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View Full Version : Maria at age 17 vs. Serena at age 17...Who was better?


G1Player2
Nov 20th, 2004, 07:52 PM
Who was better and had the better results at this age or you could compare Maria's 2004 to Serena's 1999...

G1Player2
Nov 20th, 2004, 07:57 PM
Serena TURNED 17 at the end of 1998, but she was 17 throughout 1999...

darrinbaker00
Nov 20th, 2004, 07:59 PM
Maria was much more active this year than Serena was at 17, so of course Maria has better results. Also, since Maria has a 2-1 head-to-head edge, one could say that Maria is better at 17 than Serena is at 23. I wouldn't, but someone could.

G1Player2
Nov 20th, 2004, 07:59 PM
By the way...Serena was #4 at 17 also...

~Cherry*Blossom~
Nov 20th, 2004, 07:59 PM
How fucking pathetic. Your all probably the same ignorant person. If not, then what the fuck has this world come to!!! :lol:

SJW
Nov 20th, 2004, 08:00 PM
Serena was 17 in 1998 i think. Maria has a slam ,a YEC title alongwith 5 other tournaments and is ranked # 4 at 17 while Serena at 17 had never gotten past the 4th round of a slam and i dunno if she was even ranked inside the top 10 !Enough said.

nah. she didn't win the USO at 17 did she? whatever am i thinking of :scratch:

darrinbaker00
Nov 20th, 2004, 08:01 PM
Serena was 17 in 1998 i think. Maria has a slam ,a YEC title alongwith 5 other tournaments and is ranked # 4 at 17 while Serena at 17 had never gotten past the 4th round of a slam and i dunno if she was even ranked inside the top 10 !Enough said.
Actually, 17-year-old Serena beat #1 Martina Hingis for her first major (US Open 1999), and she was ranked in the top 10 when she did it.

jcaprulez
Nov 20th, 2004, 08:04 PM
Serena pips it. They both had a slam and I doubt Serena was playing tier IV's

bandabou
Nov 20th, 2004, 08:04 PM
Serena STARTED to play in the year she would turn 17....but even in that first year she already beat Monica Seles, Pierce, etc...

In her second season when she just turned 17 she won her first major, ended the year as no.4 and won IW, Paris, U.S. open, L.A. and reached the finals at Lipton....only lost ONE match on hardcourts. Maria did win 5 titles but only at two of them did she even face someone ranked higher than herself.....so must say that seeing who Serena had to beat to win those titles, hers were more impressive.

U.s.openī99: she beat no.1 and no.2 back to back and both were major winners that year.

Maria in fact hasnīt beaten a no.1 ranked player in her career.

Maria is up to a good start....letīs see if she keeps it up.

jcaprulez
Nov 20th, 2004, 08:06 PM
maria is more popular

Popular people aren't always better. Just clones.

bandabou
Nov 20th, 2004, 08:17 PM
Yeah lola....but again, if you take in account the level of experience each had....Serena started to play full-time in 98, the year she turned 17....Maria by age 17 already was in her second full season. Isnīt a fair comparison.

Plus Serena didnīt even play juniors.

Diesel
Nov 20th, 2004, 08:21 PM
Why are Serena and Maria being compared all of the sudden with everything?

Why not Maria and Steffi? Or how about Maria and Myskina? Maria and Kim? What's this fixation with Serena?

Diesel
Nov 20th, 2004, 08:45 PM
whats wrong with comparing her to serena??

A ic...you mean theres no comparrison between maria and serena...maria is much better:)

We all have opinions, you simply saying so doesn't mean it's reality. I'm not sure if Serena should be flattered, but to only compare Maria to Serena as a mark to measure Maria's potential maybe it is flattery, but if that's what people will do, that's what they'll do.

Diesel
Nov 20th, 2004, 08:50 PM
yes we all have opinions..but i know what im talking about...unlike the rest

Eh, good for you.

bandabou
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:01 PM
well Serena canīt be that bad, I mean....Maria wins YEC and Wimbledon, year end no.4, etc...yet she is still being compared to Serena...Serena must have done something good back then.

VS Fan
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:04 PM
Maria has a great acomplishment in the WTA finals.

Unable to handle the injured Serena's ferocious groundstrokes in the third set fell behind 0-4.

Serena's 50 mph first serves serves were still troublesome for her but she was able to come back when Serena's ground strokes started missing.

This was SUCH a great victory for her!!!

Seriously, I watched the match and these two put on a clinic in the first set on how tennis should be played. I thought I was seeing the match of the last decade. Both players were were giving up almost ZERO points on serve. This set was VERY even.
Serena was lucky to win it.

Maria was playing so well, that I think Serena felt she had to crank up her serve even more. There was one 129 MPH fault early in the second set. Not too long after that Serena began to play erratically, then the injury timeout. Too bad this match had to go that way.

This COULD have been a classic match, that could have gone either way, if Serena had just avoided the injury.

the cat
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:09 PM
Maria is better than Serena was at age 17. But the question for the future should be is Maria at age 22 be better than Serena was at age 22?

bandabou
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:15 PM
I donīt think itīs really that Maria is better, itīs just that Maria has played MORE than Serena at age 17.

Weīll see how she develops....but if the junior-ranks are any indication, she might be hardpressed to match what Serenaīs achieved. Many russians coming up there...

the cat
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:20 PM
Good point about how Maria has played alot more tennis at 17 than Serena had.

VS Fan
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:22 PM
It is interesting that Maria is being judged as "better" than Serena at 17 on the strength of winning two of three matches vs Serena in 2004. Serena went on a tear that was much stronger than Maria's in 1998-1999, winning vs several top ten players while she was ranked #304. Maria has not done this, BUT the wimbledon vs an uninjured Serena signals a bright future for this rising star.

I think that she, like Serena will struggle some in the coming year because of the expectations she faces, but within two or three years she may be winning majors regularly.

Footnote: If Elena D. could fix her serve, she is also a major contender.

Martian Willow
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:22 PM
well Serena canīt be that bad, I mean....Maria wins YEC and Wimbledon, year end no.4, etc...yet she is still being compared to Serena...Serena must have done something good back then.

True, but there'd be no point comparing Maria to Hingis or Seles at 17, would there? :)

vertigo
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:25 PM
[QUOTE=bandabou]I donīt think itīs really that Maria is better, itīs just that Maria has played MORE than Serena at age 17.

Weīll see how she develops....but if the junior-ranks are any indication, she might be hardpressed to match what Serenaīs achieved. Many russians coming up there.. :worship: :worship:

You're so Right! Serena and Maria have had COMPLETELY different tennis upbringings, so a comparision so early in Maria's career is dubious, wait and see what next year brings.

bandabou
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:28 PM
who said if serena had played lots more she would have won?

There isnīt any reason NOT to believe this.....as Serena was able to beat the top players from the start of her career....I think with an extra year of experience she would have been even better...but that is pure speculation.

Knizzle
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:29 PM
Serena for sure. Not by leaps and bounds, but she was a much more controlled and consistent top player than Maria is right now.

Martian Willow
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:31 PM
There isnīt any reason NOT to believe this.....as Serena was able to beat the top players from the start of her career....I think with an extra year of experience she would have been even better...but that is pure speculation.

If she'd played more she would have got injured because she isn't a natural athlete. :)

vertigo
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:31 PM
:lol: WHAT?? Serena has had easier draws? When exactly?

bandabou
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:31 PM
serena has had more luck..with easier draws


Luck? Serenaīs draws at all those tournaments she won aged 17 were tougher than any draw Maria had in her WHOLE career. Only draw comparable to what Serena had to face at IW alone would be Wimbledon or the YEC.

G1Player2
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:31 PM
Serena at 17 was much more consistent that Maria week-in and week-out...Her results were very consistent and she OWNED the top players...With the exception of about 2 or 3 tournaments Maria's results have been spotty...True, she won when it really mattered, but still...

Serena, also didn't play anythong lower than a TierII and had a better winning percentage than Maria did...Like I said, Serena's results were just much more consistent...

Serena had an INCREDIBLE record vs. top players...The Top 4 that year were Hingis, Davenport, Venus, and Steffi Graf...Serena was a combined 10-3 against these players...She was 4-0 against Davenport and that was one of her best years...She was also 3-1 against Hingis...

