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View Full Version : Kim wins in "SLOPPY" Match!!??...


VS Fan
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:46 PM
Sorry, but I could not help but notice that NO ONE said this about the final.

However if you look at the match statistics, this one is glaring.

Kim, Winners 10 Errors 30
Maria, Winners 18 Errors 34

This match had 28 winners and 64 errors.


Now contrast this with the Venus/ Serena quaterfinal.

That match had 49 winners and 51 errors but was characterized as a "SLOPPY ERROR filled match on MSNBC and other media.

Hmmm... Almost TWICE the winners and a lower percentage of errors.

Looks like a double standard to me! What do you think, and why?

VRee_Willario
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:49 PM
Very well said VS fan!:worship:
It was truly enetrtaining second set between the sisters, and it is judged sloppy. Serena 18 errors, Venus 30, bunch of great winners in both sets and emotion and fighting

RenaSlam.
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:49 PM
Yeah, most people thought the Williams match would have 100 errors or more...oh well.

~Rachel~
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:57 PM
Yeah but the Kim-Maria match was played in totally different circumstances. The wind was a big factor. I don't know whether you saw the match or not but it was clear that the wind was literally altering the path of the ball. They had to be sharp in their footwork to adjust to the changes. That's why there were so many unforced errors from them. It's just that Kim coped better than Maria.

LozHippy
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:06 PM
Now contrast this with the Venus/ Serena quaterfinal.

That match had 49 winners and 38 errors but was characterized as a "SLOPPY ERROR filled match on MSNBC and other media.

According the the tournament site, the Williams Sisters' match had 49 winners, 51 errors, but that still would make it nothing like a sloppy, error filled match

VS Fan
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:12 PM
Note: I fixed the error in my stats.

Still, I get tired of hearing that Williams/Williams matches are "sloppy".

SOMEONE always says this even when the match has excellent rallys and unbelievable winners. They must not watch other matches or check the stats.

LozHippy
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:15 PM
lol you fixed it at the same time I posted.. sorry :)

Scobby- Doo
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:54 PM
Sorry, but I could not help but notice that NO ONE said this about the final.



Because it is job for us- for haters, who can't stand they favourites aren't the best of the world anymore ;)

gentenaire
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:58 PM
When a player manages to retrieve a ball that would have been a winner against every other player, and wins the point because the other -not having expected the ball back- makes a stupid error, that's not a sloppy point, that's in fact a very entertaining point to watch. But in the stats, it's not listed as a winner, but as an error. Stop judging a match by its statistics.

jacobruiz
Apr 3rd, 2005, 05:01 PM
Yeah but the Kim-Maria match was played in totally different circumstances. The wind was a big factor. I don't know whether you saw the match or not but it was clear that the wind was literally altering the path of the ball. They had to be sharp in their footwork to adjust to the changes. That's why there were so many unforced errors from them. It's just that Kim coped better than Maria.

I guess there are still some on this board who don't understand that Kim and Maria played in EXTREMELY strong winds which caused both of them to make more unforced errors than normal. As stated above, Kim did better in this situation than Maria.

VS Fan
Apr 3rd, 2005, 05:18 PM
Well, to all the apologist of the "error filled match" of Kim and Maria, I have this to say.

Venus and Serena have played in the wind also... US open 2001 among others.

Further, I have seen this time and time again, wind or NO WIND.

If Venus and Serena played a match that was ALL winners and NO Errors, we would still hear that it was substandard for some reason from much of the media.

"Serena's sloppy play was unable to even draw a single error from Venus, thus the loss of the match."

"Venus won even though Serena had no unforced errors, she was just lucky to win in spite of sloppy play."

Wimbledon 2002 comes to mind, very low error count for both Venus and Serena, yet considered a typical "Williams/Williams" match by many in the media.

Dana Marcy
Apr 3rd, 2005, 05:22 PM
Sorry, but I could not help but notice that NO ONE said this about the final.

However if you look at the match statistics, this one is glaring.

Kim, Winners 10 Errors 30
Maria, Winners 18 Errors 34

This match had 28 winners and 64 errors.


Now contrast this with the Venus/ Serena quaterfinal.

That match had 49 winners and 51 errors but was characterized as a "SLOPPY ERROR filled match on MSNBC and other media.

Hmmm... Almost TWICE the winners and a lower percentage of errors.

Looks like a double standard to me! What do you think, and why?

DOUBLE STANDARD and the Williams sisters go hand in hand. This sh^t will go on until they retire. I get sick of it but I accept the fact that A LOT of tennis fans (even some, not all, that claim to be objective) love to hate on Venus and Serena. If they had Chanda's (or Zina's or Lori's) career this would NOT be the case.

VS Fan
Apr 4th, 2005, 06:05 AM
Well Geneve,

There is no requirement for wind to find error filled matches from other top players.

Errors are part of the game of power tennis, but if one listens to the media, only Venus and Serena commit them.

dansnewbeg
Apr 4th, 2005, 06:16 AM
That's what I'm wondering - not about Kim/Maria because the wind was a factor - but about the coverage of the WS match. I didn't think it was sloppy at all considering some of their past matches. And more important, there was high drama at the end and that's what people will remember. So kudos to Venus & Serena for putting in their best match yet.

Brαm
Apr 4th, 2005, 06:47 AM
:yawn: Don't put "Kim" in the title when this is actually a thread to defend the Williams sisters once again against the "double standard only they have to deal with".

hablo
Apr 4th, 2005, 08:02 AM
Sorry, but I could not help but notice that NO ONE said this about the final.

However if you look at the match statistics, this one is glaring.

Kim, Winners 10 Errors 30
Maria, Winners 18 Errors 34

This match had 28 winners and 64 errors.


Now contrast this with the Venus/ Serena quaterfinal.

That match had 49 winners and 51 errors but was characterized as a "SLOPPY ERROR filled match on MSNBC and other media.

Hmmm... Almost TWICE the winners and a lower percentage of errors.

Looks like a double standard to me! What do you think, and why?

Was the weather as bad in the Vee/Rena QF?? Just curious!! ;)

SM
Apr 4th, 2005, 08:25 AM
some people looks in to things a bit too much!

ans
Apr 4th, 2005, 01:25 PM
When a player manages to retrieve a ball that would have been a winner against every other player, and wins the point because the other -not having expected the ball back- makes a stupid error, that's not a sloppy point, that's in fact a very entertaining point to watch. But in the stats, it's not listed as a winner, but as an error. Stop judging a match by its statistics.

good reply:)

Bart-Belgium
Apr 4th, 2005, 01:26 PM
Didn't anyone notice the wind!!!? Than its really difficult to play.

And Kim and Maria are both offensive so there's a risk, you know.

TM
Apr 4th, 2005, 01:33 PM
The only thing sloppy about that final was the swirling wind. I don't think some people saw the point where Kim tracked down a nicely angled smash and blocked it back deep and in during an incredible rally...

TM
Apr 4th, 2005, 01:36 PM
...and everything The Sisters do will always be judged as sloppy by our lovely American commentators at ESPN ;)

It's nice that you pointed that out though. Williams fans aren't the blind ones.. :cool:

LozHippy
Apr 4th, 2005, 01:47 PM
According the the tournament site, the Williams Sisters' match had 49 winners, 51 errors, but that still would make it nothing like a sloppy, error filled match

I should have mentioned that supposedly a tv channell gave stats more like 49 winners, 38 errors, so maybe people have different ways of counting the stats.

fammmmedspin
Apr 4th, 2005, 02:32 PM
Sorry, but I could not help but notice that NO ONE said this about the final.

However if you look at the match statistics, this one is glaring.

Kim, Winners 10 Errors 30
Maria, Winners 18 Errors 34

This match had 28 winners and 64 errors.


Now contrast this with the Venus/ Serena quaterfinal.

That match had 49 winners and 51 errors but was characterized as a "SLOPPY ERROR filled match on MSNBC and other media.

Hmmm... Almost TWICE the winners and a lower percentage of errors.

Looks like a double standard to me! What do you think, and why?

Williams errors look like UE because they often occur on first or second strikes of the ball or on easy shots. The contrast between what was intended and what happens is also more marked.- the big winner becomes the lame ball whacked half way up the net or over the backline. its a classic contrast - magnificent turns into pathetic before your eyes and the groan factor registers on the UE counter and reporters as well as everyone else. Their reputation as hit or miss players is born and carries forward to their next miss.

Kim and Maria had long rallies which often end on some sort of error whether its them Graf or God playing. Their errors follow lots of good shots and the good shots create an impression. They often also look like forced errors - often because they were lucky to touch the ball at all. Add to that Miami was windy and only a fool would call it an error if the winf blew the ball out of control.

In Miami all the error counts were inflated because the people counting seem to have counted everything..

fifiricci
Apr 4th, 2005, 02:48 PM
I think the UEs had something to do with the fact that they were playing in a rain interrupted mini tornado in the first set! :rolleyes: