PDA

View Full Version : different views on how kims game matches up with maria's


tennisjunky
Apr 1st, 2005, 11:48 PM
lot of threads about the kim vs. maria final coming up. i thought one comprehensive thread for how their games match up would be nice. in various other threads i read some interesting views on how they match up so i just added them all to this thread.

tennisjunky
Apr 1st, 2005, 11:49 PM
I think that Sharapova's game matches well against Clijsters game. There are two components of the game in which Dementieva and Mauresmo are not good while Sharapova excels , and those two components are Kim's vulnerability. Kim is an excellent defender, but a player who is capable of serving big and winning her service points on 1-2 strikes will instantly put Kim under serious pressure, and Sharapova is sucha player. If Sharapova serves well, by holding her serve she will be able to swing at will on returns. Second point is handling relatively short balls. As a defender Kim gives away plenty of those. Mauresmo simply does not have enough power to put those balls away. Dementieva's handling of short balls is her weakness - while her footwork is excellent on the baseline, she almost always hits from awkward positions on short balls and overhits plenty. Sharapova has a formidable abilty to handle short balls.

And the last but not least.. When was the last time Clijsters defeated a dominant and mentally tough player in a major match? I am afraid .. never..
i donít think maria will be broken too often, so i agree that kim will have more pressure on her service games. we all know how good maria is at breaking serve so i think things look good for maria. kim loves to run and she loves to make her opponents run too. kim does hit a lot of balls close to the baseline, but when she is chassing balls back and doing her splits, she slices the ball back in. her slices sometimes land short and i think those are the short balls you are talking about. maria will eat those for lunch. since kim is good at placing the ball where she wants it, itís possible that could get maria tired in a long match. at this point kim has to be just as tired as maria, probably more.

tennisjunky
Apr 1st, 2005, 11:50 PM
Dave's Keys to the match:

Kim's return: Against good servers, like Lindsay, Kim has always returned VERY well (not winners, but returns that make the point close to nuetrel). Maria probably won't be able to rely on her serve for many free points.

Maria's return: Big weapon. Kim's serve is solid, but not great. If Maria can pump up the agression and keep it under control, she will have a lot of success on Kim's serve.

Maria's groundies: Kim will get a lot of balls back. Stats wise, if you have to hit two put away shots instead of one, you are twice as likely to make an error. Maria needs to avoid these numbers--she will need more than 6 or 7 winners per set as Kim gives away very few forced errors, but at the same time keep her errors low. If she can attain this level of aggression and keep her errors low, she will have a good shot.

Kim's Aggression- People always say Kim is a defensive player, but I always classify her as a counter-puncher. That being said, if she can be aggressive enough times, she will really annoy Maria. Maria's game is centered around controlling the points, and she might feel like she has to go for more than she should. Kim's ability to be aggresive may cause Maria's groundies to become erratic, much like we see with Lindsay. Kim is a difficult player for the powerful because they have to hit just the right balance of power and patience.

Overall, Maria is a player who is out there to be aggressive and control points. Its not just Kim's ability to defend that helps her in this match up, but its her ability to turn the point around and be aggressive. I think Marie has really not faced a counter-puncher at Kim's level. If Maria is playing at her very top level she will win, but I think she will need another match to take a win from Kim.

Kim in 3.
kim is good at blocking big serves back into play, but that wont cut it against maria. if maria gets a weak reply itís lights out for kim. maria has a far more aggressive return and that will put kim under all kinds of pressure.

maria will be dictating 90% of all the rallies. if maria keeps her UEs low there wont be much kim will be able to do about it. i do think kim is aggressive but sheís aggressive in a different kind of way. she goes for the winners at the perfect times, she doesnít do it right away or take lots of risks. she usually will get her opponent scrambling from side to side, but she since maria attacks right away kim wont have time to execute.

maria in 2

ceiling_fan
Apr 1st, 2005, 11:52 PM
argh my brain is exploding with everything you said... basically in my head, kim will either win a 2 setter or maria a 3-setter :lol:

tennisjunky
Apr 1st, 2005, 11:52 PM
I think that Clijsters game matches up well against Sharapovaís game. Kim gets all the credit she rightfully deserves with regards to her defensive play, but many people fail to credit her offensive play and her ability to get her opponents on the run. The players that have the most success against Kim are the players who are good at turning a defensive shot into an offensive one. In addition to being able to tea off on the ball, the players who are successful against Kim are also amongst the quickest on tour as well. Kim will make Maria hit a lot of extra balls- so hitting one winner per rally wonít be enough. Although Maria has gotten a lot quicker over the last year, I still think Kim will be able to exploit Mariaís movement from side to side, as well as from baseline to the net. Kim can absorb a lot of power, so sheís not too worried about Mariaís pace- she can handle it. If Kim is indeed tired, she may have her work cut out for her. Maria and Lindsay have a lot of similarities- they have the same strengths and weaknesses. Kimís game matches up well with Lindsay's for a lot of the reasons I mentioned and itís not much different with regards to Maria. While I think you make a lot of valid points, I donít think I agree with you that Kimmie gives up a lot of short balls. Kimmie, for the most part, has pretty good depth on most of her shots. As for Kimmieís mental ability to get the job done... I have a feeling if Kim can put herself in position to win, she will do just that. If Maria can keep her errors low and her winners high then it will tough for Kimmie, but Maria will have to be on cuz Kimmie isnít going to give it to her...
two things about kim you mentioned that are true
1. she is good at making her opponents work hard and run a lot
2. shes good both offensively and defensively

things still favor maria though. from the first strike of the ball maria will put kim on the defensive and kim wont see many balls that she will be able to work with. kim is going to be busy chassing balls from side to side. she wont be able to move the ball around like she normally does so well. sure she will make maria hit a lot of extra balls by chassing everything down and slicing it back to maria. when the balls do come back maria will be ready to smack the ball into the open court for the winner. people keep saying kim is good at turning a defensive point into an offensive one, but that is not true. kim is the best at keeping a ball in play, but 9 out of 10 times she will slice them back in. she even slices shots back in on her forehand side. that will not be effective enough to bother maria. kims only chance is if maria hits a lot of unforced errors, or if maria is extremly tired.

tennisjunky
Apr 1st, 2005, 11:53 PM
makes the final, the title is hers. So far she has only lost one final to molik and even that one was under an injury cloud, shoulder was bothering her.
Kim on the other hand has won and lost many finals. Maria reminds me of a season in Venus' life when she was 17/1 in finals. I miss those days.
Great as Kim is playing I believe maria's style of play will be to her what serena's, venus' and Justine's games are for her.
Here is another reason why maria should win this final, so far she has managed to win one of everything, from a tier 4/5 to slam, she has it all except the super tier1. Destiny is with this child!
Love Kim but I want maria to complete the winner's circle.
maria will be another person to add to the list of players who have no trouble taking care of kim!

tennisjunky
Apr 1st, 2005, 11:54 PM
Maria's game is all about 1st strike. If she cant get the first strike, she usually loses because she starts to make errors. Not many players can get enough balls back to trouble Maria, however Kim will. Kim has the best defense on the tour, and can easily turn a defensive situation into an offensive situation. Maria hits a ball much like Davenport's, and Kim loves the ball from Davenport. This may go 3 sets, but it will be Kimmie winning the March Doubel!
agree that its crucial for maria to get the first strike of the ball. donít agree that kim is good at turning defense into offense. mary jo says that all the time about kim and now people believe it to be true. kim is good is probably the best defensive player on tour. she will get to anything but when she does she will just slice it back into play. one big difference between davenport and sharapova is their quickness on court. maria may not be the fastest be shes right up there.

tennisjunky
Apr 1st, 2005, 11:55 PM
well certainly mixing it up and getting tons of balls back and keeping it close are the keys to winning. that's clijsters' game, and i wouldn't expect her to try to do anything less. it's just hard to do when maria's playing as well as she is. when every ball is being struck hard and close to the lines, it's hard to throw in a slice or get on the offensive. additionally, maria serves more effectively and if she plays consistent, she outhits clijsters for sure.
short, but to the point!

slydevil6142
Apr 2nd, 2005, 12:01 AM
Are we kididng ourselves here.... Marias game is almost exactly like davenport. The fact that Maria lost a set to Justine is not a good sign for the final. Kim is a counterpuncher btu she also uses alot of variety along with her speed. Maria is going to have to be willing to go to net and hit alot of balls b/c Kim is going to make her work and work hard. I think this is going to be a good match but Kim is going to win this ... marias plan is going to beat Kim from the baseline and unfortuntly thats not going to get the job done. Kim wins 7-5, 6-3

Sir Stefwhit
Apr 2nd, 2005, 12:14 AM
LMAO @ this thread... :lol:

Kim has done a good job of letting her racquet do all the talkin', I'll just keep on letting her demonstrate- time to school the Russian!

(if there's a god up above... :angel: )

I like all the excitement that's been builiding up, it should be fun.

xan
Apr 2nd, 2005, 01:20 AM
It's clearly a match that can go either way.

The two have not met recently so there is nothing to build an effective comparison on. Kim blew away Mauresmo, but Amelie does not play at all like Maria and has a different mental make-up.

If either player is able to dominate early and shut the other out, that will do it. However if Maria stays level with Kim over the long haul, I feel that her fighting qualities could well give her the advantage over three sets.

From her interviews, Kim has obviously been studying Maria's game, so Maria needs to be ready, and to be able to hang in some punishing rallies and await her time to strike.

T-T
Apr 2nd, 2005, 01:34 AM
The more you attack Kim, the better she gets. She feeds on you. If Maria makes the error of being impatient and too aggressive, she's a goner.

matthieu_tennis
Apr 2nd, 2005, 01:44 AM
the key for clijster
-Try to keep ues low
-be agressive of both side
-alwalys get the extra ball
-keep maria low with slice on her backhand because
the defense of maria backhand is poor
Sharapova key
-Hit flat on the back hand of kim kim miss a lot of slice when the ball is flat
-Always keeping clijster on the back foot because she hit the ball with top spin and that help sharapova to attack
-RETURN OF SERVE :P
-High percentage of first ball
-she must finish the point when she has the chance to close out
Clijsters will win i think in three hot set

Brooks.
Apr 2nd, 2005, 01:54 AM
if kim isnt tired than its her match to lose...............her game matches up perfectly against sharapova.........and whoever said that maria's serve wont get broken is wrong........the reason it was dominant agaisnt venus is b/c venus missed so many returns.........kim doesnt miss returns of serve often and she has been moving better than anyone i have seen all year so far..........like i said if kim is not tired she should win this thing in straights!

rommel99
Apr 2nd, 2005, 02:12 AM
Are we kididng ourselves here.... Marias game is almost exactly like davenport. The fact that Maria lost a set to Justine is not a good sign for the final. Kim is a counterpuncher btu she also uses alot of variety along with her speed. Maria is going to have to be willing to go to net and hit alot of balls b/c Kim is going to make her work and work hard. I think this is going to be a good match but Kim is going to win this ... marias plan is going to beat Kim from the baseline and unfortuntly thats not going to get the job done. Kim wins 7-5, 6-3

exactly.. i still think its 60-40 in favor of kim..

tennisjunky
Apr 2nd, 2005, 03:29 AM
people are forgetting the last time they played on a hardcourt maria won a set 6-1 and pushed kim to three sets. this was when maria wasn't even half the player she is now and kim was near the top of her game. this match can go eitherway, i know that. maria has a huge edge coming in. kim will have to raise it one more notch or it will be a quick match. kim has prooved me wrong lately. i would be worried except maria has been prooving me right. whatever happens both players have a lot to be proud of, so congratulations to them both.

Monirena Wiles
Apr 2nd, 2005, 04:41 AM
After reading all the post in this thread I will be watching the match and looking at it in ways I would not have thought of. This is an informative thread for people who just like tennis but do not know a lot about different styles and the technical parts to players games. I can't give good rep points to the people that were copied into this thread lol. Tomorrow I will see who really knows what they are talking about.

alexusjonesfan
Apr 2nd, 2005, 04:42 AM
wow you couldn't just post in one othe other threads?

Hawk
Apr 2nd, 2005, 05:58 AM
people are forgetting the last time they played on a hardcourt maria won a set 6-1 and pushed kim to three sets. this was when maria wasn't even half the player she is now and kim was near the top of her game. this match can go eitherway, i know that. maria has a huge edge coming in. kim will have to raise it one more notch or it will be a quick match. kim has prooved me wrong lately. i would be worried except maria has been prooving me right. whatever happens both players have a lot to be proud of, so congratulations to them both.

Actually the last time they played on a hardcourt was in Luxembourg..after that match in LA you're refering to and Kim won in Lux 6-0, 6-3.

Personally I agree that Maria's game is much like Davenport and Kim matches up really well with that type of game. Kim has the potential to frustrate the hell outta Maria.

That being said I haven't a clue who is gonna win :p It's been too long since they've played each other.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Apr 2nd, 2005, 06:21 AM
Hmmmmmm...If you think about it Kim could lose. Because Sharapova is a mix of Davenport and Venus. And we know how Kim fares against Venus. I hope this is a classic 3 setter. No 6-1 6-2 sh*t.

-Ph51-
Apr 2nd, 2005, 07:35 AM
people are forgetting the last time they played on a hardcourt maria won a set 6-1 and pushed kim to three sets. this was when maria wasn't even half the player she is now and kim was near the top of her game. this match can go eitherway, i know that. maria has a huge edge coming in. kim will have to raise it one more notch or it will be a quick match. kim has prooved me wrong lately. i would be worried except maria has been prooving me right. whatever happens both players have a lot to be proud of, so congratulations to them both.
Wrong...Last time was Luxemburg 03 and Kim won 6-0 6-3 ;)

Prizeidiot
Apr 2nd, 2005, 07:39 AM
It's tough to tell.

Maria does have shades of Venus in her game, which Kim seems to struggle with.

But on the other hand, Sharapova's strength is not in playing solid, percentage tennis. Her strength is in going toe to toe and outgunning the other player. Kim has a knack of making people play a lot of shots. If she keeps making deep, solid returns, running down every ball as she always has, she's going to make Maria make a lot of errors.

Kim being tired, or maybe soft after facing no real opposition lately may be a problem though. Similarly Maria may also be tired, and hasn't faced anyone who has forced her to hit a lot of balls.

So, after all that analysis, my judgement is that I HAVE NO CLUE. I hope Kim wins though

gentenaire
Apr 2nd, 2005, 07:45 AM
Kim used to have a lot of problems with Davenport's game. I remember a couple of heavy losses earlier on, before Kim learned how to frustrate Davenport. Kim hasn't played Maria enough to learn how to deal with her game. And like others have said, Maria's a lot faster than Davenport. Kim can make Davenport run, I'm not sure she'll manage to make Maria run. I'm glad that Kim's not underestimating Maria though, that she realises she can't let her race to a big lead. Kim will have to get a lot of 1st serves in.

tennisjunky
Apr 2nd, 2005, 04:27 PM
Actually the last time they played on a hardcourt was in Luxembourg..after that match in LA you're refering to and Kim won in Lux 6-0, 6-3.

Personally I agree that Maria's game is much like Davenport and Kim matches up really well with that type of game. Kim has the potential to frustrate the hell outta Maria.

That being said I haven't a clue who is gonna win :p It's been too long since they've played each other.
last time they played on an OUTDOOR HARD COURT. luxembourg was an indoor event. i predict their new h2h 1-2 ;)

Shonami Slam
Apr 2nd, 2005, 04:31 PM
very nice summary thread - thank you!
intresting thing said here.

tennisjunky
Apr 2nd, 2005, 05:43 PM
btw, the wind changes everything. this tips the balance to kim, she gets all the luck in the world!

Orion
Apr 2nd, 2005, 06:02 PM
Clijsters can shift from defensive to offensive better than any player, and Sharapova has trouble beating a player who plays like that. I'd expect a three setter regardless, with odds at 55-45 to Clijsters. Sharapova likes to dominate rallies, and Clijsters likes not dominating rallies. Whichever can hold serve better will win. It's not going to be a question of who breaks, but who holds.

Sir Stefwhit
Apr 2nd, 2005, 08:42 PM
<bump>

Glad to be able to say... "I told you so"...hehehe

Mercury Rising
Apr 3rd, 2005, 04:12 PM
btw, the wind changes everything. this tips the balance to kim, she gets all the luck in the world!
haha :rolleyes: :cool: