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FaceyFacem
Apr 17th, 2005, 11:31 PM
So, I've recently pulled out my tapes of old matches so my roommate (dab2035 on these boards) could get to see the old masters and matches he had missed, we watched the 2000 US Open final between Davenport and V. Williams because I had told him about the concept of centering the ball. Mary Carillo talked about this extensively before the final began, how Davenport used this tactic of taking away the Williams' legs as a weapon and focus the match on pure hitting to defeat Serena convincingly in the quarterfinals. She began the match centering the ball versus Venus and ran out to an early first set lead before letting the 1st set and ultimately the match slip away when she went away from centering the ball.
My question is: could the concept of centering work once again against Venus and Serena? I can understand Mary Carillo's point that a consistent power player like Lindsay (and maybe now Maria, Lansdorp trained, or perhaps an in-form Pierce?) could outhit the Williams' when running was not coming in to play. But in my opinion, perhaps strong defenders like Justine, Kim, or maybe Dementieva who can't really outhit the Williams', but could force the sisters to hit so many shots, especially on clay, that perhaps patience could wear thin eventually and they'd make too many errors.
Ultimately, post here to let me know if centering can win matches over Venus and Serena still, or if they've changed their games enough since 2000 that this strategy would fail.

Knizzle
Apr 17th, 2005, 11:36 PM
The sisters caught on to that strategy and did what they needed to do to counter it. There is a possibility it could work now temporarily because the sisters(especially Venus) have been off their games. As LD found out though, you have to come up with something new after a while cause it won't work forever.

thelittlestelf
Apr 17th, 2005, 11:40 PM
What a great tournament that was!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

La Reine
Apr 17th, 2005, 11:42 PM
Justine tried to use that tactic in her match against Sharapova. It didn't work.

Apart from taking away the running game it also forces them to create their own angles, according to the tennis analysts.

Knizzle
Apr 17th, 2005, 11:43 PM
Justine tried to use that tactic in her match against Sharapova. It didn't work.

Apart from taking away the running game it also forces them to create their own angles, according to the tennis analysts.

It's not supposed to work against Maria. Maria likes to stand in one place and hit. Maria is the type of player you need to move around the court.

FaceyFacem
Apr 17th, 2005, 11:47 PM
Apart from taking away the running game it also forces them to create their own angles, according to the tennis analysts.

yeah, exactly which usually causes errors when you try for too much, which i think would make it a possibility for the quick players who can get back the shots that don't miss

i agree that the williams' caught on, but that was my idea on this, it hasn't been tried in a while, and venus and serena have both been error-prone despite some positive results for both

La Reine
Apr 17th, 2005, 11:47 PM
It's not supposed to work against Maria. Maria likes to stand in one place and hit. Maria is the type of player you need to move around the court.

My thoughts exactly. Sharapova isn't exactly the world's greatest runner. And taking some pace off the ball was also a bad idea by Justine.

Knizzle
Apr 17th, 2005, 11:50 PM
yeah, exactly which usually causes errors when you try for too much, which i think would make it a possibility for the quick players who can get back the shots that don't miss

i agree that the williams' caught on, but that was my idea on this, it hasn't been tried in a while, and venus and serena have both been error-prone despite some positive results for both

You have to hit with depth consistently for this to work and hope the sisters don't move their feet.

FaceyFacem
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:34 AM
You have to hit with depth consistently for this to work and hope the sisters don't move their feet.

agreed, but depending on their patience, especially on clay, i'd like to see someone test it out, especially someone with a bad record against the sisters

Knizzle
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:36 AM
agreed, but depending on their patience, especially on clay, i'd like to see someone test it out, especially someone with a bad record against the sisters

Like who?

FaceyFacem
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:39 AM
kim

Knizzle
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:41 AM
kim

Hopefully I'll be getting Kim's last match vs Venus in Antwerp so I can see what went on that day. I don't think Kim would do well with that strategy because her own movement is her strength and she has great groundstrokes to pound away with.

FaceyFacem
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:14 AM
bump for the europeans just waking up...
yes knizzle, i would like to see what happened in their recent match
i'm just saying that i'm surprised that after lindsay destroyed serena and was on a good pace against venus, that strategy was never really revived

!<blocparty>!
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:55 AM
Dokic once said this. I don't know.

deja_entendu
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:56 AM
"Centering" was a made up idea when the commentators were desperately searching for ways to beat a Williams -- let me tell you that hitting the ball up the middle over and over again is rarely if ever a good idea and I think Mary Carillo was mistaking "playing passive consistent tennis" for "centering the ball". But hey if you would like to hit the ball in the middle of the court against Serena and think that you'll beat her, go for it. :rolls: Honestly if it appeared as though Lindsay was hitting the ball down the middle it's because Serena was hitting the ball into the parking lot as much as she was the court and Lindsay didn't have to do a damn thing other than keep the ball iln play.

Ryan
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:48 AM
"Centering" was a made up idea when the commentators were desperately searching for ways to beat a Williams -- let me tell you that hitting the ball up the middle over and over again is rarely if ever a good idea and I think Mary Carillo was mistaking "playing passive consistent tennis" for "centering the ball". But hey if you would like to hit the ball in the middle of the court against Serena and think that you'll beat her, go for it. :rolls: Honestly if it appeared as though Lindsay was hitting the ball down the middle it's because Serena was hitting the ball into the parking lot as much as she was the court and Lindsay didn't have to do a damn thing other than keep the ball iln play.


No, it wasn't made up. Hitting deep to the center of the court did work against the Williams sisters, sometimes. Your statement about Serena's play had something to do with the result, but Lindsay did center the ball and pound it consistantly deep. This obviously threw Serena out of her rhythm, you'd have to be stupid to say it didn't.

GoDominique
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:55 AM
This was the final where Lindsay's sucking in Grand Slams began. 4-1 lead wasted for no reason.