best of times. Maximum depth. Alas, it was not meant to be.

Because we had Martina and Chris ..... :sad:

Chrissie-fan
Jul 30th, 2005, 12:46 PM
True. The eternal debate on whether there are now so many contenders because there are no all time greats playing vs "Were Chris and Martina so dominant because the competition was so poor." I certainly don't agree with the second part of that since Chris was already winning tournaments,including majors when Court,King,Goolagong,Wade,Austin and others were at their peak. Evert,Navratilova,Graf,Seles....they won that much because they were THAT good! :smoke:


Without Martina and Chris we would have had many contenders in the mid-80ies:
Hana, Pam, Wendy, Andrea, Helena, (young) Steffi, Claudia, Sylvia, Manuela, Jo, Zina, Kathy I, Kathy II, Bettina.
It would have been the best of times. Maximum depth. Alas, it was not meant to be.

Because we had Martina and Chris ..... :sad:

Sam L
Jul 30th, 2005, 02:27 PM
My prediction is that by 2050, the Williams sisters will be the most remembered and famous female tennis players.

They will be the grandma sisters that spawned an entire generation of wannabes. :drool:

I will turn 71 in 2050. :scared:

tennnisfannn
Jul 30th, 2005, 02:42 PM
I will turn 71 in 2050. :scared: I will be all of 85, with my memory still intact!

andrewbroad
Jul 31st, 2005, 10:23 PM
In 2050 Sharapova and co will be forgotten by "the general public",but not by tennis fans and those are the only ones that matter. :smoke:

No - Maria will be remembered in 2050 because she transcends tennis.

But what will I know? I don't plan to live that long.

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/)

Stingray
Jul 31st, 2005, 10:41 PM
So no one will remember the African-American slam winning sisters who were 1+2 in the world and icons of their day, transcending the sport? :lol: :lol: Greatness doesn't end in number of Grand Slams won.

Chrissie-fan
Jul 31st, 2005, 10:45 PM
Nah,by 2050 someone will have pushed the button and we will all be dead. If not we will have died because we have poisened the planet to such a degree that it won't be fit to live on anymore. Either way,we are doomed because of our own stupidity :devil: . But luckily in the meantime we have our loveable goddesses with the tennis racquets to keep us entertained,so what do I care? Life is beautiful. :bolt: :smoke:

Maria will be remembered in 2050 because she transcends tennis.

But what will I know? I don't plan to live that long.

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/)

Stingray
Jul 31st, 2005, 10:50 PM
Graf by the general public because of her unique and simply beautiful style to play tennis. She played like a primaballerina, no male player could do that.

:worship:
I have quite a few friends that are "general public" do not follow tennis really, only watch now and again. I'm 18 btw. They don't really know who Steffi Graf is (which is a shame as she was an amazing sportswoman). They do, however know very well who Venus and Serena are. I'm not saying one is better than the other. Who you remember all depends on your age and who was playing and had an effect on you whilst you were watching. I never saw Steffi play, although i know her history, to me she is a name with statistics attached(so many titles etc).

mishar
Jul 31st, 2005, 11:07 PM
Only a few die-hard tennis fans know who Helen Wills or Suzanne Lenglen are anyway. Tennis fans will know, the general public will have forgotten Graf along with everyone else. The long night of obscurity is waiting for all of us the same.. same sooner than others, but inexorable for all. :-)

No Name Face
Aug 1st, 2005, 12:05 AM
honestly in 2050, the only female tennis players that will be remembered are probably the Williams sisters and Kournikova.