Serena also had few bad losses to the likes of say Mashona Washington, Pierce, etc.

bandabou
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:35 PM
Say no more svsk....that record against the top 4 says it all imo.... and that was a year when EVERYBODY was healthy...no player coming back from lay-offs and stuff.

mykarma
Nov 20th, 2004, 09:39 PM
Serena was 17 in 1998 i think. Maria has a slam ,a YEC title alongwith 5 other tournaments and is ranked # 4 at 17 while Serena at 17 had never gotten past the 4th round of a slam and i dunno if she was even ranked inside the top 10 !Enough said.When Serena was 17, the competition in women's tennis was fierce. Not to take anything from Maria but I don't recall when so many of the top players have been out injuried at the same time. Serena and Venus still coming back from injuries. Kim, Justine, Cappy are still out with injuries. I'd like to see how well Maria competes when all of the top players are back.

LeRoy.
Nov 21st, 2004, 01:25 AM
The competition now is as fierce as ever so please don't use that as an excuse.

Doc
Nov 21st, 2004, 01:37 AM
In the 7 months following Serena's 17th birthday she won 21 matches.

In the 7 months following Maria's 17th birthday she won 45 matches.

So, apart from winning two majors, Maria has also won twice the amount of competitive matches.

mykarma
Nov 21st, 2004, 03:08 AM
The competition now is as fierce as ever so please don't use that as an excuse.Surely you jest. :lol: As I stated before, Serena and Venus are coming off of major injuries. Kim, Justine, Monica, and Cappy are still out with injuries so where is the fierce competion?

FrauleinSteffi
Nov 21st, 2004, 03:20 AM
Maria beat Davenport at Wimby..the year ending #1 player THIS YEAR...so she hasnt beaten a #1 player who else umm....Serena twice in big finals at Wimby & the YEC & Venus in Zurich...Maria is no slouch she will only get better she is 17 while Serena is 23 theyre both young still we'll see who is #1 at the end of 2005:)

G1Player2
Nov 21st, 2004, 06:15 AM
In the 7 months following Serena's 17th birthday she won 21 matches.

In the 7 months following Maria's 17th birthday she won 45 matches.

So, apart from winning two majors, Maria has also won twice the amount of competitive matches.
Maria played a BOATLOAD of tennis compared to Serena...No comparisons at all should be here...

BeautifulGirl
Nov 21st, 2004, 06:36 AM
Masha is more successful than Serena at age 17. I remember a choking Serena Williams losing to Arantxa at the French at that age.

Masha is also more popular with the fans and advertisers than Serena ever was. I guess it has something to do with Masha having the total package of beauty, brains, talent and charisma.

:wavey:

maximus82
Nov 21st, 2004, 06:47 AM
Masha is more successful than Serena at age 17. I remember a choking Serena Williams losing to Arantxa at the French at that age.


...er...When Serena was 17, she lost to Mary Jo Fernandez at the French...didn't see the match so I don't know if it was a choke, but MJF was quite a good player.

cheo23
Nov 21st, 2004, 07:03 AM
...er...When Serena was 17, she lost to Mary Jo Fernandez at the French...didn't see the match so I don't know if it was a choke, but MJF was quite a good player.
EXACTLY! but SERENA didn't Win a YEC at AGE 17..U know what I'm sayin!
HMMMMMmm..Maria has More Experience at AGE 17
Plus SERENA BEAT an EXHAUSTED Martina Hingis at the US Open 1999 from that VEnus (SEMIS MATch)which was INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bandabou
Nov 21st, 2004, 11:07 AM
Martina was exhausted? Then what about Serena who had to play 4 three-setters in a row?! Just to REACH the finals?

The more I hear you cheo, less I believe youīre a Serena-fan.

This isnīt a sensible discussion.....different career-paths and different situations.

Letīs just say this: When Serena beat a top player back then it was EXPECTED....when Maria beats one nowadays it is a SURPRISE.

THATīs the difference between the two.

Tochio
Nov 21st, 2004, 01:14 PM
I love Serena more than Maria but for this argument I choose Maria. :)

pcrtennis
Nov 21st, 2004, 05:13 PM
Serena was clearly the better athlete at 17 and still is. Sharapova is a more polished player at 17 but that's because she got a TON more professional coaching. I go with Serena!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VS Fan
Nov 21st, 2004, 05:40 PM
Yeah, Maria just introduced her drop shot at the WTA finals!! (It was rather effective).

Serena normally runs down dropshots with a passion, but probably did not expect them fron Maria.

Maria's game was in the past just extremely effective ground strokes, and a medium serve. (Very similar to Serena's game at 17.)

So also RETURNS many of Serena's "winners" that other players would not have a chance at. This made the first set of the WTA final very compeling. Too bad Serena was unable to play her best to the conclusion. This was a great match untill the injury.

My vote... Serena was better in her debut, but Maria does show a lot of promise.

Kart
Nov 21st, 2004, 05:53 PM
I vote Serena only because she had bigger wins.

However, that is not a gold standard, there are players who were much more accomplished at 17 than both Serena and Maria.

Zhao
Nov 21st, 2004, 06:03 PM
I vote Serena only because she had bigger wins.

However, that is not a gold standard, there are players who were much more accomplished at 17 than both Serena and Maria.
Hingis?? Evert??Capriati?? :worship: :worship:

Knizzle
Nov 21st, 2004, 06:56 PM
In the 7 months following Serena's 17th birthday she won 21 matches.

In the 7 months following Maria's 17th birthday she won 45 matches.

So, apart from winning two majors, Maria has also won twice the amount of competitive matches.
2 majors?

Serena+LenaDrule
Nov 21st, 2004, 06:56 PM
i do not get the comparaison between serena and maria............ compare her to hingis or graff one of the great players who have retired already and by the way is it true that elena dementieva had shoulder injury and thats why her serve is kinda rotten?

TennisTutor
Nov 21st, 2004, 07:40 PM
Maria is cleary better at age 17 than Serena was, or even is now. She beat her easily at Wimbledon and again at the years end.
When Serena was in her prime she was older than 17.

JCF
Nov 21st, 2004, 09:14 PM
Maria by a country mile. Serena came into tennis, when there was not much power about, and players were not used to it. Since they have got used to it, which player has been more sucessful.

Greatest
Nov 21st, 2004, 10:42 PM
Who was better and had the better results at this age or you could compare Maria's 2004 to Serena's 1999...


Maria Sharapova is currently 17 years, 7 months old... here are her records against Serena Williams at that age:

M.Sharapova:

7 Career titles
1 Grand Slam title
Match record: 90-29 .76%

S. WILLIAMS

2 Career titles
0 Grand Slam titles
Match record: 48-16 .75%


So, Maria Sharapova is performing better at 17 years, 7 months than Serena Williams did at similar same age...

TennisTutor
Nov 21st, 2004, 10:48 PM
:lick:
http://www.wtatour.com/global/photos/150x200/310137.jpg

Amen

Joana
Nov 21st, 2004, 11:42 PM
...er...When Serena was 17, she lost to Mary Jo Fernandez at the French...didn't see the match so I don't know if it was a choke, but MJF was quite a good player.
She didn't choke, she simply played a terrible match. Not that is has anything to do with this discussion.

Serena at 17 was one of the players NOBODY wanted to play against. Even right now Maria is not on the same level.

Knizzle
Nov 21st, 2004, 11:45 PM
Serena at 17 was one of the players NOBODY wanted to play against. Even right now Maria is not on the same level.
People don't seem to grasp this fact. Serena was firmly one of the top players. She intimidated opponents even then, no one is really afraid to play Maria at this stage in her career.

G1Player2
Nov 21st, 2004, 11:48 PM
I vote Serena only because she had bigger wins.

However, that is not a gold standard, there are players who were much more accomplished at 17 than both Serena and Maria.
Only Hingis and Seles...

Graf, Evert, and Navratilova had ZERO slams at 17...

G1Player2
Nov 21st, 2004, 11:53 PM
Maria Sharapova is currently 17 years, 7 months old... here are her records against Serena Williams at that age:

M.Sharapova:

7 Career titles
1 Grand Slam title
Match record: 90-29 .76%

S. WILLIAMS

2 Career titles
0 Grand Slam titles
Match record: 48-16 .75%


So, Maria Sharapova is performing better at 17 years, 7 months than Serena Williams did at similar same age...

Maria's record is cushioned by the fact she played several LOW Tier tournaments...She played Tier IV and Tier III's...

Serena NEVER played below Tier II tournaments...

Also, at 17, Serena led Graf, Venus, Hingis, Davenport, Seles, Pierce, ASV, Mauresmo, a combined 16-3...

Maria doesn't even come close...

Mind you, these were when the top players were playing THEIR best tennis and EVERYONE was healthy...

Geisha
Nov 22nd, 2004, 12:10 AM
Maria was much more active this year than Serena was at 17, so of course Maria has better results. Also, since Maria has a 2-1 head-to-head edge, one could say that Maria is better at 17 than Serena is at 23. I wouldn't, but someone could.

Not really. Serena had 5 titles when she was 17. Maria has 7, I believe. They both have a Slam championship. Serena defeated Monica Seles, Lindsay Davenport, Mary Pierce, Irina Spirlea in her first four tournaments. I think Serena might've been better. Maria defeated Lindsay and a couple others, but she wasn't consistent like Serena was at that age.

Doc
Nov 22nd, 2004, 01:28 AM
Not really. Serena had 5 titles when she was 17. Maria has 7, I believe. They both have a Slam championship. Serena defeated Monica Seles, Lindsay Davenport, Mary Pierce, Irina Spirlea in her first four tournaments. I think Serena might've been better. Maria defeated Lindsay and a couple others, but she wasn't consistent like Serena was at that age.

The "couple of others" Maria defeated included Serena, Venus, Myskina, Kuznetsova, Dementieva and Sugiyama.

Regarding consistency, as others have pointed out, Serena was playing power tennis when 90% of the tour was unprepared for it, so that made her wins look more impressive. Things are different now. More players play and can respond to power tennis, and that more than counterbalances the absence of Justine and Kim this year. Even so, in her 17th year Serena lost to Testud (twice), Graf, Sanchez-Vicario and MJ Fernandez, as well as Venus, playing considerably fewer matches than Maria.

Adding in the YEC and the fact that Maria is only seven months into her 17th year, I would say that she definitely has the edge in the Yr 17 comparison.

G1Player2
Nov 22nd, 2004, 04:53 AM
The "couple of others" Maria defeated included Serena, Venus, Myskina, Kuznetsova, Dementieva and Sugiyama.

Regarding consistency, as others have pointed out, Serena was playing power tennis when 90% of the tour was unprepared for it, so that made her wins look more impressive. Things are different now. More players play and can respond to power tennis, and that more than counterbalances the absence of Justine and Kim this year. Even so, in her 17th year Serena lost to Testud (twice), Graf, Sanchez-Vicario and MJ Fernandez, as well as Venus, playing considerably fewer matches than Maria.

Adding in the YEC and the fact that Maria is only seven months into her 17th year, I would say that she definitely has the edge in the Yr 17 comparison.
Disagree...Most of Maria's big wins came at the YEC's where it was a Round Robin event...Before, she had NEVER beaten Myskina or Kuznetsova...They also have a routine head to head vs. her as well...

Serena DID not have a losing record to ANYBODY that year...NOBODY...She was either TIED or led everyone head to head...

Also, Chris Evert said that the year 1999, was the most competetive year in women's tennis so that thing about players not being ready for power is a little mute...

Serena also NEVER player lower tier tourneys and Davenport, Venus, Graf, Pierce, and Seles ALL had a combines losing record against Serena and they were ALL power players and knew what they were facing when they played her, so the thing about her having power and players not able to face it is simply not true as they were just as bigger hitters...

faboozadoo15
Nov 22nd, 2004, 05:03 AM
People don't seem to grasp this fact. Serena was firmly one of the top players. She intimidated opponents even then, no one is really afraid to play Maria at this stage in her career.
then they're delusional and better be ready to lose...
maybe serena wasn't afraid of maria at wimbledon? who cares? sharapova showed her who the better player is. i don't think many players want to run into maria at all...

G1Player2
Nov 22nd, 2004, 05:14 AM
then they're delusional and better be ready to lose...
maybe serena wasn't afraid of maria at wimbledon? who cares? sharapova showed her who the better player is. i don't think many players want to run into maria at all...
Myskina on three occasions, Daniela Hantuchova, Serena Williams, Silvia Farina Elia, Paola Suarez, Vera Zvonareva, Mashona Washington, Mary Pierce, Svetlana Kuznetsova, Alicia Molik and Amelie Mauresmo (twice) didn't seem too scared to run into her...

