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**Jelica**
Apr 13th, 2005, 01:41 PM
I just thought to start this thread, cos I live in the UK, and all that is on tv and in the newspapers atm i about the General Election

Anyway, I don't get to vote :sad: so I guess it doesn't really matter who I support (but if I could vote, I'd vote Lib Dem) but what does everyone think? And if you're voting, who you vote for (if you don't mind to say, of course! :) )

creep
Apr 13th, 2005, 01:43 PM
I never vote, what's the point.:)

**Jelica**
Apr 13th, 2005, 01:53 PM
I never vote, what's the point.:)
I've never voted in my life..but only cos I was too young, lol, and I don't get to vote yet anyway, cos I'm not for long enough in the UK.

-Kieron-
Apr 13th, 2005, 01:58 PM
I never vote, what's the point.:)

Neither do I, tho I am not happy about Labour increasing Tuition Fees :fiery:

Avid Merrion
Apr 13th, 2005, 01:59 PM
floating voter here :) i've never made up my mind until i put the X on the paper, even then it's a lucky dip :lol:

Andy T
Apr 13th, 2005, 02:31 PM
I won't vote because even though I'm a British citizen, I don't pay taxes in the UK, so I don't think it would be ethical to cast a vote on how other people's money should be spent. If I were to vote, it would definitely be Lib Dem because I agree with almost all their central beliefs. I hope very much that they do well.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Apr 13th, 2005, 02:32 PM
Lib Dems!

Although not best buddies, I know my local MP

Monica_Rules
Apr 13th, 2005, 02:58 PM
I will be voting Lib Dem i think as will most people i know here at uni.I think anyway.

Someone said befor whats the point in voting? for 1 thing to make sure the conservatives never get back into the government and 2 to make sure Labour don't just do what they want.Lower their majority and they will have to tow the line a bit more.

The reason i'm going Lib Dem is because as someone said before they stand for most of my political beliefs. Strong views on the environment are willing to increase taxes in order to make schools,NHS even better9 i do think Labour have improved these though) pro europe. Not anti immigration. and of course will abolish top up fees.

Halardfan
Apr 13th, 2005, 03:31 PM
Im instinctively a Labour supporter and if one could just edit out the business of Iraq I would say that Labour have done a rather good job...

Sadly, the image of Blair's mutual admiration society with the loathsome GW Bush is so burned into my memory, that for the first time at a general election, I plan to vote Lib Dem.

Though if people live in a seat where its close between Labour and the Conservatives, I urge you to vote Labour....

Whatever our disappointment with Labour, rest assured that the Tories would be far far worse.

**Jelica**
Apr 13th, 2005, 04:30 PM
Sadly, the image of Blair's mutual admiration society with the loathsome GW Bush is so burned into my memory, that for the first time at a general election, I plan to vote Lib Dem.

Looks like Lib Dems will get alot of votes from ppl who normally vote Labour thx to Blair..

raquel
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:00 PM
I never vote, what's the point.:)
If I ever didn't know who to vote I would still vote because women literally died for other women to get the vote, so I'll always do it ;)

It's amazing how a lot of people still won't vote Tory because of Maggie Thatcher. The effect her Government had on a lot of northern cities like Glasgow and Liverpool in particular means she is still hated there. I don't think the Tories even have a seat in Scotland anymore.

Martian Willow
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:01 PM
I won't vote because even though I'm a British citizen, I don't pay taxes in the UK, so I don't think it would be ethical to cast a vote on how other people's money should be spent. If I were to vote, it would definitely be Lib Dem because I agree with almost all their central beliefs.

I didn't know they had any.

Martian Willow
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Looks like Lib Dems will get alot of votes from ppl who normally vote Labour thx to Blair..

When Michael Howard gets in, we'll know who to blame. :)

Grachka
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:17 PM
As long as the Conservatives don't get anywhere near the other side of the house, I am happy :) If when voting Liberal Democrats the chances of Tories not getting in didn't rise I would do so, but my constituency is too close to call between SNP and Tories, so I shall definately be posting for Annabelle Ewing's SNP ;)

Labour and especially Lib Dems are no where near the other two, and if the Tories get back in then I shall have to move. Plus, Annabelle lives in my village :)

Lord Nelson
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:19 PM
I guess i'm the only guy here who would vote for the conservatives. Lib democrats are the worst in my theory. But fortunately they won't win. Hopefully many of the labor electors will be split and will vote either for labor party or lib democrats lie you guys & conservatives will win. But of course many of you like me are not even British :)
In my opinion modern Britain has had 3 great leaders: Churchill, Thatcher & Blair. Churchill: there are too many good things to say about him. Thatcher: she helped weaken the labor unions and was tough on communism. Blair: Has helped Britain economically. In other words, I won't cry if Howard loses the elections.

Andy T
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:23 PM
I didn't know they had any.

Your honesty about your own ignorance is admirable. If at any time you care to find out what their policies are, there are plenty of sites on the net where the information is freely available.

Grachka
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:27 PM
I guess i'm the only guy here who would vote for the conservatives. Lib democrats are the worst in my theory. But fortunately they won't win. Hopefully many of the labor electors will be split and will vote either for labor party or lib democrats lie you guys & conservatives will win. But of course many of you like me are not even British :)
In my opinion modern Britain has had 3 great leaders: Churchill, Thatcher & Blair. Churchill: there are too many good things to say about him. Thatcher: she helped weaken the labor unions and was tough on communism. Blair: Has helped Britain economically. In other words, I won't cry if Howard loses the elections.
Unfortunately Thatcher was only a great leader for a tiny percentage of the country, whilst the rest (especially the north) she raped.

Thankfully, the Conservatives have absolutely no chance of getting in because a) everyone still remembers Thatcher and b) because they are going to run a campaign based excluding gypsies...so no chance :)

Pengwin
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:35 PM
I guess i'm the only guy here who would vote for the conservatives. Lib democrats are the worst in my theory. But fortunately they won't win. Hopefully many of the labor electors will be split and will vote either for labor party or lib democrats lie you guys & conservatives will win. But of course many of you like me are not even British :)
In my opinion modern Britain has had 3 great leaders: Churchill, Thatcher & Blair. Churchill: there are too many good things to say about him. Thatcher: she helped weaken the labor unions and was tough on communism. Blair: Has helped Britain economically. In other words, I won't cry if Howard loses the elections.


Do you honestly think Thatcher was a good leader? Well if you do then obviously you are not British. It is simply because of her that the Conservatives will always be a step behind the rest. The unemployment and the strife in the north was simply unacceptable. So what she was anti-communist? EVERYONE WAS.

There is no such party in Britain called 'labor', it's called 'New Labour'. It's unfortunate that they will lose a proportion of the voters to the Lib Dems (for war reasons) because as a whole most people are much happier now than they were four years ago.

I still think there will be a landslide victory for Labour though, simply because they are truthfully the most in touch with the people.

Martian Willow
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:39 PM
Your honesty about your own ignorance is admirable. If at any time you care to find out what their policies are, there are plenty of sites on the net where the information is freely available.

Oh, I'm sure they have policies, if not particularly interesting ones. I just don't think they have any core beliefs, beyond not being the other parties. They are a political party for people who don't like politicians, which may sound appealing, unless you can see through it to the obvious contradiction. :)

Circe
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:53 PM
am i right in assuming the result itself is a foregone conclusion?

New Labour in a canter. Oh wait, i'm supposed to predict that kind of thing. :D

Pengwin
Apr 13th, 2005, 05:57 PM
am i right in assuming the result itself is a foregone conclusion?

New Labour in a canter. Oh wait, i'm supposed to predict that kind of thing. :D


Yes, we all think that but it's better to be safe than sorry.

Pdm1987
Apr 13th, 2005, 06:05 PM
well I live in the constituency of Lichfield, and it's a foregone conclusion who will win here; Conservatives. I think I'd be voting Liberals at the election, but I'm going to give my first ever vote to Labour, as they are the only party with the slightest of chances to take the seat from the Tories, unfortunately on 6th May Lichfield will still be a Tory seat :(

Lord Nelson
Apr 13th, 2005, 07:02 PM
Do you honestly think Thatcher was a good leader? Well if you do then obviously you are not British. It is simply because of her that the Conservatives will always be a step behind the rest. The unemployment and the strife in the north was simply unacceptable. So what she was anti-communist? EVERYONE WAS.

There is no such party in Britain called 'labor', it's called 'New Labour'. It's unfortunate that they will lose a proportion of the voters to the Lib Dems (for war reasons) because as a whole most people are much happier now than they were four years ago.

I still think there will be a landslide victory for Labour though, simply because they are truthfully the most in touch with the people.
I'm not British but I have family living there & I go there regularly. Thatcher's economic policies helped Britain. She had a lousy personality ok but so what. I vote for a politician for his program not for his/her personality. What is so wrong in having conservatives in power. In Germany, conservatives have helped make Germany what it is today. Conservatives in Japan have continously being in power since 1945 & Japan is an economic power. I would vote for conservatives because they would be tough on crime & immigration. I have nothing against immigration. (I'm an immigrant myself). But Britain has looser immigration rules than any other nation in Europe and they allow Muslim extremism to proliferate. This I find strange especially since neo-Nazism is a big no no in Europe. Britain should do what France does.
The lib democrats are ok. Socially they are conservative. They believe in market economy unlike socialists. But socially they are very liberal. I like the labor party as it is under Blair. So for me the einner should be either labor or conservatives.

K.U.C.W-R.V
Apr 13th, 2005, 07:12 PM
The Lib Dems are a soppy EU-loving disgrace, Tony Blair is ok but his Labour party are a set of disfunctional, repressed (& not so repressed) socialists.

I'll vote Conservative because they are willing to take a stand against yob culture, further European integration, unfettered immigration, & our pathetic politically correct culture.

The Tories espouse populist, common-sense policies but I just wish they didnt look and sound like a bunch of spoilt public schoolboys.

DevilishAttitude
Apr 13th, 2005, 07:17 PM
I don't care really. I hate Tony Blair since he's a lying bastard.

Michael Howard though seems a little untrustworthy so if I could vote I'd vote Lib Dems.

My family are very Labour but are not fans of Blair anymore although they hate the Tories bad cos of Thatcher. Why is such a hated person though have her party through 18 years. They must have done something right.

Personally though I want anyone but Blair :)

NFFC_FAN
Apr 13th, 2005, 07:22 PM
The Lib Dems are a soppy EU-loving disgrace, Tony Blair is ok but his Labour party are a set of disfunctional, repressed (& not so repressed) socialists.

I'll vote Conservative because they are willing to take a stand against yob culture, further European integration, unfettered immigration, & our pathetic politically correct culture.

The Tories espouse populist, common-sense policies but I just wish they didnt look and sound like a bunch of spoilt public schoolboys.

I pretty much go with that.

I'm no political expert, but what do people have against the Conservatives??

In my opinion, Labour have done nothing of benefit for this country, and the Liberal Democrats can just make wishy washy promises because realistically they'll never get in.

But whatever, it's looking a pretty safe bet (in fact some bookies have stopped already) that Labour will win.

Martian Willow
Apr 13th, 2005, 07:44 PM
I pretty much go with that.

I'm no political expert, but what do people have against the Conservatives??

Um...3 million unemployed (or more, considering they used to 'massage' the figures, which the current government do not), double figure interest rates, the miners strike, the poll tax (Michael Howards idea), Black Wednesday, privatisation and general destruction of our manufacturing industry...I could go on...if you weren't there I guess you have no idea how bad it was...but, it was bad...far, far worse than it is now. :)

But I'm biased. :p

!<blocparty>!
Apr 13th, 2005, 08:05 PM
It's going to be abother Labour landslide again, closer than last time, though. I'll be voting for the green party, even though they wont get in around here. It's a Lempit Opik area :)

The rich will be getting richer, poor, poorer.

Martian Willow
Apr 13th, 2005, 08:07 PM
Lembit Opik has a silly name.

!<blocparty>!
Apr 13th, 2005, 08:10 PM
Yes, and I can't even spell it correctly.

He's dating Sian Lloyd the weather woman. My friends mum decorated their house, I've even been there. How amazing is that?

OUT!
Apr 13th, 2005, 08:21 PM
Like some others, never have voted and never will vote.

K.U.C.W-R.V
Apr 13th, 2005, 08:38 PM
Lembit Opik has a silly name.

Silly name, very silly person.

K.U.C.W-R.V
Apr 13th, 2005, 10:30 PM
Um...3 million unemployed (or more, considering they used to 'massage' the figures, which the current government do not), double figure interest rates, the miners strike, the poll tax (Michael Howards idea), Black Wednesday, privatisation and general destruction of our manufacturing industry...I could go on...if you weren't there I guess you have no idea how bad it was...but, it was bad...far, far worse than it is now. :)

But I'm biased. :p

Strike-ridden Britain was dying on its arse in 1979, by the time Thatcher left in 1990 Britain was again an economic success story.

Thatcher dealt out very tough medicine but it was desperately needed...why has Labour not repealed Conservative trade union reforms & renationalised everything?

Pengwin
Apr 13th, 2005, 10:34 PM
Strike-ridden Britain was dying on its arse in 1979, by the time Thatcher left in 1990 Britain was again an economic success story.

Thatcher dealt out very tough medicine but it was desperately needed...why has Labour not repealed Conservative trade union reforms & renationalised everything?

Come on, who are you kidding here? The economic success was because of global economic growth, not because of Thatcher.

ClareBalding
Apr 13th, 2005, 10:39 PM
In my opinion, Labour have done nothing of benefit for this country

Minimum wage? Low unemployment? Lowering pensioner poverty? <which Virginia Wade enjoyed>

All irrelevant I suppose as I'm voting for The Horse Party.

Pengwin
Apr 13th, 2005, 10:42 PM
Minimum wage? Low unemployment? Lowering pensioner poverty? <which Virginia Wade enjoyed>

All irrelevant I suppose as I'm voting for The Horse Party.

:worship:

I desperately hope this election will be fought on the topic of the Economy, because we really do have a lot to thank Labour for in this area.

mboyle
Apr 13th, 2005, 10:46 PM
Go Tories! Save Britain from liberalism and European sloth!

mboyle
Apr 13th, 2005, 10:50 PM
Come on, who are you kidding here? The economic success was because of global economic growth, not because of Thatcher.

The global economy did not grow. The Rest of Europe's economy wasn't anywhere near England's. All growth was due to US growth anyway. The US Economy grew as a direct result of Ronald Reagan's kicking the democrats into the gutter and making them irrelevant. With them out of the picture, US taxes were reduced from 70% to 28% on the highest bracket, leading to an unprecedented amount of new investment in new companies. As a direct result of conservative fiscal policies, we now have personal computers, CDs, walkmans and many of the other electronic gadgets that we today take for granted. Thatcher killed liberal silliness in England that y'all might benefit from Reagan's intelligence, which would have been impossible if your wealthy had to pay all of their money to Parliament.

Pengwin
Apr 13th, 2005, 10:52 PM
The global economy did not grow. The Rest of Europe's economy wasn't anywhere near England's. All growth was due to US growth anyway. The US Economy grew as a direct result of Ronald Reagan's kicking the democrats into the gutter and making them irrelevant. With them out of the picture, US taxes were reduced from 70% to 28% on the highest bracket, leading to an unprecedented amount of new investment in new companies. As a direct result of conservative fiscal policies, we now have personal computers, CDs, walkmans and many of the other electronic gadgets that we today take for granted. Thatcher killed liberal silliness in England that y'all might benefit from Reagan's intelligence, which would have been impossible if your wealthy had to pay all of their money to Parliament.

You know what, I have no reply to that...:rolleyes:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Apr 13th, 2005, 11:36 PM
I'm voting Conservatives. I don't want Labour getting in again and I think that Conservatives are Labour's biggest threat.

Go Conservatives :woohoo: :yeah: :lol:

Kart
Apr 13th, 2005, 11:46 PM
I've never voted but may well do this time - I remember how unhappy people were when John Major was in power and the Conservatives are worse now than then IMHO.

I may not have agreed with tuition fees when I was a student but I'm not anymore :p and for me, the way that the Conservatives have approached the asylum seeker issue has made me want not want to see them in power at the moment.

So if I do vote, it will probably be Labour ... Lib Dems are ok but voting for them seems a bit pointless to me because they're not going to win :shrug:. I guess they're just the alternative to both but I don't think the current government is that bad.

Monica_Rules
Apr 14th, 2005, 12:22 AM
The conservatives drove this contry into the ground by 1997 we were a mess.

The NHS was about to colapse thanx to inadequate budgets for years. So many industries have been ruined thanx to Maggie Thatcher and being from Wales the coal industry is a major one and the steel industry by now.Trains have gone crap since the whole system was privitised.

Going back to a right wing Conservative government would be a major step back for this country going the same way as the USA has by re electing Bush.

I do look forward to the day when the Lib Dems either are the government or are the opposition cos it will happen within 20 years.The country is becoming more and more liberal and people are continuing to loose faith in both the main parties.I hope the Lib Dems will get 60+ seats this time and the Tories dont go over 200.

Lord Nelson
Apr 14th, 2005, 01:04 AM
The conservatives drove this contry into the ground by 1997 we were a mess.

The NHS was about to colapse thanx to inadequate budgets for years. So many industries have been ruined thanx to Maggie Thatcher and being from Wales the coal industry is a major one and the steel industry by now.Trains have gone crap since the whole system was privatized.

Going back to a right wing Conservative government would be a major step back for this country going the same way as the USA has by re electing Bush.

I do look forward to the day when the Lib Dems either are the government or are the opposition cos it will happen within 20 years.The country is becoming more and more liberal and people are continuing to loose faith in both the main parties.I hope the Lib Dems will get 60+ seats this time and the Tories dont go over 200.
Oh please, where is the proof that Britain went through an economic slump by 1997? What BS. You just chose that date because that's when Labor party came to power. By the way, the libs will never come to power. Lloyd George will be their only PM. So a few industries were shut down in Wales? That does not necessarily mean that the economy went downhill.

oh, one more thing. The lib democrats believe in privatization like the conservatives. Don't forget that they are a centrist party. So if you thought that Britain was going downhill under conservatives than why are you for the liberals?

Howard in Australia and Bush were re-elected. I hope Michael Howard gets his day too. I convinced my British aunt to vote for him :)

mboyle
Apr 14th, 2005, 04:15 AM
Going back to a right wing Conservative government would be a major step back for this country going the same way as the USA has by re electing Bush.

The week after Bush was re-elected, the DJIA gained something like 1000 points...We have now had 19 consecutive months of job growth. We are finally starting to cut our budgets. The War in Iraq is going well. Osama Bin Laden pleaded with us to make peace and elect Kerry. SAT scores have gone up, possibly a result of better school funding (not more money, but smarter money.) What history has asserted is that a country's economy can never stay the same. Liberals want everything to stay the same, generally. For example, you were complaining that Thatcher caused industries (such as coal mining) to collapse. If you study economics in history, that is the best thing a country could hope for. Without such collapses, nothing could improve because there would be no need to find new technologies to cultivate. Essentially, liberal policy is mercentalism, a policy deemed completely asinine 200 years ago. Mercentalism believes that a country's best economic interests lie in guarding what it has and preventing all outside competition. By trying to protect the coal industry, for example, the British government would A: be denying jobs to emerging economies elsewhere in the world and B: be denying better jobs to future generations (come on, who really wants to mine coal?) by providing life support to an alreardy defunct industry. This life support drains valuable resources away from fledgling companies and technologies, which historically have always produced better paying jobs in better working conditions. It is hard to watch something die, but, by delaying such a death, you hinder the cycle of life.

Sian Lloyd
Apr 14th, 2005, 07:42 AM
So a few industries were shut down in Wales? That does not necessarily mean that the economy went downhill.


How charming. You fail to spot that some areas of South Wales, which thanks to the Tories, became the poorest areas in the whole of Europe.

Sian Lloyd
Apr 14th, 2005, 07:48 AM
Lembit Opik has a silly name.


Leave my bloke alone ;)

creep
Apr 14th, 2005, 11:36 AM
If I ever didn't know who to vote I would still vote because women literally died for other women to get the vote, so I'll always do it ;)

It's amazing how a lot of people still won't vote Tory because of Maggie Thatcher. The effect her Government had on a lot of northern cities like Glasgow and Liverpool in particular means she is still hated there. I don't think the Tories even have a seat in Scotland anymore.

So you would vote for someone you didn't wish to, just for votings sake?:)

creep
Apr 14th, 2005, 11:46 AM
Like some others, never have voted and never will vote.

I doesn’t matter who gets in. Nothing ever changes for the working man. Just when you think you have clawed your way to the top of the mountain, some bugger is waiting to stand on your fingers. None keep to the manifestos they ever generate via an election. Have you ever tried to get a local representative to get of his/hers arse and tackle any matters that may be relevant to you? They don’t give a shit.

It’s not apathy with voters, it’s just plain cynicism, because neither elected party has ever implemented what they told you they were going to do in the first place.

Just look at Johnny two jags, working class union man? My arse!

creep
Apr 14th, 2005, 11:47 AM
Leave my bloke alone ;)


Weather forecaster my arse! You couldn’t tell the time if someone gave you a Rolex watch.

Lord Nelson
Apr 14th, 2005, 12:43 PM
Weather forecaster my arse! You couldn’t tell the time if someone gave you a Rolex watch.
You can quote me on that too. :lol:

Cassius
Apr 14th, 2005, 02:16 PM
It would be good if a right wing party like the BNP, Veritas or UKIP got more votes than expected, because that would force the big 3 to actually DO something instead of sitting around TALKING about what they're going to do.
Not that I wish any of the 3 I mentioned to get seats anywhere, but I think it would give the apathetic non-voters a good fucking kick up the arse.

**Jelica**
Apr 14th, 2005, 05:28 PM
It would be good if a right wing party like the BNP, Veritas or UKIP got more votes than expected, because that would force the big 3 to actually DO something instead of sitting around TALKING about what they're going to do.
Not that I wish any of the 3 I mentioned to get seats anywhere, but I think it would give the apathetic non-voters a good fucking kick up the arse.
BNP freak me out a bit, I've seen too much of that kinda stuff and I don't wanna see it happening here!

What d'u guys think about Tony Blair btw? Would you prefer if Gordon Brown was PM than Blair?

Pengwin
Apr 14th, 2005, 05:37 PM
BNP freak me out a bit, I've seen too much of that kinda stuff and I don't wanna see it happening here!

What d'u guys think about Tony Blair btw? Would you prefer if Gordon Brown was PM than Blair?

I would personally prefer Gordon Brown and think that he would make Labour's election majority even greater. Either way though I think Tony Blair is a great leader as well and will do great things for us in the next four years.

Cassius
Apr 14th, 2005, 06:27 PM
BNP freak me out a bit, I've seen too much of that kinda stuff and I don't wanna see it happening here!
Yes, I don't want the BNP etc. to get any seats, but if they did it would make the big 3 sit up and take notice, so the politics might actually improve.

K.U.C.W-R.V
Apr 14th, 2005, 07:02 PM
Come on, who are you kidding here? The economic success was because of global economic growth, not because of Thatcher.

Economic growth in large part kickstarted by deregulation, lower taxes & privatisations of public utilities.

The British economic system was an inefficient mix of capitalism & socialism until the 1980s. New Labour is a product of Thatcher's economic success.

I really dont think you know what you are talking about.

Pdm1987
Apr 14th, 2005, 08:16 PM
Here's a little questionnaire which suggests which party you'd be voting for

http://www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com/

Pdm1987
Apr 14th, 2005, 08:17 PM
I got

Lib Dems 16
Greens 2
Labour 0
UKIP - 8
Condervative -20

:)

Pengwin
Apr 14th, 2005, 08:20 PM
Labour 12
Conservative -59
Liberal Democrat 74
UK Independence Party -39
Green 17

No surprises there but in real life I would vote for Labour as my constituancy is a Labour-Conservative battle ground.

Andy T
Apr 14th, 2005, 09:31 PM
No big surprises:

Lib Dem 78
Green 29
*******
UKIP -2
Labour -15
Conservative -53

raquel
Apr 14th, 2005, 09:32 PM
So you would vote for someone you didn't wish to, just for votings sake?:)
No I do always have someone I want to vote for. It's not a case of just picking someone to vote at random. I just think when you consider women died for other women to get the vote you should at least maybe try and read a few policies, even for a few minutes, and make a vote.

I am sure by the year 2005 women would have had the vote anyway but I just think what those women did was so admirable. I can't imagine what it would have been like to not have your point of view heard simply because you were born female.

Pengwin
Apr 14th, 2005, 09:47 PM
Yes, I don't want the BNP etc. to get any seats, but if they did it would make the big 3 sit up and take notice, so the politics might actually improve.

We have FPTP in Britain rather than PR that they have in Switzerland etc. so if the BNP were to get any number of seats it would be completely fucked up.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Apr 14th, 2005, 09:58 PM
The week after Bush was re-elected, the DJIA gained something like 1000 points...We have now had 19 consecutive months of job growth. We are finally starting to cut our budgets. The War in Iraq is going well. Osama Bin Laden pleaded with us to make peace and elect Kerry. SAT scores have gone up, possibly a result of better school funding (not more money, but smarter money.) What history has asserted is that a country's economy can never stay the same. Liberals want everything to stay the same, generally. For example, you were complaining that Thatcher caused industries (such as coal mining) to collapse. If you study economics in history, that is the best thing a country could hope for. Without such collapses, nothing could improve because there would be no need to find new technologies to cultivate. Essentially, liberal policy is mercentalism, a policy deemed completely asinine 200 years ago. Mercentalism believes that a country's best economic interests lie in guarding what it has and preventing all outside competition. By trying to protect the coal industry, for example, the British government would A: be denying jobs to emerging economies elsewhere in the world and B: be denying better jobs to future generations (come on, who really wants to mine coal?) by providing life support to an alreardy defunct industry. This life support drains valuable resources away from fledgling companies and technologies, which historically have always produced better paying jobs in better working conditions. It is hard to watch something die, but, by delaying such a death, you hinder the cycle of life.
SAT scores have remained at a constant level.

Osama Bin Laden said to vote for Kerry? That's a lie.

DJIA always goes up the week after a Prez election.


Your post has a lot of lies and untruths in it.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Apr 14th, 2005, 10:02 PM
I had no idea Thatcher was so hated in Britian :eek: In America she comes off as England's saving grace!


I have no idea about British politics, but I'm pulling for the Liberal Dems to win as they seem the most liberal ;) Here were my results

Labour -22
Conservative -65
Liberal Dem 98
UK Independence -6
Green 43

K.U.C.W-R.V
Apr 14th, 2005, 11:02 PM
Conservative +71
UKIP + 23
Labour -2
Green -25
Liberal Democrat -82


Was particularly proud of my -82 Lib Dem score...reassuring.

Avid Merrion
Apr 14th, 2005, 11:07 PM
i've decided to vote for whoever puts the least crap through my letterbox on the build up to the election :lol: not the greatest way to decide, but it's pretty much a given who wins our seat :p

Scotso
Apr 15th, 2005, 04:28 AM
I assume Lib Dems are your socialists? Can someone give me an overview of the main parties... I only know the Labour Party and the Conservatives.

I just want the Labour party to lose, even if it has to be to the conservatives. Blair is an annoying little Bush puppet in liberal clothing and needs to go!

Scotso
Apr 15th, 2005, 04:35 AM
Labour 0
Conservative -93
Liberal Democrat 126
UK Independence Party -36
Green 57


You should vote: Liberal Democrat

The LibDems take a strong stand against tax cuts and a strong one in favour of public services: they would make long-term residential care for the elderly free across the UK, and scrap university tuition fees. They are in favour of a ban on smoking in public places, but would relax laws on cannabis. They propose to change vehicle taxation to be based on usage rather than ownership.


I guess they are socialists ;)

mboyle
Apr 15th, 2005, 05:22 AM
SAT scores have remained at a constant level.

Osama Bin Laden said to vote for Kerry? That's a lie.

DJIA always goes up the week after a Prez election.


Your post has a lot of lies and untruths in it.

SAT scores always go up slightly. Osama bin Laden said voting for Kerry is voting to assure our safety. That was not a lie. I would check the DJIA statistics. Shareholders knew that Kerry was going to steal their money. I'm sure they were pretty relieved to hear that he was going back to the Senate where he couldn't hurt them.

mboyle
Apr 15th, 2005, 05:24 AM
Oh to the socialists: note how socialism has now officially been proven to fail in comparison to pure capitalism.:wavey: BTW I took that test. Apparently the English torries don't believe in liberty because they want people to carry around the ID card things. I thought that was the labour party, oops. Oh and they back greater policing too. WTF? The government is there to prevent total chaos, not to micromanage society.

Grachka
Apr 15th, 2005, 09:57 AM
It will be interesting (in my rather biased opinion! :p) to see what happens in Scotland this year. The boundary changes are quite bad news for Labour, and they are expected to automatically start with a handicap of losing 10 seats or so, SNP (Nationalists) are expected to lose one of their five at least, the Tories lose their only seat initially too. However, there are LOADS of marginal seats, and if they all go one particular way then the SNP could lose all but one of their's, with the Tories the main beneficiaries.

The SNP's situation is the most crucial. Their overall performance will determine the course of constitutional debate in the coming years. They now have a trusted, respected and talented leader in Alex Salmond back as their leader, but if they don't at least get their vote count up (which seems unlikely on the back of unflattering polls) it could be their death knell. They have to defend a couple of very questionable majorities (one being Perth, my constituency). However, there was a poll the other day saying that 46% of Scots supported independence from Britain, whilst 39% opposed it (the rest undecided). That's one of the few times in history that a majority in a poll supported this idea...and it will be interesting if that reflects on the SNP vote.

Cassius
Apr 15th, 2005, 02:35 PM
We have FPTP in Britain rather than PR that they have in Switzerland etc.
What does FPTP and PR stand for?
What's Switzerland got to do with anything?

Cassius
Apr 15th, 2005, 02:41 PM
My results from that quiz:

Labour: +2
Tories: -15
Lib Dem: +34
UKIP: +9
Green: +30

Not a suprise. I'm not decided yet whether to vote for Lib Dem or the Greens.

Monica_Rules
Apr 15th, 2005, 03:17 PM
FPTP= 1st past the post.The one with the most votes wins

PR- Proportional representaion. The % of the vote of each party becomes the % of seats they get in the houses of parliment.

In the quiz i got 92 Lib Dem with Greens second Conservatives was -50 UKIP -30

So its basically what i am prob gonna do

Cassius
Apr 15th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Thanks Monica_Rules.

So in Britain we don't have a 'Most votes wins' system, because not too long ago, either the Tories or Labour had the most votes from the people, but the other had won more constituencies (sp?), and so had more MPs in Parliament.

Our system is stupid, it should just be 'Most votes wins'. That's simple and easy.

Pengwin
Apr 15th, 2005, 05:34 PM
Thanks Monica_Rules.

So in Britain we don't have a 'Most votes wins' system, because not too long ago, either the Tories or Labour had the most votes from the people, but the other had won more constituencies (sp?), and so had more MPs in Parliament.

Our system is stupid, it should just be 'Most votes wins'. That's simple and easy.

No, because we are not as centralised as the small countries that use PR. Each constituancy is run differently and if we had PR then they would have less power.

creep
Apr 15th, 2005, 07:12 PM
No I do always have someone I want to vote for. It's not a case of just picking someone to vote at random. I just think when you consider women died for other women to get the vote you should at least maybe try and read a few policies, even for a few minutes, and make a vote.

I am sure by the year 2005 women would have had the vote anyway but I just think what those women did was so admirable. I can't imagine what it would have been like to not have your point of view heard simply because you were born female.

Nobody ever listens to my point of view, and I'm male. They let on they do, but they don't give a monkeys what I think. Well that's the politicians I have come across. Theyre just a bunch of users - period.

Martian Willow
Apr 15th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Oh to the socialists: note how socialism has now officially been proven to fail in comparison to pure capitalism.:wavey: BTW I took that test. Apparently the English torries don't believe in liberty because they want people to carry around the ID card things. I thought that was the labour party, oops. Oh and they back greater policing too. WTF? The government is there to prevent total chaos, not to micromanage society.

That seems unlikely, since there has never been a pure socialist or pure capitalist state. You need to develop a greater awareness of the real world rather than reheating right wing propaganda before people will take you seriously. :)

Ditto Lord Nelson: no point trying to rewrite history for the benefit of people who actually lived through it.

creep
Apr 15th, 2005, 08:34 PM
Out of curiosity sake, would anybody vote for me if I stood as an election candidate?

Andy T
Apr 15th, 2005, 10:00 PM
That seems unlikely, since there has never been a pure socialist or pure capitalist state. You need to develop a greater awareness of the real world rather than reheating right wing propaganda before people will take you seriously. :)

Ditto Lord Nelson: no point trying to rewrite history for the benefit of people who actually lived through it.

:worship:

K.U.C.W-R.V
Apr 15th, 2005, 11:52 PM
That seems unlikely, since there has never been a pure socialist or pure capitalist state. You need to develop a greater awareness of the real world rather than reheating right wing propaganda before people will take you seriously. :)

Ditto Lord Nelson: no point trying to rewrite history for the benefit of people who actually lived through it.

How old are you?....are you seriously trying to contend that socialism can produce a healthy prosperous society. Off your head mate.

Compare Britain circa 1979 with Britain in 1990. I'd like you to explain why the UK was so fuct in the late 1970s & so prosperous in the 1990s.

Pengwin
Apr 16th, 2005, 12:01 AM
How old are you?....are you seriously trying to contend that socialism can produce a healthy prosperous society. Off your head mate.

Compare Britain circa 1979 with Britain in 1990. I'd like you to explain why the UK was so fuct in the late 1970s & so prosperous in the 1990s.


Global economic growth.

Martian Willow
Apr 16th, 2005, 12:14 AM
How old are you?....are you seriously trying to contend that socialism can produce a healthy prosperous society. Off your head mate.

Compare Britain circa 1979 with Britain in 1990. I'd like you to explain why the UK was so fuct in the late 1970s & so prosperous in the 1990s.

Sorry...what has that got to do with my post? :confused:

Scotso
Apr 16th, 2005, 02:55 AM
Pure socialism has never been tried.... so let's give it a whirl.

Halardfan
Apr 16th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Britain actually needs a more propotional voting system...the Tories benefited from our unfair sytem back in the 80's and now Labour does...they reckon the tories will need to win by 10% just to get a one seat majority!

To elect the Conservatives would mean disaster...thye have opposed virtually all the progressive polices of the Labour government, for example the minimum wage, which they insisted would cause mass unemployment, they were simply wrong on this as on so many other things.

On immigration too, the Tories appeal to the very worst in people, the selfish, narrow minded, plain stupid, and Labour frankly haven't had the guts to stand up to them and their foolish 'Daily Mail' world view.

Pengwin
Apr 16th, 2005, 12:45 PM
Britain actually needs a more propotional voting system...the Tories benefited from our unfair sytem back in the 80's and now Labour does...they reckon the tories will need to win by 10% just to get a one seat majority!

To elect the Conservatives would mean disaster...thye have opposed virtually all the progressive polices of the Labour government, for example the minimum wage, which they insisted would cause mass unemployment, they were simply wrong on this as on so many other things.

On immigration too, the Tories appeal to the very worst in people, the selfish, narrow minded, plain stupid, and Labour frankly haven't had the guts to stand up to them and their foolish 'Daily Mail' world view.

Not many people know this, but the Daily Mail openly supported the Holocaust until the war began.

Liberal Democrats would benefit hugely with a proportional representation system, but so would UKIP, Veritas and BNP.

Andy T
Apr 16th, 2005, 12:45 PM
Britain actually needs a more propotional voting system...the Tories benefited from our unfair sytem back in the 80's and now Labour does...they reckon the tories will need to win by 10% just to get a one seat majority!

To elect the Conservatives would mean disaster...thye have opposed virtually all the progressive polices of the Labour government, for example the minimum wage, which they insisted would cause mass unemployment, they were simply wrong on this as on so many other things.

On immigration too, the Tories appeal to the very worst in people, the selfish, narrow minded, plain stupid, and Labour frankly haven't had the guts to stand up to them and their foolish 'Daily Mail' world view.
:worship:

K.U.C.W-R.V
Apr 16th, 2005, 01:34 PM
Global economic growth.

...kickstarted in large part by the ditching of mixed economics & the widespread embracing of free-market economic policies - led by Reagan in America & Thatcher in Britain. Indisputable.

Obviously I will admit that technological advancements in the 1980s likewise played an important role.

However, there has been no return in Britain or America to the interventionist-tax & spend economic policies of the 1970s...because they produced stagnant economies. Clinton & Blair spoke/speak with the comforting voice of a progressive-liberal but both basically followed the conservative economic principles of the 1980s.

Lord Nelson
Apr 16th, 2005, 01:35 PM
On immigration too, the Tories appeal to the very worst in people, the selfish, narrow minded, plain stupid, and Labour frankly haven't had the guts to stand up to them and their foolish 'Daily Mail' world view.
What do you mean? Did you know that Britain's immigration rules are less strict than any major European nation. So does that mean that those countries are palin stupid etc...I'm for immigration but I think that it should be aorund the same wavelengths as those of other European nations. Also you're acting as if the tories are an extreme party. Anyway, the labour party has been in power for many years. It's time for conservative party to come back to power.

Martian Willow
Apr 16th, 2005, 02:23 PM
No, they had 18 years and Labour have only had 8, so we need another decade to even things up. Then the Lib Dems can have a turn. :p

Grachka
Apr 16th, 2005, 02:24 PM
What do you mean? Did you know that Britain's immigration rules are less strict than any major European nation. So does that mean that those countries are palin stupid etc...I'm for immigration but I think that it should be aorund the same wavelengths as those of other European nations. Also you're acting as if the tories are an extreme party. Anyway, the labour party has been in power for many years. It's time for conservative party to come back to power.
If the shoe fits...:tape:

Martian Willow
Apr 16th, 2005, 02:27 PM
Ten more years of Gordon.

http://www.ananova.com/images/web/49819.jpg

:hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

:)

Halardfan
Apr 16th, 2005, 02:46 PM
Lord Nelson, about immigration, take what the Tories said about the guy who was an illegal immigrant who turned out to be a terrorist, the way they looked to exploit the case, to whisper about how many more immigrants were secretly terrorists etc...

That kind of politics, which feeds on fear and paranoia, is best left to the insane likes of the BNP.

Again, Labour has pandered to such tendancies far too much, sought to buy off the likes of 'The Sun' and 'Daily Mail' who are the natural enemies of anything progressive or reasonable.

The Tories are fighting dirty, but partly thanks to our system, I don't think they can win.

About a more proportional system...I agree that it might help some of the fringe parties on the right, but also on the left, there would be room for and old-Labour kinda party and indeed the Greens...

Under some form of PR, I actually suspect that liberal parties would have a natural, lasting majority in this country...

Kart
Apr 16th, 2005, 02:56 PM
Lord Nelson, about immigration, take what the Tories said about the guy who was an illegal immigrant who turned out to be a terrorist, the way they looked to exploit the case, to whisper about how many more immigrants were secretly terrorists etc...

That kind of politics, which feeds on fear and paranoia, is best left to the insane likes of the BNP.

Again, Labour has pandered to such tendancies far too much, sought to buy off the likes of 'The Sun' and 'Daily Mail' who are the natural enemies of anything progressive or reasonable.


:worship: :worship: :worship:

Monica_Rules
Apr 16th, 2005, 06:22 PM
I think the most funny thing is under the tories immigration plans Michael Howard wouldn't even be in this country :lol:

creep
Apr 16th, 2005, 07:01 PM
Don't vote it's a waste of time.:)

creep
Apr 16th, 2005, 07:05 PM
Ten more years of Gordon.

http://www.ananova.com/images/web/49819.jpg

:hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

:)


His skill as chancellor of the exchequer, is as good as yours at accumulating vcash.:)

You have a thing for him, don't ya! lol

Pengwin
Apr 16th, 2005, 07:06 PM
His skill as chancellor of the exchequer, is as good as yours at accumulating vcash.:)

You have a thing for him, don't ya! lol

Lowest unemployment rate and inflation for 30+ years.

creep
Apr 16th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Lowest unemployment rate and inflation for 30+ years.

Yeah, tell that to the workers at Rover!

creep
Apr 16th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Lowest unemployment rate and inflation for 30+ years.


I forgot to add. It was a little piece of levity I was having with Willow. And when/if she responded she would understand.:) ...and you ruined it. ;):)

Personally I don't give a fiddlers who gets elected.

Pengwin
Apr 17th, 2005, 08:13 AM
Yeah, tell that to the workers at Rover!

There are 150,000 unfilled jobs in the midlands area.

gentenaire
Apr 17th, 2005, 10:09 AM
This is histerically funny and sad at the same time. The softer tories have to hide their soft side in order to fit in.

Apparently it was revealed last week that one of the Tori candidates altered a photo of himself holding a sign, in order to fall in line with the hardline stance on immigration of his party. The real photo is on the left. He was campaigning for a certain asylum seeking family to stay. In order to conform to the anti-asylum policy of the Tories, he altered the picture.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/election2005/archives/archives/mattsblog.jpg

Quite embarassing that it came out. Now people are encouraged to come up with more altered versions of the picture.

The 'family to support' one is brilliant! Check it out in the gallery:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,9352,1457954,00.html

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/election2005/archives/2005/04/12/you_can_do_better_than_this.html

gentenaire
Apr 17th, 2005, 10:27 AM
Labour 0
Conservative -93
Liberal Democrat 126
UK Independence Party -36
Green 57


You should vote: Liberal Democrat

The LibDems take a strong stand against tax cuts and a strong one in favour of public services: they would make long-term residential care for the elderly free across the UK, and scrap university tuition fees. They are in favour of a ban on smoking in public places, but would relax laws on cannabis. They propose to change vehicle taxation to be based on usage rather than ownership.


I guess they are socialists ;)

No, they're not. LAbour is the socialist part. Liberal in Europe has a different meaning than liberal in the US. Here liberal refers to freedom, free market (opposite of socialists!), less government involvement, etc. And also more freedom socially, so they're generally fairly progressive.

flyingmachine
Apr 17th, 2005, 01:26 PM
Britain actually needs a more propotional voting system...the Tories benefited from our unfair sytem back in the 80's and now Labour does...they reckon the tories will need to win by 10% just to get a one seat majority!

To elect the Conservatives would mean disaster...thye have opposed virtually all the progressive polices of the Labour government, for example the minimum wage, which they insisted would cause mass unemployment, they were simply wrong on this as on so many other things.

On immigration too, the Tories appeal to the very worst in people, the selfish, narrow minded, plain stupid, and Labour frankly haven't had the guts to stand up to them and their foolish 'Daily Mail' world view.
:worship:

Pengwin
Apr 17th, 2005, 02:43 PM
Real cases of vandalism to Tory posters:

http://img154.echo.cx/img154/6331/toryposter8240px5yi.jpg

http://img154.echo.cx/img154/1081/toryposter9240px2sc.jpg

http://img154.echo.cx/img154/292/3078136cm.jpg

http://img154.echo.cx/img154/8887/3080560fp.jpg

http://img154.echo.cx/img154/1333/3080620qx.jpg

http://img154.echo.cx/img154/8792/6654694acfb09c8c6m1ri.jpg

http://img154.echo.cx/img154/4803/5944571567bd6f6adm8nd.jpg

http://img154.echo.cx/img154/5164/7337234fdaf8d88c0m3xz.jpg

Martian Willow
Apr 17th, 2005, 03:58 PM
I think I realised the pontential for modifying those posters but I'd worry about creating a negative reaction. Some of those are quite inventive. :)

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Apr 17th, 2005, 04:11 PM
Wow -- I am thankful we don't have vandalism of political signs here that I'm aware of. I thought our political culture was pretty extreme but I guess it pales in comparison to England.

gentenaire
Apr 17th, 2005, 04:37 PM
They're asking for it, with posters like that! :lol:

"Are you thinking at all?" teeheehee

gentenaire
Apr 17th, 2005, 04:39 PM
Wow -- I am thankful we don't have vandalism of political signs here that I'm aware of. I thought our political culture was pretty extreme but I guess it pales in comparison to England.

I prefer the English political culture, they actually have a sense of humour!

Scotso
Apr 17th, 2005, 04:46 PM
No, they're not. LAbour is the socialist part. Liberal in Europe has a different meaning than liberal in the US. Here liberal refers to freedom, free market (opposite of socialists!), less government involvement, etc. And also more freedom socially, so they're generally fairly progressive.

Well it seems to me you're wrong. You're describing what we would call "Libertarians," and from reading the stances of the Lib Dems, they're not Libertarians. The very fact that they want to increase many taxes shows that.

Scotso
Apr 17th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Wow -- I am thankful we don't have vandalism of political signs here that I'm aware of. I thought our political culture was pretty extreme but I guess it pales in comparison to England.

It does. Politics in Great Britain are no laughing matter. They get downright MEAN. If you listen to debates in the U.S. Congress, people can be hostile but almost always refrain from insulting one another... in Great Britain, it's very common to throw numerous personal insults the way of the person you are debating. It seems very juvenile at times.

Pengwin
Apr 17th, 2005, 04:51 PM
It does. Politics in Great Britain are no laughing matter. They get downright MEAN. If you listen to debates in the U.S. Congress, people can be hostile but almost always refrain from insulting one another... in Great Britain, it's very common to throw numerous personal insults the way of the person you are debating. It seems very juvenile at times.

It isn't always this dirty. Mr. Howard is just an extremely dirty man who wants to turn this into a personal battle against Blair rather than Labour policies.

Cassius
Apr 17th, 2005, 04:57 PM
Heh heh heh, I love those re-done posters:haha:

ClaudiaZ-S
Apr 17th, 2005, 05:35 PM
THE LABOUR PARTY WILL WIN ! :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :hearts: :hearts:

Monica_Rules
Apr 17th, 2005, 05:55 PM
Based on all the opinion polls Labour will win whatever happens really.The Tories aren't leading in any of the polls and they need to lead by 10% to get a majority of 1.

I'm going to predict that Labour will have about 380-390 seats. The tories will have bout 160-170 and the Lib Dems will have around 60-65. So things will be roughly the same. Labour slightly weaker the Tories not really improving much and thr Lib Dems improving yet again.

The initial surge towards the Tories seems to have gone.But it could come back. I can't see the tories getting much more than 200 seats

gentenaire
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:51 PM
Well it seems to me you're wrong. You're describing what we would call "Libertarians," and from reading the stances of the Lib Dems, they're not Libertarians. The very fact that they want to increase many taxes shows that.

Yes, what you would call libertarian, what we call liberal. The tax increase is a very un-liberal thing, you're right there. They actually go against what normal liberals would do. Lord Nelson's view of Lib Dems was correct. And Willow's ironic 'I didn't know they had any ideas' is rather correct too, it seems, since they currently just pick out the ideas that the other parties don't have. They're not sticking strickly to what liberalism stands for, they're just going for what they think the people want to hear. That's politics. Labour is supposed to be socialist, they softened it down a lot too.
Maybe that's why the Lib Dems took on some socialists view, because the supposedly socialists have veered away from it ;-)

gentenaire
Apr 17th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Heh heh heh, I love those re-done posters:haha:

Careful, you might get bad reps from the right wingers, for thinking those are funny, like I got.

creep
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:06 PM
There are 150,000 unfilled jobs in the midlands area.

I never knew McDonald’s had such a large input in the Midlands.

Kart
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:08 PM
http://img154.echo.cx/img154/1333/3080620qx.jpg


:lol:

creep
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:11 PM
Why would anybody wish to vote Labour after the deceit during the Iraq war?

They (Saint Tony) lied about Saddam having WMD, yet some still believe in everything he says. lol

Pengwin
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Why would anybody wish to vote Labour after the deceit during the Iraq war?

They (Saint Tony) lied about Saddam having WMD, yet some still believe in everything he says. lol

The Conservatives voted FOR the war as well.

creep
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:32 PM
The Conservatives voted FOR the war as well.

Shows what bigger dipshits they were for believeing him. Especially when many in his own ranks said HE was lying. lol But this does not dismiss the fact HE lied.

And, no I'm not tory.

Theyre all a bunch of wankers, seriously don't waste time voting for any of them. Go down to the pub and have a beer instead. :)

creep
Apr 17th, 2005, 07:36 PM
It was the same when that other eejit Clinton was blowing his cookies all over Monica. lol....And he came on national television and denied it. When it then transpired it was true, he never even resigned. Now do you think he really gave a shit about domestic or foreign policy whenever he was getting head? lol They’ll tell you anything to get elected.

Grachka
Apr 17th, 2005, 10:43 PM
Well actually, Blair didn't lie, well certainly not knowingly. He merely said what he was given, so blame the security services for those untruths on WMD :)

:lol: at those Tory posters.

Monica_Rules
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:20 AM
Yeah lest all go down the pub and not vote and let the country fall into runi wonderful idea! NOT!

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:37 AM
Well actually, Blair didn't lie, well certainly not knowingly. He merely said what he was given, so blame the security services for those untruths on WMD :)

:lol: at those Tory posters.

Yeah, right. Blair's greatest achievement has been somehow persuading the world that his integrity just can't be called into question because he's oh so innocent. Bollocks to that. The dodgy dossier, the (admittedly dressed up in civil service speak to the point where hardly anyone understood it) Butler report, the pressure put on the security services to come up with the "right answers", all points to Blair knowingly lying. He'll get away with it because no-one wants Michael "something of the night about him", "Mr. Poll Tax", "Vampire" Howard as prime minister either, but every time I see his smug face, I get flashbacks to the anti-war marches, none of which did Blair dare to address or even watch. A million British people (let's face it, we really don't do large scale protests) marched against the war only to be ignored because Mr Blair thinks God is on his side. I like my Labour MP, I really do, she voted against the war, against top-up fees, against the nasty terror legislation, but I can't bring myself to use my vote to help Blair in any way.

I'm shocked by the number of people in this thread who've said that they never vote. Why not?

flyingmachine
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:44 AM
Yeah, right. Blair's greatest achievement has been somehow persuading the world that his integrity just can't be called into question because he's oh so innocent. Bollocks to that. The dodgy dossier, the (admittedly dressed up in civil service speak to the point where hardly anyone understood it) Butler report, the pressure put on the security services to come up with the "right answers", all points to Blair knowingly lying. He'll get away with it because no-one wants Michael "something of the night about him", "Mr. Poll Tax", "Vampire" Howard as prime minister either, but every time I see his smug face, I get flashbacks to the anti-war marches, none of which did Blair dare to address or even watch. A million British people (let's face it, we really don't do large scale protests) marched against the war only to be ignored because Mr Blair thinks God is on his side. I like my Labour MP, I really do, she voted against the war, against top-up fees, against the nasty terror legislation, but I can't bring myself to use my vote to help Blair in any way.

I'm shocked by the number of people in this thread who've said that they never vote. Why not?
I could understand why you pissed off about it but given what we got now is hardly suprising at all. :o I wished there was an option on the ballot paper said "non of these above."
The main problem is that we don't trust our politicans anymore it seems they broken promises time after time. :rolleyes: It seems no one are caring about us as the people of this country anymore they only care for themselves this is why so many people in this country just don't want to vote. They all seems to say "cut taxs but increase on spending blah blah blah." But this is hardly logical isn't it. We (well I ) don't expect Everything to be perfect but at least they can be honest about the situration but many of these are hardly honest people. :rolleyes: Anyway Despite of that I'm perfer this current goverment than the tories at the moment.

Andy T
Apr 18th, 2005, 10:56 AM
How old are you?....are you seriously trying to contend that socialism can produce a healthy prosperous society. Off your head mate.

Compare Britain circa 1979 with Britain in 1990. I'd like you to explain why the UK was so fuct in the late 1970s & so prosperous in the 1990s.

Between 1951 and 1974, the Conservatives held power for all but 6 years. If Britain was fuct at the end of the 1970s, it's pretty clear who fuct it.

saki
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:19 AM
I could understand why you pissed off about it but given what we got now is hardly suprising at all. :o I wished there was an option on the ballot paper said "non of these above."
The main problem is that we don't trust our politicans anymore it seems they broken promises time after time. :rolleyes: It seems no one are caring about us as the people of this country anymore they only care for themselves this is why so many people in this country just don't want to vote. They all seems to say "cut taxs but increase on spending blah blah blah." But this is hardly logical isn't it. We (well I ) don't expect Everything to be perfect but at least they can be honest about the situration but many of these are hardly honest people. :rolleyes: Anyway Despite of that I'm perfer this current goverment than the tories at the moment.

It's not just the war, it's the abuse of our unwritten constitution, it's the really scary terror legislation (frankly, I'm more scared of the government now that I am of terrorism), it's the whole "I'm the messiah" style of leadership that Blair has. I don't want a Tory government either, what I'd like is a hung parliament and a coalition. Ideally a Tory-Lib Dem coalition but a Labour-Lib Dem coalition would be good too - we might well get electoral reform that way. That's why I'm voting Lib Dem. I'm in a three-way marginal that, hopefully, the Lib Dems can win.

creep
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:29 AM
Yeah, right. Blair's greatest achievement has been somehow persuading the world that his integrity just can't be called into question because he's oh so innocent. Bollocks to that. The dodgy dossier, the (admittedly dressed up in civil service speak to the point where hardly anyone understood it) Butler report, the pressure put on the security services to come up with the "right answers", all points to Blair knowingly lying. He'll get away with it because no-one wants Michael "something of the night about him", "Mr. Poll Tax", "Vampire" Howard as prime minister either, but every time I see his smug face, I get flashbacks to the anti-war marches, none of which did Blair dare to address or even watch. A million British people (let's face it, we really don't do large scale protests) marched against the war only to be ignored because Mr Blair thinks God is on his side. I like my Labour MP, I really do, she voted against the war, against top-up fees, against the nasty terror legislation, but I can't bring myself to use my vote to help Blair in any way.

I'm shocked by the number of people in this thread who've said that they never vote. Why not?

Because for ordinary working class folk nothing ever changes. They bring out manifestos pledging to do thisthatandtother, but they never implement what they promise in the first place. There’s very little of so-called Labour anyway. Most aren’t from working class backgrounds. Their kids all go to public schools. I don’t blame them, have you seen your local comprehensive lately?I have met many politicians, and none were worth a minute of anybody’s time.
And why people still believe what Tony Blair says I can’t fathom. He believed George Bush lol now what’s that tell you about the man!

Put Jamie Oliver in charge! ;)

Cassius
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:07 PM
I'm shocked by the number of people in this thread who've said that they never vote. Why not?
Because for ordinary working class folk nothing ever changes. They bring out manifestos pledging to do thisthatandtother, but they never implement what they promise in the first place. There’s very little of so-called Labour anyway. Most aren’t from working class backgrounds. Their kids all go to public schools. I don’t blame them, have you seen your local comprehensive lately?I have met many politicians, and none were worth a minute of anybody’s time.
Here here.
All the politicians from the big 3 parties are all the same.
They're all just rent-a-politicians.

Never trust the Tories, because they'll fuck you over.
Never trust Labour, because it's in their interest to keep everybody poor, because they rely on the poor to vote for them.
Never trust the Lib Dems because they just hang on to the Tories and Labour's coat-tails.

I'll still probably end up voting Lib Dem though. Best of the 3. Or maybe the Greens. Why not?

Martian Willow
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:47 PM
Politicians or political parties who made realistic promises about what they were able to deliver would never get elected.

Cassius
Apr 18th, 2005, 07:56 PM
Politicians or political parties who made realistic promises about what they were able to deliver would never get elected.
Unfortunately yes.
But if an advert says a product does something, and it doesn't do that thing, you can take it back. Wouldn't it be great if we could do that with politicians (instead of having to wait 4/5 years)?

Barrie_Dude
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:36 PM
The Canadian Elections thread has more posts so we Canadians must be more popular! :nerner:

Pengwin
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:44 PM
The Canadian Elections thread has more posts so we Canadians must be more popular! :nerner:

Damn voter apathy :o ;)

Barrie_Dude
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:46 PM
Damn voter apathy :o ;)If you saw what a soap opera our elections were over here, you'd know why we are all interested! The only people that are worse behaved than Canadian Pols are the British Royals!;)

fifiricci
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:51 PM
Well all I can tell you is that I've always voted labour, but this time I'm going to vote lib dem (wasted vote, I know, blah blah), but if you saw what I'm paying in tax and NI (and if like me you hate Tony Blair for kissing Bush's arse) what other alternative does a sensible girl have? Ideas on a postcard please ...........

Pengwin
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:58 PM
Well all I can tell you is that I've always voted labour, but this time I'm going to vote lib dem (wasted vote, I know, blah blah), but if you saw what I'm paying in tax and NI (and if like me you hate Tony Blair for kissing Bush's arse) what other alternative does a sensible girl have? Ideas on a postcard please ...........

As the Guardian.co.uk said, 'I will give you a free noseplug if you vote Labour, it's the only way to keep the Tories out.'

Sounds like sound advice to me.

SJW
Apr 18th, 2005, 09:37 PM
Um...3 million unemployed (or more, considering they used to 'massage' the figures, which the current government do not), double figure interest rates, the miners strike, the poll tax (Michael Howards idea), Black Wednesday, privatisation and general destruction of our manufacturing industry...I could go on...if you weren't there I guess you have no idea how bad it was...but, it was bad...far, far worse than it is now. :)

But I'm biased. :p

you'll rarely find me giving Willow her props but :worship: at that.

i guess as a Business Studies student i have an unfair advantage against those spewing the conservative propaganda, but Britain as a whole did suffer due to some Conservative policies...which the Labour govt (as much as i hate Blair) have tried hard to rectify.

i wouldn't want Britain to go back under conservative rule, especially as we're experiencing promising economic growth. however, Labour havent really convinced me to definitely vote for them either, and the Lib Dem party lets face it will not win. so as far as im concerned, Labour is the lesser of the two evils :)

Virginia Wade
Apr 18th, 2005, 10:05 PM
One wants to vote for the Whigs. They have a tremendous policy on random executions one hears.

veryborednow
Apr 18th, 2005, 10:43 PM
The Tories don't even have a manifesto. Not a proper one. It's like one morning Michael sat down for breakfast, his wife plonked the Daily Star in front of him and he decided that would do.

Hate.

veryborednow
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:02 PM
I had no idea Thatcher was so hated in Britian In America she comes off as England's saving grace!
She would, Reagan used the same policies she did and would want to paint her in the best possible way so that everyone would agree with him.

Do you honestly think Thatcher was a good leader? Well if you do then obviously you are not British.
I'm British. And I like Thatcher. I hate the Conservatives, but she did what needed to be done. As with Rover at the moment, it doesn't serve the country well in a globalized economy to keep propping up companies that are uncompetitive.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/election2005/archives/archives/mattsblog.jpg
The Times is running a competition for the best piss take, my favourite so far is Anne Widecome holding up a sign: "The Hair is natural"

I hate the way immigration is taking centre stage, the Tories want to quit UN refugee convention. Nice.

Andy T
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:04 PM
One wants to vote for the Whigs. They have a tremendous policy on random executions one hears.

...and there was me thinking you'd be advocating a return to an absolute monarchy Virginia. Evidently, the prospect of Camilla as Queen has put you orf that idea. ;) Why not go for a republic and stand for president with cardigan pink as your party's colour?

Virginia Wade
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:09 PM
...and there was me thinking you'd be advocating a return to an absolute monarchy Virginia. Evidently, the prospect of Camilla as Queen has put you orf that idea. ;) Why not go for a republic and stand for president with cardigan pink as your party's colour?

Camilla!??!?! Gadzooks, the name of the Bowels woman and her type sends shivers down mine spine. She makes Chrissie appear like the epitome of class.

Obviously as the True Queen of South AfricaEngland, one supports absolute monarchy. One could rule the land. No child shalt ever go cold - free pink cardigans for all.

My slogan:
Not Only In The Centenary Year: Vote VW

creep
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:16 AM
Politicians or political parties who made realistic promises about what they were able to deliver would never get elected.

That's probably why I don't vote. I can't handle the truth. :)

Halardfan
Apr 19th, 2005, 02:44 PM
Anyone care to put down a prediction for the election result? Recent polls seem to have turned more Labour's way...which could actually HURT Labour...plenty of downhearted Labour supporters will stay with Labour if they think its close, but if they think its gonna be an easy win for Labour they might switch to the Lib Dems or stay at home...

I say...Labour to win with a 95-seat Majority...though I change my mind day to day!

Cassius
Apr 19th, 2005, 02:51 PM
I think Labour will win, well ahead of the Tories, with the Lib Dems close behind.

I also predict the BNP, UKIP, Veritas etc will get more votes than they did last time.
Not sure about the Greens, who've been England's 4th party for a while now.

saki
Apr 19th, 2005, 03:47 PM
I really don't know what's going to happen. I'm fairly certain that Labour will win, but the size of their majority is anyone's guess. Many of the Labour marginals have Blairite MPs (as they were the ones won in 97 or 01) which makes me think that we'll see more Labour seats lost than the opinion polls would necessarily predict.

veryborednow
Apr 19th, 2005, 06:07 PM
I'm more than 100% certain Labour will win. I'd put all my money on it, though today that consists of 5 quid 22p.

And Veritas is 100% certain to win more votes than last time, cos it didn't exist last time. And Robert Killroy Silk will vote for himself.

Cassius
Apr 20th, 2005, 06:49 PM
I'd put all my money on it, though today that consists of 5 quid 22p.
You're almost as poor as me - I owe Barclays 60 hard earned English pounds.

And Veritas is 100% certain to win more votes than last time, cos it didn't exist last time.
Smartarse

And Robert Killroy Silk will vote for himself.
As if we would expect anything else from that utterly vile man (I use the term 'man' loosely, as I think he might be part reptile - he's definitely cold-blooded)

creep
Apr 20th, 2005, 07:02 PM
Here’s another genuine reason NOT to vote.

I’m sitting at home eating my fish and chips, watching Richard and Judy (yeah I know my life sucks), whenever some character handing out election literature, strolls up the path to my home, and pushes some through the letterbox.
He turns around walks down the path, (which isn’t very long) and then calmly as you like WITHOUT closing the gate (okay okay, so it’s falling of it’s hinges) strolls towards next door.
So I gets up for me chair, opens the door, and asks him ‘Why should I bother my arse voting for your party if you can’t even shut the friggin gate on the way out?’
He replies ‘It was already open mate’ then he tried to shut the gate, but couldn’t as the latch is broken anyway. ‘It’s not closing he remarked’
‘That’s it!’ break the bloody thing properly I shouted.
Then he turned around to the woman who was helping him distribute the leaflets and said ‘Gloria - note to head office’ ‘When elected gate at number 22 needs repaired’. She just laughed and scribbled something down on the clipboard she was carrying.

gentenaire
Apr 20th, 2005, 07:32 PM
The Times is running a competition for the best piss take, my favourite so far is Anne Widecome holding up a sign: "The Hair is natural"
.

I must be on a lot of people's ignore lists :(

raquel
Apr 20th, 2005, 09:05 PM
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/election2005/archives/archives/mattsblog.jpg
The Times is running a competition for the best piss take, my favourite so far is Anne Widecome holding up a sign: "The Hair is natural"


:lol:

If you click here, you can change the sign to say anything you want, which is more amusing than it should be - http://odin.prohosting.com/~jmjmjm/thinking.html?line1Text=never&line2Text=had&line3Text=sex

veryborednow
Apr 21st, 2005, 09:14 AM
I must be on a lot of people's ignore lists :(
What do you mean?

Cassius, yes I'm a smartarse. But anychance to mock Rob K-S has to be taken.

Andy T
Apr 21st, 2005, 12:14 PM
According to the BBC Website, the stars have declared their allegiances as follows:

Conservatives: Frederick Forsyth, Tim Rice, Tony Hadley, Eddie Jordan, Joan Collins, Bill Wyman, Annika Rice.

Labour: Noel Gallagher, Alex Ferguson, Liz Dawn (aka Vera Duckworth), Prunella Scales, maureen Lipman, Richard Wilson, Eddie Izzard, Richard Attenborough.

Lib Dems: Claire Rayner, Barry Norman, Nicholas Parsons, Germaine Greer, Fran Healy (Travis)

SNP: Sean Connery

Greens: Steven Berkoff, Peter Tatchell, Tim Roth

*Karen*
Apr 21st, 2005, 12:35 PM
This is the first year I get to vote. Will probably go for the Scottish National Party. I don't really think it makes much difference who's in power.

veryborednow
Apr 21st, 2005, 12:58 PM
Sean Connery's adverts are so sickeningly lame, they always give my family a good giggle.

My childhood love for Annika Rice has just evapourated.

Lord Nelson
Apr 21st, 2005, 01:15 PM
What is wrong with Sean Connery's position? Not all Scots want to be part of Britain.

Cassius
Apr 21st, 2005, 01:58 PM
Cassius, yes I'm a smartarse. But anychance to mock Rob K-S has to be taken.
Yeah I know. Did you see last weeks Have I Got News For You?
There was a little 'cameo' by RKS. Disgraceful it was.

veryborednow
Apr 21st, 2005, 02:07 PM
Didn't say anything was wrong with Sean Connery's position, I'd like to see and independent Scotland too.

It was the "why [aren't you going back] tomorrow" that resulted with jaw on floor. I love his manifesto, so delusional.

Euro MP Robert Kilroy-Silk has launched his Veritas Party's manifesto with an attack on multi-culturalism imposed by "liberal fascists in London".

The idea that everybody should respect each other's culture was "nonsense", he said, adding that not all cultures were equal - some were "reprehensible".

He also set out Veritas' plans to bring in a 22% flat tax rate and not to tax the first £12,000 earnings.

The party is also proposing to withdraw from the European Union so Britain could "take back control of its borders".
It's just the BNP with a fancy name. Funny kind of "truth" And with some random taxation system. :confused: I still can't believe he's a Euro MP, I'm so embarrassed for our country.

Halardfan
Apr 21st, 2005, 03:29 PM
I think the actual style of 'The Sun' saying they are supporting Blair, was quite clever, with its riff on the Pope story...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005181449,00.html

However, everyone knows the Sun's instincts are with the Conservatives, and if they thought there was a chance for the Tories, they would support them...they just want to be seen to back the winner, they are the ultimate fair weather friend.

Frankly their unwanted support makes it even more certain I'll go Lib Dem!

veryborednow
Apr 21st, 2005, 03:31 PM
Our team held long and intensive discussions to decide which party we should back on May 5.
...After being paid off by Tony.

Kart
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:15 PM
My childhood love for Annika Rice has just evapourated.

I hear you :( - unless this is part of a new series of challenge Anneka.

Not sure if any of those celebrity lists are actually going to be more positive than negative for any of the parties.

Monica_Rules
Apr 21st, 2005, 06:35 PM
I feel totally the same. Supoorting the conservatives:rolleyes: what were you thinking Anika.

I do find it funny that the Sun used to support the tories.It seems such a weird thing as the sun is the common mans paper generally usually Labour is the party of the common man.

Dancehall_Queen_
Apr 23rd, 2005, 12:46 AM
Vote BNP...just kidding im thinking lib dems have da best policies but not sure if Keneddy is up to the job he's nice and ordinary an alll unlike creepy Howard but not a strong like Blair.

vertigo
Apr 23rd, 2005, 12:38 PM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40932000/jpg/_40932817_knapman203.jpg

Would you trust this man to decide your future?!?! He is the leader of the UK Independence Party... I THINK NOT.

veryborednow
Apr 23rd, 2005, 12:54 PM
His hair piece is wonky

Grachka
Apr 23rd, 2005, 01:51 PM
Shall be voting SNP for the election, if only to see what situation differing governments would bring for devolution.

I am looking forward to a time when Alex Salmond is back in the Scottish Parliament, considering he is considerably more clever, witty and politically astute than everyone else in that chamber.

All the signs are pointing to the SNP's share of the seats going down though, with evil Tories' going up :(

Vote SNP!

ASV_FAN
Apr 23rd, 2005, 03:11 PM
I shall be voting for the Conservatives. This is my 1st general election but I have always voted Tory in the local elections and UK Independence Party in the European elections. I'm sick of immigrants in this country and I think it's time to close the borders, this includes asylum seekers we are simply overrun.

Monica_Rules
Apr 23rd, 2005, 04:08 PM
I see that you have been brainwahed by the papers and the tories.

The country is nowhere near being over run. we accept 100,000 asylum seekers every year as the UN suggests we should. People emigrate here because they want a better ife whats wrong with that. How may Brits love to Spain every year.I'm sure i've heard 500,000 brits live there now.Should spain stop brits moving there?

Most of the people who come to britain are running away from governments who abuse them or will kill them if they stay there. I question your empathy as a human being if you think we should 'close our borders'

And also what give you the right to be in this country more than them. We all share this world and allhave a right to live wherever we want.

Bezz
Apr 23rd, 2005, 04:16 PM
Why do the SNP campaign on English TV? . They are obviously not gonna get any votes here, and are scots living in England still allowed to vote in the Scottish elections?.

Labour have my vote all the way, can't stand the conservatives, not only cos of thier policies but micheal howards accent irritates me!, why cant he say "people" properly.

I like the lib dems, but i think they are trying to please too many people at the same time and i dont think it is gonna happen. maybe next election i will vote for them :cool:

saki
Apr 23rd, 2005, 04:34 PM
I'm a second generation immigrant but, even so, I think we need to have a sensible debate about immigration. At the moment the two options being presented to us seem to be "let everyone in" and "let no-one in" and I don't think either option is reasonable. I'd like to see us negotiate an EU treaty so that refugees and economic migrants wanting to enter into the EU have their cases assessed by a central body and are sent to countries in such a way as to ensure that every EU is taking a reasonable number. Currently, for example, Itay has a dramatically falling birth rate and could therefore comfortably take more immigrants than crowded urban countries like Britain and the Netherlands.

We also need to make sure that the facts are coming across clearly. FACT - asylum seekers who are granted asylum typically take fewer benefits than British-born people and are typically better educated. Obviously we don't want our welfare state to be abused by immigrants but the facts suggest that it's our indigenous population who are doing that much more so than immigrants.

None of the three political parties is taking a sensible line on immigration.

Kart
Apr 23rd, 2005, 04:44 PM
I see that you have been brainwahed by the papers and the tories.

The country is nowhere near being over run. we accept 100,000 asylum seekers every year as the UN suggests we should. People emigrate here because they want a better ife whats wrong with that. How may Brits love to Spain every year.I'm sure i've heard 500,000 brits live there now.Should spain stop brits moving there?

Most of the people who come to britain are running away from governments who abuse them or will kill them if they stay there. I question your empathy as a human being if you think we should 'close our borders'

And also what give you the right to be in this country more than them. We all share this world and allhave a right to live wherever we want.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

!<blocparty>!
Apr 23rd, 2005, 05:25 PM
This woman named Ellen ap daydd (or something) came into the shop where I work today and started talking to me. I told her I was 18, so I could hear what she had to say. It wasnt very interesting. She was bitching about Blair and how he lies to everyone, the illegal war and whatever. That was OK, but then she went on how good it would be to make Wales seperate like Scotland. So I asked her how much more money we'd waste stupid buildings, maybe another 2 million and having plans scraped?

I told her I would not vote for Plaid, then she went.

OUT!
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:50 PM
Sean Connery's adverts are so sickeningly lame, they always give my family a good giggle.

My childhood love for Annika Rice has just evapourated.
Yes all of those Challenge Anneka videotapes are being burnt as we speak. I also found Frederick Forsythe rather scary in the immigration debate on C4 a few days ago. :eek: But hey, we've been scapegoated since year dot I suppose.

veryborednow
Apr 24th, 2005, 09:24 AM
I think when it comes to the immigration debate, I wish that the papers had made a bigger deal about one of the bigwigs in industry saying that the Conservative immigration policy (and to a lesser extent, Labour) would damage our economy.

I can't ever say I've understood the feeling of superiority that's bourne from being born in a country over those who haven't. Those coming here are people who have given up their lives as they knew it to get here, they're not the type of people who are then going to be content with living on benefits - unlike some people who were born in the UK. My dad's company has hired a group of Polish men who are putting the Brits to shame in terms of productivity.

I think the Conservatives sterotypes are lazy and nasty. Linking immigration to terrorism when those arrested under the terrorism acts are overwhelmingly British, and not even attempting to differentiate between immigrants and assylum seekers. And you just know that all the Torygraph, Sun and Daily Mail readers are going to be sucked in by all of it.

Andy T
Apr 24th, 2005, 09:44 AM
I think when it comes to the immigration debate, I wish that the papers had made a bigger deal about one of the bigwigs in industry saying that the Conservative immigration policy (and to a lesser extent, Labour) would damage our economy.

I can't ever say I've understood the feeling of superiority that's bourne from being born in a country over those who haven't. Those coming here are people who have given up their lives as they knew it to get here, they're not the type of people who are then going to be content with living on benefits - unlike some people who were born in the UK. My dad's company has hired a group of Polish men who are putting the Brits to shame in terms of productivity.

I think the Conservatives sterotypes are lazy and nasty. Linking immigration to terrorism when those arrested under the terrorism acts are overwhelmingly British, and not even attempting to differentiate between immigrants and assylum seekers. And you just know that all the Torygraph, Sun and Daily Mail readers are going to be sucked in by all of it.
:worship:

creep
Apr 24th, 2005, 10:09 AM
Look if you all need proof not to vote, just watch this on Channel4 tomorrow evening.

Channel4......8-00PM
Election Unspun
Why Politicians Can't Tell The Truth.

And don't give me all this 'Oh I'll be out with my friends, blah blah blah, cause none of you have lives at all.

PamShriverRockz
Apr 24th, 2005, 11:07 AM
I think when it comes to the immigration debate, I wish that the papers had made a bigger deal about one of the bigwigs in industry saying that the Conservative immigration policy (and to a lesser extent, Labour) would damage our economy.

I can't ever say I've understood the feeling of superiority that's bourne from being born in a country over those who haven't. Those coming here are people who have given up their lives as they knew it to get here, they're not the type of people who are then going to be content with living on benefits - unlike some people who were born in the UK. My dad's company has hired a group of Polish men who are putting the Brits to shame in terms of productivity.

I think the Conservatives sterotypes are lazy and nasty. Linking immigration to terrorism when those arrested under the terrorism acts are overwhelmingly British, and not even attempting to differentiate between immigrants and assylum seekers. And you just know that all the Torygraph, Sun and Daily Mail readers are going to be sucked in by all of it.

:yeah: I concur!
There are too many lies and misconceptions floating around in certain media about this.

Halardfan
Apr 26th, 2005, 11:39 AM
The other day, the BNP launched their manifesto...while they remain a tiny party nationally, its frankly worrying that they get ANY votes at all, and that maninstream parties like the Tories and even Labour seem so willing to fight the election on their ground...

A BBC report on the launch, with some bizarre details of their policies...by the way they have said they want to send immigrants an dtheir descendants "home"...how far might this go back? My grandad is Polish...will they send him "home"? As his descendant, am I to be sent "home" too, even though Ive never been to Poland and don't speak a word of Polish? I actually suspect it might not apply to me, as Im white. What a bunch of f*ckers.

-------------------------------


The British National Party has launched its general election manifesto with a call to abolish multi-culturalism.


Leader Nick Griffin also called for EU withdrawal, the restoration of capital punishment and an end to immigration.

He said British troops should be pulled out of Iraq and used to patrol Dover and the Channel Tunnel to keep out illegal immigrants and asylum seekers.

And he pledged to introduce "firm but voluntary incentives for immigrants and their descendants to return home".

Assault rifle

He said the main issue at this election was for the British to regain control of their own country.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif
Mr Griffin also wants the reintroduction of national service and said everyone who had undergone it should be required to keep a modern assault rifle at home.

"It's there to shoot burglars with if they want, it's there to shoot people who invade this country if they want, and if in the end a tyrannical government wants to usurp the rights and freedoms of the people it is there to use against the government as well," he said.

He added that this would disprove the "smear" that his party was totalitarian. ( :lol: :lol: :lol: :rolleyes: )
The BNP is fielding more than 100 candidates in this election - four times as many as it did in the last general election.

-----------------------------

Gawd help us.

mboyle
Apr 26th, 2005, 03:59 PM
I shall be voting for the Conservatives. This is my 1st general election but I have always voted Tory in the local elections and UK Independence Party in the European elections. I'm sick of immigrants in this country and I think it's time to close the borders, this includes asylum seekers we are simply overrun.

Right party, wrong reason. Immigrants don't need to be paid much of anything. That cheap labor keeps business costs down. The reason Europe is pummeling towards greater irrelevancy by the minute is because her labor costs are sky high (thanks to insanely high taxes, especially on the rich, and a lack of an immigrant class.) Don't worry, jobs for white people will always be around. However, without the immigrant class, new, higher paying jobs can't be created because the freed capital isn't there. Still vote for the Tories, but do so because 50% tax rates are disgusting acts of robbery, and liberals don't understand how to run governments efficiently.

mboyle
Apr 26th, 2005, 04:01 PM
I really hope for the UK's own good that the tories get some more seats, though Labour isn't exactly as bad as the Demoncrats over here, and the Tories seem a little fear based in their views. Still, no economy can function properly when its investors have half of their money stolen each year.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Apr 26th, 2005, 04:35 PM
Jesus mboyle, you are just awful.

veryborednow
Apr 26th, 2005, 04:37 PM
Mboyle - The Conservatives are proposing tax increases too. No party, except Veritas (oh joy) is proposing to cut taxes.

Pengwin
Apr 26th, 2005, 04:54 PM
Taxes are lower now than the Thatcher governement...

DevilishAttitude
Apr 26th, 2005, 05:23 PM
At least the BNP we would get us out of Iraq. :)

Mboyle does it really matter to you who's get voted here. It's no way near has important has USA politics wise.

Pengwin
Apr 26th, 2005, 05:42 PM
mboyle, George Bush has publicly shown his dislike for the Conservative leader Michael Howard and has repeatedly refused to meet with him. It's in the US interests for Labour to win this election.

veryborednow
Apr 26th, 2005, 07:16 PM
I cam to this thread late and was going to let some of the things set upthread go, but seeing a mboyle insists on poking his/her nose into the UK Election thread, I’m going to have to give them a quick tutorial in UK politics. So here goes:

Thatcher killed liberal silliness in England that y'all might benefit from Reagan's intelligence, which would have been impossible if your wealthy had to pay all of their money to Parliament.
True: Thatcher changed economy from manufacturing to service orientated. She reduced the size of the state, and reduced to power of the Trade Unions.
False: She did not got this from Reagan. Thatcher election 1979. Reagan, 1980.
False: The main factor in the stimulation of the British economy was not the supopsed transfer from socialism to capitalism, but the crude oil supplies from the North Sea which allowed us to pay our debts.

Liberals want everything to stay the same, generally.
Thatcher has confused you, mboyle. The Conservative party historically derive from the Whigs and the Liberals. It is the Conservative party who (shockingly) have conservative policies thus wanting everything to stay the same. It is the Conservatives who are for “One Nation Toryism” and have started the “Back to Basics” campaigns. Not our liberal parties.

For example, you were complaining that Thatcher caused industries (such as coal mining) to collapse. If you study economics in history, that is the best thing a country could hope for. Without such collapses, nothing could improve because there would be no need to find new technologies to cultivate.
This is entirely true, I agree. Britain’s economy is about 20 years ahead of say, Italy’s because we have changed from manufacturing/heavy industries like coali mining and ship building to service industries which are Britain’s economic future. Go Maggie.

Oh and they back greater policing too. WTF? The government is there to prevent total chaos, not to micromanage society.
Britain has got its policy of ‘zero-tolerance’ policing from the success of its implementation in New York, and is a tradition extension of the British government’s responsibilities. They are called ‘Bobbies’ because Robert Peel introduced them in London all those years ago.

While you’re clearly a Thatcher fan, and I am too, mostly. She did not reflect the traditional doctrine of the Conservative party, and her legacy has been to tear them apart with infighting. Her policy of not reinvesting in public services has led to an intolerance by the electorate of parties not willing to put more money into the NHS for example. Our economy is doing fine, and didn’t go into recession when America’s did, for all our government’s “ridiculous” taxation policies.

I have to go write my essay.

!<blocparty>!
Apr 28th, 2005, 10:46 PM
Did anyone see quetion time tonight?

Kennedy did brilliantly I thought :) Howard was just terrible, the first question was the best :lol: The look on his face was priceless. Am going to watch Blair tomorrow.

Pengwin
Apr 28th, 2005, 10:52 PM
Kennedy was the most natural and obviously the most popular with the audience. He was as always very assured and is a trustworthy man from the looks of it.

Howard was nervous and he didn't do anything unexpected. I'm surprised he was so persistant on the topic of war, as it's a weakness for them I would have expected him to say 2 lines and move on, but he kept at it.

Blair was strong and firm but I have a feeling the audience was picked to give him a hard time. They were harsh and unfair. I particularly didn't like the attitude of the university student who wouldn't let him answer his own question!

Bottom line is from the interviews is that Blair will win but it will be a smaller majority and he will not serve a full term. Nothing we didn't already know.

Bring on next Thursday.

!<blocparty>!
Apr 28th, 2005, 10:59 PM
I thought Kennedy did really well, too. David tried to give him a hard time when it came to education in Scotland but he was having none of it. All his policies made sense to me tonight. He didnt seem nervous at all.

Howard to me seems like he's always on the defensive when talking, and just waffled on about Blairs policies when put in a corner.

One of my favourite questions was something like "You continue to call Tony Blair a liar, how does it feel to be behind in the polls, again" Howard: "The only poll I am looking to is the one next week, I don't agree with these ones done by Newspapers".

Dancehall_Queen_
Apr 29th, 2005, 12:52 AM
Yeah Kennedy is lovely the only genuine one. Im voting lib dems!!

On a sperate note Why cant you ppl get over yourselves on the issue of immigration if it wasnt for immigration half of the NHS would disappea half the lecturers at university are foreign and teachers i mean immigration is good for this country man. If there was a war going on in the UK how would you feel if other countries told you to f' off you wouldnt like it... some british ppl seem to think they arte superior its well annoying!

Halardfan
May 5th, 2005, 09:20 AM
Today is the day then!

Has anyone here actually changed their mind in this campaign?

Im sticking with splitting my vote...locally for Labour, nationally Lib Dem...but I was briefly tempted to go Labour watching footage of the 1992 election...I remember well that feeling of hope dashed when the Tories won...

But then I tuned into hard-right wing US channel Fox News, who were praising Blair to the skies for his support of GW Bush...

Which neatly firmed up my Lib Dem support!

Grachka
May 5th, 2005, 09:33 AM
Today is the day then!

Has anyone here actually changed their mind in this campaign?

Im sticking with splitting my vote...locally for Labour, nationally Lib Dem...but I was briefly tempted to go Labour watching footage of the 1992 election...I remember well that feeling of hope dashed when the Tories won...

But then I tuned into hard-right wing US channel Fox News, who were praising Blair to the skies for his support of GW Bush...

Which neatly firmed up my Lib Dem support!
It turns out that I won't get a vote after all, as my postal vote was too late and they have said they won't accept a procksee (don't know why it is censoring the proper spelling of that???) :(

I would have voted SNP, so I shall turn my attention to convincing my mother to convert to them :devil:

The Russians have shown painfully little of it on TV, but we did get Saint Blair on it yesterday and a rather frightening picture of "Casual" Howard :p

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
May 5th, 2005, 12:52 PM
Good luck everyone -- I hope the Lib Dems surprise everyone ;)

Halardfan
May 5th, 2005, 02:49 PM
I just hope the Lib Dems can add a few seats...the messages are very mixed right now...and that the Tories don't gain much.

In the election as a whole, most observers reckon it will be a Labour majority of 70-90 seats...though there were reports that Labour were worried after counting some of the postal votes in a safe Labour seat...they came out quite even...if thats were reflective of the wider result then Labour think they would be in trouble...

I don't understand the many hours of queueing that went on in parts of America in their election...when I voted today, they only other people at my Polling station were the two old ladies administering the vote, yet our turnout will be of a similar level to the US...

Anyone would think they don't want certain people to vote in America. (Cough;))

Lord Nelson
May 5th, 2005, 03:36 PM
The Labour party is well ahead in the polls. SO much for the Iraqi worries. They had no effect on the voting. Yes I know the tories also were for the war but not the lib dems who are far from being a marginal group. They have had members of their party who were PM's such as David Lloyd George. Also Iraq war was no effect in elections in Australia, U.S. and even Spain where the resulted outcome was more due the handling of March 11 investigations by outgoing government than due to Iraq.

Monica_Rules
May 5th, 2005, 05:34 PM
I voted for the Liberal Democrats by postal vote last week. So i've made my choice.

I think Labour will win with a majority of around 100.

Lib Dems will get between 60-80 seats and around 25% of the vote

The tories will prob gain a few seats to around 180 at best.

Bezz
May 5th, 2005, 07:25 PM
Made my vote for labour today :cool:. Its already a labour seat but i just wanted to make sure. I hope the lib dems get a few more seats, i was being tempted to vote for them, but i dont think they are ready to run the country just yet :) .