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View Full Version : Why is gay marriage such a big deal to those who oppose it?


Volcana
Jun 30th, 2005, 01:35 PM
I can understand being vehemently in favor of the right to marry.

I don't really understand the vehemence of the opposition. If you're opposed to homosexuality in the first place, then you are. I don't agree with you, but at least your position is consistent, if not grounded in reason. What I don't understand is people who can support gay 'civil union' legislation, but not gay 'marriage'. Or instances where gay couples can adopt, but not marry.

Sam L
Jun 30th, 2005, 01:39 PM
In some ways I can see their point. "Marriage" is in a way tied to religion. Especially in the western christian world. So it's almost like making a mockery of the institution of marriage which is based on their religious beliefs, etc...

SelesFan70
Jun 30th, 2005, 02:05 PM
In some ways I can see their point. "Marriage" is in a way tied to religion. Especially in the western christian world. So it's almost like making a mockery of the institution of marriage which is based on their religious beliefs, etc...

Point well made! It's the semantics of the word "marriage". :rolleyes:

PaulieM
Jun 30th, 2005, 03:22 PM
i think for many people marriage is a religious sacrament, and if the religious institutions for which it is a sacred sacrament are opposed to homosexuality then people have issues with same sex unions being called marriages. i know people who would be ok with all unions not performed by the church being considered civil unions. for many it's not necessarily about not wanting same sex couples to have the same rights as heterosexual couples.

skirty
Jun 30th, 2005, 03:32 PM
to the right wing anti-everythings marriage is a sacrement

to us homosexuals, marriage is seeking rights such as security for adoption, joint benefits such as health insurance.. bla bla bla, all those little luxuries which most of us will never have because mr bush, who isnt religious and doesnt worship, thinks its morally wrong. if me and my partner adopt a child, and the "official" adoptee is killed, the other would not have rights to the child. even though we may have spent 10 years raising it together.

Foot_Fault
Jun 30th, 2005, 03:39 PM
Who Cares? Like Chris Rock said, If someone wanted to Marry a Monkey...How does that Affect Me?

Fuck'em... Men, Marry Men. Women, Marry Women. It doesn't affect me at all. I am not FEEDING, FINANCING, or FUCKING any of them....not my concern and shouldnt be anyone else.

Self Righteous MotherFuckers. Let me take it to the Ghetto real quick. Jive Ass Niggas!(Ignorant People)

Wigglytuff
Jun 30th, 2005, 03:41 PM
I can understand being vehemently in favor of the right to marry.

I don't really understand the vehemence of the opposition. If you're opposed to homosexuality in the first place, then you are. I don't agree with you, but at least your position is consistent, if not grounded in reason. What I don't understand is people who can support gay 'civil union' legislation, but not gay 'marriage'. Or instances where gay couples can adopt, but not marry.

there is no reason. some people just don't want other people to be happy.

one thing that people say is a reason but is not, because its not true:

marriage is based on, tied to, or the result of religion
people who say this are just ignorant.

there was marriage in before Constantine and the conversion of some pagan Europeans to Christianity and there was marriage afterward. there was marriage here in on this land before Columbus ruined it for the people who had lived here.

marriage is an institution that exists both within and without western religious nations, and locals and therefore can not be attributed or credited to western religion.


now some people would say that natives Americans didn't marry because it was not a Christian marriage, or that it doesn't count because native Americans don't count. (i mean its not like they are people or anything)

others say "marriage as we know it today" and that's just silly, of course marriage is it is today didn't exist in the Olmec society because it was a different place, time, culture and worldview. legal systems as we know them today did not exist during the time of the Olmec that doesn't mean they ate their young and had no laws or rules of any kind. it means they had a law/rule system that was different than ours but still very much valid.

kabuki
Jun 30th, 2005, 03:43 PM
Where's Nash? :unsure:

PaulieM
Jun 30th, 2005, 03:52 PM
i think for many people marriage is a religious sacrament, and if the religious institutions for which it is a sacred sacrament are opposed to homosexuality then people have issues with same sex unions being called marriages. i know people who would be ok with all unions not performed by the church being considered civil unions. for many it's not necessarily about not wanting same sex couples to have the same rights as heterosexual couples.

Just a clarification, I was only trying to explain some reasons that I have heard people use in the past. Is it right or not? I don't know. either way this is probably one of the many issues that people will never agree upon.

canadian_bass_2
Jun 30th, 2005, 03:54 PM
For me, that's no longer an issue. 2 days ago, Canada passed a bill that made homosexual marriage legal. This bill means that the GLBT community can get married at public places, like city hall or a court. The churches still have the right to refuse to marry a homosexual couple if they feel that is necessary.

GO CANADA!!!!!!!!

Sam L
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:32 PM
there is no reason. some people just don't want other people to be happy.

one thing that people say is a reason but is not, because its not true:

marriage is based on, tied to, or the result of religion
people who say this are just ignorant.

there was marriage in before Constantine and the conversion of some pagan Europeans to Christianity and there was marriage afterward. there was marriage here in on this land before Columbus ruined it for the people who had lived here.

marriage is an institution that exists both within and without western religious nations, and locals and therefore can not be attributed or credited to western religion.


now some people would say that natives Americans didn't marry because it was not a Christian marriage, or that it doesn't count because native Americans don't count. (i mean its not like they are people or anything)

others say "marriage as we know it today" and that's just silly, of course marriage is it is today didn't exist in the Olmec society because it was a different place, time, culture and worldview. legal systems as we know them today did not exist during the time of the Olmec that doesn't mean they ate their young and had no laws or rules of any kind. it means they had a law/rule system that was different than ours but still very much valid.
Jiggly, we live in a most "Christian" society.

Especially in America, "One nation under God" and "In God, we trust".

Yes you're right, but read my first sentence. To them, marriage is church/religion based.

Anyway, to avoid such prejudices I suggest we start our own religions. Look at my other thread. ;)

Helen Lawson
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:38 PM
I understand what all of you are saying, but really, if you're comfortable with your belief system, it shouldn't matter. If you really think marriage is only between a man and a woman before the eyes of God, do you really care if a bunch of gay people are running around telling people they're married or even have the legal right to call themselves that? Isn't the joke sort of on them, so why get all uptight about it.
I don't care if someone goes out and forges a fake Oscar and walks around muttering an acceptance speech. I know the truth, and what someone else does has no effect on me.

Sam L
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:40 PM
I understand what all of you are saying, but really, if you're comfortable with your belief system, it shouldn't matter. If you really think marriage is only between a man and a woman before the eyes of God, do you really care if a bunch of gay people are running around telling people they're married or even have the legal right to call themselves that? Isn't the joke sort of on them, so why get all uptight about it.
I don't care if someone goes out and forges a fake Oscar and walks around muttering an acceptance speech. I know the truth, and what someone else does has no effect on me.
Your last sentence. That's like a sin in our religion right? :mad:

Helen Lawson
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:44 PM
Your last sentence. That's like a sin in our religion right? :mad:

It is? :o

It's like the Da Vinci Code. All these people going nuts over it. Big deal. I took it as an interesting piece of fiction and an interesting what if. Like I'm going to give up my religion over a Dan Brown book? And if someone did, how does that affect my religion? People are free to believe what they want to, exercise free will, isn't that in the Bible, or am I mixing that up with a movie script? :o

Sam L
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:45 PM
It is? :o

It's like the Da Vinci Code. All these people going nuts over it. Big deal. I took it as an interesting piece of fiction and an interesting what if. Like I'm going to give up my religion over a Dan Brown book? And if someone did, how does that affect my religion? People are free to believe what they want to, exercise free will, isn't that in the Bible, or am I mixing that up with a movie script? :o
The part about making a fake Oscar. LoL.

Ben-Hur?

Helen Lawson
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:49 PM
The part about making a fake Oscar. LoL.

Ben-Hur?

I thought you meant that, but wasn't sure.

I'm not saying I wouldn't report the fucker to AMPAS and demand legal retribution immediately, but once your name's been called and you ascend the stage, you know you're in elite company and you don't give posers the time of day. I mean, WE know who's in the club and who is NOT I don't need to see thes statuette to know!

Helen Lawson
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:51 PM
The part about making a fake Oscar. LoL.

Ben-Hur?\


Hon, given I gave that Oscar to Charlton Heston, it's really unspoken AMPAS rules that I respond "no comment" at attempts to question those, how do I call it, "wins."

Sam L
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:53 PM
I thought you meant that, but wasn't sure.

I'm not saying I wouldn't report the fucker to AMPAS and demand legal retribution immediately, but once your name's been called and you ascend the stage, you know you're in elite company and you don't give posers the time of day. I mean, WE know who's in the club and who is NOT I don't need to see thes statuette to know!
Exactly, that's when you know you'll enter heaven.

BUBI
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:54 PM
"I think that gay marriage should be between a man and a woman."

- Arnold Schwarzenegger

:p

griffin
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:59 PM
Currently, there are religious denominations that DO marry same-sex couples but do not enjoy the priviledge of having those marriages recognized under civil law. Of course, I've yet to hear one of the "religious freedom" yahoos explain why it's ok not to respect the religious beliefs of those churches.

Marriage has traditionally had a religious component, but not only do religions have differing views on homosexuality and same-sex unions (which have changed over time - historians have discovered extensive evidence of early CHRISTIAN ceremonies for the binding of same-sex unions), marriage has also had a "life" outside of religion. In fact for long periods of time - even after the birth of Christ - it was almost entirely a civil affair.

You're welcome to your religion and your views. You're not welcome to impose them on me.

RYNJ
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:03 PM
im gay, but seriouslly I dont really care about this whole marriage thing. I don't need a piece of paper to tell me that I will love someone for the rest of my life.

Scotso
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:08 PM
I don't interfere with people in their churches, so they shouldn't interfere in my life. I'm sorry, but people who are opposed to gay marriage are only so because they are homophobic. There's no logic reason for it. Homophobia is the illogical reason.

Helen Lawson
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:08 PM
im gay, but seriouslly I dont really care about this whole marriage thing. I don't need a piece of paper to tell me that I will love someone for the rest of my life.

I see your point, but I have known more than a few gay couples, who I swear, they're like from a 50's TV show. They want that piece of paper. It's very important, even apart from the benefits and rights viewpoint. I have, however, never ran into one who have twin beds in their bedroom. Blonde wood beds with gold piping, yes, twin beds, no.

AjdeNate!
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:10 PM
I personally don't care about marriage in the slightest. My biggest issue is telling me that I can't do something. Sure, I never will ever get married, but don't tell me that I can't. I'd like my options left open thanks.

griffin
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:12 PM
im gay, but seriouslly I dont really care about this whole marriage thing. I don't need a piece of paper to tell me that I will love someone for the rest of my life.

No, but if you're dealing with custody issues; if one of you gets seriously ill/injured or worse, dies; if you need to deal with hospitals, probate courts; if you want to get them insurance (or vice versa), if you (insert any one of 1000+ benefits/responsibilities directly tied to civil marraige)...it sure comes in handy.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 1st, 2005, 01:25 AM
In some ways I can see their point. "Marriage" is in a way tied to religion. Especially in the western christian world. So it's almost like making a mockery of the institution of marriage which is based on their religious beliefs, etc...

Really? And Divorce doesnt do that? Isn't Divorce a bad thing in the bible?


Oh and speaking of mockery and marriage what about Reality tv shows like The Bachelor? What about drive thru weddings in Vegas? What about the fact that you can meet someone in the street and get married that same day. Thats not a mockery?

What about couples who get married for the thrill? Like britney spears did? What about Mail Order brides?

In any case Marriage is a secular contract which entitles the couple to certain benefits. You don't have to be married in a church you can go to city hall. Whats religious about that?

People who are against gay marriage are just homophobic.

~ The Leopard ~
Jul 1st, 2005, 01:31 AM
Well, on another thread American posters were making a big fuss about the importance of monogamy. One poster claimed that adultery is still illegal in American jurisdictions, and I have no reason to disbelieve her. I've also seen figures (perhaps unreliable ones) suggesting that a lot of gay men would want to have open marriages. So I suppose it just could make open marriage more acceptable over time if marriages between gay men became commonplace.

Given my attitude to monogamy I actually think this would be a good thing, but I can see why conservatives, especially religious conservatives, and especially in the puritan US, would have the opposite view. It might not even happen like this at all, but I've seen conservatives argue in this way, so maybe it really is a component in their thinking ... or at least that of some of them. :shrug:

Wigglytuff
Jul 1st, 2005, 02:25 AM
Jiggly, we live in a most "Christian" society.

Especially in America, "One nation under God" and "In God, we trust".

Yes you're right, but read my first sentence. To them, marriage is church/religion based.

Anyway, to avoid such prejudices I suggest we start our own religions. Look at my other thread. ;)

and if some people think marriage is based on the church that only shows how stupid they are (even as late as the middle ages and Renaissance in Europe marriages were not religious affairs, the church was still trying to gain a foothold on marriage). why should the :retard: people get to make the rules for everyone?

America is supposed to have freedom of religion. sure during the civil war Lincoln decided to add in god we trust to the currency but i don't see why that should have anything to do with how marriage is valued.

Wigglytuff
Jul 1st, 2005, 02:45 AM
I understand what all of you are saying, but really, if you're comfortable with your belief system, it shouldn't matter. If you really think marriage is only between a man and a woman before the eyes of God, do you really care if a bunch of gay people are running around telling people they're married or even have the legal right to call themselves that? Isn't the joke sort of on them, so why get all uptight about it.
I don't care if someone goes out and forges a fake Oscar and walks around muttering an acceptance speech. I know the truth, and what someone else does has no effect on me.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wigglytuff
Jul 1st, 2005, 02:46 AM
"I think that gay marriage should be between a man and a woman."

- Arnold Schwarzenegger

:p
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Lord Nelson
Jul 1st, 2005, 11:44 AM
It is? :o

It's like the Da Vinci Code. All these people going nuts over it. Big deal. I took it as an interesting piece of fiction and an interesting what if. Like I'm going to give up my religion over a Dan Brown book? And if someone did, how does that affect my religion? People are free to believe what they want to, exercise free will, isn't that in the Bible, or am I mixing that up with a movie script? :o
Dan Brown is merely doing what other authors did before him such as Umberto Eco with 'The name of the Rose' one of my favourite novels as well as the movie which I saw before reading the book. The monk Jorge should be classifyed as one of the best villains in movies. The actor who potrayed him was stunning. I have not read Dan Brown's books but I may do so if I lke Hank's Da Vinci movie.

DevilishAttitude
Jul 1st, 2005, 12:37 PM
I don't agree with gay marriage but it's not a big deal to me.

I don't understand why it's a big deal at all. In Britain there is zero talk of making it legal. Except if Elton John's in the papers... :o