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View Full Version : Justine/Kim/Serena vs. Venus' Game


Geisha
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:43 PM
When Serena came back from knee surgery after eight months away from the Women's Proffesional Tennis Association, she won the Nasdaq-100 Open.

When Kim Clijsters came back from her injury, she returned with the March Double- Indian Wells and the Nasdaq-100 Open, beating top-ten player, left-right-center.

When Justine Henin-Hardenne came back from her injuries, she returned with wins of Davenport and Dementieva at the Family Circle Cup in Charleston.

When Venus came back from injury- she lost to Lisa Raymond in the third round of the Australian Open. She did win two titles, but has only defeated two top-ten players in the last 16 months.

What does this tell us? Are Serena, Kim, Justine more talented than Venus. Do they have more drive and tenacity? Or is Venus just having a harder time getting back to previous form?

deja_entendu
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:46 PM
They are better players. And have been for quite some time now.

Knizzle
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:56 PM
They are better players. And have been for quite some time now.

:yawn:

slydevil6142
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:02 PM
Venus is her own person thats the difference. Funny how Venus has beaten Kim and Serena this year and has a 7-1 h2h against Justine so i guess she knwos how to beat the right players.

icequeen
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:03 PM
When Serena came back from knee surgery after eight months away from the Women's Proffesional Tennis Association, she won the Nasdaq-100 Open.

When Kim Clijsters came back from her injury, she returned with the March Double- Indian Wells and the Nasdaq-100 Open, beating top-ten player, left-right-center.

When Justine Henin-Hardenne came back from her injuries, she returned with wins of Davenport and Dementieva at the Family Circle Cup in Charleston.

When Venus came back from injury- she lost to Lisa Raymond in the third round of the Australian Open. She did win two titles, but has only defeated two top-ten players in the last 16 months.

What does this tell us? Are Serena, Kim, Justine more talented than Venus. Do they have more drive and tenacity? Or is Venus just having a harder time getting back to previous form?

Is that why kim has so many slams and the H2H between Kim, Justine and Venus is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo close?

bandabou
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:15 PM
Venus just isn't finding ways to win matches, even when she's playing well.....she always seems to have a loose game just at the wrong times, fails to convert bp's,etc...

CJ07
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:35 PM
I think you're forgetting something.

When Venus was Kim and Justine's age, she came back from a long layoff and went on a 35-match win streak.

Venus is older, and at a different stage of career than even Serena right now. She's just going through that little plateau that every champion goes through in the transition between their peak and their normal level of play.

I think the next year or two will really determine how Venus will end her career

Nabalonge
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:33 PM
Venus is her own person thats the difference. Funny how Venus has beaten Kim and Serena this year and has a 7-1 h2h against Justine so i guess she knwos how to beat the right players.

And I think that should be accepted. Venus is not now nor has she ever been like Serena or Kim. The comparisons don't change much or explain the real issues that are plauging Venus right now. I'm very happy that Kim came back and did her thing winning again and that Serena came back and then went to win the AO, but I won't compare their success to Venus' struggles.

clijstersfan20
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:44 PM
I Think Venus Has More Chance For Error With Her Shots-- B/c She Puts So Much On Them-- Until She Gets Her Confidence To Where It Used To Be Then She Wont Have The Results Of Kim And Juju Cause Their Shots Are More Mechanically Sound And Have Alot Of Room For Error-- Their Game Styles Are Completely Different

thelittlestelf
Apr 18th, 2005, 10:40 PM
They are better players. And have been for quite some time now.That explains why Venus has beaten each of them the last time they played in straight sets.

deja_entendu
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:32 PM
That explains why Venus has beaten each of them the last time they played in straight sets.

Fortunately for Venus, she's had the luxury of playing Henin-Hardenne ONLY when Henin was a teenager who weighed 95 pounds soaking wet, couldn't hit with power, and couldn't serve (pre-Charleston 03 and pre 04, which is Henin's peak). I would be more concerned that peak Venus was often stretched by Henin when Henin was about 1/20th of the player she is now. In fact I can't wait for their next match so Henin can stop the talk about an archaic and irrelevant head-to-head from a different tennis era. :wavey:

And the "last match" where she beat Clijsters in straight sets was Clijsters' first tournament back obviously, that needs no defending as that result is irrelevant.

And the match where Serena tanked, errr, lost to Venus was the worst match Serena has played since last year's French Open (save maybe her loss to Jidkova, which I did not see but must have been horrible) -- again Venus' wins are a product of excellent timing. And I know you didn't mention the Myskina victory, but since it's her only other top 10 win in years, I'll throw it in anyway. She only (barely) beat Myskina when Myskina is in the worst slump of her professional career. She has to wait for her sister to play her worst match in almost a year to get her other top 10 victory. It's journeywoman-esque!

But her "quality" wins in recent times are not earned so much as they are gifted through luck of the draw, comparable to Petrova's or Suarez's repeated "victories of circumstance" over top players.

But I'll let you pretend anyway. :rolls:

thelittlestelf
Apr 19th, 2005, 12:46 AM
Fortunately for Venus, she's had the luxury of playing Henin-Hardenne ONLY when Henin was a teenager who weighed 95 pounds soaking wet, couldn't hit with power, and couldn't serve (pre-Charleston 03 and pre 04, which is Henin's peak). I would be more concerned that peak Venus was often stretched by Henin when Henin was about 1/20th of the player she is now. In fact I can't wait for their next match so Henin can stop the talk about an archaic and irrelevant head-to-head from a different tennis era. :wavey:

And the "last match" where she beat Clijsters in straight sets was Clijsters' first tournament back obviously, that needs no defending as that result is irrelevant.

And the match where Serena tanked, errr, lost to Venus was the worst match Serena has played since last year's French Open (save maybe her loss to Jidkova, which I did not see but must have been horrible) -- again Venus' wins are a product of excellent timing. And I know you didn't mention the Myskina victory, but since it's her only other top 10 win in years, I'll throw it in anyway. She only (barely) beat Myskina when Myskina is in the worst slump of her professional career. She has to wait for her sister to play her worst match in almost a year to get her other top 10 victory. It's journeywoman-esque!

But her "quality" wins in recent times are not earned so much as they are gifted through luck of the draw, comparable to Petrova's or Suarez's repeated "victories of circumstance" over top players.

But I'll let you pretend anyway. :rolls:
1) I, personally, find it hard to believe that Kim improved that much in the few weeks between Antwerp and the Pacific Life Open. Kim herself said after the match that Venus would have beaten anyone that day, and there wasn't much that she could do. Even a severely injured Venus was able to beat Kim at the Wimbledon '03 semis, just before Kim got the #1 ranking.

2) The last time she beat Justine was at the '03 AO, right before she began to dominate. At this time, Justine was neither underweight nor powerless. In fact, Justine had just lost in the Wimbledon final to yours truly, Venus Williams. Pretty hard to believe that Justine got to the finals of Wimbledon without a serve or any power at all.

3) I can assure you that Serena would NEVER tank a match. If you had even watched the match, you'd see that Serena was really digging deep and giving her all to get to every ball. She was fist pumping, and even broke a racquet. Anyone who watched the match can tell you that Serena did not by any means beat herself or "tank" the match, Venus just really took it to her sister on that day and came out with the big W.

4) The only reason why I didn't mention her victory over Myskina is because this thread is about VENUS, SERENA, KIM, and JUSTINE.

But yes, by your reasoning, Venus has won 4 slams, olympic gold in both singles and doubles, 6 doubles slams, and a total of over 30 titles all because of good timing. Who's pretending now? :retard:

ceiling_fan
Apr 19th, 2005, 12:48 AM
i don't know if they are more talented, maybe venus just has a hard time coming back

venus_rulez
Apr 19th, 2005, 12:57 AM
All this talk about "Venus being over" just shows how much she has accomplished in tennis that she even has an over. Not to diss any players, but if Kim Clijsters were to retire today, the headline would read "solid career, but never able to win a grandslam." The worst headline Venus could have is "she was never able to get her game back after an injury". One is definitely better than the other. The fact is we can all speculate as muh as we want to but the head to heads don't lie. Venus is head and shoulders above both of them, until they turn that around, anything to the contrary is pure speculation.

bigshow21
Apr 19th, 2005, 01:08 AM
Oh good, I liked reading that. All those players were out a long time with injuries and came back and won!! THat is good news for Jen. This means when she comes back she will win too!!! :bounce: (Just trying to get excited and fill this void of no Jen :) )

Stamp Paid
Apr 19th, 2005, 01:41 AM
Venus is the most talented player on tour, so its not that. She just didnt work hard enough on her time off, didnt add anything new to her arsenal, and its still hurting her to this day.

Odd
Apr 19th, 2005, 03:44 AM
Theres no doubt venus can beat anyone on tour. She is that good.

Maybe the problem with venus is she needs to play really good in 3 or 4 matches in a row to win tournaments, which she hasnt been doing. It could be more mental than physical. If thats the case, then im sure she can eventually get back to her best.

clijstersfan20
Apr 19th, 2005, 12:52 PM
Theres no doubt venus can beat anyone on tour. She is that good.

Maybe the problem with venus is she needs to play really good in 3 or 4 matches in a row to win tournaments, which she hasnt been doing. It could be more mental than physical. If thats the case, then im sure she can eventually get back to her best.

i agree with you Odd-- Venus has lacked confidence for sometime 1) when her sister began dominating her- but that only affected her play against Serena 2) when she has come back the last time- someone mentioned earlier about venus' match against kim at antwerp and kim saying venus could have beat anyone that day-- Venus has good days like that and like that match against Serena in Miami but look at her results- she has only made it to one final this year (in Antwerp)-- I think if Venus can go through a whole tournament without dropping a set or atleast winning every match comfortably then she wont have her confidence-- i also believe that until this happens she must play more events

Dunkins
Apr 19th, 2005, 06:20 PM
Venus has one thing thats lacking that these other players had...I think its the "Unpredictable Forehand" which could hit winners then hit lots of errors.

Tennisaddict
Apr 19th, 2005, 08:24 PM
If anybody would have predicted Venus' 2004 and 2005 in terms of tennis to be as it is right now I would have never believed it. That's how unrealistic I still experience Venus' results. I think that she is more talented than Serena, Justine and Kim and that she still wants it, she would not be out there if she didn't have the desire anymore, but somehow she's not reaching her full potential. Venus has become a sub-top player unfortunately. I do believe however that this is temporary and that she will get back in the winners circle eventually. When, how is really difficult to say, because one can only predict, but when she starts finding her consistency and her mental strenght again we will be ooooohing and aaaaaahing again as she was/is IMO the only player that can get these reactions out of me :yeah:.

It is clear for anyone to see that she's been working on her game and that she has improved, things can only get better from here and I hope Venus will find her rythm especially during the slams as it would be one of the sweetest comebacks IMO if she would win one or two or three :bounce: :p.