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View Full Version : The mirroring arc of Clijsters and Henin-Hardenne's careers continues...


Asmus
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:49 AM
1999: Justine wins her first event and then challenges Lindsay at the French. A few weeks later, Clijsters reaches the fourth round of Wimbledon as a qualifier.

2000: Justine and Kim rise up the rankings, with Kim moving up a bit faster. Both play well at the US Open before losing to Davenport.

2001: Justine wins two tournaments to open the year and reaches the fourth round of the Australian while Clijsters lags slightly behind. They have a breakthrough by reaching the semis of the French, where Clijsters wins. However, Justine avenges the loss a few weeks later and reaches the Wimbledon final. At the US Open, each loses to a Williams sister and each ends the year in the top ten.

2002: Neither of them plays quite as well as in 2001 for most of the year, although Clijsters reaches the Aussie semis (beating Justine along the way) and Justine wins Berlin (beating Serena in the final) and reaches the Wimbledon semis. Both lose early at the French and on the same day in the round of 16 at the US Open in tough three setters. Both have strong indoor seasons with Clijsters beating Justine en route to the season ending championships.

2003: Both lose in the AO to a Williams sister. Clijsters wins Indian Wells and then both dominate the clay court season, with Justine winning 2 titles and Kim winning 1 and losing to Justine in the final of another. At the French, it is no surprise when the meet in the finals, with Justine winning. At Wimbledon, both lose to a Williams again and they dominate the US hardcourt season and play in the US Open final. Both become #1, and at the end of the year Clijsters wins the YEC for the second straight year while Justine clinches the year-end #1 ranking.

2004: Both start well, playing in the AO final and winning a few other titles. However, the intensive training they did begins to show and both come down with either a serious illness (Justine) or injury (Kim) that, despite attempted comebacks by each one later in the year, keeps them out for almost 1 year exactly.

2005: After missing the Australian Open, each makes a triumphant return, with Kim beating a good player en route to the quarters at her first event and winning a Tier I with wins over Davenport and Dementieva at the next, and then Justine reaches the quarters of her first event and wins a Tier I event with wins over Davenport and Dementieva at the second.

My conclusion? Kim and Justine are each other's best rivals, for better and worse. They motivate each other to become better, but almost destroy themselves in the process. Now that they are both back, this is definitely going to continue.

auntie janie
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:18 AM
Well I hope not the destroying part! :eek:

TF Chipmunk
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:24 AM
Wow, that's a great comparison. They do motivate each other, whether it's visible or not. They obviously don't acknowledge that in interviews or anything, but they both know that they are each others' rivals. It's great to watch them both go at it, and it's never an easy battle.

I agree with Janie, hopefully not the destroying part :eek:

But what I find ABSOLUTELY crazy is the similarity in their comebacks (results-wise). Kim lost in Quarters to a good Venus in Antwerp, then won Indian Wells beating Lindsay and Elena, Tier I. Then Justine comes back, loses in Quarters to a good Maria in Miami, then wins Charleston Tier I beating Lindsay and Elena! It's almost like "anything you can do I can do better" out there, and the funniest part about it is that it's at the expense of everyone else on the tour :lol: destroying everyone in their paths towards greatness.

minboy
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:27 AM
There are many other parallels from them, here's a couple :

-they reached top ten the same week.
- their mothers both had cancer, kim's mum battled through, Justine's unfortunately didn't.
- at the beginning of their career, Kim was supposed to be a grass court player ( being a wimbledon runner up in junior ), but reached the final of the french open first.. Justine was supposed to be a clay-courter ( she won the french open junior title ), but reached the Wimbledon final first
-they won a tournament on the same day ( Kim : luxembourg 2002; Justine Linz 2002 )
-they both were born during the month of June, and the distance between their birth place is only 35 Km . Actually, Kim's sister, Elke, was born in the same place as Justine (Liège, Luik, Lüttich, Liegi, Lieja, Liegessa.....whatever you call it ) because daddy Clijsters used to play for FC Liège at the time.

and the list goes on and on....

Junex
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:28 AM
1999: Justine wins her first event and then challenges Lindsay at the French. A few weeks later, Clijsters reaches the fourth round of Wimbledon as a qualifier.

2000: Justine and Kim rise up the rankings, with Kim moving up a bit faster.

2001: Justine wins two tournaments to open the year and reaches the fourth round of the Australian while Clijsters lags slightly behind. They have a breakthrough by reaching the semis of the French, where Clijsters wins. However, Justine avenges the loss a few weeks later and reaches the Wimbledon final. At the US Open, each loses to a Williams sister and each ends the year in the top ten.

2002: Neither of them plays quite as well as in 2001 for most of the year, although Clijsters reaches the Aussie semis (beating Justine along the way) and Justine wins Berlin (beating Serena in the final) and reaches the Wimbledon semis. Both lose early at the French and on the same day in the round of 16 at the US Open in tough three setters. Both have strong indoor seasons with Clijsters beating Justine en route to the season ending championships.

2003: Both lose in the AO to a Williams sister. Clijsters wins Indian Wells and then both dominate the clay court season, with Justine winning 2 titles and Kim winning 1 and losing to Justine in the final of another. At the French, it is no surprise when the meet in the finals, with Justine winning. At Wimbledon, both lose to a Williams again and they dominate the US hardcourt season and play in the US Open final. Both become #1, and at the end of the year Clijsters wins the YEC for the second straight year while Justine clinches the year-end #1 ranking.

2004: Both start well, playing in the AO final and winning a few other titles. However, the intensive training they did begins to show and both come down with either a serious illness (Justine) or injury (Kim) that, despite attempted comebacks by each one later in the year, keeps them out for almost 1 year exactly.

2005: After missing the Australian Open, each makes a triumphant return, with Kim beating a good player en route to the quarters at her first event and winning a Tier I with wins over Davenport and Dementieva at the next, and then Justine reaches the quarters of her first event and wins a Tier I event with wins over Davenport and Dementieva at the second.

My conclusion? Kim and Justine are each other's best rivals, for better and worse. They motivate each other to become better, but almost destroy themselves in the process. Now that they are both back, this is definitely going to continue.


Honestly, I have the same eerie feelings.

you could just refer to their W-L records @ GS and you could see how they were close at performing and out-performing with each other.

and to think both represent the two sides of Belgium! :eek:

Justine congratulations on your Win.

shap_half
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:28 AM
I think that the rivalry that exists between the two Belgians is the most intense rivalry there is right now -- it's more intense than the Serena/Jennifer rivarly in the sense that they are both really aiming for glory in Belgium. The matches between Serena/Jen are usually very entertaining and hard fought, and the matches between the Belgian aren't always as competitive but the intensity is all there. You know that they both wanna show each other up not just when they are playing against one another but in their careers as a whole. This is something that does not exist between anyone else in recent memory. They are both trying to up the ante when it comes to how far they can take their career.

TF Chipmunk
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:35 AM
shap_half brings up a pretty good point. They ARE battling for glory in Belgium. They are Belgium's two elite players, and they are like gods. Other rivalries don't have that factor in them. There isn't as much at stake. When Kim and Justine play, it's to represent themselves AND Belgium. When other players play, it's to represent only themselves. It's just totally different mentally.

auntie janie
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:39 AM
There are many other parallels from them, here's a couple :

-they reached top ten the same week.
- their mothers both had cancer, kim's mum battled through, Justine's unfortunately didn't.
- at the beginning of their career, Kim was supposed to be a grass court player ( being a wimbledon runner up in junior ), but reached the final of the french open first.. Justine was supposed to be a clay-courter ( she won the french open junior title ), but reached the Wimbledon final first
-they won a tournament on the same day ( Kim : luxembourg 2002; Justine Linz 2002 )
-they both were born during the month of June, and the distance between their birth place is only 35 Km . Actually, Kim's sister, Elke, was born in the same place as Justine (Liège, Luik, Lüttich, Liegi, Lieja, Liegessa.....whatever you call it ) because daddy Clijsters used to play for FC Liège at the time.

and the list goes on and on....

But Justine's Dad was a postman, while Kim was the privileged daughter of a very famous sportsman. Already Justine may have felt at a disadvantage in relation to Kim -- and then Kim's mum recovered from cancer, as stated, and Justine's mum died. Of course that's just the way life is, but as a kid, I think you couldn't help but resent the kid whose mum lived on while yours was gone forever. Can't ever know these things, but my sense is, the rivalry may run much deeper for Justine than for Kim.

PointBlank
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:44 AM
I cant wait for the day this year the play for the first time again..:hearts:..both amazing competitors..

TF Chipmunk
Apr 18th, 2005, 03:17 AM
But Justine's Dad was a postman, while Kim was the privileged daughter of a very famous sportsman. Already Justine may have felt at a disadvantage in relation to Kim -- and then Kim's mum recovered from cancer, as stated, and Justine's mum died. Of course that's just the way life is, but as a kid, I think you couldn't help but resent the kid whose mum lived on while yours was gone forever. Can't ever know these things, but my sense is, the rivalry may run much deeper for Justine than for Kim.

:bigcry: :sad: :awww: :tears: :sobbing: :crying2:

Rub
Apr 18th, 2005, 03:40 AM
w:eek:w... i haven't given this some deep thoughts before... great comparison Asmus!

Mercury Rising
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:57 AM
But Justine's Dad was a postman, while Kim was the privileged daughter of a very famous sportsman. Already Justine may have felt at a disadvantage in relation to Kim -- and then Kim's mum recovered from cancer, as stated, and Justine's mum died. Of course that's just the way life is, but as a kid, I think you couldn't help but resent the kid whose mum lived on while yours was gone forever. Can't ever know these things, but my sense is, the rivalry may run much deeper for Justine than for Kim.
Indeed, very good thinking...

syd
Apr 18th, 2005, 09:02 AM
Honestly, I have the same eerie feelings.

you could just refer to their W-L records @ GS and you could see how they were close at performing and out-performing with each other.

and to think both represent the two sides of Belgium!

Justine congratulations on your Win.
:)

Hagar
Apr 18th, 2005, 09:22 AM
I'm not so sure they themselves perceive it as a rivalry. It's a rivalry beyond themselves, I guess.

I mean, how big is the chance that one year apart, in the same small country, two girls with such amazing tennis talent are born? It's an incredible coincidence, isn't it?
It's like there would have been a second Federer born in Switzerland a year later.
Kim in any case does not perceive it as a rivalry I think.

Anyway, you won't hear me and other Belgian tennis fans complain. We've been spoiled and it looks like we'll be spoiled some more... :D

May this rivalry last many years!

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 09:36 AM
But Justine's Dad was a postman, while Kim was the privileged daughter of a very famous sportsman. Already Justine may have felt at a disadvantage in relation to Kim -- and then Kim's mum recovered from cancer, as stated, and Justine's mum died. Of course that's just the way life is, but as a kid, I think you couldn't help but resent the kid whose mum lived on while yours was gone forever. Can't ever know these things, but my sense is, the rivalry may run much deeper for Justine than for Kim.

I don't agree - I think it runs deeper for Kim than for Justine. Justine is a pretty blunt person in general, but she's never said anything bad about Kim to the media, which suggests to me that she genuinely doesn't feel the rivalry in a particularly intense way, whereas Kim made those impulsive bitchy remarks after San Diego which were completely unlike her. I mean, Kim has never said anything bad or bitchy about anyone else, only Justine got under her skin enough to provoke her. I think that's quite telling.

auntie janie
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:05 AM
I don't agree - I think it runs deeper for Kim than for Justine. Justine is a pretty blunt person in general, but she's never said anything bad about Kim to the media, which suggests to me that she genuinely doesn't feel the rivalry in a particularly intense way, whereas Kim made those impulsive bitchy remarks after San Diego which were completely unlike her. I mean, Kim has never said anything bad or bitchy about anyone else, only Justine got under her skin enough to provoke her. I think that's quite telling.

That's a good point. Kim does feel it deeply, too. I think what hurt Kim inside was that she had totally dominated the rivalry for the first few years, and like anyone would, she enjoyed her "Queen of the Hill" status. Then suddenly, she couldn't beat the postman's daughter any more. I think Kim's bitchiness about Justine to the media that summer showed that she was having trouble adapting to the new status quo: "She can't be beating me legitimately, she never used to; I'm the better player, so it must be her gamesmanship/drugs that's the difference now."

