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barabanschikova_fan
Mar 27th, 2002, 05:24 PM
Is it possible to add my flag to your list of available flags for my user name.

Québec

thanks a lot

polishprodigy
Mar 27th, 2002, 08:01 PM
Your "Country" is not a country! It is your flag. Have pride in Quebec, I like the province and its inhabitants. But just don't support someone who calls the Canadian flag a "red rag". Vive le drapeau Quebec ;), but remember Canada is important too. Don't say Quebec is a "country" when really it is a province! :rolleyes: :mad:

Scotso
Mar 28th, 2002, 05:40 AM
:rolleyes:

Poe
Mar 28th, 2002, 05:45 AM
there are no provincial flags.. and if you're seperatists, well, i won't even go there...:rolleyes:

polishprodigy
Mar 28th, 2002, 01:34 PM
Thats it Scott, roll your eyes. :p Separatism is bad and there is no need for it to exist. :rolleyes:

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 28th, 2002, 05:27 PM
I respect your point of view but disagree. There is place for all ideologies in this world is it true? So i think mine is okay too. We try to do it by a democrativ way so what is bad with that? When i read that kind of speach that you have it convince me more that my opinion is the good one. You don't understand us and it's time to change.

I asked to add my flag to the list of available flags because i think i'm not the only one here who wants our flag in the list. "OUr flag" because 78% of the population here, in a recent survey, consider themself "Québécois" before than "canadian". That's why i asked if it was possible to add my flag.

I have nothing against the canadian flag i just think it doesn't represent me in any case. I would prefer the flag of France than the canadian flag. You just could not imagine how i would love to feel canadian, but this is not the case and this is not my fault. We are like we are and here we are different. When i read that kind of speach that you wrote guys, i realize that Diane Francis did her job right by writting that kind of stupidities.

We are a nation in a country who doesn't accept it. So i think my ideologie is not a bad one in that case.

Vanity
Mar 28th, 2002, 05:29 PM
:rolleyes:

Poe
Mar 28th, 2002, 06:21 PM
God I was writing such a lengthy reply and realized it's not even worth my time.

Poe
Mar 28th, 2002, 06:29 PM
Only to say if Quebec feels that way, then yes it is their fault and I won't be shedding any tears when you finally separate. Absolutely nothing would satisfy you people unless the entire country spoke strictly French, because you feel threatened and paranoid. Whenever I want to feel like I'm in a different country I'll just go to Quebec and speak English to somebody and the dirty look I'll get is evidence all its own. I grew up in a French-Canadian community in Ontario, and they didn't make me feel that way. It's only that way in one self-serving province with only its interests in mind, and couldn't care less about the rest of the country. With that attitude you're more than welcome to split imo.

Steveg
Mar 28th, 2002, 06:42 PM
Where is there a moderator around here :eek: ???

Où y a-t-il un modérateur dans les parages :eek: ???

;)

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 28th, 2002, 07:03 PM
Is it because we protect our language from assimilation that we are a nation with closed eyes? Our culture is in "danger" so we need to protect it. Even your canadian governement realize that.

And your post make me think to one thing that i wrote recently in a work for my university... wich one of the 2 minorities is the best served...

On one side we have the french minority in Canada who could not receive any service in french. They don't have any french university and days after days they have the feeling that they are inferior to anglophones because anglophone have everything and them nothing. Not a good situation am i right?

On the other side we have the anglophone minority. They have 2 big university in Québec, they have a lot!!! of college in english only, they can be serve anywere in Québec in their own language. Nobody look at them when they speak english because this i a reality of multiculturalism and we respect that here. They can find jobs even if they speak english only. And many more reasons.

So don't make me laugh when you said that we wants a french-only country. We will not do the same thing with our minority that you did with your minority. We are open minded!

Steveg
Mar 28th, 2002, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by barabanschikova_fan
Is it because we protect our language from assimilation that we are a nation with closed eyes? Our culture is in "danger" so we need to protect it. Even your canadian governement realize that.


I thought that all cultures benefited from assimilation of and exchange with other cultures, I have heard of "protection of a nation's culture" in other times.

I know you certainly do not mean the same barabanschikova_fan but there is only a small margin between "protection of a nation's culture" and "protection of the purity of a nation's culture.

As much as I am French and "Francophile", I feel necessary to step in at this stage on this point.

The same way as I must step in to say that there is no place in this world for all ideologies.

Here again I am certain that you are referring to a certain context specific to Quebec, barabanschikova_fan, but this can not apply to all cases.

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 28th, 2002, 07:56 PM
sorry for my poor english, it's more tough for me to explain what i think in english but i try to do my best.

But the protection of the french culture in Québec is a good protection not a bad one. And this is not the opinion of only the separatists but also from others who are not. The Assemblée nationale members are all agree on the protection of the culture with the "loi 101".

I agree i did not express myself very well about the ideologies. In was in fact about Québec ideologies. But even then, we can understand most of the ideologies in the world when you put yourself in the place of another person. "Valeurs"(sorry i don't know the word in englsih) are different in the world and we must respect that i think but i agree not in all cases.

40% of the anglophone population in Québec do not speak one word of french and they are able to live here anyway i think this is a good sign that the protection of our french culture is not a protection of the purity of our culture. I hope you understand me well. Sorry again for my english.

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 28th, 2002, 08:04 PM
So back on the subject of my post. Can you add my flag or not?

I have a better idea anyway.
How can we put a picture under our username?

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 28th, 2002, 08:11 PM
testing

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 28th, 2002, 08:14 PM
i sould try to find a better image but it was just for testing.

Thanks

Steveg
Mar 28th, 2002, 08:29 PM
Nice avatar ;) , barabanschikova_fan .

For the Admins : I had just realised that my flag had suddenly disappeared. I do not understand as I had not edited my profile for a while :confused: .

Scotso
Mar 28th, 2002, 10:05 PM
Can I have a flag for my ass, Poe? I mean, it has it's own language and I'm just not comfortable pretending that it's part of the United States.

Poe
Mar 28th, 2002, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Scotso
Can I have a flag for my ass, Poe?

lol you set me up for a killer post in this thread but i'm going to be civil and keep it to myself :D

*biting tongue*

Scotso
Mar 28th, 2002, 10:15 PM
*bites something else of your's*

Vanity
Mar 28th, 2002, 10:22 PM
The way I look at it... if Poe adds the province flag for Quebec, then everyone from every country will want their province/state flag added as well! ;)

Scotso
Mar 28th, 2002, 10:29 PM
our state flag just isn't appropriate... there's a half naked woman on it! :o

saby
Mar 28th, 2002, 10:34 PM
barabanschikova_fan,

Ton drapeau n'est peut être pas celui de ton pays mais c'est celui qui te ressemble, si tu te sens plus québecois que canadien ne renonce pas à te battre.

Pour moi le canada est aussi le Québec, je peux pas les dissocier, sans le québec le Canada ne serait plus le Canada.

J'espère que ton drapeau sera ajouté mais j'en doute


:angel: :angel: :angel:

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 29th, 2002, 01:50 AM
name me just one province or state who is more proud of his province than his country? Québec is a distinct society since the Revolution Tranquille and everybody realize that our Québec is the first thing who caracterize us. Even with the millions and millions that Canada spend in Québec to put the word CANADA everywhere on our territory we will never be canadian. Money don't buy everything. For those who don't live here, can you realize that the canadian governement spend 81% of their budget of promotion of the "beauty" of Canada and for the Canada day in Québec??? Is it what we call a "tentative" of assimilation? Shy for them!!!

No money in Québec is spend by the governement (a separatist one) to promote the separation of Québec. Wich side is the worst between the 2???

Merci de me soutenir, je ne lâcherai jamais sur une question aussi importante et surtout jamais si près du but!

Poe
Mar 29th, 2002, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by barabanschikova_fan
Even with the millions and millions that Canada spend in Québec to put the word CANADA everywhere on our territory we will never be canadian.

you make it sound like Quebec is not even a canadian province right now within canadian territory. Do you have any idea how fortunate you are that you are in a passive country like Canada instead of the united states or china? Do you know what the american government would do to a rogue state? send in the military! somebody that talks the way you do doesn't even DESERVE to be canadian. This country is so beautiful and has given YOU and everyone else in Quebec so much. Tell me something, when Quebec separates are you guys going to pay your share of the national debt? Your share is quite large u know and last i heard the separatists even wanted to use Canadian currency.

So sad.

Vanity
Mar 29th, 2002, 02:25 AM
Poe..... you said it very very well. All I can say is "I second that". ;)

I've been to Quebec many times and to me, it was just the same as Alberta except the French signs were bigger than the English.

Jetta
Mar 29th, 2002, 02:41 AM
holy geesh Barabanschikova_fan........until Quebec officially becomes a country.....I don't think it will get a flag here :o

Julie
Mar 29th, 2002, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by barabanschikova_fan
Is it possible to add my flag to your list of available flags for my user name.

To cut a long story short, i euhm think euhm , well you know i might be wrong here :p :p But euhm - well i reckon theres a pretty good chance that the answer is well, well 100% NO, nada, etc blah blah blah ;)

Shall i repeat this for clarification :p :p

A big fat NO

Are you reading me, is it loud and clear - or shall i say it again, maybe ill do it in father ted style this time

No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p No :p

That should do it

:wavey:

OH and BTW Scotso - you tried, cant say fairer than that ;)

Julie
Mar 29th, 2002, 02:50 AM
Awwwwwww Isnt that pretty :D :D

Oh and NO isnt always fat - just this time, although maybe in terms of political correctness - i should have put overweight or large but well it kinda doesnt have the same ring to it - dont oyu thing.

A big overweight NO - its not working for me anyway ;)

I think i should probably leave now, before i get shouted at :o

Jetta
Mar 29th, 2002, 02:51 AM
LOL@Julie

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 29th, 2002, 09:40 AM
anyway i have what i wanted. My flag under my username.

Scotso
Mar 29th, 2002, 03:45 PM
It's funny someone who is so pro-Quebec has "Russian domination" in their signature.

Make up your mind.

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Mar 29th, 2002, 04:21 PM
lmao... ;)
Vanity... ;) :D

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 29th, 2002, 05:22 PM
I can be proud of my country and also realize that another one has the best athletes in the world. That's why my signature is Russian domination. Québec will never dominate like them in sport but if we were already independant, we would be in the fifteen more important countrys in the world.

Poe
Mar 29th, 2002, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by barabanschikova_fan
I can be proud of my country

but you're not.. you're only proud of your province

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 29th, 2002, 05:41 PM
a country for a person is something that you can be represent by so Canada is not my country, Québec is mine. Québec never signed the Constitution they forced us. In that case i will never feel canadian.

Poe
Mar 29th, 2002, 05:43 PM
you can keep telling yourself that over and over if it makes you feel better but the fact remains Quebec is a Canadian province and if you don't want to be canadian you're going to have to move

polishprodigy
Mar 29th, 2002, 05:50 PM
Ok. First of all, I just want to say that I did an independent study on Quebec separatism and the Parti Quebecois (for two different subjects), and I found that the Quebec government is very anti-English, but then when they are trying to attract votes or are deemed too harsh by light separatists, they go hypocritical and say that they are going to 'protect' the english minority as well. BS. First, Office de la langue Francais. Something like that. It protects the french language, otherwise known as 'tongue-troopers'. It wastes money. ANd Barabanschikova-fan, you say that Francophones do not detest Anglophones? I find it amazing how there are laws like Bill 22 and Bill 101(restricting commerical signs to predominantly or ALL French) . Second, it is amazing (and disappointing) that Francophones continue to support Bernard Landry after he called theCanadian flag a "red rag" and former-Quebec premier Jacques Parizeau who blamed the refernedum loss on separation on "money and the ethnic vote." This is absolutely appalling. Also, you say that you would prefer the French flag then the Canadian flag. Well, in not trying to be prejudicial (which is what Quebec laws and most Francophones are), why not go live in France? It seems as though Quebec will not stop whining or complaining until you are the majority and you are above all others. Nothing will satisfy you. Canada gave you a bilingual system, equalization payments and other benefits, and you still complain? PFFF. AND, as the Quebec government are hypocritical, they have the nerve to say that if they were to separate, they would still use the Canadian dollar! That is ludacrist! Anyway, I just want to say that separatism is over, and this necessant whining has shown its true colours, not "protection" of the French language, but greed.

polishprodigy
Mar 29th, 2002, 05:59 PM
BTW, there are many other provinces (like Nova Scotia, the Northern Territories and Newfoundland) who are as proud of their culture as Quebec is. They don't want to separate! :p Also, if Quebec were to separate (which it never will) , and players like Marie-Eve Pelletier were to stay representing Canada, would you consider them traitors? Also, boundary disputes, loss of transfer payments and issues with pro-Canada Quebec natives, would all arise if Quebec separation were to occur. You want that? You think it is better then what you have now? For goodness sake, all the immigrants coming to Canada don't go to Quebec, for the sole reason that they will not be able to have their children be taught in ENGLISH and French, because of silly laws! Quebec is suffering, and it is evident that separatism is not favourable anymore, as the Liberals in Quebec won the popular vote, and the Federal Liberals soundly defeated the BQ in Quebec in the last election. Give me a break! If you are not happy with all the spoling you receive in Canada, go live in France, and then realize what a privelidge you have living in Canada!

Poe
Mar 29th, 2002, 06:06 PM
omg thank you polishprodigy!!! :D

Jetta
Mar 29th, 2002, 06:08 PM
POE!!!!

I never gave you permission to use my quote! :o

Poe
Mar 29th, 2002, 06:09 PM
pffffff!!!! well you didn't answer me so i just helped myself :D

c'mon! i'm advertising for you! that has to be worth something

Jetta
Mar 29th, 2002, 06:26 PM
I should get paid!:p

Poe
Mar 29th, 2002, 06:46 PM
the cheque is in the mail!!

Jetta
Mar 29th, 2002, 06:49 PM
:rolleyes:

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 29th, 2002, 07:01 PM
Wow finally a long post!!! Just too bad i'm not able to explain myself at the ebst of my capacities.

First of all, why should i leave for France??? Québec have his own territory and borders (?frontières?) We were forced to gave the Labrador but we have a territory so why i should move?

About the "Office de la langue française" it is an office who protect the french language to not lose time in court because we have laws and like all laws we are supose to follow them. This office do not promote the beauty of Québec and they don't try to convince people that the souveraineté is the best way for our "province".

About the law 101. Do you realize that your canadian governement is agree with that law. All members of the Assemblée nationale too. It was made at a period of the history where the french was nowhere in the province who was supose to be french. We worked against the assimilation since 200 years and it will not be in 2002 that we will stop to help the french. Without that law, it could be the end of the french. Diversity of culture is better than just one is it true?

About the "chiffon rouge" story with Mister Bernard Landry, don't make me laugh. It was said in french and english journalists decided to translate this sentence in their own way. You know the kind of translation word-to-word (sorry i don't know if this is the good word) is not always the best way to translate things from french to english. In fact it was notting against the canadian flag. The day he said that we did not heard anything about that in the french news because this sentence was made in french and we understand that it was not bad because it was not against the flag. It is only the day after when english news made it a big story that we have heard of that.

I agree that Jacques Parizeau speach was probably not very appropriated. But what he said was a reality...but i supose we are not supose to said loud all the facts. But when you try to be in his head and body, do you realize how it hurt when you dedicated 50 years of your life for something and you lost your dream by only few votes. Their is things in life who always stay in your mind. The separation of québec is a question of hearth, not a question of money. This October 30th 1995 night will always stay in my head for the rest of my life. I remember my mother crying when we were watching the results on TV. That kind of things stay in your hearth and your head. That's why i would love so much to finally have a country. I have nothing against you guys i hope you realize that. But i just think after so many years of fight between Québec and Canada, that we sould stop that and leave. This is like a mariage. We are not made to be together anymore. And when that happen, a divorced is necessare.

polishprodigy
Mar 30th, 2002, 12:37 AM
Whatever, Bill 101 is criticized by many, its jsut that government officials dont say a word , because it will stir up Quebec whining and talk about separatism. Translated or not-translated, Bernard Landry was insulting the Canadian flag. With this marriage thing, divorce is not the answer! Counselling! ;) If you would 'prefer the French flag over teh Canadian" why don't you move there? I understand you love Quebec, so wouldn't that mean that you would try your best to see that Quebec stays with Canada and retains its rich culture? Why separate? What about all those QUEBECKERS who DO NOT WANT TO SEPARATE? The french language has been recognized and protected, we don't need tongu-troopers to scoop around and charge English people for speaking their own language. :rolleyes: Laws, how is speaking or writing in English illegal? :P

Scotso
Mar 30th, 2002, 02:25 AM
Plus it seems that the majority of Quebecois wish the remain Canadians or they WOULD NOT BE.

Simple logic suggests that you're on the losing end. But sense that's too hard for you to understand, shall we put it in more simple terms?

GET OVER IT.

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 30th, 2002, 03:04 AM
speaking and writting in english is not forbidden. So stop doing like the canadian governement do with their plan B. When you don't try to understand us like you are doing here, it not help your cause.

polishprodigy
Mar 30th, 2002, 03:51 AM
Ok , maybe LITERALLY it is not forbidden, but it is so minimalized and rejected and despised, that you can hardly see its existence! :rolleyes:

Vanity
Mar 30th, 2002, 04:10 AM
Quebec = province of Canada

forever and ever, and there's nothing you can do about it!!!

HA HA HA!!


:p

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 30th, 2002, 08:20 PM
have you ever visited Montréal??? Half of the population speak english and the other half speak french so don't make me laugh. Name me just one other city in north america who is like that?

40% of the anglophones in Québec don't even speak a word of french. They don't understand one word! Can you imagine that? So don't tell me we force them to speak french.

Québec is a french territory, so i think a normal person who stay here should talk a little bit of french in the public. When someone is asking me something at my job and he speak english, i'm answering him in french and most of them understand what i told them. And if he don't understand i repeat in english. I accept that but will always use the french before the english. Is it the same thing in Canada even if you said this is a bilingual country:rolleyes: ? Not at all!!! Speak french in Canada and people will look at you and will ignore you even if you talk to them because they simply think they are superior. That feeling is there since the conquete and is still there. I have try last summer to give them another chance when i was visiting Toronto but it was a disaster!!!

When someone who was a real Canada fan, leader of the liberal party of Québec and prime minister for more than 15 years said after the lost of Meech: " Mister speaker, english Canada need to understand, clearly, whatever we said and whatever we do, Québec is today, and for always, a distinct society, free and able to ride his future and his developpement" from Robert Bourassa.
When someone like him, said that, it really in that kind of moment that we realize that the Québécois are different and we are able to be independant! By reading that quote for the 100th times at this moment, i think i need to change my signature...

Jetta
Mar 30th, 2002, 08:59 PM
I think that barabanschikova_fan should QUIT BITCHING about wanting a QUEBEC flag until QUEBEC OFFICIALLY.....LISTED IN ANY OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS (and show proofs)........ that it is a country :mad:

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Mar 30th, 2002, 09:02 PM
LMAO@ this!!!! OMG... thanks for the history lesson Baraban... soooooo exciting!

"When someone is asking me something at my job and he speak english, i'm answering him in french and most of them understand what i told them. And if he don't understand i repeat in english."

Hehe, this one was fun! Why don't you just answer in English, it will save both you and that poor person's time!

angele87
Mar 30th, 2002, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by barabanschikova_fan
When someone is asking me something at my job and he speak english, i'm answering him in french and most of them understand what i told them. And if he don't understand i repeat in english.

Before I actually get to my point, I just want to comment on that quote. You say that people who speak english think they are superior but just look at what you said. I would be willing to bet my life that if you spoke to someone in french and they responded in engligh you would call them arrogant.

Anyways, getting to my point! I am a french Canadian but I'm not from Quebec and my roots are not in Quebec. I live in a very very small Acadian town and I am very proud of my culture and my language even if all the towns that surround us are english and probably don't even know what an Acadian is... yet I consider myself Canadian, am proud to have the Canadian flag next to name and have never asked to have the Acadian flag added to the list of flags. Although I am proud of my language, I am also glad that I am fluent in French and English because for me it's an advantage in everything. I can communicate with more people therefore am more qualifed for certain (and most) jobs. When I go to university, my choice will not be limited because of the language I speak... If I want to go to Dalhousie, I will be able to fonction there, ditto for Moncton... I'm really sorry if I'm being harsh but it really pisses me off when I hear people from Quebec complain that their culture is being taken away because I'm Acadian living in a totally English province yet I am still very proud of my culture and I still speak French as well as some people that are totally surrounded by French, like you.

Si tu ne me crois pas tu peux m'envoyer un message privé ou un message par couriel. Tu vois, je parle très bien français même si je suis entourée de l'anglais... et c'est même extra-ordinaire que mon français est si bon parce que la langue acadienne est différente de la langue française alors si moi je suis capable de maintenir mon niveau de français, toi aussi tu devrais pouvoir le faire. Tu as été né en parlant plus ou moins du français standard mais moi le français standard je l'ai seulement appris a l'école! Aussi en tant que culture, la culture acadienne est très spécifique mais dans mon petit village de 3 000 personnes, qui est entouré d'anglais, on est capable de maintenir notre culture, language, traditions etc...

angele87
Mar 30th, 2002, 09:43 PM
Also thanks for the very informative post polishprodigy!!

And chiffon rouge is red rag... there is no other way to translate it. And I'm just guessing here but the reason that comment only caused an uproar with the English media might be because the French media (or most of it) agreed with the comment. Just for example, if Osama Bin Laden made anti-American comments they would cause more of an uproar in American than in Afghanistan right??

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 30th, 2002, 10:26 PM
Radio-Canada in french did not even put this news in their news report the day it happen. Only the day after when they saw how the anglophone took this sentence. I try to remember the best i can but i'M not sure what was the interpretation was about. It is something in relation with Spain i think if i remember well. Anyway it is not important because it was nothing in relation with the canadian flag. At less nothing bad.

And if you read again at the beginning of my post, it was nothing very big. I only asked if it was possible to add my flag. A simple "no" with a short explication could be okay for me. I just don't understand why the topic grow and grow days after days for a simple question of flag. I think it sad that i could not have my flag under my username but what can i do more than put my flag like avatar? I lose the chance to put an Olya picture like avatar nothing else.

Pour mon voisin acadien, il me ferait plaisir de communiquer avec toi mais je crois que j'ai assez expliqué mon point de vu pour que tu me comprennes. Ou du moins pour que tu tentes de comprendre mon point de vu. Si tu ne le partages pas je respecte ça, respecte le mien s'il te plait. Si tu veux argumenter libre à toi de communiquer avec moi et je te répondrai avec plaisir mais je ne vois pas ce que je pourrais rajouter de plus si c'est moi qui t'écris en premier. Voici mon courriel: jonathan@barabanschikova.com ou bien MSN : jo_lavoie@hotmail.com

Je termine mon BAC en science politique alors ça va me faire plasir d'argumenter avec toi. Mon meilleur ami est fédéraliste et ma copine n'est pas souverainiste alors tu vois que je ne suis pas si fermé que ça:) Mais tu dois comprendre que la souveraineté du Québec est pour moi une question de coeur alors tu as 0% de chance de me convaincre. Si c'est ton but de me convaincre, tu perds ton temps alors ne le perd pas pour rien dans ce cas. Le Canada ne sera jamais mon pays quoi qu'il fasse. 200 ans de domination et d'antisémitisme envers ma nation ne s'oublie pas si rapidement. Je dois t'avouer que j'ai de la difficulté à comprendre comment tu es capable de si vite oublier ce qu'ils ont fait à ton peuple. Libre à toi de m'écrire ça me ferait plaisir.

Martian KC
Mar 31st, 2002, 01:39 AM
It seems your English has improved from your terror days of sanex.:plol

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 31st, 2002, 06:40 AM
Thanks KC, another prove that i'M not anti-anglophone, i learned it at school because we do not have the choice! but i don't think it is the same thing for the ROC (rest of Canada) they don't have to learn french because for them this is an inferior language!

Poe
Mar 31st, 2002, 06:44 AM
actually we ARE required to learn french every year up to grade 9!

get your facts straight

Poe
Mar 31st, 2002, 06:54 AM
actually when i was in highschool 2 French credits were required which would put it up to grade 10

you know the more you argue in this thread the more it's clear that the problem isn't with the "ROC" but with you.. you just want your own little country and that's all you care about and you try to make it seem as if Canada has given you no choice but to feel that way.. your arguments are transparent .. your self-importance and superiority complex will lead to the ruin of your own province, and if you have your way, the rest of Canada as well

you keep saying how the English treat the French like their language is inferior, and that they are trying to push their culture onto you... well who is the one whining for their own country so that they can enforce their language and culture onto all its inhabitants?... you are the ones who obviously can make no room for anybody else's culture... oh look! somebody wants to speak English!! WE NEED OUR OWN COUNTRY :rolleyes:

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 31st, 2002, 07:48 AM
Yes i want my own country because i'm itired to see both nation fighting to win the battle between the two. Does it make me a bad person for that? I want to stop 200 years of fighting between anglophones and francophones. I want to to put my qualities in others things than a fight to have a country.

I repeat, we will never do the same things to our minority that you did to your minority, We know too well how it is sad to see that kind of attitude.

The separation movement in Québec is there to stay. It's a question of feeling and emotions. If you are not agree with our movement it's your opinion, i have mine. 49,6% of the population in 1995 voted yes for the separation of Québec. When you read those statistics, does is mean in your head that we are 49,6% of stupid guys in Québec who want to leave for nothing? AND PLEASE GIVE ME AN ANSWER ON THAT!!! Are you one of those you agree with Diane Francis?

An independant Québec would be in the top 15 most important country on the economic side in the world!!! I have the numbers if you want. For each book who is writing in Canada, Québec authors write 1! For each million and millions of dollars that your canadian governement spend to promote the beauty of Canad on our territory, our governement spend 000000000$ to promote the separation! Who is bad between the 2?

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Mar 31st, 2002, 05:13 PM
:rolleyes: I think we have to learn French all over the world... It's either French or German... and English of course...

My French isn't very good :O but at least I try..*sigh*

angele87
Mar 31st, 2002, 06:55 PM
Salut... Jonathan?? Le point de mon message n'étaient pas vraiment pour argumenter avec toi ( et je ne voudrais pas faire cela puisque tu dois être bcq plus intelligent que moi si tu es a l'université :p) mais plutôt pour te dire que c'est possible de garder ta culture et ta langue même si tous les gens qui t'entourent ne les partagent pas. Tu devrais te considerer chanceux que tu connait deux langues et que tu habites dans une province qui reconnait le français comme une langue officielle... moi j'habite dans une province que eat presque totalement anglaise. Aussi, la plupart de la Nouvelle Ecosse, ainsi que du Canada, ne sait rien a propos de la culture et la langue Acadienne. Je suis quand même très fiere de me nommer Canadienne et je réalise que je suis chanceuse d`habiter dans un pays si formidable!! Aussi à propos des cours de français... j'ai beaucoup d'amis que vont à des écoles anglaises et comme Poe a mentioné, ils doivent prendre des cours de français jusqu'à la dixième année. Et je pense que la raison que le gouvernement (tu veux dire fédérale, correcte?) ne dépense pas d'argent pour démontrer la séparation est parce que le gouvernement ne veux pas de séparation ou de conflit permis ces provinces!!

barabanschikova_fan
Mar 31st, 2002, 10:55 PM
je parlais du gouvernement québécois qui n'investissait 0$ pour la promotion de la souveraineté du Québec bien que ça soit un gouvernement séparatiste.

angele87
Mar 31st, 2002, 11:25 PM
Ok si c'est le gouvernement québécois qui ne dépense pas d'argent sur la séparation du Québec se n'est pas le gouvernement fédérale qui est a fait quelque chose de mauvais mais plutot le gouvernement de ta précieuse province. Le gouvernement canadienne veut promouvoir le Canada et c'est ce qu'ils font... si le gouvernement québécois veut promouvoir la séparation c'est a eux de le faire....

polishprodigy
Apr 1st, 2002, 03:13 AM
Talk about xenophobia, look at your political party leaders! :rolleyes: HYPOCRICY!

Poe
Apr 1st, 2002, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by jp


If the board would have a xenophobic-meter it would probably have exploded after this post.

excuse me? next time you insult somebody be prepared to elaborate just a tad.

Poe
Apr 1st, 2002, 03:34 AM
well calling somebody xenophobic is an insult ... and that would be pretty hard for me considering i have a very large French Canadian family

i dont' see how having a debate with somebody about political issues that i feel strongly about is rude... if i don't want my country to be split apart that is my right.. and somebody asking for a Quebec flag and saying that Quebec is a country is rude where i'm standing from, since I am a Canadian. Can you understand that? Are you even Canadian?

If this thread were only about asking for a flag obviously it wouldn't have over 50 replies.. not everything is that simple :rolleyes:

Poe
Apr 1st, 2002, 03:36 AM
and maybe instead of judging only one side of this argument as rude you should read some of b_fan's posts about his attitude towards the English and then talk to me about xenophobia and rude responses

Vanity
Apr 1st, 2002, 09:48 PM
I want to stop 200 years of fighting between anglophones and francophones. I want to to put my qualities in others things than a fight to have a country.

The only fighting is between you and your separtist buddies! You're making this out to be like Jewish vs. Palestianians or something! sheesh!

barabanschikova_fan
Apr 1st, 2002, 09:55 PM
i only gave my opinion on the relation between canadian and québécois who was never good in 200 years and it doesn't stop at the moment. This is both rivals and nobody want to lose the battle so we will never have a good relation so why stay?

I speak english everyday so don't make me laugh when you compare my posts with xenophobia. I only asked for my flag and look how the debate turned after my first post. This is just another proof that it will always be tough to live with each other in the same country. Our vision of the world and of the politic world is totally different. Do you realize that because of your governement we will have to put kids in jales in Québec even if we have another method to put kids on the right track? It is a "canadian" decision and no one can act differently across the country even if it worked well there before.

Vanity
Apr 1st, 2002, 09:58 PM
I don't have anything against Quebeckers or Quebec.... just crazy separtists like you. I cannot wait to attend the CANADIAN open in Montreal this year! :) :kiss:


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

barabanschikova_fan
Apr 2nd, 2002, 12:32 AM
canadian open yes and his best tournament director of their history was a "crazy separatist" like you said :bounce: Richard Legendre, ministre of my governement, and former tournament director here in Montréal. A city open on the world and who is really bilingual!!!

I was at toronto for the canadian open last year and also for the other women tournament before this one and i had the chance to talk with people because it was always raining last summer. I have nothing against them, they are nice people, but they just don't see things in the same way than me. I respect that. They have their opinion i have mine. Can you understand and respect that? I only asked for my flag. I did not promoted the separation, i asked: Can i have my flag added on your list.

Scotso
Apr 2nd, 2002, 12:56 AM
Can't you just ban this person? They're obviously not here to talk about tennis, just to spread their propoganda.

Poe
Apr 2nd, 2002, 02:21 AM
Can you understand and respect that? I only asked for my flag. I did not promoted the separation,

please spare me! you are not some kind of victim here.. has it slipped your mind that you have contributed to this debate as much as anybody else here??? has it just been a bunch of us ganging up on somebody who simply wanted a flag? Give me a break! it takes more than one person to have a disagreement... we havent' been arguing with ourselves..

anyone who thinks they can ask for a quebec flag to represent themselves without some kind of disagreement from other canadians who actually have national pride is delusional

This is just another proof that it will always be tough to live with each other in the same country

that is hillarious... how many times are you going to state something, and when somebody simply disagrees with your point of view it's "proof" that you need your own country lol .. proof is something seriously lacking in any separatist's point of view... the fact is you guys not only want your own country, you actually have the audacity to make it seem like you should have it because of the way the rest of canada treats you... You claim we supress your culture.. as i said before, who is the one who really does not accept any other culture here? If that were the case we would be the ones telling YOU to leave.. to get your own country...

if it had anything to do at all with anything Canada has done, any laws, anything the nation as a whole has done, you would be putting your engery into changing those things.. laws you disagree with, and promoting your culture and opinions.. instead of doing that you put all your energy into simply stating that you want your own country.. that you can't be Canadian.. that you don't want to be part of our Country anymore... Obviously then it has nothing at all to do with anything Canada has done or the way it has treated Quebec.. or you would change those things.. you'd think that would be slightly easier than trying to separate a country

It is a "canadian" decision and no one can act differently across the country even if it worked well there before.

so let me get this straight... if you get your wish and Quebec becomes a country, you will have no national laws or ways of doing things?? Every single city will do things their own way?? Because if not, then i guess any city that has a different outlook than you, should become its own country.. right??? Because otherwise Quebec would be forcing its ideas and laws onto everyone else.. and we can't have that! In fact i know many places in Canada that probably have different ways they would like to do things.. maybe they should all be separate countries too then

it's as if you don't even have any concept of what a country IS... even american states have different laws.. Quebec has it's own laws in some cases that do not apply to other provinces.. even municipalities pass their own by-laws.. this does not mean they should all be separate countries

Quebec could point out everything they dislike about being part of Canada and open a debate, and put effort into changing those things.. but instead they want their own country.. that is the main point..do not blame that self-important arrogance on the rest of canada as if they are responsible for your desire to separate our country, send both Quebec's and Canada's economy to ruins and divide English and French Canadians everywhere as a result

No one Province in any country should be able to decide the fate of an entire nation.. that is why in any other country they would use military force before allowing this to go any further

but what happens in Canada.. the federal government actually allows a referendum to let the Quebec people CHOOSE if they want to divide OUR country!!

omg what a horrible and tyranical country Canada is... does it ever force it's culture on you!

Quebec culture IS a part of canadian culture.. and the rest of canada's culture is a part of Quebec's.. that's what it means to be a country... A group of separatists seeking power and independance should not be allowed to destroy that for their own goals

and who exactly are you trying to save your culture from? Obviously if English culture is taking over Quebec it's because Quebec population allows it and is accepting of that culture! there is influence on everybody's culture from the outside in many other places than Quebec.. just look at how the American culture has influenced our own and the rest of the world... yet we do not all become Americans.. we have the ability to keep our own culture despite outside influences

if your culture is dying it's because your own people have accepted somebody else's culture.. so you're trying to save Quebec's population from themselves... dividing our nation will do nothing for your cause, the influences will still be there.. the only difference is that you will have torn apart our country and destroyed our economy.. do you think if Quebec separates, that some big enormous wall will appear that stops any outside influence from entering your "Country?" Will you outlaw English entirely? Will you prevent all our shows from airing on your television? Will you forbid your children to learn English? Because that's what it would take to keep your culture completely independant... declaring yourselves a separate country isn't going to magically do that for you.. so if you're not prepared to do all those things, what's the point in separating.. and if you do, you need to take a look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers


if you think you'll be one of the "15 most important countries in the world" after you divide Canada you are so sorely mistaken.. and it's so sad that you'll have to learn that the hard way and take the rest of us with you

Scotso
Apr 2nd, 2002, 04:36 AM
Indeed. If my state said it was going to vote on separation from the US the gov't would have hundreds of thousands of troops here before you could cry Dixie! *slaps his knee*

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Apr 2nd, 2002, 11:30 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just another proof that it will always be tough to live with each other in the same country
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You think that's tough?? what about all the war, hunger and poverty else where in the world? You should be thankful that you live in Canada. Have you forgotten that Canada was ranked #1 country in the world? (Norway kicked Canada away... :angel:) I'm sure that they counted Quebec in...

angele87
Apr 2nd, 2002, 11:47 AM
Well said Poe... I couldn't have said it any better!!

Mattographer
Apr 2nd, 2002, 01:15 PM
*yawn* :rolleyes:

barabanschikova_fan
Apr 2nd, 2002, 02:29 PM
Wow what an emotional debate again. You make me feel that i'M the only one here who is bad and that you are right. You know what? That's exactly what we want to stop. Because this is not the only time canadians act like that. A feeling of superiority on the french population is still present.

Why they should send the army here for a democratic method of independance? If i follow your idea, USSR should still exist. We have try to change the federation in the best way possible for more than 30 years now, and we are still waiting for any change after the fail of Meech and Charlottetown.

I have a question in mind because your reflection on this board made me think to someone. Do you agree with Diane Francis? And another question, did the Québécois does sometimes something good in life or they are just bad like you seem to said?

After 80 post i realize that i lose my time with you guys because you don't want to understand my point of view. I understand your point of view but simply do not agree.

Vanity
Apr 2nd, 2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Scotso
Can't you just ban this person? They're obviously not here to talk about tennis, just to spread their propoganda.

That is so true, Scott. I looked up some of b_fans old posts and many of them were so anti-canadian.... in one, he's bragging about how his "country" (actually province) has better tv coverage than the rest of Canada, in another he is stressing that players like Marie-Eve Pelletier are from Quebec. Can we say "pitiful"? lmao! ;)

angele87
Apr 2nd, 2002, 08:20 PM
Can I just ask a simple question... what good would it do if Quebec was it's own country instead of a province of Canada?

barabanschikova_fan
Apr 2nd, 2002, 08:45 PM
Simple question but very long to explain so i will just name few one.

We could have our laws who reflect our "valeurs" not valeurs of another nation. So they could be expressive and not regulative for a better expression of our identity.

We could have relations with others country to promote our country and our culture and make deals with others countries for our needs and not the needs of others.

We will have the choice to invest money in our need and not give our money to others provinces who always been in difficulties with the years. On that point, do you know that Québec lose 50 millions each WEEK because of the canadian governement because of the "déficit fiscal"(sorry i don't know the word in englsih). Those numbers are the result of long months of work from an independant study group and was lead by a former ministre of the liberal party. Can you imagine 50 millions each weeks!!!

Plus, it will finally stop the assimilation tentative of the canadian governement on our territory. When they will understand that we are not interrested in the red maple leaf? 81% of their budget for all the country for the promotion of the Canada day goes in Québec, how do we call that?

Plus, an independant Québec could make a real place for the autochtones. They are a nation and they need more place in our society.

This is only few reasons. Many more could be added but i don't think this is the best place. Sorry i miss time too, end of session at university.

angele87
Apr 2nd, 2002, 09:14 PM
Well for the part of the economy, I don't think seperating would really help anything because sure Quebec would keep the money it makes off natural ressources and everything else but then what happens if a certain county (i assume you have those in Quebec) started losing money to help other countys in Quebec and decided that they wanted to be their own country.

Which Canadian laws aren't you happy with?

I think the relationship with other countries for trade and other things might become difficult for Quebec because mostly everything would have to come through Canada first since Quebec is just smack in the middle of Canada. Also trade would Canada would be difficult because the relations between Quebec and Canada would probably not be very good...

And the culture and everything would still be the same in Quebec because I'm sure Quebec wouldn't magically turn into an All-French country

barabanschikova_fan
Apr 2nd, 2002, 09:59 PM
I'm bnot agree with C-20, and i totally disagree like all members of the Assemblée nationale about the law who will put kids in jails because here in Québec we have our methods and they work well so why change. With that law we will have no choice than put kids in jails. I don't like the canadian Constitution in general because there is no place for québec in that Constitution. Also because they express regulative rules and not expressive rules. And also because we never signed the constitution!!! By the way it will be the 20th aniversary in 2 days of one of the worst moment of the history for Canada, moment were they forced Québec to be added to the canadian Constitution without the approvement of Québec. Why did they forced us but did not forced Manitoba and Newfoundland to sign Meech?

I'm sure Quebec wouldn't magically turn into an All-French country

Did i ever said that we want a french only country? I repeat we will never act in the same way than Canada in that domain. Here we know how it important to have own culture who reflect our valeurs.

Québec would be a Republic not a federation so no counties

If you think that the relation between Canada-Québec would be difficult is it my fault? Is it our fault? We want a souveraineté-partenariat, if they don't want to negociate with us because they are frustrated that we left a difficult mariage is it my fault?

For the moment we lose 50 millions each weeks because of the canadian governement and that's a fact. 50 millions in my country each week could help a lot you don't think?

angele87
Apr 2nd, 2002, 10:24 PM
I was just reading over all the posts and somebody asked if I (or maybe the question wasn't directed at me) hated all people from Quebec and the answer to that question would be no. I have a lot of friends and family that live in Quebec and I don't dislike people from Quebec in general, only those who are anti-Canadian and by being pro-separation, you are anti-canadian... and i don't agree with what you said about laws and pretty much everything else so I'm just gonna not come back to this thread and just enjoy my culture and language without whining!!

barabanschikova_fan
Apr 2nd, 2002, 11:02 PM
Ok Angele that's a good idea. I only asked for my flag and look how it turn. I think my ideologie is ok because it's made with democratic method so i don't know why you hate me and 60% of the french population here. But that's your opinion and i respect that. If this is the prize to pay to have a different ideologie than canadians, i'm ready to pay it because i really think this is the best future for my nation.

Anyway i shake your hand Angele, do you want to shake mine? Even your prime minister and mine shake their hand when they met even if they are not agree.

By the way, i have a teacher at university who is from Toronto, juif, and anglophone, hardly speak french even and live here since 2 years i think. Do you know what? He is a separatist. How can you explain that? Maybe he understand more how different Québec really are.

By the way i still wait for others guys to answer my question few posts before.

angele87
Apr 3rd, 2002, 01:01 AM
I never said that I hated you or anybody else... I said dislike :p but maybe what I should of said is dislike your ideas... anyways enough of that

Jonathan (is that your name :confused: ) I'm willing to shake your hand and agree to disagree! :wavey:

Aurevoir a ce thread!
Sincerely,

Angèle!!

barabanschikova_fan
Apr 3rd, 2002, 07:36 PM
so come on guys i'm still waiting for your answers.:confused:

Fingon
Apr 4th, 2002, 02:45 AM
Well, I am not technically a Canadian yet (just an immigrant) and have lived in this country only 3 1/2 years.

I haven't been to Quebec, I don't speak french and most of the info I have about the whole issue come from the english press and english canadians.

I say that to make clear that I don't really have a good knowledge of the whole issue and I certainly haven't been able to listen to both parts in the debate.

However, I do have an idea on this, and that comes from my observation of what is Ontario (english Canada, ROC?). And reading the "english" press trying to separete the bullshit from reality.

Correction, I've been to Quebec but only to Dull, interesting, it's next to Ottawa, Ottawa is in Ontario and you have signs in English and French everywhere, not only in government buildings but everywhere. It seems everyone in Ottawa speaks both languages. In Dull, at least the part of the city I saw, it isn't the same, only french, not english signs. They are only a few blocks away, interesting isn't it?

I know Montreal is pretty much multicultural and bilingual, of course, if the engine of the Quebec's economy and they don't want even more investors to flee away, but I know (and this not from the press but from friend that have been there) that the situation is very different for example in Quebec City where many people won't even bother to answer if you speak to them in English (even though the understand perfectly well). In fact, the person that told me that was born in Argentina like me, and he told me "you better speak spanish instead of English if you go to Quebec City, you will be better treated".

I have seen that it was clear in the last election that the parti-quebecois was re-elected because it was a good administration, but the majority of quebecers didn't want to separate. Bouchard himself admitted that (unless they want to say his English wasn't good and he really didn't mean it) but he also said they need to work towards creating the right conditions for separation, duh!, people don't want to separate and they want to spend money to convince them, how are they following the people's wishes?

Quebec wants to be independent, but wants a preferent treatement in commercial relations with Canada and the US. They want to use the Canadian Dollar, they want free access to Canada, and they want the Canadian government to assume the whole national debt. When Bouchard said that Canada took more from Quebec than it gave Quebec, somebody proposed to cut the cashflows in both directions, Quebec doesn't contritube with taxes and doesn't receive any help from Ottawa, they didn't bother to answer that.

I know when I was doing the paper work to immigrate to Canada, I was required to speak one of Canada's official languages, English or French would be the same, unless.. I wanted to live in Quebec in which case I was required to speak French, ahem... that's official btw.

I know that under the language laws, all business are required to have their signs in French and to speak french first. If the employee in a store realizes that someone speaks english and to save time just speaks english without trying french first, they can be heavely fined.

Many companies have left Quebec because of the language laws. the main inverstor in Canada is the United States and they are not willing to force their managers to learn french, so, they move elsewhere, even the Bank of Montreal has it's head offices in Toronto, do they like the weather better?

well, enough, I guess I said many things everyone knows much better than me, and I am sure that Barabanschikova_fan will have en explanation to everything, like bad translations or that I haven't been to Quebec, etc.

:wavey:

barabanschikova_fan
Apr 4th, 2002, 03:10 PM
Nice to see a new one in the debate.

First of all this is not Dull but Hull. Let me explain why this is only in french in Hull. We have laws here and for the protection of the french they decided to put 2/3 french 1/3 english. We call that law the law 101. At our Assemblée nationale, all members are agree with that law. even the federalist members. Ottawa is bilingual only because this is the capital. I see no one speaking french at Toronto.

About the immigration, provinces have a part of this juridiction and the governement ask to speak french to move here because if you don't speak it, the governement will have to pay to stay at home because you will find no job here because a person need to speak french to find a job. But they also need to speak english now... That's why some of us want a law 101+.But that's another debate.

I know that under the language laws, all business are required to have their signs in French and to speak french first. If the employee in a store realizes that someone speaks english and to save time just speaks english without trying french first, they can be heavely fined.

They can be heavely fined only if the customer is not happy. When a employe at the restaurant speak to me in english i'm sorry but i ask to talk to the boss. I want to be serv in my own language! I'M at home so this is normal i think. If they are not able to serv me in french i leave and will go at another restaurant where they will serv me in my language.

the situation is very different for example in Quebec City where many people won't even bother to answer if you speak to them in English (even though the understand perfectly well)

LOL Do you know what? Québec city is the more touristic city in Québec. tourists= english speaker so don't make me laugh.

Our governement want the souveraineté-association that's why they still want to use the canadian money and few others things. If Canada don't want the association that's okay with me!!! We want a bigger place for Québec so we have no choice.

Bank of montreal have their head office in toronto and not montreal because toronto in the place where all banks are and also because the bank of montreal is not very popular in québec. We have the Caisse populaire here who is a coop and most of québécois use their service.

60% of the french speaker want the separation. The other 40%, most of them still want a reform of the canadian federation and they believe it will happen. I don't believe anymore, that's why i'm a separatist. I'm a member of the parti québécois because i have no choice. They are the only parti who gave us the most of chance to finally have a country where people will be respected and be traited fair, english or french.

P.S: I'm still waiting POE!!! give me a sign i asked you few questions. I know they are tough one top admit but i just want to read you on that even if i already know the answer:P I understand you cannot said that high... i would be shy too.

Poe
Apr 5th, 2002, 12:58 AM
P.S: I'm still waiting POE!!! give me a sign i asked you few questions. I know they are tough one top admit but i just want to read you on that even if i already know the answer:P I understand you cannot said that high... i would be shy too.

after writing my longest post in here on the previous page completely dismantling all your arguments and stating my entire viewpoint on the whole issue, you were not even able to address it or provide a counter argument

so please don't start goading me into dismantling each new weak argument that you come up with in this thread, because i'm not reading it anymore

for somebody who was complaining that all he did was ask for a flag you sure are eager for this argument to continue aren't you? I address everything that you say to me, yet you are not able to do the same.. which means i'm talking to a wall, and i have far better things to do with my time

if you want to continue this debate you can do so with the rest of the people in this thread who are willing to do so, but I'm finished.

barabanschikova_fan
Apr 5th, 2002, 03:13 AM
ask me questions and i will answer you. Kind of sad you did not but anyway i think everyone gave their opinion. I gave mine and it was not accepted and respected by you but this is not a surprise for me. Anyway, i asked to have my flag and i cannot but i still manage to have my flag under my username.