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View Full Version : Is Elena D. the fastest player on tour?


GoDominique
Apr 17th, 2005, 05:50 PM
Yes.

-Ph51-
Apr 17th, 2005, 05:51 PM
No, Kim is :p

goldenlox
Apr 17th, 2005, 05:52 PM
I think Anastasia is.

Becool
Apr 17th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Kim is

backhanddtl4
Apr 17th, 2005, 05:56 PM
Myskina.

crazillo
Apr 17th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Smashnova is. ;)

jan.
Apr 17th, 2005, 05:58 PM
Nastya is.

Hawk
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:00 PM
Kim

jes_022
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:02 PM
Although I'm leaning more towards Kim, i'm not really sure.
I think it also depends on the surface they are playing on.

Pengwin
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:04 PM
Kim and Venus

davidmario
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:06 PM
Venus is very fast and she reaches almost every ball but her problem is that she can't control them. Sugiyama is very fast, too.

Mattographer
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:11 PM
Don't forget Monica Seles in specific match against Klara Koukalova at AO when she sprained her ankle :eek: It was like she's the fastest ever I've seen! :lol:

bmxbandit
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:16 PM
Kim/Anastasia/Venus

G_Slammed
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:19 PM
Dementieva is defintely one of two best athletes on the tour. The other being Clijsters.

No Name Face
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:20 PM
dementieva isn't the fastest, she has the best anticipation

now if she could get the ball over the net, she'd be the perfect player :(

creep
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:22 PM
No.

Wojtek
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:36 PM
No

Wiggly
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:38 PM
Dementieva is fast as Kim but she don't have to do split :p

jimbo mack
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:51 PM
out of all the players i think of 5:

myskina, venus, serena, clijsters and capriati

UDiTY
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:02 PM
SHe's the probably neck and neck with Kim, but I prefer the shots she hits on the run.


Really knows when to kill a forehand on the run and when to hack it...also has a good defensive one-handed backhand slice. Kim's splits she does too often, and ofetn when they are not needed.:D

vutt
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:06 PM
No, Kim, Nasya, Venus are all quicker...

VeNuS#1LoVa
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:13 PM
Venus is...

Everyone thinks Kim is because she gets a million balls back and splits. Venus sprints to it and hits winners.

Venus, show 'em how it's done and win Rome! :kiss:

skanky~skanketta
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:13 PM
even justine is as fast as her.

fleemke³
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:14 PM
Elena is the fastest ... Justine and Kim come close :)

RenaSlam.
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:15 PM
Kim is the fastest. Followed by Venus. Followed by Dementieva/Justine/the rest of the tour.

deja_entendu
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:16 PM
Elena is fast but she doesn't recover well. Kim and Myskina are the fastest, most other players are not that far behind...

hotandspicey
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:17 PM
Hell NO!!! I,m sure you know the answer. You are just baiting.

creep
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:17 PM
Hold on! Hehe we forgot to ask over which distance?

Tichi
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Observe the sprints Kim does, you'll know the answer.

JenFan75
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:25 PM
I think Elena, Kim and Nastya are pretty close, but Lena is the fastest.

mandy7
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Kim is..
lena d and myskina are both in 2nd place

Joana
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:29 PM
Lindsay is :crazy:

thelittlestelf
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:32 PM
I still think it's 1) Venus 2) Kim and 3) Serena, personally ;).

Lady
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:38 PM
In my opinion Kim is faster!

faste5683
Apr 17th, 2005, 08:02 PM
No, it's a toss-up between Lindsay and Eleni Daniilidou.

:wavey:

sebbe
Apr 17th, 2005, 08:06 PM
I would also say Kim...never seen someone move that good like she does

LindsayRulez
Apr 17th, 2005, 08:08 PM
tough question; I'd say Kim/Elena/Anastasia are all pretty speedy, followed by Justine...when Venus and Serena were in their prime, they were the fastest at that time I think

Almalyk
Apr 17th, 2005, 08:34 PM
Nastya Myskina and Anna Smashnova

DEETHELICK
Apr 17th, 2005, 08:40 PM
She is one of the fastest. Many others too.

SJW
Apr 17th, 2005, 08:44 PM
Lindsay is :crazy:

the best answer in this thread. the list of fastest players by some has made me giggle.

!<blocparty>!
Apr 17th, 2005, 08:47 PM
LOL, Kim is, then Venus.

cometz9
Apr 17th, 2005, 08:53 PM
Kim is the fastest on court but Venus can cover every part of the court like no one else

selyoink
Apr 17th, 2005, 09:14 PM
I think Myskina, Clijsters, Serena, and Lena D. are all neck and neck. Very close between those 4.

Dominic
Apr 18th, 2005, 03:47 AM
She is indeed impressivly fast. But Myskina's movement just amazes me evry time I see her. I think she's as quick as some atp players. Lena D is just a tad bit slower than her in my opinion. Kim Justine and the sisters are next.

SzavayFi
Apr 18th, 2005, 03:53 AM
Yea i agree Lena is VEERRY quick

Gowza
Apr 18th, 2005, 03:57 AM
i reckon its out of kim, dementieva, justine and venus, never seen smashnova play so dont know hwo quick she is.

Rub
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:01 AM
kim and venus

Chunchun
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:10 AM
:rocker:

_LuCaS_
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:11 AM
Nastya and Kim hands down :dog: ;)

J_Migoe
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:49 AM
Venus and then Serena!!!

LUIS9
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:25 AM
Its a fight between Clijsters and Venus, I mean laterally it seems Venus is the fastest but overall Clijsters is just as good and even moving forward.

azmad_88
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:41 AM
1st kim
2nd nastya
3rd lenaD

fifiricci
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:53 AM
Its definitely Kimmy!

syd
Apr 18th, 2005, 09:09 AM
lenaD & Kim

Dementinator
Apr 18th, 2005, 10:58 AM
Well Lena is certainly fast thats for sure ,but perhaps there are a couple faster ,BUT what makes Lena unique is her thats she a tall ,Powerfully built girl ,but plays very fast and hits winners from some amazing places on the court ,that others rarely see!

So iam sure shes in the top 5 fastest players out there ,normaly bigger girls are not that fast but Lena is one of the Exceptions!

xan
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:03 AM
Justine looked pretty nippy yesterday.

So Disrespectful
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:39 AM
Molik is so fast that she can't even stop herself from running into the umpire's chair ;)

BoucharDRules
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:47 PM
When her legs are healthy....Lena is helluva fast. :bolt:



Maybe they should have a WTA combine (or skills competition) where the players can run a 40 yard dash.

BoucharDRules
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:49 PM
Justine looked pretty nippy yesterday.

:lol: Those are her boobs.

thelittlestelf
Apr 18th, 2005, 01:51 PM
I still think that no one attacks short balls like Serena. Lena D has got the best anticipation though, she's running for balls before they're even swung at!

Experimentee
Apr 18th, 2005, 03:19 PM
No.

alfonsojose
Apr 18th, 2005, 03:41 PM
Venus is taller and has more reach. She's fast

virtue05
Apr 18th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Venus

pan
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:08 PM
in her good shape two years ago a lot of coaches and players called MARTINA MÜLLER the fastest player on the tour.

Spunky83
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:28 PM
Nastya all the way:

http://mfile.akamai.com/8589/rm/ibmusopen.download.akamai.com/8589/2004/hl/hl090201_hi.rm

...with Kim and Elena following as close second

bandabou
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:29 PM
Kim, Lena D, Myskina and Venus AND Justine ALL faster than Serena? :eek:

ys
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Kim, Lena D, Myskina and Venus AND Justine ALL faster than Serena? :eek:

bandabouspeak - "Serena, Serena, blah blah blah, Serena, Serena, blah blah blah".. :lol:

Knizzle
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:33 PM
Kim, Lena D, Myskina and Venus AND Justine ALL faster than Serena? :eek:

Venus is the only one who is faster, but Serena moves smoother than all of them.

GoDominique
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:34 PM
Venus is the only one who is faster, but Serena moves smoother than all of them.
Have you seen her lately?

Wojtek
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:35 PM
Venus is the only one who is faster, but Serena moves smoother than all of them.

:lol: :lol: :lol: We have 2005 not 2001 or 2002

Wojtek
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:37 PM
bandabouspeak - "Serena, Serena, blah blah blah, Serena, Serena, blah blah blah".. :lol:

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Knizzle
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:38 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: We have 2005 not 2001 or 2002


I have no idea what you just said.

Knizzle
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:38 PM
Have you seen her lately?

Who Serena?? Yes.

Wojtek
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:38 PM
I have no idea what you just said.

I wrote

thelittlestelf
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:43 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: We have 2005 not 2001 or 2002Did you see her against Lindsay in Amelia Island? That unreal forehand passing shot dtl?

timray
Apr 18th, 2005, 05:53 PM
I think Myskina is the fastest

bandabou
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:57 PM
And Ys talk is Russians this, Russians that.......thing is the results aren't backing up that claim too often lately.....;)

DA FOREHAND
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:21 PM
This week it's Elena, Last week it was Kim, after the A.O. it was Serena


some people have the memory of a flea!

flyingmachine
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:24 PM
No. Kim is the fastest player on tour.

Dominic
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:31 PM
This week it's Elena, Last week it was Kim, after the A.O. it was Serena


some people have the memory of a flea!

That is because those players are all very good movers and are very close to each other in that department. So of course people have different views.

exoneuk
Apr 18th, 2005, 10:33 PM
Stick 'em all on a 100M sprint track and let's see! :D Wouldn't that be good to watch? :D

bigshow21
Apr 19th, 2005, 01:04 AM
No.

I would say Kim is first followed by Elena.

Greenout
Apr 19th, 2005, 01:07 AM
Yes!

vogus
Apr 19th, 2005, 02:21 AM
I tell you what after watching yesterday's final from the front row, i have to say that there is no woman player anywhere who is faster than Henin moving forward to the net. Lena and the others named maybe a little faster side to side, but Justine has amazing speed and quickness in all directions and that's an under-rated quality.

_LuCaS_
Apr 19th, 2005, 07:26 AM
Stick 'em all on a 100M sprint track and let's see! :D Wouldn't that be good to watch? :D
:lol: yep (be sure to check some pushing around during the race)
I'd like a 110 M hurdles also ;)

venus_rulez
Apr 19th, 2005, 07:43 AM
To me they're all fast in different ways. Myskina isn't so much as fast as she anticipates very well. Venus isn't so much as fast as much as it is her long reach that helps her out. Serena to me doesn't move THAT fast side to side but give her a short ball and she's all over it. If we're talking about purely who's the fastest, I think it should be measured by if all the players were standing perfectly still at the baseline and were given a short ball who'd get there the quickest? I think that's Kim Clijsters. There all speedy girls, but anybody out of those 4 of the big names is just kidding themselves.

faste5683
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:01 AM
I tell you what after watching yesterday's final from the front row, i have to say that there is no woman player anywhere who is faster than Henin moving forward to the net. Lena and the others named maybe a little faster side to side, but Justine has amazing speed and quickness in all directions and that's an under-rated quality.

Does she look as tiny as she does on T.V.?

:wavey:

bandabou
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:59 AM
kim vs Serena....let's see who ends up with fewer winners against her.

Jackson.
Apr 19th, 2005, 12:07 PM
She's up there with Kim and Nastya :worship: :)

azmad_88
Apr 19th, 2005, 12:13 PM
lena can run faster to the net
i heaed the commentator said
she seldom run
she take those big Lunging steps
which make her off balance to take drop shot.
u know thoe BIG Jumping step..

Knizzle
Apr 19th, 2005, 02:28 PM
I tell you what after watching yesterday's final from the front row, i have to say that there is no woman player anywhere who is faster than Henin moving forward to the net. Lena and the others named maybe a little faster side to side, but Justine has amazing speed and quickness in all directions and that's an under-rated quality.

I disagree, I have alot of matches on tape featuring Henin from 2001-2003 and the drop volley and drop shot works extremely well against her. She can't seem to reach them. She moves alot better side to side I think.

Knizzle
Apr 19th, 2005, 02:30 PM
kim vs Serena....let's see who ends up with fewer winners against her.

Funny you should say that, the WS seem to take the most winners away from the opponent.

kabuki
Apr 19th, 2005, 02:31 PM
1. Kim
2. Venus
3. Elena
4. Serena
5. Jen

andrewbroad
Apr 21st, 2005, 12:09 AM
Iroda Tulyaganova is the fastest - she's an amazing athlete! :worship:

Then Vera Zvonareva - remarkable retrieval-skills, although this is due more to brilliant racket-work and resourcefulness than to sheer speed of movement.

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/tulya/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/tulya/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/zvona/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/zvona/)

bandabou
Apr 21st, 2005, 03:57 AM
Funny you should say that, the WS seem to take the most winners away from the opponent.

Tjaaa......yet they're barely top 10 in movement....funny....

VeeReeDavJCap81
Apr 21st, 2005, 04:20 AM
I think Venus has the best baseline to net speed. And Kim has the best lateral movement.

Dominic
Apr 22nd, 2005, 03:35 AM
The williams used to be incredibly speedy but since their comebacks, they're both less impressive. Still probably in top 5. But to not put Myskina in the top 5 quickest is just silly.

Darop.
Apr 22nd, 2005, 05:05 AM
Definitely.

Someone said that Venus is faster than Elena? :tape:

Knizzle
Apr 22nd, 2005, 05:58 AM
Definitely.

Someone said that Venus is faster than Elena? :tape:

She is most definitely.

jochem
Apr 22nd, 2005, 12:16 PM
Kim, Elena and Anastasia. But Elena and Anastasia probably run a lot more as they don't have the magnificant Clijsters split-action!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's how Clijsters avoids running to much in my opinion! And hell yeah, it works!

ceiling_fan
Apr 22nd, 2005, 12:19 PM
kim is

bandabou
Apr 22nd, 2005, 12:36 PM
Kim isn't fast.....in fact she cheats most of the time by doing the splits....THAT is what makes her reach so many balls.

Dementinator
Apr 22nd, 2005, 01:01 PM
Kims splits is absolutely disgusting!! heheh "Close your legs dear ,theres a draft in here!!"

DEETHELICK
Apr 22nd, 2005, 01:04 PM
Comparing Venus and Elena's speed is silly. On the run, they both hit the ball differently. Venus' reach helps her cover more court on the run, whereas Elena uses strength from her legs to run onto the ball rather than using her limited reach.

Both girls are amazingly fast, especially for tall women, but in the HK final this year, Elena definitely seemed lighter and speedier around the court.

Doc
Apr 22nd, 2005, 04:55 PM
Elena

ans
Apr 22nd, 2005, 05:55 PM
I dunno. I never thought "wow she's fast" actually. I only know that when you want to hit a dropshot against Kim it has to be really really good en Kim should be somewhere on the other side of the court.

mboyle
Apr 22nd, 2005, 07:24 PM
Kim is clearly the fastest. Someone said she just seems fast because she gets to balls and slices them back but Venus whacks them. The balls Kim gets to but slices are balls absolutely no one else on tour can reach. The balls Venus is smacking on the run Kim hits standing still (having just already gotten there.) Serena and Venus are also faster than average, as are Justine and Myskina. Dementieva's movement is average.

Knizzle
Apr 22nd, 2005, 07:26 PM
Kim is clearly the fastest. Someone said she just seems fast because she gets to balls and slices them back but Venus whacks them. The balls Kim gets to but slices are balls absolutely no one else on tour can reach. The balls Venus is smacking on the run Kim hits standing still (having just already gotten there.) Serena and Venus are also faster than average, as are Justine and Myskina. Dementieva's movement is average.

:haha: More comedy from mboyle. Keep em coming!!

bandabou
Apr 22nd, 2005, 07:45 PM
mboyle's fantasy is adrift again..

smarties
Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:05 PM
Elena uses strength from her legs to run onto the ball rather than using her limited reach.


Elena is 6'0 and Venus is 6'1 1/2, I don't think that Lena's reach is so limited...

TomTennis
Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:08 PM
No.

Venus is cleary the fastest on tour. She is so quick its unbelieable sometimes. As a youngster, Venus used to love track as well as tennis.

Venus Williams is the fastest player on tour.

Brαm
Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:10 PM
Kim isn't fast
:spit: :haha:


I'll have to remember that one :yeah:

Pengwin
Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:13 PM
Venus is tall but has especially long arms compared to her height.

bandabou
Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:31 PM
:spit: :haha:


I'll have to remember that one :yeah:

She's fast....but I don't think she's the fastest..

deja_entendu
Apr 22nd, 2005, 10:59 PM
Well bandy, you're wrong! The consensus among commentators and fans alike is that no one can touch the speed of Kim... but of course, being a silly Williams fan, you'll say different...

Dominic
Apr 22nd, 2005, 11:16 PM
Kim is clearly the fastest. Someone said she just seems fast because she gets to balls and slices them back but Venus whacks them. The balls Kim gets to but slices are balls absolutely no one else on tour can reach. The balls Venus is smacking on the run Kim hits standing still (having just already gotten there.) Serena and Venus are also faster than average, as are Justine and Myskina. Dementieva's movement is average.

Dementieva's movement average!!! Are you out of your mind!?

Knizzle
Apr 22nd, 2005, 11:18 PM
Well bandy, you're wrong! The consensus among commentators and fans alike is that no one can touch the speed of Kim... but of course, being a silly Williams fan, you'll say different...

No it isn't. I recently watched Venus' last match against Kim in Antwerp and the commentator said NO ONE in the history of tennis covered the court like Venus. If Kim moved better than Venus or Serena then she would probably have a couple more wins over them, but the fact is she doesn't.

bandabou
Apr 22nd, 2005, 11:29 PM
Well bandy, you're wrong! The consensus among commentators and fans alike is that no one can touch the speed of Kim... but of course, being a silly Williams fan, you'll say different...

I don't think it's a consensus.....Kim vs Serena oz open 03....I think in that match Serena proved she's faster....

deja_entendu
Apr 23rd, 2005, 01:33 AM
I don't think it's a consensus.....Kim vs Serena oz open 03....I think in that match Serena proved she's faster....

LOL, she definitely didn't. In fact if you're to discuss Williams sisters, Serena is definitely not as fast as Venus, and no offense bandy but it's not 2000, and most of the top players move as well as the Williams, and some are faster, Kim in particular. Have you even seen the AO 2003??? Kim covered the court like a gazelle.

And Knizzle, Venus has reach but she's definitely not the fastest, she can't change directions all that well, unlike, say, Kim, Steffi, or ASV.

If you're going to argue that anyone but Kim Clijsters is the fastest player on tour you need some serious :help:. Also notice how it's only Williams fans saying the Williams sisters, but many non-Kim fans are saying Kim... in fact many Williams fans are saying Kim... this case has been long closed :wavey:

But I'll let you go back to la la land where Venus and Serena have the best forehand, backhand, first serve, second serve, volleys, movement, dropshots, lobs, anticipation, court sense, etc...

azza
Apr 23rd, 2005, 01:36 AM
Pratts faster

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 01:40 AM
LOL, she definitely didn't. In fact if you're to discuss Williams sisters, Serena is definitely not as fast as Venus, and no offense bandy but it's not 2000, and most of the top players move as well as the Williams, and some are faster, Kim in particular. Have you even seen the AO 2003??? Kim covered the court like a gazelle.

And Knizzle, Venus has reach but she's definitely not the fastest, she can't change directions all that well, unlike, say, Kim, Steffi, or ASV.

If you're going to argue that anyone but Kim Clijsters is the fastest player on tour you need some serious :help:. Also notice how it's only Williams fans saying the Williams sisters, but many non-Kim fans are saying Kim... in fact many Williams fans are saying Kim... this case has been long closed :wavey:

But I'll let you go back to la la land where Venus and Serena have the best forehand, backhand, first serve, second serve, volleys, movement, dropshots, lobs, anticipation, court sense, etc...

Venus covers the most distance in the shortest amount of time therefore she is the fastest. She goes side to side as good or better than anyone including Kim. Why is it that Venus and Serena can catch up to Kim's big shots more than Kim can catch up to theirs?? :shrug: Why does she struggle against them??

We know you'd do anything to take something away from Venus or Serena though.

deja_entendu
Apr 23rd, 2005, 01:57 AM
Knizzle you're arguing with the entire tennis world. Kim is the fastest, end of story. She struggles with V&S because 1) she's choked against them quite a few times 2) her last match against Venus was her first tournament back and most importantly, 3) she is not nearly as explosive offensively nor can she serve as powerfully*.That's why she struggles with them dumbass, just because she's faster doesn't mean she'll win every match.

Now, why have the (considerable) majority of people here said that Kim is the fastest?? Riddle me that...

(That being said I highly anticipate Kim's next match vs. the Williamses, she's starting to show she's a much more highly developed player and so long as she doesn't choke I have no doubt she'll win :bounce: )

Brinyi
Apr 23rd, 2005, 02:00 AM
No.

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 02:06 AM
Knizzle you're arguing with the entire tennis world. Kim is the fastest, end of story. She struggles with V&S because 1) she's choked against them quite a few times 2) her last match against Venus was her first tournament back and most importantly, 3) she is not nearly as explosive offensively nor can she serve as powerfully*.That's why she struggles with them dumbass, just because she's faster doesn't mean she'll win every match.

Easy to call me a dumbass sitting behind your PC son. Anyway, she just beat Sharapova who serves and hits very powerfully, but she was able to handle her in straights while Maria was playing very well.

Now, why have the (considerable) majority of people here said that Kim is the fastest?? Riddle me that...

Probably because she prefers to run balls down more than being aggressive and she does the splits to reach balls. She is very fast in her own right though, but doesn't cover as much court as the sisters. The sisters play alot less defense than Kim does, but when they do defend they do it better than her.

(That being said I highly anticipate Kim's next match vs. the Williamses, she's starting to show she's a much more highly developed player and so long as she doesn't choke I have no doubt she'll win :bounce: )

Why would she choke if she's a much more highly developed player?? Maybe because she isn't. I think deja_nintendo is the one living in a fantasy world.

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 02:07 AM
BTW I have video evidence that can be posted within a day.

deja_entendu
Apr 23rd, 2005, 02:27 AM
Then post it! Although I have dial up and won't be able to watch it, I'd love it if you post it so the rest of the board can either say you're right or you're completely wrong. While you're at it post LA 2002 or AO 2003, there's plenty of evidence for Kim being faster. And you're telling me, knizzle, that Venus and Serena are better on OFFENSE and DEFENSE than Kim Clijsters, even though Kim has done a wayyyyyyyyyyyy better job of beating everyone on tour in the past few years than them (well, not so much Serena, but certainly Venus). Then tell me why Kim was able to beat Maria when Venus, playing at her best level in years, wasn't. See? We could go on all day about this, the simple matter of it is that I believe Kim Clijsters is the fastest player on tour, and so do the majority of posters on this board. Your incessant whining and hoping for everyone to say Serena or Venus is pointless... no one's been saying that, especially not Serena.

Also, don't try and act tough or dominant by calling me "son", it makes you look :retard:, and if we were talking in person you're right I wouldn't call you "dumbass", I would call you a "fucking moron" :rolls:

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 08:48 AM
Then post it! Although I have dial up and won't be able to watch it, I'd love it if you post it so the rest of the board can either say you're right or you're completely wrong. While you're at it post LA 2002 or AO 2003, there's plenty of evidence for Kim being faster. And you're telling me, knizzle, that Venus and Serena are better on OFFENSE and DEFENSE than Kim Clijsters, even though Kim has done a wayyyyyyyyyyyy better job of beating everyone on tour in the past few years than them (well, not so much Serena, but certainly Venus). Then tell me why Kim was able to beat Maria when Venus, playing at her best level in years, wasn't. See? We could go on all day about this, the simple matter of it is that I believe Kim Clijsters is the fastest player on tour, and so do the majority of posters on this board. Your incessant whining and hoping for everyone to say Serena or Venus is pointless... no one's been saying that, especially not Serena.

Venus was playing at her best level in years in Miami?? You basing that solely on beating Serena?? Venus lost to Maria cause she hit up the middle and wasn't aggressive at all while Maria played a great match. I don't see where Kim has done a way better job of beating everyone else than Serena or Venus. Kim was off tour for most of 2004 and when she was on tour Serena and Venus were out injured. You sound very familiar though, sort of like a punk who would take a picture smoking a cigarette like a girl. Or use variations of a O or 0 to make up their username.

Also, don't try and act tough or dominant by calling me "son", it makes you look :retard:, and if we were talking in person you're right I wouldn't call you "dumbass", I would call you a "fucking moron" :rolls:

You just might do that, but after you pick yourself up off the floor you'll realize that it wasn't worth it. When keeping it real goes wrong eh??

bandabou
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:30 AM
Ok deja entendu....whatever makes you happy. One thing I know is that the gap between Kim's defensive prowess and the sisters's defensive prowess is smaller than the gap between the sisters's offense and Kim's offense.

Dominic
Apr 23rd, 2005, 03:52 PM
Venus was playing at her best level in years in Miami?? You basing that solely on beating Serena?? Venus lost to Maria cause she hit up the middle and wasn't aggressive at all while Maria played a great match. I don't see where Kim has done a way better job of beating everyone else than Serena or Venus. Kim was off tour for most of 2004 and when she was on tour Serena and Venus were out injured. You sound very familiar though, sort of like a punk who would take a picture smoking a cigarette like a girl. Or use variations of a O or 0 to make up their username.

Are you kidding?! I dont think we're talking about the same match cause in the one I saw venus was very very agressive and the commentators said it as well. She had at least as many winners as Sharap if not more including like 7 or 8 return winners and many many forehand winners.

G_Slammed
Apr 23rd, 2005, 04:51 PM
No Knizzle is not kidding. He's right.. and anybody worth a dog damn who saw the match would agree with him. EXCEPT you that want and need to believe Venus Williams was playing the best she'd ever played in all her days as a professional player.. just to make Sharapova look better than what she really is.


So yes, Venus was "very, very aggressive" that day... very, very aggresively inconsistent.. that is.

bandabou
Apr 23rd, 2005, 05:06 PM
And of course Kim is gonna make life hell for Maria....I mean.....plenty of balls to run down, just waiting for the error..

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:14 PM
Dementieva's movement average!!! Are you out of your mind!?

Average for a top ten/twenty player is very very fast. Sharapova moves very well but has IMHO slightly below average movement. Sveta and Elena and Jen run like the wind, but are still slower by a step or two than the sisters, Kim and Myskina. If we are judging on a bell curve (as any average must) Dementieva is in the middle section of the top ten.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:16 PM
Venus and Serena are always "injured" to some of you when they lose. Venus made 2 more UFEs than winners against Maria, and hit twice as many winners as Maria. How on earth was Venus not aggressive? That's just ludicrus.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:19 PM
Okay and the sisters do not play defense better than Kim. Neither Serena nor Venus can slice effectively. Kim can. Neither Serena nor Venus can lob effectively. Kim can. Neither Serena nor Venus passes as well as Kim. Serena and Venus are better offensively, but Kim is clearly better at defense.

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:19 PM
Venus and Serena are always "injured" to some of you when they lose. Venus made 2 more UFEs than winners against Maria, and hit twice as many winners as Maria. How on earth was Venus not aggressive? That's just ludicrus.

I'd like to see the match stats to back this up. Venus wasn't aggressive off the ground. She had alot of SERVICE winners though.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:21 PM
Why is it that Venus and Serena can catch up to Kim's big shots more than Kim can catch up to theirs?

1. Kim doesn't hit big shots against the sisters.

2. Kim's biggest shots go about 80MPH. Venus/Serena's go between 90 and 95MPH.

3. The sisters have lost a few steps since the glory days, especially Serena.

bandabou
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:21 PM
mboyle.....that's the thing.....Kim might be a tad better than Serena or Venus defensively, while Serena and Venus are waaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Kim offensively and that's why she has such a hard time beating them.

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:22 PM
Okay and the sisters do not play defense better than Kim. Neither Serena nor Venus can slice effectively. Kim can. Neither Serena nor Venus can lob effectively. Kim can. Neither Serena nor Venus passes as well as Kim. Serena and Venus are better offensively, but Kim is clearly better at defense.

They both pass better than Kim, I rarely see Kim passing anyone on the dead run. She slices the ball. Serena and Venus get to shots and can hit a passing shot whereas Clijsters can't do anything but stab slice the ball back. Kim will definitely get the balls she reaches back over the net a few more times, but the sisters do more damage with their aggressive passing shots from defensive positions. They can slice also, but you're right it's usually not as effective as a slice from Kim.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:22 PM
I'd like to see the match stats to back this up. Venus wasn't aggressive off the ground. She had alot of SERVICE winners though.

http://www.nasdaq-100open.com/stats/Match13970.html
Venus came into net 12 times (pretty respectable.) Venus hit 17 groundstroke winners to Maria's 9. Venus' stats were as good as in 01/02 on a good day. Maria just matches up very very well against Venus.

bandabou
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:23 PM
1. Kim doesn't hit big shots against the sisters.

2. Kim's biggest shots go about 80MPH. Venus/Serena's go between 90 and 95MPH.

3. The sisters have lost a few steps since the glory days, especially Serena.

aaah....so only NOW that the sisters might have lost a step that Kim's become the fastest player....aah....now we're talking.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:26 PM
aaah....so only NOW that the sisters might have lost a step that Kim's become the fastest player....aah....now we're talking.

Yeah probably. Kim was just about as fast if not right there in 01/02. I think she did some serious off season training before oz 03, because she had sped up slightly by then. Serena's surgery CLEARLY has slowed her down quite a bit. Venus' movement is still good, but I think Kim is a step to a step and a half faster (not much, but...)

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:27 PM
1. Kim doesn't hit big shots against the sisters.

2. Kim's biggest shots go about 80MPH. Venus/Serena's go between 90 and 95MPH.

3. The sisters have lost a few steps since the glory days, especially Serena.

Kim does hit big shots against the sisters in the rallies, problem is that they decide to take initiative earlier in the point to end it. Venus and Serena can hit 90mph, but it will be on a short ball that they pound away, not a normal rally shot. In general Kim hits about as hard off the ground as Venus or Serena.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:28 PM
They both pass better than Kim, I rarely see Kim passing anyone on the dead run. She slices the ball. Serena and Venus get to shots and can hit a passing shot whereas Clijsters can't do anything but stab slice the ball back. Kim will definitely get the balls she reaches back over the net a few more times, but the sisters do more damage with their aggressive passing shots from defensive positions. They can slice also, but you're right it's usually not as effective as a slice from Kim.

The sisters miss more than 50% of those aggressive shots on the run. That's not smart tennis. Kim gets everyone back and puts enough slice/topspin on the ball and gets it deep enough so that her opponent can't hurt her. Sometimes she does crack the ball on the forehand side on the run, however.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:29 PM
Kim does hit big shots against the sisters in the rallies, problem is that they decide to take initiative earlier in the point to end it. Venus and Serena can hit 90mph, but it will be on a short ball that they pound away, not a normal rally shot. In general Kim hits about as hard off the ground as Venus or Serena.

that's not what the radar guns say, but whatever. Kim doesn't go for her shots against top players.

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:30 PM
http://www.nasdaq-100open.com/stats/Match13970.html
Venus came into net 12 times (pretty respectable.) Venus hit 17 groundstroke winners to Maria's 9. Venus' stats were as good as in 01/02 on a good day. Maria just matches up very very well against Venus.

Maybe Venus took away Maria's winners, but seemed like the ball was going past Venus more than Maria. Still Venus hit up the middle WAY too much and didn't go after Maria like she should. She was NOWHERE near her 2001/2002 level. She would have won if she was at that level IMO.

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:32 PM
The sisters miss more than 50% of those aggressive shots on the run. That's not smart tennis. Kim gets everyone back and puts enough slice/topspin on the ball and gets it deep enough so that her opponent can't hurt her. Sometimes she does crack the ball on the forehand side on the run, however.

You're exaggerating. The sisters don't always go for the aggressive shot and Kim doesn't get everyone back. A good amount of her slices catch the tape. Did you happen to observe Venus' last couple matches with Kim?

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:33 PM
mboyle.....that's the thing.....Kim might be a tad better than Serena or Venus defensively, while Serena and Venus are waaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Kim offensively and that's why she has such a hard time beating them.

She has a hard time beating them because she is mentally insane, I am convinced. I mean, everyone has a hard time with them anyway because they really are great, amazing players, but Kim shouldn't have as terrible a record against them as she does. She owns the rest of the tour excepting Juju (another mental problem), many of whom (like Sharapova and Davenport) match up very well against the sisters. That's one thing I really admire about them: they never give up and never count themselves out of a match against anyone. They both are so mentally tough and have so much self belief.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:35 PM
She was NOWHERE near her 2001/2002 level. She would have won if she was at that level IMO.

I'm not so sure. Maria matches up well against that style of play. Essentially, Maria=Venus w/ a forehand, just like Serena=Venus w/ a forehand. True, that wing was better in 01/02, but Maria loves having hitting contests with people. That is why she can beat the Sisters, Davenport, JHH and most of the Russians, but hates playing Myskina, Mauresmo and Kim.

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:38 PM
She has a hard time beating them because she is mentally insane, I am convinced. I mean, everyone has a hard time with them anyway because they really are great, amazing players, but Kim shouldn't have as terrible a record against them as she does. She owns the rest of the tour excepting Juju (another mental problem), many of whom (like Sharapova and Davenport) match up very well against the sisters. That's one thing I really admire about them: they never give up and never count themselves out of a match against anyone. They both are so mentally tough and have so much self belief.

I wish that last statement still rang true for Venus, but hopefully it will in the near future. Why would she have trouble mentally against the sisters and not the rest of the tour?? Or are you slighting those who own Kim??

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:38 PM
You're exaggerating. The sisters don't always go for the aggressive shot and Kim doesn't get everyone back. A good amount of her slices catch the tape. Did you happen to observe Venus' last couple matches with Kim?

True, they have stopped going for broke on the run. Kim's defense is still better and more varied. Her offense isn't as good, clearly, but that's just not her game. Her game consistently beats every player but 3. Venus and Serena can beat everyone, but can also lose on a given day to 10 or 20 people, and have trouble beating 2 or 3 at all (recently, not in the glory days.) Serena's going to win the slams, but Kim's going to win more points for my fantasy team;) .

bandabou
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:40 PM
Yeah probably. Kim was just about as fast if not right there in 01/02. I think she did some serious off season training before oz 03, because she had sped up slightly by then. Serena's surgery CLEARLY has slowed her down quite a bit. Venus' movement is still good, but I think Kim is a step to a step and a half faster (not much, but...)

Ok...

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:42 PM
I'm not so sure. Maria matches up well against that style of play. Essentially, Maria=Venus w/ a forehand, just like Serena=Venus w/ a forehand. True, that wing was better in 01/02, but Maria loves having hitting contests with people. That is why she can beat the Sisters, Davenport, JHH and most of the Russians, but hates playing Myskina, Mauresmo and Kim.

Maria doesn't equal Venus w/a forehand. Venus move way better than her and has a bigger serve and a vastly better net game. Venus doesn't have confidence right now which is why everyone is taking wins off of her. Myskina hits with Maria. Maria is not nearly producing the results of a Venus from her "glory days' as you call them.

bandabou
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:42 PM
She has a hard time beating them because she is mentally insane, I am convinced. I mean, everyone has a hard time with them anyway because they really are great, amazing players, but Kim shouldn't have as terrible a record against them as she does. She owns the rest of the tour excepting Juju (another mental problem), many of whom (like Sharapova and Davenport) match up very well against the sisters. That's one thing I really admire about them: they never give up and never count themselves out of a match against anyone. They both are so mentally tough and have so much self belief.

And that' s why specially Serena is my fav.....she will never never give up or think she can't beat somebody.

bandabou
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:44 PM
True, they have stopped going for broke on the run. Kim's defense is still better and more varied. Her offense isn't as good, clearly, but that's just not her game. Her game consistently beats every player but 3. Venus and Serena can beat everyone, but can also lose on a given day to 10 or 20 people, and have trouble beating 2 or 3 at all (recently, not in the glory days.) Serena's going to win the slams, but Kim's going to win more points for my fantasy team;) .

Serena ain't losing to 10 or 20 people....

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:44 PM
Look for Venus/Kim from Antwerp 05 on WOV in the coming days.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:44 PM
I wish that last statement still rang true for Venus, but hopefully it will in the near future. Why would she have trouble mentally against the sisters and not the rest of the tour?? Or are you slighting those who own Kim??

I can't tell you, but it's just something I've noticed. For example, in 03 in the San Diego finals, Kim kept looking at the ground and looked scared. Against Davenport, she looked like she knew she was going to win, and just went about her business. Against Serena in Oz, at 5-1 up Kim just froze and looked lost. Let's please avoid talking about her grand slam finals...:scared: I am not slighting JHH, Venus or Serena. I just don't think they should have a 13-3 record against Kim (starting with Juju's win over Serena in the FCC finals, which I believe altered the course of her career.) 13-8 I'd be comfortable with, but not 13-3.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:48 PM
Maria doesn't equal Venus w/a forehand. Venus move way better than her and has a bigger serve and a vastly better net game. Venus doesn't have confidence right now which is why everyone is taking wins off of her. Myskina hits with Maria. Maria is not nearly producing the results of a Venus from her "glory days' as you call them.

1. Movement: Venus is better, but Maria still gets to a lot of balls.

2. Serve: Maria's is better. Venus hits it harder, but doesn't place it well. Maria generally has a higher first serve percentage, and her second serve is infinitely better.

3. Net: Venus is better at net by a country mile.

4. Myskina doesn't hit as hard as Maria.

5. Maria a year ago wasn't a top twenty five player. Of course she isn't going to be winning quite as much as Venus of 00/01. I am confident that she'll hit her stride soon enough. There's too much money invested in her for her to fail.

mboyle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:50 PM
Serena ain't losing to 10 or 20 people....

She lost to Silvia Farina-Elia (I count that because she had match points and didn't win. I won't count Jelena Jankovic). She also lost to Venus. It's bad, bandabou, it's bad...Yes she won the Oz open, so she can still have a good week or two, but she's reverted to Wild thing, I fear:sad: .

Knizzle
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:52 PM
1. Movement: Venus is better, but Maria still gets to a lot of balls.

2. Serve: Maria's is better. Venus hits it harder, but doesn't place it well. Maria generally has a higher first serve percentage, and her second serve is infinitely better.

3. Net: Venus is better at net by a country mile.

4. Myskina doesn't hit as hard as Maria.

5. Maria a year ago wasn't a top twenty five player. Of course she isn't going to be winning quite as much as Venus of 00/01. I am confident that she'll hit her stride soon enough. There's too much money invested in her for her to fail.

But you claim for Maria to be better than Venus was then.

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2005, 12:06 AM
She lost to Silvia Farina-Elia (I count that because she had match points and didn't win. I won't count Jelena Jankovic). She also lost to Venus. It's bad, bandabou, it's bad...Yes she won the Oz open, so she can still have a good week or two, but she's reverted to Wild thing, I fear:sad: .

hmmm....the loss to Farina was just freaky imo...if she doesn't twist that ankle, she wins that....positive about that.

I don't think she' ll dominate again...but you really really really wanna have her on your side of any draw?

Aphrodite
Apr 24th, 2005, 12:36 AM
umgh In my opinion, the fastest ever on the tour was Amanda Coetzer and it has been proven in an article and the likes of Kim Clijsters who just this year at indian wells said in an interview that Amanda Coetzer was the the hardest working player, fastest player, also over the years watching Coetzer matches and hearing opponents such as graf,huber,hingis,seles, williams among others talk about amanda's speed with great respect.

As of the moment its either one of the Belgians, one of the Russians(Dementieva very impresive for size) or te Williams who took athletisism to a whole other level.

mboyle
Apr 24th, 2005, 01:27 AM
But you claim for Maria to be better than Venus was then.

technically she is. However, tennis is all about confidence. Venus in 00/01 had boatloads of it. She also had fewer players at her level. Maria hasn't found her confidence yet.

mboyle
Apr 24th, 2005, 01:28 AM
hmmm....the loss to Farina was just freaky imo...if she doesn't twist that ankle, she wins that....positive about that.

I don't think she' ll dominate again...but you really really really wanna have her on your side of any draw?

hell freakin no. She's so frustrating for me. I want so badly to put her on my Fantasy team, and then she blows it. Then I don't put her on my team, and she destroys someone on it:fiery: :p .

Knizzle
Apr 24th, 2005, 01:29 AM
technically she is. However, tennis is all about confidence. Venus in 00/01 had boatloads of it. She also had fewer players at her level. Maria hasn't found her confidence yet.

She had fewer at her level because she separated herself.

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2005, 02:18 AM
hell freakin no. She's so frustrating for me. I want so badly to put her on my Fantasy team, and then she blows it. Then I don't put her on my team, and she destroys someone on it:fiery: :p .

That's why she's Serena....she can make you happy or she can totally destroy you.