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View Full Version : Should Turkey be part of the European Union?


Belgium = Best
Dec 18th, 2004, 01:23 PM
What do you think? :)

Elske
Dec 18th, 2004, 01:31 PM
No!!

turt
Dec 18th, 2004, 01:50 PM
No!!You have to "shout" your opinion? Why don't you explain instead :)

minboy
Dec 18th, 2004, 01:58 PM
No
All they want is being part of the "common market", they don't give a **** about the political aspect of the UE. Turkey in EU means the end of its global political project.

( same about UK, Scandinavian countries and Poland btw )

Come-on-kim
Dec 18th, 2004, 01:59 PM
For the time being, no :)

Same opinion as minboy (for once :p ;))

Kart
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:06 PM
Yep.

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:07 PM
I voted yes. I don't understand why people say no so quickly like Minboy for instance. If his point of view would be a reason to ask countries to leave the EU we would have few countries left. Europe should unite as much as possible. Turkey can form a natural gateway to Asia.

minboy
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:13 PM
I voted yes. I don't understand why people say no so quickly like Minboy for instance. If his point of view would be a reason to ask countries to leave the EU we would have few countries left.I'd rather have a very integrated UE with very few coutries than a non-integrated UE with a lot of them. The UE is going crap now, ever since the entrance of the UK actually, which only goal has been to slow things down since the beginning. ( nothing against brits, but if you don't believe in the european project, just get out )

And i didn't say "no" quickly like you may think. At first i was 100% for turkey in the UE, but then i started to think a little more, and came to this conclusion

Europe should unite as much as possibleTrue, but the more coutries you let in, the less united it will be

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:18 PM
I'd rather have a very integrated UE with very few coutries than a non-integrated UE with a lot of them. The UE is going crap now, ever since the entrance of the UK actually, which only goal has been to slow things down since the beginning. ( nothing against brits, but if you don't believe in the european project, just get out )


True, but the more coutries you let in, the less unite it will be
I agree that the union is becoming big right now, which makes it more difficult to make decisions. The union should also be more democratic with a stronger role for the European parliament. But Europe needs to form a front to stand up against the US and Asia. Making the EU smaller doesn't help that.

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:20 PM
I always thought Turkey was part of Asia :confused:

minboy
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:23 PM
I agree that the union is becoming big right now, which makes it more difficult to make decisions. The union should also be more democratic with a stronger role for the European parliament. But Europe needs to form a front to stand up against the US and Asia. Making the EU smaller doesn't help that.
The only way to stANd up against the US and Asia is to become one , and it's not the way the UE is heading. Where is our common foreign policy? Where is our common army?? Nowhere , and i bet we'll never have those. You just can't have those with 26 delegations around the table.

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:30 PM
The only way to stANd up against the US and Asia is to become one , and it's not the way the UE is heading. Where is our common foreign policy? Where is our common army?? Nowhere , and i bet we'll never have those. You just can't have those with 26 delegations around the table.
Well, we agree on the goal then. I have a little more faith we can reach something that resembles a united front. There are good developments like the new position for Javier Solana, which is a step towards one foreign policy. Changes will come slow though. Look how long it took to get even this far. We should continue to work on the project.

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:31 PM
I always thought Turkey was part of Asia :confused:
Turkey has both an Asian and a European part.

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:40 PM
hmmm....with statements like a "natural gateway to Asia...and stance against Asia & US-shows the ulterior motives of the EU and Europeans with their anti-US sentiments- yes? The EU 'project' as someone called it frightens me. Maybe it's just me. Its interesting the European sentiment on this board against the US being a superpower, (or is the problem that it is the only superpower) but yet it looks like the EU's ulterior motives are the same or could shape up to be even worse. I shudder at the thought of European domination again. Next few years will be quite interesting- history does repeat itself.


Moby- your sentiments sound reactive/reactionary...
No, it has nothing to do with Anti-american sentiments. It's about creating a level playing field, so there's no domination from any direction, be it US, Europe or Asia.

The sentence natural gateway to Asia also referred to something else. It is often said Europe and Asia are different in culture and religion for instance. Turkey could help bridge that gap as it combines both worlds.

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:48 PM
YES

Turkey is in Europe, and every country that is in Europe CAN be part of European Union. Turkey is a democratic country, even more than some countries in EU. In Turkey women could vote in 1934, and in Belgium, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Switzerland it was not before 1944-45.

When I hear that Turkey is a muslim country and that Europe it is catholic, BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA IS IN EUROPE AND 2 MILLION PEOPLE HERE ARE MUSLIMS. Their is 6 millions muslims in France, 5 million in Germany. Come on people. Europe is not only catholic.

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:49 PM
well, when i said anti-american sentiment, i meant that Euros come on here criticising US when Europeans real problem is that US is the only power- you stated it, it really has nothing to do with not liking US's foreign policy etc. or any real concern for other developing nations etc, it's that Europeans want in on that influence and power- nothing really wrong with that but don't be hypocrites about it.
Well, your statement makes quite clear the US simply can't handle criticism well. They just want people to go along with them. It would not be bad to have others stand up and take their own position, so there's more balance. Some of us actually care about developing countries unlike the US, who like spending more cash on their defence industry.

minboy
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:50 PM
hmmm....with statements like a "natural gateway to Asia...and stance against Asia & US-shows the ulterior motives of the EU and Europeans with their anti-US sentiments- yes?
No, no at all, you don't understand it all. Having the will the concurrence the us on both economical ( mmmh, that's already done ) and political side doesn't mean being anti-US. Maybe that's the american 'black or white' vision of the world, but that's not ours.

The EU 'project' as someone called it frightens me. Maybe it's just me. What's frightening. The idea of not being the sole superpower??

Its interesting the European sentiment on this board against the US being a superpower, (or is the problem that it is the only superpower) but yet it looks like the EU's ulterior motives are the same or could shape up to be even worse.
Don't worry. We are not willing to invade countries for oil...... We will not attack Texas.

I shudder at the thought of European domination again. Next few years will be quite interesting- history does repeat itself. Rendez-vous in 40 years, when there will be no oil left, thus making the US dollar a very common device. No dollar, no domination. And yes history repeat itself : empires that seemed to be there forever crash as soon as they emerged[/QUOTE]
Moby- your sentiments sound reactive/reactionary...
I guess that's me. Well, I'm not reactionnary, i just want to believe in a strong european union, and that's not the way it's going

minboy
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:55 PM
YES

Turkey is in Europe, and every country that is in Europe CAN be part of European Union. Turkey is a democratic country, even more than some countries in EU. In Turkey women could vote in 1934, and in Belgium, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Switzerland it was not before 1944-45.

When I hear that Turkey is a muslim country and that Europe it is catholic, BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA IS IN EUROPE AND 2 MILLION PEOPLE HERE ARE MUSLIMS. Their is 6 millions muslims in France, 5 million in Germany. Come on people. Europe is not only catholic.It's not about human rights or religion. Those are culturals facts, and it's all about the political side. And Turkey obviously does not want a strong political Europe.
( btw, if you're going on the democratic thing, Turkey has yet to recognize the armenian genocide. Imagine Germany not recognizing the Holocaust..., and Amnesty International is very critical of the way human rights are (not) being respected in Turkey )

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 02:59 PM
Turkey has both an Asian and a European part.
I know that!
Just being sarcastic :angel:

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 03:06 PM
I know that!
Just being sarcastic :angel:
Ah, I see, missed the sarcasm there, but that's ok.

SilK
Dec 18th, 2004, 03:35 PM
Only a little part of it is in Europe :shrug:
Start your own goddamn Union :tape:

;)

Jennifer's wife
Dec 18th, 2004, 03:46 PM
the european union sucks! why should each individual culture and country be homogonised into one? we dont like the united states but suddenly we all want to be the united states of europe with a single currency and laws that are the same for each country?! what next, the european bureu of investigation? the star spangled european banner? hey, do we have a european national anthem yet?

the whole thing is a pile of shit IMO.

oh and turkey shouldnt join because only a small part of turkey resembles europe the rest is very eastern in its attitude on life. letting women show their face in public might be a start in proving how european they want to be. my dad lives there, ive been, not going back :scared:

CooCooCachoo
Dec 18th, 2004, 03:49 PM
It's not a truly European country, so I don't think so.

Monica_Rules
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:10 PM
No

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:10 PM
And what is a truly European country for you ???

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:19 PM
And what is a truly European country for you ???
Certainly not an Asian country ;)

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:20 PM
Certainly not an Asian country ;)
But Turkey is ALSO in Europe and in Asia. :)

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:28 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041218/capt.ank11412181636.turkey_eu_ank114.jpghttp://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041218/capt.ist11512181356.turkey_eu_ist115.jpg

MERHABA:hearts: :hearts:

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:30 PM
But Turkey is ALSO in Europe and in Asia. :)
Istanbul and that's all! And not even the whole of it!
And where should it end :confused:
There are limits :)

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:36 PM
A European country is a country which is in Europe, period. Turkey has a European part (even if it's small), so it can be recognised as a European country. They obviously want to be European, or they wouldn't have applied for membership. If they felt so different, they would have another choice, even if the EU gives benefits, which it obviously does.

I do agree there are limits, but they are geographical. That is why I never understood why Israel always takes part in the Eurovision song contest. That is a country in Asia. That they are not being accepted there, is their problem.

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:41 PM
I really don't understand why people are so against Turkey. I thought that we live in 21st century and that differences of religion, culture are not important but now I realise that it is a big deal. If Turkey is a problem, so Bosnia and Herzegovina is a problem. ?? Their should be limits, why ?? When Turkey is in some part in Europe why, I do understand that it is different but I didn't think that it will be such a big deal. Turkey is a democratic, free, beautiful, rich in culture, history, economicly, humain rights a great country.

Drimal
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:48 PM
No, because it's not an European country, only one little part to Istanbul, the rest is Asian territory. Why should Turkey become a member of the European Union if it belongs not completely to Europe. ;)

In a few years they will than take Russia in the European Union too and thus an inhabitant of Wladivostok will be in the Europen Union! :tape: :tape:

No, honestly where will this all go? The men in Brussel should not give a membership to so many countries!

schris
Dec 18th, 2004, 04:55 PM
yes

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:02 PM
I really don't understand why people are so against Turkey. I thought that we live in 21st century and that differences of religion, culture are not important but now I realise that it is a big deal. If Turkey is a problem, so Bosnia and Herzegovina is a problem. ?? Their should be limits, why ?? When Turkey is in some part in Europe why, I do understand that it is different but I didn't think that it will be such a big deal. Turkey is a democratic, free, beautiful, rich in culture, history, economicly, humain rights a great country.
Human rights :haha:

Elske
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:06 PM
If Turkey is a problem, so Bosnia and Herzegovina is a problem. ?? well it is to me yeah..


humain rights oh please.. :rolleyes:

Josh
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:07 PM
Yes.

We must realise that today the EU is a divided union anyway. The main goals of the Union are to bring prosperity and peace in Europe. It's certainly not about creating one nation, a United States of Europe. That's only a dream far away in the future at this point and it may even not happen ever again. Maybe if we can bring peace, prosperity and stability in Europe we might start working towards better integration.
Turkey, as far as I can see is a valid candidate for EU membership. Economically the country has strong ties in Europe and on top of that it also shares a common history with Europe. If some say that Turkey is culturally not European because it has a large agricultural population mainly on the Asian part then those people should also take a look at certain areas in Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Poland, Lithuania, etc...

minboy
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:11 PM
I really don't understand why people are so against Turkey. I thought that we live in 21st century and that differences of religion, culture are not important but now I realise that it is a big deal. If Turkey is a problem, so Bosnia and Herzegovina is a problem. ?? Their should be limits, why ?? When Turkey is in some part in Europe why, I do understand that it is different but I didn't think that it will be such a big deal. Turkey is a democratic, free, beautiful, rich in culture, history, economicly, humain rights a great country.The UE tries to make the people feel european, sharing an europen identity based on common culture ( they even created institutions for that ), and then they want to integrate a country who has a totally diferent culture -that doesn't make sense at all. So, yes, culture is very important, that is what defines european feeling. ( personnally, i don't care about it at all, the reason i voted "no" is the turkish lack of willing a strong political union ) About Bosnia, well, that's 3 million people, very different from turkey's 70 millions.
And, yes, there should be limits, because that's how a concept is defined. If there's no limits, there is no european concept.
And don't tell me that they have a rich economy, turkey's economy is only 28% of the average of the members -east members included. They don't even have running water for god's sake( in the coutryside anyway, and even in cities, you can't drink it. My stomach still remembers ). And I'm not even talking about the human rights -check Amnesty International reports

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:11 PM
Yes.

We must realise that today the EU is a divided union anyway. The main goals of the Union are to bring prosperity and peace in Europe. It's certainly not about creating one nation, a United States of Europe. That's only a dream far away in the future at this point and it may even not happen ever again. Maybe if we can bring peace, prosperity and stability in Europe we might start working towards better integration.
Turkey, as far as I can see is a valid candidate for EU membership. Economically the country has strong ties in Europe and on top of that it also shares a common history with Europe. If some say that Turkey is culturally not European because it has a large agricultural population mainly on the Asian part then those people should also take a look at certain areas in Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Poland, Lithuania, etc...
I don't think a woman is considered the same way in Greece, Poland etc as in Turkey :confused:

Josh
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:16 PM
I don't think a woman is considered the same way in Greece, Poland etc :confused:

Well the way of thinking of people in rural areas in Turkey, Poland, Greece, Romania, etc... is very similar. Ask them what they think of women's rights, gays, foreigners, abortion etc... and you will get the same answer in many cases.

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:24 PM
well it is to me yeah..


oh please.. :rolleyes:
:cuckoo: :cuckoo: Well this is your problem. And i think you have one.

geewhiz
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:26 PM
Yes. With the reforms taking place, Turkey will meet the criteria used to determine whether a country is eligible to join the EU. It has always been a Western-looking country, it's aspirations lie towards the West rather than the East, it already has economic ties with the EU and it is politically compatible. There are issues about culture and religion, but Turkey lies closer to some of the existing EU states than it does to the Middle Eastern countries in those areas.

There should, however, be a referendum asking the Turkish people if they want to join the EU. It's not only the EU that has to say yes.

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:31 PM
I will stop here because we have really DIIFERENT way of thinking, and THANK GOD, because I realy don't see why some of you are so against this. Your arguments are not that intelligent, ( it is in Asia, they are different ) COME ON. Where do you live ?? In Europe as I do but we have diiferent opinions. And don't forget negotiations starts on 3 october 2005, and Turkey will be part of EU.

minboy
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:33 PM
Yes.

We must realise that today the EU is a divided union anyway. The main goals of the Union are to bring prosperity and peace in Europe. It's certainly not about creating one nation, a United States of Europe. That's only a dream far away in the future at this point and it may even not happen ever again. Maybe if we can bring peace, prosperity and stability in Europe we might start working towards better integration.
Turkey, as far as I can see is a valid candidate for EU membership. Economically the country has strong ties in Europe and on top of that it also shares a common history with Europe. If some say that Turkey is culturally not European because it has a large agricultural population mainly on the Asian part then those people should also take a look at certain areas in Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Poland, Lithuania, etc...
Josh, welcome in the 21st century.
Prosperity, peace.......Those are the goals defined in 1958. There has been the Amsterdam treaty since then, when the name changed from EEC to EU, so it is NOW a political project, not just economic.

And don't compare bulgarian, polish, romanian and lithuanian culture to turkish culture. Last time i check, bulgaria, poland and lithuana were slavian countries, with slavian culture, thus european culture ( romania being latin )

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:38 PM
I will stop here because we have really DIIFERENT way of thinking, and THANK GOD, because I realy don't see why some of you are so against this. Your arguments are not that intelligent, ( it is in Asia, they are different ) COME ON. Where do you live ?? In Europe as I do but we have diiferent opinions. And don't forget negotiations starts on 3 october 2005, and Turkey will be part of EU.
At least we have arguments :p

Stamp Paid
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:38 PM
Wow, you guys aren't big on multiculturalism, huh?

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:41 PM
How old are you Ph51 ???

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:43 PM
How old are you Ph51 ???
Older and wiser than you...reading your Beckham threads :)

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:48 PM
Older and wiser than you...reading your Beckham threads :)
Wiser:lol: you just prove me that you are not :lol: :wavey:

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:51 PM
I have just got a bed reputation for giving my opinion. So childish

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:53 PM
I have just got a bed reputation for giving my opinion. So childish
Not from me :angel:

-Ph51-
Dec 18th, 2004, 05:59 PM
I have just got a bed reputation for giving my opinion. So childish
But you gave me one :rolleyes:
Who's childisch :confused:

Seles_Beckham
Dec 18th, 2004, 06:03 PM
Not for your opinion because you can have yours, but for the fact that you are insulting me.


LET"S JUST STOP HERE. WE ARE NOT GOING TO DECIDE IF TURKEY WILL BE IN EU OR NOT.

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 06:28 PM
I will stop here because we have really DIIFERENT way of thinking, and THANK GOD, because I realy don't see why some of you are so against this. Your arguments are not that intelligent, ( it is in Asia, they are different ) COME ON. Where do you live ?? In Europe as I do but we have diiferent opinions. And don't forget negotiations starts on 3 october 2005, and Turkey will be part of EU.
Negotiations start in 3 October 2005, but that doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have to work out. They still have to meet the criteria.

propi
Dec 18th, 2004, 06:59 PM
Why not??
If Turkey fulfills all the requests at least it should be given the chance :)

Elske
Dec 18th, 2004, 06:59 PM
I will stop here because we have really DIIFERENT way of thinking, and THANK GOD, because I realy don't see why some of you are so against this. Your arguments are not that intelligent, ( it is in Asia, they are different ) COME ON. Where do you live ?? In Europe as I do but we have diiferent opinions. And don't forget negotiations starts on 3 october 2005, and Turkey will be part of EU. and what makes you so sure about that?

Wow, you guys aren't big on multiculturalism, huh? not really, no...

Older and wiser than you...reading your Beckham threads :) :lol: :tape:

I have just got a bed reputation for giving my opinion. So childish :wavey: :angel:

tfannis
Dec 18th, 2004, 07:03 PM
yes :)

Why not??
If Turkey fulfills all the requests at least it should be given the chance :)
That's what I was thinking ;)

Scotso
Dec 18th, 2004, 07:05 PM
Yes...

I think a lot of people here are letting their racism interfere with good judgement.

Josh
Dec 18th, 2004, 07:38 PM
Josh, welcome in the 21st century.
Prosperity, peace.......Those are the goals defined in 1958. There has been the Amsterdam treaty since then, when the name changed from EEC to EU, so it is NOW a political project, not just economic.

And don't compare bulgarian, polish, romanian and lithuanian culture to turkish culture. Last time i check, bulgaria, poland and lithuana were slavian countries, with slavian culture, thus european culture ( romania being latin )

Newsflash : the EU is far from being a political union. As I said, Europe has the intention to become one but opinions among EU member states are just to different. The only thing the EU is successful in at this moment is economical issues : creating a big internal market, labour laws, taxes, etc... Economical cooperation was also the founding idea for the Union. And yes there have been steps taken to come to a political consensus but so far this has always been inferior to the economical development.

About culture : I said that the way of thinking in rural areas of much of Eastern Europe is much the same as in rural areas in Turkey. The modern Turkish Republic founded by Kemal Atatürk has always looked at Europe, it's institutions, laws, internal organisations has been modelled to that of the great European states of the time. It's not because a state or ethnic group does not have its roots in Europe that it cannot become European. The Bulgars are closely related to the Turks and also came from Central Asia, yet noone questions their "Europeaness". Turkey has gone through a lot of reforms the past century and it has clearly showed it's intention of being part of Europe so I say we should give them that chance.

Gallofa
Dec 18th, 2004, 07:54 PM
Sure. If and when they meet the criteria. They have made a big effort already, they just need to go the final length.

I do feel they are rather different from us, Spaniards, but so is the rest of the EU ;) Europe should be a communion of cultures and religions where we can all live peacefully... Actually, we would benefit from having more etnic backgrounds in Europe, to redeem ourselves from some lingering bouts of racism.

Yes. With the reforms taking place, Turkey will meet the criteria used to determine whether a country is eligible to join the EU. It has always been a Western-looking country, it's aspirations lie towards the West rather than the East, it already has economic ties with the EU and it is politically compatible. There are issues about culture and religion, but Turkey lies closer to some of the existing EU states than it does to the Middle Eastern countries in those areas.

There should, however, be a referendum asking the Turkish people if they want to join the EU. It's not only the EU that has to say yes. :lol: Knew you'd say that... the real question is... should the UK join the EU? ;)

Hayato
Dec 18th, 2004, 08:06 PM
Yes, part of Turkey is in europe :)

propi
Dec 18th, 2004, 08:11 PM
I do feel they are rather different from us, Spaniards, but so is the rest of the EU ;)That's because we're made of different stuff ;) We're simply unique :p :angel:

James
Dec 18th, 2004, 08:14 PM
That's because we're made of different stuff ;) We're simply unique :p :angel:
And that's why we like you. :lol:

Josh
Dec 18th, 2004, 08:18 PM
And that's why we like you. :lol:

And why we all want to go to Valencia. :D ;)

Belgium = Best
Dec 18th, 2004, 08:52 PM
Yes, part of Turkey is in europe :)Yes 5% ;)

DevilishAttitude
Dec 18th, 2004, 08:53 PM
Undecided ;)

They deserve a chance but there different religion and ways could cause problems :rolleyes:

buddyholly
Dec 18th, 2004, 09:57 PM
Europe should unite as much as possible. Turkey can form a natural gateway to Asia.

Except that 95% of Turkey IS in Asia. If Turkey gets in, what's next - Myanmar?

buddyholly
Dec 18th, 2004, 10:00 PM
I have just got a bed reputation for giving my opinion. So childish

You should be happy, your precious Beckham also has a reputation in bed.

minboy
Dec 18th, 2004, 10:06 PM
Newsflash : the EU is far from being a political union. As I said, Europe has the intention to become one but opinions among EU member states are just to different. The only thing the EU is successful in at this moment is economical issues : creating a big internal market, labour laws, taxes, etc... Economical cooperation was also the founding idea for the Union. And yes there have been steps taken to come to a political consensus but so far this has always been inferior to the economical development. Go read the text of the amsterdam treaty. You 'll find out its goal was to turn into a political union, thus the change in name : from "european economic community" to "european union". Is it working? Hell no, and that's exactly my point : it can't work with too many members with as many different political backgrounds. Actually we seem to agree on facts, just not on the project. If you want EU to be only an economic market, fine. But i'd like it to be something bigger, and that project is fading and fading and fading

About culture : I said that the way of thinking in rural areas of much of Eastern Europe is much the same as in rural areas in Turkey. The modern Turkish Republic founded by Kemal Atatürk has always looked at Europe, it's institutions, laws, internal organisations has been modelled to that of the great European states of the time. It's not because a state or ethnic group does not have its roots in Europe that it cannot become European. The Bulgars are closely related to the Turks and also came from Central Asia, yet noone questions their "Europeaness". Turkey has gone through a lot of reforms the past century and it has clearly showed it's intention of being part of Europe so I say we should give them that chance.As i said already, i don't give a **** about different cultures, that's not what i voted "no". Still, if the way of thinking is "similar" ( not really true but i'll give you that ) in rural areas in Turkey and Bulgaria, it's because of rural and mainly agricultural, but then you can find those kind of similarities everywhere in the world. And, as the goal of the UE is prosperity, as you said yourself, those similarities are going to vanish, since it will lead to the end of those rural-agricultural societies.
Yes, turkEY is in europe, just like the UK, yet i really would like the UK to get out of the UE, because their presence condamn the political project "dans l'oeuf", just like integrating Turkey would do, because they don't give a **** about EU, all they want is the common market.

Actually the more i'm reading this thread, the more i realize people don't have a clue what the EU is about. Arguments like "it's in europe" "not it's not" "it's too much a different culture" " no, they share european culture" are WAY out of line. It's all about politics, kids....

and why are non european members voting anyway?

Martian Willow
Dec 18th, 2004, 10:10 PM
I don't really care whether it's in Europe or not. They just need to fix a few things before we let them join. :)

minboy
Dec 18th, 2004, 10:12 PM
Yes...

I think a lot of people here are letting their racism interfere with good judgement.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

tennislover
Dec 18th, 2004, 10:14 PM
yes yes yes

-Em-
Dec 18th, 2004, 10:17 PM
It's too early for them.

flyingmachine
Dec 18th, 2004, 10:21 PM
Yes

Stamp Paid
Dec 19th, 2004, 01:15 AM
Can a non-white person ever be a "true" European?

Scotso
Dec 19th, 2004, 01:34 AM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You just confirmed it.

James
Dec 19th, 2004, 06:50 AM
Except that 95% of Turkey IS in Europe. If Turkey gets in, what's next - Myanmar?
You've got your figures wrong. Only about 5% of Turkey is officially in Europe. I've explained earlier in this thread it's mainly a geographical thing. Turkey is partially in Europe, so can qualify as a member, if it meets the criteria. Myanmar is not in Europe, so will never qualify.

James
Dec 19th, 2004, 06:57 AM
can't handle crticism:confused: I am not pro- choices of US when it comes to foreign policy, it just amazes me that Europeans criticize US when your motives aren't any better. Colonization, Global Imperialism, all the same to me. I clump all you (US & Europe ) in the same boat really- need I remind you of the effects that are still rampant today because of European colonization and it seems to me that the goal as Josh seems to think isn't peace & prosperity in Europe but to race US to the finish line of power & control of world's resources. I can get into some stuff here about France et all and Sudan and oil and choices of not doing anything with what is going on there merely because of oil- Moby , you don't have to invade Texas when your hands are all over Oil in other places. Please, it ain't about balance of power- in your myopic view it might be ...Yes, call me a skeptic and paranoid but the effects of European domination and the future of it doesn't sit well with me when I remember the past. My only hope is that the brown and black people of this world will get in on the rat race -unite and stop the madness:) I know, I sound a bit crazy right now- sorry I don't trust Europeans- I'm reading some stuff on crusades right now, maybe that's why;) I do hope though that I am wrong and it is only about the prosperity of Europe and maintaining balance but I doubt it...the past won't let me think it to be so..i can pray though.

It's funny, the one thing that I have learned (comments made by Europeans- and they are all over this thread) from posting on this board is that the only difference I see in US and Europe, is that US/Americans show they racist, imperialist hand more than Europeans- which one you think is more dangerous??

Moby, i agree with you, the US time is coming to a halt...history will indeed repeat itself, thus my attitude towards the EU. At least you are the most frank here about what it is, well hope to be. Do you guys really think that power shifted will look any different in Europe- what precedent do you have to believe that??
Of course both Europe and the US have a shady past. That goes without saying. All the more reason why there shouldn't be one power dominating and there should be more balance. A strong Europe is required for that, to stand up against the US and Asia. Hope we can also add Africa to that list soon, so fair trade will finally mean something again. Maybe it is just my ideal, but I have a feeling more and more people are considering peace and prosperity far more important than anything else.

Tenisci
Dec 19th, 2004, 08:18 AM
heyy friends. the great majority of the people think really wrongly. i wont say anybody about these things. everybody is independent to say what they want. Turkey should be the member. but if it is not that's not a problem. we will be still happy withoue EU. but the most important thing is that The EU shouldnt lie to us.
also dont you remember the great majority of Europe was ours.

DONT FORGET !!!!

gentenaire
Dec 19th, 2004, 08:53 AM
Yes

Thanks to the EU, Turkey is reforming. I think that's a very good thing. Right now, Turkey may not be ready, but the talks have just started, they won't be able to join until they've met with all the criteria. And once they have, I don't see why they shouldn't join. Illegal immigration will stop when the countries the immigrants hail from are prosperous as well. WIth the EU setting strict rules Turkey must comply with, Turkey is changing, Turkey is modernising and as a result, Turks won't be as keen to leave their country like they are now.

Evren, that last sentence is not going to convince people to vote yes, quite the contrary. If it's the domination of Europe you're after, I'm afraid the doors will remain firmly shut!

Tenisci
Dec 19th, 2004, 09:49 AM
yes you are right gentenaire but people donmt see us as a part of the EU. for that reason i said that :(

OUT!
Dec 19th, 2004, 09:56 AM
No, b/c gay rights are appalling there. Very homophobic country.

OUT!
Dec 19th, 2004, 10:01 AM
Wow, you guys aren't big on multiculturalism, huh?Oh puhleeze. There is no way on God's earth that your country would allow a predominantly Muslim US state to join your country's union, so don't preach. My concern is human rights.

njitjana
Dec 19th, 2004, 10:29 AM
I think Turkey in Europe for a long time

Josh
Dec 19th, 2004, 10:42 AM
No, b/c gay rights are appalling there. Very homophobic country.

So are Slovakia, Poland, Lithuania and almost every other new member state as well. It didn't stop them from joining. And it must be said that the mentality in those countries and Turkey is changing but unfortunately you can't expect that to change overnight.

Manu79
Dec 19th, 2004, 10:50 AM
Yes :p

KV
Dec 19th, 2004, 12:44 PM
Just doing the reading. From what I've read
Most convincing/intelligent poster : Josh
Most tolerant: Propri
Tine, your post was very good too.

OUT!
Dec 19th, 2004, 01:21 PM
Can a non-white person ever be a "true" European?Yes. Can an African American ever be considered fully "American" by his/her white counterparts? :rolleyes:

Xian
Dec 19th, 2004, 03:09 PM
NO
Dont have much time to explain that
Not now maybe in 20 years when they start to rethink attitude against women and human rights

Kart
Dec 19th, 2004, 03:15 PM
Can a non-white person ever be a "true" European?
:confused:

What does that have to do with anything ?

Scotso
Dec 19th, 2004, 03:20 PM
Turkey has a very positive women and human rights records compared to most other countries in the world. As someone here said, they had universal suffrage before many of the "western" nations.

I think, Kart, that he was saying that the EU is a white-only club. It's well known that many minorities (like Arabs) are treated very poorly in Europe.

Stamp Paid
Dec 19th, 2004, 03:29 PM
No, b/c gay rights are appalling there. Very homophobic country.
Wouldn't Turkey have to legislate and provide proof of enforcement of EU laws on gay rights before even entering the union? Give Turkey a chance.

Stamp Paid
Dec 19th, 2004, 03:31 PM
Oh puhleeze. There is no way on God's earth that your country would allow a predominantly Muslim US state to join your country's union, so don't preach. My concern is human rights.
As you can see from my flag, I am from Rwanda and well, you should know my nations human rights record....:lol::lol:

No seriously, my country is not in a close union with ANY nation, and doesnt feel the need to do sp, whether the nation is Christian, Buddhist, or Atheist. So your analogy is flawed and thus, invalid.

minboy
Dec 19th, 2004, 03:54 PM
You just confirmed it.
How so?:confused:

minboy
Dec 19th, 2004, 03:59 PM
heyy friends. the great majority of the people think really wrongly. i wont say anybody about these things. everybody is independent to say what they want. Turkey should be the member. but if it is not that's not a problem. we will be still happy withoue EU. but the most important thing is that The EU shouldnt lie to us.
also dont you remember the great majority of Europe was ours.

DONT FORGET !!!!
The history of the ottoman empire in Europe is the history of a colonialist power. Those kinds of arguments won't help you, quite the contrary.

minboy
Dec 19th, 2004, 04:03 PM
Turkey has a very positive women and human rights records compared to most other countries in the world. As someone here said, they had universal suffrage before many of the "western" nations.

.Weeks ago they were THAT close to crimiminalise women's adultery.( sure the UE perspective forbid them to do so, but the mere fact they thought about criminalising it tells it all. ) And ask the kurdish and armenian minorities what they think of the human rights in Turkey.

Hayato
Dec 19th, 2004, 07:04 PM
Yes 5% ;)

And that means it is in europe, so it should be part of European Union, DUH :p

Seles_Beckham
Dec 19th, 2004, 07:12 PM
Because Turkey is in Europe even with 5 % ot the territory, Turkey can be part of Europena Union, Marroco or Israel can't because they are not in Europe and Turkey is .

minboy
Dec 19th, 2004, 07:28 PM
And that means it is in europe, so it should be part of European Union, DUH :pIt's not a question of territory, kid. The UE is not a territorial union, it began as an economical union and since 1995 it's also a political union. And that's where the problem lies. (Otherwise Switzerland, Norway, ... would already be in the UE )

btw, selES-beckham, Morocco is planning to officialy ask his integration in the years to come, there's already been some talks between moroccan representatives an the UE

geewhiz
Dec 19th, 2004, 08:28 PM
It's not a question of territory, kid. The UE is not a territorial union, it began as an economical union and since 1995 it's also a political union. And that's where the problem lies. (Otherwise Switzerland, Norway, ... would already be in the UE )

btw, selES-beckham, Morocco is planning to officialy ask his integration in the years to come, there's already been some talks between moroccan representatives an the UE

The EU is an economic and political union, but it's also a territorial one. Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU because they don't want to be because of the reforms they would have to make. If they made the reforms then they would get in because they lie within the territory of Europe. On the other hand, Ecuador could reform all it wanted and it would not get in.

Morocco have had talks before and they have been turned down. They have never even made it onto the official talks list whereas Turkey has been on it several times. The only way Morocco would get in is through their claims on the territory of Gibralter and at the moment Gibralter is not a full member of the EU.

minboy
Dec 19th, 2004, 08:52 PM
The EU is an economic and political union, but it's also a territorial one. Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU because they don't want to be because of the reforms they would have to make. If they made the reforms then they would get in because they lie within the territory of Europe. On the other hand, Ecuador could reform all it wanted and it would not get in.

Morocco have had talks before and they have been turned down. They have never even made it onto the official talks list whereas Turkey has been on it several times. The only way Morocco would get in is through their claims on the territory of Gibralter and at the moment Gibralter is not a full member of the EU.Territory is the scope of the EU, but it's not its goal, neither its project. The reason i'm saying it's not a question of territory is because off all those people who argues about " it's in europe, so they should enter" ( Ranadalara, sels_beckham and others) "no it's not, so they should not", and that's not the question. If the sole reason to enter the EU was being on european territory, the EU would consists of 35 states and more by now.
Yes, Morocco has been turned down.....for now. The day they 'll reach the criterias for being candidate, morocco will be on the official list of EU wannabee. The mere fact that there's been talks is enough to say that territory is not the ultimate reason of the existence of the EU, only his historical origin

Tylane
Dec 19th, 2004, 09:34 PM
NO !!!!!!!

Turkey is not in Europe.
If they're europeean, so why not Morroco, Liban etc..? :rolleyes:

And Turkey is much more populated than France, England etc...they should have too much power in europeean decisions (it's proportionnal to numbers of unhabiatnts), so no.

Scotso
Dec 19th, 2004, 10:08 PM
Why was one of my posts here deleted?

I find it amazing that the same Europeans who so often criticize Americans for being "backwards" are here behaving the same way towards Turkey as they feel Americans behave to the world.

turt
Dec 20th, 2004, 10:53 AM
Why was one of my posts here deleted?

I find it amazing that the same Europeans who so often criticize Americans for being "backwards" are here behaving the same way towards Turkey as they feel Americans behave to the world.
Are you sure it's "the same Europeans"?

rand
Dec 20th, 2004, 11:53 AM
Turkey has both an Asian and a European part.
yup 3% in europe :o
why don't we allow russia in too then? :devil:

tennislover
Dec 20th, 2004, 01:04 PM
Can a non-white person ever be a "true" European?

yes they can, IMHO

James
Dec 20th, 2004, 01:31 PM
yup 3% in europe :o
why don't we allow russia in too then? :devil:
Well, Russia sooner than Morocco at least. Morocco simply has no European part.

Josh
Dec 20th, 2004, 01:57 PM
Russia has no intentions of joining EU anyway so discussing whether or not we should allow them in is irrelevant anyway.

Svennovitch
Dec 20th, 2004, 02:37 PM
If Cyprus can join, Turkey should too. Cyprus lays even further away from Brussels than Turkey.

rand
Dec 20th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Russia has no intentions of joining EU anyway so discussing whether or not we should allow them in is irrelevant anyway.
th problem is exactly that...short-time interest....it's not because russia isn't interested NOW that they won't in the future...and I'd like to see WHEN they will (more a when than an if really), and we integrated turkey, how we will explain to them that turkey was allowed ("because they had 3 percent of their territory on europe"), but Russia is not ok, even though they have more percentage of european ground.....
by then it will be too late...

Josh
Dec 20th, 2004, 02:47 PM
Russia has no interest in joining EU, not now, not tomorrow, not ever.

rand
Dec 20th, 2004, 02:49 PM
Russia has no interest in joining EU, not now, not tomorrow, not ever.
o yes, they have....economically the EU would be a blessing....

alfajeffster
Dec 20th, 2004, 02:52 PM
What do you think? :)
Only if I can have mashed potatos, gravy, cranberry sauce, and pumpkin pie with it...:lol:

Stamp Paid
Dec 20th, 2004, 03:03 PM
Well, Russia sooner than Morocco at least. Morocco simply has no European part.
i.e. No white people. :)

Josh
Dec 20th, 2004, 03:03 PM
o yes, they have....economically the EU would be a blessing....

No they haven't and even if they would have, declining Turkey on the geographical facts will only work in Russia's favour. You can't ban Turkey from joining the Union by saying that it will open the doors for Russia as well. Russia can ask for membership whenever it wants, whether or not Turkey can join.

Come-on-kim
Dec 20th, 2004, 06:08 PM
Anyway, how can Turkey be part of the EU if it doesn't recognize Cyprus???

James
Dec 20th, 2004, 06:12 PM
i.e. No white people. :)
You haven't been following this thread well obviously or you wouldn't have posted this.

Brαm
Dec 20th, 2004, 07:39 PM
i.e. No white people. :)
Someone's obsessed with races :rolleyes:

Not everything is about racism. Besides, Turkish people are white.

daniela86
Dec 20th, 2004, 07:50 PM
NO !!!!!!!

Turkey is much more populated than France, England etc...they should have too much power in europeean decisions (it's proportionnal to numbers of unhabitants) .

i agree 100%

and also because they don't recognize cyprus, a memeber of e. u.

wayitis
Dec 20th, 2004, 08:56 PM
YES


When I hear that Turkey is a muslim country and that Europe it is catholic, BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA IS IN EUROPE AND 2 MILLION PEOPLE HERE ARE MUSLIMS. Their is 6 millions muslims in France, 5 million in Germany. Come on people. Europe is not only catholic.

not that it's that important anyway, eventually Turkey will join the EU because Brussels's policy is one of appeasement and rapid expansion for easy geopolitical effect, but it strikes me as odd that you keep on calling on the Bosnian example as a successful muslim integration... ethnically , muslim Bosnians are basically slavics, predominantly Serbs and Croats, who historically decided to embrace the Islamic way in order to have advantages and favours from the occupying Ottomans... like most other religions, Islam found its way into Bosnian territory through repression and convenience, and the history of Turkish occupation of the Balcans is one of blood and grievance...

Hayato
Dec 20th, 2004, 09:13 PM
It's not a question of territory, kid. The UE is not a territorial union, it began as an economical union and since 1995 it's also a political union. And that's where the problem lies. (Otherwise Switzerland, Norway, ... would already be in the UE )

btw, selES-beckham, Morocco is planning to officialy ask his integration in the years to come, there's already been some talks between moroccan representatives an the UE


O.K, i've been there and it's a mixture of European and Asian. Istanbul is divided by the dardinelle's (or whatever) and half of Istanbul is very european. So, it's not just territory, it's culture and architecture as well.

beauty_is_pink
Dec 20th, 2004, 09:15 PM
I thought you were talking about the turkey - bird, that the Canadians and Americans eat at Thanksgiving and Christmas

Hayato
Dec 20th, 2004, 09:18 PM
we are not all Americans and Canadians here ;) :lol: :hug:

beauty_is_pink
Dec 20th, 2004, 09:20 PM
we are not all Americans and Canadians here ;) :lol: :hug:Forgive me for being so stupid, but I thought the thread was asking if turkey (the food) should become part of the European meal for holidays...

turt
Dec 20th, 2004, 10:23 PM
Forgive me for being so stupid, but I thought the thread was asking if turkey (the food) should become part of the European meal for holidays...
:haha:

Jennifer's wife
Dec 21st, 2004, 12:39 AM
multiculturalism is all well and good in theory but it doesn't work. living in a democracy is all well and good which is why muslims/seiks/islamics whatever enjoy living in western countries. until something western offends them that is. Freedom of speech is only ok if the people who speak freely are not offending any religion. For example a play is banned in Birmingham because it offends a religous group. great, so the majority of people in britain who are not offended are being dictated to be a foreign culture in their own country.
this is why i do not think its a good idea for turkey to join, its just another religion/culture to add to the cooking pot.
there is a reason we are all individuals...because incorporating and homogonizing us all doesnt work. Britain is an island....i wish she could stay that way :(

Hayato
Dec 21st, 2004, 01:07 AM
there are already islamics, muslims, seiks in Europe.

I still think there is no reason as to why Turkey shouldn't be part of the EU.

minboy
Dec 21st, 2004, 11:44 AM
there are already islamics, muslims, seiks in Europe.

I still think there is no reason as to why Turkey shouldn't be part of the EU....And the integration of islamic/muslim population in western europe has not been successfull, whereas the integration of eastern or southern european -or even asian- imigration in western europe has been a complete success.( and don't come and tell me that's because they've been there for longer, there's has been cases of eastern and southern immigration younger than muslim immagration, and they have been successful as well )

Stamp Paid
Dec 21st, 2004, 02:57 PM
...And the integration of islamic/muslim population in western europe has not been successfull, whereas the integration of eastern or southern european -or even asian- imigration in western europe has been a complete success.( and don't come and tell me that's because they've been there for longer, there's has been cases of eastern and southern immigration younger than muslim immagration, and they have been successful as well )
What do you mean by integration, "assimilation"?

Stamp Paid
Dec 21st, 2004, 03:04 PM
BTW, I really appreciate all of you guys' prespectives. I am very intersted in this subject...

Juju_La_Terreure
Dec 22nd, 2004, 08:21 AM
I voted yes. But Turkey has also a lot to do. For being a full member they need several decenia. Taking Turkey in the EU has much possibilities, but can also be very dangereous if they give Turkey too fast all rights of a full EU-member. Don't forget that Turkey will be the biggest EU-country in 25 year, now it's Germany but Turkey is reaching also that level. Letting Turkey immediatly be part of the EU, will create an exodus from turkey to europe, and that we must avoid. With being not a full member the first 10-20 years, europe can handle the participation of turkey and help turkey to reach good economical and political structures and laws.
so, for me it's yes but as long as necesary not a full member. If it won't be necessary anymore than they can be a full member.

2ace2
Aug 2nd, 2005, 02:21 PM
Maybe an interesting time to bring this back up...
Looks like Turkey's chances to join haven't gotten any bigger over the last 6 months and with more and more obvious opposition of some countries and Turkey not willing to acknowledge Cyprus it doesn't look too well.
I actually hope that some countries will put their foot down and won't allow Turkey in, because this country's not ready at all. And I also think that they should have a temporary stop of new members, because a possible entry of Romania scares me at the moment :scared:

Veritas
Aug 2nd, 2005, 02:49 PM
I voted yes. I don't understand why people say no so quickly like Minboy for instance. If his point of view would be a reason to ask countries to leave the EU we would have few countries left. Europe should unite as much as possible. Turkey can form a natural gateway to Asia.

If that's the case, then no. I personally don't want any Europeans encroaching into Asian territory. Better to have Turkey remain more Asian so they can act as sort of a buffer against the EU.

Anyway, it's clear from the general uptakes I got from reading this thread that most people aren't too comfortable with the idea of having an essentially non-Caucasian state being a full part of the EU. What's the point of admitting a country, but only to turn around and say "your membership is a limited one and you won't be able to enjoy the full benefits we give to our 'real' members"? :shrug:

saki
Aug 2nd, 2005, 02:54 PM
I think the EU needs to have tiers. It's developing them - there are the countries in the passport-free zone, those in the Euro - but I think it needs to go further. With this number of members, there's no way that they can make any serious decisions unanimously and there isn't enough feeling of solidarity to make them by majority, so why shouldn't the countries that want closer union go ahead, leaving others in partial union/free-trade zones?

Wiggly
Aug 2nd, 2005, 02:57 PM
No. :)

WorldWar24
Aug 2nd, 2005, 03:57 PM
As you can see from my flag, I am from Rwanda and well, you should know my nations human rights record....:lol::lol:

No seriously, my country is not in a close union with ANY nation, and doesnt feel the need to do sp, whether the nation is Christian, Buddhist, or Atheist. So your analogy is flawed and thus, invalid.
Well duh, what do you think the USA are? They are a combination of countries, joined for the advantages each gets from being in the union. Europe is going to be like that one day. The whole purpose of the EU is to give the power back to the european countries, since that dominance was taken by the USA when europe selfdestructed in two consecutive world wars. The USA can thank their way out of the great depression to the europeans

arn
Aug 2nd, 2005, 04:09 PM
Turkey will be part of the EU by 2010 and noone's gonna stop that.

CooCooCachoo
Aug 2nd, 2005, 04:13 PM
I am against Turkey joining untilthey share the same values and when they meet the requirements.

strike86
Aug 2nd, 2005, 05:59 PM
Up to the people of Turkey to decide, the same way us English should be given a choice whether we want to stay or withdraw from the EU.

Lord Nelson
Aug 2nd, 2005, 06:18 PM
Turkey can join the EU when they allow non-Muslims like Armenians and Assyrians to live freely in Turkey, that they stop reproducing like rabbits, that they recognize Cyprus and solve the problem with Greece.

Tom13
Aug 2nd, 2005, 07:19 PM
I vote yes because the arguments that use people who don't want Turkey in E.U. don't convince me at all.
I have heard an I read here that Turkey is not geographically in Europe. This is not true Istanbul is an european city and even if it doensn't represent a large part of the territory it represents someting like 20% of the population. So a lot of Turks live in Europe. Don't forget all the Turks who live in France Belgium and above all in Germany.
Actually I think that history is more important that geography and for 5 centuries
Turk's history is a part of european history.
I'm highly conviced that Turks are European. Of course they have not the same culture as others europeans countries but is there more differences between greek and turkish culture than between greek and swedish culture? I'm not convinced of that. Anyway the cultural diversity is always positive.
I don't want a world where there will be only one global culture shared by the whole world.
I don't say that Turkey must be accepted now of course. They have a lot of works to do with the human rights. The problem of the Kurds and of the crimes of honnor are the main problems. But we will accept soon Bulgaria and Romania where Tzyganes are nearly under-mans (it's not a critic against romanian or bulgarian citizen at all).
So I guess it's more a pretext.
It will be of course great that Turkey recognise the armenians' genocide perpetrated by the Ottoman empire. (not by Turkey even if Turkey is the sucessor of the Ottoman empire but it's appsolutely not the same kind of State). So again it's a pretext
I think the only thing that disturb a lot of people it's the fact that Turks are a huge majority of muslims. This is absolutely not a reason for me and I precise that I'm not muslim so I'm not biased.
Fortunately Europe is not a catholic club; there is a lot of muslims in Europe right now who are well integrate, there is jews and also a lot of atheists like me. our head of state do'nt take an oath on the bible and Turks don't make this on the coran.

So if Turks consider themselves as European and they want to make part of EU for that reason and not only for economical reason, I support this candidature 100%.

Tom13
Aug 2nd, 2005, 08:00 PM
Letting Turkey immediatly be part of the EU, will create an exodus from turkey to europe, and that we must avoid

Well I have heard the same with Poland and wow we have been invaded for sure. There is no reasons that happens. The huge majority of Turks will prefer to stay in their home country like everybody prefers. If Turkey became a part of EU turkish' economy will grow fast. So no invasion lol, a normal immigration that is necessary anyway for compensate the decrease of european natality.
You would have also the right to live in Turkey.

With being not a full member the first 10-20 years
Fortunately Turks will never accept to be second class citizens. No we have to wait untill they will be ready and of course make a lot of partnership but not accept them as a second class country.

If that's the case, then no. I personally don't want any Europeans encroaching into Asian territory. Better to have Turkey remain more Asian so they can act as sort of a buffer against the EU.
I don't understand why Turkey should be a buffer against EU. Who needs a buffer against EU :shrug: . Anyway I don't think Turks and other europeans will ask the Australians the permission.

The whole purpose of the EU is to give the power back to the european countries

Well I don't think so. The problem it's that the USA have all the power curently with all the problems that it has involved recently. In a few years China will be probably their rival and if we don't want to be in the same situation that during the cold war (tearing apart between two differents visions of the world) we have to be stronger. It means we have to devellop our own vision of the world.
I don't see any will of domination in the EU project. I think that we have learn a lot of the colonization period. Well anyway I hope.

tapout
Aug 2nd, 2005, 08:33 PM
no