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View Full Version : Why Can't a Slam Winner Be Overestimated?


kabuki
Apr 19th, 2005, 03:15 PM
Had to start a separate thread because I think it is a separate question. And not quite so troll-esque. :)

IMHO any player can be overestimated (estimated too highly/held in too high esteem)

Anyone from a club hack to the best in the world can be though too highly of IMHO.

Am I in the minority thinking this? :confused:

Knizzle
Apr 19th, 2005, 03:23 PM
I agree, I think Maria for instance gets revered like she's a dominant player, when she's really not domintating the tour.

griffin
Apr 19th, 2005, 03:26 PM
It's certainly harder to make the case if someone's proven themselves by winning a slam, but anyone can be overestimated, and not just by the lunatic fringe, either.

kabuki
Apr 19th, 2005, 03:27 PM
I agree, I think Maria for instance gets revered like she's a dominant player, when she's really not domintating the tour.

:wavey:

While I respect your opinion, rather than make this about specific players, I'm more curious about why people would think that successful folks can't be overestimated? :confused:

Knizzle
Apr 19th, 2005, 03:32 PM
:wavey:

While I respect your opinion, rather than make this about specific players, I'm more curious about why people would think that successful folks can't be overestimated? :confused:

I'm not making it about Maria, but it'd be silly not to give an example of my opinion. Obviously you have some players in mind too. ;)

I speak my mind and if someone wants to debate it, then we can talk.

kabuki
Apr 19th, 2005, 03:36 PM
I'm not making it about Maria, but it'd be silly not to give an example of my opinion. Obviously you have some players in mind too. ;)

I speak my mind and if someone wants to debate it, then we can talk.

:yeah:

I just know how sensitive and testy EVERYONE is on this board.

I have a specific question that I would like to discuss and would prefer this not to devolve into a typical donnybrook about the more controversial members of the WTA. :lol:

andrewbroad
Apr 21st, 2005, 01:12 AM
I agree, I think Maria for instance gets revered like she's a dominant player, when she's really not domintating the tour.

Yet. She's only just eighteen!

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sizzlingsharapova/)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeldani/)

mboyle
Apr 21st, 2005, 02:47 AM
I agree, I think Maria for instance gets revered like she's a dominant player, when she's really not domintating the tour.

At least she doesn't lose to Silvia Farina-Elia, Jelena Jankovic or Venus Williams...:scared:

brunof
Apr 21st, 2005, 02:55 AM
I really have to think that tennis at this level is all mental. Those who can stay mentally strong win slams, and this can't be underestimated. We all know that Kim and Mauresmo have the talent to win slams, but they haven't done it mentally, when it counts.

Babolatpro880
Apr 21st, 2005, 02:58 AM
Anyone can be overestimated in my opinion. For instance, I think Mirjana Lucic was a bit overestimated this week. Granted, the girl's arguably got more talent than half the players in the top 100 combined, but everyone seemed to expect her to win Dothan or something :confused:

brunof
Apr 21st, 2005, 03:01 AM
I agree, I think Maria for instance gets revered like she's a dominant player, when she's really not domintating the tour.

She may not be dominating the top five, so yea, she isn't #1. But right now there are 1277 who have earned themselves a ranking, and only 9 of them have won slams. When you think of it this way, it's hard to underestimate a slam winner.

Knizzle
Apr 21st, 2005, 03:37 AM
At least she doesn't lose to Silvia Farina-Elia, Jelena Jankovic or Venus Williams...:scared:

Those first 2 were retirements so I wouldn't make too much of them and if you had to bring them up it must mean you had a pretty WEAK argument and such is the case. She's 2-0 against Venus yeah, but that has more to do with Venus' bad play rather than Maria not "losing" to her.

ginger_fish668
Apr 21st, 2005, 04:37 AM
Had to start a separate thread because I think it is a separate question. And not quite so troll-esque. :)

IMHO any player can be overestimated (estimated too highly/held in too high esteem)

Anyone from a club hack to the best in the world can be though too highly of IMHO.

Am I in the minority thinking this? :confused:


I agree. It's a really good point. :worship: You aren't in the minority if we're all gonna be truely honest with ourselves. :)

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:34 AM
And so another potentially useful thread gets derailed. :)

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:36 AM
Anyway, of course a slam winner can be overestimated. It's hard to assert this without giving examples. But let's just say that if someone claimed that Majoli is one of the greatest five players of all time that would clearly be an example of someone being overestimated. The fact that she is a slam winner doesn't somehow negate this.

sartrista7
Apr 21st, 2005, 09:07 AM
I agree with kabuki: everyone can be overestimated. A lot of Slam winners are able to trade on past glories in the eyes of their fans, at the expense of real analysis of where their game with regard to the rest of the Tour is right now.

Many people seem to think that just because Player X was able to win a Slam, or even multiple Slams, at her peak, that she will continue to be able to do so. Even when all the evidence points to the contrary.

syd
Apr 21st, 2005, 09:14 AM
Originally Posted by sartrista7
Many people seem to think that just because Player X was able to win a Slam, or even multiple Slams, at her peak, that she will continue to be able to do so. Even when all the evidence points to the contrary.
agree,

Dan23
Apr 21st, 2005, 09:48 AM
She's 2-0 against Venus yeah, but that has more to do with Venus' bad play rather than Maria not "losing" to her.Its hard for people to stay away and not derail a thread when comments like that are made...:D


..but I'd agree slam winners can be overestimated but those who have improved their rank and overall level of their game since their GS title shouldnt be included in that category...:)

*Karen*
Apr 21st, 2005, 09:54 AM
I always feel these threads are aimed against Maria. She is one of the best players on the tour just now. I'm not saying she's the best but she's gonna be number one very soon and I think she deserves it. At the end of the day its not Maria's fault if certain players are just too crap to beat her. If she wins on the day then she is the deserving winner and she deserves full credit - no matter how crap the opponent is. She deserved her slam. Rain delays or not. The inexperienced player overcame several players who were very experienced in slam finals. In terms of her tennis I really don't think she's overrated at all

sartrista7
Apr 21st, 2005, 11:18 AM
I wish naming players as examples wouldn't lead to fighting, but what can you do with WTAWorld's moron fanatics.

In my mind this isn't very relevant to Sharapova's case. She's more over-hyped than overrated - and it's not ludicrous to name her as a Slam contender given that she is the reigning champion at one of them! Whereas other players are CONSTANTLY talked up as Slam contenders despite, variously, a) not winning a Slam for half a decade, b) winning one single, sole title in over three years, and c) not winning a Slam for four years.

Jakeev
Apr 21st, 2005, 11:39 AM
Anyone can be overestimated in my opinion. For instance, I think Mirjana Lucic was a bit overestimated this week. Granted, the girl's arguably got more talent than half the players in the top 100 combined, but everyone seemed to expect her to win Dothan or something :confused:

Uh I am sure NOT EVERYONE thought Mirjana was gonna come back in her first tournament in a year and kill everybody to win Dothan.

If anything, most of us knew depending on what kind of draw she had, that she probably would not make it out of the first round.

But to get back into the topic at hand, the only two Grand Slam champions I can think of in the Open era that may have been overestimated as players, and I don't even know this for fact, I am just speculating, where Chris O'Neill and Barbara Jordon.

The 78 and 79 Australian Open champions, respectively, did nothing in their careers really before or after in those victories to put any sort of dent in the women's game.

They by a LITERAL luck of the draw, took advantage of a situation they had no control over when the majority of the top players did not go down under in those years.

Outside of those two, every other player I can think of, including other one-slam wonders like Ruzici, Barker and Jausovec, all did pretty well on the tour.

Szymanowski
Apr 21st, 2005, 01:05 PM
I agree, I personally think Federer's a bit overestimated, how many people thought he's gonna win the grand slam, and perhaps go through the year unbeaten? All top players get overestimated, but it does tend to happen with the pretty female players a lot. I think Hanchucova and Kournikova are two very overhyped players, and this did nothing for their tennis.:(

Despite being a fan of Sharapova, the shouts that she's the new dominant player are premature to say the least. She wil probably get to number 1 this year, but is by no means dominant; there are several playes all playing well, Davenport, Serena and Kim just to name a few.

Yeah, I agree, many players are overhyped, but his is not their fault, it's the media.

cheo23
Apr 21st, 2005, 02:55 PM
I always feel these threads are aimed against Maria. She is one of the best players on the tour just now. I'm not saying she's the best but she's gonna be number one very soon and I think she deserves it. At the end of the day its not Maria's fault if certain players are just too crap to beat her. If she wins on the day then she is the deserving winner and she deserves full credit - no matter how crap the opponent is. She deserved her slam. Rain delays or not. The inexperienced player overcame several players who were very experienced in slam finals. In terms of her tennis I really don't think she's overrated at all
EXACtly....SAY NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :worship:

kabuki
Apr 21st, 2005, 03:01 PM
I always feel these threads are aimed against Maria. She is one of the best players on the tour just now. I'm not saying she's the best but she's gonna be number one very soon and I think she deserves it. At the end of the day its not Maria's fault if certain players are just too crap to beat her. If she wins on the day then she is the deserving winner and she deserves full credit - no matter how crap the opponent is. She deserved her slam. Rain delays or not. The inexperienced player overcame several players who were very experienced in slam finals. In terms of her tennis I really don't think she's overrated at all

As the aimer of this thread, I can tell you it is not against Maria.

Knizzle
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:32 PM
I wish naming players as examples wouldn't lead to fighting, but what can you do with WTAWorld's moron fanatics.

In my mind this isn't very relevant to Sharapova's case. She's more over-hyped than overrated - and it's not ludicrous to name her as a Slam contender given that she is the reigning champion at one of them! Whereas other players are CONSTANTLY talked up as Slam contenders despite, variously, a) not winning a Slam for half a decade, b) winning one single, sole title in over three years, and c) not winning a Slam for four years.

So insinuating instead of just speaking your mind won't lead to fighting. If everyone would be honest there would be less fighting.

random fan
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:40 PM
If everyone would be honest there would be less fighting.

Oh come on you must be kidding right?

creep
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:42 PM
I guess whenever a player has won a slam title itís in your mind that they could do it again. And could be at times people can give her that little bit more of an edge than somebody has yet to win a slam. I never underestimate the best players in the world though, thatís how theyíve got there - by being the best. They've proven themselves time and time again.

Knizzle
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:44 PM
Oh come on you must be kidding right?

No I'm not, alot of people here hide their true feelings and it ends up causing more arguing and fighting than if they would just say how they feel. Now I'm not saying they should be rude about it, but there would be no question about it.

LUIS9
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:45 PM
:yeah:

I just know how sensitive and testy EVERYONE is on this board.

I have a specific question that I would like to discuss and would prefer this not to devolve into a typical donnybrook about the more controversial members of the WTA. :lol:

Smart pal or gal you are! Nothing is taken lightly here lol:lol: :lol: :lol:

random fan
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:50 PM
No I'm not, alot of people here hide their true feelings and it ends up causing more arguing and fighting than if they would just say how they feel. Now I'm not saying they should be rude about it, but there would be no question about it.

Well not sure about this forum since I am pretty new here, but in real life.. :devil: