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View Full Version : What's your stance on capital punishment?


Mariangelina
Dec 21st, 2004, 09:59 PM
I already made this thread, but I deleted it because I screwed up making the poll.

Anyway, I'm opposed to it, for reasons both religious (do we have the right to decide another human's fate like that?) and secular. (It makes no sense, like a mom hitting her kid for hitting his brother. It's basically saying killing is wrong, unless you're big and powerful enough.)

I'm interested to hear the reasons for people's opinions on this issue, and see if there's any correlation between this and their country's use of it. (I'm proud to live in a country that hasn't used it during my lifetime.)

Vote away. Please don't fight too much.

Edit: Okay, I screwed up again, so no poll. Please just say whether you oppose it or not, and whether or not your country uses it.

Martian Willow
Dec 21st, 2004, 11:04 PM
As well as the two reasons Mariangelina gave, which of course I agree with, it's also a fact that no country has an infallible justice system, which makes executing innocent people inevitable, regardless of bolox like DNA testing. Fortunately we don't have it anymore (in Britain), and probably never will. :)

GBFH
Dec 22nd, 2004, 12:05 AM
support

live in texas...we're our own country, as it were.

Randy H
Dec 22nd, 2004, 12:11 AM
I'm against it myself - I can totally understand how victims and relatives of victims would be all for it, and if I were in their position I can't say with certainty that I wouldn't feel that same rage too. However, looking at it from a a more logical perspective than an emotional one, I also do not see many benefits to the choice. It costs an absolute fortune to keep them on death row (more than keeping them for life in prison), and it just seems too easy an ending. I'd rather they wake up every morning and have to look at themselves knowing what they did, and face up to what they did by seeing the life they have chosen for themselves.

WorldWar24
Dec 22nd, 2004, 12:22 AM
I don't support, simply coz most people who get cap. punishment, really deserved IMHO life sentence instead, coz I find it a lot worse to deal with. I'd rather get killed than spending my life in jail, so in a way, I think killing some criminals is something too good for them, which they don't deserve

Barrie_Dude
Dec 22nd, 2004, 03:20 AM
support

live in texas...we're our own country, as it were.Actually I am in support of it within some strict guidlines.... Capital crimes only and an automatic appeal and a judicial review

Volcana
Dec 22nd, 2004, 03:25 AM
I'm against it. Consider well over a hundred people on death row in the USA alone have been exonerated AFTER being condemned to death in the last decade, we KNOW innocent people are killed by the state.

In a subsistence society with barely the means to support itself, life inprisonment may simply be too expensive. Every hand may be needed to raise food, and there's still starvation in winter. How COULD you then justify giving that food to violent felons? However, the USA is a LONG way from that.

Cuckoo
Dec 22nd, 2004, 03:27 AM
Against, But hey I dont mind paying 70,000 bucks out of tax payers money to keep a criminal rotting in jail.

Barrie_Dude
Dec 22nd, 2004, 03:28 AM
I'm against it. Consider well over a hundred people on death row in the USA alone have been exonerated AFTER being condemned to death in the last decade, we KNOW innocent people are killed by the state.

In a subsistence society with barely the means to support itself, life inprisonment may simply be too expensive. Every hand may be needed to raise food, and there's still starvation in winter. How COULD you then justify giving that food to violent felons? However, the USA is a LONG way from that.This is a big reason why I want a vigirous appeal process and a judicial review process... to avoid this

the jamierbelyea
Dec 22nd, 2004, 03:31 AM
A country has to decide whether or not their legal system is a punishment system or a correctional system. It has and should be one or the other. In the United States it a correctional system to reform criminals and to put them back into society. With that as the base of our entire legal system, it can't really be right in my opinion.

Cuckoo
Dec 22nd, 2004, 03:32 AM
The cost of that is as expensive as keeping someone in jail for life.

Thats a large issue, then again here in NZ, they get everything in prison on a silver platter, TV's, Radio, Writing Equipment, it's Ludacrous.

Barrie_Dude
Dec 22nd, 2004, 03:34 AM
But how can we be 100% sure (and when I say 100%, it's 100%, not 99,9999999999%) it would never happen?

The cost of that is as expensive as keeping someone in jail for life.Well, it is worth the cost to get it right..... if we cannot, than it is not worth doing

Cuckoo
Dec 22nd, 2004, 05:24 AM
I agree with you on that... Some people actually prefer to be in a prison instead of being outside. :rolleyes: There's too much entertainment in prison, there shouldn't be anything else than books.

Exactly, Some Prisoners come out of prison better then going on, they find it much easier to live in prison then on the outside, so they re offend to be sentenced back there. Some like the Institution. Which is the total oppisite of what a Prison is, Your meant to come out of it not wanting to go back there, but since they get 3 course meals, A relativley simple but nice bed and even some of the lighter prisoners get radios, TV's even bloody Internet, I mean if you have all these luxuries as opposed what you did have in open society, who wants to go back out into it??

The Victorian Justice has it's merits, but it also has it's con's and it's only the countries corrections departments etc who can atleast modify to suit the needs and demands of society.

backhanddtl4
Dec 22nd, 2004, 05:52 AM
support

live in texas...we're our own country, as it were.


I wish you were your own country. Then the United States might vote in a Democratic President sometime!

Volcana
Dec 22nd, 2004, 06:20 AM
Exactly, Some Prisoners come out of prison better then going on, they find it much easier to live in prison then on the outside, so they re offend to be sentenced back there. Some like the Institution. Which is the total oppisite of what a Prison is, Your meant to come out of it not wanting to go back there, but since they get 3 course meals, A relativley simple but nice bed and even some of the lighter prisoners get radios, TV's even bloody Internet, I mean if you have all these luxuries as opposed what you did have in open society, who wants to go back out into it??99.9% of the people who are imprisoned.

YOu're missing the point. You life in prison is both REGULATED and LIMITED. You DON'T go play handball, or read a book whenever you want. You don't GET to go to the bookstore. You do NOT have privacy. You mail is read, your phone calls are listened in on. And of course, there is always the pleasant possibility of being raped.

Youdon't have a chance to 'earn a living'. You CAN'T move to a bigger house, or get a better car, or go to the beach. For sure you aren't going to meet somone, settle down and have a family. And while you can arrange to be alone, you can't control how long you're alone.

'Freedom' and 'Privacy' seem like mere abstractions, til you don;t have them and WON'T have them. There IS a tiny percent of the population so disturbed that having their life completely controlled by outsiders is preferable to having to make their own decisions. But outside of them, NOBODY wants to give up control of their life.

"Sluggy"
Dec 22nd, 2004, 08:53 AM
I think we should kill the worst of the worst. the ones that even depraved criminals despise, we should get rid of. the one who rapes women and kills them, serial rapist killers... no trial, summary execution. NO really, give them a swift trial and a speedy death... no costly court procedures and burning of the good peoples money. there is no way back for some, kill the beast, and send their ashes to mars.

Halardfan
Dec 22nd, 2004, 09:36 AM
Capital Punishment is maybe the one issue where I lean to thr right politically, at least by European standards.

In reality Im against how it is applied pretty much anywhere. Countless innocents are killed under most of the processes used, it is unacceptable. I would vote against it.

But In THEORY I think there is a case for a strictly applied, rarely used death penalty.

Here is my case:

To use the death penalty the case should have to meet the following criteria...

a) Be a particularly violent or calculated crime or multiple murders.

b) A case where guilt is beyond ANY doubt.

Lethal injection only should be allowed. The sentence should be carried out in quick order, once the prisoner is seen to meet the criteria.

My arguement for this actually comes from the view that I DON'T believe in God. I think this life once its over is over, and that there is no afterlife to punish the guilty. So we have to do it here. So if someone commits the awful crime Ive set out and their guilt is beyond question then there is no reason why they live and breathe while their victim/s died so horribly, and their relatives suffer for the rest of their lives.

Under the system I advocate, the death penalty couldn't be wrongly used as the standard of proof of guilt required is 100%. So one of the key argeument against the death penalty is redunant.

Cuckoo
Dec 22nd, 2004, 09:55 AM
YOu're missing the point. You life in prison is both REGULATED and LIMITED. You DON'T go play handball, or read a book whenever you want. You don't GET to go to the bookstore. You do NOT have privacy. You mail is read, your phone calls are listened in on. And of course, there is always the pleasant possibility of being raped.

So ? The NZ Justice System is different from the US Justice System, Being Institutionalised here means getting fucking everything in the comfort of your own cell which has Gib Bording, Heating, bedding and electronics That saying even Maximum Security Prisons hold a degree of privacy and freedom, and to the general opinion it holds to much, We feel that where to soft on the approach to how Prisoners should be treated, what rights they getwhile serving time.

I know this is talking about Capital Punishment, but I dont care.

Youdon't have a chance to 'earn a living'.You CAN'T move to a bigger house, or get a better car, or go to the beach. For sure you aren't going to meet somone, settle down and have a family. And while you can arrange to be alone, you can't control how long you're alone.

Your aboding in a Prison, ofcourse your not going to fucking get a car, or go to the beach, Come on...thats just obvious, but earning a living in prison overhere can be interepreted, We do have a system where Offenders can participate in Study, Correspondence, all of which I think can attribute to them being rehibilitated and realsed, Jobs such as gardening, cleaning that prisoners can partake in. There not earning a living, but they are earning somesort of life while they are in there, and if they are able to participate then I think that is beneficial for them to be rehibilitated. However when luxuries and amenities become to greater then you have a problem, you have a tribulation because then it starts to become more of a Paradise then a Prison

'Freedom' and 'Privacy' seem like mere abstractions, til you don;t have them and WON'T have them. There IS a tiny percent of the population so disturbed that having their life completely controlled by outsiders is preferable to having to make their own decisions. But outside of them, NOBODY wants to give up control of their life.

Thats what I said, They are institutionalised, they commit a crime, They are sent to a "prison" where they find that living inside a institutionalised system is far more viable, far safer, then living of the end of society. They find comfort and security, something which they may not have found or had enough on on the outside.

I can't say much for the States Penetary System, I dont know much about it, Only that it is far more gruesome, more isolated and more regemented then overhear, something which our corrections department should take note of,

Prison is not a Heaven or Paradise, and when you have Prisoners re-offending because they feel the need to be back in a Institution where they think it provides them with greater serenity and security, that there time in there is far mroe manageable then in society, there is something that needs to be looked at.

Cuckoo
Dec 22nd, 2004, 10:01 AM
no costly court procedures and burning of the good peoples money.

I wish there was a way where it could be so easily, the amount of tax payers Money that goes into Court Trials, Procedures and keeping Prisoners in Prison is horrendous

and send their ashes to mars.

No because then the "good peoples money" will be going to Rocket Launches all the time and come out more expensive the court hearings and trials.

Im not in agreeance with having them killed, I don't believe that 2 Wrongs dont make a right in this case, even though they did take a innocent life from this world, Serial Killers, Murderers, Heinous Criminals should really rot in a basic cell with basic Sanitory Conditions and Basic Human Rights for the rest of their life, I dont think they deserve the Tax Payers Help rehibiliating someone who has commited such a heinous act, lighter crimes arw a definite option.

"Sluggy"
Dec 22nd, 2004, 10:06 AM
It is a misperception that "innocent" people are killed. IN laws school they set these people straight who believe that. when they say they are "innocnet" it means that they might not meet the entire legal standard for being put to death. But in practically all the cases, they are pieces of shit, murderers etc, but perhaps not entirely premeditated.

tennislover
Dec 22nd, 2004, 12:30 PM
totally against. it's a crime against humanity and civilization.....