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View Full Version : Has Venus Williams become a journeywoman?


DA FOREHAND
Apr 27th, 2005, 05:43 PM
She's gone from rising star, to dominant force, to title contender, and now finally an also ran. How long will she remain in this latest stage. She seems a bit to content to lose in the quarters.

sartrista7
Apr 27th, 2005, 05:46 PM
Well, it depends how you define journeywoman. Personally, I wouldn't call anyone in the top 30 a journeywoman... given how much they all earn. It's a term reserved for players outside the top 50, really.

However, if you're the sort of person who calls the solid 7-15 players journeywomen, that is what Venus is at the moment. I know she has the talent to be more than that, but half the tour has the talent to do better than what they actually do.

Paneru
Apr 27th, 2005, 05:47 PM
Seeing how her play has improved this year from the last
and after seeing Fed Cup and hearing Zina Garrison and
Chris Evert talking of Venus' rededication to her tennis
I have no doubt she'll soon find her way to the top again.

JMO.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 27th, 2005, 05:55 PM
Seeing how her play has improved this year from the last
and after seeing Fed Cup and hearing Zina Garrison and
Chris Evert talking of Venus' rededication to her tennis
I have no doubt she'll soon find her way to the top again.

JMO.


I certainly hope so, I was beginning to think Venus was saying one thing publically, but at the same time feeling quite content right where she is in her career.

miffedmax
Apr 27th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Venus still gets more ink for losing before the quarters of tournaments than she does for winning. That's not the mark of a journeyman.

volta
Apr 27th, 2005, 05:58 PM
i just wich that this state that she was on in her last match passes quickly i wan the dominante again ^^

Staticbeef
Apr 27th, 2005, 06:09 PM
:wavey: No way does she fit the Classical definition of "Journeywoman" for at least one million reasons :sad: I feel your pain though. We love this lady sooooooooooo much :hearts: that just maybe, we resist connecting her game to her personality :eek: Yes, Vee seems like the fragile type, that would be affected by people, places and things, she is not a killer :fiery: like little sis. Venus has the heart of a champion, in that she has that fighting spirit that enables her to play on saving game and match points with impunity, while at the same time the makeup of her personality points to an individual that is very much ruled by emotions and is extremely caring, she is not beyond Martyrdom and IMO more than willing to sacrifice her dreams for those of a loved one, a child or an Ideal. I am hoping that maturity is the last peace of the puzzle she needs to banish those demons that imprison her in that very UN-champion like squirrel cage she has placed herself in, "The nice Girl Syndrome" I kinda want her to stay the same, and at the same time I want her to get mean :mad: and get what's rightfully hers. I will be in her corner no matter what, and have made peace with her present direction, and just wish I knew more people like her.

Sanneriet
Apr 27th, 2005, 06:17 PM
At the moment, I would still classify her as a title contender, but not a favorite. If she has another year like last year, then that might change.

Veenut
Apr 27th, 2005, 06:23 PM
For goodness sake, please remember Venus has been plagued with injuries and that also is a factor in her results. I think she is doing the right thing in giving her body some time heal before the FO, in order to give herself a better chance at winning.

venus_rulez
Apr 27th, 2005, 06:32 PM
Sometimes it's frustrating to watch Venus lose matches you know she would have won easily a couple years ago, but you know what I just enjoy watching her play. I mean isn't that why she's a favorite too so many people? Maybe it doesn't happen all that often, but how many people can play as brilliantly a first set as Venus did against Lindsay at amelia island from all over the court. This wasn't just baseline winners, this was beautiful play at the net, great serving, amazing defense, she's my favorite because I love her game, I love her attitude on and off the court, and I think she's a great person. So it doesn't matter if she's a journeywoman or title contender or hasbeen or whatever title any of us can come up with, because I love her whether or not she produces the results I would like her to.

kiwifan
Apr 27th, 2005, 06:40 PM
If she is then a lot of others are even more pathetic, since they'll be losing to the Journeywoman. :hehehe:

I look forward to, "how could ________________ lose to a Journeywoman like Venus Williams." :devil:

Staticbeef
Apr 28th, 2005, 10:05 AM
If she is then a lot of others are even more pathetic, since they'll be losing to the Journeywoman. :hehehe:

I look forward to, "how could ________________ lose to a Journeywoman like Venus Williams." :devil:

:wavey: lol, you are so right. It is a pretty safe bet to take,That, many will lose to this "Journewoman" :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Odd
Apr 28th, 2005, 10:16 AM
I think the fact that she loses to players she shouldnt, with no apparent excuses could frustrate people, but the fact is, Venus Can beat anyone if she wanted to. She proved that in miami when she beat her sister.

At the moment i feel she is a bit of an enigma, sort of like the Marat Safin of Womens tennis. She can have some shockers, but at the same time, you know she can snap out of it at any second and win like, stuff.

blumaroo
Apr 28th, 2005, 11:09 AM
She has too many brilliant moments to be called a journeywoman. Her play in Antwerp was superb until the final. The Serena match in Miami was top quality tennis. I do think she'll always form a threat, but I don;t foresee another grand slam for her.

le bon vivant
Apr 28th, 2005, 11:19 AM
Just because shes not a top contender for slams doesnt make her a journeywoman. She is in the Top 10 for Gods sake, she wouldnt be falling out if she chose to defend Warsaw and Berlin, because her YTD results are better now than they were this time last year (minus Charleston, of course.)

I guess the ankle-biters are finally beginning to buckle, lol. Time to jump on the bandwagon of whatever player interests me and most importantly, looks like shell be the most successful. :bounce:

ayanate
Apr 28th, 2005, 11:26 AM
I think what starter of this thread is trying to get at it seems; Is Venus content to be an outsider for the top prizes in the game of tennis? You get the feeling with people like Martina Hingis or Serena Williams that they will not hang around if it reached the stage where they felt they couldn't win big.

I do get the feeling that Venus and her dad need to talk her game up and that would give her the competitive edge that she has clearly lost. Richard knowingly or unknowingly piled a lot of pressure on his girls early on that forced them to produce the goods by bragging to the media about how good his girls were. Now it's as if she is now part of the establishment and has no more battles to fight or scores to settle.

SM
Apr 28th, 2005, 12:45 PM
pathetic thread....journeywoman = mediocre results over a long period of time

mediocre = definately not anyone who is playing tier I and II events.

SM
Apr 28th, 2005, 12:47 PM
journeywomen = the nicole pratts of the tennis world (no offence to nicole fans)

DA FOREHAND
Apr 28th, 2005, 12:49 PM
I think what starter of this thread is trying to get at it seems; Is Venus content to be an outsider for the top prizes in the game of tennis? You get the feeling with people like Martina Hingis or Serena Williams that they will not hang around if it reached the stage where they felt they couldn't win big.

I do get the feeling that Venus and her dad need to talk her game up and that would give her the competitive edge that she has clearly lost. Richard knowingly or unknowingly piled a lot of pressure on his girls early on that forced them to produce the goods by bragging to the media about how good his girls were. Now it's as if she is now part of the establishment and has no more battles to fight or scores to settle.


That's pretty insightful, how you got all them red dots is beyond me.

justin, nope no bandwagon jumping here...STEFFI til the end Venus til the end.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 28th, 2005, 12:50 PM
pathetic thread....journeywoman = mediocre results over a long period of time

mediocre = definately not anyone who is playing tier I and II events.


F! off!

DA FOREHAND
Apr 28th, 2005, 12:52 PM
Sometimes it's frustrating to watch Venus lose matches you know she would have won easily a couple years ago, but you know what I just enjoy watching her play. I mean isn't that why she's a favorite too so many people? Maybe it doesn't happen all that often, but how many people can play as brilliantly a first set as Venus did against Lindsay at amelia island from all over the court. This wasn't just baseline winners, this was beautiful play at the net, great serving, amazing defense, she's my favorite because I love her game, I love her attitude on and off the court, and I think she's a great person. So it doesn't matter if she's a journeywoman or title contender or hasbeen or whatever title any of us can come up with, because I love her whether or not she produces the results I would like her to.


She's the only active player that embodies all the qualities i admire on and off the court...just wish she'd get her ass in gear.

ayanate
Apr 28th, 2005, 12:54 PM
What red dots?

skanky~skanketta
Apr 28th, 2005, 04:02 PM
that first opst in this thread is depressing.

TonyP
Apr 28th, 2005, 04:14 PM
I think it is premature to refer to her as a journeyman (woman) player. She is still ranked inside the top twenty and, by beating Serena, proved she can still play with the big girls. But her results have become spotty at best and while she may turn her career around as Capriati did, one wonders now if that will actually happen. And, we must note that Capriati's resurgence, while producing three slam singles titles, has not lasted long, nor produced many tournament titles overall.

Venus now seems to me to be in that category, although it has been longer since she won a really big title.

Paneru
Apr 28th, 2005, 04:22 PM
that first opst in this thread is depressing.

Only if your among those
that happen to agree.

Venus' results have been up and down but the
fact that you can see visible proof that she's working on
her game, top 11, competing with the top players at a
high level of play(loses in Miami and AI showed she's still
got it all and just needs to regain her pressure player
mentality) and beating a few, ect...I don't see a
cause for being depressed.

Things take time and happen when
they are supposed to.

ys
Apr 28th, 2005, 04:45 PM
Being a journey(wo)man or not is not a matter of rankings but rather a matter of dedication to success. Venus's dedication lately was questionable. I caught a bit of her second match at Fed Cup on tv. I can honestly say that I haven't seen a worse tennis on TV for at least several years, if ever. Players at my club play better. Very unprofessional. The question of the thread is definitely legitimate at this point.

Paneru
Apr 28th, 2005, 04:52 PM
Being a journey(wo)man or not is not a matter of rankings but rather a matter of dedication to success. Venus's dedication lately was questionable. I caught a bit of her second match at Fed Cup on tv. I can honestly say that I haven't seen a worse tennis on TV for at least several years, if ever. Players at my club play better. Very unprofessional. The question of the thread is definitely legitimate at this point.

Perspective?

That match was the 2nd match after Davenport had already clinched
the Tie for the USA. Yes, Venus wanted to win but as she said and
Zina, as well as MJF it was simply an opportunity to work on and
try different things.

The match ment nothing more than Venus continuing her winning streak in Fed Cup play and working on new things in her game that she and Zina had been discussing.

So, before you speak you might want to
get the entire jist of the situation before
putting your foot square in your mouth.

BTW, if your players play better than tell
me some of their names, maybe we've heard of them.

TakeThat
Apr 28th, 2005, 04:56 PM
I don't think anyone who'd been a star of Venus' magnitude can every become a "journywoman". I mean, if Andrei Shevchenko becomes a shadow of his current self in 5-6 years, people will say he is a football genious past his prime - not a journyman.

ys
Apr 28th, 2005, 05:01 PM
The match ment nothing more than Venus continuing her winning streak in Fed Cup play and working on new things in her game that she and Zina had been discussing.

What was she working at? :lol: She was mishitting every second shot and making error after error. I watched it for like 10 minutes and I haven't see a single rally lasting more than 4 shots and not ended in an easy error. It was just an indifferent , unprofessional performance. Period. I can't imagine Clijsters or Sharapova or Seles doing that. I can't imagine a player who really cares doing that.

UDiTY
Apr 28th, 2005, 05:05 PM
nope....

Paneru
Apr 28th, 2005, 05:10 PM
What was she working at? :lol: She was mishitting every second shot and making error after error. I watched it for like 10 minutes and I haven't see a single rally lasting more than 4 shots and not ended in an easy error. It was just an indifferent , unprofessional performance. Period. I can't imagine Clijsters or Sharapova or Seles doing that. I can't imagine a player who really cares doing that.

Oh, please!

Save the drama for
ya' mama!


It was a meaningless match as the USA already clinched the Tie
and Venus did what she needed to win so please stuff your
bs back up your ass where it came from.

Thank you.

GoDominique
Apr 28th, 2005, 05:12 PM
No. Journeywomen play week in week out. And they don't complain about their schedule.

Paneru
Apr 28th, 2005, 05:14 PM
No. Journeywomen play week in week out. And they don't complain about their schedule.

Hmmm....Then what is Venus then? ;)

She doesn't play week in and week out or
complain about her schedule.

GoDominique
Apr 28th, 2005, 05:15 PM
Hmmm....Then what is Venus then? ;)

She doesn't play week in and week out or
complain about her schedule.
She did complain after playing 10 matches in four weeks. Therefore she's not a journeywoman. :)

Paneru
Apr 28th, 2005, 05:19 PM
She did complain after playing 10 matches in four weeks. Therefore she's not a journeywoman. :)

Um, we already established that!
I asked, what is she then?

BTW,
I wasn't aware that one saying they need to
schedule themselves better in order to make
certain tournaments a higher priority was
considered complaining.


Learn something new every day.

CanadianBoy21
Apr 28th, 2005, 07:05 PM
Venus has all the shots, she is just not consistent.
Most players have all the shots sooner or later in a match though.
She is just not confident enough, and she has not reason to be confident.
The more she loses the less confident she gets.
If she has a good two weeks in Paris or Wimbledon and wins she'll come out again and dominate every event. It's kind of though aiming for the slams though, when you have trouble getting to the querters, and losing at that stage then.

Staticbeef
Apr 28th, 2005, 08:33 PM
Venus has all the shots, she is just not consistent.
Most players have all the shots sooner or later in a match though.
She is just not confident enough, and she has not reason to be confident.
The more she loses the less confident she gets.
If she has a good two weeks in Paris or Wimbledon and wins she'll come out again and dominate every event. It's kind of though aiming for the slams though, when you have trouble getting to the querters, and losing at that stage then.
I would love to know if she has been talking to anyone about her present situation, go back to the source Vee, talk to dad, then listen to his advise :bounce: Bump

Dana Marcy
Apr 28th, 2005, 10:13 PM
Yeah Venus has become a journeywoman. Hopefully she can win as many titles as Jolene Watanabe did in her day.