But Justine was the one on the rise; she was "winning" the rivalry. That's always the easier role. But it's still a huge deal to her. I noticed that she brought up Kim's name out of the blue this week in an interview: "Kim will win a Slam someday." Sure she will, but no one had mentioned Kim; where did that come from? As Queen of the Hill, it's easy to be magnanimous, but still impossible to forget for a moment the former Queen biting at your heels.

Brαm
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:13 AM
"She can't be beating me legitimately, she never used to; I'm the better player, so it must be her gamesmanship/drugs that's the difference now." Kim never said Justine used drugs :rolleyes:

Juju #1
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:19 AM
The only thing that matters:


Grand Slam titles


Justine 3-0 Kim

fifiricci
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:25 AM
Oh dear dear, it took only 17 posts for this to descend into a handbagging session, started as usual by a few Justine obsessives. Particularly classy display from Juju#1.

I'm sure Kim and Justine learnt a lot about themselves and matured in all sorts of nice ways while they were off last year. A pity that most of you haven't ........

:rolleyes:

auntie janie
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:42 AM
Kim never said Justine used drugs

I know that. I guess I should have taken the time to clarify: Kim's DAD, not Kim, implied that Justine must be taking drugs. But Kim never made any statement disavowing her father's comments, which she should have done.

Anyway I didn't mean at all to cause trouble. Justine is my favorite player, but I like Kim and think she's a fabulous player; maybe right now, the best on the Tour. I actually enjoyed her little outburst in 2003 about Justine's alleged strategic injury timeouts, because it made her seem more human. NO ONE can ALWAYS be that sweet! :D

It's great they're both back and still nudging each other to ever higher heights.

azmad_88
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:49 AM
kim is liked by the tour and thats wat makes her fun.
all players like her.
talk to her.
chat with her.
she is also close to myskina, sugiyama
and also befriends with most of the players
serena,venus,mauresmo even sharapova looks nice to her nd vice versa.furhtermore
kim is knocking to the 10 million mark.goodluck there kim
i wont mind because she got 2 YEC and also 4 GS finals . a set of double march. and 23 titles.i think thts definately great.infact she is one year younger.she probably can hve a longer career compared to justine who is married.
of coz winning Gs is a big thing.but hey..its not over yet.she is playing.when she wins a few then we will see.Look u guys, justine didnt even try to contact kim back when they were resting.kim did.well u call tht sportsmanship.even serena-the 7 times GS winner, dislikes justine's attitude im afraid. u have to lie to win GS.shame on u. further more..cant speak proper english after years on tour.sorry you guys.i hate to fight.but when people provoke its tough.sorry for my attitude.

T-T
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:08 PM
I think these parallel careers always show similarities. We attribute superstition to these similarities merely because Belgium happens to issue two great players at the same time. If the two girls would have been Americans or Russians, nobody would notice these similarities.

Their games and personalities, thank God, are totally different. While Kim has a great personality, Justine does not. Their technique is as different as can be. The only thing they have in common is that Belgian underdog-mentality.

Junex
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:44 PM
kim is liked by the tour and thats wat makes her fun.
all players like her.
talk to her.
chat with her.
she is also close to myskina, sugiyama
and also befriends with most of the players
serena,venus,mauresmo even sharapova looks nice to her nd vice versa.furhtermore
kim is knocking to the 10 million mark.goodluck there kim
i wont mind because she got 2 YEC and also 4 GS finals . a set of double march. and 23 titles.i think thts definately great.infact she is one year younger.she probably can hve a longer career compared to justine who is married.
of coz winning Gs is a big thing.but hey..its not over yet.she is playing.when she wins a few then we will see.Look u guys, justine didnt even try to contact kim back when they were resting.kim did.well u call tht sportsmanship.even serena-the 7 times GS winner, dislikes justine's attitude im afraid. u have to lie to win GS.shame on u. further more..cant speak proper english after years on tour.sorry you guys.i hate to fight.but when people provoke its tough.sorry for my attitude.


Wow, how come this topic came to be as personal as it can get.

It is suppose to be a positive thread focusing on the similiraties of both's career, but now its going to be hatefest.

:sad:

Junex
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:49 PM
Oh dear dear, it took only 17 posts for this to descend into a handbagging session, started as usual by a few Justine obsessives. Particularly classy display from Juju#1.

I'm sure Kim and Justine learnt a lot about themselves and matured in all sorts of nice ways while they were off last year. A pity that most of you haven't ........

:rolleyes:


It was a very mature conversation until you and azmad and juju#1 posted.

can we talked with sense around here and not post replies that ends in rolleyes?
honestly, eye rolling is a sign of immaturity.

moby
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:55 PM
I think people just don't like Justine winning. :sad:
That can't be helped though. :D

Oh dear dear, it took only 17 posts for this to descend into a handbagging session, started as usual by a few Justine obsessives.
Clearly Justine fans are not classy. Don't have to remind us every time. :wavey:

While Kim has a great personality, Justine does not.
Nice comparison, by the way. Can't get more subtle than that.

syd
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:00 PM
I don't agree - I think it runs deeper for Kim than for Justine. Justine is a pretty blunt person in general, but she's never said anything bad about Kim to the media, which suggests to me that she genuinely doesn't feel the rivalry in a particularly intense way, whereas Kim made those impulsive bitchy remarks after San Diego which were completely unlike her. I mean, Kim has never said anything bad or bitchy about anyone else, only Justine got under her skin enough to provoke her. I think that's quite telling.
Justine always says that kim was a great champion, and wished she'll come back !
i remember when kim dominated Justine: Kim always liked to be the n°1 belgian, when both were playing exhibition, Kim was always defeated Justine with big pleasure !! she liked to show that she was better than her !
And she hardly accepted the opposite !
and agree with the fact that Kim has always been very friendly with all players except Justine because of that rivalry (which exist and that we can deny it),

Chunchun
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:11 PM
:yeah: great article

Veritas
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:16 PM
I like Kim, she's nice :)

I hope she'll win a Slam soon, though I'm not surprised she hasn't won one yet, since she's been traditionally dominated by the Williams sisters, plus a rejuvinated Justine turning the table in their rivalry certainly didn't help her chances at those Slams.

syd
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:19 PM
I hope she'll win a Slam soon, though I'm not surprised she hasn't won one yet, since she's been traditionally dominated by the Williams sisters
Kim is able to win one, but she seems to have a problem when she meets the williams !

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:37 PM
To clarify - I don't hate Kim or even dislike her particularly for her comments, she'd had a hard loss that she'd not expected (if I remember correctly, even Justine fans were predicting that Kim would win on hardcourt) and a little bitchiness is completely excusable. I just think it's telling that the only player Kim has ever been bitchy about is Justine. And I also think it's telling that, despite being invited to Justine's wedding, she didn't go. I can't imagine her doing that to any other player's wedding she received an invitation to, for no good reason.

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:38 PM
Kim is able to win one, but she seems to have a problem when she meets the williams !

:confused: The two players Kim has lost GS finals to are Jen and Justine...

syd
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:51 PM
The two players Kim has lost GS finals to are Jen and Justine...
Right, jen she's able to beat her, she proved it !
but many times she had opportunities to beat the williams in GS semi : AO 2002, i think,when leading 5-1, she completely let serena come back into the match, and she did the same with Venus who were injured in wimbledon, she lets her winning !!

minboy
Apr 18th, 2005, 02:27 PM
. While Kim has a great personality, Justine does not. .

My, my , my......

For almost a year I had forgotten how some kim fans are nothing but 9 years old immature kids and how they make me dislike her. I even found myself cheering for her in this come back. Now they've been back for 1 month and a half, and they start make me dislike her again in some ways.
Kim seems to have matured a bit since last year ( about time ), too bad some of her fans didn't.

BTW, Justine 's personnality is what got her to 3 GS wins, so maybe you should wonder if something's wrong with Kim's personnality.

rottweily
Apr 18th, 2005, 02:28 PM
Oh dear dear, it took only 17 posts for this to descend into a handbagging session, started as usual by a few Justine obsessives. Particularly classy display from Juju#1.

I'm sure Kim and Justine learnt a lot about themselves and matured in all sorts of nice ways while they were off last year. A pity that most of you haven't ........

:rolleyes:

He just states a fact. It was also the first thing I thought about, what are the important differences:
-Singles GS titles 3 vs 0
-Doubles GS titles 0 vs 2

mboyle
Apr 18th, 2005, 02:30 PM
Justine has 3 slams, however, and Kim has none. That's a major difference.

shap_half
Apr 18th, 2005, 02:32 PM
This rivalry is soo intense. Even their fans participate in it. I guess it's good that they both want to be sooo much better than each other. Although Justine has down played her wanting to win Charleston like Kim won IW, I believe that she probably felt that she had to win Charleston in order to get herself back in the mix and competitive against Kim. Kim's back to being Belgian #1 (the first time since the 2003 YEC) and I'm sure she's enjoying the status. But Justine is keeping it close with her win in Charleston. I think it's quite fun to see the Belgians being soo competitive with one another.

Alfie
Apr 18th, 2005, 02:32 PM
To clarify - I don't hate Kim or even dislike her particularly for her comments, she'd had a hard loss that she'd not expected (if I remember correctly, even Justine fans were predicting that Kim would win on hardcourt) and a little bitchiness is completely excusable. I just think it's telling that the only player Kim has ever been bitchy about is Justine. And I also think it's telling that, despite being invited to Justine's wedding, she didn't go. I can't imagine her doing that to any other player's wedding she received an invitation to, for no good reason.

I'd hardly call Kim's comments about Justine in San Diego 2003 "bitchy," but that's your opinion and I have mine. I think the media takes every opportunity to start something between these two immensely talented women and in that particular press conference they asked her about Justine's injury timeout. It's hardly the first time Justine's used that tactic on her opponents calling injury timeouts in key moments. It's a method that Martina Hingis also employed effectively, within the rules, but questionable in the unstated rules of tennis decorum. Kim answered the questions about the injury timeout and it was her honest assessment after a disappointing loss in which her opponent called a timeout in at least the 2nd time that year.

Hingis and Henin are both ruthless in that way in that they'll do whatever they can to win even if it means breaching tennis decorum. IMO it's part of what makes them great tennis champions...and some people will love 'em or hate 'em for it in the process.

Kim skipped Justine's wedding because it simply didn't fit in her schedule. That time of the year Kim always spent with her then boyfriend Lleyton Hewitt in Australia. It's understandable that she'd try to spend any free time she had with her boyfriend because the end of the year was really the only free extended period they had together.

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 02:37 PM
I'd hardly call Kim's comments about Justine in San Diego 2003 "bitchy," but that's your opinion and I have mine. I think the media takes every opportunity to start something between these two immensely talented women and in that particular press conference they asked her about Justine's injury timeout. It's hardly the first time Justine's used that tactic on her opponents calling injury timeouts in key moments. It's a method that Martina Hingis also employed effectively, within the rules, but questionable in the unstated rules of tennis decorum. Kim answered the questions about the injury timeout and it was her honest assessment after a disappointing loss in which her opponent called a timeout in at least the 2nd time that year.

Hingis and Henin are both ruthless in that way in that they'll do whatever they can to win. IMO it's part of what makes them great tennis champions...and some people will love 'em or hate 'em for it in the process.

Kim skipped Justine's wedding because it simply didn't fit in her schedule. That time of the year Kim always spent with her then boyfriend Lleyton Hewitt in Australia. It's understandable that she'd try to spend any free time she had with her boyfriend because the end of the year was really the only free extended period they had together.

I don't want to turn this into a "is Kim a bitch?" debate because I don't think she is, I just think those remarks were bitchy. What she said was that Justine "always took time-outs" when playing against her. In fact, this was a lie. Justine had never taken a time-out against Kim. She retired injured against her at Rosmalen, but a retirement is hardly a tactic! Kim, on the other hand, had taken a time-out Vs Justine in a previous match. Kim was upset, after a hard loss, I don't bear her illwill for it, but the fact is that she outright lied in that statement. Kim flew out to Australia the day before Justine's wedding, not a month before, or even a week before, just one day before which sends a pretty clear message that she was deliberately making the effort not to go. Which is fine. You don't have to accept every wedding invitation you get. I'm just pointing out that Kim clearly has strong anti-Justine feelings.

minboy
Apr 18th, 2005, 02:37 PM
I'd hardly call Kim's comments about Justine in San Diego 2003 "bitchy," but that's your opinion and I have mine. I think the media takes every opportunity to start something between these two immensely talented women and in that particular press conference they asked her about Justine's injury timeout. It's hardly the first time Justine's used that tactic on her opponents calling injury timeouts in key moments. It's a method that Martina Hingis also employed effectively, within the rules, but questionable in the unstated rules of tennis decorum. Kim answered the questions about the injury timeout and it was her honest assessment after a disappointing loss in which her opponent called a timeout in at least the 2nd time that year.

Hingis and Henin are both ruthless in that way in that they'll do whatever they can to win even if it means breaching tennis decorum. IMO it's part of what makes them great tennis champions...and some people will love 'em or hate 'em for it in the process.

Kim skipped Justine's wedding because it simply didn't fit in her schedule. That time of the year Kim always spent with her then boyfriend Lleyton Hewitt in Australia. It's understandable that she'd try to spend any free time she had with her boyfriend because the end of the year was really the only free extended period they had together.

" She has done it in every match I've played against her"

Would you really call that 'honesty'???

Scobby- Doo
Apr 18th, 2005, 02:54 PM
kim is liked by the tour and thats wat makes her fun.
all players like her.
talk to her.
chat with her.
she is also close to myskina, sugiyama
and also befriends with most of the players
serena,venus,mauresmo even sharapova looks nice to her nd vice versa.furhtermore
kim is knocking to the 10 million mark.goodluck there kim
i wont mind because she got 2 YEC and also 4 GS finals . a set of double march. and 23 titles.i think thts definately great.infact she is one year younger.she probably can hve a longer career compared to justine who is married.
of coz winning Gs is a big thing.but hey..its not over yet.she is playing.when she wins a few then we will see.Look u guys, justine didnt even try to contact kim back when they were resting.kim did.well u call tht sportsmanship.even serena-the 7 times GS winner, dislikes justine's attitude im afraid. u have to lie to win GS.shame on u. further more..cant speak proper english after years on tour.sorry you guys.i hate to fight.but when people provoke its tough.sorry for my attitude.


If Kim would be so great, she wouldn't say anything about it- she just wanted to show how bad Justine is - but she's not, she just isn't pretending like Kim.

Scobby- Doo
Apr 18th, 2005, 02:59 PM
oh and skipping Justine wedding was good decision- it's obvious that they don't like eachother so she maybe didn't want to ruin justine this day

~Rachel~
Apr 18th, 2005, 03:28 PM
Interesting topic :) Let's hope one slight asymmetry in the arc is ironed out soon :D

Three grand slams here we come Kim :yeah:

:lol:

nygirl
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:31 PM
kim is liked by the tour and thats wat makes her fun.
all players like her.
talk to her.
chat with her.
she is also close to myskina, sugiyama
and also befriends with most of the players
serena,venus,mauresmo even sharapova looks nice to her nd vice versa.furhtermore
kim is knocking to the 10 million mark.goodluck there kim
i wont mind because she got 2 YEC and also 4 GS finals . a set of double march. and 23 titles.i think thts definately great.infact she is one year younger.she probably can hve a longer career compared to justine who is married.
of coz winning Gs is a big thing.but hey..its not over yet.she is playing.when she wins a few then we will see.Look u guys, justine didnt even try to contact kim back when they were resting.kim did.well u call tht sportsmanship.even serena-the 7 times GS winner, dislikes justine's attitude im afraid. u have to lie to win GS.shame on u. further more..cant speak proper english after years on tour.sorry you guys.i hate to fight.but when people provoke its tough.sorry for my attitude.

I usually don't answer trolls but the hilarity of this statement just needed pointing out.

Pot meet kettle.

tennisIlove09
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:37 PM
obviously the big difference is JHH has turned the H2H around and has won the majors

treufreund
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:45 PM
Kim is nice but she is not a saint by any means! She did lie out and out about Justine and her dad made some very rude comments too! (no, she is not responsible for his comments but it makes you wonder if Lei and Kim have sat around slandering "christine" behind her back!) Nonetheless, it's no big deal cuz overall I still think Kim is a nice girl! Justine is a very nice person and has many friends on the tour. Myskina and Dementieva like her along with Mauresmo, Dechy, Golovin, Shaughnessy, Sugiyama, Pierce, Hingis, Chanda Rubin and even Capriati went shopping with her!

in sum, I think they are both great for the game and great women. They don't hate each other at all. Grow up people and stop looking for drama!

Martian KC
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:12 PM
I'd hardly call Kim's comments about Justine in San Diego 2003 "bitchy," but that's your opinion and I have mine. I think the media takes every opportunity to start something between these two immensely talented women and in that particular press conference they asked her about Justine's injury timeout. It's hardly the first time Justine's used that tactic on her opponents calling injury timeouts in key moments. It's a method that Martina Hingis also employed effectively, within the rules, but questionable in the unstated rules of tennis decorum. Kim answered the questions about the injury timeout and it was her honest assessment after a disappointing loss in which her opponent called a timeout in at least the 2nd time that year.

Hingis and Henin are both ruthless in that way in that they'll do whatever they can to win even if it means breaching tennis decorum. IMO it's part of what makes them great tennis champions...and some people will love 'em or hate 'em for it in the process.

Kim skipped Justine's wedding because it simply didn't fit in her schedule. That time of the year Kim always spent with her then boyfriend Lleyton Hewitt in Australia. It's understandable that she'd try to spend any free time she had with her boyfriend because the end of the year was really the only free extended period they had together.

Such rubbish! Coming from a clijsterfan none other! I love how you perceive clijster as a saint and make excuses for her, while you totally satanize everything Justine and Martina do and did. BAHAHA! Hilarious stuff!

Allez-H
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:17 PM
:haha: @ Azmad :rolls: Oh how I've missed these fights, life is GOOD :cool:

SJW
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:33 PM
Interesting topic :) Let's hope one slight asymmetry in the arc is ironed out soon :D

Three grand slams here we come Kim :yeah:

:lol:

agreed :)

btw Henin fans complaining about Clijsters' comments in SD, i guess you see why its hard for some to support Henin, she hasn't been too nice about some players in her past either...

nygirl
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:43 PM
agreed :)

btw Henin fans complaining about Clijsters' comments in SD, i guess you see why its hard for some to support Henin, she hasn't been too nice about some players in her past either...


The only thing that comes to mind is JHH's comment regarding Lindsay, for which she later apologized so I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

SJW
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:45 PM
The only thing that comes to mind is JHH's comment regarding Lindsay, for which she later apologized so I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

of course you dont.

never mind :)

LeRoy.
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:09 PM
I just wish they'd get along better (and their fans too ;) ) :)

Melly Flew Us
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:15 PM
...cant speak proper english after years on tour.sorry you guys...

who are you talking about?
justine or yourself?
english isn't the first languauge in every country.
you should know.

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:12 PM
agreed :)

btw Henin fans complaining about Clijsters' comments in SD, i guess you see why its hard for some to support Henin, she hasn't been too nice about some players in her past either...

Personally, I actually prefer people who say the odd bitchy thing, it makes them more human. I find it intriguing that Clijsters seems only to let her inner bitch out when it comes to Justine, I don't hate her for it. I brought it up as a reason why I think that the rivalry matters more to Clijsters than to Justine. I do have some issue with the Kim fans who simply can't admit that she can say/do something wrong and I also find it bizarre that Justine is considered Evil Bitch Queen despite the fact that she (and not Saint Kimmy) received the Player Who Makes A Difference award and the fact that Justine, as well as Kim, has close friends on tour. Neither person is perfect, neither is a saint who can do no wrong, I don't think either is so bitchy that they're hard to support.

nicky
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:12 PM
Oh dear, it really has been quiet last year...it was to be expected things would start over again...And people from both sides are to blame, don't get me wrong...:rolleyes:

I know it will not help but please people: Ignore the trolls! It was an interesting start of the thread, but the "she's nicer">< "she's got the slams" is not exactly interesting - we know that by now :shrug:

nicky
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:17 PM
I don't want to turn this into a "is Kim a bitch?" debate because I don't think she is, I just think those remarks were bitchy.

You're absolutely right, it was bitchy. And I do remember a lot of people in CCL even cheering for it, NOT because the comment was true, but because Kim finally showed the loss hurt her - even we found her too sweet & complacent in her post-loss interviews from time to time ;) :).


Kim flew out to Australia the day before Justine's wedding, not a month before, or even a week before, just one day before which sends a pretty clear message that she was deliberately making the effort not to go. Which is fine. You don't have to accept every wedding invitation you get. I'm just pointing out that Kim clearly has strong anti-Justine feelings.

Saki, I think there was something else to it. I remember Kim "talking" about going to the wedding in her online diary. And by the time the JHH got married, the H2H hadn't turned yet, so there was no bitterness on that side as yet.
However, Kim had just won the Masters, which was a VERY big deal at the time, as you'll probably remember. Hasn't it occured to you Kim might not have gone because she would steal away a lot of the attention? In those days, Justine's result were often overshadowed by Kim's, and at your wedding, you need to be the star, not one of the guests... :angel:

Of course I don't pretend to know what really was the matter - but so does nobody else here :p And admit it, it makes a lot more sense because waiting for endless hours in Shanghai for your connextion to australia is a lot less fun than going to a wedding where you know heaps of people, even if the bride is not your closest friend ;) :)

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:28 PM
You're absolutely right, it was bitchy. And I do remember a lot of people in CCL even cheering for it, NOT because the comment was true, but because Kim finally showed the loss hurt her - even we found her too sweet & complacent in her post-loss interviews from time to time ;) :).

Saki, I think there was something else to it. I remember Kim "talking" about going to the wedding in her online diary. And by the time the JHH got married, the H2H hadn't turned yet, so there was no bitterness on that side as yet.
However, Kim had just won the Masters, which was a VERY big deal at the time, as you'll probably remember. Hasn't it occured to you Kim might not have gone because she would steal away a lot of the attention? In those days, Justine's result were often overshadowed by Kim's, and at your wedding, you need to be the star, not one of the guests... :angel:

Of course I don't pretend to know what really was the matter - but so does nobody else here :p And admit it, it makes a lot more sense because waiting for endless hours in Shanghai for your connextion to australia is a lot less fun than going to a wedding where you know heaps of people, even if the bride is not your closest friend ;) :)

Heh, I'm glad some Kim fans also find her too sweet and complacent in her interviews. Setting aside the fact that her game doesn't appeal to me, that's one of the major reasons I couldn't support Kim. I can't stand it when players just don't seem to give a shit about their losses or strive to improve - it makes me think "well, why should I care, if you don't?" So, in fact, those comments (in a weird way) kinda pleased me because I (like you!) thought that, maybe, she was starting to get annoyed about losing. I may not support Kim, but I think tennis is generally more exciting when all of the top players are playing their best tennis and really really want to win.

Re: the wedding. I don't know. As you say, none of us know. I just find it more than slightly odd and have trouble picturing Kim turning down another player's wedding invitation. I don't think she would have drawn attention away from Justine either. Justine's wedding was a pretty small affair with just a few official photographs released on the official site. But, hey.

Justeenium
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:36 PM
Oh dear dear, it took only 17 posts for this to descend into a handbagging session, started as usual by a few Justine obsessives. Particularly classy display from Juju#1.

I'm sure Kim and Justine learnt a lot about themselves and matured in all sorts of nice ways while they were off last year. A pity that most of you haven't ........

:rolleyes:

and you call me a troll :tape:

Justeenium
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:37 PM
My, my , my......

For almost a year I had forgotten how some kim fans are nothing but 9 years old immature kids and how they make me dislike her. I even found myself cheering for her in this come back. Now they've been back for 1 month and a half, and they start make me dislike her again in some ways.
Kim seems to have matured a bit since last year ( about time ), too bad some of her fans didn't.

BTW, Justine 's personnality is what got her to 3 GS wins, so maybe you should wonder if something's wrong with Kim's personnality.
:yeah:

fifiricci
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:41 PM
I do have some issue with the Kim fans who simply can't admit that she can say/do something wrong

I didn't think there were any? Speaking for myself, I'm always looking for things that will knock Saint Kimmy off that pedestal, just so she looks more like the rest of us poor mortals, he he! ....... :devil:

nicky
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:42 PM
My, my , my......

For almost a year I had forgotten how some kim fans are nothing but 9 years old immature kids and how they make me dislike her. I even found myself cheering for her in this come back. Now they've been back for 1 month and a half, and they start make me dislike her again in some ways.
Kim seems to have matured a bit since last year ( about time ), too bad some of her fans didn't.


Have you ever considered the idea that this works the other way around as well? :angel: :p

(we don't have the monoply on annoying fans you know... ;) )

SJW
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:42 PM
Personally, I actually prefer people who say the odd bitchy thing, it makes them more human. I find it intriguing that Clijsters seems only to let her inner bitch out when it comes to Justine, I don't hate her for it. I brought it up as a reason why I think that the rivalry matters more to Clijsters than to Justine. I do have some issue with the Kim fans who simply can't admit that she can say/do something wrong and I also find it bizarre that Justine is considered Evil Bitch Queen despite the fact that she (and not Saint Kimmy) received the Player Who Makes A Difference award and the fact that Justine, as well as Kim, has close friends on tour. Neither person is perfect, neither is a saint who can do no wrong, I don't think either is so bitchy that they're hard to support.

her comments about Lindsay were ridiculous. Lindsay had had a very serious knee injury which kept her out for a very long time...i watched the match in Zurich and Henin adopted completely the wrong strategy. she just hit it straight back to her instead of either side. to accuse her of faking was absolute bull, and i guess she realised how hurtful that was once she was accused of it herself, and thats when the apology came.

i dont see how it can be justified :confused: she was wrong, but at least she apologised for it.

fifiricci
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:44 PM
and you call me a troll :tape:

Good grief, did I? If I did, it was probably at the time the highest form of low life I could think of, so maybe you should take it as a compliment!. If you'd like me to describe you as some other kind of low life please let me know, you obviously move in those nether regions ............ are there troll amoebas? ;)

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:44 PM
Have you ever considered the idea that this works the other way around as well? :angel: :p

(we don't have the monoply on annoying fans you know... ;) )

I really wish WTAworld didn't have such a tribal mentality. Some Justine fans are annoying little shits. Some Kim fans are annoying little shits. Same goes for the fans of all players. If we all just ignored all of the annoying little shits rather than encouraging the ones that support our favourite player, this would be a much nicer board.

flyingmachine
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:46 PM
I really wish WTAworld didn't have such a tribal mentality. Some Justine fans are annoying little shits. Some Kim fans are annoying little shits. Same goes for the fans of all players. If we all just ignored all of the annoying little shits rather than encouraging the ones that support our favourite player, this would be a much nicer board.
Well I'm afraid is a lot easier to say than done. :o

fifiricci
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:47 PM
I really wish WTAworld didn't have such a tribal mentality. Some Justine fans are annoying little shits. Some Kim fans are annoying little shits. Same goes for the fans of all players. If we all just ignored all of the annoying little shits rather than encouraging the ones that support our favourite player, this would be a much nicer board.

And then this place would be like MTF and people would be bored shitless (see other thread for more on that). Good grief, do you really believe that people want "niceness"! :lol:

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:47 PM
her comments about Lindsay were ridiculous. Lindsay had had a very serious knee injury which kept her out for a very long time...i watched the match in Zurich and Henin adopted completely the wrong strategy. she just hit it straight back to her instead of either side. to accuse her of faking was absolute bull, and i guess she realised how hurtful that was once she was accused of it herself, and thats when the apology came.

i dont see how it can be justified :confused: she was wrong, but at least she apologised for it.

I agree entirely. Her comments were unjustified. My reading of that interview is that she was in perfectionist-mode and was really really annoyed with herself for not employing better tactics. Clearly, she didn't have to let it out in bitchy remarks but I respect her for apologising and she hasn't done it since. I'd have a lot more respect for Kim if she'd made a statement regarding the drugs allegations or if she'd apologised for her own comments, but I still don't hate her for it. All I'm saying is that I don't think Justine is harder to support than Kim in this respect - they both have their bitchy moments but they're both fundamentally nice people.

SJW
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:56 PM
I agree entirely. Her comments were unjustified. My reading of that interview is that she was in perfectionist-mode and was really really annoyed with herself for not employing better tactics. Clearly, she didn't have to let it out in bitchy remarks but I respect her for apologising and she hasn't done it since. I'd have a lot more respect for Kim if she'd made a statement regarding the drugs allegations or if she'd apologised for her own comments, but I still don't hate her for it. All I'm saying is that I don't think Justine is harder to support than Kim in this respect - they both have their bitchy moments but they're both fundamentally nice people.

just out of interest, i thought the drug comments were made by Lei :confused: Kim doesn't have to apologise for anything he says. i'll sure as hell dont hold myself responsible for anything my dad does, he's his own frickin person. re: Kim's comments. they were about "strategic timeouts" right? she was wrong for that because i havent ever really noticed Henin taking timeouts at important times. what i have noticed is that she has been prone to cramps at important stages of matches (Lindsay at the AO, Jennifer at the USO)...dont get me mistaken, i dont think shes faking them in any shape or form, i actually accept that comments such as those made by Kim makes people question the integrity of Henin when things like this happen, and she would have done better off not saying anything at all :o

jes_022
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:57 PM
Is this shitting on each others favorites a daily thing here??? :tape:
I feel like I'm back in pre-school hiding from the flying clay. :p

Jes :bounce:

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:59 PM
just out of interest, i thought the drug comments were made by Lei :confused: Kim doesn't have to apologise for anything he says. i'll sure as hell dont hold myself responsible for anything my dad does, he's his own frickin person. re: Kim's comments. they were about "strategic timeouts" right? she was wrong for that because i havent ever really noticed Henin taking timeouts at important times. what i have noticed is that she has been prone to cramps at important stages of matches (Lindsay at the AO, Jennifer at the USO)...dont get me mistaken, i dont think shes faking them in any shape or form, i actually accept that comments such as those made by Kim makes people question the integrity of Henin when things like this happen, and she would have done better off not saying anything at all :o

She doesn't have to apologise for her dad's comments but the fact that she didn't led to Justine having an absolutly awful time of it with random journalists doing the "well, sweet Kimmy said this so it must be true.." thing. If she'd made a statement the whole thing would have blown over almost instantly - she had the power to scotch that rumour and she chose not to. That doesn't make her the world's worst person or anything, but I'd have had more respect for her if she'd made any effort to refute the allegations.

See the rest of this thread for Kim's SD comments which were basically outright lies.

flyingmachine
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:05 PM
I agree entirely. Her comments were unjustified. My reading of that interview is that she was in perfectionist-mode and was really really annoyed with herself for not employing better tactics. Clearly, she didn't have to let it out in bitchy remarks but I respect her for apologising and she hasn't done it since. I'd have a lot more respect for Kim if she'd made a statement regarding the drugs allegations or if she'd apologised for her own comments, but I still don't hate her for it. All I'm saying is that I don't think Justine is harder to support than Kim in this respect - they both have their bitchy moments but they're both fundamentally nice people.
I'm agree with you on that. At the end of the day both players are humans. Anyway if people wants to compare bitchness in WTA they should have a look at the Russians.
Despite of saying that I'm still disappointed with that statemen about Justine's drugs allegation by Kim's dad.

Martian KC
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:32 PM
her comments about Lindsay were ridiculous. Lindsay had had a very serious knee injury which kept her out for a very long time...i watched the match in Zurich and Henin adopted completely the wrong strategy. she just hit it straight back to her instead of either side. to accuse her of faking was absolute bull, and i guess she realised how hurtful that was once she was accused of it herself, and thats when the apology came.

i dont see how it can be justified :confused: she was wrong, but at least she apologised for it.

Ah see there's the difference between these two. Justine apologies for what she said, clijsters doesn't.

What a saint!

minboy
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:32 PM
Have you ever considered the idea that this works the other way around as well? :angel: :p


I did, and came to the conclusion that no other fan base consider their favourite player as the human incarnation of perfection.( again,not all Kim fans, but way too many of them anyway )

fifiricci
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:41 PM
Ah see there's the difference between these two. Justine apologies for what she said, clijsters doesn't.

What a saint!

Maybe Justine is a catholic and Kim isn't ;)

nicky
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:49 PM
I did, and came to the conclusion that no other fan base consider their favourite player as the human incarnation of perfection.( again,not all Kim fans, but way too many of them anyway )

No they're just annoying in another way :p ;)

Anyway, I wouldn't even be too sure of that - in every fanbase there is a group of people who worship the ground their fave walks on - I guess they miss something in real life :shrug:

And as far as the Kim fans are concerned: I don't think there are that many who think she's a saint...it's just the few who do that attract the attention (especially as we have that reputation - hard to get rid of ;) )... again as in every fanbase it's the extreme one's who catch your eye

SJW
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:50 PM
Ah see there's the difference between these two. Justine apologies for what she said, clijsters doesn't.

What a saint!

i see your wit, logic and astounding humour hasn't changed in Henin's absence.

:o

minboy
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:53 PM
No they're just annoying in another way :p ;)

Anyway, I wouldn't even be too sure of that - in every fanbase there is a group of people who worship the ground their fave walks on - I guess they miss something in real life :shrug:

And as far as the Kim fans are concerned: I don't think there are that many who think she's a saint...it's just the few who do that attract the attention (especially as we have that reputation - hard to get rid of ;) )... again as in every fanbase it's the extreme one's who catch your eye

You're probably right. But , man, this board would be dull as hell without them :p .

nicky
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:54 PM
You're probably right. But , man, this board would be dull as hell without them :p .
:lol:

Martian KC
Apr 18th, 2005, 09:47 PM
i see your wit, logic and astounding humour hasn't changed in Henin's absence.

:o

I see you're still running around excuses for clijsters. Or for whoever is up against Justine?:o

thelittlestelf
Apr 18th, 2005, 10:34 PM
i see your wit, logic and astounding humour hasn't changed in Henin's absence.

:oSo what did Henin say about Lindsay :confused:? I never read it, I'm curious now!

Joana
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:07 PM
So what did Henin say about Lindsay :confused:? I never read it, I'm curious now!

Zurich '02
Lindsay beats Justine 7-6 7-6.
Lindsay has a bad knee injury and basically can't move. However, Justine is totally clueless as how to use it to her advantage and literally hits every ball to Lindsay - bad idea! After that she goes to press conference and says Lindsay faked her injury.
It was stupid, uncalled for, immature... you name it. So fucking what? I don't know about the rest of you, but I've done many stupid, uncalled for and immature things in my life. And later Justine apologized for her comments. Lindsay said she doesn't hold a grudge against Justine. Enough for me.

SJW
Apr 19th, 2005, 06:39 AM
I see you're still running around excuses for clijsters. Or for whoever is up against Justine?:o

er no. not an excuse, a reason. do you apologise for shit your dad does? i know Henin doesn't :o

then again i KNOW you can't read so i wouldnt expect you to understand :wavey:

rottweily
Apr 19th, 2005, 08:04 AM
Then, whoop la, the moment Justine is back, her trolls crawl out from from under their dank rocks and spray GM with their smelly vitriol, like scabby cats marking their territory!
:lol:

You like to talk about yourself it seems.

fifiricci
Apr 19th, 2005, 08:15 AM
You like to talk about yourself it seems.

Oh come on, can't you do better than that? :rolleyes:

ceiling_fan
Apr 19th, 2005, 09:11 AM
great comparison!

Juju #1
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:02 AM
Oh dear dear, it took only 17 posts for this to descend into a handbagging session, started as usual by a few Justine obsessives. Particularly classy display from Juju#1.

I'm sure Kim and Justine learnt a lot about themselves and matured in all sorts of nice ways while they were off last year. A pity that most of you haven't ........

:rolleyes:


I think you should go to RG this year. Remember, AO 2004, it was great.

You'll have a repeat of the trophy presentation :wavey:

fifiricci
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:17 AM
I think you should go to RG this year. Remember, AO 2004, it was great.

You'll have a repeat of the trophy presentation :wavey:

:baby: