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View Full Version : (1) Lindsay Davenport Def. (5) Venus Williams 1-6, 6-3, 6-4


!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:44 PM
:woohoo:

lizchris
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:44 PM
Wasted oportunities by Venus.

Great match by both, though.

!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:49 PM
can u delete this, mine was first :)

!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:50 PM
Good match, really happy for Lindsay :)

Mrs. Peel
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:50 PM
Great Match Lindsay and Venus!


Venus you are getting better and I am proud of you....let's hope clay brings the breakthrough you are hoping for!

Lindsay! Great fighting back! You hold that #1 spot woman!!!!!!

VRee_Willario
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:51 PM
Lindsay, I no longer like you!
Venus, sloppy errors at 6-1 1-1 Linds serving at 15-40 grew costly. But playing like in the 1st set, you're gonna win some Grand Slams :worship: :worship:

lizchris
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:51 PM
can u delete this, mine was first :)

NO

!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:52 PM
this one was first :( oh well. heres the stats :



Match Statistics
Player 1 2 3
Lindsay Davenport (USA) [1] 1 6 6
Venus Williams (USA) [5] 6 3 4
Elapsed Time By Set 25 33 34

Match Summary Davenport Williams
1st Serve % 65% 75%
Aces 1 7
Double Faults 4 3
Winning % - 1st Serve Pts. 42 of 58 = 72% 39 of 58 = 67%
Winning % - 2nd Serve Pts. 15 of 31 = 48% 11 of 19 = 58%
Winners (including service) 21 34
Unforced Errors 22 31
Break Point Conversions 2 of 8 = 25 % 2 of 12 = 17 %
Net Approaches 6 of 8 = 75 % 12 of 15 = 80 %
Total Points Won 84 82
Fastest Match Serve Speed 116 MPH 122 MPH
Average Match Serve Speed 104 MPH 106 MPH

badunka
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:52 PM
Wtg Lindsay! Great match!

craigsf2000
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:52 PM
[QUOTE=Mrs. Peel]Great Match Lindsay and Venus!

I love when LD wins the tough 3's. It shows great spirit and heart and guts. She will have a great 05.

hotandspicey
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:52 PM
Good match, but too many forehand errors from Venus. Congrats to Lindsay. Nice win. venus had her chances--she should have taken them!!:rolleyes:

Mase
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Go ahead Lindsay way to hang in there and win... Shows you are the #1 player!!

Hell of a fight V, good to see her back in form again.. ;)

Cariaoke
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Great match for both but 3-3 second set was the turning point. I might keep that on tape. :lol:

LeRoy.
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Congrats Lindsay. This is what her fourth staright victory over Venus ? And the H2H is now 13-10 in her favour right ?

bandabou
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Tjaaa.......well, these used to be the matches Venus loved to win....anyways, congrats to Lindsay....way to hang tough.

!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Congrats Lindsay. This is what her fourth staright victory over Venus ? And the H2H is now 13-10 in her favour right ?

not sure about h2h, but fourth straight win, yes.

thelittlestelf
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Sorry if I sould bitter, but Venus wasted opportunities and there was no reason for her to lose. Her forehand looked absolutely textbook in the first set, and as soon as it got tight it broke down.

On the other hand, I'm very happy for Lindsay :hearts: because she not only is into the semis, but also is going to be #1 until after charleston given she has a good showing there!

Good luck next round, Lindsay :D. Venus, just keep doing what you're doing, and it will all come in time.

Alek
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM
lindsay :woohoo:

TomTennis
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM
venus....im soo proud of you!

I think Richard is gonna take the positives out of this match and make venus work on them ready for Charleston next week!

I cant wait to see Venus play the Family Circle Cup! Go Venus!!!!!!!!!

!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Go ahead Lindsay way to hang in there and win... Shows you are the #1 player!!

Hell of a fight V, good to see her back in form again.. ;)

:wavey: Hey chris! Hows it going?

badunka
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:54 PM
the Hingis career parallel continues!

Paneru
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:55 PM
Yep, Venus is there but isn't yet the pressure player
she once was but I'm so proud of the effort!

Match Statistics

Player 1 2 3
Lindsay Davenport (USA) [1] 1 6 6
Venus Williams (USA) [5] 6 3 4
Elapsed Time By Set 25 33 34

Match Summary Davenport Williams
1st Serve % 65% 75%
Aces 1 7
Double Faults 4 3
Winning % - 1st Serve Pts. 42 of 58 = 72% 39 of 58 = 67%
Winning % - 2nd Serve Pts. 15 of 31 = 48% 11 of 19 = 58%
Winners (including service) 21 34
Unforced Errors 22 31
Break Point Conversions 2 of 8 = 25 % 2 of 12 = 17 %
Net Approaches 6 of 8 = 75 % 12 of 15 = 80 %
Total Points Won 84 82
Fastest Match Serve Speed 116 MPH 122 MPH
Average Match Serve Speed 104 MPH 106 MPH


She's right there and just has to break through.

I was watching the match with my friend and said that it's good for Venus to have to face these pressure situations and I knew it would be tough for her to get it and had a feeling she may not. I then said it'd be good for her to finally get one of these in the lesser tournaments for when the Slams come
and he said, "knowing anything she'll wait until the Slams to finally do it under pressure"!

I would love that!

Hang tough Venus!

Congrats Lindsay!

Ryan
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:56 PM
Congrats Lindsay. This is what her fourth staright victory over Venus ? And the H2H is now 13-10 in her favour right ?


I think it's 14-10, but you're probably right.


Too bad Venus couldn't retain her high level for three sets, hopefully she'll do better in Warsaw? or is she playing Charleston next week?


Lindsay :bounce: I smell another AI title, only Shinobu, and Serena next. :eek: ;)

V-MAC
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:56 PM
....I'm interested waiting to hear Kabuke's thoughts on this match.

1jackson2001
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:57 PM
Same old story again for Venus. Plays well but can't convert break points when the end of the match starts looming in sight. :o It's been happening for awhile now. :sad: Your physical game is getting back, now get your mental game back please. :)

congrats Lindsay for holding tough and winning it! :cool:

Leo_DFP
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:57 PM
[QUOTE=Mrs. Peel]Great Match Lindsay and Venus!

I love when LD wins the tough 3's. It shows great spirit and heart and guts. She will have a great 05.

Yes, very satisfying to win in 3 after her 3 upsetting 3-set losses this season. Davenport never got in her groove (the first two games may have been the best play she showed all day :lol: ) but she pulled through and that's what matters for now.

And congrats to Venus for an amazing first set. This is another step in the right direction.

bandabou
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:58 PM
Hmmm.....still isn't completely over the hump, I guess...

Serendy Willick
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:58 PM
I think it's 14-10, but you're probably right.


Too bad Venus couldn't retain her high level for three sets, hopefully she'll do better in Warsaw? or is she playing Charleston next week?


Lindsay :bounce: I smell another AI title, only Shinobu, and Razzano/Vera? next. :eek:


Not if Little Sis has anything to say about it:fiery: :fiery: :p

VRee_Willario
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
I'm absolutely unbeliviably SAD and depressed :sad: :sad:

lizchris
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Congrats Lindsay. This is what her fourth staright victory over Venus ? And the H2H is now 13-10 in her favour right ?

More like 14-12.

foreva lindsay
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Wahoooooo Lindsay!!!

Paneru
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
I think it's 14-10, but you're probably right.


14-12?

Tennisaddict
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Congrats Lindsay :yeah:.

Better luck next time Venus, and stop wasting your chances :fiery:.

!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
What the hell happened? how did the threads combine? :o

Leo_DFP
Apr 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Nooooo. The H2H is now 14-12 for Davenport.

bandabou
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:00 PM
wonder what's happening to pressure-cooker Venus.....lately seems like as soon as it 3-3 4-3 in a set, Venus crumbles..not like it used to be.

Paneru
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:01 PM
I'm absolutely unbeliviably SAD and depressed :sad: :sad:

Don't be! :D

Take this as inspiration that Venus has it in her now
just has to keep it up at the big momnets.

As someone said, her physisical game is there
and she just has to work on that mental game now.


Yeah, sad but inspired!

~Cherry*Blossom~
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:01 PM
h2h is 14-12 to Lindsay

Venus you should have won. But it's great to see you coming back into form.

Lindsay, way to keep tough. You played smart, you knew Venus would slip at some point and then you pounced. I hope you make it to the final (but don't win, because I want Serena to :p )

Leo_DFP
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:01 PM
What the hell happened? how did the threads combine? :o

Good question. :lol:

EDIT: Another test for Davenport in the next round. Petrova on clay. Actually this match reminded me very much of the Petrova semifinal in Amelia Island last year, and not just because of the same set scores (in different order). Davenport's opponent coming out and playing awesome in the first, barely losing points on serve. Either being up a break or having chances to break in the second but not closing out. Davenport staying solid enough and gradually improving her play to win in 3.

A Lindsay/Serena final rematch would be :drool:, so cheers to that.

Ryan
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:01 PM
Not if Little Sis has anything to say about it:fiery: :fiery: :p

I honestly forgot Serena was playing, b ut I edited my post. ;)

Paneru
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:01 PM
wonder what's happening to pressure-cooker Venus.....lately seems like as soon as it 3-3 4-3 in a set, Venus crumbles..not like it used to be.

I think like her physiscal form, it's taking
time to also get her complete mental form.

Be encouraged! :D

Sportfan
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:03 PM
Venus's stats look very good too bad she couldn't have walked away with the win. She had her chances but couldn't make it happen I don't know whether it is wanting it too much or what. Hopefully she has the break through that is looking closer than ever at a Grand Slam.

tterb
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:04 PM
Wow. Lindsay came out firing in the very first game, but couldn't pull off the break. After that, Venus played simply stunningly to win the set. If she plays like that consistently, she'll be a huge force at the upcoming majors. :eek:

I thought Lindsay seemed flat-footed and wasn't hitting well through the first two sets... but surprisingly, she fought and hung on. Venus probably should have capitalized on her multiple second set opportunities, but her level dropped and errors started creeping into her game.

Lindsay started hitting the ball beautifully in the third set, and Venus fought well but just never was able to bring her level back to where it was in the first set.

Congratulations, Lindsay! :D Take the title!
Nice effort, Venus. If nothing else, this match showed your desire... and for a good portion of the match, you showed that you still have what it takes to be back at the top - just need to get back your mental strength.

bw2082
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:04 PM
Lindsay! :worship: I thought for sure you'd tank it but you proved me wrong :lol:

LeRoy.
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:05 PM
The way i see it, Venus played well and Lindsay was up and down yet Venus ended up losing the match. Same was the case against Maria last week.

i.e. Venus is now losing even when she plays well.:)

VRee_Willario
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:06 PM
Don't be! :D

Take this as inspiration that Venus has it in her now
just has to keep it up at the big momnets.

As someone said, her physisical game is there
and she just has to work on that mental game now.


Yeah, sad but inspired!
Yeah, I'm sure Venus will be ready now and will do really well in Charleston the French open and Wimbledon. It was amazing the 1st set, keep playing like that Venus!

foreva lindsay
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:06 PM
More like 14-12.

yep thats it

lizchris
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:07 PM
The way i see it, Venus played well and Lindsay was up and down yet Venus ended up losing the match. Same was the case against Maria last week.

i.e. Venus is now losing even when she plays well.:)


It's called not taking the opportunities when you have them.

Teemu
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:07 PM
Go Linds! :)
Atleast Lindsay's serve was crap in the first set, maybe she pulled it together. Great way to fight it out, hope you'll win the tournament.

1jackson2001
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:07 PM
The way i see it, Venus played well and Lindsay was up and down yet Venus ended up losing the match. Same was the case against Maria last week.

i.e. Venus is now losing even when she plays well.:)

i.e. Venus can win these matches but is still not there yet mentally. :)

VRee_Willario
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:08 PM
The way i see it, Venus played well and Lindsay was up and down yet Venus ended up losing the match. Same was the case against Maria last week.

i.e. Venus is now losing even when she plays well.:)
She played well expect those break point conversations, she had more errors and winners than Lindsay.
Good Luck Venus! :)

Harju.
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:09 PM
Congrats Lindsay :yeah:.

hablo
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:09 PM
Wow! I guess Lindsay really wants that #1 ranking!!! Dang!! Too bad I didn't get to see this match!!! Better luck next time Vee!!! congratzzzzzz to Lindsay! ;)

!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:10 PM
i.e. Venus can win these matches but is still not there yet mentally. :)

I agree with you there, but, this is Venus and she should have sorted it out by now.

I'll admit I missed most of the second set, and have 15 minutes of Maggie and the Ferocious beast during it because I had a match to play on xbox live :o But, from what I saw, it wasnt nothing special. Lindsay had like 1 ace and only really played well for a handful of games, it could have gone either way imo.

Ryan
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:11 PM
It's called not taking the opportunities when you have them.


But those opportunities can also be denied when your opponent plays better that point. So it cant be called "wasting" them, if your opponent beats you in that situation.

Angel_Mars
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:14 PM
Lindsay! :worship: I thought for sure you'd tank it but you proved me wrong :lol:

I thought the same thing, Lindsay just looked so distracted for the first half of this match, like she didn't care if she won or lost. Then she got herself going and started striking the ball so much better and taking control. Nice battle back against herself, for Lindsay.

lizchris
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:14 PM
But those opportunities can also be denied when your opponent plays better that point. So it cant be called "wasting" them, if your opponent beats you in that situation.


Wasting, not taking them, whatever. The fact is that Venus had more break opportunities than Lindsay did and had she taken one in the second set, the result would have been different.

VRee_Willario
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:14 PM
But those opportunities can also be denied when your opponent plays better that point. So it cant be called "wasting" them, if your opponent beats you in that situation.
Well, Venus had 7 break points in the second set and made and UFE in 6 of them! But Venus will be even angrier after this match and breezes trough the draw in Charleston!

selyoink
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:15 PM
Good win for Davenport after a bad opening set. Venus can't waste opportunities like this. She just can't quite get over the hump against top players any more. At least not with any consistency.

RVD
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:16 PM
Wish I could've seen this match, because then I'd have a better perspective than what the stats suggest (which to me don't look all that great for Vee). She seriously squandered some break point opportunities...again, judging from the stats. :sad:
However, I hope she continues her positive improvement. :yeah:
At any rate, CONGRATS to Lindsay! :) She's kicking butt and taking names this year. And to think she wanted to retire. :rolleyes: :lol:

VRee_Willario
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:18 PM
Good win for Davenport after a bad opening set. Venus can't waste opportunities like this. She just can't quite get over the hump against top players any more. At least not with any consistency.
Lindsay didn't have a bad opening set, Both Lindsay and Venus had 9 Unforced errors, but Venus had 17 winners to Lindsay's 3 and was very succesful at the net. Lindsay was even serving at 67%. I really believe in Venus when she says that when she plays her best she's the best. :worship:

mishar
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:19 PM
The thing is, Venus is having a lot of trouble closing out matches. She had the opportunities to close this one out, and let it slip, and it's becoming a disturbing pattern. The same thing almost happened against Serena: she played a great first set, but came close to letting the second slip away. It happened in Antwerp against Mauresmo and in Molik in Australia she just played the big points not as well. Her game in the first set is good enough, but she has to get her mental strength back again. perhaps one breakthrough win will give her confidence again, but I'm afraid letting leads slips away starts getting in your head after a while.

!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:19 PM
But those opportunities can also be denied when your opponent plays better that point. So it cant be called "wasting" them, if your opponent beats you in that situation.

It wasnt as if Lindsay was aceing or played flawless tennis on the BP's against her, venus was hitting a lot of errors. But, Lindsay was getting some quality first serves in at crucial points in the third (dont know about the second). So it was a combination of both, Venus should have took more of the opportunity's.

volta
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Vee just needs to close this matchs against the top 10 she is wasting to many break points

cometz9
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Congrats to Lindsay but Venus :sad: so many lost opportunities in this match....I hope u play much better in Charleston :yeah:

davidmario
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:21 PM
Vee :( Should have won the match in straight sets >:(

lizchris
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:22 PM
Good win for Davenport after a bad opening set. Venus can't waste opportunities like this. She just can't quite get over the hump against top players any more. At least not with any consistency.

She is doing a lot better this year than the person in your avata:rolleyes: r. Has Myskina even beat anyone in the top ten this year? At least Venus has beaten two and gave two others a run for their money.

-cata-
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:26 PM
Venus :sad:

LiliaLee-Frazier
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:26 PM
Nice win Lindsay!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :worship:

VRee_Willario
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:27 PM
She is doing a lot better this year than the person in your avata:rolleyes: r. Has Myskina even beat anyone in the top ten this year? At least Venus has beaten two and gave two others a run for their money.

Well said :D , I like Anastasia though

Jakeev
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Glad to see Lindsay stayed so positive after getting clobbered in the first set. I was worried Linds would end up losing the match easily, but she hung in there and took the match.

GOOD JOB BABY!!!!!!:kiss:

1jackson2001
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:31 PM
But those opportunities can also be denied when your opponent plays better that point. So it cant be called "wasting" them, if your opponent beats you in that situation.

It's more mental for Venus than Lindsay raising her game. Venus can hit great winners with her FH but it tends to break down whenever she gets a chance to break. She still doesn't quite have the belief yet back in her mind. Due credit to Lindsay too of course, as she fully deserved this win.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:36 PM
OK. I fell alseep and Lindsay wins against Venus for the 4th straight time. Go figure. I NEED to see this match so if anyone recorded this match than private message me. I'm willing to pay 25 bucks for it.

Cilla
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:37 PM
Wow, I turned the channel over at 6-1, 3-3. Venus seemed to be in control...

Anyway, well done Lindsay :banana:

nysaga
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:43 PM
I get the impression that most people on this board know very little about the game of tennis. They think a person winning one set and the match is over. Have you all heard this saying that it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

So to all of you, stop being bandwagoners of your favorite players and go out and play the game. It'll help you understand the game instead of making stupid comments out of your @ss

Jeleno Benesovo
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:45 PM
Thank you Lindsay for kicking Venus's ass :banana:

raquel
Apr 8th, 2005, 07:59 PM
Disappointing for Venus as she had good chances in that match. It just seemed that when she got break points in the second and third sets she was either hitting the top of the net or an inch past the baseline. She was playing very well in the first set. Shame she couldn't get one of those break points at 3-3 in the second set - that was the crucial part of the match. I think Venus was 2/12 on break points and that's where she lost it.

Denise4925
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:00 PM
:sad: Vee...mental errors and sloppy play lost another match for you. Congrats to Lindsay for taking advantage of the opportunities presented and winning the match. I hope Vee walks away from this with some perspective of where she is mentally in the game.

Joana
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:01 PM
:yippee:
I didn't know this match was supposed to be played today. :o
Lindsay :yeah: :kiss:

VRee_Willario
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:02 PM
Disappointing for Venus as she had good chances in that match. It just seemed that when she got break points in the second and third sets she was either hitting the top of the net or an inch past the baseline. She was playing very well in the first set. Shame she couldn't get one of those break points at 3-3 in the second set - that was the crucial part of the match. I think Venus was 2/12 on break points and that's where she lost it.
Good post, exactly my opinion :worship:

lindsayno1
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:11 PM
Lindsay didnt play shit by any standards in the first set... she was simply outplayed.... Venus was amazing!!!!

Quality tennis in the second and third set from Lindsay.

she didnt look pissed off or bored, just a look and focus of total concentration!

Lindsay i love you!

VRee_Willario
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:13 PM
Lindsay didnt play shit by any standards in the first set... she was simply outplayed.... Venus was amazing!!!!

Quality tennis in the second and third set from Lindsay.

she didnt look pissed off or bored, just a look and focus of total concentration!

Lindsay i love you!
Good post!
I'm happy Venus was beaten by a nice player. :)
Not by... :tape:

uNIVERSEmAN
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:45 PM
Venus' forehand sux. She needs some serious instruction from a professional.

thelittlestelf
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:47 PM
Venus' forehand sux. She needs some serious instruction from a professional.Thank you so much for this genius, well thought out, and original take on this loss! :worship:

lindsayno1
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:48 PM
Lmao!

Denise4925
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:49 PM
Thank you so much for this genius, well thought out, and original take on this loss! :worship:
:lol:

abcd155
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:52 PM
Lindsay :D Great Job! I hope for a Lindsay-Serena AO rematch. Amazing First Set Venus! Just keep working hard and you'll be back. :)

!<blocparty>!
Apr 8th, 2005, 08:55 PM
guys, ignore.

PatM04
Apr 8th, 2005, 09:15 PM
Congrats to Lindsay:)

Julia1968
Apr 8th, 2005, 09:41 PM
Congrats to Linds!

Take home this title!

yukon145
Apr 8th, 2005, 09:48 PM
great job Lindsay, take the title! Lindsay sure has been playing great tennis againt Venus lately to take some close matches, i love it!

Kelly
Apr 8th, 2005, 09:49 PM
its great to see venus back and im happy for her thats its coming together now

lindsay....well done girl..now take the title.

i think this is gonna be a great year with both williams back, the belgians, lindsay fighting it out again...all we need now is jennifer back and the tour is rocking again

jonny84
Apr 8th, 2005, 09:52 PM
:bigclap: Lindsay - it was a great comeback.

Never mind Vee - a QF is still a QF - now head over to Charleston and reclaim your crown there. :bounce:

Elldee
Apr 8th, 2005, 10:01 PM
I was really excited about this match in the first game when Lindsay was moving well and it looked great, then I was a bit bored because Lindsay looked like a player ranked about 50 because Venus was kicking her arse. Then Venus choked or something and Lindsay edged the second set out when Venus should have won 6-1 6-4. In Lindsay's favour she won the second set in the end [at least her last service game] and her winning of the third set was a combination of Venus' errors AND some great play. It's a good quarter final and things look set for a fifth straight final.

UDiTY
Apr 8th, 2005, 10:09 PM
Vee:sad:

You need to win one of these close matches over a top player!

Four straight losses to Lindsay, after winning so many in a row is unacceptible. Hopefully she can capitalize on this loss and have a great clay court season.

rightous
Apr 8th, 2005, 10:09 PM
Well Done Lindsay, she ride the storm and played really well at the end, but Venus is a great fighter

JenFan75
Apr 8th, 2005, 10:21 PM
LINDSAY!!! :bounce: :hearts:

GOOD JOB! :)

jimbo mack
Apr 8th, 2005, 10:21 PM
just got in

sounds like i missed a great match

well done lindsay :)

Lemonskin.
Apr 8th, 2005, 11:27 PM
Awesome!

selking
Apr 8th, 2005, 11:27 PM
thats how you do it linds. Now take out the younger sis in the final

Lemonskin.
Apr 8th, 2005, 11:28 PM
What about Venus being the clay queen? Clay has gotta be Lindsay's worst surface :p

Volcana
Apr 8th, 2005, 11:39 PM
:(

Irish
Apr 8th, 2005, 11:42 PM
Great match Lindsay! Now, win the title! :bounce:

selking
Apr 8th, 2005, 11:44 PM
O Levo thanks, I forgot it was on clay. I don't think either one of them are really clay experts but Davenport is just playing better all around then venus is right now because davenport hasn't had any really bad weaknesses while venus has got that damn forehand. venus put up a good fight today.

Nemesis
Apr 8th, 2005, 11:59 PM
Vee :sad: Winning this tourney would've done her good. Especially after a good but not perfect Miami run. But if you guys and girls say she played well ... Swing it back at Charleston :)

Congrats to Linds :kiss: So far she can keep up with her impressive 2004.

RVD
Apr 9th, 2005, 12:01 AM
Thank you so much for this genius, well thought out, and original take on this loss! :worship:Yep! His analysis was scintillating! :haha: I swear I was hanging onto :lol: every word he uttered.

I'm not worried about Venus. The fact that she now has her game face on tells me that her best tennis isn't too far behind. Besides, this isn't a slam, so I feel Vee has time to make the necessary corrections to polish up on her overall game.
YOUR FANS ARE HERE FOR YOU VEE!! :wavey:

deja_entendu
Apr 9th, 2005, 02:13 AM
:rolls: Venus has been playing great by her standards recently, only to be beaten into the ground by Masha and Lindsay. Simply put, she'll never return to the top of the game again with those horribly late, open-stanced groundies. They don't cut it in 2005.

Julia1968
Apr 9th, 2005, 02:21 AM
She is doing a lot better this year than the person in your avata:rolleyes: r. Has Myskina even beat anyone in the top ten this year? At least Venus has beaten two and gave two others a run for their money.

Other than Serena, what other top 5 players has Venus beaten since July 2003???

VeeReeDavJCap81
Apr 9th, 2005, 02:21 AM
:rolls: Venus has been playing great by her standards recently, only to be beaten into the ground by Masha and Lindsay. Simply put, she'll never return to the top of the game again with those horribly late, open-stanced groundies. They don't cut it in 2005.

Maybe you didn't see the match. But in the first set, Venus' forehand was smoking and even Pam Shriver made a comment about it saying it looked like Venus was tinkering with her forehand. Don't sleep on Venus, she's very intelligent and knows what it takes to get her game back. Wimbledon 2003 wasn't that long ago, and remember how great she played then after going through a small slump. And don't say there wasn't any depth in the game then, because Clijsters and Henin were winning everything the sisters weren't playing.

And since when is 6-4 in the 3rd considered "beaten in to the ground"??

bis2806
Apr 9th, 2005, 02:59 AM
Wow I AM ALSO impressed with Lindsay because she usually sort of gives up if she loses a first set - and especially against venus it's not easy. Way to go Lindsay! I don't think Lindsay played well though but I am really happy she pulled it off eventually.

Veritas
Apr 9th, 2005, 03:24 AM
Poor Venus! She played so well in the first set...what happened? I hope it wasn't an injury or something...she needs to defend her title in Charleston!

And congrats Lindsay!!! :woohoo: :yeah: She's managed to fool me with her body language in the 1st set - I thought she was going to lose to Venus by the way her shoulders were slumping. But I think people are underestimating Lindsay as a genuine fighter.

Denise4925
Apr 9th, 2005, 03:29 AM
Poor Venus! She played so well in the first set...what happened? I hope it wasn't an injury or something...she needs to defend her title in Charleston!

And congrats Lindsay!!! :woohoo: :yeah: She's managed to fool me with her body language in the 1st set - I thought she was going to lose to Venus by the way her shoulders were slumping. But I think people are underestimating Lindsay as a genuine fighter.
Venus really played a great three sets. Just as she did against Sharapova, she had one sloppy game in the second and third sets and she lost her serve. You can't play sloppily against Serena, Lindsay and Maria, they know how to take advantage.

"Topaz"
Apr 9th, 2005, 03:42 AM
113 posts and counting. Huh! It's over, folks: Davey won and Venus lost.
You may keep marching on :dog: :sport:. However, the players are gone and Elvis has long left the building.

Denise4925
Apr 9th, 2005, 03:54 AM
113 posts and counting. Huh! It's over, folks: Davey won and Venus lost.
You may keep marching on :dog: :sport:. However, the players are gone and Elvis has long left the building.
:lol:

Mattographer
Apr 9th, 2005, 04:42 AM
Lindsay! :yeah:

Jakeev
Apr 9th, 2005, 05:02 AM
Again, the biggest positive for Lindsay is she did not let herself get down after getting her brains bashed in by Venus in the first set.

Why Venus did not do the same in the second I just don't know, but Lindsay definitely hung in there even though her movement was terrible.

-Kieron-
Apr 9th, 2005, 07:25 AM
Awww Venus! So thought you had this! :)

Good fight tho Lindsay!

!<blocparty>!
Apr 9th, 2005, 07:38 AM
Lindsay doesnt give up after losing the first, she normally fights in the second and tanks the third, like I thought would happen today :) She's showing us why she's world number 1 for a reason.

Chunchun
Apr 9th, 2005, 10:54 AM
Venus :fiery: :banghead:

tennisvideos
Apr 9th, 2005, 12:29 PM
Did anyone tape this match (prefer on DVD but video would be OK)

Send me a PM if you can make a copy for me. Happy to buy or trade.

Cheers :)

starr
Apr 9th, 2005, 12:42 PM
What about Venus being the clay queen? Clay has gotta be Lindsay's worst surface :p

Good point. :)

But, Lindsay won AI last year (beating Mauresmo) and was in the final in 2003 losing to Dementieva and beating Capriati in the semis. I think her record is better on green clay.

Lindsay has been playing some amazing tennis recently. I don't usually like watching her play, but she's a great player, a delightful person, and I have to bow down to her now playing like a goddess in the twilight of her career.

Steffica Greles
Apr 9th, 2005, 01:55 PM
I'm just not convinced Venus wants it enough.

People here are starting to fall for her excuses and use them in her defence.

"I was just tired today, but it's getting better" (a deluded, egotistical classic of Kournikova's - and she never had the constancy to win a single WTA title), "I didn't take my opportunities, but I feel positive about this match...it's coming back", "If I'd played decent, I would have won".

Why does she feel tired when players who slog it out more often, don't? Why doesn't she "play decent" when she needs to? When will "it" come back?

It all lies in whether she wants "it" to, whether she wants to "play decent" and whether she's motivated enough to hold the intensity long enough to take her opportunities.

If you ask me, that's what's missing - and until Venus admits THAT to herself, these "nearly" results won't change.

Smackie
Apr 9th, 2005, 02:07 PM
I think Venus wants to win alright. Whether she believes in herself is another thing.

I wanted her to win yesterday so badly. Some great great tennis from her - that down the line pass was nothing short of magic - even Lindsay applauded. But there were so many silly UFE and opportunities wasted too.....10(?) BPs and not one taken? Blind me.

Nevermind, she can only play better from now on.

Vut
Apr 9th, 2005, 02:10 PM
:sad: Venus!

Steffica Greles
Apr 9th, 2005, 02:16 PM
But Venus has always believed in herself, not just in tennis, but in every aspect of her life. Whether you admire this trait or find it arrogant, self belief is certainly something that was instilled in the Williams' from their father, Richard, and they've never lacked any in those areas.

But at the moment it's a deluded self belief. She believes in herself, but she isn't really asking herself why she's out there. There's not much purpose. Both the Williams' have always suffered from this problem a little, but with Venus it's really taken it's toll on her career over the last 18 months-2 years. She's been 4 years without a slam - now, that's a long, long time in tennis. Martina Navratilova, Steffi Graf, Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Chris Evert, thus far Lindsay Davenport, EVEN Monica Seles, in spite of her absence, never went that long between slams.

As Venus said the other day, she has the athletic ability to lift herself. I still think in some areas she's a more formidable opponent that Serena.

But she has to want it, like all the aforementioned players had to. And that's what's lacking, not self belief. It's classic denial syndrome, denial that there's a problem. She's no reason to keep having these huge lulls in matches that are ultimately costly if above all else she wants to win them.

Experimentee
Apr 9th, 2005, 04:07 PM
I've been saying this for ages, Venus needs to get it together mentally. She cant keep squandering break points for the rest of her career. She will never win another Slam or even another tournament if she keeps choking like this.

spencercarlos
Apr 9th, 2005, 08:51 PM
Good match, but too many forehand errors from Venus. Congrats to Lindsay. Nice win. venus had her chances--she should have taken them!!:rolleyes:
This is the same story of Venus`s late losses. She obviously can`t be consistent on that forehand, its been proved time after time over the last years. And she still is not making any changes..

Nonetheless Losing to Lindsay on clay is not a very good sign at all. Was not Venus the superb clay courter of last year? :rolleyes:

spencercarlos
Apr 9th, 2005, 08:55 PM
I'm just not convinced Venus wants it enough.

People here are starting to fall for her excuses and use them in her defence.

"I was just tired today, but it's getting better" (a deluded, egotistical classic of Kournikova's - and she never had the constancy to win a single WTA title), "I didn't take my opportunities, but I feel positive about this match...it's coming back", "If I'd played decent, I would have won".

Why does she feel tired when players who slog it out more often, don't? Why doesn't she "play decent" when she needs to? When will "it" come back?

It all lies in whether she wants "it" to, whether she wants to "play decent" and whether she's motivated enough to hold the intensity long enough to take her opportunities.

If you ask me, that's what's missing - and until Venus admits THAT to herself, these "nearly" results won't change.
Did she say once again that if she had played decently she would have won? :rolleyes:
She still think she is playing against Martina Hingis where she knew that if she was on, she would win that day.
Players have been able to adapt they can hit as hard as her, and she is suffering from that. Too bad she still thinks her game is 100% perfect and that only attitude will make her win... Why does she gets on the court time after time to lose and then say it was all about "oportunities" that she "did not take" or that if she had played a decent match would win. :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Apr 10th, 2005, 04:03 AM
But Venus has always believed in herself, not just in tennis, but in every aspect of her life. Whether you admire this trait or find it arrogant, self belief is certainly something that was instilled in the Williams' from their father, Richard, and they've never lacked any in those areas.

But at the moment it's a deluded self belief. She believes in herself, but she isn't really asking herself why she's out there. There's not much purpose. Both the Williams' have always suffered from this problem a little, but with Venus it's really taken it's toll on her career over the last 18 months-2 years. She's been 4 years without a slam - now, that's a long, long time in tennis. Martina Navratilova, Steffi Graf, Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Chris Evert, thus far Lindsay Davenport, EVEN Monica Seles, in spite of her absence, never went that long between slams.

As Venus said the other day, she has the athletic ability to lift herself. I still think in some areas she's a more formidable opponent that Serena.

But she has to want it, like all the aforementioned players had to. And that's what's lacking, not self belief. It's classic denial syndrome, denial that there's a problem. She's no reason to keep having these huge lulls in matches that are ultimately costly if above all else she wants to win them.

I'm not sure what you mean and maybe you can clarify it, but Lindsay hasn't won a slam since 2000. That's 5 years without a slam. :confused:

Denise4925
Apr 10th, 2005, 04:11 AM
Did she say once again that if she had played decently she would have won? :rolleyes:
She still think she is playing against Martina Hingis where she knew that if she was on, she would win that day.
Players have been able to adapt they can hit as hard as her, and she is suffering from that. Too bad she still thinks her game is 100% perfect and that only attitude will make her win... Why does she gets on the court time after time to lose and then say it was all about "oportunities" that she "did not take" or that if she had played a decent match would win. :rolleyes:
Well, as far as I know, she's never said if she'd played decently she would have won, and I've read all her interviews. Maybe someone needs to point that out to me. Secondly, it's not about hard hitting. Venus has been playing some very good tennis lately. She's coming back after injury and sometimes you have to get your confidence back and it just hasn't happened yet. I think it's coming back slowly but surely. The win over Serena surely helped. She was totally outplaying Lindsay in the first set, however in second and third, she had one sloppily played game and lost confidence in her forehand, which was extremely good in the beginning of that match. I think when she played those sloppy games, she lost concentration. It is about opportunities that she didn't take, she had many break points against Lindsay, especially in the 7th game of the second set, where she could have broken Lindsay to take the lead, up a break and a set at 40 love. She missed her opportunity there. She let Lindsay back in and lost three break chances. Lindsay won that game and went up 4-3. So, I think you're wrong in your assumptions about Venus' game. Just like Lindsay, it's not too late and her game is slowly but surely coming back.

cheo23
Apr 10th, 2005, 05:57 AM
Obviously U missed the interview she said after Losin to Lindsay AT STANFORd

she said " IF I HAD Played DEcent..I would have WON"

& all it TAkes is a "Sloppy GAME" TO LOSE a SET OR MATCH

Look at Lindsay SHE HAD opportunites in that 1st GAME of the 1st SET

6 BREAK POINTS MISSEd..she Regrouped & played BETTER(2nd & 3rd SETs) ...& FINISHED BETTER

THERefore SHE DEFEATED Venus 4 TIMES IN A ROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

CONGRATULATIONS LINDSAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :worship:

WE LOVE U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! :hearts:

spencercarlos
Apr 10th, 2005, 07:03 AM
Well, as far as I know, she's never said if she'd played decently she would have won, and I've read all her interviews. Maybe someone needs to point that out to me. Secondly, it's not about hard hitting. Venus has been playing some very good tennis lately. She's coming back after injury and sometimes you have to get your confidence back and it just hasn't happened yet. I think it's coming back slowly but surely. The win over Serena surely helped. She was totally outplaying Lindsay in the first set, however in second and third, she had one sloppily played game and lost confidence in her forehand, which was extremely good in the beginning of that match. I think when she played those sloppy games, she lost concentration. It is about opportunities that she didn't take, she had many break points against Lindsay, especially in the 7th game of the second set, where she could have broken Lindsay to take the lead, up a break and a set at 40 love. She missed her opportunity there. She let Lindsay back in and lost three break chances. Lindsay won that game and went up 4-3. So, I think you're wrong in your assumptions about Venus' game. Just like Lindsay, it's not too late and her game is slowly but surely coming back.
I can`t really tell that, losing to Davenport on clay is really a bad loss. Nothing to take away from Lindsay, because on a good day she can beat anyone.
She has not had any win to say she is in fact about to come back to grand slam winning form. In fact i really think that Serena kind of gave away the match ( if you watched Set point for Serena and the way she missed and did not even try to run on the lasts points you will know what im talking about), and her match vs Sharapova later confirmed that she is still lacking, probably desire? a better tecnique? mental toughness?... something is not there. And the worst part is that instead thinking of improving the game, she thinks and keeps saying how much she is "wasting" chances, "not executing when she should have" and things like that. Right now Venus is not in control, and she keeps thinking she is. Players know her forehand is weak when punished, and they are all over it. Its not too dificult to see, but until she sees that hole in her game, and starts to fix it, players will continue to find the way to beat her.
Venus is about to have a year without even a single title. And people think she is still coming back from injury... :s

Rub
Apr 10th, 2005, 07:18 AM
i just like lindsay when she beats venus like that!

VRee_Willario
Apr 10th, 2005, 12:55 PM
I can`t really tell that, losing to Davenport on clay is really a bad loss. Nothing to take away from Lindsay, because on a good day she can beat anyone.
She has not had any win to say she is in fact about to come back to grand slam winning form. In fact i really think that Serena kind of gave away the match ( if you watched Set point for Serena and the way she missed and did not even try to run on the lasts points you will know what im talking about), and her match vs Sharapova later confirmed that she is still lacking, probably desire? a better tecnique? mental toughness?... something is not there. And the worst part is that instead thinking of improving the game, she thinks and keeps saying how much she is "wasting" chances, "not executing when she should have" and things like that. Right now Venus is not in control, and she keeps thinking she is. Players know her forehand is weak when punished, and they are all over it. Its not too dificult to see, but until she sees that hole in her game, and starts to fix it, players will continue to find the way to beat her.
Venus is about to have a year without even a single title. And people think she is still coming back from injury... :s
A bad loss? Lindsay's the defending champion, beat A.Mauresmo 6-4 6-4
in the final. Lindsay hates red clay, green is undoubtedly diffrent. The red color just makes Lindsay dizzy, it's too bright color ;)

spencercarlos
Apr 10th, 2005, 02:47 PM
A bad loss? Lindsay's the defending champion, beat A.Mauresmo 6-4 6-4
in the final. Lindsay hates red clay, green is undoubtedly diffrent. The red color just makes Lindsay dizzy, it's too bright color ;)
Lindsay last year just scaped through, Petrova and faced an injured and tired Mauresmo in the final, as i said, not taking away credit from Lindsay, but this is definetly not her surface. Was not Venus considered by many the best clay courter of last year? Now Davenport should perform better than Venus on clay too? :rolleyes:
What is next for Venus? lose to Kuznetsova on grass?
The point is that she fails to see what her real problem is, and she keeps thinking its all about her attitude on court that is making the difference, when really its not. Players keep pounding on her weakness tournament after tournament and she thinks that she was in total control of the match. Look at her remarks on recent losses, starting last year first loss to Lindsay at that hard court event. Now she is even losing on clay to Lindsay, which is her worst surface.
She has to work her game not her mind set for the matches, the problem its in the game right now.

joaco
Apr 10th, 2005, 03:46 PM
i just like lindsay when she beats venus like that!

I love it too! It's one of the opponents I most enjoy Lindsay beating. :bounce:

VRee_Willario
Apr 10th, 2005, 04:46 PM
Lindsay last year just scaped through, Petrova and faced an injured and tired Mauresmo in the final, as i said, not taking away credit from Lindsay, but this is definetly not her surface. Was not Venus considered by many the best clay courter of last year? Now Davenport should perform better than Venus on clay too? :rolleyes:
What is next for Venus? lose to Kuznetsova on grass?
The point is that she fails to see what her real problem is, and she keeps thinking its all about her attitude on court that is making the difference, when really its not. Players keep pounding on her weakness tournament after tournament and she thinks that she was in total control of the match. Look at her remarks on recent losses, starting last year first loss to Lindsay at that hard court event. Now she is even losing on clay to Lindsay, which is her worst surface.
She has to work her game not her mind set for the matches, the problem its in the game right now.
It's not about past results, they are not playing with past results but with the racket, Lindsay has been playing really well in her last match, played well now. She's good on this surface. Venus played really well inthe first set, the had errors 9-9 but winners to Venus 17-3. Break points was the only problem, she just rushed and missed. Otherwise she would've won 6-1 6-3 or 6-1 6-4.
Lindsay is consistent and number one, she has beaten Jennifer here. :nerner:Lindsay and Venus play same kind of game I think they're even on green clay, Lindsay does play well here. I'd have been surprised if Arantxa or Martina had lost to Lindsay here. Lindsay and Venus play here like hard courts.
Well venus wins Wimbledon at least, so Amelia loss is not so bad, she played so well in the 1st set. When she's on (which she hasn't been lately) She beats Maria, kim, Justine, Svetlana and Lindsay in straight sets!

VRee_Willario
Apr 10th, 2005, 04:50 PM
Lindsay doesn't like France that's why she doesn't play well there.
Neither do I by the way!

HAIL-VENUS
Apr 10th, 2005, 05:10 PM
well, i think that venus just isn't as mentally tough as she used to be. i think that all of those losses to serena really affected her more strongly than she's willing to admit, even to herself, but the proof is showing in her play over the last few years. i don't think she has that match toughness that she once possessed, and the only way to get that back IS with a winning attitude and match play. i love venus's game and i'm a huge fan, but i'm not in denial. i just think she needs to be honest with herself and take a good hard long look at her declining game and work even harder on correcting those loose ends in her game (forehand, serve, silly ue's). now, there may also be another explaination for her tiredness. i remember maybe like 2001 or 2002 when venus pulled out of a tournament and took some time off because of anemia. she may be suffering from this disorder again, and it does make you tired especially if you're exerting as much energy as venus has to. if her blood is considerably low, then that will explain the tiredness, and i certainly know how that can effect you, even if you're just walking around each day. and the last point of venus losing because she didn't take her opportunities, i think she's absolutely right. in the first set against lindsay, she did exactly that. she took her opportunites and she won the set handily. despite lindsay picking up her game in the second and third sets, venus did lose the game on her racket as she's done so many times in the recent past. all venus's opponents have to do is hang around long enough for venus to start playing horrendous tennis and they ultimately come out with the win. it's a matter of venus becoming more patient, gaining consistency on her forehand and serve, being aggressive the entire match, and stringing together two great sets of that spectacular VEE-TENNIS that her fans all know and love. how she's gonna do this, i don't know, but she needs to find a way and real soon.

Denise4925
Apr 10th, 2005, 10:00 PM
I can`t really tell that, losing to Davenport on clay is really a bad loss. Nothing to take away from Lindsay, because on a good day she can beat anyone.
She has not had any win to say she is in fact about to come back to grand slam winning form. In fact i really think that Serena kind of gave away the match ( if you watched Set point for Serena and the way she missed and did not even try to run on the lasts points you will know what im talking about), and her match vs Sharapova later confirmed that she is still lacking, probably desire? a better tecnique? mental toughness?... something is not there. And the worst part is that instead thinking of improving the game, she thinks and keeps saying how much she is "wasting" chances, "not executing when she should have" and things like that. Right now Venus is not in control, and she keeps thinking she is. Players know her forehand is weak when punished, and they are all over it. Its not too dificult to see, but until she sees that hole in her game, and starts to fix it, players will continue to find the way to beat her.
Venus is about to have a year without even a single title. And people think she is still coming back from injury... :s
Well, I guess we see things from different perspectives. Where you think that she's not regaining her form, I think she is. Where you think that Serena tanked the match, I don't. Where you see that her form was not on against Maria, I saw it, because it was a difficult match for Maria to win. Maria said it herself. Also, when a person continues to complain about themself, e.g. "wasting" chances, "not executing when she should have" it doesn't exemplify a person who thinks they are in control, but that they still have some things to work on. The only hole I see in her game is confidence and mental lapses at the wrong time. I think she will have some titles this year. She had a couple last year and she's playing better this year in my opinion. She is still coming back from injury. It took Lindsay three years to get back to her form. Everyone gave Linds a break, give Venus one. Just when Linds herself was thinking of retiring, everything started to click. The same may happen for Venus. You're not a fan, so it's easy for you to give up on her, because you don't see her in the same light. I haven't given up and I won't, until she hangs her racquet up. Even then it won't be a matter of giving up, but celebrating what a fantastic ride it was.

Denise4925
Apr 10th, 2005, 10:01 PM
Obviously U missed the interview she said after Losin to Lindsay AT STANFORd

she said " IF I HAD Played DEcent..I would have WON"

& all it TAkes is a "Sloppy GAME" TO LOSE a SET OR MATCH

Look at Lindsay SHE HAD opportunites in that 1st GAME of the 1st SET

6 BREAK POINTS MISSEd..she Regrouped & played BETTER(2nd & 3rd SETs) ...& FINISHED BETTER

THERefore SHE DEFEATED Venus 4 TIMES IN A ROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

CONGRATULATIONS LINDSAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :worship:

WE LOVE U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! :hearts:
Yeah, like I believe you. :rolleyes: Post a link.

spencercarlos
Apr 10th, 2005, 11:37 PM
Well, I guess we see things from different perspectives. Where you think that she's not regaining her form, I think she is. Where you think that Serena tanked the match, I don't. Where you see that her form was not on against Maria, I saw it, because it was a difficult match for Maria to win. Maria said it herself. Also, when a person continues to complain about themself, e.g. "wasting" chances, "not executing when she should have" it doesn't exemplify a person who thinks they are in control, but that they still have some things to work on. The only hole I see in her game is confidence and mental lapses at the wrong time. I think she will have some titles this year. She had a couple last year and she's playing better this year in my opinion. She is still coming back from injury. It took Lindsay three years to get back to her form. Everyone gave Linds a break, give Venus one. Just when Linds herself was thinking of retiring, everything started to click. The same may happen for Venus. You're not a fan, so it's easy for you to give up on her, because you don't see her in the same light. I haven't given up and I won't, until she hangs her racquet up. Even then it won't be a matter of giving up, but celebrating what a fantastic ride it was.
I can understand your point of view, and im sure you as a fan you are really positive about Venus.
But her current for this year does not indicate that is she improving with each match.
As i said before, Venus has not won a tournament since she won Warsaw last year, that`s about a year winless streak. Do you think for a player that has won 4 grand slams and reached many many GS finals this is not something to be worried of?
Venus right now is reminding me of Martina Hingis 2001, where her poor service tecnique and strange forehand stroke let her down and let oponnents get the better of her.
Venus is not improving certainly, she is losing to players she used to beat with ease. Her forehand is a problem. But i guess someday she will see it.

Denise4925
Apr 10th, 2005, 11:42 PM
I can understand your point of view, and im sure you as a fan you are really positive about Venus.
But her current for this year does not indicate that is she improving with each match.
As i said before, Venus has not won a tournament since she won Warsaw last year, that`s about a year winless streak. Do you think for a player that has won 4 grand slams and reached many many GS finals this is not something to be worried of?
Venus right now is reminding me of Martina Hingis 2001, where her poor service tecnique and strange forehand stroke let her down and let oponnents get the better of her.
Venus is not improving certainly, she is losing to players she used to beat with ease. Her forehand is a problem. But i guess someday she will see it.
Again I beg to differ, she is improving and her forehand has improved tremendously. Even the commentators mentioned it in her match against Lindsay. Certainly she is not in GS form, because of her mental deficiencies from my perspective. But, others will see things differently if all you're looking for is a win and not the technical improvements and performance. But I guess someday, you will see it. :)

Steffica Greles
Apr 11th, 2005, 05:15 PM
I'm not sure what you mean and maybe you can clarify it, but Lindsay hasn't won a slam since 2000. That's 5 years without a slam. :confused:

That's exactly my point!! And although Lindsay's in with a shot, I don't expect her to win another. 5 years without a slam, and not likely to win one again...so look at Venus, and compare her situation. How was that not clear?

V-MAC
Apr 11th, 2005, 05:19 PM
eurgh.....can we just let this thread rest. I don't wanna be constantly reminded about the result. It was last week :o :mad: start a new thread if ye wanna argue over Lindsay's chances of winning another slam.

cheo23
Apr 11th, 2005, 05:28 PM
Again I beg to differ, she is improving and her forehand has improved tremendously. Even the commentators mentioned it in her match against Lindsay. Certainly she is not in GS form, because of her mental deficiencies from my perspective. But, others will see things differently if all you're looking for is a win and not the technical improvements and performance. But I guess someday, you will see it. :)
LOL..YES THE COMMENTATORS MENTIONED her FOREHAND WAS Improvin.. & PAM SHRIVER Kept Sayin Repeatedly that when the pressure is ON..her FOREHAND FALTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! look at her losses once the score gets to like 5 All or 5-4 or even 4 ALL..that SHOT SEEMS TO ABANDON HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully SHE CAn REMAIN CALM On that SIDE..WE'll SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES THERE IS A LINK TO HER REMARKS ON "IF I Play DECENT ETC ETC" On www.si.com...click on JON's MAilbag & go to last years StanFORD FINAL..where she was LESS THAN GRACIOUS IN HER LOST TO LINDSAY

spencercarlos
Apr 15th, 2005, 04:06 AM
Well, I guess we see things from different perspectives. Where you think that she's not regaining her form, I think she is. Where you think that Serena tanked the match, I don't. Where you see that her form was not on against Maria, I saw it, because it was a difficult match for Maria to win. Maria said it herself. Also, when a person continues to complain about themself, e.g. "wasting" chances, "not executing when she should have" it doesn't exemplify a person who thinks they are in control, but that they still have some things to work on. The only hole I see in her game is confidence and mental lapses at the wrong time. I think she will have some titles this year. She had a couple last year and she's playing better this year in my opinion. She is still coming back from injury. It took Lindsay three years to get back to her form. Everyone gave Linds a break, give Venus one. Just when Linds herself was thinking of retiring, everything started to click. The same may happen for Venus. You're not a fan, so it's easy for you to give up on her, because you don't see her in the same light. I haven't given up and I won't, until she hangs her racquet up. Even then it won't be a matter of giving up, but celebrating what a fantastic ride it was.
Interesting you were saying how much Venus was improving and arguing my point of view that she needed to work on her forehand tecnique :rolleyes: and you needed another early loss from Venus to realize and this?
I bet you were one among many people that said that Venus was rolling alone on clay last year and that Roland Garros 2004 was a sure win :rolleyes:...
Venus needs to get back to the drawing board, its not a question of attitude right now, its her limited tennis abilities (forehand) that are hurting her. You have to add to this that girls are hitting way better these days.. All kinds of troubles for Venus. She has a huge amount of points to defend until Wimbledon.

Denise i am bumping this because its interesting how a match could make you think exactly the opossite way and support what i was saying about Venus... well its ok
:wavey:

It is exhausting and we are not even taking into account travel. But, I still think she needs some technical work, because her forehand shouldn't break down like that to make so many errors. Even though it wasn't a blow out against Tati, but she may have been so tired in the second set that she had no gas left to fight. I don't know, but I hope things improve. It's like she's going backward, instead of forward.

selking
Apr 15th, 2005, 04:07 AM
bump???????

Denise4925
Apr 15th, 2005, 04:13 AM
Interesting you were saying how much Venus was improving and arguing my point of view that she needed to work on her forehand tecnique :rolleyes: and you needed another early loss from Venus to realize and this?
I bet you were one among many people that said that Venus was rolling alone on clay last year and that Roland Garros 2004 was a sure win :rolleyes:...
Venus needs to get back to the drawing board, its not a question of attitude right now, its her limited tennis abilities (forehand) that are hurting her. You have to add to this that girls are hitting way better these days.. All kinds of troubles for Venus. She has a huge amount of points to defend until Wimbledon.

Denise i am bumping this because its interesting how a match could make you think exactly the opossite way and support what i was saying about Venus... well its ok
:wavey:

You're right. I saw the light today. The errors weren't as massive in the last couple of matches as they were today. I'm just astonished at the result today. If she had played Golovin with the same form she played Serena, Lindsay and Maria should should have beaten her.

And, no I wasn't one to say that she would win RG this year. But, I did think she had a fantastic clay season last year and I expected better this year, because her form is better this year, in my opinion than last year. Anyway, I'm at a loss. I just think she needs some help from a fresh perspective on her game. Her forehand has improved, because it looks better, but I think she overthinks it, hoping that it doesn't break down and inevitably it does.

P.S. Don't misunderstand me when I say she's going backward instead of forward. What I mean is that it seems that she was taking steps forward and progressing in her form and game this season, but this loss makes it look like she's regressing from the forward progression.

spencercarlos
Apr 15th, 2005, 11:57 AM
You're right. I saw the light today. The errors weren't as massive in the last couple of matches as they were today. I'm just astonished at the result today. If she had played Golovin with the same form she played Serena, Lindsay and Maria should should have beaten her.

And, no I wasn't one to say that she would win RG this year. But, I did think she had a fantastic clay season last year and I expected better this year, because her form is better this year, in my opinion than last year. Anyway, I'm at a loss. I just think she needs some help from a fresh perspective on her game. Her forehand has improved, because it looks better, but I think she overthinks it, hoping that it doesn't break down and inevitably it does.

P.S. Don't misunderstand me when I say she's going backward instead of forward. What I mean is that it seems that she was taking steps forward and progressing in her form and game this season, but this loss makes it look like she's regressing from the forward progression.
Loses to Farina, Molik, Golovin and to Davenport on clay is not what it seems to be playing any better for Venus this year. Even losing to Mauresmo indoors is not an ideal loss for Venus, she should take avantage of her powerful serve and shots on indoors. Its tough to understand what is happening.
I think she still has the tools and she still wants to win, but i think she needs a tennis expert to help her out on her forehand. Because the bad thing is that once your weakness is exposed time and time again, normally you tend to drop the confidence on your whole game even your strenghts suffer.

Steffica Greles
Apr 15th, 2005, 12:31 PM
Hate to say I told you so, but I think Venus' comments after this latest loss to someone she shouldn't have lost to illustrates the points I made earlier in this thread.

Venus isn't winning tournaments any longer because the bottom line, through all these excuses, is that she doesn't have the desire.

Sure, I probably wouldn't either if my sister had been shot dead and I'd already won 4 slams. It's not a personal criticism of Venus. It's just I really don't think she's got another slam in her with this attitude. It's not her forehand - that was always her weaker side. It's an attitude problem. There are other girls (most girls, actually) who slog it out on the tour for far more weeks than Venus does.

volta
Apr 15th, 2005, 12:46 PM
LMAO this threat is still being bumped LMAO