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View Full Version : New pope intervened against Kerry in US 2004 election campaign


Pureracket
Apr 20th, 2005, 04:05 AM
http://beta.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050419/pl_afp/vaticanpopeus



German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican (http://Vatican) theologian who was elected Pope Benedict XVI, intervened in the 2004 US election campaign ordering bishops to deny communion to abortion rights supporters including presidential candidate John Kerry (http://John%20Kerry)
In a June 2004 letter to US bishops enunciating principles of worthiness for communion recipients, Ratzinger specified that strong and open supporters of abortion should be denied the Catholic sacrament, for being guilty of a "grave sin." He specifically mentioned "the case of a Catholic politician consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws," a reference widely understood to mean Democratic candidate Kerry, a Catholic who has defended abortion rights.

The letter said a priest confronted with such a person seeking communion "must refuse to distribute it."

A footnote to the letter also condemned any Catholic who votes specifically for a candidate because the candidate holds a pro-abortion position. Such a voter "would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for holy communion," the letter read.

The letter, which was revealed in the Italian magazine L'Espresso last year, was reportedly only sent to US Catholic bishops, who discussed it in their convocation in Denver, Colorado, in mid-June.

Sharply divided on the issue, the bishops decided to leave the decision on granting or denying communion to the individual priest. Kerry later received communion several times from sympathetic priests.

Nevertheless, in the November election, a majority of Catholic voters, who traditionally supported Democratic Party candidates, shifted their votes to Republican and eventual winner George W. Bush.

alexusjonesfan
Apr 20th, 2005, 04:18 AM
See, Dubya really does have the big guy on his side.

Scotso
Apr 20th, 2005, 07:36 AM
This should get him excommunicated. The church isn't supposed to get involved in politics, is it?

It's natural for Nazis to support Dubya.

CooCooCachoo
Apr 20th, 2005, 08:07 AM
The Pope is dead. Hail the Pope.


:help:

Lord Nelson
Apr 20th, 2005, 01:51 PM
I'm so gald that some here are comparing Germans to Nazis. HAHA that will really tick of the Germans. I love Pope Benedict even more now. Thanks for letting me know about this Torres.

Infiniti2001
Apr 20th, 2005, 02:02 PM
More and more it's becoming apparent why the Catholic church or any other religion should not be allowed to hold any tax-exempy property in the country. They need to keep their noses out of politics :fiery:

griffin
Apr 20th, 2005, 02:47 PM
I remember that.

It would smell less if he'd at least been consistant and tried to tell priests not to give communion to politicians who supported the death penalty. Or war.

Hypocrite.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Apr 20th, 2005, 03:09 PM
I'm so gald that some here are comparing Germans to Nazis. HAHA that will really tick of the Germans. I love Pope Benedict even more now. Thanks for letting me know about this Torres.
The reason they are comparing him to Nazi's is because of his involvement with the Hitler youth movement.

You don't care anything about the Pope -- all you care about is that he is a thorn on the "other side." Issues don't matter to you.

Infiniti2001
Apr 20th, 2005, 03:14 PM
I remember that.

It would smell less if he'd at least been consistant and tried to tell priests not to give communion to politicians who supported the death penalty. Or war.

Hypocrite.

Exactly!! He turns a blind eye to these politicians of other faiths, because they're not bound by Catholic doctrine. According to this holy man RAT, people can disagree about how to punish crime and war can be justified when you are attacked . :rolleyes:

griffin
Apr 20th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Forget other faiths - the Catholic Church has been trying to squeeze politicians here in Massachusetts over their support (or lack of opposition to) same-sex marriage and abortion. Either by making noise about not allowing them to take communion, or urging their congregations not to vote for them. But they've remained silent about Catholic pols who've been trying to reinstate the death penalty here. If they want to enforce doctrine fine, but enforce all of it. What they pick and choose is really telling.

Infiniti2001
Apr 20th, 2005, 03:30 PM
I'm just fed up with all the hypocrisy. People really need to speak out :fiery:

Lord Nelson
Apr 20th, 2005, 07:03 PM
The reason they are comparing him to Nazi's is because of his involvement with the Hitler youth movement.

You don't care anything about the Pope -- all you care about is that he is a thorn on the "other side." Issues don't matter to you.
Oh I care deeply about issues. i'm an agnostic but i care about my Christian identity deeply and proudly consider myself a conservative even though I'm actually conservative on some issues and liberal on others.I also believe in the concept, 'eye for an eye' instead of the biblic 'turn the other cheek'. To me westerners have become a little soft since the student revolutions of the late 60s. i.e Vietnam war. The thing that i'm primarily outraged about is that nations like Britain allow extremism to flourish in their homeland such as in Finsbury Park. The primarily thing that annoys me is indeed religious extremism but not the one that WTA forums keep talking about. i'm talking about another religion but i'll let you guess which one I'm talking about.

Justeenium
Apr 20th, 2005, 07:14 PM
I remember that.

It would smell less if he'd at least been consistant and tried to tell priests not to give communion to politicians who supported the death penalty. Or war.

Hypocrite.


Why is the far right's anti-abortion pro death penalty stance hypocritical while the far left's pro-abortion anti death penalty stance not?

griffin
Apr 20th, 2005, 07:23 PM
Why is the far right's anti-abortion pro death penalty stance hypocritical while the far left's pro-abortion anti death penalty stance not?

I don't consider the far right hypocritical for being anti-abortion and pro-death penalty. (I consider them a lot of things, and hypocritical on a lot of things, but I do understand that particular split even if I disagree)

I consider the Roman Catholic Church hypocrites because they justify meddling with elections by claiming they are simply trying to enforce proper church doctrine when urging priests to deny communion to, and urge parishioners not to vote for Catholic pols who support (or do not oppose) marriage for same-sex couples and/or abortion, yet they make no similar efforts regarding the Church's position on the death penalty (or war, or...). They are clearly picking and chosing which Church doctrines matter, while denying that anyone else should be able to do the same. They say we cannot ignore the Church's teachings, yet they do it themselves.

Shuji Shuriken
Apr 20th, 2005, 08:36 PM
Gosh Griff...i hate it when you delete my posts :kiss:. You're still my number one queen bitch though :hearts: :worship:. Can I ask a question though? Was it because I said dumb-fuck :confused:?

Pengwin
Apr 20th, 2005, 08:57 PM
:eek: You deleted my post too :eek:

Are we not allowed to swear?

Pureracket
Apr 20th, 2005, 08:57 PM
Why is the far right's anti-abortion pro death penalty stance hypocritical while the far left's pro-abortion anti death penalty stance not?Is the far left pro-abortion or pro-choice?

harloo
Apr 20th, 2005, 09:30 PM
IMO Kerry should not be allowed to take communion, just as Bush should not be allowed with his fake christianity. Coming up in a penecostal church we were taught that communion was sacred, and that you have to really be sure about your relationship with god. I find that most people now take communion just because they feel it's their right when they are not even living a christian life.

"Topaz"
Apr 20th, 2005, 10:07 PM
Anyway, this Pope seems to have a thing for politics. I heard he stood against the inclusion of Turkey into the European Community, on the basis that Turkey has non-christian traditions. He's alleged to have further said that Turkey should rather join an Arabian league that would include Persians and Kurds, and leave Europeans alone.

There is a little touch of racism and/or nationalism in there, if you ask me. Now, what are his true feelings towards Latin America, Africa, South & East Asia, where non-christian traditions are deeply rooted?

Lord Nelson
Apr 20th, 2005, 10:15 PM
Anyway, this Pope seems to have a thing for politics. I heard he stood against the inclusion of Turkey into the European Community, on the basis that Turkey has non-christian traditions. He's alleged to have further said that Turkey should rather join an Arabian league that would include Persians and Kurds, and leave Europeans alone.

There is a little touch of racism and/or nationalism in there, if you ask me. Now, what are his true feelings towards Latin America, Africa, South & East Asia, where non-christian traditions are deeply rooted?
Well in case of Turkey, the non-Christian populations as well as the Kurds are poorly treated. If Turkey wants symphaty from the Church they should well treat their minorities. Having a 99.9% Muslim population just seems to show that the non-Muslim populations are not welcome in Turkey. I would like Turkey to join the EU but onyl if minorities are respected.

mboyle
Apr 20th, 2005, 10:20 PM
This should get him excommunicated. The church isn't supposed to get involved in politics, is it?

It's natural for Nazis to support Dubya.

How dare you! I don't care what your politics are, but, by calling any person who disagrees with you a Nazi, you insult and spit on the unmarked graves of 12 million innocent Jews, homosexuals, mentally challenged persons, handicapped, Jehova's Witnesses, Gypsies, communists and many others who died at the alter of extremist ideology. How many people has the Catholic church killed lately? You know, dehumanization of your politically opposed, as you yourself are doing, is the first step towards genocide. Please be more sensitive.

Lord Nelson
Apr 20th, 2005, 10:22 PM
MelissaTorres fan does not seem to like Germans. What country is he from?

mboyle
Apr 20th, 2005, 10:29 PM
Is the far left pro-abortion or pro-choice?

I am pro choice, but anti baby slaughtering. If a woman is raped, she should be allowed to kill any resulting child (I wouldn't consider it moral, but I do believe in personal freedom as the law, and rape victims need to be better treated, and they clearly don't have a say in the act.) Also, if having the baby will endanger the mother's live (very rare these days,) then killing the child is an act of self defense. Otherwise, you make a choice. Do I have sex or not? By choosing yes, even if you use protection and birth control and whatever else, you accept that you might create a human life. If you aren't ready to raise a child, don't have sex. Some people claim that killing a developing human with apparent birth defects is best for the child. Wrong. According to leading scientists, due to the exponential rate of scientific progress, virtually every defect and disorder, from downsyndrome to blindness and whatever else, will be curable within 20 to 30 years (most within 10.) Besides, should we just go around murdering retarted people? A lot of them lead happy lives.

PS: don't get on me for calling it like it is. By the time you know you are pregnant, the baby has a beating heart and a spinal cord, and can feel pain (as demonstrated by kicking/moving when tapped.) Therefore, it is pro-abortion politely, and pro-baby slaughter impolitely, but pro-choice represents absolutely nothing (pro-life is a slightly better term, but anti-abortion or anti baby slaughter is really better.)

mboyle
Apr 20th, 2005, 10:31 PM
MelissaTorres fan does not seem to like Germans. What country is he from?

I don't think he/she has anything against Germans. I just think he/she is very closed minded and unopen to other people's ideas and opinions (typical of both sides, really, but at least the right doesn't call itself open minded:o .)

Pureracket
Apr 20th, 2005, 10:56 PM
I am pro choice, but anti baby slaughtering. If a woman is raped, she should be allowed to kill any resulting child (I wouldn't consider it moral, but I do believe in personal freedom as the law, and rape victims need to be better treated, and they clearly don't have a say in the act.) Also, if having the baby will endanger the mother's live (very rare these days,) then killing the child is an act of self defense. Otherwise, you make a choice. Do I have sex or not? By choosing yes, even if you use protection and birth control and whatever else, you accept that you might create a human life. If you aren't ready to raise a child, don't have sex. Some people claim that killing a developing human with apparent birth defects is best for the child. Wrong. According to leading scientists, due to the exponential rate of scientific progress, virtually every defect and disorder, from downsyndrome to blindness and whatever else, will be curable within 20 to 30 years (most within 10.) Besides, should we just go around murdering retarted people? A lot of them lead happy lives.

PS: don't get on me for calling it like it is. By the time you know you are pregnant, the baby has a beating heart and a spinal cord, and can feel pain (as demonstrated by kicking/moving when tapped.) Therefore, it is pro-abortion politely, and pro-baby slaughter impolitely, but pro-choice represents absolutely nothing (pro-life is a slightly better term, but anti-abortion or anti baby slaughter is really better.)Your first paragraph is too idealistic, judgemental, and shortsighted. If anti-abortionists respect life so much, then it shouldn't matter how that life was conceived. Rape, molestation, incest, immaculate conception - it's still a life. Even if the mother's life is in danger, the abortion that would be performed is still a life isn't it?

It's soooo easy to use the "don't have sex" response when you're arguing from a position where you have full control of your body and your own physical image. It's not like that in the real world with all women. There are millions who don't have that same kind of power in the bedroom.

If the Pope is an anti-abortionist, I think he should support all life - even the life that is created in a "nasty" way.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Apr 20th, 2005, 11:02 PM
How can you "kill" something if it's not viable from the womb?

Szymanowski
Apr 20th, 2005, 11:53 PM
I don't consider the far right hypocritical for being anti-abortion and pro-death penalty. (I consider them a lot of things, and hypocritical on a lot of things, but I do understand that particular split even if I disagree)

I consider the Roman Catholic Church hypocrites because they justify meddling with elections by claiming they are simply trying to enforce proper church doctrine when urging priests to deny communion to, and urge parishioners not to vote for Catholic pols who support (or do not oppose) marriage for same-sex couples and/or abortion, yet they make no similar efforts regarding the Church's position on the death penalty (or war, or...). They are clearly picking and chosing which Church doctrines matter, while denying that anyone else should be able to do the same. They say we cannot ignore the Church's teachings, yet they do it themselves.
I'm a Catholic myself, but I hate to admit, I think you're dead right here:sad:

Szymanowski
Apr 20th, 2005, 11:55 PM
How can you "kill" something if it's not viable from the womb?
Being in a womb does not make you any less alive! the brain cells all work! the baby in there can hear, think, kick, do all kinds of thing. I will try + find you some scientific evidence on this, because I think abortion's pretty wrong :sad:

Scotso
Apr 21st, 2005, 05:21 AM
I find it hilarious that people think I am insulting ALL Germans or calling people who disagree with me a Nazi.

Learn to read, for God's sake. Our new pope was a NAZI. That is what I was referring to when I meantioned NAZIS. If that is too complicated for your small minds to comprehend, then don't bother posting, k?

Scotso
Apr 21st, 2005, 05:22 AM
MelissaTorres fan does not seem to like Germans. What country is he from?

Yeah because I said that :retard:

Scotso
Apr 21st, 2005, 05:22 AM
How dare you! I don't care what your politics are, but, by calling any person who disagrees with you a Nazi, you insult and spit on the unmarked graves of 12 million innocent Jews, homosexuals, mentally challenged persons, handicapped, Jehova's Witnesses, Gypsies, communists and many others who died at the alter of extremist ideology. How many people has the Catholic church killed lately? You know, dehumanization of your politically opposed, as you yourself are doing, is the first step towards genocide. Please be more sensitive.

:retard:

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Apr 21st, 2005, 01:59 PM
MelissaTorresFan and I have had mannnnnnnnnnnny disagreements in the past, but I was able to understand what his points were and some of you are totally misinterpreting the issue.

moby
Apr 21st, 2005, 02:15 PM
The world is so messed up.

Justeenium
Apr 21st, 2005, 04:13 PM
This should get him excommunicated. The church isn't supposed to get involved in politics, is it?

It's natural for Nazis to support Dubya.

Why don't you try reading for a change rather than be a close minded ignorant lefty?

The racists think Bush--and Repubs in general-- are Zionist puppets, they probably hate him just as much as the bleeding heart leftys

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=183091&page=1

Justeenium
Apr 21st, 2005, 04:14 PM
I. Our new pope was a NAZI. ?

:rolleyes:

it's like talking to a brick wall

Justeenium
Apr 21st, 2005, 04:17 PM
How dare you! I don't care what your politics are, but, by calling any person who disagrees with you a Nazi, you insult and spit on the unmarked graves of 12 million innocent Jews, homosexuals, mentally challenged persons, handicapped, Jehova's Witnesses, Gypsies, communists and many others who died at the alter of extremist ideology. How many people has the Catholic church killed lately? You know, dehumanization of your politically opposed, as you yourself are doing, is the first step towards genocide. Please be more sensitive.

you are exaggerating numbers already proven to be false

griffin
Apr 21st, 2005, 07:52 PM
you are exaggerating numbers already proven to be false

You're right. The Nazi's just invited people to a bbq - the Jews, queers, gypsies, etc., just got clumsy and fell in those ovens by accident. :wavey:

Lord Nelson
Apr 21st, 2005, 08:03 PM
Actually it was 6 million Jews and a few more million here and there. But I don't shed tears for the communists who were killed. Stalin killed far more than Hitler in his gulags where instead of gas chambers prisoners were literally starved to death. German prisoners after the war were poorly treated. I believe 50'000 Germans died after the war. Lets not forget modern Communist regimes like N. Korea where Mr. Kim tortures and kills millions. Man I despise the Communists (except for the Chinese who are a role model for us Indians) as much as I do the Nazis. Sorry Warrior but I'm glad that the Soviet Union has ceased to exist.

Pengwin
Apr 21st, 2005, 08:22 PM
Actually it was 6 million Jews and a few more million here and there. But I don't shed tears for the communists who were killed. Stalin killed far more than Hitler in his gulags where instead of gas chambers prisoners were literally starved to death. German prisoners after the war were poorly treated. I believe 50'000 Germans died after the war. Lets not forget modern Communist regimes like N. Korea where Mr. Kim tortures and kills millions. Man I despise the Communists (except for the Chinese who are a role model for us Indians) as much as I do the Nazis. Sorry Warrior but I'm glad that the Soviet Union has ceased to exist.

Don't forget the pre-Deng communists :fiery:

They actually locked people up for being rich or remotely educated. Mao Zedong has so many people's blood (including my family's) on his hands it's painful to calculate. If it wasn't for Deng...I don't even want to consider it.

Oh yeah, great job America for liberalising China when 20 million people were dying of starvation under Mao.

Oh yeah, great job America for helping protect China when it was being taken the crap over by Japan.

The only reason Chinese people celebrate Mao is because he fought against the Japanese (who tested Chemical and Biological weapons on Chinese civilians...).

Lord Nelson
Apr 21st, 2005, 10:57 PM
what does the U.S. have to do with China during the Mao years? I don't know if you were aware but the U.S. had an Isolationalist policy until Japan bombarded Pearl Harbor. As for Cultural Revolution and so on, foreign journalists were not allowed in China during those times. Even if U.S. had know about atrocities committed during those times what do you want the U.S. to do, invade China. Mcarthur almost did that during korean war but he wanted to use nukes against China. Estimate yourself lucky that Truman got rid of him.