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hingis-seles
Apr 6th, 2005, 03:47 PM
http://www.tennis.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&type=gen&mod=Core+Pages&gid=2DD7C11702FA451797E82099367F4312

Friday, April 1, 10 A.M.
The Goddess of Grunt and the Queen of De-Nile

Maria Sharapova made a powerful statement yesterday in the NASDAQ-100 semifinals. Let me translate it for you:

“If you want to be back on top of this game, Venus, you’d better find and bring your A-game and stop pretending that the helter-skelter stuff you’ve lapsed into is good enough to win at the highest level.”

If you watched the match, you saw Sharapova, a dedicated, disciplined, no-nonsense tennis player, rip the façade off a game in neglect. It wasn’t so much that Maria routined Venus (4 and 3), because in all fairness there were some great rallies and wonderful points that brought out the best in both players. It was more that, in contrast to a very on-message Maria, Venus was sloppy and unfocused, a moving portrait of indiscipline punctuated every few strokes by one of her signature splits as she attempted to wallop a winner. It all amounted to a statement of her own. Let me translate:

“I’m a player adrift, hoping that my athleticism and reputation will see me through when I have neither a disciplined game, nor a clear game plan, nor the steady, quiet confidence that comes from loving what I do and having done the homework it asks of me.”

Of course, this is the Queen of De-Nile, so when I asked her after the match if all the errors she made (the ones that she said cost her the match, as if Sharapova’s highly disciplined, cool play had nothing to do with the outcome) might be markers of underlying fitness or focus issues, she lamely replied: “No, no, I don’t think so. The thing in tennis is that you always have another match.”

Right. But guess what, Venus. That next match won’t be Saturday’s women’s final. It will be a first-rounder, wherever you choose to play next. And if you’re content with that, ’nuff said.

Here’s the thing that really gets me; it’s one thing to be in denial about why you’re losing (to paraphrase a famous line, “Great players can’t handle the truth!”). It’s quite another to insult your opponent (not to mention the intelligence of every sentient being even remotely interested in you) by declaring, “It was just a match that was all about the errors I was making.” As truisms morphing into rationalizations becoming excuses goes, this is about as good as it gets. But here’s something else: Want to know what Venus’ response was when asked if she stuck to a practice/training schedule?

“Well, I hit in the morning, I try to train in the afternoon,” she said. “But some days I take it easy, too. So it’s a cycle. Like, my life is really unpredictable, so I don’t know what the next day will bring.”

Want to know what Maria said when the same kind of question was put to her?

“Well, I think it’s an individual’s decision. It’s either you want tennis to be your number one priority and, you know, you set other things aside, or you prefer doing other things than playing tennis,” she said. “I think that’s what really motivates me. When I have five days off and I’m doing shoots or I’m doing whatever, I’m really hungry to get back on the court. Because that’s where I feel, ‘This is what I do, this is my job, and I love doing it.’ ”

And you wonder why Venus is waning and planet Maria’s star is waxing?

Okay, I’ve been pretty tough on Venus and Serena, the reluctant champions, lately. I’ve even gotten emails accusing me of being a racist. So here’s an observation touching on race:

One of the great things about the match was that there was little discernible difference—athletically—between the African-American woman and the blond-haired, blue-eyed Russian girl. This was not a battle of stereotypes between the cool, strategic, consistent white girl and the explosive, spontaneous, athletic black girl. This was about two great female athletes going toe-to-toe, and it was decided by the blandest but perhaps most powerful of factors—the discipline that provides a springboard for every über-athlete, from Jerry Rice to Roger Clemens to Michael Jordan—and now Maria Sharapova.

The irony is that I’ve always defended the flaky or flawed competitor’s right to waste his or her career, buck the system, or otherwise refuse to be a cog in the big, commercial wheel. I’ll say it again: If Venus wants to be the neo–flower-child of tennis, fine. But she should cowboy up and say something like, “I can’t beat the top players with the game I have now and I don’t care. More power to them, but life’s too short and I’ve got to many other fish to fry.”

But these tired lines—“It’s all about my errors”, or, “On my best day, I’m the greatest ever” are not only arrogant, empty boasts, they’re a form of theft. They’re stealing the credit that should go to that poor, one-dimensional, unimaginative, uncool, uninteresting soul to whom diligence, discipline, and tradecraft are of paramount importance.


Interesting read. I have to agree with him on many points, though this seems to me to be a case of tough love for Venus.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 6th, 2005, 03:57 PM
good article.

harloo
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:04 PM
It's ok to give your criticism, but why the attacks? It's highly unprofessional and who gives a fuck about Peter Bodo?

:rolleyes:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:04 PM
Funny how he didn't mention AT ALL that this is the best Venus has played in a while, and that she just beat her sister ranked at #4 in the previous round. So yeah, you are biased Peter Bodo. You mention what you want to mention without bringing all the facts in. Plus... the only reason why Venus lost the first set 6-4 is because she was making errors on her service game serving at 4-5 to get broken. So yes, at times it WAS about her errors. Maybe you should watch matches before you make comments about them idiot.

lizchris
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:08 PM
It's ok to give your criticism, but why the attacks? It's highly unprofessional and who gives a fuck about Peter Bodo?

:rolleyes:


This writer has always been touugh on Venus. He said in a documentary about them that Venus would rather be somewhere else than play tennis. And he has been saying that since 2000-2001.

hingis-seles
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:10 PM
This is NOT an article. The link I have provided is to his blog on the Tennis Magazine website.

harloo
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:13 PM
This writer has always been touugh on Venus. He said in a documentary about them that Venus would rather be somewhere else than play tennis. And he has been saying that since 2000-2001.

Does he know Venus? :rolleyes:

GoDominique
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:14 PM
Peter Bodo, I agree.

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:31 PM
Wow he called her a thief.

That is beyond outrageous. If what venus says is what she believes then what are you going to do? Its like they dont want her to truly answer what she thinks they want a pre rehearesed answer that THEY THINK she should give which in reality is no answer at all if that is not what she thinks.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:31 PM
As much as I love Venus Williams, I do feel that she doesn't have that burning desire anymore...we see flashes, but she's obviously not putting in the work.

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:36 PM
No she is not the same player she was in 2000 2001. That player did not have an interior design firm. That player had the motivation of a grandslam winning sibling.

I find it funny though that people want her to bow down and praise Maria or any opponent. Maybe Maria should get her praise from her parents or fans not competitors. Its silly.

DId you see Muhammad Ali praising his competitors? :rolleyes:

GoDominique
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:39 PM
Venus is in denial.

morbidangle
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:40 PM
hard words, and I can understand why Venus fans will get mad. I agree with what he is saying, Venus is not playing her best for whatever reason, but it really seems like Venus is not putting in her best effort. Hopefully she will do well on clay like she did last year.

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:43 PM
It's ok to give your criticism, but why the attacks? It's highly unprofessional and who gives a fuck about Peter Bodo?

:rolleyes:

Typical.

I'd expect nothing less from him and
many of these so-called professionals when it
comes to anything and everything Venus does
and says.

As far as race, IMO.

It comes down to the media's double standard and the perpetuation by
the media that causes some people to feel the racial undertones!

Strong, intelligent, and opinionated black women are found intimidating by a certain section of the masses, which is even more magnified in such a high profile sport that has historically been seen as "lilly white".

When the Sisters have been boastful, unabashed, and seen as arrogant, the media was forever taking them to task on their attitudes and personalities so much so that you never saw it with their white counterparts or the media coverage of them overshadowed what ever may have been reported of their counterparts.

The impressions for many black people and people of color especially in America with racial issues that are as still hot today as they ever were, (even if people don't want to admit it) is that if they where blonde haired, blue-eyed, and white and had their same type of success, it would be more widely accepted and not made a big an issue.

IMO, their are still many people in tennis and outside who find them intimidating because they are black, but also because they speak their minds and don't hold back and women historically are called, "bitches" and such and ostrasized for being in places of power doing nothing more or less than their male counterparts! Being black in this case is like a double whammy!

You don't see all this drama on the men's side and I
doubt you ever would under any circustances at this point.

Also, over the years we've seen and heard many people comment negatively on the sisters appearance, because of their muscle and build. When it was simply nothing more than genetics and yet it was another thing they had to endure.

So, when you're coming to the table having dealt with these issues and them hitting you in the face and what not, it's not hard to see why many people would call him a "racist" or bring race into it.


Now, this is just my take and for me, don't know about others, but I've always sensed the racial undertones in the tennis world ever since I started following tennis which was on like 4 years ago. Issues that are their but people pretend like they aren't.


So, I always come into these articles and what not being quite sinical unless or until I read and then form an opinion simply because I feel what's their but not being said.

V-MAC
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:47 PM
:eek: well this is certainly hard-hitting. I must admit though I reluctantly found some truth in what he was saying even if he was way too harsh. Still love Venus though :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:51 PM
hard words, and I can understand why Venus fans will get mad. I agree with what he is saying, Venus is not playing her best for whatever reason, but it really seems like Venus is not putting in her best effort. Hopefully she will do well on clay like she did last year.

I just don't buy that, sorry.


Yes, people can and could say that IMO last year despite the injuries and whatever reasons, but ever since the OZ Open and even during the OZ Open I saw a change and improvement in her game that I wondered if it would last and hoped it would.

Since then, I've seen a steady improvement from tournament to tournament. I feel she is working harder and Venus herself said she had to work harder, but not to say she hadn't been working hard prior.

Consistetncy is still very much an issue for Venus but I see the eargerness
in her eyes and sense a different aire about her.

She had a great run in Antwerp and Miami.
Yes, she lost just a step or two from winning but, this has
been where the consistency issue has come into play but I feel
she is working on that.

Also, wheather people admit it or like it, Venus does tend to shoot herself with the errors that one can attribute to many of her losses.

I mean, ever Sharapova said in her post-match on-court interview
that she was about to benefit from Venus forehand mistakes.

To me, the fact that she picked out a specific thing tells me
it's an area where Venus is lacking and it's causing her matches and titles.


I just don't get why everyone else can have their opinions coming from where
ever and yet Venus get slammed for telling her piece as she is actually the one out there playing.

But that's whatever, and people
will always be like this so it is what it is.

SelesFan70
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:53 PM
I can see his point to a degree. It seemed that back in 2000-2001 Venus really didn't need to "focus on tennis" because she was winning quite easily. But now that the tour has caught up to her, she should reconsider her priorities. If she's content with her routine and the results it brings (or lately doesn't bring) then that's on her. If she believes that HER errors cost her the match, she needs to work on not making those errors. Then if she wins, she was right, if she still loses then she should stop pretending and correct the problem.

LuvsTennis78
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:57 PM
In the Malay Language (an Asian language for those of u guys not sure what Malay is), 'bodoh' means 'stupid' .. and well this guy's name is Peter Bodo ..so what else can u expect ..

*This is a joke based on my knowledge of the language. It is not my intention to offend anyone with the same surname as Peter above.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:58 PM
I can see his point to a degree. It seemed that back in 2000-2001 Venus really didn't need to "focus on tennis" because she was winning quite easily. But now that the tour has caught up to her, she should reconsider her priorities. If she's content with her routine and the results it brings (or lately doesn't bring) then that's on her. If she believes that HER errors cost her the match, she needs to work on not making those errors. Then if she wins, she was right, if she still loses then she should stop pretending and correct the problem.


LOL People keep saying the tour has caught up, when in actuallity Venus' level has come down. The tour has gotten more depth, but the level of play at the very top has not gone up at all since Serena ruled the roost 02-03, if it had two players who've been slamless for the past five years(Amelie never) wouldn't be the top ranked players. :wavey:

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Venus is in denial.

I will be honest. Part of me wants to agree with this. Its the easy thing to do because you dont have to answer the tough questions by saying, "shes in denial."

What are the tough questions?

What is Venus' work out regiment?

How much does Venus practice? When?

How much preventive precautions does venus take to stay injury free?

Diet? Excercise?

How much time does venus devote to improving her game?

Does she talk stragey with her coaches? Does she watch film?

How much of a toll have the injuries truyly affected venus?

What is Venus desire for the game? Does she still truly love it?

Give me the answers to these questions from venus and her support staff and then I think you can say whether she is in denial or not.

Without those answers you are doing nothing but gross speculation.

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:07 PM
Venus is in denial.

Yeah, because what would she know! :rolleyes:

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:11 PM
I will be honest. Part of me wants to agree with this. Its the easy thing to do because you dont have to answer the tough questions by saying, "shes in denial."

What are the tough questions?

What is Venus' work out regiment?

How much does Venus practice? When?

How much preventive precautions does venus take to stay injury free?

Diet? Excercise?

How much time does venus devote to improving her game?

Does she talk stragey with her coaches? Does she watch film?

How much of a toll have the injuries truyly affected venus?

What is Venus desire for the game? Does she still truly love it?

Give me the answers to these questions from venus and her support staff and then I think you can say whether she is in denial or not.

Without those answers you are doing nothing but gross speculation.


Simply a case of "believe the worst" about a player
who hasn't been well liked by the tennis world
to begin with.

I mean, one needs look only to Serena winning the OZ Open.

Even when she won you still had people taking pot shot's
at her, in and out of the tennis world, implying all she had
was desire which won it for her and giving the impressions
atleast that it somehow cheapens her victory.

So, even when Venus does win and gets back up their at the
top, I wouldn't expect people to say and do much less than was
the case with Serena.


BTW, GD. b.rep recipricated.

GoDominique
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:18 PM
Venus after losing to Molik (denial parts in bold):

Q. How are you feeling condition‑wise? Do you think you had enough coming into the tournament?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Condition? Coming into the tournament, like?

Q. In terms of match practice.

VENUS WILLIAMS: Well, this is definitely one of the tougher tournaments to win because you don't have the opportunity to get out there and play tons of matches. So this is one event where you have to definitely be a hundred percent going into the event. There's no room for error. That definitely makes it one of the tougher ones to win.

But, yeah, I feel like I had the best preparation that I could have given myself.

Q. Do you still feel as competitive in Grand Slams as you did three, four years ago?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

Q. What's changed since then? Not just injuries and things, but has anything changed mentally, perhaps, that's stopping you from winning them?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I just feel like you win some, you lose some. And I feel like that was one I definitely should have won. I just was off of my rhythm.

Q. Do you sense a lot of change in her game the last year, two years or so?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Obviously she's playing better. But I just didn't play that well. So normally if I'm playing 5% better, this match is going to be mine. You know, I'll definitely come back in the next tournament, the next event, and I'm definitely going to play better. No doubt.

Q. You still obviously feel deep down you can win Grand Slams?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.

Q. Is there one thing that has to change for that to happen again?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I would say it's the same thing for you. If you take some time off from writing, there's no doubt you can still write. So I can still play. So there's no doubt about that.

Q. But have the other players caught up? I mean, obviously you and Serena brought a different type of game to tennis, a different level. Have they caught up?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I would say players are playing better, but I would definitely also say that when I'm playing well, I feel like I'm the best. And today was not my best, absolutely not my best.

Andy T
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:23 PM
The match I saw went like this: Venus played extremely well for the first 8-9 games; if anything, she had a narrow edge over Masha during that period. The first set was of very a high calibre and the player who held it together in the crisis came out on top.

The second set was a different story but how much the result was due to the (un?)forced errors flying off VW's racquet and how much was due to the A-game and the considerable pressure applied by Masha is a matter for debate.

I don't think the reporter gives enough consideration to the context of the match either - VW had just beaten her sister for the first time in years and recorded only her second win against a top ten player since her return at the start of 04. She was also playing a 5th match in a hardcourt tournament for the first time in ages. I'm not making excuses here but emotional, mental and physical fatigue for someone who still has to get used to playing and beating the very top stars again should at least be considered - if only to be rejected - as possible factors in her decline in the second set.

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Venus after losing to Molik (denial parts in bold):

Q. How are you feeling condition‑wise? Do you think you had enough coming into the tournament?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Condition? Coming into the tournament, like?

Q. In terms of match practice.

VENUS WILLIAMS: Well, this is definitely one of the tougher tournaments to win because you don't have the opportunity to get out there and play tons of matches. So this is one event where you have to definitely be a hundred percent going into the event. There's no room for error. That definitely makes it one of the tougher ones to win.

But, yeah, I feel like I had the best preparation that I could have given myself.

Q. Do you still feel as competitive in Grand Slams as you did three, four years ago?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

Q. What's changed since then? Not just injuries and things, but has anything changed mentally, perhaps, that's stopping you from winning them?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I just feel like you win some, you lose some. And I feel like that was one I definitely should have won. I just was off of my rhythm.

Q. Do you sense a lot of change in her game the last year, two years or so?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Obviously she's playing better. But I just didn't play that well. So normally if I'm playing 5% better, this match is going to be mine. You know, I'll definitely come back in the next tournament, the next event, and I'm definitely going to play better. No doubt.

Q. You still obviously feel deep down you can win Grand Slams?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.

Q. Is there one thing that has to change for that to happen again?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I would say it's the same thing for you. If you take some time off from writing, there's no doubt you can still write. So I can still play. So there's no doubt about that.

Q. But have the other players caught up? I mean, obviously you and Serena brought a different type of game to tennis, a different level. Have they caught up?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I would say players are playing better, but I would definitely also say that when I'm playing well, I feel like I'm the best. And today was not my best, absolutely not my best.

And....yes, assessing yourself and what has been for
your entire career is denial.

Whatever.


The match was extremely close and could've gone
either way and Venus knows what cost her a match
she should have won!

Nothing wrong with that!

Infiniti2001
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Whatever!! All I know is that Venus played very well and was extremely competitive, but she is just finding her groove after a year and a half of devasting injuries and emotional trauma (yes everyone deals with those differently) . She says she's been working extremely hard over the past few months, and I must say that it showed at the tournament.

So how did she insult her opponent by saying errors cost her ? If he watched the match he would realize it's the dead-on truth. He can take maria's I don't care about anything but tennis and I'm always hungry to get back on court as gospel, yet goes out of his way to insult Venus for her thoughts about her errors and her approach to the game :rolleyes:

I dunno, but I feel that all these deify Maria, throw the sisters in the mud people are going to look back and realize they played a large part in damaging the sport :fiery:

Go Venus :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:31 PM
Whatever!! All I know is that Venus played very well and was extremely competitive, but she is just finding her groove after a year and a half of devasting injuries and emotional trauma (yes everyone deals with those differently) . She says she's been working extremely hard over the past few months, and I must say that it showed at the tournament.

So how did she insult her opponent by saying errors cost her ? If he watched the match he would realize it's the dead-on truth. He can take maria's I don't care about anything but tennis and I'm always hungry to get back on court as gospel, yet goes out of his way to insult Venus for her thoughts about her errors and her approach to the game :rolleyes:

I dunno, but I feel that all these deify Maria, throw the sisters in the mud people are going to look back and realize they played a large part in damaging the sport :fiery:

Go Venus :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Thank you!

V-MAC
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:35 PM
Whatever!! All I know is that Venus played very well and was extremely competitive, but she is just finding her groove after a year and a half of devasting injuries and emotional trauma (yes everyone deals with those differently) . She says she's been working extremely hard over the past few months, and I must say that it showed at the tournament.

So how did she insult her opponent by saying errors cost her ? If he watched the match he would realize it's the dead-on truth. He can take maria's I don't care about anything but tennis and I'm always hungry to get back on court as gospel, yet goes out of his way to insult Venus for her thoughts about her errors and her approach to the game :rolleyes:

I dunno, but I feel that all these deify Maria, throw the sisters in the mud people are going to look back and realize they played a large part in damaging the sport :fiery:

Go Venus :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


Infiniti, I love that pic of Venus in your avator. :hearts: :hearts: Is that taken from her recent appearance on Oprah? It looks like an "Oprah" pose :)

Infiniti2001
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:38 PM
Infiniti, I love that pic of Venus in your avator. :hearts: :hearts: Is that taken from her recent appearance on Oprah? It looks like an "Oprah" pose :)

Yes it is :p

volta
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:39 PM
who is this guy :confused:

GoDominique
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:40 PM
Whatever!! All I know is that Venus played very well and was extremely competitive, but she is just finding her groove after a year and a half of devasting injuries and emotional trauma (yes everyone deals with those differently) . She says she's been working extremely hard over the past few months, and I must say that it showed at the tournament.
It did? When?

When she needed three sets to beat Castano?
When she beat Serena who is mainly showing hysteria and atrocious footwork on the court at the moment?
Or when she got thrashed by Maria?

V-MAC
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:42 PM
Yes it is :p


:o I'm watching way too much Oprah Winfrey lately then. getting pretty bad that I'm able to recoignize where a pic was taken by the background. :eek:

volta
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:43 PM
:o I'm watching way too much Oprah Winfrey lately then. getting pretty bad that I'm able to recoignize where a pic was taken by the background. :eek:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

bmxbandit
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:47 PM
I hope he gets an anal probe by a baseball bat.

Infiniti2001
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:51 PM
It did? When?

When she needed three sets to beat Castano?
When she beat Serena who is mainly showing hysteria and atrocious footwork on the court at the moment?
Or when she got thrashed by Maria?

You don't give a crap about Venus Williams so why are you even in this thread ?? :shrug: Then again you've always been quick to believe the worse about her and her sister and side with anyone who says anything negative pertaining them . :rolleyes:

GoDominique
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:53 PM
You don't give a crap about Venus Williams so why are you even in this thread ?? :shrug:
This is a tennis board. I am a fan of tennis. Venus is a tennis player.

:)

Veenut
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:54 PM
Same ole, same ole I've come to expect from many of these so called sports journalists. What I find interesting is how irritated he appears to be because Venus refused to worship Maria as he clearly does.

One of the things I admire about Venus and Serena is that they do not wait on people to validate them, their game and their lives. They evaluate themselves through their eyes and not what others would like it to be. Venus believes her errors cost her the match and she is not willing to wallow in self pity about it and she moves forward to her next tournament. Two consecutive losses to the same person doesn't mean you can't beat the person because Lindsay and Serena prove that is not the case. Venus was unable to beat Serena for over two years and she just did, so for me there is not much validity to what he is saying.

It is so funny how these "experts" are willing to coronate players when they defeat a Williams in the middle of a tournament before they hold up a trophy. Anyway the facts are as follows, Venus with all her outside interests and lack of focus and training (to some) owns 3 Miami trophies and Maria owns 0, therefore he should at least hold his coronation and damnation until after the big results. So far, for the big results in tennis that is AO, IW and Miami I see 0 trophies for Maria. If she is unable to deliver the big ones for the year I wonder what they will have to say then.

The game is not necessarily for the swift but for those who endure to the end.

Infiniti2001
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:55 PM
This is a tennis board. I am a fan of tennis. Venus is a tennis player.

:)

:yawn: ' mercilessly .

lizchris
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:56 PM
Same ole, same ole I've come to expect from many of these so called sports journalists. What I find interesting is how irritated he appears to be because Venus refused to worship Maria as he clearly does.

One of the things I admire about Venus and Serena is that they do not wait on people to validate them, their game and their lives. They evaluate themselves through their eyes and not what others would like it to be. Venus believes her errors cost her the match and she is not willing to wallow in self pity about it and she moves forward to her next tournament. Two consecutive losses to the same person doesn't mean you can't beat the person because Lindsay and Serena prove that is not the case. Venus was unable to beat Serena for over two years and she just did, so for me there is not much validity to what he is saying.

It is so funny how these "experts" are willing to coronate players when they defeat a Williams in the middle of a tournament before they hold up a trophy. Anyway the facts are as follows, Venus with all her outside interests and lack of focus and training (to some) owns 3 Miami trophies and Maria owns 0, therefore he should at least hold his coronation and damnation until after the big results. So far, for the big results in tennis that is AO, IW and Miami I see 0 trophies for Maria. If she is unable to deliver the big ones for the year I wonder what they will have to say then.

The game is not necessarily for the swift but for those who endure to the end.


:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Infiniti2001
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Same ole, same ole I've come to expect from many of these so called sports journalists. What I find interesting is how irritated he appears to be because Venus refused to worship Maria as he clearly does.

One of the things I admire about Venus and Serena is that they do not wait on people to validate them, their game and their lives. They evaluate themselves through their eyes and not what others would like it to be. Venus believes her errors cost her the match and she is not willing to wallow in self pity about it and she moves forward to her next tournament. Two consecutive losses to the same person doesn't mean you can't beat the person because Lindsay and Serena prove that is not the case. Venus was unable to beat Serena for over two years and she just did, so for me there is not much validity to what he is saying.

It is so funny how these "experts" are willing to coronate players when they defeat a Williams in the middle of a tournament before they hold up a trophy. Anyway the facts are as follows, Venus with all her outside interests and lack of focus and training (to some) owns 3 Miami trophies and Maria owns 0, therefore he should at least hold his coronation and damnation until after the big results. So far, for the big results in tennis that is AO, IW and Miami I see 0 trophies for Maria. If she is unable to deliver the big ones for the year I wonder what they will have to say then.

The game is not necessarily for the swift but for those who endure to the end.



:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: couldn't have said it any better if I tried :p

lizchris
Apr 6th, 2005, 05:59 PM
Whatever!! All I know is that Venus played very well and was extremely competitive, but she is just finding her groove after a year and a half of devasting injuries and emotional trauma (yes everyone deals with those differently) . She says she's been working extremely hard over the past few months, and I must say that it showed at the tournament.

So how did she insult her opponent by saying errors cost her ? If he watched the match he would realize it's the dead-on truth. He can take maria's I don't care about anything but tennis and I'm always hungry to get back on court as gospel, yet goes out of his way to insult Venus for her thoughts about her errors and her approach to the game :rolleyes:

I dunno, but I feel that all these deify Maria, throw the sisters in the mud people are going to look back and realize they played a large part in damaging the sport :fiery:

Go Venus :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

starr
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:15 PM
No she is not the same player she was in 2000 2001. That player did not have an interior design firm. That player had the motivation of a grandslam winning sibling.

I find it funny though that people want her to bow down and praise Maria or any opponent. Maybe Maria should get her praise from her parents or fans not competitors. Its silly.

DId you see Muhammad Ali praising his competitors? :rolleyes:

The funny thing was that Ali did praise his opponents when he was beaten by them. I remember gaining so much admiration for Ali in the way he handled defeat even more than the way he handled victory. When defeated, he was gracious and made no excuses at all. He was a cocky winner and even more cocky before a match, but in defeat he was the perfect gentleman. It made me :worship: :worship: :worship:

It was that and his anti-war stance that really made me love him.

Veenut
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:15 PM
Venus is in denial.

If denial is what she needs to continue to improve I'm all for it. In comparison to her performance this time last year to this year I'm very encouraged especially with 3/4 of the year still to go. I find it very interesting that all the nay sayers are so concerned about you, wonder why? :confused:

kiwifan
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:16 PM
I think its funny that so many people are still whiny when it comes to Venus. They were angry when she won, they're angry when she loses.

Personally, I think Venus is right where most athletes wish they were. She's got nothing to prove and still has her health and can play for another 10 years.

Methinks the only thing Bozo wants is to see the Queen break down and sob over her tennis career.

I love that knowing Venus, he'll be waiting a very very long time. :hehehe:

Venus will just yawn and say, oh well, I guess I should of played better. :cool:

raquel
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:26 PM
I’ll say it again: If Venus wants to be the neo–flower-child of tennis, fine. But she should cowboy up and say something like, “I can’t beat the top players with the game I have now and I don’t care. More power to them, but life’s too short and I’ve got to many other fish to fry.”
He can't seriously expect Venus to say things like this. The day Venus talks like that she is as well quitting the game because with that defeatist attitude she'd get nowhere. Remember when Hingis said to Davenport something like "I can't beat you"? I am sure that gave Davenport a lot of confidence having the knowledge Hingis was going into their matches thinking that.

WF4EVER
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:30 PM
I don't like Maria and I couldn't care less about her nor her discipline, yada yada but he is spot on about Venus. I myself am tired of her lame-ass excuses.

God, how I wish I could give him some rep. points.

I know Venus can be much much better but if she doesn't want to be, that's just tragic.

Veenut
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:31 PM
The funny thing was that Ali did praise his opponents when he was beaten by them. I remember gaining so much admiration for Ali in the way he handled defeat even more than the way he handled victory. When defeated, he was gracious and made no excuses at all. He was a cocky winner and even more cocky before a match, but in defeat he was the perfect gentleman. It made me :worship: :worship: :worship:

It was that and his anti-war stance that really made me love him.

Interesting, What stands out in my mind with Ali is his proclamations "I am the greatest", "I shook up the world", "I am beautiful" and the list goes on....
It takes someone with great self belief to say those things and live up to it especially as a black man. It was hard for many to swallow then and who would believe that he would become one of the most beloved sports figure all over the world. Just goes to show that you stick to what you believe and others will get over it later. I love him!!! :worship:

venus_rulez
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:34 PM
This article to me is more amusing than anything else, because it shows exactly why Venus and Serena have always been the way they have been. From the day they stepped out on the court there have been screams of they should do this or they should do that, the most common being they should play more to support the tour. They finally do it towards the end 2001 and 2002 and then we here it's not good for women's tennis, they are dominating too much. They get injured, then it's we need our best players back, they come back and we hear claims about their lack of dedication. People have a right to their opinions, and I think this goes for everybody whether you're a famous tennis player or a kindergarten teacher or a housewife, no matter what you do and how well you do it, there will always be people who say you should be doing it better or differently. I applaud Venus and Serena and a mulititude of other players and people who stick to their guns and say you have your opinion and that's ok, but I'm gonna do what i want to do.

volta
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:39 PM
This article to me is more amusing than anything else, because it shows exactly why Venus and Serena have always been the way they have been. From the day they stepped out on the court there have been screams of they should do this or they should do that, the most common being they should play more to support the tour. They finally do it towards the end 2001 and 2002 and then we here it's not good for women's tennis, they are dominating too much. They get injured, then it's we need our best players back, they come back and we hear claims about their lack of dedication. People have a right to their opinions, and I think this goes for everybody whether you're a famous tennis player or a kindergarten teacher or a housewife, no matter what you do and how well you do it, there will always be people who say you should be doing it better or differently. I applaud Venus and Serena and a mulititude of other players and people who stick to their guns and say you have your opinion and that's ok, but I'm gonna do what i want to do.
:worship:

venus_rulez
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:39 PM
I don't like Maria and I couldn't care less about her nor her discipline, yada yada but he is spot on about Venus. I myself am tired of her lame-ass excuses.

God, how I wish I could give him some rep. points.

I know Venus can be much much better but if she doesn't want to be, that's just tragic.


Why is it tragic? It may be for you, but it's not from Venus' prespective. She loves many things, including tennis. This is not a dig at all at Martina Hingis because she was a fantastic champion, but why do you think she is commentating now? It's because she had no other real outside interests to invest in after tennis. The same goes for a lot of players right now. They don't have an education or anything to fall back on. In the end sports is a game that lasts for a few years and your life lasts a lot longer than that. I'm comforted to know that when Venus retires, whenever that is, she's not going to be wondering, so what do I do with my life now. Again I'm not saying that the Sharapovas or the Capriatis should be doing this nor should the Hingises have done what Venus and Serena are doing, but don't knock someone for taking charge of their life. To me Venus seems dedicated to being a good well rounded person is that is much more impressive than anything she could ever do on a tennis court

Veenut
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:57 PM
Why is it tragic? It may be for you, but it's not from Venus' prespective. She loves many things, including tennis. This is not a dig at all at Martina Hingis because she was a fantastic champion, but why do you think she is commentating now? It's because she had no other real outside interests to invest in after tennis. The same goes for a lot of players right now. They don't have an education or anything to fall back on. In the end sports is a game that lasts for a few years and your life lasts a lot longer than that. I'm comforted to know that when Venus retires, whenever that is, she's not going to be wondering, so what do I do with my life now. Again I'm not saying that the Sharapovas or the Capriatis should be doing this nor should the Hingises have done what Venus and Serena are doing, but don't knock someone for taking charge of their life. To me Venus seems dedicated to being a good well rounded person is that is much more impressive than anything she could ever do on a tennis court

Well stated!!! I might also add that when Carillo was gloating over Maria's outside commitments in comparison to Serena's, Bill's comment was Venus and Serena have been doing this for years with success, only time will tell for Maria. They have been doing this for years and have remain as competitive as anyone else who have completely devoted their lives to tennis.

Knizzle
Apr 6th, 2005, 07:00 PM
This is a tennis board. I am a fan of tennis. Venus is a tennis player.

:)

I guess you don't know any other tennis players outside of the Williams sisters cause I don't see you highlighting anyone else's lack of work ethic.

lizchris
Apr 6th, 2005, 07:38 PM
This article to me is more amusing than anything else, because it shows exactly why Venus and Serena have always been the way they have been. From the day they stepped out on the court there have been screams of they should do this or they should do that, the most common being they should play more to support the tour. They finally do it towards the end 2001 and 2002 and then we here it's not good for women's tennis, they are dominating too much. They get injured, then it's we need our best players back, they come back and we hear claims about their lack of dedication. People have a right to their opinions, and I think this goes for everybody whether you're a famous tennis player or a kindergarten teacher or a housewife, no matter what you do and how well you do it, there will always be people who say you should be doing it better or differently. I applaud Venus and Serena and a mulititude of other players and people who stick to their guns and say you have your opinion and that's ok, but I'm gonna do what i want to do.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

the cat
Apr 6th, 2005, 07:56 PM
Interesting thoughts from Peter Bodo on Venus Williams and her game. I can't disagree with most of his criticisms about Venus' game.

And Venus didn't lose to Maria because of her unforced errors. She lost to Maria because Maria out played her and is the better tennis player in 2005. They played a quality match but the better player won. It can't be a coincidence that the 2 times Venus and Sharapova have played Sharapova won 4 and 3, can it?

Anyway I believe Venus when she says she dedicated to working hard to improve her game. She was playing very well last spring before she sprained her ankle. Maybe she can get back to that high level of play again and stay there for awhile. I think Venus will be dangerous at Wimbledon because of her serve, reach and length. She won some points against Sharapova in Miami where she just smothered the net with her great size and reach. I still think Venus can win another grand slam and I believe Wimbledon is her most likely chance to do so. How many players have a realistic chance of winning Wimbledon this year? I think 5 to 7 players can win it if they are healthy. And Venus Williams is one of them. :)

AkademiQ
Apr 6th, 2005, 07:57 PM
I think its funny that so many people are still whiny when it comes to Venus. They were angry when she won, they're angry when she loses.

It's amazing, non fans, angry even when Venus loses. What is there interest other than bitching :confused:

They whined when the sisters won, they were ruining tennis with their style of game and their domination.

They whined when the sisters went away with injury, they weren't taking the game seriously.

They whined when the sisters came back and didn't dominate once again right away.

What a burden it is for Venus and Serena to be the saviors of tennis.

Methinks the only thing Bozo wants is to see the Queen break down and sob over her tennis career.

I think that's what will make some happy and wanting Venus to get down on her knees and pray at the feet of some other players. This especially when they aren't "humble" enough.

I love that knowing Venus, he'll be waiting a very very long time. :hehehe:

Venus will just yawn and say, oh well, I guess I should of played better. :cool:

I'm glad Venus won't change in that respect. Why should she change for these type of detractors?

Knizzle
Apr 6th, 2005, 08:00 PM
This guy hasn't been too fond of the sisters since before Venus' game went down. So this isn't "tough love" it's his own hangups with the sisters and Richard.

BrianII
Apr 6th, 2005, 09:22 PM
Its a stupid article from scratch no matter whether you agree with it or not... becaused its based on 1 match you can always cherry pick a match throughout the year and it will reflect whatever you want to believe. If you don't like maria well Daven port Maria IW shows Maria doesn't know how to play and all the intense practice is wasted or maybe Clijsterrs Maria, Nasdaq " you can practice all you like but real talent will take an 6 m month vacation and still beat you" ... this is not about maria you can insert any top players name there and find a match.
Alot of naysayers and apparently fans want more from venus than she is prepared to give .....I'd say this to posters like GoDom and idiots like peter Bodo " what is is that you do for a living are you in the the top, 10 top 100, top 10000, top 1,000000 I sincerely doubt ..it venus is in the top eight of her profession even on paper, she actually even higher in terms of accomplishment of active players , her playing this year quietly reflects her rank" ... that for me is thoroughly professional ..and not only is it better than 1000's of aspiring female tennis players but also better than 99% of people anywhere in any given profession be it doctors ..lawyers or second rate tennis writers.
A second rate tennis writer like bodo should be more concerned about becoming one of the hundreds of first rate tennis writers than what Venus does or doesn't do. I have loads of his articles from when he used to ( maybe still does ) write for Tennis mag in the '90s his articles were shallow, poorly reserched, his predictions were always something a casual fan would come up with based on recent results there are a ton of posters on these boards who would make far more rationale predictions ( even though maybe inaccurate) a least showing an indepth knowledge of the players surfaces head to head records weaknessess etc...

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 6th, 2005, 09:34 PM
Its a stupid article from scratch no matter whether you agree with it or not... becaused its based on 1 match you can always cherry pick a match throughout the year and it will reflect whatever you want to believe. If you don't like maria well Daven port Maria IW shows Maria doesn't know how to play and all the intense practice is wasted or maybe Clijsterrs Maria, Nasdaq " you can practice all you like but real talent will take an 6 m month vacation and still beat you" ... this is not about maria you can insert any top players name there and find a match.
Alot of naysayers and apparently fans want more from venus than she is prepared to give .....I'd say this to posters like GoDom and idiots like peter Bodo " what is is that you do for a living are you in the the top, 10 top 100, top 10000, top 1,000000 I sincerely doubt ..it venus is in the top eight of her profession even on paper, she actually even higher in terms of accomplishment of active players , her playing this year quietly reflects her rank" ... that for me is thoroughly professional ..and not only is it better than 1000's of aspiring female tennis players but also better than 99% of people anywhere in any given profession be it doctors ..lawyers or second rate tennis writers.
A second rate tennis writer like bodo should be more concerned about becoming one of the hundreds of first rate tennis writers than what Venus does or doesn't do. I have loads of his articles from when he used to ( maybe still does ) write for Tennis mag in the '90s his articles were shallow, poorly reserched, his predictions were always something a casual fan would come up with based on recent results there are a ton of posters on these boards who would make far more rationale predictions ( even though maybe inaccurate) a least showing an indepth knowledge of the players surfaces head to head records weaknessess etc...:worship:

faboozadoo15
Apr 6th, 2005, 10:12 PM
This guy hasn't been too fond of the sisters since before Venus' game went down. So this isn't "tough love" it's his own hangups with the sisters and Richard.
im not so sure. i think he, like werthiem used to LOVE venus. but hey, you could be right. my memory on bodo's personal favorites isn't as good as it could be.

anyway, i kinda agree with a lot of what he's saying, but he's very harsh.

Tennisaddict
Apr 7th, 2005, 12:27 AM
This article has some good points but I think the guy is in denial about a couple of things. While Venus doesn't seem to posess the same desire to win as she did in 200/2001 she has been showing her improving form in Antwerp and Miami. I doubt she will stop there but will have even better results. He comes across as a subjective journalist who likes to see Venus decline or something.
To say that Maria is as athletic as Venus is a joke :rolleyes:. Maria has good footwork but she doesn't have the same footspeed as Venus which is often exposed when she is on the defense. He's also leaving out the part where Venus said that Maria played some good tennis in their semifinal. And why should she admit things that aren't even true? He's not even mentioning her injuries who have played a big role in terms of performing well at the highest level. She might not be playing her best tennis right now, but that doesn't mean that she should suck up to the ones that are. The only one who's being a thief here is he IMO since he is leaving out crucial parts in this article which gives the reader a misleading view, and that's the same as witholding the truth.

icequeen
Apr 7th, 2005, 01:01 AM
I don't understand why these people are always picking on Venus and Serena are they the only tennis players on the WTA. When Lin had her bad playing year and could not win jack did they write negative articles about her....When we say how racist these people are then board members jump down our throats. Why don't he talk about jen, mary, vera and others they are also a part of the WTA team right.

ktwtennis
Apr 7th, 2005, 01:37 AM
I completely agree. Venus was entirely too arrogant, and anyone who doesn't admit that is blind. And those of you who say this is the best Venus has played in awhile, I agree. BUT, isn't it sad that this was the best she had played, and it still was a fairly routine victory?

mboyle
Apr 7th, 2005, 01:43 AM
But Venus had two more UFEs than winners, just two:o ....Maria had a total of like 28 winners and errors she forced of Venus, to just 12 UFEs. Maria would have beaten anyone on that day. Venus still played well.

G_Slammed
Apr 7th, 2005, 01:48 AM
Sharapova had 11 winners 12 ues in that match. Venus finished with 22 winners and 24 ues.

vettipooh
Apr 7th, 2005, 01:56 AM
Damn!!! I wanted to see the blog on Maria, after she got her ass whopped by Kim in straight sets, following Venus' match. #3 player in the world, demolished by # 38???:rolleyes: The fool should have plenty to say!!! :tape: Where was his blog on the 6/0 6/0 whipping???? Get off Venus' back!!!:rolleyes:

Hulet
Apr 7th, 2005, 02:05 AM
Damn!!! I wanted to see the blog on Maria, after she got her ass whopped by Kim in straight sets, following Venus' match. #3 player in the world, demolished by # 38???:rolleyes: The fool should have plenty to say!!! :tape: Where was his blog on the 6/0 6/0 whipping???? Get off Venus' back!!!:rolleyes:
I don't think he will. Unless Venus starts worshipping at the altar of Goddess Sharapova. But, considering the unlikelihood of that, well we will be treated to more and more of those delightful blogs.

faboozadoo15
Apr 7th, 2005, 02:23 AM
Damn!!! I wanted to see the blog on Maria, after she got her ass whopped by Kim in straight sets, following Venus' match. #3 player in the world, demolished by # 38???:rolleyes: The fool should have plenty to say!!! :tape: Where was his blog on the 6/0 6/0 whipping???? Get off Venus' back!!!:rolleyes:
ass whooped? demolished? score was 6-3 7-5 and maria had points for 6-5 in the second.

yukon145
Apr 7th, 2005, 04:21 AM
i think the article brought up some very good points. now im not trying to start something, but could it be that you Venus fans are also in denial?? i know the feeling that some of you guys might not want to admit.

me being a Jen fan, i know that Jenn isn't at the top of her game anymore(for one shes injured, but thats not why) but i know Jenn isn't the player she was in 2001 and 2002. she shows moments of that greatness, but often she plays sloppy(see 2004 french open semi vs Myskina) i've come to terms that Jenn only has a few years left on the tour and they might not be as great as we would want for our favorite player. but i know when Jenn comes back i will be happy seeing her play a few more years left on tour.

what im trying to say is 1) be happy that Venus is healthy and playing tennis now, not sidelined with injuries and 2) Venus might never be the player she was in 2000 and 2001 without hard work and some soul searching.

uNIVERSEmAN
Apr 7th, 2005, 04:25 AM
Venis is satisfied with her tennis, why can't people leave her alone?