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DA FOREHAND
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:42 AM
Which of the current female players is most likely to make the trip to the net a major part of thier game.

Of the top players I think Amelie, and Venus, would be the most sucessfull. Are there any players bold enough to make the transition? To my mind Amelie has he best volleys on tour right now.

Dokicfan17
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:45 AM
petrova

DA FOREHAND
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:49 AM
She's got great hands too but is she bold enough to make that change

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:55 AM
Vaidosva is a serve-net player...

Stamp Paid
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:56 AM
You should look to the future in Miss Michaella Kraijeck(sp). Definitely unafraid to come to net.

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:57 AM
You should look to the future in Miss Michaella Kraijeck(sp). Definitely unafraid to come to net.

:worship:

Lemonskin.
Mar 27th, 2005, 07:02 AM
Molik's been known to work the net pretty successfully :D

Fingon
Mar 27th, 2005, 07:53 AM
Petrova going to the net? give me a break, she is way too slow for that.

Amelie has good hands, but she doesn't feel comfortable, she won't do it against a top player.

Venus? :tape:

Alicia and Justine can do it. Kim could but she doesn't seem to like it.

The only time I saw Vaidisova she went to the net to shake hands, I won't judge her for one match though.

now, if it's about just coming to the net to finish off the point (set by a groundstroke), instead of real volleys, then many more can do it, including Venus, Serena, Maria, Lindsay. They all have great groundstrokes and anybody can put away a short ball.

shap_half
Mar 27th, 2005, 08:11 AM
Justine definitely. She spends alot of time up at net to finish off points. In the Olympic finals she was at net alot. She also went to net alot throughout the 2004 IW. She's definitely in my mind the best net player currently.

Prizeidiot
Mar 27th, 2005, 08:37 AM
Alicia for sure. She used to be a serve volley type

ceiling_fan
Mar 27th, 2005, 08:47 AM
venus

tennisIlove09
Mar 27th, 2005, 08:56 AM
Venus-Alicia-Petrova-JHH-Mauresmo

wta whore 79
Mar 27th, 2005, 08:57 AM
Mary Pierce! I'd say she goes to net more frequently than any other player on the tour! She's awesome!!

moby
Mar 27th, 2005, 10:27 AM
Winning at the net is not the same as having good volleys. A good approach shot is what is most essential to the net-charging style of play.

Amelie may have some of the best volleys on the women's tour, but her approach shots sometimes makes me :tape:. She really needs to flatten out her stroke and hit it deeper if she wants to come to the net more.

Venus has good approach shots, and rarely makes mistakes on easy volleys, but lacks both the desire to develop a good net game as well as the flair to tackle the most difficult volleys. Sometimes, I think Venus is bluffing (i.e. hopes to draw a weak pass or force her opponents to go for too much) when she goes to the net, which worked well when she still had the intimidation factor going for her.

Right now, I would say Ju and Alicia has the best chance because they are not afraid to take up the net position, pick the right spots to attack the net, and have confident volleys.

grmbl
Mar 27th, 2005, 10:55 AM
Krajicek for sure.

Lemonskin.
Mar 27th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Elena D can be devaqstating at the net... when she wants to :scared:

Paldias
Mar 27th, 2005, 02:14 PM
Chanda...even though she's not at the top now. When she's trying to be agressive she always goes to net e.g. vs. Venus US Open '04

Kart
Mar 27th, 2005, 02:20 PM
Venus, Amelie, Justine ... all have good skills at the net and the games to get them there.

None of them have the guts though it seems.

Kart
Mar 27th, 2005, 02:21 PM
Molik seems to have more of a stubborn fearlessness about her so maybe she could - I suspect she'd have to if she wants to beat the best.

Volcana
Mar 27th, 2005, 02:46 PM
I think you have to look at who goes to net vs big hitters. Last year, I watched Bovina go to net vs Davenport. If you're willing to run up there with Davenport on the other baseline, you're definitely committed.

Davenport, OTOH, displayed a fine sense of how to approach the net vs Clijsters, but as far as Clijsters plays behind the baseline, she virtually invites that strategy.

I think Venus has the skills, but not yet the understanding of what makes a good approach shot. (In fairness, very few of the women seem to understand that.) If you go to net and find yourself having to play a backhand overhead, that usually wasn't a good approach shot. A good approach shot limits the opponent's options a bit more than that.

Henin-Hardenne will always be limited in the amount of net she can cover.

Hmmmm ....

I kinda fall back on Bovina. The times I've seen her, she's further along in the curve of learning net play than other players her age. And she certainly goes to net boldly.

vogus
Mar 27th, 2005, 04:13 PM
Petrova going to the net? give me a break, she is way too slow for that.
.


Dunno which matches you have been watching her play, but in general Nadya is one of the best movers of girls of her size on the tour. Dementieva is faster than she is, so is Venus (with worse footwork) but i can't think of anyone else.

The general rule of Big Babe Tennis is, why go to the net and have to hit a volley when you can just blast a clean winner from the baseline. Just ask Serena, Masha, Davenport or Justine.

bandabou
Mar 27th, 2005, 04:21 PM
Serena, it seems when she's playing Amelie, plays very well at the net....I liked her netplay during the YEC.....but I don't know if she's really really comfortable at the net.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:06 PM
Good responses, some of the players listed might need to be brave enough to move forward more often to make it to the next level.

I think Amelie and Venus may need to take those steps forward to accomplish thier career goals.

-Kieron-
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:08 PM
Venus, Amelie and JHH in my opinion

JenFan75
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:49 PM
I think Alicia's the best net player right now, and she's up there frequently.

pigam
Mar 27th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Justine had 20+ net approaches in her matchj today and a win ratio of 74%.
You can see her working on it constantly, so I think she has the ambition.
whether she'll use it "important" matches remains to be seen... :shrug:

Fingon
Mar 27th, 2005, 07:08 PM
Dunno which matches you have been watching her play, but in general Nadya is one of the best movers of girls of her size on the tour. Dementieva is faster than she is, so is Venus (with worse footwork) but i can't think of anyone else.

The general rule of Big Babe Tennis is, why go to the net and have to hit a volley when you can just blast a clean winner from the baseline. Just ask Serena, Masha, Davenport or Justine.

I think you must be in drugs, Petrova good mover? whatever, she is is one of the worst movers out there, and I've seen her plently of times, including a few times in person.

What general rule is it? that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Nadia can't go to the net because she takes way too long for that, and you can't always hit a clear winner from the baseline, this is 2005, not 2002, players are used to power and it's more difficult to hit clean winners, that's why finishing off points at the net becomes more important.

And you are comparing 4 completely different players (except Masha and Davenport), Serena never was keen of going to the net, Masha is trying but she has a lot to learn, Davenport is too slow and Justine, it depends on the day, she needs to feel confident.

So I don't know what you are talking about really.

JenFan75
Mar 27th, 2005, 07:29 PM
Dunno which matches you have been watching her play, but in general Nadya is one of the best movers of girls of her size on the tour. Dementieva is faster than she is, so is Venus (with worse footwork) but i can't think of anyone else.

The general rule of Big Babe Tennis is, why go to the net and have to hit a volley when you can just blast a clean winner from the baseline. Just ask Serena, Masha, Davenport or Justine.


o_o

Have you ever seen nadia play?

skanky~skanketta
Mar 27th, 2005, 07:39 PM
i think venus has some really good volleys, and she has fabulous reach too. and since the tour has cought up with her power groundstroke wise, she s could try to come in more often. i dont remember how her approaches are but, we know she can.

justine, well, we all know she's desperate to win wimbledon and she was working hard with her net game last year before falling sick.

elena dementieva, at the USO last year, she went to the net some 33 times and lost only like 3 points there. however, she didnt go to the net as much at the AO this year. but she has some good net skills.

SJW
Mar 27th, 2005, 07:46 PM
Serena never was keen of going to the net

actually, if you watched Serena you'd see that she's not afraid to come to the net. in fact, that's the main difference of Serena 02/03 to when she came back in 04.

best volleyer in the top 10 has to be Alicia Molik. she should go to the net even more actually and become a serve-volleyer. she has a beautiful net game.

manu32
Mar 27th, 2005, 07:50 PM
henin

deja_entendu
Mar 27th, 2005, 07:58 PM
Justine obviously. Amelie has wack approach shots, Venus volleys themselves are :tape:, Lindsay is too slow, Sharapova and Clijsters and Serena are uncomfortable there, Nastya and Lena D are purely basline babes...

VRee_Willario
Mar 27th, 2005, 08:17 PM
It's great to see Serena serve and volleying, she did it particularly well at Wimby SF and YEC SF.
I like her backhand volley a lot, her net game has become a wepon, not just finishing off points.
I'd like to see her come to the net a lot.

vogus
Mar 27th, 2005, 08:37 PM
I think you must be in drugs, Petrova good mover? whatever, she is is one of the worst movers out there, and I've seen her plently of times, including a few times in person.

What general rule is it? that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Nadia can't go to the net because she takes way too long for that, and you can't always hit a clear winner from the baseline, this is 2005, not 2002, players are used to power and it's more difficult to hit clean winners, that's why finishing off points at the net becomes more important.

And you are comparing 4 completely different players (except Masha and Davenport), Serena never was keen of going to the net, Masha is trying but she has a lot to learn, Davenport is too slow and Justine, it depends on the day, she needs to feel confident.

So I don't know what you are talking about really.


Watch a video of the match at RG '03 where Nadya beat Capriati.

Then watch a video of the match at AI '04 where Nadya beat Serena.

Then tell me what you think of Nadya's movement. If you still think she is slow after watching those matches, then we can just call it a difference of opinion and leave it at that.

As for comparing 4 completely different players, that's sort of the idea. They are all different, but the thing that Serena, Masha, Davey, and Justine have in common is that their games are built around hitting a lot of devastating winners from the baseline and they have little need to come to the net, because by the time they get there, they have already won the point.

Kart
Mar 27th, 2005, 08:43 PM
Fingon we all know you are a closet Nadia fan, stop denying it :p.

baleineau
Mar 27th, 2005, 09:04 PM
molik is not agile enough to carry it off, though, even if she has the intention. her movement is awful (very bulky and slow). net play requires courage, agility, good hands, as well as good instinct for choosing the moment. it also helps if you can hit strong/challenging approach shots to make it a bit easier. molik's approaches might be decent, and she has decent hands, but her agility is in question.

Fingon
Mar 27th, 2005, 09:15 PM
Watch a video of the match at RG '03 where Nadya beat Capriati.

Then watch a video of the match at AI '04 where Nadya beat Serena.

Then tell me what you think of Nadya's movement. If you still think she is slow after watching those matches, then we can just call it a difference of opinion and leave it at that.

As for comparing 4 completely different players, that's sort of the idea. They are all different, but the thing that Serena, Masha, Davey, and Justine have in common is that their games are built around hitting a lot of devastating winners from the baseline and they have little need to come to the net, because by the time they get there, they have already won the point.

both Amelia Island and RG are on clay, on clay speed is not that important since you have a lot more time to get to the ball, that's why some players like Mary have always done well there.

I've seen plenty of Nadia's matches, one of the most interesting being Rosmalen in 2003 against Justine, Nadia was coming to the net and winning point, mostly because Justine couldn't be bothered, later Justine started to play a little more seriously and Nadia was passed every single time.

And you can't compare 4 different players, most players today hit hard from the baseline, so it would apply to nearly everyone.

And have you ever wondered why Lindsay has trouble against good retrievers like Kim, Justine or Serena?, because she doesn't like the ball coming back, most players are just not able anymore to blast winner after winner, they needs to set up the point, find the angles, power alone won't win you points now.

Pure and simple, Nadia is not in that league, she never was, and she never will, she is simply not that good, I would think that with her results this point would have come across but apparently it's very difficult to defeat myths.

sartrista7
Mar 27th, 2005, 09:16 PM
Petrova going to the net? give me a break, she is way too slow for that.

You call Petrova too slow to be a good netplayer, then you turn around and suggest Molik? Fingon, please.

I'm not wholly convinced by all the junior suggestions: the majority of great juniors I've read about in the past 5-7 years have had people enthusing over how much they like to finish points off at net (Bovina, Tulyaganova, Sharapova, Golovin, now Vaidisova and Krajicek)... but it ceases to be a consistent strategy the minute they hit the senior tour. I suspect Vaidisova and Krajicek will be no different.

Of the current top players, Dementieva's the one I've seen boldly take on very difficult volleys and pursue a net strategy consistently throughout a match most often. However, she certainly doesn't do it at every tournament - sometimes she seems totally allergic to the net - and she's so streaky that when her game is off, her net play is painful to watch.

Fingon
Mar 27th, 2005, 09:39 PM
You call Petrova too slow to be a good netplayer, then you turn around and suggest Molik? Fingon, please.


please what?, first Molik can hit a kick serve that is in the manual of serve and volley tennis, second, Molik can be slow but moves well, moving well is not the same as moving quick, third, Molik has a very deep slice backhand, again, a manual's shot for approach shot, Nadia doesn't.

Nadia's chance to go to the net is through her serve, but more out of the serve's speed than the type of serve, not being a kick serve that would force the opponent to return a high ball, it will only put the opponent in a difficult position, but the ball would have fast and hence, Nadia won't get there in time (I've seen that quite a few times). Alicia on the other hand come serve in a way that would give her time despite her slowness, and also can come behind an approach shot, that Nadia can't.

I'm not wholly convinced by all the junior suggestions: the majority of great juniors I've read about in the past 5-7 years have had people enthusing over how much they like to finish points off at net (Bovina, Tulyaganova, Sharapova, Golovin, now Vaidisova and Krajicek)... but it ceases to be a consistent strategy the minute they hit the senior tour. I suspect Vaidisova and Krajicek will be no different.


Because most of the comments are not based on actually watching those players, but assuming that because they have a good serve they can good at the net.

If you look at true serve and volleyers (eg Rafter, Edberg, McEnroe, Navratilova, Novotna, Becker) they didn't have a huge serve, rather a serve tailored for serve and volley, Bovina and Tulyaganova have huge serves, that doesn't mean they can volley. I've seen Bovina many times but I've never seen her attack the net consistently. But again, like all myths, it's hard to change people's minds, especially when they don't even bother to watch them.

Of the current top players, Dementieva's the one I've seen boldly take on very difficult volleys and pursue a net strategy consistently throughout a match most often. However, she certainly doesn't do it at every tournament - sometimes she seems totally allergic to the net - and she's so streaky that when her game is off, her net play is painful to watch.

:confused: Dementieva? really? I don't think so, she can win points at the net, but attack the net consistently? I don't think so, watch a Novotna's video and will understand what good volleys are (to be fair nobody in the tour volleys like Novotna used to,not even close), but Dementieva? her game is a typical baseline game, I don't see her hitting a slice backahand approach and then coming to the net expecting to hit two or three volleys. I don't see her hitting half-volleys, or serving and volleying? :tape:

Dementieva, like most top players can hit good groundstrokes and get short balls to put away, that's a big different with difficult volleys, I don't think she has the skills for that, I don't think she's ever learnt that (like most players).
At least Amelie and Justine know how to do it, even if they don't do it very often, but they do have the shots and the technique to do it.

vogus
Mar 27th, 2005, 09:53 PM
both Amelia Island and RG are on clay, on clay speed is not that important since you have a lot more time to get to the ball, that's why some players like Mary have always done well there.

I've seen plenty of Nadia's matches, one of the most interesting being Rosmalen in 2003 against Justine, Nadia was coming to the net and winning point, mostly because Justine couldn't be bothered, later Justine started to play a little more seriously and Nadia was passed every single time.

And you can't compare 4 different players, most players today hit hard from the baseline, so it would apply to nearly everyone.

And have you ever wondered why Lindsay has trouble against good retrievers like Kim, Justine or Serena?, because she doesn't like the ball coming back, most players are just not able anymore to blast winner after winner, they needs to set up the point, find the angles, power alone won't win you points now.

Pure and simple, Nadia is not in that league, she never was, and she never will, she is simply not that good, I would think that with her results this point would have come across but apparently it's very difficult to defeat myths.


Well, like i said, watch the matches, and if you still think Nadya is slow, then i am not going to argue with you further. Clay or no clay, she was moving great in those matches, and that's why she beat two top players who were having good days, in two of the highest quality women's matches you will see anywhere.

(btw, the preferred spelling of the Russian name "Nadya" is with a "y" (or a "j") - the reason: the y (or j) acts as a consonant, to give the name a 2-syllable pronunciation (NAHD-yuh). If you write it "Nadia", the i is an extra vowel, and people pronounce it "NAH-di-yuh" with 3 syllables, which is not correct (not that i am losing any sleep over this).

The fact that Nadya's results have been pretty patchy for a couple years doesn't mean that her potential isn't still huge. If you don't like her game for some reason then that is your business, but to say that she will never reach the top level - well, i just don't see the basis for saying that. She has a great serve, great forehand, great backhand, good volleys, strong physically, too much talent to count her out.

vogus
Mar 27th, 2005, 10:22 PM
back to the point of the thread, i think the two most natural net-attacking players are Molik (because as Fing noted she is tall with an excellent kick serve), slice backhand, and relatively weak drive backhand, which means she should attack the net from that side as she isn't going to hit many clean backhand winners - and Shenay Perry, a player who people have mostly forgotten about and who never got much fanfare in the first place but who always has impressed me when i've seen her.

chain
Mar 27th, 2005, 10:52 PM
best volleyer in the top 10 has to be Alicia Molik. she should go to the net even more actually and become a serve-volleyer. she has a beautiful net game.

Alicia becoming a full out serve-volleyer would be more of a backwards step as she started out as one then developed a baseline game and now is more of an all-court player. But yes to the more net. I miss her serve and volley.

Fingon
Mar 27th, 2005, 11:25 PM
Well, like i said, watch the matches, and if you still think Nadya is slow, then i am not going to argue with you further. Clay or no clay, she was moving great in those matches, and that's why she beat two top players who were having good days, in two of the highest quality women's matches you will see anywhere.


I still think Nadia is slow, I can't watch those matches because I don't have them, and anyway, I don't like watching Nadia as I find her boring (I watch her when she plays someone I like).

Clay or no clay? that's a big thing, you won't volley too much on clay, there is a reason for that, don't you think? What her movement was on clay is totally irrelevant because she didn't volley there did she? and this is about movement to get to the net, something not applicable to clay, try again.

about the quality, I beg to differ, I know I haven't watched the matches, but I've seen enough Nadia to know she won't give the quality of players such as Justine, Graf, Monica, you have to be joking to say her matches are the higuest quality you will see anywhere, as I said, she is not in that league.

(btw, the preferred spelling of the Russian name "Nadya" is with a "y" (or a "j") - the reason: the y (or j) acts as a consonant, to give the name a 2-syllable pronunciation (NAHD-yuh). If you write it "Nadia", the i is an extra vowel, and people pronounce it "NAH-di-yuh" with 3 syllables, which is not correct (not that i am losing any sleep over this).


well, if you want to spell it in Russian then you should use the cirillic alphabet, in the WTA site her name is spelled with an i.

The fact that Nadya's results have been pretty patchy for a couple years doesn't mean that her potential isn't still huge. If you don't like her game for some reason then that is your business, but to say that she will never reach the top level - well, i just don't see the basis for saying that. She has a great serve, great forehand, great backhand, good volleys, strong physically, too much talent to count her out.

I've said that since the first time I saw her, it was all hype but no substance there, you can tell when you watch a player if there is potential there, by looking at the technique.

I can't be bother to look at old threads, but I've been saying this about Nadia well before she started to lose or got injured, I am not saying she won't be at the top because of her results, rather her results are what I expected (in fact, better than I expected).

I don't really see anything special in her, like to be consider a favourite in every tournament and a future GS winner, it's just not there, yes, she has a good serve, so do many players, she doesn't have a Serena's type serve, her groundstrokes are ok, but nothing special, and her movement is terrible, and her attitude on court is terrible, so 10-15 is about right for her, maybe occassionally in the top 10, and I doubt that unless she changes her attitude completely, entering winable tournament and pulling out two years in a row with the same excuse will not do it, and I don't think she can win a higuer level tournament unless she gets lucky (like Bovina in New Haven).

vogus
Mar 28th, 2005, 12:32 AM
I still think Nadia is slow, I can't watch those matches because I don't have them, and anyway, I don't like watching Nadia as I find her boring (I watch her when she plays someone I like).

Clay or no clay? that's a big thing, you won't volley too much on clay, there is a reason for that, don't you think? What her movement was on clay is totally irrelevant because she didn't volley there did she? and this is about movement to get to the net, something not applicable to clay, try again.
).


actually, Nadya had probably the best volleying day of any non-serve and volley player i've ever seen that day at RG. She came in a lot of times and she was making everything at the net, pretty much out of her mind, and on really big points as well. And because it was clay, Nadya actually had to volley MORE than she would have if it were hardcourt, because as you said, on clay there is more time to run down balls that would be winners on hardcourt, and Capriati was getting to everything that day. So i mean, you really have a misconception of this match if you think Nadya wasn't volleying much. If you like to watch players attacking the net in a high-stakes setting (pretty rare for the WTA), then this match is worth your time to take a look at, even as a Petrova skeptic.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 28th, 2005, 05:09 PM
"Dementieva? her game is a typical baseline game, I don't see her hitting a slice backahand approach and then coming to the net expecting to hit two or three volleys. I don't see her hitting half-volleys, or serving and volleying? "

I don't know of any net rusher who expects to hit more than two volleys, especially in todays game, you'd be toast more often than not.

A slice backhand isn't a pre-req. for approaching the net.

andrewbroad
Apr 1st, 2005, 12:07 AM
Vera Zvonareva can play very effectively at the net when she chooses to (which isn't very often). I can't think of a more beautiful punch-volley among currently active players.

Daniela Hantuchová has a good net-game, although she needs to be selective in when she comes to the net in singles because her sharp, flairsome groundstrokes are the best part of her game. But Daniela has lovely drop-volleys.

Iroda Tulyaganova is versatile enough to play an out-and-out serve-volley game on grass, as I saw her do at Eastbourne 2002.

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
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