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Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:02 AM
So the other day I was talking about this with my friend and I'm an advocate of the "homosexuality is bioloigcal" theory, but she told me that she didn't believe that at all.

My perspective was that I knew a while ago, without having any stimulus from a real person. I just knew. It was innate, and I thought it was pretty obvious. I would say it was latent until I started thinking about it, and then there wasn't really a question. I also feel like there have been more gay people in the past couple generations than every before, which, if you know anything about genetics, would be good evidence that it is a biological thing.

She was saying that in response to the genetics piece, that that's not entirely true, that it mainly wasn't accepted socially until recently, which I agree with. But she also said that living at home in New England, that there aren't nearly as many gay people as there are in cities like Washington DC, where we are now, so it can't entirely be biological.

And I figured that you guys would be a good group to ask :p So what's your opinion? It is biological or are there other reasons that you can think of?

bionic71
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:32 AM
The population is larger...hence more of all types of people.

Always been gay....never questioned it....by the time I was 11 I knew I was not at all sexually interested in females...
My brother is not gay...he was exposed to the exact same family environment...same male /female role models...same everything...my parents treated us no differently.

I think the only role that ones "environment" has is whether it is conjudice to growing up as the individual you should be ....or whether it is an oppressive one that stifles and results in fear, confusion or apprehension.

If you are indeed interested, then asking gay people to reinterate their own personal journies is a good place to start.

Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:32 AM
It was just a question, you don't have to be so obnoxious about it :rolleyes:

If more homosexuals exist in today's society, though as I said, it was more of a feeling because of what you see in today's society compared to a half century ago, it actually is proof of a biological thing. If more exist than in the past, that means that more people have the gene for it than in the past. It's just selection for a specific trait - it would indicate that more people are becoming carriers, which would lead to the recieving of either the dominant allele and the recessive allele for being a carrier or two recessive alleles, which would mean you are a homosexual. At least, that would be the logic.

Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:34 AM
The population is larger...hence more of all types of people.

Always been gay....never questioned it....by the time I was 11 I knew I was not at all sexually interested in females...
My brother is not gay...he was exposed to the exact same family environment...same male /female role models...same everything...my parents treated us no differently.

I think the only role that ones "environment" has is whether it is conjudice to growing up as the individual you should be ....or whether it is an oppressive one that stifles and results in fear, confusion or apprehension.

If you are indeed interested, then asking gay people to reinterate their own personal journies is a good place to start.

THANK you, this is exactly what I was looking for.

I agree with you, I mean, my sister is not. But I was just curious. Because I felt it was biological, I just assumed that was the common theory. But then my friend told me she didn't think that, and it just made me wonder what other people thought. So I figured I'd ask.

MisterQ
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:38 AM
I am confident that it is largely biological. Think of all the parents who have raised their kids the way straight kids are "meant to be raised," but have still ended up with a gay son or daughter.

I won't rule out the possibility that experiences during one's upbringing could have an effect on someone, but I'm sure it isn't the entire reason.


She was saying that in response to the genetics piece, that that's not entirely true, that it mainly wasn't accepted socially until recently, which I agree with. But she also said that living at home in New England, that there aren't nearly as many gay people as there are in cities like Washington DC, where we are now, so it can't entirely be biological.

Many of the gay people in larger cities grew up elsewhere. ;)

Lee-Waters' Boy
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:41 AM
I don't know if its biological or not

but one point, I think there is the illusion that there are more now than there were a half century ago because it is more accepted...people are "out" or whatever. i would be willing to bet that there was truly about the same percentage of population that was gay before. then again maybe not, but i don't think there's any real way to know.

also, there may be the illusion of there being more gays in cities again because it is accepted. someone living in a city has a bigger opportunity to meet more gay people. a gay person in a tiny town will stay in the closet until he or she moves to the city in most cases.

UDiTY
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:07 AM
Homosexuality is NOT hereditary, which I think was part of yer question.

And yes being gay is biological, if by biological you mean it's something inside you and you don't choose to be gay.

I am sure that more gay people come out nowadays but I think also the numbers of babies born gay could be increasing:scratch:

CJ07
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:19 AM
Actually homosexuality is actually down from what it used to be back in archaic time. It was common place to have a wife and a boyfriend on the side.

Then Constantine came along, and it changed. But it just went into the "closet" until recently.

So I disagree with your idea of it being a new thing or whatever

tennisIlove09
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:21 AM
It is biological. I certainly know I didn't CHOOSE to be gay...not that I'm complaining. I love being gay. lol. boys are fun :D

CJ07
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:33 AM
great to hear that Dallas :D

and it is biological. It's not like a switch you can turn on and off :lol:

Bacardi
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:36 AM
I know it is, it wasn't like I choose this way of life. If I could have choose anything, I would have decided to be straight. It's easier to live straight than it is gay.

Plus I have a male cousin on my mothers side that is gay, and a female that's bi (and I think mostly lesbian, but doesn't due to it not being accepted). Then I have an aunt on my fathers side that's lesbian.

SM
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:47 AM
i agree with bacardi. i hate it when ppl make it out like you chose to be gay,, that is pure ignorance....why would u choose to be oppressed and live ur life inhibited to various degrees!

Almalyk
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:07 AM
It is biological. I certainly know I didn't CHOOSE to be gay...not that I'm complaining. I love being gay. lol. boys are fun :D

Totally agree! :wavey:

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:28 AM
Just because you didn't choose it does not mean it is biological.

I really don't know. I am a firm believer in science, and so far they can't seem to prove this one way or the other. However, I do personally feel that one day they will find genes that make people "gay" or whatever, even though I hope they don't. The day they find them is the day they start making people "NORMAL" (i.e. straight).

I also think the environment plays a role. It's pretty well documented that abuse can really mess up a kid's sexuality. Who knows what else affects it. One day they might find out that eating a certain fruit as a kid makes you more likely to be gay. :shrug:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:34 AM
I dunno...but I do remember chasing other boys at 5 years old. So I don't know how I could've LEARNED that.

tennisIlove09
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:34 AM
Just because you didn't choose it does not mean it is biological.

I really don't know. I am a firm believer in science, and so far they can't seem to prove this one way or the other. However, I do personally feel that one day they will find genes that make people "gay" or whatever, even though I hope they don't. The day they find them is the day they start making people "NORMAL" (i.e. straight).

I also think the environment plays a role. It's pretty well documented that abuse can really mess up a kid's sexuality. Who knows what else affects it. One day they might find out that eating a certain fruit as a kid makes you more likely to be gay. :shrug:

I wasn't abused

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:38 AM
I wasn't abused

That's nice :confused:

alexusjonesfan
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:51 AM
:banana:

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:52 AM
I think it WOULD be bananas.

Just look at the shape. :devil:

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:59 AM
There is no such thing as gay gene, or being born gay. Those are only excuses made for this social problem. Most of the times it is psychological traumas which are induced in the subconscient of the beholder. The only way you COULD be something that the peopel would call gay is if you suffered of trisonomy XXY. But this is rare.

So no, homosexuality is not biological, but psychological. No turn around, no buts, not ifs, not nothing, gayness is not biological.

Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:01 AM
Yeah, what Scott said about making people "normal" is totally possible, but that goes on to the whole eugenics movement, so I'm not entirely sure that it's happening - I just wrote a paper on eugenics, and it's not likely to crop up, at least not for the alteration of cultural or racial minorities, anytime soon.

It's interesting hearing viewpoints. It's really the nature vs. nurture question, and most people think like I do that it's nature. But how much do you think environment is actually involved in it? Yeah yeah, I loved musicals from a young age, almost all of my friends are girls, never went out on a date for my middle years like middle/high school, etc., but I'd be willing to say that those are products of it, not causes of it, don't ya think?

Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:02 AM
I think it WOULD be bananas.

Just look at the shape. :devil:

:haha: - Bananas are soooo much better than bagels....

JLDementieva
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:03 AM
There is no such thing as gay gene, or being born gay. Those are only excuses made for this social problem. Most of the times it is psychological traumas which are induced in the subconscient of the beholder. The only way you COULD be something that the peopel would call gay is if you suffered of trisonomy XXY. But this is rare.

So no, homosexuality is not biological, but psychological. No turn around, no buts, not ifs, not nothing, gayness is not biological.
how are you the expert huh? are you gay yourself? If you're not don't sound like you know everything about gay people.

Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:07 AM
There is no such thing as gay gene, or being born gay. Those are only excuses made for this social problem. Most of the times it is psychological traumas which are induced in the subconscient of the beholder. The only way you COULD be something that the peopel would call gay is if you suffered of trisonomy XXY. But this is rare.

So no, homosexuality is not biological, but psychological. No turn around, no buts, not ifs, not nothing, gayness is not biological.

Klinefelter's Syndrome XXY does not make you gay. Jamie Lee Curtis was (she had part of it removed :p), and it just has to do with your hormone level and your genitals.

I disagree. Though I don't really want to argue with you, just because your use of "social problem" just makes me think that you're pretty much a bigot, and it's not use battling with someone who's too prejudiced to care.

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:13 AM
Duiz brings up the topic we should be discussing....

is idiocy biological?

JLDementieva
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:15 AM
Duiz brings up the topic we should be discussing....

is idiocy biological?
:lol:

Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:16 AM
Duiz brings up the topic we should be discussing....

is idiocy biological?

:lol: - You're cute tonight :p

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:17 AM
:lol: - You're cute tonight :p

as opposed to when? :scratch:

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:20 AM
how are you the expert huh? are you gay yourself? If you're not don't sound like you know everything about gay people.

No... I am in a really advanced biology class at my school, with a real genius at biology, and he spent two hours explaining about homosexuality, trisonomy, and other things... he clarified many things. Not that I am gay, but we were thought about it.

Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:22 AM
as opposed to when? :scratch:

Oh exuse me, did I say tonight, I meant in general :)

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:22 AM
The expert (in both psychology and biology) has spoken. :devil: Thanks Dr.


I am not an expert. This shouldn't be so ignored and so hard to comprehend. :rolleyes: I mean... trisonomy is not new, and it was discovered recently that the gay gene does not exist. :rolleyes:

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:25 AM
Klinefelter's Syndrome XXY does not make you gay. Jamie Lee Curtis was (she had part of it removed :p), and it just has to do with your hormone level and your genitals.

I disagree. Though I don't really want to argue with you, just because your use of "social problem" just makes me think that you're pretty much a bigot, and it's not use battling with someone who's too prejudiced to care.

I generalize too much. I don't think the people who are gays, or lesbians are social problems, but they suffer of it.

Anyways, I am open. And seems like I forgot the lecture... :rolleyes: Are you serious is not XXY trisonomy the one that makes you be born with two sexual parts, and even though you are defined one sex yourself, if you are removed the wrong sexual organ you will be most likely homosexual?

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:27 AM
I am not an expert. This shouldn't be so ignored and so hard to comprehend. :rolleyes: I mean... trisonomy is not new, and it was discovered recently that the gay gene does not exist. :rolleyes:

How can you prove something doesn't exist? In my experience, you can only prove something does.

alexusjonesfan
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:28 AM
holy crap, what kind of advanced biology do they teach where you live?

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:28 AM
I generalize too much. I don't think the people who are gays, or lesbians are social problems, but they suffer of it.

There's no suffering in my bed, honey.

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:30 AM
holy crap, what kind of advanced biology do they teach where you live?

Didn't you get your recent copy of Christian Science Weekly?

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:32 AM
holy crap, what kind of advanced biology do they teach where you live?


I live in USA... The teacher also taught us more than he should have. He told us about cases, and it was interesting to know all the cases he told us reduntandly. I am in advanced placement program and International Baccalaureate program...

JLDementieva
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:33 AM
holy crap, what kind of advanced biology do they teach where you live?
obviously some very screwed up shit, I think your teacher needs to retake his biology courses again.

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:34 AM
There's no suffering in my bed, honey.

You aren't aware of it... it is deeper than the just plain and simple traverse of your mind.

I won't discuss anymore on this thread, cause my opinion is just pointless to share. Doesn't matter if it is truth or not, it will be blocked by the blinding pride of the affected viewers. It just another more sterile conflict. :rolleyes:

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:35 AM
I live in USA... The teacher also taught us more than he should have. He told us about cases, and it was interesting to know all the cases he told us reduntandly. I am in advanced placement program and International Baccalaureate program...

:lol:

You ARE a genius. Still in high school and already know more about biology than all of the world's doctors combined! :hearts:

alexusjonesfan
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:42 AM
uhh...first of all, a recent study suggested that there may be a gay gene. And it's not trisonomy, it's trisomy and what you're describing is intersex people who can have any combination of X and Y chromosomes, trisomy/monosomy whatever, and they're identified on their physical appearance, not their genes and yes, in a bizarre way, if you make them live like a woman when they want to live like a man and are attracted to women, they'll be considered homosexual :silly:

Crazy Canuck
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:45 AM
Um, as for my serious response on this topic:

Until we have some consistent definitions of sexuality to go on, it's pointness to even have the debate. Is sexuality a stable feature? Or can it change?

It's very easy to just say "it's environmental! a social problem!" and "it's biological! genes baby, genes!" when you're probably not even working with the same concept of sexuality.

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:45 AM
*cuts open viggen and duiz to see how they're different*

Crazy Canuck
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:45 AM
Um, as for my serious response on this topic:

Until we have some consistent definitions of sexuality to go on, it's pointness to even have the debate. Is sexuality a stable feature? Or can it change?

It's very easy to just say "it's environmental! a social problem!" and "it's biological! genes baby, genes!" when you're probably not even working with the same concept of sexuality.

LIke most things, I tend to think that it's probably a combination. These nature-nurture debates are so tired :yawn:

alexusjonesfan
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:47 AM
I heard anecdotes from my gym teacher that if you hold your breath, having yourself cut open doesn't hurt.

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 05:54 AM
I really hope I never find out, but with people like Duiz out there... :sad:

stenen
Apr 5th, 2005, 07:36 AM
Homosexual behaviour occurs in more than 450 different kinds of animals worldwide, and is found in every major geographic region and every major animal group. The same-sex behaviour in animals exhibits every conceivable variation.
After all humans are animals too and since animal homosexuality is astonishingly common it's a natural part of nature for all living beings, even for us humans.

GoDominique
Apr 5th, 2005, 08:04 AM
It was just a question, you don't have to be so obnoxious about it :rolleyes:

If more homosexuals exist in today's society, though as I said, it was more of a feeling because of what you see in today's society compared to a half century ago, it actually is proof of a biological thing. If more exist than in the past, that means that more people have the gene for it than in the past. It's just selection for a specific trait - it would indicate that more people are becoming carriers, which would lead to the recieving of either the dominant allele and the recessive allele for being a carrier or two recessive alleles, which would mean you are a homosexual. At least, that would be the logic.
A very weird logic, I might add.

I don't understand why some say "I didn't choose it, so it must be biological/the genes".
What about things that happened prenatal (okay maybe that's 'biological' too) or in the very early childhood? You wouldn't remember these, but it might still play a role.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 5th, 2005, 08:11 AM
Homosexual behaviour occurs in more than 450 different kinds of animals worldwide, and is found in every major geographic region and every major animal group. The same-sex behaviour in animals exhibits every conceivable variation.
After all humans are animals too and since animal homosexuality is astonishingly common it's a natural part of nature for all living beings, even for us humans.
Duiz - take note. This is biology that makes sense.

creep
Apr 5th, 2005, 08:29 AM
It's due to a rush of hormones when the baby is in the womb.

mandy7
Apr 5th, 2005, 08:30 AM
who cares where it comes form anyway :shrug:
you're either gay, bi, straight or confused
big f-ing deal

Fat Frog
Apr 5th, 2005, 11:05 AM
You aren't aware of it... it is deeper than the just plain and simple traverse of your mind.

I won't discuss anymore on this thread, cause my opinion is just pointless to share. Doesn't matter if it is truth or not, it will be blocked by the blinding pride of the affected viewers. It just another more sterile conflict. :rolleyes:


Duiz i think its amusing seeing scientists, or people who either think they're scientists, or think they know something on a subject try to explain it instead of just accepting that no one knows why it happens.
You say its something that happens in childhood or in the childs upbringing well thats incorrect. I had the same upbringing as my brothers and sisters and had a very untraumatised childhood. Your theory is further discredited when you look at cases of twins where one is gay and the other not..didn't they have a similar upbringing?

Personally i don't think there is a gay gene but i do think that people are either born gay or they're not. Its not the same as saying people are born the way they are in terms of murderers, etc.. which is what i think you're basing your theories on. I think you have to look at this debate in the same way that you'd look at a debate on why people fall in love with certain people. You still think its something in the upbringing? I suppose because your mother bought you 2 lollipops at the shop instead of one you fancied the girl 2 doors down instead of next door? Its simply not the case..no one know why people fall in love with the person they do, ok scientists will talk about chemical reactions in the brain but no one knows why they react for some people and not for others. Its the same for gay people..nobody knows

ceiling_fan
Apr 5th, 2005, 11:36 AM
imo, you become homosexual ; environment, personality. your brother and you are treated the same way at home and one of you turns gay the other doesn't? so what? Everyone experiences different journeys and respond to things differently. oh and if we go with the God theory... (sorry to bring it up, i heard he was banned from the forum but)....he doesn't MAKE homosexuals, so basically they must turn that way. just like he made perfect people and they sinned.

Hot 92 Jamz
Apr 5th, 2005, 11:49 AM
Is homosexuality biological or not?

Yes it is. Why else would anyone subject themselves to the ridicule and bigotry? This is why a lot of men and women stay closeted and unfortunately make themselves, and those around them, terribly unhappy.

jochem
Apr 5th, 2005, 12:53 PM
I believe homosexuality is a combination of biological and enviromental factors, but I do think that the biological factor is much more important. Theyre must be some explanation for the fact that some guys really never wanted to like guys, but just couldn't change their thoughts. I mean, if you are a typically guy-guy, growing up in a normal environment going out with male friends, just doing what every straight guy would do...you don't become straight all of a sudden! They're is something inside that cannot be changed by environmental factors. So there must be something biological involved here. I am not saying there is a gay-gene because I seriously doubt that. It could be a result of a combination of certain genes working together or an influence by hormones. When a baby is growing in his/hers mothers body, it is being exposed to a lot of things like for example hormones. Why can't a different hormone combination, or a lack of for example testosteron, in this fase of the growth play a role? There must be a very complex biological reason, but not yet known.
If that could be discovered in a couple of years, people might stop saying things like, you choose to be homosexual. They're have also been studies that have linked left-handedness to homosexuality. They claimed that in normally 10% of the world is lefty but under homosexuals this percentage is higher, but I am not sure about that last one!!!! :p Could be interesting if it is true...

jochem
Apr 5th, 2005, 12:57 PM
imo, you become homosexual ; environment, personality. your brother and you are treated the same way at home and one of you turns gay the other doesn't? so what? Everyone experiences different journeys and respond to things differently. oh and if we go with the God theory... (sorry to bring it up, i heard he was banned from the forum but)....he doesn't MAKE homosexuals, so basically they must turn that way. just like he made perfect people and they sinned.

Sorry to disagree with you... I just think that responding to things differently is not a very strong argument. I know, nobody knows the answer yet, but not all gays like the fact that they are gay. Just because someone stays in, doesn't have to mean he is scared of the reaction but likes the fact that he is this way. Theyre must be a desicive biological explanation in my opinion.

Szymanowski
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:10 PM
It's a very good question. I cannot even begin to answer it. I am a catholic, and my opinion is that if it's love, it's love full stop, whether gay, or not.

I reckon even if the catholic teaching is correct (which I doubt) and it is a sin to be homosexual, I am no way in a position to judge, and it doesn't harm people. We all do things far worse than to love, so my opinion does not count for a lot.

There are things far worse than love that many christians, and many catholics like me do all the time, and I think often the people who criticise homosexuals are hypocrites of the highest standard. That said, I used to simply follow the catholc teaching, and believe it was wrong as well, so yes, it's a very good question, and an extreemly complicated one.

bionic71
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:14 PM
There is no such thing as gay gene, or being born gay. Those are only excuses made for this social problem. Most of the times it is psychological traumas which are induced in the subconscient of the beholder. The only way you COULD be something that the peopel would call gay is if you suffered of trisonomy XXY. But this is rare.

So no, homosexuality is not biological, but psychological. No turn around, no buts, not ifs, not nothing, gayness is not biological.

"excuses"....oh dear.

No psychological trauma playing any role in me being gay.
Not even going to bother with this absolute absurdness....and your "teacher" needs a Biology1 refresher.
My advice...read widely....then maybe go and chat to a few gay people who might like to share their experiences with you...then rethink your stance.
Remember to always challenge what you think you already know.

Szymanowski
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:35 PM
I'm intrigued by this actually. I'm gonna go and ask my Biology teacher her opinion.

jochem
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:39 PM
There is no such thing as gay gene, or being born gay. Those are only excuses made for this social problem. Most of the times it is psychological traumas which are induced in the subconscient of the beholder. The only way you COULD be something that the peopel would call gay is if you suffered of trisonomy XXY. But this is rare.

So no, homosexuality is not biological, but psychological. No turn around, no buts, not ifs, not nothing, gayness is not biological.

I must admit, making stupid comments DOES open up the conversation :rolleyes: I mean, you could be right off course, but you give absolutely no good reason for saying the things you say. That there isn't a gay gene doesn't mean it is not biological off course. If you had a brilliant school teacher, that is something you really should have known... :rolleyes: ;)

mandy7
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:41 PM
i think i know what makes european gay GUYS gay...
they watched the eurovision songcontest a few times too many when they were young
and that turned them!!

:lol:

(kidding people!!! )

kabuki
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:46 PM
There is no definitive proof one way or the other.

Personally, I don't care.

Shonami Slam
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:46 PM
just like all "mental" issues, sexual attraction is developed in the mother's crucial time of pregnancy.
remember all women out there -
drugs, booz, cigerets, pills, medicine, exotic foods, stress, activity - they all decide what your kid is gunna be.
there is nothing wrong with homosexuality - but it is a cause of disorder the mothers and babys system, just like sychizophrania isn't wrong, but it's cuz the mom used LCD or any other hulusinating drugs. ask what did the doctor give you, what's going on.
people are fucked up because thier moms didn't care what they were doing. depression, panic and stress, insomnia, all kinds of retardnessess. it's all because of what happens when you were 3 months old.

bionic71
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:49 PM
imo, you become homosexual ; environment, personality. your brother and you are treated the same way at home and one of you turns gay the other doesn't? so what? Everyone experiences different journeys and respond to things differently. oh and if we go with the God theory... (sorry to bring it up, i heard he was banned from the forum but)....he doesn't MAKE homosexuals, so basically they must turn that way. just like he made perfect people and they sinned.

Are you gay yourself?

"turns" gay...interesting choice of words. I cannot remember my exact turning point...because there wasn't one....it was a case of always been.

For the purpose of this discussion, I am going to assume that you are not gay...can you share with us when you decided not to "turn" gay (or whatever sexuality you identify with)?.

Dahveed
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:50 PM
imo, you become homosexual ; environment, personality. your brother and you are treated the same way at home and one of you turns gay the other doesn't? so what? Everyone experiences different journeys and respond to things differently. oh and if we go with the God theory... (sorry to bring it up, i heard he was banned from the forum but)....he doesn't MAKE homosexuals, so basically they must turn that way. just like he made perfect people and they sinned.

Indeed, if he doesn't MAKE homosexuals and homosexuals do exist then it means God does not. :wavey:

bionic71
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:52 PM
just like all "mental" issues, sexual attraction is developed in the mother's crucial time of pregnancy.
remember all women out there -
drugs, booz, cigerets, pills, medicine, exotic foods, stress, activity - they all decide what your kid is gunna be.
there is nothing wrong with homosexuality - but it is a cause of disorder the mothers and babys system, just like sychizophrania isn't wrong, but it's cuz the mom used LCD or any other hulusinating drugs. ask what did the doctor give you, what's going on.
people are fucked up because thier moms didn't care what they were doing. depression, panic and stress, insomnia, all kinds of retardnessess. it's all because of what happens when you were 3 months old.

No comment...I'm too tired!

mandy7
Apr 5th, 2005, 01:53 PM
Indeed, if he doesn't MAKE homosexuals and homosexuals do exist then it means God does not. :wavey:

mind if ppl make up their own minds about that? :rolleyes:
cause i don't believe in the g-man

Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:09 PM
just like all "mental" issues, sexual attraction is developed in the mother's crucial time of pregnancy.
remember all women out there -
drugs, booz, cigerets, pills, medicine, exotic foods, stress, activity - they all decide what your kid is gunna be.
there is nothing wrong with homosexuality - but it is a cause of disorder the mothers and babys system, just like sychizophrania isn't wrong, but it's cuz the mom used LCD or any other hulusinating drugs. ask what did the doctor give you, what's going on.
people are fucked up because thier moms didn't care what they were doing. depression, panic and stress, insomnia, all kinds of retardnessess. it's all because of what happens when you were 3 months old.

Well thank you for that, now I have to go vomit :)

Mikey
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:12 PM
A very weird logic, I might add.

I don't understand why some say "I didn't choose it, so it must be biological/the genes".
What about things that happened prenatal (okay maybe that's 'biological' too) or in the very early childhood? You wouldn't remember these, but it might still play a role.

Yeah I know, it is a little bizarre. I think it's because I'm talking by genetics in one of my classes and writing a paper on it, so it's on my mind.

And as for the prenatal/early childhood part, that's pretty much the question - do you think that's what it was or not? Personally, I don't. I don't think that sexuality can be affected in early childhood. Personality traits can be altered, but I think that sexuality is innate. But that's just my opinion, though it's apparently shared by a bunch of others.

Andy_
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:14 PM
just like he made perfect people and they sinned.

Like he made Adam and Eve perfect and then a stupid little snake was enough to lead them into temptation and drive them to sin?

Now, come on... :)

And - just for the sake of logic - if God has created the whole universe, and gay people are matter-of-factly part of this universe... how they possibly have not been created by the very same God?
I guess logic has it that he either has created the whole universe including gay people, or we must infer that he has NOT created the whole universe. And there goes one of your points, right?

*Now I see what all that logic we studied in the first year of uni can be used for ;) *

Fat Frog
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:26 PM
imo, you become homosexual ; environment, personality. your brother and you are treated the same way at home and one of you turns gay the other doesn't? so what? Everyone experiences different journeys and respond to things differently. oh and if we go with the God theory... (sorry to bring it up, i heard he was banned from the forum but)....he doesn't MAKE homosexuals, so basically they must turn that way. just like he made perfect people and they sinned.

u can mention God away but get ur facts straight before you do. Also to D.Hutchings..not criticising what you said because ur comments about hypocritical people is true but the Churchs teaching is that it is NOT a sin to be homosexual but to engage in homosexual behaviour.
Anyway DHfan u obviously haven't a clue what ur talking about so i'm not going to debate you further on this

$pencer
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:30 PM
Are you gay yourself?

"turns" gay...interesting choice of words. I cannot remember my exact turning point...because there wasn't one....it was a case of always been.

For the purpose of this discussion, I am going to assume that you are not gay...can you share with us when you decided not to "turn" gay (or whatever sexuality you identify with)?.
You're right - there ain't no turning point. It is just there and inbuilt. I'd also have to assume people who say stuff like that are not gay themselves.

Borris
Apr 5th, 2005, 02:41 PM
Whatever your opinions are, doesn't matter.

It is already scientifically proven that homo-/bisexuality is a biological variation that is not heredative. They discovered is about 10 years ago. I think you can find the scientifical proof somewhere on the internet.

However, cultural circomstances can repress or promote a sexual tendencies. Example: bisexuals in the Ancient Greece were more likely to have sex ith men then bisexuals in the Far West.

stenen
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:03 PM
just like all "mental" issues, sexual attraction is developed in the mother's crucial time of pregnancy.
remember all women out there -
drugs, booz, cigerets, pills, medicine, exotic foods, stress, activity - they all decide what your kid is gunna be.
there is nothing wrong with homosexuality - but it is a cause of disorder the mothers and babys system, just like sychizophrania isn't wrong, but it's cuz the mom used LCD or any other hulusinating drugs. ask what did the doctor give you, what's going on.
people are fucked up because thier moms didn't care what they were doing. depression, panic and stress, insomnia, all kinds of retardnessess. it's all because of what happens when you were 3 months old.

It would be interesting how you'd apply this theory to the rest of animal kingdom? Did someone accidentally give them drugs, cigarettes, alcohol etc. and they turned gay? :help:
Few examples; Killer whale, Walrus males are primary homosexual; Gray whales, Grey seal, Gazelles, Japanese Macques, Gorillas, Bonobos both female and male are primary homosexual. These are just few examples I could make the list much longer and comprehensive but I feel like it's waste of my time.

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:32 PM
There is no such thing as gay gene, or being born gay. Those are only excuses made for this social problem. Most of the times it is psychological traumas which are induced in the subconscient of the beholder. The only way you COULD be something that the peopel would call gay is if you suffered of trisonomy XXY. But this is rare.

So no, homosexuality is not biological, but psychological. No turn around, no buts, not ifs, not nothing, gayness is not biological.


Now I REALLY understand why you bug me - I studied psychology, and I am a lesbo...and I'm sorry but what you say is not "psychological" (ie from the profession of psychology), but religious belief!

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:35 PM
No... I am in a really advanced biology class at my school, with a real genius at biology, and he spent two hours explaining about homosexuality, trisonomy, and other things... he clarified many things. Not that I am gay, but we were thought about it.


Dude! Biology was my top subject at high school, and I studied it to some degree at Uni, and I have a psych degree! You don't know everything, and you wouldn't know how it's like to be gay anyway!

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:37 PM
I generalize too much. I don't think the people who are gays, or lesbians are social problems, but they suffer of it.

Anyways, I am open. And seems like I forgot the lecture... :rolleyes: Are you serious is not XXY trisonomy the one that makes you be born with two sexual parts, and even though you are defined one sex yourself, if you are removed the wrong sexual organ you will be most likely homosexual?

wtf does XXY trisonomy have to do with most gay people, or are you saying we all have XXY trisonomy now? :scratch:

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:44 PM
imo, you become homosexual ; environment, personality. your brother and you are treated the same way at home and one of you turns gay the other doesn't? so what? Everyone experiences different journeys and respond to things differently. oh and if we go with the God theory... (sorry to bring it up, i heard he was banned from the forum but)....he doesn't MAKE homosexuals, so basically they must turn that way. just like he made perfect people and they sinned.

everyone has sinned, so what? But I'm not gonna get into a religious debate, coz I can't stand religion, and so I know that will turn ugly (and I went to an anglican high school - not by choice).

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:48 PM
I believe homosexuality is a combination of biological and enviromental factors, but I do think that the biological factor is much more important. Theyre must be some explanation for the fact that some guys really never wanted to like guys, but just couldn't change their thoughts. I mean, if you are a typically guy-guy, growing up in a normal environment going out with male friends, just doing what every straight guy would do...you don't become straight all of a sudden! They're is something inside that cannot be changed by environmental factors. So there must be something biological involved here. I am not saying there is a gay-gene because I seriously doubt that. It could be a result of a combination of certain genes working together or an influence by hormones. When a baby is growing in his/hers mothers body, it is being exposed to a lot of things like for example hormones. Why can't a different hormone combination, or a lack of for example testosteron, in this fase of the growth play a role? There must be a very complex biological reason, but not yet known.
If that could be discovered in a couple of years, people might stop saying things like, you choose to be homosexual. They're have also been studies that have linked left-handedness to homosexuality. They claimed that in normally 10% of the world is lefty but under homosexuals this percentage is higher, but I am not sure about that last one!!!! :p Could be interesting if it is true...

I'm a left, and a lesbo...but then there are 3 others lefties at my work (must be the highest lefties to employees ratio ever! :lol: 4 lefties in a team of 12! :lol) are straight...

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:51 PM
i think i know what makes european gay GUYS gay...
they watched the eurovision songcontest a few times too many when they were young
and that turned them!!

:lol:

(kidding people!!! )

:haha: :yeah: Then what about the lesbos? They watched too much voetbal? :p

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:54 PM
just like all "mental" issues, sexual attraction is developed in the mother's crucial time of pregnancy.
remember all women out there -
drugs, booz, cigerets, pills, medicine, exotic foods, stress, activity - they all decide what your kid is gunna be.
there is nothing wrong with homosexuality - but it is a cause of disorder the mothers and babys system, just like sychizophrania isn't wrong, but it's cuz the mom used LCD or any other hulusinating drugs. ask what did the doctor give you, what's going on.
people are fucked up because thier moms didn't care what they were doing. depression, panic and stress, insomnia, all kinds of retardnessess. it's all because of what happens when you were 3 months old.

wtf! One of my best friends is bi-polar...having high and low periods of living, and that's not because of anything her mother did when she was pregnant! :o OMG, what are people being taught these days? :eek: If anything, I'd say alot of mental issues are more likely to have more environmental factors than being gay does!

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 03:57 PM
Indeed, if he doesn't MAKE homosexuals and homosexuals do exist then it means God does not. :wavey:

:worship: :yeah: Good one! :D

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:00 PM
u can mention God away but get ur facts straight before you do. Also to D.Hutchings..not criticising what you said because ur comments about hypocritical people is true but the Churchs teaching is that it is NOT a sin to be homosexual but to engage in homosexual behaviour.
Anyway DHfan u obviously haven't a clue what ur talking about so i'm not going to debate you further on this

right, so in the church, it's ok if a guy goes and wanks over/because of another guy, but as soon as he has sex with another guy it's a sin? :scratch: Now there's logic.

Martian Willow
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:15 PM
I can't be bothered to read all this but I would like to point out that it is A FACT that probability of homosexuality in males is proportional to the number of older brothers he has, to the point where a male with 6 or 7 older brothers has a 50% or higher chance of being gay. This provides statistical evidence of a biological cause for male homosexuality in many cases.

I'll find the very long, boring article about this I posted before if you like. :)

Also on an anecdotal (rather than scientific) level, I have known of several pairs of twin sisters being gay (ie Tegan and Sara), and pairs being straight, but never one gay and one straight.

mandy7
Apr 5th, 2005, 04:38 PM
:haha: :yeah: Then what about the lesbos? They watched too much voetbal? :p

nah, cause then i'd be one too :p

but i'll think of a theory for lesbos too, don't worry :lol:

Scotso
Apr 5th, 2005, 06:44 PM
Indeed, if he doesn't MAKE homosexuals and homosexuals do exist then it means God does not. :wavey:

:worship:

Now that's irrefutable logic.

Monica_Rules
Apr 5th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Well in a recent lecture i had in my Genes and Evolution set of lectures we dissussed homosexuality. Genes work in a way to which will benefit them most- i'm not saying genes can think but genes will randomly mutate and the better mutation i.e the one that offers the individual the better chance of surviving in the end will be come dominant to genes where an individual willl live for a shorter amout of time or will mean a shorter lifespan.

Ok i've gone off track now but anyway if you think about it rationally a homosexual gene would bhe useless as the individual who is homosexual is unlikely to procreate and produce offspring so what would be the point of having homosexual offspring?

In a study carried out in Italy a few years ago with 100 homosexual males they found that women who have homosexual offspring were more fertile than ones without homosexual offspring thus meaning having homosexual offspring is an advantage as it makes you more fertile and able to produce more offspring which will procreate and carry on your gene line also as you have more children more are likely to survive so your gene line is likely to continuw further.

Frank
Apr 5th, 2005, 07:54 PM
I generalize too much. I don't think the people who are gays, or lesbians are social problems, but they suffer of it.

They suffer from it? :scratch:

Erm...Duiz...do you actually know any gay people yourself? Or do they only exist for you in books? :)

Szymanowski
Apr 5th, 2005, 09:27 PM
They suffer from it? :scratch:

Erm...Duiz...do you actually know any gay people yourself? Or do they only exist for you in books? :)
Good posting Frank; I used to have a similar opinion, about 7 or 8 years ago before I knew any Gay friends.

Mariangelina
Apr 5th, 2005, 11:36 PM
I don't want to stifle an interesting discussion, but... why the fuck is it so important? People are gay, they don't choose to be gay, no one can agree why they are gay, it doesn't mean they're fucked up, and the only reason we suffer because of our orientation is because some bigoted individuals think there's something wrong with us.

I'm sorry about not encouraging curiosity and knowledge for once, but I'm just sick of discussions about homosexuality that either degenerate into "I think it's genetic, it's not their fault, they have a disease, maybe in fifty years they can be fixed" or "It's some weird hormonal thing, I heard it on Fox I think, gay guys make more of some female hormone, I forget which one, from some gland whose name I can't remember", or "It's some bad childhood thing, they're confused. Poor things." I have heard things very, very close to all of these arguments.

I'm gay. None of my close relatives are, and I had a very happy childhood with two straight parents who love each other, me, and my straight sister very much. The majority of my life's psychological trauma has come after I realised my orientation. I'm hurt by attempts to categorise me as genetically deficient- I have hypoglycemia and low blood pressure like other family members, that's about as deficient as I get- or hormonally screwed up, or mentally ill. Homosexuality is not a disease; it is simply a characteristic a minority of people have. Red hair is rarer, and it goes with pale skin and a higher incidence of skin cancer, which is certainly bad. I'm a lesbian, I have short legs, curly hair, and low blood sugar. It's the way I am.

Who knows if God decided to give me some extra challenge, or it's a bunch of different genes, or what? I can only assume God meant me to be this way, and you know what? Except for being subject to prejudice by bigots, I like me the way I am.

Kart
Apr 5th, 2005, 11:45 PM
*cuts open viggen and duiz to see how they're different*

You'd probably find lots of peeled bananas in one and unpeeled bananas in the other.

As for the origins of homosexuality, there's an old thread on this in this forum - I'll try and look it up. One of the posters gave a lot of insight into previous research on the topic.

Personally my feelings on the topic have changed since then - mainly in that I don't really think understanding the facts matters ... unless you plan to do something with those facts.

DutchieGirl
Apr 5th, 2005, 11:48 PM
nah, cause then i'd be one too :p

but i'll think of a theory for lesbos too, don't worry :lol:

:lol: OK! :p

ceiling_fan
Apr 6th, 2005, 09:48 AM
OK sorry everyone, now i've heard everyone's opinions, I really don't know what to think anymore..
Is Homosexuality biological or not??
Being biological meaning, you are born homosexual, and you know you ever since you are born, or you born homosexual and you just realize you happen to like people of the same sex. Sure that could work. (and i don't mean this in a sarcastic way)
and Sure, homosexuality being a psychological type thing could work too. Who knows?
SO i'm just going to stop thinking about it and hope that my brain doesn't keep bringing it up...
cheers :wavey:

ceiling_fan
Apr 6th, 2005, 09:51 AM
one more thing... i was just brought up being told that homosexuality was just personal preference. just the same as... say what your favourite colour is?
that seemed simple enough!

Mariangelina
Apr 6th, 2005, 10:22 AM
No, not the best analogy... it's deeper than that. I know everyone says "sexual preference" a lot, but that's not quite right. It's an orientation, not a preference. It's not that I prefer women to men, it's that I'm sexually attracted to women and not to men.

I started to realise I was homosexual when I was eleven or twelve years old. I didn't decide to be, I just was. I don't know why, and it would be kind of interesting to know, but I don't think it's all that important in the long run.

bionic71
Apr 6th, 2005, 10:26 AM
one more thing... i was just brought up being told that homosexuality was just personal preference. just the same as... say what your favourite colour is?
that seemed simple enough!

It is nice read a post from someone who is open to challenging their own preconceived notions....it is a very healthy and mature approach...and you should approach all that you encounter this way.

I can assure you that being gay is not the same as picking your favourite colour. Why would anybody choose something that can often bring them much criticism and make them the subject of hatred and misinformation.

Your sexuality is simply a part of YOU....it is not something that any person decides upon....just as YOU did not decide upon your sexuality...a gay person does not decide upon theirs...it just simply IS.

CanadianBoy21
Apr 6th, 2005, 12:06 PM
I'm getting tired of all the attention we gays are getting. Shows that there is truly a real serious problem with people. I don't care if I'm recognized by the society and get awards for being gay, all I want is to be left alone. So sick of people. Every conversation that turns negative invetibly involves the words fag and gay.
hmm, and that's why I'm still in the closet.






And yes, homosexuality is something you are born with. I did not wake up once when I was 8 and told myself to live the rest of my life as a gay boy.

spindoctor
Apr 6th, 2005, 02:22 PM
There is no such thing as gay gene, or being born gay. Those are only excuses made for this social problem. Most of the times it is psychological traumas which are induced in the subconscient of the beholder. The only way you COULD be something that the peopel would call gay is if you suffered of trisonomy XXY. But this is rare.

So no, homosexuality is not biological, but psychological. No turn around, no buts, not ifs, not nothing, gayness is not biological.

No... I am in a really advanced biology class at my school, with a real genius at biology, and he spent two hours explaining about homosexuality, trisonomy, and other things... he clarified many things. Not that I am gay, but we were thought about it.


Please, I don't know if I should laugh or cry so I do both :lol: :bigcry:
As a medical doctor and psychiatrist I can with certainty say that both you and your teacher have a lot to learn. You don't know a shit.

"Advanced biology with a real genius at biology" Please?! :haha:

DemWilliamsGulls
Apr 6th, 2005, 02:51 PM
I dont know...I think its how someone is raised. As for myself..I grew up around a lot of women and didnt have a father figure around me. I was taught to like women, but i found boys attractive because that's all I heard about from girls around me. I have a 2 younger brothers, one 24 that grew up with me (im 27) he is gay..and we both have the same dead beat father. My other brother is (18) and he is str8 and has a different father. So now that sparks a question if its biological too.

Fat Frog
Apr 6th, 2005, 03:03 PM
right, so in the church, it's ok if a guy goes and wanks over/because of another guy, but as soon as he has sex with another guy it's a sin? :scratch: Now there's logic.

Well i think they consider masturbation a sin too! not saying i agree with their teaching just stating the facts for those who use religion as front against gays when they haven't a clue what they're on about

DevilishAttitude
Apr 6th, 2005, 03:28 PM
There are too many gay threads at the moment :shrug: :rolleyes: I find them pretty unnecessary :o

alexusjonesfan
Apr 6th, 2005, 03:52 PM
You'd probably find lots of peeled bananas in one and unpeeled bananas in the other.



:scratch:

As for the whole debate, I don't have any problem with the choosing homosex thing. Adults have the right to live as they want without having to justify it as something they're forced to do because they were born like that. I'm entitled to choosing it, even if I didn't.

Kart
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:30 PM
:scratch:


Don't eat too many bananas kids, you'll be more likely to become gay.

It was a bit abstract I accept.

BTW get back on Gaby's bandwagon please :armed:.

SM
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:35 PM
There are too many gay threads at the moment :shrug: :rolleyes: I find them pretty unnecessary :o

did someoneput a gun to your head and tell you to read them? moron :wavey:

alexusjonesfan
Apr 6th, 2005, 04:41 PM
It was a bit abstract I accept.

BTW get back on Gaby's bandwagon please :armed:.

riiight...why is all this making me think of Donkey Kong? Man I miss that game :sad:

oh right *hops back on to give Kart company* :rolleyes:

Shonami Slam
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:28 PM
It would be interesting how you'd apply this theory to the rest of animal kingdom? Did someone accidentally give them drugs, cigarettes, alcohol etc. and they turned gay? :help:
Few examples; Killer whale, Walrus males are primary homosexual; Gray whales, Grey seal, Gazelles, Japanese Macques, Gorillas, Bonobos both female and male are primary homosexual. These are just few examples I could make the list much longer and comprehensive but I feel like it's waste of my time.

i do believe in the animal kingdom it comes from a different reason. but if wer'e talking about "my" theory (i'm saying that because i wish it were, i'd be alot richer if i'd have said it in the first place) hormone rushes can cause it as well. as said, stress and tension can cause it too, so i can't tell you for sure what was the "gay" cause for sure, of course. but i really do think in animals it's done from different reasons. wer'e talking about love here, IMO, and more than sexual needs while i don't know what goes on in animals minds.
but i'd think maybe it's closer to us in mammals and such.
hope it sounds understood.
btw
someone said its not nice of my to compare schyziophrenia to homosexuality (yes, i'm very gentle with his exact words), obviously this liberal man thinks gay = OK, but schizos should burn in hell and rot since they are the source of evel :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . think i'm a sexist? go ahead, it won't be the first time people look for punch lines instead of the broader idea in peoples words.

Shonami Slam
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:35 PM
wtf! One of my best friends is bi-polar...having high and low periods of living, and that's not because of anything her mother did when she was pregnant! :o OMG, what are people being taught these days? :eek: If anything, I'd say alot of mental issues are more likely to have more environmental factors than being gay does!

most mental deseases are already proven to be a cause of pregnancy issues. it's not only drugs and booz, it can be alots of stuff, including hormone rushes that accure alot to women when pregnant.
my mum is a psychotherapist, unfortunatly my dad's not a bioligist otherwise i could have asked, but it's mostly chemicals and shit that fuck us minds around. drugs bring out alot of deseases as well, mostly since it really changes the chemichals in our minds and the system kinda collapses sometimes and then we....die. overdose is not eating 105938 kilos of chocolate. it's only 10 grams ok cocain. wuuushhhh and the brain is ruined, that's exactly why we feel high. spooky stuff.

Shonami Slam
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:41 PM
and lastly for all you guys worried about god's role here - i believe in him and i believe people say too much in his name.
read bubber. he'll fix your prejudgement on modern belief.
from what i saw in the world, there are more religous people that accept gay people and abortions than "liberal" people that think religous people are crazy fucks.
which just shows you how much more tolerant and open a man of faith is than that of fact.

apoet29
Apr 6th, 2005, 06:52 PM
What bothers me about the biological/environmental studies of homosexuality/lesbianism is that the very nature of these studies imply that there is something wrong with being gay; therefore, it must be seriously studied, debated and quantified. It is almost as if heterosexuals want to use these studies to define their own sexuality and to make them feel better about the existence of homosexuality in their world.

I look at it this way, whether you are straight or gay, as long as you are a good person, that is all I or anyone else should care about.

esquímaux
May 1st, 2005, 04:26 AM
Homosexuality can crop up biologically or environmentally (being abused). When induced environmentally I consider that a mental disorder rather than true homosexuality. As for those that disregard homosexuals coming about biologically, people have a hard time understanding experiences other than what they have experienced themselves.

esquímaux
May 1st, 2005, 04:26 AM
I dunno...but I do remember chasing other boys at 5 years old. So I don't know how I could've LEARNED that.:haha: :haha: :p

ezekiel
May 1st, 2005, 06:36 AM
I find gays distasteful, even disgusting if I chose to see them or associate with them but I don't and that's why they don't bother me not that I conciously discriminate against them. But there are many other groups that I find even more disgusting and if I had a crusader's complex I would probably rant and rave against them. Look at the religious freaks and how they act even here in america, not to mention the middle east. The right wing war hawks that led us to war in iraq, There are many groups that I am bothered by that act arrogantly and gays are pretty much at the bottom of that list.

I believe gays do serve a purpose in society by their being. You can't make everone the same for once .I believe they are stopping human overpopulation. Think about it, some seeds are just not meant to reproduce and that's what primary role of sex is and we shouldn't want them to reporoduce . I've learned that nature has lots of fascinating ways to balance itself out. If you undestand this then you'll be fine with the gays and nature's role in it. So in that sense I believe it's natural.

But what happens is that some straight people are simply too disgusted by their acts. They believe male and female are made for each other and everything gays do is simply too disgusting. I used to think so but I don't anymore. I really don't know and don't care what they do. These are just personal things that are meant to be ignored.

DutchieGirl
May 1st, 2005, 06:56 AM
most mental deseases are already proven to be a cause of pregnancy issues. it's not only drugs and booz, it can be alots of stuff, including hormone rushes that accure alot to women when pregnant.
my mum is a psychotherapist, unfortunatly my dad's not a bioligist otherwise i could have asked, but it's mostly chemicals and shit that fuck us minds around. drugs bring out alot of deseases as well, mostly since it really changes the chemichals in our minds and the system kinda collapses sometimes and then we....die. overdose is not eating 105938 kilos of chocolate. it's only 10 grams ok cocain. wuuushhhh and the brain is ruined, that's exactly why we feel high. spooky stuff.

OK but the way you say it is that everyone who has a mental disease has it because their mother did something wrong when they were pregnant - I'm sorry but that is just pure rubbish. I don't care if your mum is a psychotherapist or not (that's what I was studying to be btw). My friends Mum is diabetic, and whether or not that had something to do with her daugther being bi-polar, I don't know but then you can;t say it's HER fault that she's diabetic! :rolleyes:

DutchieGirl
May 1st, 2005, 07:06 AM
When induced environmentally I consider that a mental disorder rather than true homosexuality.

OK - this doesn't really make sense...so when people become homosexual because of their environment (ie being abused or something), it's suddenly a disorder, and therefore it's wrong?

DutchieGirl
May 1st, 2005, 07:13 AM
But what happens is that some straight people are simply too disgusted by their acts. They believe male and female are made for each other and everything gays do is simply too disgusting. I used to think so but I don't anymore. I really don't know and don't care what they do. These are just personal things that are meant to be ignored.

That's OK - some gays fnd some things straight people do are disgusting too! :rolleyes: If you don't wanna know, then don't think about it. No one's forcing you to do that stuff... and it's just sex ffs... what, you don't think that straight couples don't have oral sex, or anal sex or something? :rolleyes

Rtael
May 1st, 2005, 07:36 AM
I can't be bothered to read all this but I would like to point out that it is A FACT that probability of homosexuality in males is proportional to the number of older brothers he has, to the point where a male with 6 or 7 older brothers has a 50% or higher chance of being gay. This provides statistical evidence of a biological cause for male homosexuality in many cases.

I'll find the very long, boring article about this I posted before if you like. :)

Also on an anecdotal (rather than scientific) level, I have known of several pairs of twin sisters being gay (ie Tegan and Sara), and pairs being straight, but never one gay and one straight.

I can be a fact to that...I have three older brothers and one is married and two are engaged, and two of those have children. So I, obviously, am the only one that turned out gay, and I'm the youngest...so maybe there's proof in that pudding.

bionic71
May 1st, 2005, 07:43 AM
I find gays distasteful, even disgusting if I chose to see them or associate with them but I don't and that's why they don't bother me not that I conciously discriminate against them. But there are many other groups that I find even more disgusting and if I had a crusader's complex I would probably rant and rave against them. Look at the religious freaks and how they act even here in america, not to mention the middle east. The right wing war hawks that led us to war in iraq, There are many groups that I am bothered by that act arrogantly and gays are pretty much at the bottom of that list.

I believe gays do serve a purpose in society by their being. You can't make everone the same for once .I believe they are stopping human overpopulation. Think about it, some seeds are just not meant to reproduce and that's what primary role of sex is and we shouldn't want them to reporoduce . I've learned that nature has lots of fascinating ways to balance itself out. If you undestand this then you'll be fine with the gays and nature's role in it. So in that sense I believe it's natural.

But what happens is that some straight people are simply too disgusted by their acts. They believe male and female are made for each other and everything gays do is simply too disgusting. I used to think so but I don't anymore. I really don't know and don't care what they do. These are just personal things that are meant to be ignored.

Glad you find that I serve a purpose in society despite being distasteful....how very sweet of you....

So in summary gay people are somehow useful yet unsavoury..that is delightful.

Nice to meet you as well.

DutchieGirl
May 1st, 2005, 07:59 AM
Glad you find that I serve a purpose in society despite being distasteful....how very sweet of you....

So in summary gay people are somehow useful yet unsavoury..that is delightful.

Nice to meet you as well.

:lol:

Brαm
May 1st, 2005, 08:28 AM
Also on an anecdotal (rather than scientific) level, I have known of several pairs of twin sisters being gay (ie Tegan and Sara), and pairs being straight, but never one gay and one straight.Two friends of mine are twins and the one sister is gay, the other one is straight :wavey:

sixfeetfree
May 1st, 2005, 09:07 AM
Even as a small boy, I can remember the 'pretty or attractive' women in my life. I do not consciously recall choosing to find them attractive, I just did and do. I do not ever remember any males in my life to be 'attractive' to me in the same way as females.

People are gay, they don't choose to be gay, no one can agree why they are gay, it doesn't mean they're fucked up, and the only reason we suffer because of our orientation is because some bigoted individuals think there's something wrong with us... Except for being subject to prejudice by bigots, I like me the way I am.
I don't consider myself bigoted because my view about homosexuality differs from yours. Personally, I do not agree with homosexuality but that doesn't mean I consider you less of a person or that I do not respect you as an individual or your beliefs.

I do not consider homosexuals sick, evil or disease ridden. I do not consider homosexuals genetically deficient, psychologically defective, consciously inept or mentally ill - although a case can be made for all of those conditions for everyone here, regardless of sexual preference/orientation. ;)

I personally find it wrong for several reasons, but none that haven't already been discussed in here. Like many of you, I do not understand but I have an open mind and will not think less of you because of your preferences in sexuality, or consumption of fruit for that matter.

It is interesting though that the emotion of anger is so prevelant between those with a differing sexual preference... The unknown can sometimes make us take a step backward, when perhaps we should take a step forward.

esquímaux
May 1st, 2005, 09:45 AM
OK - this doesn't really make sense...so when people become homosexual because of their environment (ie being abused or something), it's suddenly a disorder, and therefore it's wrong? Of course it's a mental disorder. The abuse may cause them to adapt a lifestlye that isn't theirs. For example, had they not been abused, they probably would've been heterosexual.
it's suddenly a disorder, and therefore it's wrong?Yes, any type of abuse is wrong.

esquímaux
May 1st, 2005, 09:51 AM
...what, you don't think that straight couples don't have oral sex, or anal sex or something? :rolleyesTis true, I'm surprised at how quick my buddies are to pop a chick in the dookshoot, yet overtly repulsed by homosexual anal sex. Now that seems kind of odd.

DutchieGirl
May 1st, 2005, 10:06 AM
Of course it's a mental disorder. The abuse may cause them to adapt a lifestlye that isn't theirs. For example, had they not been abused, they probably would've been heterosexual.
Yes, any type of abuse is wrong.

That doesn't make it a mental DISORDER...and I think avery small proportion of people who are abused actually turn gay because of that abuse.

Yes, ABUSE is wrong, but I was saying that being homosexual isn't WRONG...

DutchieGirl
May 1st, 2005, 10:08 AM
Tis true, I'm surprised at how quick my buddies are to pop a chick in the dookshoot, yet overtly repulsed by homosexual anal sex. Now that seems kind of odd.

:shrug: I don't see what the difference is...

SJW
May 1st, 2005, 01:49 PM
i honestly dont know. im more confused by the question and the issues surrounding it than my sexuality myself :p so i'll say. yes. cuz i didn't chose to like both sexes i guess. i just chose to act on it :)

kabuki
May 1st, 2005, 02:02 PM
I find gays distasteful, even disgusting if I chose to see them or associate with them but I don't and that's why they don't bother me not that I conciously discriminate against them. But there are many other groups that I find even more disgusting and if I had a crusader's complex I would probably rant and rave against them. Look at the religious freaks and how they act even here in america, not to mention the middle east. The right wing war hawks that led us to war in iraq, There are many groups that I am bothered by that act arrogantly and gays are pretty much at the bottom of that list.

I believe gays do serve a purpose in society by their being. You can't make everone the same for once .I believe they are stopping human overpopulation. Think about it, some seeds are just not meant to reproduce and that's what primary role of sex is and we shouldn't want them to reporoduce . I've learned that nature has lots of fascinating ways to balance itself out. If you undestand this then you'll be fine with the gays and nature's role in it. So in that sense I believe it's natural.

But what happens is that some straight people are simply too disgusted by their acts. They believe male and female are made for each other and everything gays do is simply too disgusting. I used to think so but I don't anymore. I really don't know and don't care what they do. These are just personal things that are meant to be ignored.

What a steaming pile of crap.

ezekiel
May 2nd, 2005, 01:45 AM
Glad you find that I serve a purpose in society despite being distasteful....how very sweet of you....

So in summary gay people are somehow useful yet unsavoury..that is delightful.

Nice to meet you as well.

You are gay so of course you are touchy about the subject . But once you remove emotions , things become more clear. I agree with you that gays are like that by nature but the reasons for that is deeper than that. Does nature create gays out of the blue or does it have it's own interest of population control?

DutchieGirl
May 2nd, 2005, 02:03 AM
Does nature create gays out of the blue or does it have it's own interest of population control?

Who cares? And why does this make gays "disgusting"?

DutchieGirl
May 2nd, 2005, 02:06 AM
You are gay so of course you are touchy about the subject .

Right, and because you're not gay, you're not touchy about the subject, and can completely remove your emotions from the discussion! :rolleyes: Dude, wake up!

bionic71
May 2nd, 2005, 02:09 AM
You are gay so of course you are touchy about the subject . But once you remove emotions , things become more clear. I agree with you that gays are like that by nature but the reasons for that is deeper than that. Does nature create gays out of the blue or does it have it's own interest of population control?


My sexuality has nothing to do with me being able to produce children or not....I am perfectly fertile and all the bits work correctly. Your population control arguement is troublesome.

Not touchy about the subject at all...more about your approach to the subject....as you display the arrogance that you accuse others of displaying in your initial post.

Its not worth discussing with somebody who states that they find gay people "distasteful" and choses not to associate with people based on their sexuality.
Gays stopping overpopulation....its obvioulsy not working.
And it is a myth that gay people do not have children.

My advice, go and ask a few gay people what is means to actully be gay...what difficulites they may have encountered or continue to face...
oh silly me...I forgot...you don't associate with gay people...nevermind.

Scotso
May 2nd, 2005, 02:57 AM
Just put him on ignore guys, he's obviously just a bigot... there's no sense in arguing with them.

esquímaux
May 2nd, 2005, 03:23 AM
:topic: Speaking of population control, I've been thinking about this for some time. I believe the HIV/AIDS virus is nature's way of trimming back on the human population. When you think about it, nature is all about balance until we wasteful, destructive, and polluting, humans came along and proceed to tip that balance. Just an off-tangent throught :).

ezekiel
May 2nd, 2005, 08:01 AM
Who cares? And why does this make gays "disgusting"?

I am honest here but it was disgusting but I grew tolerance of it. I live here in the city and see gays grope each other or on parades in summer and it really doesn't bother me at all anymore. It's because I understand that they are natural for once.
We are both in agreements that people who say they are gay because it's natural to them.
Disagreement comes when we question why nature makes gay people?

Andy_
May 2nd, 2005, 08:47 AM
What purpose do prejudices serve within the society? Is there a specific reason why nature creates narrow-minded people? What is the role those people are expected to play on the stage of social life?

Today, on WTAWorld Discovery Channel... stay tuned!









:angel:

CooCooCachoo
May 2nd, 2005, 11:30 AM
No... I am in a really advanced biology class at my school, with a real genius at biology, and he spent two hours explaining about homosexuality, trisonomy, and other things... he clarified many things. Not that I am gay, but we were thought about it.

If he is a genius who spent two hours talking to you about trisomy, then why, at the end of those two hours, can you not even spell the word? :)

CooCooCachoo
May 2nd, 2005, 11:34 AM
I live in USA... The teacher also taught us more than he should have. He told us about cases, and it was interesting to know all the cases he told us reduntandly. I am in advanced placement program and International Baccalaureate program...

What does that add? Seriously?

You bragging about your education really is redundant here. Also, many gifted students don't have the financial means to study at IB schools.

CooCooCachoo
May 2nd, 2005, 11:36 AM
i think i know what makes european gay GUYS gay...
they watched the eurovision songcontest a few times too many when they were young
and that turned them!!

:lol:

(kidding people!!! )

That is what happened to me :hehehe: Until I met you :p

CooCooCachoo
May 2nd, 2005, 11:42 AM
I can't be bothered to read all this but I would like to point out that it is A FACT that probability of homosexuality in males is proportional to the number of older brothers he has, to the point where a male with 6 or 7 older brothers has a 50% or higher chance of being gay. This provides statistical evidence of a biological cause for male homosexuality in many cases.

I don't really think this adds much. You may find that people born in a village with dominantly red buildings have a 50% higher chance of being gay than people born in a village with mostly buildings of other colours.

People often think these percentages actually mean anything, but I disagree. It is a nice factoid, but the scientific use and truth of it is often close to zero.

I am not saying this is the case here, but if you could please post the article, I'd be happy :)

mandy7
May 2nd, 2005, 11:44 AM
That is what happened to me :hehehe: Until I met you :p

i made you listen to the killers, let you hear my
deep and sexy voice and turned you back :woohoo:

CooCooCachoo
May 2nd, 2005, 11:49 AM
i made you listen to the killers, let you hear my
deep and sexy voice and turned you back :woohoo:

* Note that I am listening to this year's entries for the Eurovision Song Contest as we speak *

You are so right :yeah:

mandy7
May 2nd, 2005, 11:56 AM
martijn, do i have to kill your computer? :)

STOP LISTENING TO THAT CRAP!
IT'S TOO GAY TO FUNCTION!!!

CooCooCachoo
May 2nd, 2005, 11:59 AM
martijn, do i have to kill your computer? :)

STOP LISTENING TO THAT CRAP!
IT'S TOO GAY TO FUNCTION!!!

Don't worry. I am not listening to Ukraine, Belgium & Poland. So I am avoinding the crap :)

mandy7
May 2nd, 2005, 12:00 PM
stop listening to glennis grace!!! :scared:

CooCooCachoo
May 2nd, 2005, 12:09 PM
stop listening to glennis grace!!! :scared:

She is a very good singer :D But I am not listening to her either :)

mboyle
May 2nd, 2005, 02:37 PM
obviously some very screwed up shit, I think your teacher needs to retake his biology courses again.

Give your evidence, other than what the feel good pagans (aka the liberal idiots) have told you to say. See, you people are so closed minded to the truth. It is as if someone supplied you with all these "don't judge anyone, blame everything else" moral relativist bull crap ideas, and somehow regurgitating those repeatedly whenever someone tries to challenge you makes YOU open minded, and the other person "hateful" and "closed minded.":rolleyes: Man I hate liberal ideaology.

Sam's Slave
May 2nd, 2005, 03:05 PM
it´s a disease.....i got it....

DutchieGirl
May 2nd, 2005, 03:10 PM
Give your evidence, other than what the feel good pagans (aka the liberal idiots) have told you to say. See, you people are so closed minded to the truth. It is as if someone supplied you with all these "don't judge anyone, blame everything else" moral relativist bull crap ideas, and somehow regurgitating those repeatedly whenever someone tries to challenge you makes YOU open minded, and the other person "hateful" and "closed minded.":rolleyes: Man I hate liberal ideaology.

why don't you go back and actually read the thread, where it says there is no proof as yet either way (for whether it's biological or not)...

but from talking to gay people and their experiences, I think it's easier to see why gay people would think it's more biological, coz most gay people have just "known" that they are gay, much like straight people "know" they are straight... or should we start discussing if being straight is biological or not? Coz when it comes down to it, if you're gonna study whether being gay is biological or not, you should really study the other sexuality "groups" as well!

NicoMary
May 2nd, 2005, 05:01 PM
Well i'm a guy and i have sex with guys, i fall in love with guys...etc..I'm GAY

I have never been raped, i'm not crazy, i'm not sick, i'm what some people would call "normal"...

Beeing gay is just like being straigth...this is just an other way of loving

How could some people say that homosexuality is a mental disorder?... who said that the normality is a woman and a man? ...okay in a biologic way..a woman and a man do have children...but what about feelings?

What would you say if I explain to you that each race of animals on earth contains 10% of gay?...it's true, it has been proved...

sex is sex..love its love...if some people are disgusted by gay sex...love between two guys may not give troubles to anyone

Scotso
May 2nd, 2005, 10:48 PM
Give your evidence, other than what the feel good pagans (aka the liberal idiots) have told you to say. See, you people are so closed minded to the truth. It is as if someone supplied you with all these "don't judge anyone, blame everything else" moral relativist bull crap ideas, and somehow regurgitating those repeatedly whenever someone tries to challenge you makes YOU open minded, and the other person "hateful" and "closed minded.":rolleyes: Man I hate liberal ideaology.

Bigot alert.

Szymanowski
May 2nd, 2005, 10:52 PM
I don't know how I can possibly pass a judgement as to whether homosexuality's right or not being so imperfect myself in the eyes of God, so I'd rather accept the fact that there are gay people and allow them to live and love with others of the same sex. This shouldn't make me a bad christian, I want God to guide me and I believe what I've just said to be the best advice I can give re: homosexuality

Martian Willow
May 2nd, 2005, 11:02 PM
I don't really think this adds much. You may find that people born in a village with dominantly red buildings have a 50% higher chance of being gay than people born in a village with mostly buildings of other colours.

People often think these percentages actually mean anything, but I disagree. It is a nice factoid, but the scientific use and truth of it is often close to zero.

I am not saying this is the case here, but if you could please post the article, I'd be happy :)

http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=3881360&postcount=33 :wavey:

Stamp Paid
May 2nd, 2005, 11:35 PM
lmao...interesting story. not sure it applies, but it was interesting.

In Anthropoligy, we learned about the Etoro tribe in Pupau New Guinea. They believe that semen is the life force, and it is precious, and that it must be preserved in order to keep the lifeforce from leaving them, right? They believe that when women have children, that symbolizes a sacrifice of the fathers vitality that will lead to his eventual death. So get this, heterosexual intercourse is reserved only for purposes of reproduction. Heteroesexual sex is taboo excpet for 100 days a year.

Howver, male-male sex is essential. The Etoro believe that for a boy to grow into a grown man, he must get the "life force" from older men. To do this, they must acquire semen orally from older men. From the age of ten until adulthood, young boys are "inseminated" by older men.

I just thought that was something interesting to add to the conversation. :lol:

selking
May 2nd, 2005, 11:41 PM
Bigot alert.

aww congrats, you learned a new word today

Scotso
May 3rd, 2005, 12:23 AM
aww congrats, you learned a new word today

Funny. Especially since we both know that I'm light years beyond you as far as intelligence is concerned.

selking
May 3rd, 2005, 01:34 AM
Funny. Especially since we both know that I'm light years beyond you as far as intelligence is concerned.

:lol: lightyears... odd choice

tterb
May 3rd, 2005, 03:31 AM
Give your evidence, other than what the feel good pagans (aka the liberal idiots) have told you to say. See, you people are so closed minded to the truth. It is as if someone supplied you with all these "don't judge anyone, blame everything else" moral relativist bull crap ideas, and somehow regurgitating those repeatedly whenever someone tries to challenge you makes YOU open minded, and the other person "hateful" and "closed minded." Man I hate liberal ideaology.

Forgive me for failing to see how your argument about "moral relativism" applies here. Is this thread a discussion of pedophilia, rape, or murder? No. It's about homosexuality.

I don't think you'll find a single liberal who will agree with murder, as it is unquestionably wrong. But since when does homosexuality hurt anyone? I define my moral standards on the basis of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you... Not by what any book or teaching tells me. Thus, I have a very definite moral compass; but mine is based in reason, not in fear or ignorance. Until homosexuals do something that can be considered logically "wrong" (as opposed to wrong because a God you have no proof exists said so through his disciples ages ago), what basis do you have for judgment?

As far as moral relativism goes, I don't see liberals as wanting to tolerate every behavior under the sun. But not everything is 100% black and white. A woman using abortion as a form of birth control is different than a woman who aborts a fetus because the risk of lethal birth complications would be too high. Both are technically committing murder, taking the life of another. But do you still view their actions equally under your absolute moral standards?

sixfeetfree
May 3rd, 2005, 04:22 AM
lmao...interesting story. not sure it applies, but it was interesting.

In Anthropoligy, we learned about the Etoro tribe in Pupau New Guinea. They believe that semen is the life force, and it is precious, and that it must be preserved in order to keep the lifeforce from leaving them, right? They believe that when women have children, that symbolizes a sacrifice of the fathers vitality that will lead to his eventual death. So get this, heterosexual intercourse is reserved only for purposes of reproduction. Heteroesexual sex is taboo excpet for 100 days a year.

Howver, male-male sex is essential. The Etoro believe that for a boy to grow into a grown man, he must get the "life force" from older men. To do this, they must acquire semen orally from older men. From the age of ten until adulthood, young boys are "inseminated" by older men.

I just thought that was something interesting to add to the conversation. :lol:

... I'm at a loss for words, literally... uh... um... *rubs temples* god help us