View Full Version : Few Americans punished for torturing Iraqis

Jan 25th, 2005, 01:34 PM
NOTE: Where so the insuregents come from? As you read this, realize that it was reported in Iraq, and the rest of the Arb world, as torturing Iraqis was our policy all along. And further, that any trials were for show, and few if any would result in punishment. And of course, anyone who is released after this tells their story to their families and friends.

Few inquiries led to punishment, documents show
By R. Jeffrey Smith and Josh White
http://media.msnbc.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/sourceWaPost.gif Updated: 12:00 a.m. ET Jan. 25, 2005

Army personnel have admitted to beating or threatening to kill Iraqi detainees and stealing money from Iraqi civilians but have not been charged with criminal conduct, according to newly released Army documents.

Only a handful of the 54 investigations of alleged detainee abuse and other illicit activities detailed in the documents led to recommended penalties as severe as a court-martial or discharge from military service. Most led to administrative fines or simply withered because investigators could not find victims or evidence.
The documents, which date from mid-2003 to mid-2004 and were obtained by five nongovernmental organizations through a joint lawsuit, suggest that the pursuit of military justice in Iraq has been hampered by the investigators' closure of many cases without reaching a determination of likely innocence or guilt.

Poor record-keeping hampers probes
In the case of Hadi Abdul Hasson, an Iraqi who died in U.S. custody at a prison near the southern port of Umm Qasr, Army criminal investigators were unable to locate meaningful prison or military records on his capture or fate.

"Due to inadequate recordkeeping, this office could only estimate that Mr. Hasson possibly died between April-September 2003," and so the case was closed, the Army's Criminal Investigation Command said in October. Hasson's death was evidently not noticed until mid-2004, when disclosures of detainee abuses at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad prompted a review of records and sparked many new abuse allegations by Iraqis.

The newly released reports detail allegations similar to those that surrounded the documented abuse at Abu Ghraib such as beatings with rifle butts, prolonged hooding, sodomy, electric shocks, stressful shackling, and the repeated withholding of clothing and food but they also encompass alleged offenses at military prisons and checkpoints elsewhere in Iraq. The elite soldiers with Army Special Forces and other Special Operations personnel stationed in various parts of Iraq were also implicated in some of the abuse but did not admit involvement, according to the documents.

The reports, drawn directly from Army case files, also explain for the first time exactly how many of the abuse allegations were investigated and adjudicated.

A January 2004 probe, for example, found that nine soldiers in the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment based at Fort Carson, Colo., and deployed in Iraq "were possibly involved in a criminal conspiracy to rob Iraqi citizens of currency" at traffic-control points. Two members of the unit affirmed the plan in sworn statements and named its participants. But the investigation was terminated after the commander "indicated an intent to take action amounting to less than a court proceeding," the report said.

ACLU: Investigations 'woefully inadequate'
Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union, which published the documents on its Web site, said they showed that the investigations of torture and abuse "have been woefully inadequate" and, in some cases, a whitewash. Army spokesman Dov Schwartz responded that "the Army has aggressively investigated all credible allegations of detainee abuse and held soldiers accountable for their actions."

Schwartz said that more than 300 criminal investigations so far have resulted in some type of action against more than 100 military personnel. The 54 investigations outlined in the released documents are among those 300.

Some of the cases involved petty crimes as well as assaults. In one case, a platoon of infantry troops beat Iraqis and stole money, calling it a "Robin Hood tax," to support a fund used to buy soda, food, beer, whiskey and gin for the platoon. In another case, two soldiers burst into a civilian's home, stating they were looking for weapons, and stole cash and jewelry. In another, two other soldiers pushed an Iraqi man into the back of their five-ton truck, drove him to an isolated area, stole his watch and money, and punched him in the face.

Many of the participants in such crimes were referred for courts-martial, while those who participated in beatings or abuse generally received lesser punishments, according to the documents.

'We all gave a hooah'
An officer in the 20th Field Artillery Battalion deployed in Taji, for example, was given an unspecified nonjudicial punishment and fined $2,500 after he admitted to threatening to kill an Iraqi, firing a pistol next to the man's head, placing the man's head in a barrel, and watching as members of his unit pummeled the man's chest and face.

One of those who administered the beating told investigators that the officer "had given us a talk about how some circumstances bring about extra force." Another said the officer told them after it was over: "This night stays within" the unit. "We all gave a hooah" before parting, the soldier said. The document indicates that four soldiers received suspended nonjudicial punishments and small fines, while a decision on a fifth soldier was pending.

Another of the cases described in the documents involved an unnamed service member's allegations in late 2003 of "war crimes" at a Baghdad holding facility known as Camp Red. The member complained that Iraqis were made to sit for hours or stand on a brick in the hot sun, hooded and with their hands bound; that they were frequently pushed and kicked; and that soldiers would deliberately drive an armored vehicle next to where they were seated to "spook" them.

An officer at the camp told investigators that such treatment was needed to keep Iraqis from "acting up." The case was closed because "serious injury" was not proved, according to the document.

Elderly woman alleges sexual abuse
Another case involved a 73-year-old Iraqi woman who was captured by members of the Delta Force special unit and alleged that she was robbed of money and jewels before being confined for days without food or water all in an effort to force her to give the location of her husband and son. Delta Force's Task Force 20 was assigned to capture senior Iraqi officials.

She said she was also stripped and humiliated by a man who "straddled her . . . and attempted to ride her like a horse" before hitting her with a stick and placing it in her anus. The case, which attracted the attention of senior Iraqi officials and led to an inquiry by an unnamed member of the White House staff, was closed without a conclusion.

The military eventually released her and reimbursed her "for all property and damage" after her complaints, the report said; details of the Delta Force investigation remain classified.

In several cases, Army investigators concluded that the allegations were without merit. An inquiry begun after a Washington Post article detailed the shooting death of a Baghdad man by U.S. forces last summer ruled that the shooting was a "justifiable homicide."

Sajid Kadhim Bori Bawi's family had said that U.S. soldiers stormed into their home, accused him of crimes against coalition forces and dragged him into a room away from other family members. He was shot five times after yelling out.

Army investigators ruled that a soldier shot Bawi while "engaged in a struggle" with him, during which Bawi allegedly tried to grab a soldier's M-4 carbine rifle. They ruled that a soldier fired his pistol repeatedly at him "to nullify the threat to himself and the other soldiers." Military lawyers ruled it a "good shoot."

Cases dropped for lack of 'sufficient' evidence
More often, Army investigators closed their cases after finding insufficient "evidence to prove or disprove the allegations." That was their conclusion after a detainee in Mosul reported that a Navy SEAL team beat him for two to three days and threatened his family after taking him into custody in May. "They took me back to a small room and they left me for two days without food and drinks and the bag was over my head and my hands were cuffed and then they threw cold water and ice and they banging me on the wall once," the detainee, whose name was blacked out on the reports, told an interpreter during the investigation.

An Air Force captain who examined the detainee after the alleged abuse reported the man had bruises on his shoulders. A military lawyer issued an opinion on July 6 that the evidence was inconclusive, ending the investigation of aggravated assault and cruelty and maltreatment.

Another detainee said he was whisked off a Baghdad street by two U.S. soldiers, blindfolded and taken to an unknown location, where he was beaten by wooden sticks, sodomized and given electric shocks during an interrogation session. He was also one of three detainees who said in separate cases that he was forced to drink urine.

"They made me take a picture with the captain giving me a hundred-dollar bill," the detainee said. "They then threatened to show the picture to the Iraqis and say I was working with them."

Medical examinations corroborated the injuries to the detainee's wrists and noted injuries to his anus. Military lawyers ruled that the "investigation did not further diminish the integrity or credibility of [the] allegation," according to a report dated Aug. 5.

Jan 25th, 2005, 07:35 PM
Its sad when justice gets brusged aside or given a dose of double standards.
The soldiers who comited these crimes (Theres no sweeter way of looking at this situation) are US Citizens too, and more importantly they are state servants who should be setting an example. They shouldnt be given lighter justice as opposed to say a private US CItizen who go's and tortures strangers.

(We have this problem in our military justice too, some times their punished properly (Usualy the worsed offenders that get the most attention to satisfy the publics demands for justice, the rest..sometime its swept under the carpet, but 99% of the time if they are found guilty they are dishonorably discharged, albeit with out further disapline.)

But then again we we'rnt at the court hearings or privy to the investigation so ...

Lord Nelson
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:21 PM
Yeah, and too few Iraqis are punished for hostage taking & executions. We did manage to get al Zarqawi's main henchman but Iraqi backers are hiding in other Arab regimes. But yeah, Americans who commit crimes should be punished but once again so should Iraqis.

Jan 25th, 2005, 11:29 PM
watch how the republican militant bastard devil worshippers come in here and skirt the issue. Dont you know yet that they dont care what happens to Iraqi civillians who have nothing to do with the insurgency?

They want to win this war no matter how many innocents are killed or humiliated or robbed.

Lord Nelson
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:44 PM
watch how the republican militant bastard devil worshippers come in here and skirt the issue. Dont you know yet that they dont care what happens to Iraqi civillians who have nothing to do with the insurgency?

They want to win this war no matter how many innocents are killed or humiliated or robbed.

I assume that you are referring to me. Well I'm not a republican since I'm not American. I don't worship the devil since I don't believe in it. I don't believe in a God either. But yeah, I do believe that this war is just. Sometimes war is a necessary evil like U.S. participation in WW2 and the Korean war both which were started by democrats. I'm presuming that you are a democrat just as you were presuming I was something else. Hey, I also want to see the kurds get their right as well as the shiites. Serves the Arab sunnites right. Do you have any more words of wisdom for me? You sure know how to entertain people. Atta boy! :drool:

Jan 26th, 2005, 02:13 AM
How is it just that innnocent people are killed? So when those peoples' family members want justice for their family who were taken from them what happens?


So what do they do? they get the justice they can by getting revenge and joining the insurgency

Jan 26th, 2005, 04:36 AM
watch how the republican militant bastard devil worshippers come in here and skirt the issue. Dont you know yet that they dont care what happens to Iraqi civillians who have nothing to do with the insurgency?

They want to win this war no matter how many innocents are killed or humiliated or robbed.

Republican, no one posted here is republican. And If I were American Id vote democrat. And I know volcana is democrat. So where are these republiuvcans you speak of??? Amidst the nirvana of crack addiction? Seriously, where?

And again no one but your over active imagination is flouting the issue exept you! LMAO. The issue her is the lack of justice in the court cases at hand not the greater Iraqi situation. And everyone here is unanimous on the fact thats justice has been done short. Every one here thinks the soldiers in question should be punished if it were prosoners or innocents their victems. So whos flouting? Dont ever do law, you wont make it past the first semester with such ways of seeing things (Or not seeing things as it may be). Its called empathy, even though you may not agree, at least back it up or quit the name calling and hateful generalizations.

Honney, you arnt religious, you have no right to call any one devil worshipers. Its either Jews your being anti semetic against in which case i will take extreme offence and you will be sorry, Or its Xtians which you are implying due to Republican make up or what ever. And if i were one of them id be extremly offended at you calling my g-d a devil. Either way you may wana look at that statement again and see how it can be taken. Its open for offence.

So what do they do? they get the justice they can by getting revenge and joining the insurgency-That makes their CRIME "understandable" to their motives, not excusable. If your beloved was killed by terrorism, you would not be saying "Oh well thsts nice". Its easy for you to say half a world away, your not really in a position either way to support insurgency/ terror if thats what your doing in your comfortable surrounds wherever they may be. Fight them or be killed by them. Join them and kill with them. Either choice you choose then perhaps you will be in a position to support terror.
Also remember what most of these insurgents are ultimately fighting for. Its not simply revenge. And remember their tactics which all too often target innocent Iraqi people (This logic of your nips itself in the but as those who have families killed by the terrorists should be allowed to Join pro american forces and go murder the families of those who murdered theirs? You know we have a saying here "A son will not bear inequity for his fathers crimes".)

Murder is murder and two wrongs dont make a right which is what you seem to be saying by calling murder "justice".

Jan 26th, 2005, 05:38 AM
Torture in Iraq Still Routine, Report Says
By Doug Struck
The Washington Post

Tuesday 25 January 2005

Detainees beaten, hung by wrists, shocked by security forces, rights group finds.

BAGHDAD - Twenty months after Saddam Hussein's government was toppled and its torture chambers unlocked, Iraqis are again being routinely beaten, hung by their wrists and shocked with electrical wires, according to a report by a human rights organization.

Iraqi police, jailers and intelligence agents, many of them holding the same jobs they had under Hussein, are "committing systematic torture and other abuses" of detainees, Human Rights Watch said in a report to be released Tuesday.

Legal safeguards are being ignored, political opponents are targeted for arrest, and the government of interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi "appears to be actively taking part, or is at least complicit, in these grave violations of fundamental human rights," the report concludes.

A spokesman for Allawi declined to comment, Monday and said "I will put this report on the prime minister's desk tomorrow to see if he has any reaction."

Ibrahim Jafari, an interim vice president, said in an interview that security forces needed to be tougher to combat the campaign of violence by opponents of the election.

"I think the security people are not arresting enough and are releasing them too quickly," Jafari said. "And many of the security people are cooperating with the criminals. I think we have to put security as our priority."

The Human Rights Watch report acknowledged that Iraq was "in the throes of a significant insurgency" in which 1,300 police officers and thousands of civilians were killed in the last four months of 2004. But it argued that "no government, not Saddam Hussein's, not the occupying powers and not the Iraqi Interim Government, can justify ill-treatment of persons in custody in the name of security."

The report was based on interviews with 90 current and former detainees in Iraq conducted between July and October last year, many of them interviewed when they were brought to court for initial proceedings. Of those, 72 said they were "tortured or ill-treated," the report says. It recounts numerous individual cases of torture, and says the victims often had fresh scars or bruises.

"I was beaten with cables and suspended by my hands tied behind my back," Dhia Fawzi Shaid, 30, a resident of Baghdad, told the human rights investigators, according to the report. "I saw young men there lying on the floor while police [stepped] on their heads with boots. It was worse than Saddam's regime."

Another, identified in the report as Ali Rashid Abbadi, 21, said he was arrested by police after the bombing of a liquor store on July 11. "The police came and started hitting us," he told Human Rights Watch. "They shouted at us to confess. . . . We were blindfolded and our hands were tied behind our backs. They poured cold water over me and applied electric shocks to my genitals."

Abbadi was later released by a judge for lack of evidence, the report says.

The report deals with the conduct of Iraqi authorities but not that of U.S. military forces at three U.S.-run detention facilities in Iraq, including Abu Ghraib. The three sites currently hold about 9,000 prisoners.

The Washington Post contacted several people whose cases were included in the report. They declined to speak to a reporter, saying they feared retaliation by police.

"The majority of detainees . . . stated that torture and ill-treatment during the initial period was commonplace" in jails run by the Interior Ministry, the report says. The abuses included "routine beatings . . . using cables, [rubber] hosepipes and metal rods . . . kicking, slapping and punching, prolonged suspension from the wrists," as well as electric shocks to the genitals and long periods spent blindfolded and handcuffed.

Hania Mufti, the Baghdad director of Human Rights Watch and chief author of the report, said she did not find examples of abuses that were on a par with the worst atrocities committed under Hussein's rule, such as mock executions, disfigurement with acid or sexual assaults on family members in front of prisoners. But in many other respects, she said, treatment of those swept up by police had changed little.

"Many of the same people who worked in Saddam's time are still doing those jobs today. So there is a continuity of personnel and of mind-set," she said in an interview. "I think the Iraqi people themselves thought there was going to be a different system. Every day, they are finding it is not so different."

The report also says authorities made a mockery of legal safeguards. People said they were arrested without warrants and held without charges for days, weeks or months. Police officials ignored summonses from judges, and judges who became too demanding of authorities were removed from their jobs.

"The message has not gone out from the government that torture will not be tolerated," Mufti said. And foreign advisers hired to assist the Iraqi police have failed to object, she said.

The report relates "the only known case in which U.S. forces intervened to stop detainee abuse." It said scouts from an Oregon Army National Guard unit saw Iraqi guards at an Interior Ministry compound abusing detainees on June 29. A soldier took pictures through his rifle scope of detainees who were blindfolded and bound.

According to an account related in the report by Capt. Jarrell Southal of the National Guard, his soldiers entered the compound and found bound prisoners "writhing in pain" and complaining of lack of water. They gave water to the men, moved them out of the sun and then disarmed the Iraqi police. But when the Oregon soldiers radioed up their chain of command for instructions, they were ordered to "return the prisoners to the Iraqi authorities and leave the detention yard."

Jan 26th, 2005, 05:47 AM

Jan 26th, 2005, 05:48 AM
Apparently a girl from Norton, VA is one of them being punished for this.... at least that's what I heard. :o

Jan 26th, 2005, 07:11 AM
Apparently a girl from Norton, VA is one of them being punished for this.... at least that's what I heard. :o

this is not her I hope :p


Jan 26th, 2005, 07:19 AM
this is not her I hope :p


I have no idea what she looks like hear she's some butchy.... At least that's what my uncle said. :o

Jan 26th, 2005, 07:24 AM
I have no idea what she looks like hear she's some butchy.... At least that's what my uncle said. :o

well i would gather a military girl is not going to look like say....Hingis :D

Jan 26th, 2005, 07:47 AM
well i would gather a military girl is not going to look like say....Hingis :D

How's Hingis and her new boyfriend?

WHy the hell is it, everytime her tennis starts up, some new man is in her life? :rolleyes: