PDA

View Full Version : Player discussion: Jennifer Capriati


king416
Apr 19th, 2005, 08:37 PM
With Jen currently sidelined, its interesting to think about if she could stage another comeback, does she have the weapons to win another grand slam or is she too mentally fragile (all the 3rd set tiebreak losses have to take their toll). There's no denying that Jen's game has changed a lot since the loss to Justine in the US Open 2003 semi. She used to be aggressive and go for her shots, but now she is basically a defence player which works well to get her to the later stages of tourneys but is it enough to win? She has a fantastic forehand, and her backhand is quite underrated, she can also use a fantastic slice backhand. She's even good at the net, but she so rarely takes advantage of this because she does not attack and then follow it up. Her serve is very changeable, its never fantastic but it can be very solid and she throw in some aces and unreturnables, but it can also be quite slow and inconsistent (lots of DF's). Perhaps her main weakness is now her mentality, she used to be quite mentally strong (saving 4 mp's in a grand slam final, including a winner on the line is amazing) but now she doesn't seem to believe in her shots, or her ability to close out a match. It seems people have mixed views on how good she actually is, i think she could definately challenge for another slam (perhaps the french is her best chance) but she would have to come back with a good attitude and really believe in herself. What does everyone reckon?

Brooks.
Apr 19th, 2005, 08:39 PM
She's got the game.....its the head thats the problem (kinda like venus right now).....three big opportunities have been wasted at the slams recently for jen....but the girl has had some impressive slam finals so there is always hope... i hope she gets that us open title....she deserves it!

thelittlestelf
Apr 19th, 2005, 08:48 PM
She should have won the French last year... I couldn't believe it when she lost to Myskina!

jimbo mack
Apr 19th, 2005, 08:50 PM
she has the game no question

its just a shame that age isnt on her side :sad:

i think next year (she should have recovered and played some matches by then) will give us an idea of what's left in her

MarkyMark
Apr 19th, 2005, 09:09 PM
i must agree with you 100% that jen basically used to go for her shots and now is simply all defense. She is all defense because she is scared to just go all out and hit winners from one end of the court to the other like she used to. I was most impressed with her shot making during her match against martina hingis French Open semi 2001 and mauresmo at new haven 2002. although she did have some impressive wins in 2004 she still could not lift a trophy above her head and too be honest although I am won of her biggest fans, with the current crop of players that can win and have won a grandslam, jen's chances may be over at this stage.

it may be difficult for jen to get a favourable draw at the us open being unseeded when she returns. unless the powers that be are fair for once and give her special seeding(probably #10)

UDiTY
Apr 19th, 2005, 09:20 PM
She really has been a case of not bringing it every week IMO. She plays well at the slams...but she's barely won anything besides her slams and her gold medal.

I am kinda skeptical about her comeback as well, I just don't feel like she'll come back after being gone for 7-8 months. She's like 29 now right!? Maybe she will comeback and make one last hurrah at the USO.

serenafan08
Apr 19th, 2005, 09:36 PM
I think that it is all mental with Jennifer. She used to have a preemptive mentality; she was going to be the one to take the first strike in a rally. That's why she won three out of five Slams in '01-'02. Now, she's totally on defense the whole time. Because the game is so incredibly deep now, no one can afford to be on defense because you're going to get crushed. Jennifer needs to step up and take the first big shot in a rally, otherwise she's going to continue her slide.

venus_rulez
Apr 19th, 2005, 10:13 PM
Jennifer definitely has the game to get back to the top 10, but I feel like the problem for her has been that since her comeback in 2001, is that her biggest weapons are better utilized by other players. For instance Jennifer is speedy around the court, but the Williams Sisters are faster. Jennifer can hit very consistently from the back of the court, but the Belgians are even more consistent than she is. Jennifer can hit a pretty hard ball, but the Sisters and Davenport can still overpower her. I think she needs to bring in new aspects to her game, and not rely so much on what she has been lately. I feel like in 2001, she got a little lucky. Not saying she doesn't have the game, I think she needs a little help. And with so many talented up and comers, and the old timers who already know her game, I think she needs a little help to get to that next level.

yukon145
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:46 PM
yes in winning 3 slams, Jenn had all luck on her side, thats cleary the only reason she won. :rolleyes:

thelittlestelf
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:56 PM
Jennifer definitely has the game to get back to the top 10, but I feel like the problem for her has been that since her comeback in 2001, is that her biggest weapons are better utilized by other players. For instance Jennifer is speedy around the court, but the Williams Sisters are faster. Jennifer can hit very consistently from the back of the court, but the Belgians are even more consistent than she is. Jennifer can hit a pretty hard ball, but the Sisters and Davenport can still overpower her. I think she needs to bring in new aspects to her game, and not rely so much on what she has been lately. I feel like in 2001, she got a little lucky. Not saying she doesn't have the game, I think she needs a little help. And with so many talented up and comers, and the old timers who already know her game, I think she needs a little help to get to that next level.I don't really know if I agree with that. I think the reason why Jen has had so much success is because she really had the right mix of everything in her game. Very fast around the court, hits an extremely clean and hard ball, has a solid serve, and balances it off with being consistent.

I miss Jen. I miss her forehand :(.

bigshow21
Apr 20th, 2005, 03:06 AM
I agree that her game in the past year or so has been mostly defense oriented. I still believe that she has the potential of winning grand slams and other tournaments for a few more years. I am not just saying that because I am a fan, but because it is what Jen wants. She is very determined and passionate about the game of tennis. She isn't going to give up because an injury forced her to. She is a fighter and will comeback just like she did in 2001!! Mark my words, she will be back and in winning form once again!!!

venus_rulez
Apr 20th, 2005, 03:37 AM
yes in winning 3 slams, Jenn had all luck on her side, thats cleary the only reason she won. :rolleyes:



Read what I wrote again, that's not what I said at all, but if you look at her performance in 2001 against 2002 you see a sharp drop off. The only top players she consistently beat in that range were Serena and Hingis. Everybody was beating Hingis and by the end of 01 Serena had a figured out and then managed to run 8 straight matches by her. Capriati hasn't beaten Davenport since, beating her at the Aussie Open, she hasn't beaten Mauresmo since the 02 event in Rome, in 6 tries (the retirement doesn't count), she hasn't beaten Clijsters since the 02 Australian, in 3 tries, she's never beaten Venus, and she's beaten Henin Hardenne once in the last six tries. Like i said before she has the game to challenge the top players. If she didn't have the game she would have never won the slams, but the fact is even in the year she played her best tennis she won three events. And the last event she won was because two players who have owned her wuit with injury. She does need some help with her CURRENT game to beat the top players. Hence me saying she should try adding a couple of new techniques to her game to get back to that level

kabuki
Apr 20th, 2005, 03:44 AM
Don't count Jen out.

But, she will need to seriously amp up the offence if she wants back in the top 10.

My major fear is that the shoulder is going to inhibit what is already her worst shot...the serve.

Malin
Apr 20th, 2005, 05:05 AM
Read what I wrote again, that's not what I said at all, but if you look at her performance in 2001 against 2002 you see a sharp drop off. The only top players she consistently beat in that range were Serena and Hingis. Everybody was beating Hingis and by the end of 01 Serena had a figured out and then managed to run 8 straight matches by her. Capriati hasn't beaten Davenport since, beating her at the Aussie Open, she hasn't beaten Mauresmo since the 02 event in Rome, in 6 tries (the retirement doesn't count), she hasn't beaten Clijsters since the 02 Australian, in 3 tries, she's never beaten Venus, and she's beaten Henin Hardenne once in the last six tries. Like i said before she has the game to challenge the top players. If she didn't have the game she would have never won the slams, but the fact is even in the year she played her best tennis she won three events. And the last event she won was because two players who have owned her wuit with injury. She does need some help with her CURRENT game to beat the top players. Hence me saying she should try adding a couple of new techniques to her game to get back to that level

Well she beat Serena three times last year, two of those were in slams and she beat Lindsay to win New Haven in 2003.

LUIS9
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:22 AM
She should have won the French last year... I couldn't believe it when she lost to Myskina!

Disappointing to say the least really, to a certain extent pathetic. I mean after beating Serena back to back on clay and having her nice run, Capriati has a very solid reputation on clay I dont understand why she allowed that one to be swept away. I didnt watch the actual match but I can bet she was very flat and uncommitting to playing her agressive game, or more likely overdid it and hence the mega errors giving up the match?

ceiling_fan
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:30 AM
i don't really follow her, so i'm wondering how she hasn't lost (m)any points and she is still in the top 20 :confused:

sartrista7
Apr 20th, 2005, 08:15 AM
i don't really follow her, so i'm wondering how she hasn't lost (m)any points and she is still in the top 20 :confused:

Two Slam semis with inflated bonus points from Serena's special ranking = inflated ranking ;)

I agree with venus_rulez most of all here. I don't think she was 'lucky' to win her Slams, but I felt that her dominance was way overrated even at the time. She has never dominated the tour like a Hingis, Venus, Serena or Justine, and that IS due to limitations in her game. The serve lets her down, she's a poor strategist (even at the best of times she didn't think much on court, and now she's embarked on this retarded defense-orientated gameplan), and while solid, her groundstrokes weren't the most powerful in 2001 and certainly aren't any more.

I think she's in a situation comparable to Venus - the rest of the tour has caught up to her. She has to beat more people than Serena and Hingis now. Even if she does go back to a more aggressive style, I don't think she has what it takes. Most of the current top 10, and the Belgians, are perfectly capable of dealing out a sound thrashing to her.

Oh, and no player who's in a title drought (where the title didn't come with retirements in the last two rounds) stretching back to the Australian Open 2002 - over three years since she last won a tournament properly! - should be considered a Slam contender.

TeamUSA#1
Apr 20th, 2005, 02:08 PM
How you could not consider a 3 slam winner and a consistent SF/QF slam performer for the past 4 years not a slam contender is beyond me :confused: :rolleyes:

I think Jen's biggest problems the last 2 1/2 years have been injury. She started 2003 coming off eye surgery (missing 2 months) and had to play catch up the rest of the year and then just when she was getting her groove (Bank of the West Finals vs. Clijsters-- she is up a set and a break and would have won that match) her shoulder gets injured. Then she starts 2004 sidelined due to a near career-ending back injury and plays catch up all year again. Still in the 3 slams she plays she reaches 2 SFs and 1 QF, and reaches the QF or better of every event she plays, except for 3 events when coming back from injury. Then her shoulder flairs up again and she has surgery - no play yet in 2005.

I dont think age is an issue - Jen basically did not play from 1993-1996 and then lost a lot of time in 1997-1998 due to injury. So, even though she is just 29, I think in "tennis" years, she is more like 25. I think she could easily play for a good 3 or 4 more years at a top level. She hasnt lost any speed around the court (usually the thing to go as you get older) and her court coverage is in the top 5 of the world.

Her game is there. Her serve has improved tremendously in the last year and 1/2, and is sooo much better than it was in 2001-2002 when she was winning slams. She throws in serves in the 115-119 range, and her DFs are nearly non-existent these days, and her 2nd serve is much better. Her groundstrokes are still some of the best on the tour. And with her long time shoulder problems fixed, I wouldnt be suprized if her serve gets even better. She has also incorporated more defense in her game last year, and she does need to find the right balance now between offense and defense in her game. It is funny though, because critics used to complain that she was too much offensive and all power and no defense and change up plays, and now that she has really developed that to a high level, they complain about that :confused: She will need to venture more to the net like she did in 2001-2002 to win more slams.

I think she'll struggle a bit when she returns this year, trying to find her match rythem for a couple of events, but then will pick it up again. And she most likely will be back by Wimbly, or the American Hard Court season. I bet she also plays a full fall schedule since she missed the 1st half of the year. By next year, barring any further injury, she should have some good shots at winning another slam, particularly at the AO, FO, and USO.

king416
Apr 20th, 2005, 02:17 PM
TeamUsa i think your post is a bit biased. I mean fair enough Jen has had some injuries but she has had major opportunities that she has lost due to mentality not physicality. She was unlucky against Henin Hardenne in 2003, a match she could have won but there is no excusing her performance against Myskina at the FO (it was hers for the taking) or Dementieva at the US ( way too defensive). Also her serve has really not improved much, i was watching clips of Jen from 2001-2002 and i think her serve has got worse, particularly the second. Her first serve is barely a weapon now and her second is weak and inconsistent. However, her groundies are fantastic and she has excellent touch at the net, not to mention she is one of the fastest women on tour, she could definately still challenge the top players.

TeamUSA#1
Apr 20th, 2005, 02:34 PM
TeamUsa i think your post is a bit biased. I mean fair enough Jen has had some injuries but she has had major opportunities that she has lost due to mentality not physicality. She was unlucky against Henin Hardenne in 2003, a match she could have won but there is no excusing her performance against Myskina at the FO (it was hers for the taking) or Dementieva at the US ( way too defensive). Also her serve has really not improved much, i was watching clips of Jen from 2001-2002 and i think her serve has got worse, particularly the second. Her first serve is barely a weapon now and her second is weak and inconsistent. However, her groundies are fantastic and she has excellent touch at the net, not to mention she is one of the fastest women on tour, she could definately still challenge the top players.


I respect that everyone is entitled to their own perception, however I really disagree. I think Jen lost to Myskina because of her conditioning not her mental strength. She even said that up through Wimbly, she was only at 70% of where she should be physically. She played a flat match against Myskina because she had nothing left in the tank. Her match against Dementieva she should have won, but again when you have not consitent playing time because of injury (remember she didnt play from Wimbly up until 2 weeks before the USO because of a thigh and shoulder injury) you dont have "it" to win the big matches. That is what I meant about injuries having taken their toll. She hasnt had a season (like in 2001-2002) where she had no injuries the last 2 years.

How you think her serve is worse now then it was in 2001 is beyond me :confused: In 2001-2002, it was not uncommon for Jen to DF 10 times in a match. And her fastest serve speeds were about 110-111. Today, she hardly ever DFs, she can crank up her serve in 115-119 range, and she places the ball around the box much better. Plus, her avg. serve speed on her second serve is much better than 2001

magassi
Apr 20th, 2005, 02:44 PM
Jenn's game (like Agassi's) is all about fitness (and that makes her a smarter player because her shots become automatic), but like many have said here this aspect of her game slipped after she won OZ02. Right after that courageous win (with an unreliable serve), Jenn should have hired a serving coach. But she didn't and her game proceeded to decline to a defensive one. I think Jenn changed her game to compete with the likes of Serena and Venus, where a defensive game and hitting down the middle can be effective; however, she began playing that way against all top players (i.e., Davenport: it makes no sense hitting down the middle to a player whose weakness is movment). With lack of fitness, comes lack of confidence and nagging injuries. Here's hoping she can come back to at least win one more slam, but if she doesn't come back more fit (as fit as she was in 2001 and early 2002), then i think she should retire.

DevilishAttitude
Apr 20th, 2005, 04:20 PM
Never ever rule out Jen. :)

I still think she can win a slam. She has gotten over the mental side against Serena and I think she if she plays well can beat anyone in a draw.

Hopefully she'll be more powerful and consisent than last year where it was a little yo-yo. And beat players in a GS semi. If she played well against Myskina she would have won and it would have been a 99% guarantee win after Dementieva's performance. The US loss was devastating. She should have won and well got nervous at the end.

Jen :hearts: just come back anyway :worship:

LeRoy.
Apr 20th, 2005, 04:37 PM
I thought she was going to win RG and USO last year and i thought she'd win USO '03 too :sad:

Elldee
Apr 20th, 2005, 04:46 PM
Jen and Lindsay broke my heart at the '04 US Open, Dementieva was flagging with injury and fatigue and yet Jenny couldn't pull it out... losing to Dementieva [who she'd never lost to?] is very different to losing to Justine whethere she's higher ranked or not. It seemed a wasted opportunity after beating Serena in the quarters... same for the French. Jennifer should have won the French.

SJW
Apr 20th, 2005, 04:52 PM
Jen is like Lindsay...every time you think they've wasted an opportunity to win a slam, they get it again, and unfortunatey to say, the chance goes begging once more. i have to say that Lindsay IMO is the better player by far though as she still has the game to dominate from the back.

more contenders keep emerging and with a lucky draw she could do something. but i dont see her coming through a Henin, Clijsters, Serena, Sharapova draw to be honest. if she could prove me wrong, great, but its so hard at the best of times, never mind about when you've had a shoulder injury.

sartrista7
Apr 20th, 2005, 05:47 PM
How you could not consider a 3 slam winner and a consistent SF/QF slam performer for the past 4 years not a slam contender is beyond me :confused: :rolleyes:

Because she won her 3 Slams over 3 years ago, an eternity in tennis, and because SF/QF does not = W. And because she doesn't win titles ANYWHERE else either! If anyone else had only managed to win ONE title since January 2002, and that because their opponents in the semi AND final retired injured, we wouldn't be talking about them as Slam contenders either. Furthermore, what top players does she actually beat regularly these days apart from Serena?

I'm not sure why everyone thinks she 'should' have won either RG or the US Open, to be honest. I expected Myskina and Dementieva to beat her both times.

Malin
Apr 20th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Because she won her 3 Slams over 3 years ago, an eternity in tennis, and because SF/QF does not = W. And because she doesn't win titles ANYWHERE else either! If anyone else had only managed to win ONE title since January 2002, and that because their opponents in the semi AND final retired injured, we wouldn't be talking about them as Slam contenders either. Furthermore, what top players does she actually beat regularly these days apart from Serena?

I'm not sure why everyone thinks she 'should' have won either RG or the US Open, to be honest. I expected Myskina and Dementieva to beat her both times.

Because Jen is a much better player than those two. She has been in the situation more and has beaten them numerous times. Jen will go down in history as one of the best ever, they will be forgotten. Jen two great chances to add to her amazing career. She may not win all her matches against the top players but every match is a toss up and extremely close. All it takes is for one or two good wins to happen in a slam and she'll be lifting the throphy again.

sartrista7
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:00 PM
Because Jen is a much better player than those two. She has been in the situation more and has beaten them numerous times. Jen will go down in history as one of the best ever, they will be forgotten. Jen two great chances to add to her amazing career. She may not win all her matches against the top players but every match is a toss up and extremely close. All it takes is for one or two good wins to happen in a slam and she'll be lifting the throphy again.

She WAS much better than them in 2001. In 2004, she certainly was not. They caught up :)

If she was so much better... where are her Slam titles, or even finals, in the past two years?

And even though she's "one of the best ever" and Myskina "will be forgotten" ( :retard: ), Capriati's managed to accrue only five more titles than Myskina... and she's six years older :tape:

SJW
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:07 PM
I'm not sure why everyone thinks she 'should' have won either RG or the US Open, to be honest. I expected Myskina and Dementieva to beat her both times.

so did i tbh. beating Serena does not always bode well for Capriati. think shes only gone on to win the title once. :angel:

but in all seriousness...i expected an all Russian final definitely at the french given the semi lineups...

Kart
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:21 PM
I don't think you need to be a slam finalist to be a contender.

I'm not a big fan of Capriati, in fact I'm not a fan at all :tape: but I was stunned to see her beat Serena twice last year in major competition. She plays the big matches well - or at least she can sometimes.

There's no argument from me that she should have won her slam semis but she could have, which would have been only one match away.

pigam
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:27 PM
I actually agree that I think Capriati is quite good @ the net :eek:
Her groundies are one of the best, she just sometimes misses that extra little something, I don't really know how to define it tho :unsure:

If she comes back fully fit, she will still be top 10.

SJW
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:32 PM
If she comes back fully fit, she will still be top 10.

just out of interest, who do you think would be the other 9?

creep
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:46 PM
This is my own view on Jennifer Capriati. I’m not going to go into the in and outs of what well happen when she makes a return to the tour, hopefully soon.:) But I will remark on what I think of her as a tennis fan. Personally I have always liked her since she burst on the tennis scene as an endearing cute 13 year old, and remarkably stormed her way through the first big tournaments she played. Yeah Jennifer as suffered much publicised growing pains, only to completely transform herself from near disaster by remarkably taking her first three major titles in a short period of time a years later. She has still proven vulnerable to the occasional mental collapse when trying to close out a important match victory (then again what top class player hasn‘t during her career) but I have always considered Jennifer a contender to capture any major tournament she plays in. Her story of personal salvation after hitting rock bottom remains inspirational, especially for those who have struggled with living up to expectations and potential. I think she’s has been, and remains one of the most exciting tennis players of the past decades. What a career Jennifer could have had , only for personal teen angst we’ll never know, but as the lady herself has said "Dreams do come true if you keep believing in yourself. Anything is possible.":)

pigam
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:53 PM
just out of interest, who do you think would be the other 9?
@ random (sic)
Serena - Venus- Justine - Kim - Elena - Maria - (Jennifer) - Linzi - Amélie - Anastacia

:eek: WOW! :drool:

Jenny.C.Fan
Apr 20th, 2005, 07:03 PM
I think jen's serve has improved a lot, she served very well at the us open last year. Ok Jen's never won that many titles but she never plays the smaller tournaments well, she always plays well in the grand slams and consistently reaches the q/f's and s/f's of the slams. Shes a big match player and has participated in some of the most memorable matches in history. Ok she should have accomplished more than she has in her career but theres no doubt she'll be remembered as one of the best ever simply because of all she has been through and because of her comeback and because she is a great inspiration to many people. I think shes got another slam in her and hopefully it'll be that us open.

Malin
Apr 20th, 2005, 10:49 PM
She WAS much better than them in 2001. In 2004, she certainly was not. They caught up :)

If she was so much better... where are her Slam titles, or even finals, in the past two years?

And even though she's "one of the best ever" and Myskina "will be forgotten" ( :retard: ), Capriati's managed to accrue only five more titles than Myskina... and she's six years older :tape:

Well 2 of those titles are other grandslams, and 1 is an gold medal, she has also been ranked #1 in the world. :wavey: