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View Full Version : Maria Sharapova=Monica Seles on speed


faboozadoo15
Mar 31st, 2005, 06:52 PM
thoughts?
i just think everything monica ever did well is just punctuated by this kid. she plays tennis like a street fighter. what a punk!

thelittlestelf
Mar 31st, 2005, 06:54 PM
She's a little faster than Monica, IMO, but like Monica uses her determination to get to a lot of balls.

tennislover
Mar 31st, 2005, 06:54 PM
thoughts?
i just think everything monica ever did well is just punctuated by this kid. she plays tennis like a street fighter. what a punk!
yes as you know, she reminds me of monica as well....

but masha is even potentially better than monica IMHO

Havok
Mar 31st, 2005, 06:59 PM
Seles has the much better groundstrokes, and used her shots better than Sharapova is know (ie hitting with angles). I also think that Seles has the better return of serve. Though I do somewhat agree with your statement.

Julia1968
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:02 PM
I think their similarites start and stop during rallies and their determination. The tighter the match becomes, they both "hit out" during rallies...increasingly harder.

Sharapova reminded me a lot of Seles today. She fights well.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

goldenlox
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:04 PM
I don't remember Monica when she was young.
But I read she won 8 of 10 majors, didn't play one, and made one final.
Maria is nowhere near those results.

matija-seles
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:06 PM
Don't make me repeat myself. DON'T INSULT MONICA.

creep
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:07 PM
thoughts?
i just think everything monica ever did well is just punctuated by this kid. she plays tennis like a street fighter. what a punk!

I prefer Monica any day than Maria. But I do agree with you on the similarities between both ladies. I was thinking this whenever I watched Maria at last years Wimbledon.Her intensity reminded me so much of Monica Seles.

abayen
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:08 PM
matija i am a huge seles fan as well. but i have to give it to sharapova. she's the most similar to seles than anyone else i have seen so far.

faboozadoo15
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:09 PM
Seles has the much better groundstrokes, and used her shots better than Sharapova is know (ie hitting with angles). I also think that Seles has the better return of serve. Though I do somewhat agree with your statement.
oh definitely. i think sharapova doesn't get enough penetration on her forehand A LOT of the time, she takes a huge cut at the ball and hits to the open court, but after the bounce, it slows down. monica's shots MOVED through the court, and maria needs to develop more angles.

they both have amazing footwork and determination, that's really the paradigm of the comparison here. (oh... and the volume :tape: )

they both have good returns and really remind me of eachother in their stances and what they do between points.

SelesFan70
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:09 PM
Maria changes the direction of the ball very well, but Monica's angle are just :bowdown: It also seems Maria has a little bit of trouble serving out matches, which Monica never did. If Maria wins the French, then I'll begin to really give her some credence as far as Monica goes.

faboozadoo15
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:11 PM
Don't make me repeat myself. DON'T INSULT MONICA.
:confused: i wouldn't dream of it... :confused:

MisterQ
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:33 PM
I agree that there are similarities.

No one takes the ball as early as Monica, though. :worship:

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:36 PM
Their speed is great... but Maria's grunts are louder! :armed:

faboozadoo15
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:40 PM
I agree that there are similarities.

No one takes the ball as early as Monica, though. :worship:
of course ;)

we can sit around waiting for a monica clone, but we'll only have pretenders. monica is such an original and an unduplicatable work of art.

that said, this chick is fun to watch!

their voices sound the same too, my GOD, they both have that little flat accent and answer many of their questions with the reflexive "oh definitely."

matija-seles
Mar 31st, 2005, 07:42 PM
of course ;)

we can sit around waiting for a monica clone, but we'll only have pretenders. monica is such an original and an unduplicatable work of art.

that said, this chick is fun to watch!

their voices sound the same too, my GOD, they both have that little flat accent and answer many of their questions with the reflexive "oh definitely."

Oh, definitely ! :lol:

faboozadoo15
Apr 1st, 2005, 01:26 AM
Oh, definitely ! :lol:
haha you know it's true!
any question where monica agrees, she says "oh definitely." she's so polite and gets right to the point.

R&J
Apr 1st, 2005, 01:51 AM
Don't make me repeat myself. DON'T INSULT MONICA.
:lol:

But I do think Monica inspired a lot of youngsters into tennis. What she did in the early 90's was very impressive to say the least. She was unique, not like anyone before her. She hit powerful shots from both sides in to the corners. No one (imo) used the court angle wise as much as Monica did back then. And while dictating play and moving everyone she played side to side, until they could not keep up with her anymore; she would belt these loud grunts as she pounded shot after shot. I think a lot of young girls (and guys) got interested in tennis because of her. Now a days everyone (most everyone) has powerful shots from both sides. As Mary Carillo would say, "BIG BABE TENNIS!" ;)

Grice
Apr 1st, 2005, 01:54 AM
:lol:

But I do think Monica inspired a lot of youngsters into tennis. What she did in the early 90's was very impressive to say the least. She was unique, not like anyone before her. She hit powerful shots from both sides in to the corners. No one (imo) used the court angle wise as much as Monica did back then. And while dictating play and moving everyone she played side to side, until they could not keep up with her anymore; she would belt these loud grunts as she pounded shot after shot. I think a lot of young girls (and guys) got interested in tennis because of her. Now a days everyone (most everyone) has powerful shots from both sides. As Mary Carillo would say, "BIG BABE TENNIS!" ;)

ditto :D

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 1st, 2005, 01:55 AM
Don't make me repeat myself. DON'T INSULT MONICA.

I agree. Maria is nothing like monica. I swear can't you fanatics be happy that maria is maria? You have to try to compare her to people whose game she does not have. she doesnt play like monica, steffi or nav.:rolleyes:

faboozadoo15
Apr 1st, 2005, 02:12 AM
I agree. Maria is nothing like monica. I swear can't you fanatics be happy that maria is maria? You have to try to compare her to people whose game she does not have. she doesnt play like monica, steffi or nav.:rolleyes:
i never said she did play like them.

Fingon
Apr 1st, 2005, 02:16 AM
those who say Maria is similiar to Monica should drink less.

Yes, there are some point in common.

The intensity
going for it at every ball
they both like to hit the lines and as hard as they can, every shot.
the grunt

And that's it
to start with Monica has a double-handed forehand
Maria's serve is a huge weapon, Monica's serve never was, it became better later in her career but never was like Maria's, especially in Monica's best years (the ones for which they are comparing her to Maria).
Monica had a better return of serve, Maria's is very good but not, at least yet at Monica's level.
Monica had a better footwork (one of the best ever).
Maria is more aggressive.
last but not least, Monica excelled on clay and wasn't that good on grass. Maria's best surface is grass and she isn't that good on clay.

Monica herself said in 2002 that Maria's game is like Davenport's. In fact, Maria is like Davenport with a lot more intensity and better movement, and unlike Davenport, when things don't go right she will try even harder.

for those who need a clue, they are available cheap.

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 1st, 2005, 02:22 AM
those who say Maria is similiar to Monica should drink less.

Yes, there are some point in common.

The intensity
going for it at every ball
they both like to hit the lines and as hard as they can, every shot.
the grunt

And that's it
to start with Monica has a double-handed forehand
Maria's serve is a huge weapon, Monica's serve never was, it became better later in her career but never was like Maria's, especially in Monica's best years (the ones for which they are comparing her to Maria).
Monica had a better return of serve, Maria's is very good but not, at least yet at Monica's level.
Monica had a better footwork (one of the best ever).
Maria is more aggressive.
last but not least, Monica excelled on clay and wasn't that good on grass. Maria's best surface is grass and she isn't that good on clay.

Monica herself said in 2002 that Maria's game is like Davenport's. In fact, Maria is like Davenport with a lot more intensity and better movement, and unlike Davenport, when things don't go right she will try even harder.

for those who need a clue, they are available cheap.

Thank you. And for those similarities you mentioned you can include Venus and Serena who were also inspired by Monica to go for the lines no matter what and grunt and never say die.

hell I can probably name a few other players who also adopt the monica mentality.

harloo
Apr 1st, 2005, 02:26 AM
Dear God,

When will it end?

Sincerely,

harloo

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 1st, 2005, 02:34 AM
Dear God,

When will it end?

Sincerely,

harloo

Dear Harloo,

It will never end. Maria could end up being run over tomorrow by Serena in a runaway golf cart and Maria's fan(atics) would say she was an all time great like Graf who left the game because she was too good to play with other women and had to play against truly fierce angel competition.

Sincerely,

Cyb

LDVTennis
Apr 1st, 2005, 03:00 AM
:lol:

But I do think Monica inspired a lot of youngsters into tennis. What she did in the early 90's was very impressive to say the least. She was unique, not like anyone before her. She hit powerful shots from both sides in to the corners. No one (imo) used the court angle wise as much as Monica did back then. And while dictating play and moving everyone she played side to side, until they could not keep up with her anymore; she would belt these loud grunts as she pounded shot after shot. I think a lot of young girls (and guys) got interested in tennis because of her. Now a days everyone (most everyone) has powerful shots from both sides. As Mary Carillo would say, "BIG BABE TENNIS!" ;)

I know that this is what some so-called experts have always said about Seles' game, but even your own video history, the one on your website, disputes the accuracy of this description.

In a typical rally, Seles looped more balls back than she hit flat shots for pure winners. When she got out of position, she even resorted to moonballing her opponent.

During her best years, in fact, Seles' game was very similar to that of Sanchez-Vicario, the only difference being that Sanchez did not have the power off her backhand side that Seles did.

However unique Seles was, I think today's players respect her more than they have tried to emulate her. I know of no player in the top 10 that literally plays like her, with two hands on both sides. I know of no player in the top 10 who relies more on anticipation/court awareness than speed or quickness to cover the court. And, I know of no player in the top 10 who doesn't have the capability to hit an offensive shot from a defensive position.

What I do know is that more than one player in the top 10 could use a forehand like Graf's. Not having one has made some players quite vulnerable to a newer breed of players with good to very good forehands. What I also know is that at least three players with top 10 credentials (e.g., Clijsters) or top 10 potential (e.g., Mirza) have great forehands in part because they grew up idolizing and emulating Graf. So, it may just turn out that the girls who grew up watching Graf and built their games around a forehand may acutally rule the day very soon.

That includes Maria by the way. Though she may not have grown up idolizing Graf or anybody else for that matter, she's done a lot of work over the last year to improve her forehand and that work is beginning to pay dividends. With her big serve and an improved forehand, she'll be winning points "like" Graf did in no time.

Grice
Apr 1st, 2005, 03:11 AM
In a typical rally, Seles looped more balls back than she hit flat shots for pure winners. When she got out of position, she even resorted to moonballing her opponent.

I seriously doubt what you just said, i've watched many of Monica's matches and she doesn't loop more balls back than she hit flat shots... she hits almost every ball with freaking intensity

and the reason why sometimes she loops balls back is because her double-handed grips do not allow her to reach as far as other players, so she ends up scooping up the balls pretty out of her reach. Other than that, when balls come in Monica's zone, she punishes the ball like hell.

And juz to add, Sanchez Vicario did NOT in anyway hit as marvelous angles as Monica..


However unique Seles was, I think today's players respect her more than they have tried to emulate her. I know of no player in the top 10 that literally plays like her, with two hands on both sides. I know of no player in the top 10 who relies more on anticipation/court awareness than speed or quickness to cover the court. And, I know of no player in the top 10 who doesn't have the capability to hit an offensive shot from a defensive position.


as i recall, in the book "Venus & Serena, My Seven Years as Hitting Coach for the Williams Sisters" by Dave Rineberg, it was mentioned the williams sisters watched and studied Monica's videos and i believe that's where they learnt to take the ball on the rise and also to step well within the baseline to return serve..

ceiling_fan
Apr 1st, 2005, 05:10 AM
on speed or with speed?

Yonexforever
Apr 1st, 2005, 05:34 AM
I see where you may be headed with that to a point.
I think like as a few posters already said, I would take Monica anyday.
She just competed without all the BS from her Pops in the stands or the fists pumps after unforced errors or double faults!
Monica played the B A L L like nobodies business no matter WHO was on the other side.
She moved to the next point in a bring it on kinda way

faboozadoo15
Apr 1st, 2005, 05:44 AM
on speed or with speed?
both ;)
but seriously, monica was fast in the early 90's. people forget that. this was a woman who outrallied graf, the alleged paradigm of athleticism.

faboozadoo15
Apr 1st, 2005, 05:47 AM
those who say Maria is similiar to Monica should drink less.

Yes, there are some point in common.

The intensity
going for it at every ball
they both like to hit the lines and as hard as they can, every shot.
the grunt
:haha: don't call me an alcoholic!!!

that's as far as my comparison went as well. i never said their games are very similar. it may not be clear from my first post, but read the others and you'll see that i agree with you.

hingis-seles
Apr 1st, 2005, 07:00 AM
It's funny you mention it, because Maria does remind me of Monica in the sense that she is also very intense (and who can forget the grunts? :tape: ) but a player who reminds me of Monica more than Maria is Karolina Sprem, at least what I saw in the Wimbledon match against Venus.

That being said, Monica is Monica. Nobody will ever be that good. :worship:

creep
Apr 1st, 2005, 07:04 AM
Dear God,

When will it end?

Sincerely,

harloo

C'mon! You would swear they were identical twins who were seperated at birth.

Kart
Apr 2nd, 2005, 08:53 PM
She actually reminds me more of Lindsay in her game - clean, heavy shots but her movement is still vulnerable.

R&J
Apr 2nd, 2005, 09:05 PM
I know that this is what some so-called experts have always said about Seles' game, but even your own video history, the one on your website, disputes the accuracy of this description.

In a typical rally, Seles looped more balls back than she hit flat shots for pure winners. When she got out of position, she even resorted to moonballing her opponent.



If Monica was pulled way outside of the court, she would either go for an all out winner, or she would loop the shot up so that she could get back in the court. She did that during her first year as a pro in 89, and she did that some in 90. But once she switched to Yonex her strokes shortned up and her backswing got shorter and shorter - more compact. Monica rarely looped her shots from 91 and on.

Kart
Apr 2nd, 2005, 10:45 PM
I know that this is what some so-called experts have always said about Seles' game, but even your own video history, the one on your website, disputes the accuracy of this description.

In a typical rally, Seles looped more balls back than she hit flat shots for pure winners. When she got out of position, she even resorted to moonballing her opponent.

During her best years, in fact, Seles' game was very similar to that of Sanchez-Vicario, the only difference being that Sanchez did not have the power off her backhand side that Seles did.

However unique Seles was, I think today's players respect her more than they have tried to emulate her. I know of no player in the top 10 that literally plays like her, with two hands on both sides. I know of no player in the top 10 who relies more on anticipation/court awareness than speed or quickness to cover the court. And, I know of no player in the top 10 who doesn't have the capability to hit an offensive shot from a defensive position.


You don't appear to know much about Monica either.

Perhaps you should spend some more time listening to the 'so-called' experts, maybe you'll learn something.

raquel
Apr 3rd, 2005, 03:58 PM
During her best years, in fact, Seles' game was very similar to that of Sanchez-Vicario, the only difference being that Sanchez did not have the power off her backhand side that Seles did.


I disagree with that. I know the video clips on R&J's site from Monica's very early career perhaps showed her as being less aggressive than she would be go on to be but she was very different to Arantxa when she was number 1 and winning Slams in 1991-1993. Monica's outlook and style was a lot more aggressive than Arantxa. Arantxa had a more defensive style and although in my mind she doesn't get enough recognition for being a good all court player who wasn't just a brick wall out there and could always mix it up, she definitely had a brick wall attitude out there a lot of the time. The opponents knew what ASV would do and they knew they would have to beat her as it wasn't going to be given away easily. Seles had a far more aggressive outlook, hitting the ball harder and flatter and going for lines.

andrewbroad
Apr 8th, 2005, 01:02 AM
I appreciate the comparison between my two all-time favourites! :D

Just the other day I was watching Maria beat Lindsay Davenport at Wimbledon 2004, and was amazed at some of the short-angled crosscourt backhand winners she came up with. I've only ever seen one other player hit angles like that, and that's Monica.

One difference is that Monica takes the ball so early, confusing her opponents because it comes back so quickly. Whereas Maria has a lovely delay on her shots, waiting for the opponent to commit herself, then putting the ball in the other direction. Both these approaches to hitting the ball are joyous to watch, and both have the effect of keeping their opponents constantly off-balance so that they can dictate the rallies.

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/seles/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/seles/)
http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/ (http://www.geocities.com/andrewbroad/tennis/shara/)

lloyders76
Apr 8th, 2005, 01:11 AM
hilarious, monica and aranxta play the same game, u are a card

mishar
Apr 8th, 2005, 03:07 AM
Mysterious why Graf fans are so obsessed with denigrating Monica.

Many youngsters idolized Graf -- Clijsters & Justine the most prominent, many idolized Monica -- Hingis, Venus, Serena, Anna K. But neither Kim nor Justine nor Sania Mirza hits their forehand in the distinctive way Graf did, just as no one hits the ball with Monica's distinct style. They both had inimitable styles, out of the ordinary. I would hardly say Kim or Justine specialize in their forehand the way Graf did -- they both have good forehands, but stronger backhands.

Fingon makes some good points. Maria has a better serve and is a better mover. Monica hit uncanny angles, had a unique feeling for the geometry of the court. They share the ability to hit out at the big moments. Time will tell (as Monica liked to say) if Maria can keep it up to the extent Monica did.

uNIVERSEmAN
Apr 8th, 2005, 03:17 AM
i hate the two handed forehand, it's something a junior would do.