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DemWilliamsGulls
Apr 2nd, 2005, 11:53 PM
Question, with Kim winning today, do you think she will stay on the right track as Serena did...and Justine get in a similar situation Venus is in. Similar situations, different people. Clay season is coming up..and Venus and Justine are better clay players so I think they MAY do better than Serena and Clisters the next few weeks.

Geisha
Apr 2nd, 2005, 11:57 PM
Maybe. It will all fold out in time for RG.

RenaSlam.
Apr 3rd, 2005, 12:01 AM
I'd say both Belgians are overall better than both Venus and Serena on clay. With Justine's variety and Clijsters' footspeed, they will be the frontrunners for Roland Garros.

Chunchun
Apr 3rd, 2005, 12:29 AM
so according you, Kim will have a little slump on clay like serena last year :tape:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Apr 3rd, 2005, 12:31 AM
Venus did well on clay last year, but Serena was bogged with injuries, and by the time she got her game right late in the clay season she ran into Capriati in two consecutive tournies, losing both in close matches.

fammmmedspin
Apr 3rd, 2005, 12:49 AM
Too early to say. Justine's second comeback at the Olympics was impressive but she's doing it more slowly this time. Neither of the Williams sisters has been as good since they came back as they were in 2003 wheras Kim probably is at least as good and less tired so far but its early days still.

alexusjonesfan
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:02 AM
yes, especially if the belgiums keep getting catwalk draws

lucashg
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:02 AM
It's too early to compare Justine's comeback to anyone's, Miami was only her first tournament in seven months. She will get better by the time Roland Garros comes.

Kim is probably a huge favorite for the clay season, though she said she would be glad when it's over because it takes so much from her body, especially her wrist(!?)... Well, good luck to the belgians and to the Williams, I think the four of them will do well, and I'm sure Justine and Kim will win at least one title each. I don't know about Serena, she is good on clay, but it's clearly her worst (or less good) surface, so if she faces Justine or maybe even Kim, she might lose (depending on the previous forms).

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:38 AM
There are no favorites until the season starts.

azmad_88
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:21 AM
yes, especially if the belgiums keep getting catwalk draws

excuse ME..
kim had to face..
anastasia myskina...6
elena dementieva..5
amelie mauresmo 2
maria sharapova...3
u call that easy?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

alexusjonesfan
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:31 AM
excuse ME..
kim had to face..
anastasia myskina...6
elena dementieva..5
amelie mauresmo 2
maria sharapova...3
u call that easy?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:yawn: lies. catwalk draw, CATWALK DRAW!!!

azmad_88
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:39 AM
u r just jeolous kim won!

alexusjonesfan
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:42 AM
u r just jeolous kim won!

catwalk draw!!! :banana:

RenaSlam.
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:44 AM
Viggen, you're annoying as hell. Cakewalk draw? Get off the cocaine.

alexusjonesfan
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:47 AM
Viggen, you're annoying as hell. Cakewalk draw? Get off the cocaine.

no, everyone must know of the belgiums and their catwalk draws RAH!

RenaSlam.
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:56 AM
Look buddy, it's not my fault the Canadians don't have anyone to cheer for. Whoops.

alexusjonesfan
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:10 AM
I miss Leslie :sad:

RenaSlam.
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:26 AM
She sucked.

Zippy
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:31 AM
Question, with Kim winning today, do you think she will stay on the right track as Serena did...

Wow I like Serena too, but this line comparing the the two comebacks is laughable. Stay on the right track as Serena did you say. Please, Serena won 2 tournys last year. She won the Nasdaq upon returning, then didn't win another single tournament until AFTER the US Open. You sound as if Serena was dominating or at least winning tournaments again after her return:rolleyes:

Thus far Kim's return is FAR GREATER than Serena's return. At this time you really can't compare the two.
:wavey:

RenaSlam.
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:33 AM
Wow I like Serena too, but this line comparing the the two comebacks is laughable. Stay on the right track as Serena did you say. Please, Serena won 2 tournys last year. She won the Nasdaq upon returning, then didn't win another single tournament until AFTER the US Open. You sound as if Serena was dominating or at least winning tournaments again after her return:rolleyes:

Thus far Kim's return is FAR GREATER than Serena's return. At this time you really can't compare the two.
:wavey:

I completely agree. While Serena's comeback was impressive, Kim's is FAR more impressive because of the quality of opponents, the number of matches, and how mentally tough it is to win 7 matches in a row...TWICE.

mboyle
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:41 AM
Justine had a good comeback. Maria was unstoppable until the winds came.:wavey: Venus lost to Lisa Raymond in her first tournament after injury. As much as you hate Maria Sharapova, she is far far superior to Lisa Raymond.:wavey: Also, Kim has won 14 consecutive matches, and has beaten the world's no. 1, 2, 3, 5 (twice) and 6 in a span of three weeks. Serena beat just one top ten player in her first tournament back (and Dementieva was only no. 8 or 9 I believe,) and then lost her 8th match to a player outside the top ten.

RenaSlam.
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:46 AM
Yep. Clijsters' comeback is one of the best EVER.

Knizzle
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:50 AM
I miss Leslie :sad:

She hasn't gone anywhere, she just posts under a different name. Believe me, you know her all too well.

tennnisfannn
Apr 3rd, 2005, 05:54 AM
no two players will have the same comeback esp because injutiees hinder players differently. Serena's progress might have been quicker except she kept reinjuring her knee.
Look at justine, out for so long, but when she began to apply pressure to her body, she ijured her knee before the AO.
venus too kept having niggling injuries but she is now getting it together.
Wrist injuries form past experiences of other players don't seem as devasting, venus was able to get right back on in 2000, kim has been able to do it, safin has been able to get back to the top and considering the toughness in the ATP, it took him a little longer.
Justine may be able to get right back on. I hope she does.

Allez-H
Apr 3rd, 2005, 12:13 PM
I think Viggen is right; dem Belgiums are getting too much catwalkdraws :( It's not fair towards the other topplayers :fiery:

Allez-H
Apr 3rd, 2005, 12:49 PM
I think Viggen is right; dem Belgiums are getting too much catwalkdraws :( It's not fair towards the other topplayers :fiery:


How smart are some posters down here :p

Thread Date Posted By Comment
Belgiums comeback simil... Apr 3rd, 2005 02:33 PM azmad_88 its not cat walk....u r just jeolous kim won indian wells and miami..by beating sharapova and ur henin hardenne lost to sharapova

Allez-H
Apr 3rd, 2005, 12:50 PM
Damn I'm soooo jealous :sad: and who the hell is Justine :o

ans
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:07 PM
no, everyone must know of the belgiums and their catwalk draws RAH!

I remember Leslie and her catwalk draw:D

Filip!
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:16 PM
Justine did not pick up a racket for months. Kim did. Both girls had a great comeback, but you can't compare it.

moby
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:27 PM
Damn I'm soooo jealous :sad: and who the hell is Justine :o

I think he meant Christine. For sure, Christine is the better Belgium, and she never has catwalk draws, unlike the other Belgium. :p

azmad_88
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:27 PM
i dont understand why people kept on saying kim and justine had a catwalk drraw

justine had to beat an inform MOLIK!!!
kim had to beat DECHY MYSKINA DEMENTIEVA MAURESMO SHARAPOVA!

belgians comeback is not similar...its BETTER than williams..im soryr williams fan..i think belgians comeback is slightly better...but still all 4 of them is damn good

starr
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:46 PM
CATWALK DRAW :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

That brings back old memories. :)

gentenaire
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:52 PM
I remember Leslie and her catwalk draw:D

So do I, those were the days...*sigh* Kim and Justine only had to beat Burburry and Louise Vuitton, whereas Serena had Versacova and Guccic in her draw!

skanky~skanketta
Apr 3rd, 2005, 01:59 PM
i dont understand why people kept on saying kim and justine had a catwalk drraw

justine had to beat an inform MOLIK!!!
kim had to beat DECHY MYSKINA DEMENTIEVA MAURESMO SHARAPOVA!

belgians comeback is not similar...its BETTER than williams..im soryr williams fan..i think belgians comeback is slightly better...but still all 4 of them is damn good

aduhai!

adik, they're just pulling your legslah!

janganlah marah!mereka nie belgian fans.:lol:

Allez-H
Apr 3rd, 2005, 02:00 PM
i dont understand why people kept on saying kim and justine had a catwalk drraw

justine had to beat an inform MOLIK!!!
kim had to beat DECHY MYSKINA DEMENTIEVA MAURESMO SHARAPOVA!

belgians comeback is not similar...its BETTER than williams..im soryr williams fan..i think belgians comeback is slightly better...but still all 4 of them is damn good
They have catwalk draws OK :fiery: OTHERWISE THEY WOULDN'T BE WALKING ON HIGH HEELS IN THEIR BEST CLOTHES ALL DAY :rolleyes: This is soooooooooo unfair towards all the other topplayers :(

http://cache.wtnphotos.com/574/1z-hellomag01-4.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/fleemke/websitepandora/fotos%20goed/elle/justine3.jpg

azmad_88
Apr 3rd, 2005, 02:21 PM
|OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i fel so EMBARRESED RIGHT NOWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gunter
Apr 3rd, 2005, 02:28 PM
Venus and Justine are better clay players so I think they MAY do better than Serena and Clisters the next few weeks.
:haha: :haha: Venus better than Kim on clay :lol: :lol:

ans
Apr 3rd, 2005, 02:35 PM
They have catwalk draws OK :fiery: OTHERWISE THEY WOULDN'T BE WALKING ON HIGH HEELS IN THEIR BEST CLOTHES ALL DAY :rolleyes: This is soooooooooo unfair towards all the other topplayers :(

http://cache.wtnphotos.com/574/1z-hellomag01-4.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/fleemke/websitepandora/fotos%20goed/elle/justine3.jpg

:lol: :lol:

..ikke..
Apr 3rd, 2005, 02:56 PM
Kim's come-back is much more impressive then Serena's
Winning two very big tournaments and beating Sharapova, Mauresmo, Myskina, Dementieva and Davenport :eek:
All the matches against them she won easily except the match against Davenport

pigam
Apr 3rd, 2005, 05:34 PM
the dutch belgium has a great comeback
the french belgium remains to be seen

Andy T
Apr 3rd, 2005, 06:59 PM
Belgium is the name of the country. A person from Belgium is a Belgian.

Venus did better on clay than on any other surface last year but even then she didn't beat a top tenner, so I'm not that convinced that she's proven herself on clay quite yet.

Justine and Serena have both won RG and Kim has made two finals there (as oppposed to Venus' one - the only time she got further than the quarters). I'd say that given the likelihood that Venus will have a low seeding at RG, it'll be surprising if she gets further than the QF this year.

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2005, 07:14 PM
Hmmm......I think aas someone pointed out.....wrists injuries are easier to deal with...Kim really could still do everything, whereas Serena and Venus were really limited...but kudos to Kim.....winning IW and NAsdaq is impressive REGARDLESS.....although I think the boycott of Serena has prevented her from doing it sooner...

Knizzle
Apr 3rd, 2005, 07:22 PM
Belgium is the name of the country. A person from Belgium is a Belgian.

Venus did better on clay than on any other surface last year but even then she didn't beat a top tenner, so I'm not that convinced that she's proven herself on clay quite yet.

Justine and Serena have both won RG and Kim has made two finals there (as oppposed to Venus' one - the only time she got further than the quarters). I'd say that given the likelihood that Venus will have a low seeding at RG, it'll be surprising if she gets further than the QF this year.

How is Venus not "proven" on clay yet??

LeRoy.
Apr 3rd, 2005, 07:27 PM
How is Venus not "proven" on clay yet??

She didn't beat a top ten player on her only "impressive" run on clay last year. :)

Knizzle
Apr 3rd, 2005, 07:29 PM
She didn't beat a top ten player on her only "impressive" run on clay last year. :)

Her career exists further than just 2004, so what's your point. She beat good players during that run, just because they hadn't become top ten yet. They became top ten later that year and one even went to top 5.

Mercury Rising
Apr 3rd, 2005, 07:46 PM
I miss Leslie :sad:
:haha: :lol: you're too much :worship:

Mercury Rising
Apr 3rd, 2005, 07:54 PM
Belgium is the name of the country. A person from Belgium is a Belgian.


:eek: I thought it was just the other way around :banghead:

TF Chipmunk
Apr 3rd, 2005, 07:59 PM
Hmmm......I think aas someone pointed out.....wrists injuries are easier to deal with...Kim really could still do everything, whereas Serena and Venus were really limited...but kudos to Kim.....winning IW and NAsdaq is impressive REGARDLESS.....although I think the boycott of Serena has prevented her from doing it sooner...



Yeah, Justine was running like a dog the months where she was "supposedly" sick :rolleyes:

gentenaire
Apr 3rd, 2005, 08:21 PM
She hasn't gone anywhere, she just posts under a different name. Believe me, you know her all too well.

Does she post in Maria threads?

alexusjonesfan
Apr 3rd, 2005, 08:27 PM
I can't believe I never recognized my favourite transexual :eek:

Zippy
Apr 3rd, 2005, 08:30 PM
Question, with Kim winning today, do you think she will stay on the right track as Serena did...and Justine get in a similar situation Venus is in. Similar situations, different people. Clay season is coming up..and Venus and Justine are better clay players so I think they MAY do better than Serena and Clisters the next few weeks.
Well since this thread is still going...

While we're in the mood of comparing comebacks and what-knots. Rena's comeback of 04 though successful or "stay(ed) on the right track", was not really that much better than Kim's 04 season. Kim also won 2 tournys and was a Slam finalist last year:p I think comparing their 04 seasons is a much more similar comparison than comparing Rena's 04 comeback to Kim's 05 comeback, at least at this time;)


Also in no way has Venus ever proven to be a "better clay player" than Kim thus far. I believe Venus has only advanced past the qtrs once at RG. Kim has been a finalist twice now.
:wavey:

starr
Apr 3rd, 2005, 08:31 PM
Hmmm......I think aas someone pointed out.....wrists injuries are easier to deal with...Kim really could still do everything, whereas Serena and Venus were really limited...but kudos to Kim.....winning IW and NAsdaq is impressive REGARDLESS.....although I think the boycott of Serena has prevented her from doing it sooner...

This has been said so many times that people are beginning to treat it as gospel.

Kimmy was NOT able to "do everything." After the surgery she wasn't allowed to run or practice her strokes AT ALL. The only thing she could do was ride a stationary cycle. This is the same thing that Venus and Serena could do. Cycling is the primary rehab for knee surgery. I think reclining cycling is okayed for abdominal tears.

So people have the idea that Kimmy was out there practicing everything except her backhand which is completely untrue. Read her interview. She couldn't even pick up a racket until January. She wasn't allowed to run. She certainly wasn't lifting weights. Maybe she could do some leg work, but she had to treat that wrist like a tiny little baby.

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2005, 08:46 PM
My bad then, starr.....even more impressive then...

Knizzle
Apr 3rd, 2005, 09:48 PM
Does she post in Maria threads?

Yes, she's probably the biggest Maria hater.

Knizzle
Apr 3rd, 2005, 09:50 PM
Well since this thread is still going...

While we're in the mood of comparing comebacks and what-knots. Rena's comeback of 04 though successful or "stay(ed) on the right track", was not really that much better than Kim's 04 season. Kim also won 2 tournys and was a Slam finalist last year:p I think comparing their 04 seasons is a much more similar comparison than comparing Rena's 04 comeback to Kim's 05 comeback, at least at this time;)


Also in no way has Venus ever proven to be a "better clay player" than Kim thus far. I believe Venus has only advanced past the qtrs once at RG. Kim has been a finalist twice now.
:wavey:

I didn't realize that RG was the only tournament that featured clay, go figure?? No wonder it's so hard to win. :crazy:

Zippy
Apr 3rd, 2005, 10:27 PM
I didn't realize that RG was the only tournament that featured clay, go figure?? No wonder it's so hard to win. :crazy:
Someone stated "Venus and Justine are better clay players so I think they MAY do better than Serena and Clisters "

I like to post facts in combination with my opinions. So to refute that arguement, I simply stated RG results as an example, because I couldn't find a site that told me the amount of clay court Tier II & above titles for each player (being Venus & Kim). That said, I'm pretty sure that Venus doesn't have that many (if more at all) more clay court titles than Kim. Even though she (Venus) has been with the tour a few years longer. :p
:wavey:

Knizzle
Apr 3rd, 2005, 11:40 PM
Someone stated "Venus and Justine are better clay players so I think they MAY do better than Serena and Clisters "

I like to post facts in combination with my opinions. So to refute that arguement, I simply stated RG results as an example, because I couldn't find a site that told me the amount of clay court Tier II & above titles for each player (being Venus & Kim). That said, I'm pretty sure that Venus doesn't have that many (if more at all) more clay court titles than Kim. Even though she (Venus) has been with the tour a few years longer. :p
:wavey:

Venus has 6 clay court Tier 2 and above titles(2 Tier 1, 4 Tier 2) and that one RG final and 3 QFs. Also a 75-17 record lifetime on clay a .815 winning percentage.

Kim has 2 clay court Tier 2 and above titles(1 Tier 1, 1 Tier 2) and 2 RG finals. A 48-14 record lifetime on clay a .774 percentage.

Zippy
Apr 4th, 2005, 12:19 AM
Thanks Knizzle for posting those statistics :D

Vee does have a pretty amazing clay record, and so does Kim in her own right. I must say winning 82% of her clay courts matches is just REDICULOUS :eek: [rediculous in a good sense]

77.4% is not too shabby either, so ultimately one could make a case (in who's the better clay courter) for either girl. Hopefully both will continue to build on their awesome clay court records these next 2 months.

C'mon Justine & Vee. Get back to the top :bounce:
No offense Kim. I already know you will ;)

Stamp Paid
Apr 4th, 2005, 02:34 AM
The Belgians trained hard in their rehabilitation effort to come back to tennis.

The williamses did not.

and the results of the belgians in the coming months will prove such.

Andy T
Apr 4th, 2005, 03:26 PM
Venus has 6 clay court Tier 2 and above titles(2 Tier 1, 4 Tier 2) and that one RG final and 3 QFs. Also a 75-17 record lifetime on clay a .815 winning percentage.

Kim has 2 clay court Tier 2 and above titles(1 Tier 1, 1 Tier 2) and 2 RG finals. A 48-14 record lifetime on clay a .774 percentage.

Venus is three years older than Clijsters. Below is a list of her lifetime wins against her current rivals on clay.

Justine -1 (Amelia Island 2002)
Amélie - 0
Lindsay -0
Kim - 0
Serena - 1 (Italian Open 1998)
Maria - 0
Elena D. -0
Nastya - 1 (Amelia island 2002)
Sveta - 1 (Warsaw 2004)
Jen - 0

Hardly the resumé of a great claycourter.

Tennisaddict
Apr 4th, 2005, 05:20 PM
I don't think that any of the comebacks can be compared because all four had different injuries which they recovered differently from, obviously. Kim made it to the quarterfinals in her first tournament back so did Justine in a tougher field and with more rounds. So virtually Justine has the same chance to win her next two tournaments, if she's fully recovered. Venus and Serena also kept re-injuring themselves troughout 2004 so that didn't do wonders for them either. I actually think that Venus had a good shot at Roland Garros 2004 before she injured her ankle in Berlin. I'm amazed and thrilled that Kim won the March Double but I can't help to think what would've happened if she had run in to the WS in the last couple of weeks.

Knizzle
Apr 4th, 2005, 06:22 PM
Venus is three years older than Clijsters. Below is a list of her lifetime wins against her current rivals on clay.

Justine -1 (Amelia Island 2002)
Amélie - 0
Lindsay -0
Kim - 0
Serena - 1 (Italian Open 1998)
Maria - 0
Elena D. -0
Nastya - 1 (Amelia island 2002)
Sveta - 1 (Warsaw 2004)
Jen - 0

Hardly the resumé of a great claycourter.

Umm, she played Justine twice on clay. Momo once where Venus lead before getting injured, Has NEVER faced Lindsay on clay, why you put her name up there trying to SPIN the stats I don't know. She's 0-1 vs Kim on clay losing a 3 setter 6-1, 3-6, 4-6. That was more of a loss of focus rather than limited ability to play on clay. She's 1-1 vs Serena on clay Has never played Maria or Elena on clay so once again I don't know why their on this list. She's 1-1 against Myskina on clay and 1-0 vs Sveta. Last, but not least she hasn't played Jen on clay either so I don't know why you mentioned her, this was a really lame attempt to make Venus look bad, you really could have done better here. Venus' career on clay is bigger than these players. I guess all the work she's done in the past has no bearing on whether she's good on clay.

Andy T
Apr 4th, 2005, 06:48 PM
Umm, she played Justine twice on clay. Momo once where Venus lead before getting injured, Has NEVER faced Lindsay on clay, why you put her name up there trying to SPIN the stats I don't know. She's 0-1 vs Kim on clay losing a 3 setter 6-1, 3-6, 4-6. That was more of a loss of focus rather than limited ability to play on clay. She's 1-1 vs Serena on clay Has never played Maria or Elena on clay so once again I don't know why their on this list. She's 1-1 against Myskina on clay and 1-0 vs Sveta. Last, but not least she hasn't played Jen on clay either so I don't know why you mentioned her, this was a really lame attempt to make Venus look bad, you really could have done better here. Venus' career on clay is bigger than these players. I guess all the work she's done in the past has no bearing on whether she's good on clay.

I know she hasn't played several of these women and I wasn't trying to bend any stats. Hey, if she cleans up on clay and wins RG, that's fine with me - i'm not anti-Venus.

The point here is that her credentials going into RG are not those of a great claycourter. She's only beaten one of her major rivals on clay since 2002 and that was Kuznetsova before Sveta was even in the top 10.

It's all very well to say she's won 6 titles on clay and her w/l % is over 82% but when she has so few big victories to her name on the surface against the women she'll have to beat to win in RG, I'd say she has it all to prove right now. NB I'm not saying she can't or won't, just that the indicators are not, imo, so positive as some around here say.

Knizzle
Apr 4th, 2005, 07:02 PM
I know she hasn't played several of these women and I wasn't trying to bend any stats. Hey, if she cleans up on clay and wins RG, that's fine with me - i'm not anti-Venus.

The point here is that her credentials going into RG are not those of a great claycourter. She's only beaten one of her major rivals on clay since 2002 and that was Kuznetsova before Sveta was even in the top 10.

It's all very well to say she's won 6 titles on clay and her w/l % is over 82% but when she has so few big victories to her name on the surface against the women she'll have to beat to win in RG, I'd say she has it all to prove right now. NB I'm not saying she can't or won't, just that the indicators are not, imo, so positive as some around here say.

Conchita never won RG, so does that make her not impressive on clay?? She hasn't played many of these top rivals on clay, last year specifically because most of the time they couldn't advance far enough to meet her.

ans
Apr 4th, 2005, 08:15 PM
She's 0-1 vs Kim on clay losing a 3 setter 6-1, 3-6, 4-6. That was more of a loss of focus rather than limited ability to play on clay.

Is it also possible that Kim was just better that day or is that an option you immediately count out?

Knizzle
Apr 4th, 2005, 08:17 PM
Is it also possible that Kim was just better that day or is that an option you immediately count out?

Obviously she was better that day cause she won. Where did I say/imply she wasn't better??

Andy T
Apr 4th, 2005, 09:25 PM
Conchita never won RG, so does that make her not impressive on clay?? She hasn't played many of these top rivals on clay, last year specifically because most of the time they couldn't advance far enough to meet her.

Conchita made one final and 3SF at RG and over 20 clay court titles in her career, including 4 Italian Opens and the German Open. Even so, she had a lousy record against Steffi and Monica on the surface, only beat ASV three times and was never the frontrunner going into RG.

Venus hasn't won RG (fact: she's only made it past the QF once and has lost before the QF in 4/8 visits to RG), she hasn't beaten a top 10 ranked player on clay since Hamburg in 2002 when she beat the soon-to-retire #4 Martina Hingis and Amelia Island just before, when she beat Henin, and she's only got a winning h2h on clay against 1 of the women who arelikely to be her major rivals this year. And she hasn't won a tournament of any description for 11 months.

Knizzle
Apr 4th, 2005, 09:37 PM
Venus hasn't won RG (fact: she's only made it past the QF once and has lost before the QF in 4/8 visits to RG), she hasn't beaten a top 10 ranked player on clay since Hamburg in 2002 when she beat the soon-to-retire #4 Martina Hingis and Amelia Island just before, when she beat Henin, and she's only got a winning h2h on clay against 1 of the women who arelikely to be her major rivals this year.

Like I said before, Venus' career on clay is bigger than these miniscule stats you are providing. If you aren't going to take her whole body of work into account when assessing her game on clay then you might as well not say anything. It's easy to point out her shortcomings, but if you take the time to look at her uprisings they would FAR outweigh the shortcomings.

Not that it's important, but she beat Monica Seles 6-4, 6-3 at RG 2002. I believe Seles was top ten at the time.

And she hasn't won a tournament of any description for 11 months. This is totally irrelevant.

Sir Stefwhit
Apr 4th, 2005, 10:21 PM
This has turned into the 'Venus vs. Kim on clay' thread...

Not only am I more of a Kim fan, but I also have more faith in Kim on clay than I do with Venus (at this point in time), but let's not twist facts- Venus is the more accomplished clay court player of the two. While Kim has the slightly better record at RG, Venus has the edge in every other category on the dirt. They both have almost the same amount of losses (Kim-14, Venus-17,) but Venus has 27 more wins on the dirt. Although Venus has been on the tour longer, Kim played more clay court tournaments earlier on than Venus did. In Venus’ first 10 tournaments on clay she was able to make the finals of Rome (her fourth clay event), win Hamburg (her 7th clay tournament), and win Rome (her 8th clay tournament). Kim on the other hand, lost in the first round 4 out of 10 of her first times on clay. Kim did manage to win Hamburg (her 6th clay event), and also Berlin (her 10th clay event).

(I posted this in another thread but it seems like it belongs in this thread):

Venus: (75-17)
Rome (F)-98
Hamburg (W)-99
Rome (W)-99
Hamburg (W)-01
Amelia Island (W)-02
Hamburg (F)-02
Warsaw (F)-03
Charleston (W)-04
Warsaw (W)-04
German Open (F)-04
*1 French Final

Kim: (48-14)
Hamburg (W)-02
German Open (W)-03
Rome (W)-03
*2 French Finals

I have a feeling that if they meet up on clay this year, Kim's going to win- but that's not based on results from long ago, it's based on a hunch, as well as Kim's awesome play- which I'm sure will spill over to the clay courts...

GO KIMMIE.... :bounce: