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polishprodigy
Jun 26th, 2005, 06:12 PM
Hi all,

I just have some questions about the situation in Northern Ireland:

1) Does the Republic of Ireland support re-unification with Northern Ireland?

2) The British and Irish governments have talked in the past about "majority consent" as to whether Northern Ireland is British or Irish. Why havn't they held a referendum to decide this? They could make it 51% or over, and have a vote on it, wouldn't that solve the situation?

3) They have had all these agreements, and attempts to have multi-party multi-faith governments, but I guess this hasn't worked due to some boycotts. What is the likelihood of Northern Ireland separating from Great Britain? Does Great Britain hold on to Northern Ireland only because of the strong lobby group by Protestants or "Loyalists" who want to stay with Great Britain?

Thank you to anyone who helps clear this up for me. I came across a documentary about the violence and history of Northern Ireland, which got me even more curious and got me to think of these questions, which I have been unable to answer.

rightous
Jun 26th, 2005, 06:18 PM
Gee there isn't enough days in the year to discuss Northern Ireland. Basically there is not majority consent to leave the UK since there is a Protestant majority in NI, although it has decrease to about 55-45%. I can't see NI leaving the UK as an independent state as it could not financially support itself as it is the poorest region of the UK.

Martian Willow
Jun 26th, 2005, 06:19 PM
Hi all,

I just have some questions about the situation in Northern Ireland:

1) Does the Republic of Ireland support re-unification with Northern Ireland?

Not officially, they gave up claims to it a long time ago (partly so as not to condone terrorism, I expect). Probably a lot of Irish people do, though.

2) The British and Irish governments have talked in the past about "majority consent" as to whether Northern Ireland is British or Irish. Why havn't they held a referendum to decide this? They could make it 51% or over, and have a vote on it, wouldn't that solve the situation?

No need, the proportions are generally known. Protestants are a fairly large majority.

3) They have had all these agreements, and attempts to have multi-party multi-faith governments, but I guess this hasn't worked due to some boycotts. What is the likelihood of Northern Ireland separating from Great Britain? Does Great Britain hold on to Northern Ireland only because of the strong lobby group by Protestants or "Loyalists" who want to stay with Great Britain?

The likelihood is very low, right now. Britain holds on to Northern Ireland because the majority of Northern Irish people consider themselves British.

:)

polishprodigy
Jun 26th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Wow, a complex conflict!

I just read that the Republic of ireland ammended its constitution so as to take away its claim to the territory of Northern Ireland, in order to try to convince Protestants that they would not be forced into joining Ireland.

Northern Ireland is poor, they were saying once the most poor next to Portugal in all of Western Europe. But wouldn't joining Ireland make it richer?

rightous
Jun 26th, 2005, 06:40 PM
When the good friday agreement came about, the people of the Republic of Ireland had to vote whether to amend the constitution in order to abandon article 33 (that is the claim that Ireland included Northern Ireland), 73% voted in favour of amendment.

There is a tendency to think that if an united Ireland did occur it would bankrupt the Republic of Ireland

Lord Nelson
Jun 26th, 2005, 08:59 PM
Wow, a complex conflict!

I just read that the Republic of ireland ammended its constitution so as to take away its claim to the territory of Northern Ireland, in order to try to convince Protestants that they would not be forced into joining Ireland.

Northern Ireland is poor, they were saying once the most poor next to Portugal in all of Western Europe. But wouldn't joining Ireland make it richer?
Actually ex-Yugoslavia which is considered part of western Europe has countries like Bosnia and Macedonia and Kosovo region which is far poorer than N. Ireland. In fact N. Ireland actually has a higher capita income than even Portugal and Greece. N. Ireland due to its location thus is not as poor as these countries/regions.

Martian Willow
Jun 26th, 2005, 09:06 PM
Sorry...who considers Yugoslavia Western Europe? :awww:

Lord Nelson
Jun 26th, 2005, 09:09 PM
During the Cold War, Yugoslavia was communist but was not a satellite of the Soviet Union. It was friendlier with western Europe than with the Soviets and their allies and so it was considered as being West of the 'Iron Curtain'. Yugoslavia was also in the 70s and 80s richer than any country from Eastern Europe and had same standard of living as in Portugal. Perhaps this was due to the richer regions of Slovenia and Croatia.

Andy Mac
Jun 29th, 2005, 02:17 PM
northern ireland=part of britain
ireland=on their muthafukin selves

*JR*
Jun 29th, 2005, 02:37 PM
Lets go back to the original partition of 1922, when the original IRA (Irish Republican Army) negotiated independence for 26 of the 32 counties, creating the Republic of Ireland. 6 counties with a Protestant majority were carved out to create "Ulster Province", aka Northern Ireland.

Now lets compare that "take it or leave" it deal (that got IRA leader Michael Collins killed by a Catholic hardliner, though his rival and partner Eamonn DeValera was Ireland's leader for decades afterwards) with 1990's South Africa.

Many white Afrikaaners wanted a similar "white majority state" created. But the world had progressed (maybe due to the ethnic genocide of WWII) to where it backed Nelson Mandela in flat out rejecting such "apartheid by mapmakers".

Had the Irish Republic not broken away from Britain until then, I doubt that there'd even be a Northern Ireland today.

Andy T
Jun 29th, 2005, 02:57 PM
Most of the portestants in Northern Ireland are mainly descended not from English settlers but from Scottish settlers who were given land there by James VI of Scotland when he became King James I of England (Ireland was only conquered at the end of Elizabeth I's reign). Ireland was not formally merged with Great Britain for another 200 years.

What would happen if Scotland and England dissolved their union? As it wouldn't (couldn't because of the legal status of the union) ) be a case of one leaving the union and the other staying, there would be a need to decide where Northern Ireland would go. Independance or union with the Irish republic, Scotland or England?

rightous
Jun 29th, 2005, 03:10 PM
Lets go back to the original partition of 1922, when the original IRA (Irish Republican Army) negotiated independence for 26 of the 32 counties, creating the Republic of Ireland. 6 counties with a Protestant majority were carved out to create "Ulster Province", aka Northern Ireland.

Now lets compare that "take it or leave" it deal (that got IRA leader Michael Collins killed by a Catholic hardliner, though his rival and partner Eamonn DeValera was Ireland's leader for decades afterwards) with 1990's South Africa.

Many white Afrikaaners wanted a similar "white majority state" created. But the world had progressed (maybe due to the ethnic genocide of WWII) to where it backed Nelson Mandela in flat out rejecting such "apartheid by mapmakers".

Had the Irish Republic not broken away from Britain until then, I doubt that there'd even be a Northern Ireland today.


In fact alot of catholics blame Eamon DeValera as it was his selfishness and ego that prevented the creation of an Irish State to begin with. Most settlers were as been previously outlines Scottish but it was an English monarchy who brought them here.

Northern Ireland's probs are built on history and politics and god I wish they would get over it

*JR*
Jun 29th, 2005, 03:34 PM
In fact alot of catholics blame Eamon DeValera as it was his selfishness and ego that prevented the creation of an Irish State to begin with. Most settlers were as been previously outlines Scottish but it was an English monarchy who brought them here.

Northern Ireland's probs are built on history and politics and god I wish they would get over it
OK, DeValera wasn't perfect. You made no attempt though to answer my contrast between Ireland 1916-22 and South Africa 1990-94 (re. carving out "homelands" for ethnic minorities or not).

rightous
Jun 29th, 2005, 03:41 PM
I didn't answer it b/c i don't think its relevant they are two completely different situations and contexts, driven by different political, social and economic forces

rightous
Jun 29th, 2005, 03:42 PM
DeValera not perfect, the man was a power hungry animal who thought only of himself and not his country. Although I should add i am not a republican!!lol

jenny161185
Jun 29th, 2005, 03:49 PM
I know alot of republicans who would love to see Nothern Ireland and the Republic merge

rightous
Jun 29th, 2005, 03:52 PM
Jenny that is what republicans are people who want NI and the republic to merge;)

*JR*
Jun 29th, 2005, 04:22 PM
I didn't answer it b/c i don't think its relevant they are two completely different situations and contexts, driven by different political, social and economic forces
One can say that about just about any 2 situations. The inescapable similarity here is that in each case, members of an ethnic minority who had dominated and exploited the majority wanted to preserve a part of it where they'd long be the majority.

If we can agree (I hope) that it would have been wrong in South Africa, why was it not also wrong in Ireland? And if the creation of Ulster wasn't the blatant carving out of a Protestant majority "homeland", why wasn't County Donegal (upper left on map) included in the north? (Too many Catholics)?

http://cdn.mapquest.com/mqatlasenglish/nireland

Andy Mac
Jun 29th, 2005, 04:31 PM
all i kno is (becuase i lived in East Belfast for 12 years of the 16 of my life) is that im from Northern Ireland (Ulster) and im brittish:D......

*JR*
Jun 29th, 2005, 04:42 PM
U2 - Sunday Bloody Sunday

I can't believe the news today
Oh, I can't close my eyes
And make it go away
How long...
How long must we sing this song?
How long? How long...
cause tonight...we can be as one
Tonight...

Broken bottles under children's feet
Bodies strewn across the dead end street
But I won't heed the battle call
It puts my back up
Puts my back up against the wall

Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday

And the battle's just begun
There's many lost, but tell me who has won
The trench is dug within our hearts
And mothers, children, brothers, sisters
Torn apart

Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday

How long...
How long must we sing this song?
How long? How long...
cause tonight...we can be as one
Tonight...tonight...

Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday

Wipe the tears from your eyes
Wipe your tears away
Oh, wipe your tears away
Oh, wipe your tears away
(Sunday, Bloody Sunday)
Oh, wipe your blood shot eyes
(Sunday, Bloody Sunday)

Sunday, Bloody Sunday (Sunday, Bloody Sunday)
Sunday, Bloody Sunday (Sunday, Bloody Sunday)

And it's true we are immune
When fact is fiction and TV reality
And today the millions cry
We eat and drink while tomorrow they die

(Sunday, Bloody Sunday)

The real battle just begun
To claim the victory Jesus won
On...

Sunday Bloody Sunday
Sunday Bloody Sunday...

Andy T
Jun 29th, 2005, 04:52 PM
There were also strategic and economic reasons for the retention of the North. Belfast had a huge shipyard and the North was the industrial centre of the island. The partition enabled the British to control the entrance to the Irish sea from the North (see map), thus ensuring better protection for the vital ports of Glasgow and Liverpool.

rightous
Jun 29th, 2005, 06:28 PM
JR I also like The Cranberries Zombie about the troubles as well.

While I do not disagree there are similairities between South Africa (and I do agree that South Africans blacks should be in power since they are in the majority), the troubles in NI are based on deeper and longer political issues. There is no doubt there was reasons as to why the 6 counties of Northern Ireland were retained, for economic and strategic reasons but the enslaught of the war of independence and the subsequent irish civil war was the ultimate reason behind the creation of NI. An interesting summary of NI is by the Irish poet Seamus Heaney's 'Act of Union'.

Being Northern Irish and having lived here nearly all my life, i can't help but think why we can't work these issues out, but stubborness and bigotry seem always to prevail

rightous
Jun 29th, 2005, 06:31 PM
Act of Union

I

To-night, a first movement, a pulse,
As if the rain in bogland gathered head
To slip and flood: a bog-burst,
A gash breaking open the ferny bed.
Your back is a firm line of eastern coast
And arms and legs are thrown
Beyond your gradual hills. I caress
The heaving province where our past has grown.
I am the tall kingdom over your shoulder
That you would neither cajole nor ignore.
Conquest is a lie. I grow older
Conceding your half-independant shore
Within whose borders now my legacy
Culminates inexorably.

II

And I am still imperially
Male, leaving you with pain,
The rending process in the colony,
The battering ram, the boom burst from within.
The act sprouted an obsinate fifth column
Whose stance is growing unilateral.
His heart beneath your heart is a wardrum
Mustering force. His parasitical
And ignmorant little fists already
Beat at your borders and I know they're cocked
At me across the water. No treaty
I foresee will salve completely your tracked
And stretchmarked body, the big pain
That leaves you raw, like opened ground, again

*JR*
Jun 29th, 2005, 06:43 PM
JR I also like The Cranberries Zombie about the troubles as well.

While I do not disagree there are similairities between South Africa (and I do agree that South Africans blacks should be in power since they are in the majority), the troubles in NI are based on deeper and longer political issues. There is no doubt there was reasons as to why the 6 counties of Northern Ireland were retained, for economic and strategic reasons but the enslaught of the war of independence and the subsequent irish civil war was the ultimate reason behind the creation of NI. An interesting summary of NI is by the Irish poet Seamus Heaney's 'Act of Union'.

Being Northern Irish and having lived here nearly all my life, i can't help but think why we can't work these issues out, but stubborness and bigotry seem always to prevail
I'll answer the geo-strategic point in a post replying to Andy's point about the ports. And I love the Cranberries! ;) (Joana take note, I don't just work the "Balkans desk"). :tape:

Another head hangs lowly
Child is slowly taken
And if islands cause the silence
Who are we mistaking
But you see it's not me
It's not my family
In your head in your head
They are fighting

With their tanks and their bombs
and their bombs and their guns
In your head in your head they are crying...........

Chorus:
In your head...
In your head...
Zombie zombie zombie ei ei
What's in your head...
In your head...
Zombie, zombie, zombie ei, ei, ei , oh.....do,do,do,do,do,do,do,do

Another mother's breaking heart is taking over ... the violence causes silence
we must be mistaken
its the same old thing since 1916
in your head in your head
their still fighting
With their tanks and their bombs
and their bombs and their guns
In your head in your head they are dying...........

~~Chorus~~~

Halardfan
Jun 29th, 2005, 08:51 PM
While Northern Ireland has come a long way, its problems, as we all know are far from over. I think what should ideally be the focus is the current situation, as the obsession with the past is something that extremists on both sides share.

Id love the be able to put the blame for the current impass simply on the politicians, but the fact is a signifcant chunk of the Northern Irish population have turned to the extremes in recent years, in the shape of the DUP and Sinn Fein/IRA, whereas the more moderate SDLP and UUP have dwindled away.

rightous
Jun 29th, 2005, 09:08 PM
While Northern Ireland has come a long way, its problems, as we all know are far from over. I think what should ideally be the focus is the current situation, as the obsession with the past is something that extremists on both sides share.

Id love the be able to put the blame for the current impass simply on the politicians, but the fact is a signifcant chunk of the Northern Irish population have turned to the extremes in recent years, in the shape of the DUP and Sinn Fein/IRA, whereas the more moderate SDLP and UUP have dwindled away.

Disagree with this to a certain extent, firstly a large chuck of the population did not vote. Secondly the political system failed (i.e. power sharing) when the UUP and SDLP were the majority. Thirdly it is seen by some people that Sinn Fein are the only party to bring about the decommissioning of the IRA (which is probably true).

The UUP is their own infighting and have not put forward strong ideas, I personally think they have been courageous and the SDLP need younger more progressive politicans.

Halardfan
Jun 29th, 2005, 09:29 PM
But I would suggest that where an election result can literally be a matter of life and death, people should be willing at least to vote, when there is so much as stake.

The UUP and SDLP have certainly made mistakes, but they remain the reasonable choice compared to the awful bigot Paisley, or the Sinn Fein/IRA with so much blood on their hands.

rightous
Jun 29th, 2005, 09:34 PM
Chris while on the whole I agree with your sediments I'm not sure whether its a question of life and death, the prospective people voted for the parties who they thought would look out for theie interests (personally I am more worried about health, education etc). The middle ground (the people who vote for the SDLP and the UUP are disillusioned with their parties as there is no assembly, direct rule, no discommissioning etc.

And god the sight of Ian Paisely as the biggest leader nearly caused me a heartattack, the man is a bigot and has blood on his hands as well

*JR*
Jun 29th, 2005, 09:49 PM
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Don't Make Them Have To Take It Away
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Make Ireland Irish Today

Great Britian You Are Tremendous
And Nobody Knows Like Me
But Really What Are You Doin'
In The Land Across The Sea

Tell Me How Would You Like It
If On Your Way To Work
You Were Stopped By Irish Soliders
Would You Lie Down Do Nothing
Would you give in or go berserk

Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Don't Make Them Have To Take It Away
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Make Ireland Irish Today

Great Britian And All The People
Say That All People Must Be Free
Meanwhile Back In Ireland
There's A Man Who Looks Like Me

And He Dreams Of God And Country
And He's Feeling Really Bad
And He's Sitting In A Prison
Should He Lie Down Do Nothing
Should Give In Or Go Mad

Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Don't Make Them Have To Take It Away
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Make Ireland Irish Today

Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Don't Make Them Have To Take It Away
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Make Ireland Irish Today

rightous
Jun 29th, 2005, 09:57 PM
very cool:)

Halardfan
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:28 AM
Id like to see far less Protestant/Catholic schools, a more mixed education system would at least help break down the barriers...

It would be great to see a genuinely non-sectarian party achieve major success in Northern Ireland, who would have real issues of health and education etc at their heart. But all the major parties still conform to the Cathloic/Protestant divide.

This is an issue that won't be solved anymore in London or Dublin, both the British and Irish govenment in recent years have done everything they reasonably can, the focus now is on the politicans and people of Northern Ireland, its in their hands.

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 12:13 PM
Chris good analysis and I agree that Integrated schools are the way to go.

For most people in NI the catholic/protestant thing is not an issue (alot of people have moved on) but in areas where loyalists and republicans control the streets there is definite bigotry. Areas of NI are in extreme poverty we need better education and better training to give these people hope.

Andy T
Jun 30th, 2005, 12:30 PM
It is sad that this division and suspicion remains as both in the Irish Republic and the rest of the UK, catholics and protestants coexist very happily almost everywhere. Fundamentally, this is about national identity, not about religion at all.

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 12:36 PM
Andy yes national identity is certainly a major factor but history and politics have also a major influence

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 01:29 PM
Northern Ireland should and will stay part of the united kingdom:D

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 01:36 PM
Andy I don't think it will, but since you come from East Belfast I expect nothing less;)

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 03:26 PM
lol...was that a rude comment!

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 03:27 PM
cuz i dont live there anymore so im open to a few suggestions on what will happen there

Andy T
Jun 30th, 2005, 04:24 PM
Andy yes national identity is certainly a major factor but history and politics have also a major influence

Absolutely. In fact both history and politics shape/influence national identity. It is such a shame that this can't be resolved satisfactorily.

I remember an exercise/project we did at school (back in the 1980s, ahem...) where our team came up with this incredibly convoluted solution of reuniting Northern Ireland with the Irish Republic but making it a decentralised federal country with states/lšnder/cantons like Germany determined on the basis of the 4 ancient kingdoms of Ireland and with each state having its own "head." We decided that way, Ulster could be self-governing on all regional matters - like Bavaria, California or wherever and have Queen Elizabeth as its head ( ie as Queen of Ulster). The other parts of Ireland (Munster, Leinster, etc) would have whom they wanted - elected or otherwise. The entire island could then elect a national government and president to deal with national and foreign policy matters but we figured that with Ireland in the EU and if it rejoined the commonwealth, the number of links would be so strong that many people in the north would be reassured. Just in case, we gave them all dual nationality anyway.

Lord Nelson
Jun 30th, 2005, 06:13 PM
It is sad that this division and suspicion remains as both in the Irish Republic and the rest of the UK, catholics and protestants coexist very happily almost everywhere. Fundamentally, this is about national identity, not about religion at all.
Well religion defines national idendity. We Europeans claim to be secular and all but we don't want Turkey to join the EU because it is a large, poor and especially a Muslim nation. So Americans we are like you, religion is a factor in European society :D

*JR*
Jun 30th, 2005, 07:59 PM
Dual nationality would be a big improvement ova that BS entity in Stormont Castle that fell on its face. Because under so-called "devolution", sovereignty remained in London, period (even if the locals could run the trash collection, etc). I've long been for letting the residents of NI elect representatives to both national Parliaments (and for the Republicans elected 2B able to take their seats in Westminster without pledging allegiance to the multi-billionaire Welfare Queen).

veryborednow
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:17 PM
It would be great to see a genuinely non-sectarian party achieve major success in Northern Ireland
My two friends from NI would like to see this aswell, but disagree as to how successful its introduction would be. A vote for a non secular party would weaken your 'side' so to speak.

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:42 PM
why dont they just let it be as it is

BUBI
Jun 30th, 2005, 09:48 PM
We Europeans claim to be secular and all but we don't want Turkey to join the EU because it is a large, poor and especially a Muslim nation.
It's not because of religion. It's mostly because of human rights issues and economy.

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:21 PM
yeah i guess thats right...its not really about religion...thats how it started..but its not about that anymore

Craigy
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:23 PM
NORTHERN Ireland is part of Britain SO JUST FUCKING ACCEPT IT! :p
We will always be British! :yeah:
EAST EAST EAST BELFAST!!!!!!!

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:25 PM
haha yes craig.....a fellow east belfaster!

Craigy
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:29 PM
haha yes craig.....a fellow east belfaster!
O yes! :yeah:
I wouldn't want to be part of the R.O.I
Anyway Why are people all of a sudden interested in Northern Ireland? :shrug:

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:29 PM
Gee you two will be wanting to invade the board next;)

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:30 PM
Craig I think in the end it will happen although not for a while

Craigy
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:32 PM
Craig I think in the end it will happen although not for a while
NOOOOOO Don't say that! :tape:
It wont happen.
And if it duz well ill move to england :p HAHA! :lol:

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:32 PM
Craig...lets Invade The Board...for The Red Hand Commandos!

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:33 PM
Uvf Forever!

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:35 PM
OK not a great fan of the UVF since they have murdered thousands of people

lol @ Craig well at least you will back with your own people;)

Craigy
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:36 PM
Craig...lets Invade The Board...for The Red Hand Commandos!
HERE WE GO :p
http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2003/images/ulster.gif

Craigy
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:37 PM
OK not a great fan of the UVF since they have murdered thousands of people

lol @ Craig well at least you will back with your own people;)
Oh I sure will :p ;)

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:39 PM
Andy and Craig why do you support the UVF and Red Hand Commandos??

Do you have a hatred of catholics? Why if you do? And do you have catholic friends?

Craigy
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:42 PM
Andy and Craig why do you support the UVF and Red Hand Commandos??

Do you have a hatred of catholics? Why if you do? And do you have catholic friends?
I hate The Catholics well.... I.R.A because they murdered my Great Uncle.
ANd yes I do have a Catholic friend. I play tennis with him! :p :)
I support the UVF because im FROM EAST BELFAST!

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:46 PM
I have no problem with you hating the IRA but not all catholics support the IRA and their actions so why would you hate all catholics. And since you have developed a friendship with a catholic has your opinion changed?

Do you realise that the UVF is the reason why alot of problems exist in East Belfast, drugs, violence etc and they kill protestants and catholics

*JR*
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:47 PM
NORTHERN Ireland is part of Britain SO JUST FUCKING ACCEPT IT! :p
We will always be British! :yeah:
EAST EAST EAST BELFAST!!!!!!!
After you get done throwing petrol bombs @ the security forces manning the barriers @ midnight after Orange Order marches this summer, you can face the facts. You're descended from ppl relocated there (mostly from Scotland, as rightous said) to consolidate a colonial conquest. Originally of the whole country, with the cash crops exported as in 1847, while many natives starved to death (and others came to America, of course).

After WW II, European (including British) colonialism collapsed in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. So the Brits can free their colony across the Irish Sea too, @ long last. And veryborednow, the (non-sectarian) Alliance Party has never gotten a large enough vote 2B a political force. (As far as I'm concerned, Craig and Andy can stay there... as Irish citizens whose capital is Dublin). Gerry Adams rocks! :p

Craigy
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:50 PM
I have no problem with you hating the IRA but not all catholics support the IRA and their actions so why would you hate all catholics. And since you have developed a friendship with a catholic has your opinion changed?

Do you realise that the UVF is the reason why alot of problems exist in East Belfast, drugs, violence etc and they kill protestants and catholics
I dont hate all Catholics.
The I.R.A do eactly the same so......
But anyway I don't really get involved this much. All i doo is play tennis and get on with my life just like a typical teenager.
I think we should just stop with this and talk about somethin else....

Craigy
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:53 PM
After you get done throwing petrol bombs @ the security forces manning the barriers @ midnight after Orange Order marches this summer, you can face the facts. You're descended from ppl relocated there (mostly from Scotland, as rightous said) to consolidate a colonial conquest. Originally of the whole country, with the cash crops exported as in 1847, while many natives starved to death (and others came to America, of course).

After WW II, European (including British) colonialism collapsed in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. So the Brits can free their colony across the Irish Sea too, @ long last. And veryborednow, the (non-sectarian) Alliance Party has never gotten a large enough vote 2B a political force. (As far as I'm concerned, Craig and Andy can stay there... as Irish citizens whose capital is Dublin). Gerry Adams rocks! :p
AHHHH right this is it! I am British. NOT IRISH! Northern Ireland IS NOT part of the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND!
But i cant be bothered talking bout this because i don't usually get involved with all this UVF IRA trouble....

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:53 PM
Yes Craig....thats The Flag Of Winners!

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:53 PM
Hey Craig I wasn't having a go I was just asking because I think its interesting and I agree with you about the IRA

but i have friends who never met a catholic or protestant until university thats crazy

Anyways Craig are you a spide then;) !!lol

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:55 PM
gerry adams is a freaking monkey.....he should be shot in the face

Andy Mac
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:55 PM
i dont hate all catholics....just the ones that hate the prods....

Craigy
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:58 PM
Ok can we talk about somethin else to do with N.I.
Have u been before?

rightous
Jun 30th, 2005, 11:03 PM
Live there and born there;)

Lord Nelson
Jun 30th, 2005, 11:07 PM
It's not because of religion. It's mostly because of human rights issues and economy.
You forgot the word 'just' before the word 'because'. Problem with Turkey is that it has a whole list of problems. It is a poor country, it is large, its population will be more than Germany's (currently the most populous nation in the EU so alot of EU subsidies will have to be used to develop Turkey). Many Turks will also be feared to migrate in masses a bit compared to the fears of the Polish plumber currently expressed in France & Germany. It has human right issues, not just against the Kurds but also aganst the tiny Christian and Jewish populations. Christians & Jews represent less than 1% of Turkey's total population which shows that religious minorities are not welcome in Turkey. Compare this to its neighbours like Greece, Albania (a Muslim nation), Bulgaria etc. that have religious minorites that represent at least 5% of total population.
Sorry to say this, but the real problem if not fear concerns the religion of Islam. Ask any Turk and they will tell you that this is what Europeans fear about. Many Europeans also believe this and have trouble with their large Muslim populations.

*JR*
Jun 30th, 2005, 11:24 PM
AHHHH right this is it! I am British. NOT IRISH!
I presume the Taoiseach (one with some balls, not Blair's Buddy Bertie) and the Dail will give you a permanent residence permit. Then you can bow B4 the royal parasites in Buckingham Palace without even having to move to Great Britain, as the country should be called.

And nobody has even tried to answer a question I posed B4 ITT: if the 1922 partition wasn't based solely on the retention of power by colonizers in a "Protestant homeland", why was County Donegal not included in Northern Ireland, which it fits geographically with "hand in glove"?

rightous
Jul 1st, 2005, 12:01 PM
JR it wasn't add for the reason tou stated because it had a catholic majority

best best better
Jul 1st, 2005, 12:08 PM
HERE WE GO :p
http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2003/images/ulster.gif


OMG! I saw a guy on the tube yesterday with that tattoo... and I was thinking about this thread, because I found it so interesting. It's a very provocative emblem, no?

I think this thread is great, but can I ask some of you knowledgable ones a question? I don't understand how there can ever be a settlement if
i) Republicans want to be part of Eire and the Unionists don't
ii) Republic of Ireland isn't keen on a united Ireland

:scratch:

best best better
Jul 1st, 2005, 12:12 PM
Well religion defines national idendity. We Europeans claim to be secular and all but we don't want Turkey to join the EU because it is a large, poor and especially a Muslim nation. So Americans we are like you, religion is a factor in European society :D

OFFTOPIC: Doesn't EU's reluctance have more to do with Human Rights than Turkey being a Muslim country?

*JR*
Jul 1st, 2005, 12:29 PM
I think this thread is great, but can I ask some of you knowledgable ones a question? I don't understand how there can ever be a settlement if
i) Republicans want to be part of Eire and the Unionists don't
ii) Republic of Ireland isn't keen on a united Ireland

:scratch:
Let me answer those 2 items in reverse order:

ii) One doesn't (ethically) get to cherry pick based on economics. When the Iron Curtain fell, West Germany accepted the costs of reunification. If Kim Jong Il and his clique were ousted, and the new leaders asked for union with South Korea, that would happen too.

i) The Unionists are the descendants of a deal forced upon the Republicans in 1922, which (as stated ITT) the way apartheid ended in South Africa 7 decades later shows is no longer in keeping with "Western values". They should be allowed to choose any of:

a) Becoming Irish citizens.

b) Living there under residency permits.

c) Relocating to Britain or wherever else.

Lord Nelson
Jul 1st, 2005, 01:29 PM
OFFTOPIC: Doesn't EU's reluctance have more to do with Human Rights than Turkey being a Muslim country?
Oh because you seriously think that if the human rights issue is solved than Europe will welcome Turkey with open arms? You seem to live in Britain whereas I live near the border between France and Switzerland. The French (and Germans) are not as chummy about welcoming Turkey as Britain is. Let me remind you that the Turks have recently abolished the death penalty and though there is still skirmishes with the PKK (Kurdish militia groups), the battles are no way as bloody as in the 80s. But Turks still treat the Kurds and other minorities such as Assyrians as crap and religious minorites are not really free to worship. The Europeans do not have a good rapport with their Muslim minorities including Britain. Have you been to Finsbury Park? Stop kidding yourself. Europeans fear Islam and won't let Turkey join the EU die because they don't want Europe to be flooded with millions of poor and Muslim migrant workers.
For my part I don't mind Turkey joining the EU but only if they improve on their hr records, especially against religious minorities.

best best better
Jul 1st, 2005, 02:53 PM
Let me answer those 2 items in reverse order:


i) The Unionists are the descendants of a deal forced upon the Republicans in 1922, which (as stated ITT) the way apartheid ended in South Africa 7 decades later shows is no longer in keeping with "Western values". They should be allowed to choose any of:

a) Becoming Irish citizens.

b) Living there under residency permits.

c) Relocating to Britain or wherever else.

Well yes, that seems simple but I guess the fact is that they feel/are British, and that Northern Ireland is a part of Britain. So...

*JR*
Jul 1st, 2005, 03:26 PM
Well yes, that seems simple but I guess the fact is that they feel/are British, and that Northern Ireland is a part of Britain. So...
Fine. Let's have a referendum, covering both the Republic and so-called "Ulster". If the result is to bequeath those 6 counties to the Brits, OK. But they occupied Ireland ages ago, and kept part of it (even after giving up India and the Middle East post WW II). If I "feel" that your car is mine, shall I just take it and keep it?
:confused:

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:19 AM
BOO ANDY :p

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:22 AM
haha...craig...whats your fav part of northern ireland!?

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:23 AM
My Tennis club :p

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:25 AM
i think my fav par is that it has nothing to do with being irish!

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:27 AM
:p

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:29 AM
i want battered sausages!man my rents shud never have moved us form that awesoem brittish country!

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:30 AM
Do they not do Battered sausages in canada?

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:32 AM
no:sad:
or psaties! *drools hardcore* and i want some spicy monster munch!

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:33 AM
mmmmmmm MONSTER MUNCH!!!!!!!! :drool:

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:38 AM
man they soo good.......and teh haribo candy..i usta eat packs of those every day at ashfield!

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:39 AM
haribo :drool: haha think im gonna go and get some to eat now...

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:43 AM
haha no fair!

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:47 AM
im too tired to eat!

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:47 AM
haha go to bed then mate

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:49 AM
NEVER :p

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:51 AM
dude yu jsut said yu were goin in 5

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:52 AM
*cough* No? :confused: :p

Erase/Rewind
Jul 2nd, 2005, 07:10 PM
Live there and born there;)

I thought you currently resided in Sydney?

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 07:11 PM
ohhhhh the truth comes out!

Erase/Rewind
Jul 2nd, 2005, 07:14 PM
ohhhhh the truth comes out!

Are you also from East Belfast?

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 07:19 PM
yes i am from there

Erase/Rewind
Jul 2nd, 2005, 07:27 PM
yes i am from there

Don't tell me. A Glentoran fan? ;)

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 07:28 PM
heck yeah..down with linfield!

rightous
Jul 2nd, 2005, 09:11 PM
Erase and Rewind I used to reside in Sydeny but no more back a while, how did you know that??

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 09:20 PM
YEEOOOO Go ON DA GLENTORAN!!!!!!!!!
iM FROM EAST BELFAST AND IM TIPSY!!! O YEAAAAA
WELL MAYBE A BIT MORE THAN TIPSY :p

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 09:56 PM
hahaha and your only 14!

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 10:00 PM
Well im sure u were drinkin at my age.
And im fine now! so :ras:

Andy Mac
Jul 2nd, 2005, 10:02 PM
hahah aint gona carry this conversation any further!

Craigy
Jul 2nd, 2005, 10:04 PM
exactly :p

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:02 PM
Erase and Rewind I used to reside in Sydeny but no more back a while, how did you know that??

You told me. That was a while back now.

You're the guy who attended Queens, right? And you follow Arsenal?

Barrie_Dude
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:05 PM
My family imigrated from the Ulster area in the early 1800's. And I may have missed this answer, however I will ask anyway.... Was what is now Northern Ireland a part of Ireland at any point? Were they not one country and part of of the UK?

rightous
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:11 PM
You told me. That was a while back now.

You're the guy who attended Queens, right? And you follow Arsenal?

yeah thats correct, sorry can you refresh me about you, when did we chat:)

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:14 PM
My family imigrated from the Ulster area in the early 1800's. And I may have missed this answer, however I will ask anyway.... Was what is now Northern Ireland a part of Ireland at any point? Were they not one country and part of of the UK?

What heritage are you Barrie? Ulster Scots/Presbyterian possibly.

Barrie_Dude
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:16 PM
What heritage are you Barrie? Ulster Scots/Presbyterian possibly. Ulster Presbyterians for sure

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:16 PM
yeah thats correct, sorry can you refresh me about you, when did we chat:)

Years back. When I posted on the sanex forums.

Barrie_Dude
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:22 PM
Years back. When I posted on the sanex forums.You were at the Sanex/WTA site? I was 2! :eek:

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Ulster Presbyterians for sure

I myself am Protestant. And from a staunchly Loyalist area of Belfast.

Barrie, Northern Ireland was created in 1921. When the Irish Free State achieved independence, Northern Ireland, under the procedures laid out in the Anglo Irish Treaty, 1921, declined to join, and so remained part of the United Kingdom.

Now this is how I envisage it: The majority of the population is unionist and wishes to remain part of the United Kingdom, but a significant minority, known as the nationalists, want a united Ireland.There are also some Catholics who wish to stay within the UK. Personally I donít not see a unification within the next 20-30 years. Although currently, there are ongoing power struggles within Unionism on which is the best policy to strive for, for the better future of both traditions.

rightous
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:34 PM
perfect summary!

What was your name on the sanex board

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 06:44 PM
perfect summary!

What was your name on the sanex board

I had numerous usernames, at various periods on the board.

rightous
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:03 PM
such as;)

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:27 PM
such as;)

Anne Bonney.;)

She was Irish after all.

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:35 PM
You were at the Sanex/WTA site? I was 2! :eek:

Who is that, in your avatar? Is it Holly Marie Combs?

rightous
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:36 PM
Cool, you have a brilliant memory:) There are alot of peeps from the old Sanex board here, but not as cool as me;)

So wot are you doing?

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:43 PM
Cool, you have a brilliant memory:) There are alot of peeps from the old Sanex board here, but not as cool as me;)

So wot are you doing?

When I frequented the chat room at sanex, I chatted regularly with someone whom I believed to be one of the administrators there, long story, but she, I presumed it was a she, and the person told me they were female, so I never disputed what she said.

One night when we were chatting she asked me if I was posting as Ďrightousí?

When you ask what am I doing, do you mean, which profession?

*JR*
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:50 PM
Barrie, Northern Ireland was created in 1921. When the Irish Free State achieved independence, Northern Ireland, under the procedures laid out in the Anglo Irish Treaty, 1921, declined to join, and so remained part of the United Kingdom.

You make it sound like it "just happened by itself" with the words above! For Chrissakes, that nice and neat "Anglo Irish treaty" was the equivilant of what many Afrikaaners wanted in South Africa, but a more enlightened world backed Mandela in rejecting decades after the dirty deal Ireland was given a "take it or leave it" on! :rolleyes:

There were also strategic and economic reasons for the retention of the North. Belfast had a huge shipyard and the North was the industrial centre of the island. The partition enabled the British to control the entrance to the Irish sea from the North (see map), thus ensuring better protection for the vital ports of Glasgow and Liverpool.
True, especially in the aftermath of WW I. But just as the US leased Guantanamo Bay from Cuba after the Spanish-American War (and has kept it even through Fidel Castro's 46 year reign) the Brits could have leased port facilities from a united, independent Ireland to help safeguard British ports in a future war.

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:52 PM
Cool, you have a brilliant memory:) There are alot of peeps from the old Sanex board here, but not as cool as me;)

So wot are you doing?

Where are you from again, is it Holywood direction?

rightous
Jul 4th, 2005, 07:57 PM
no to both:)

Why did the adminstrator think you were me??

JR you also need to go back to 1912 with the Home Rule fiasco with Llyod George.

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:02 PM
no to both:)

Why did the adminstrator think you were me??

JR you also need to go back to 1912 with the Home Rule fiasco with Llyod George.

You are from N.I., so am I. Could be she put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5.

Do you think JR is Da from give my head peace? ;)

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:24 PM
You make it sound like it "just happened by itself" with the words above! For Chrissakes, that nice and neat "Anglo Irish treaty" was the equivilant of what many Afrikaaners wanted in South Africa, but a more enlightened world backed Mandela in rejecting decades after the dirty deal Ireland was given a "take it or leave it" on! :rolleyes:


True, especially in the aftermath of WW I. But just as the US leased Guantanamo Bay from Cuba after the Spanish-American War (and has kept it even through Fidel Castro's 46 year reign) the Brits could have leased port facilities from a united, independent Ireland to help safeguard British ports in a future war.

I do not make it sound anything than it is other than the truth.

We all understand that the partitioning of Ireland as an entity was an attempt by the then British government to appease both the demands being made by Irish nationalists for home rule, and on the other hand, that by Irish unionists, that home rule would in fact not be conceded.

Thereís no point rehashing the past as many political leaders throughout the province have identified with. We as a country must move forward to achieve a lasting peace, with reconciliation between both communities.

Where in Ireland, North or South do you reside? And perhaps you could enlighten us with the way forward. :)

*JR*
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:27 PM
JR you also need to go back to 1912 with the Home Rule fiasco with Lloyd George.
I'll research that, but just by its name, it was bound 2B a fiasco. After conquering Ireland, raping it of most food crops in the mid 19th Century (ala the potato famine of 1847) and resettling Protestant Celts from Scotland there, the Brits should have just gotten the fuck out (instead of creating some BS "Home Rule" scheme). Re. the settlers, I'd have let them stay as Irish citizens, though the Brits should have paid the resettlement costs of those who wanted to return.

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:33 PM
I'll research that, but just by its name, it was bound 2B a fiasco. After conquering Ireland, raping it of most food crops in the mid 19th Century (ala the potato famine of 1847) and resettling Protestant Celts from Scotland there, the Brits should have just gotten the fuck out (instead of creating some BS "Home Rule" scheme). Re. the settlers, I'd have let them stay as Irish citizens, though the Brits should have paid the resettlement costs of those who wanted to return.

Thatís deplorable language.

Blame Cromwell what you are at it. LOL!

*JR*
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:34 PM
I do not make it sound anything than it is other than the truth.

We all understand that the partitioning of Ireland as an entity was an attempt by the then British government to appease both the demands being made by Irish nationalists for home rule, and on the other hand, that by Irish unionists, that home rule would in fact not be conceded.

Thereís no point rehashing the past as many political leaders throughout the province have identified with. We as a country must move forward to achieve a lasting peace, with reconciliation between both communities.

Where in Ireland, North or South do you reside? And perhaps you could enlighten us with the way forward. :)
The answer, quite simply, is for that "transplanted minority" (the Unionists) to either stay as citizens of what should have been created long ago... or leave. And re. my not living there, I never lived in many countries where there was or is opression, so I can't offer opinions about those? (The "outside world" basically brought down apartheid in South Africa, BTW. Mostly ppl like I who never set foot there).

*JR*
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:41 PM
Thatís deplorable language.

Blame Cromwell what you are at it. LOL!
@ least Cromwell beheaded some of the "royal" parasites! :p

rightous
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:41 PM
lol love your reply, I got that you were from here, where are you from, wot age etc.

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:48 PM
The answer, quite simply, is for that "transplanted minority" (the Unionists) to either stay as citizens of what should have been created long ago... or leave. And re. my not living there, I never lived in many countries where there was or is opression, so I can't offer opinions about those? (The "outside world" basically brought down apartheid in South Africa, BTW. Mostly ppl like I who never set foot there).

Thatís like imaging you are black when you are white, impossible.

You do know/understand that many of the original republicans where in fact Protestant?

So where is the oppression in Northern Ireland? And again, thanks for sharing the way forward with us. :)

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:49 PM
@ least Cromwell beheaded some of the "royal" parasites! :p

I'm not a Royalist.

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 08:54 PM
lol love your reply, I got that you were from here, where are you from, wot age etc.

Sorry, are you asking me this? :) Or *JR*

*JR*
Jul 4th, 2005, 09:00 PM
Thatís like imaging you are black when you are white, impossible.

You do know/understand that many of the original republicans where in fact Protestant?

So where is the oppression in Northern Ireland? And again, thanks for sharing the way forward with us. :)
I didn't need 2B black (or imagine that I was) to know that apartheid was wrong. I do know that there were Protestants among the original Irish Republicans. As I said that the Protestants should have been (and still should be) welcome to stay, I'm not advocating "ethnic cleansing". The oppression is in the conquering power retaining control of an enclave tailored to have a particular ethnic character.

Erase/Rewind
Jul 4th, 2005, 09:03 PM
I didn't need 2B black (or imagine that I was) to know that apartheid was wrong. I do know that there were Protestants among the original Irish Republicans. As I said that the Protestants should have been (and still should be) welcome to stay, I'm not advocating "ethnic cleansing". The oppression is in the conquering power retaining control of an enclave tailored to have a particular ethnic character.

You appear to have an opinion on everything and an answer for nothing.

Would you like to come on a visit to N.I? I can arrange it for you. :)

*JR*
Jul 4th, 2005, 09:46 PM
You appear to have an opinion on everything and an answer for nothing.

Would you like to come on a visit to N.I? I can arrange it for you. :)
When the fucking Orange Order is willing to have their militaristic march on their own GD "turf" (the Shankill Road). Or when you, Andy, or Craig can tell me what fucking business they have parading thru Portadown every summer to rub a centuries old royalist military triumph in the Catholics' faces.

Craigy
Jul 4th, 2005, 10:12 PM
Oh SHHH!!!!
If it's annoyin u so much y don't u go and do somthin about it!

rightous
Jul 4th, 2005, 11:28 PM
Rewind I was asking you:)

JR while I agree with some of your sediments, I think my Northern Irish brothers are having difficulties b/c you are not from here.

NI is a difficult place and while some of the solutions seem obvious it is not practical for instance, to tell 900,000 to just leave (although i agree get them out ;))

*JR*
Jul 4th, 2005, 11:53 PM
Rewind I was asking you:)

JR while I agree with some of your sediments, I think my Northern Irish brothers are having difficulties b/c you are not from here.

NI is a difficult place and while some of the solutions seem obvious it is not practical for instance, to tell 900,000 to just leave (although i agree get them out ;))
Heaven forbid I would tell 900 OR 900,000 to leave their homes! (That would be ethnic cleansing). :( As I posted 2 or 3 times ITT, I believe that should be up to those folks, be they Protestant, Catholic, or whatever. (By "the Brits should get the fuck out" I thought my meaning was quite clear: the British GOVERNMENT).

And again, re. my being an "outsider": that's exactly who provided the critical support (via economic sanctions) that freed Nelson Mandela and ended apartheid. And seeks to do the same thing in Burma re. Aung San Suu Kyi. We're in big trouble as a world when we can't support what we see as justice in other countries!

Craigy
Jul 5th, 2005, 12:41 PM
JR
Are you sayin that the norther irish people who are protestant should leave northern ireland?

Andy T
Jul 5th, 2005, 12:44 PM
Heaven forbid I would tell 900 OR 900,000 to leave their homes! (That would be ethnic cleansing). :( As I posted 2 or 3 times ITT, I believe that should be up to those folks, be they Protestant, Catholic, or whatever. (By "the Brits should get the fuck out" I thought my meaning was quite clear: the British GOVERNMENT).

And again, re. my being an "outsider": that's exactly who provided the critical support (via economic sanctions) that freed Nelson Mandela and ended apartheid. And seeks to do the same thing in Burma re. Aung San Suu Kyi. We're in big trouble as a world when we can't support what we see as justice in other countries!

If a referendum were held in Scotland, England & Wales about whether or not they wanted Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK, I'm not sure that they'd vote "yes".

Craigy
Jul 5th, 2005, 12:46 PM
If a referendum were held in Scotland, England & Wales about whether or not they wanted Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK, I'm not sure that they'd vote "yes".
Why do you think that?

Andy Mac
Jul 5th, 2005, 01:55 PM
:rolleyes:

Andy T
Jul 5th, 2005, 01:59 PM
Why do you think that?

To be clear, I don't know which way it'd go but there's a strand of opinion which feels that NI has cost a lot of lives and money and caused a lot of suffering over the years and that the UK would be better off without it.

Andy Mac
Jul 5th, 2005, 02:07 PM
hmmmmm....

rightous
Jul 5th, 2005, 02:11 PM
JR I agree that objective opinions are definely needed especially when politicans and people are so entrenched in their views.

*JR*
Jul 5th, 2005, 02:24 PM
JR
Are you sayin that the norther irish people who are protestant should leave northern ireland?
Jesus H. Christ, I said EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. (That the Protestants should be 100% welcome to stay if they so choose, as Irish citizens). I said the same thing in 2 or 3 different posts ITT, especially in my last one! :rolleyes:

Craigy
Jul 5th, 2005, 02:29 PM
But we dont want to be part of Ireland. We are NORTHERN Irelan and we wanna stay like that

Andy Mac
Jul 5th, 2005, 02:33 PM
i dont think the irish are welcome if all their guna do is complain about Ulster

Craigy
Jul 5th, 2005, 02:35 PM
Oh no! :bigcry: This is my 1,000 post.... I've been goin overboard!!

rightous
Jul 5th, 2005, 02:44 PM
But we dont want to be part of Ireland. We are NORTHERN Irelan and we wanna stay like that

Whats all this WE about, the point JR is making is that YOU do not represent everyone and that there should be in the future a vote to decide the status of NI.

Btw 1000 is way too much;)

Craigy
Jul 5th, 2005, 02:53 PM
Whats all this WE about, the point JR is making is that YOU do not represent everyone and that there should be in the future a vote to decide the status of NI.

Btw 1000 is way too much;)
ok well then I I I I I I I!!!!!!!
and 1,000 is way too much for the short time i've been on wtaworld! :ras:

rightous
Jul 5th, 2005, 02:56 PM
gee i have been here 3 and a half years and i'm only at 3000:)

Craigy
Jul 5th, 2005, 03:01 PM
so that's y im trying not to post as much or i'll get addicted!

Andy Mac
Jul 5th, 2005, 03:03 PM
ive been here a year and 3 days and i have more than rightous:lol: i should calm it down haha

Craigy
Jul 5th, 2005, 03:05 PM
yeh if i kept posting like i did at the weekend then i'd be past you in probably 2 months!

Halardfan
Jul 5th, 2005, 03:05 PM
Again, what matters is the situation now, past British governments certainly have plenty to answer for in their conduct in Northern Ireland, but the current one have shown amazing patience and willingness to listen...its naive to think that if the British army and government upped and left tommorow, that things would somehow be better...there would be chaos, maybe even worse than that.

Andy Mac
Jul 5th, 2005, 03:10 PM
yeh if i kept posting like i did at the weekend then i'd be past you in probably 2 months!
past who?

Craigy
Jul 5th, 2005, 03:12 PM
You :p

Erase/Rewind
Jul 5th, 2005, 06:15 PM
When the fucking Orange Order is willing to have their militaristic march on their own GD "turf" (the Shankill Road). Or when you, Andy, or Craig can tell me what fucking business they have parading thru Portadown every summer to rub a centuries old royalist military triumph in the Catholics' faces.

Ah come on over. You can lead the procession.:)

Erase/Rewind
Jul 5th, 2005, 06:22 PM
Again, what matters is the situation now, past British governments certainly have plenty to answer for in their conduct in Northern Ireland, but the current one have shown amazing patience and willingness to listen...its naive to think that if the British army and government upped and left tommorow, that things would somehow be better...there would be chaos, maybe even worse than that.

Great to read a person that has a logically and sensible idea of the situation, who does not live in the country.

Although the one agenda on Anthony Blairís government was first and foremost, stop the bombings on the mainland. There is a deep mistrust of the British government within Unionism currently, hence the very poor turnout on the local/Westminster elections.

Andy Mac
Jul 5th, 2005, 11:53 PM
hahah thers a link advertised at the bottom of this thread that says visit northern ireland:D:D

Andy Mac
Jul 6th, 2005, 01:01 AM
i am eagerly awaiting the 12th:p haha

polishprodigy
Jul 10th, 2005, 03:49 PM
Woah, I didn't mean to open up such a can of worms!!!!!!

*JR*
Jul 10th, 2005, 04:36 PM
Out of respect to the London bombing victims, I suggest that we remove all jokes (inc. the good-natured taunts) and quotes of eachother's about the IRA, etc. (Basically meaning me, Andy, Craig, and maybe Emerald). Ironically, the experience of the Metropolitan Police in dealing with those attacks presumably saved lives on Thursday, of course. Anyway, if those 3 would PM me about whether they feel we should, it would be appreciated. :)

polishprodigy
Jul 22nd, 2005, 03:17 AM
If people could remove any comments they deem now to be inappropriate or offensive, that would be considerate of them. But I don't wanna delete the thread, as it was quite educational :)