Infiniti2001
Nov 22nd, 2004, 05:55 AM
Maria Sharapova is currently 17 years, 7 months old... here are her records against Serena Williams at that age:

M.Sharapova:

7 Career titles
1 Grand Slam title
Match record: 90-29 .76%

S. WILLIAMS

2 Career titles
0 Grand Slam titles
Match record: 48-16 .75%


So, Maria Sharapova is performing better at 17 years, 7 months than Serena Williams did at similar same age...


What a bogus agument. :rolleyes: if Serena played Tier 3s and 4s she could have racked more wins. As a matter of fact Maria has played way more tournaments than Serena had at her age. I'll even go as far as to say that she has stretched the age eligibility rules ever since she was 14 :tape:

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2004, 11:10 AM
then they're delusional and better be ready to lose...
maybe serena wasn't afraid of maria at wimbledon? who cares? sharapova showed her who the better player is. i don't think many players want to run into maria at all...

and you mean people actually wanted to face Serena back when she was 17? I donīt think just because Maria got a couple of wins over a Serena who is still finding her form, she immediately became the better player. She was the better player on those two ocations and kudos to her.

Otherwise donīt see why Monica-fans have to keep saying Monica never was the same after the stabbing this and that....so itīs fair to see that Steffi indeed was just the better player.

Great Seles
Nov 22nd, 2004, 11:18 AM
and you mean people actually wanted to face Serena back when she was 17? I donīt think just because Maria got a couple of wins over a Serena who is still finding her form, she immediately became the better player. She was the better player on those two ocations and kudos to her.

Otherwise donīt see why Monica-fans have to keep saying Monica never was the same after the stabbing this and that....so itīs fair to see that Steffi indeed was just the better player.

Was there a STABBING involved to benefit a lesser ranked player? :confused: hmmm BIG DIFFERENCE!

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2004, 11:24 AM
Once you come back, then you came back.....means youīre fit to compete.

Greatest
Nov 22nd, 2004, 12:57 PM
Once you come back, then you came back.....means youīre fit to compete.

She was at the PEAK when she someone tried to kill her. Undisputed number one player in the world and winner of 8 of the last 10 Grand Slams played. The fact remains that she was stabbed to benefit a LESSER ranked player which is unprecedented in sports history.

Obviously, she was NEVER the same player she once was after the attack as intended by the jealous fan.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2004, 01:03 PM
She was at the PEAK when she someone tried to kill her. Undisputed number one player in the world and winner of 8 of the last 10 Grand Slams played. The fact remains that she was stabbed to benefit a LESSER ranked player which is unprecedented in sports history.

Obviously, she was NEVER the same player she once was after the attack as intended by the jealous fan.

Maybe...or more likely: players were just better than her.

rjd1111
Nov 22nd, 2004, 01:10 PM
Maria was much more active this year than Serena was at 17, so of course Maria has better results. Also, since Maria has a 2-1 head-to-head edge, one could say that Maria is better at 17 than Serena is at 23. I wouldn't, but someone could.



Maria would have lost YEC Had Sereana not been Injured so there is an
* on one of those wins. And some of those better results were in low
tier tourneys that serena would never play in.

Kart
Nov 22nd, 2004, 06:33 PM
Only Hingis and Seles...

Graf, Evert, and Navratilova had ZERO slams at 17...
Well those were the two I was thinking of.

Stamp Paid
Nov 22nd, 2004, 06:38 PM
MARIA had more titles at 17.
SERENA was the better player at 17.

maximus82
Nov 22nd, 2004, 07:34 PM
Once you come back, then you came back.....means youīre fit to compete.

Hmm...well, under this logic, you should be willing to admit that Sharapova was a better player than Venus and Serena in 2004? Granted, both players were hindered by injuries, but since they were playing the comparison is valid.

I'm not necessarily claiming this...just curious about your reasoning.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2004, 07:44 PM
Hmm...well, under this logic, you should be willing to admit that Sharapova was a better player than Venus and Serena in 2004? Granted, both players were hindered by injuries, but since they were playing the comparison is valid.

I'm not necessarily claiming this...just curious about your reasoning.

And I used the same reasoning.....Monica-fans claim that Serena was the old self and thus Maria is the better player...but then go hiding when people claim the same about Monica....Monica-fans are saying that she never was the same and bla blah, soooo...

maximus82
Nov 22nd, 2004, 09:30 PM
Ah...i got it now. You were mainly making the point that they can't have it both ways...

Big Dave
Nov 22nd, 2004, 09:31 PM
Should wait until JUST before Maria turns 18 before comparing to save arguments about months etc..

Jaime Bahena
Nov 22nd, 2004, 09:50 PM
well Serena canīt be that bad, I mean....Maria wins YEC and Wimbledon, year end no.4, etc...yet she is still being compared to Serena...Serena must have done something good back then.
...and Maria did something good this year.

Jaime Bahena
Nov 22nd, 2004, 09:53 PM
Maria played a BOATLOAD of tennis compared to Serena...No comparisons at all should be here...

Right you are. However, do you think Serena's body would have withstood the tennis for an equal number of matches? We may never know.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2004, 11:13 PM
Ah...i got it now. You were mainly making the point that they can't have it both ways...


u got it..

RYNJ
Nov 23rd, 2004, 03:37 AM
People are sayign how Maria will just get better because shes only 17, thats not always true. Take someone like Martina Hingis at 17 she owned the wta tour, but look at her now. Its not a very logical arguement to say that she will just get better.

faboozadoo15
Nov 23rd, 2004, 03:42 AM
And I used the same reasoning.....Monica-fans claim that Serena was the old self and thus Maria is the better player...but then go hiding when people claim the same about Monica....Monica-fans are saying that she never was the same and bla blah, soooo...
there's quite a difference between being stabbed on court by a deranged fan of your second fiddle and having to have knee surgery...

faboozadoo15
Nov 23rd, 2004, 03:46 AM
Right you are. However, do you think Serena's body would have withstood the tennis for an equal number of matches? We may never know.
imo, there's always been a reason why serena hasn't played more. it's because she can't. her body couldn't withstand it, and if she played more, her best tennis would never shine through. she's smart with her schedule. she picks her events well and doesn't want to show up less than herself and lose. that's not a part of her. but now, she's facing the risk of actually playing her best tennis and losing. mentally, that's very damaging for someone. she doesn't allow herself to play a schedule where she could shrug off a few events and call those "off weeks" because when you only play 15 weeks a year and everytime you lose, it's because you're "off"... then you have no "on".

Greatest
Nov 23rd, 2004, 10:26 AM
there's quite a difference between being stabbed on court by a deranged fan of your second fiddle and having to have knee surgery...

bandabou is so messed up :lol:

BeautifulGirl
Nov 23rd, 2004, 10:31 AM
that Serena was the old self and thus Maria is the better player...but then go hiding when people claim the same about Monica....Monica-fans are saying that she never was the same and bla blah, soooo...


Why the need to bring up the fact that Serena was injured. So what's it going to be Serena fans, the lights were too bright, the surface was terrible, the anti Serena line judges! Come on let's hear it all, you know you want to give some lame excuse after all Serena never loses, she just gets cheated against right?

HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN OF TENNIS : MARIA SHARAPOVA :bounce:

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:17 PM
imo, there's always been a reason why serena hasn't played more. it's because she can't. her body couldn't withstand it, and if she played more, her best tennis would never shine through. she's smart with her schedule. she picks her events well and doesn't want to show up less than herself and lose. that's not a part of her. but now, she's facing the risk of actually playing her best tennis and losing. mentally, that's very damaging for someone. she doesn't allow herself to play a schedule where she could shrug off a few events and call those "off weeks" because when you only play 15 weeks a year and everytime you lose, it's because you're "off"... then you have no "on".

The same can be said about Monica....when you have peaked only two years and get stabbed...but donīt win anything since your return, then it can be said that you might well have been playing your best but still lost...

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:21 PM
there's quite a difference between being stabbed on court by a deranged fan of your second fiddle and having to have knee surgery...

blah blah blah......was that a " Monica only lost because she had a foot-injury"-claim I read?

Donīt buy that.....as has been proven countless time already, even in her peak years Monica had trouble with Steffi.....so logic says that once she had to start facing Steffi more and more often......as you said with Serena: maybe your best just isnīt good enough. If thatīs your view on things regarding Serena, then that theory goes very well for our dear and beloved Monica as well. Stabbing was tragical, but I think thereīs a deeper truth buried in there if you know what I mean.

Great Seles
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:22 PM
The same can be said about Monica....when you have peaked only two years and get stabbed...but donīt win anything since your return, then it can be said that you might well have been playing your best but still lost...

Did Sharapova have a Gunther Parche type deranged fan on her side to cause Serena to get injured? Oh Bandabou, where did your brain go?..if you ever had one :lol:

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:24 PM
Nope....but neither had Steffi....or you wanna say that Steffi ordered Gunther to stab Monica?

Great Seles
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:26 PM
blah blah blah......was that a " Monica only lost because she had a foot-injury"-claim I read?

Donīt buy that.....as has been proven countless time already, even in her peak years Monica had trouble with Steffi.....so logic says that once she had to start facing Steffi more and more often......as you said with Serena: maybe your best just isnīt good enough. If thatīs your view on things regarding Serena, then that theory goes very well for our dear and beloved Monica as well. Stabbing was tragical, but I think thereīs a deeper truth buried in there if you know what I mean.

Seles won about 20% more titles than Graf did.

Seles won (90%) of the major titles in the 3 year period (12 for Seles vs. only 2 for Graf).

CLAY COURTS: MONICA SELES.

Seles was the better player on clay:

1990 French Open
1991 French Open
1992 French Open


INDOOR: MONICA SELES.

Seles won the biggest indoor event in 1990, 1991 and 1992:

1990 Tour Championships
1991 Tour Championships
1992 Tour Championships


HARDCOURTS: MONICA SELES.

Seles was the better player on hardcourts because she won the 2 biggest events on hardcourts 5 straight times:

1991 Australian
1991 U.S. Open
1992 Australian
1992 U.S. Open
1993 Australian


GRASS COURTS: STEFFI GRAF.


Graf won Wimbledon in 1991 and 1992 when Seles did not play the event in 1991 and she made the final round of 1992 ... so Graf has the better record on grass.

HARDCOURTS: SELES
INDOORS: SELES
CLAY: SELES
GRASS: GRAF



CUMULATIVE May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 201-16 (92.63%)
Graf: 200-22 (88.50%)



BY SURFACE:


Hardcourts May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 98-8 match record (92.45%) .. 13 titles
Graf: 66-9 match record (88.00%) .. 5 titles



Clay May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 57-4 match record (93.44%) .. 8 titles
Graf: 58-7 match record (89.23%) .. 5 titles



Grass May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 10-2 match record (83.33%) .. no titles
Graf: 19-1 match record (95.00%) .. 2 titles



Indoor Carpet May1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 36-2 match record (94.74%) ... 8 titles
Graf: 57-5 match record (91.94%) ... 12 titles


#1 Ranking


Monica Seles Mar 11, 1991 --- Aug 04, 1991 (21 weeks)
Steffi Graf Aug 05, 1991 - --Aug 11, 1991 (1 week)
Monica Seles Aug 12, 1991 --- Aug 18, 1991 (1 week)
Steffi Graf Aug 19, 1991 --- Sep 08, 1991 (3 weeks)
Monica Seles Sep 09, 1991 - --Jun 06, 1993 (91 weeks)

Seles LOST her number one ranking due to inactivity on June 06, 1993 after the horrible stabbing by a jealous Graf fan.

Steffi Graf challenged for the top ranking twice in 1991 BUT was only capable of holding to it at the maximum (three weeks). Ultimately, the german LOST the battle to Seles and happily settled at number two

Are you saying that Gunther Parche got the WRONG player? :eek:

Great Seles
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:29 PM
Nope....but neither had Steffi....or you wanna say that Steffi ordered Gunther to stab Monica?



Bandabou, or you wanna say you that ordered Gunther Parche to stab Seles?...hmmmm Considering how much time you spent stalking Monica in this board...

Aside of course from stalking Maria in this board.....

flyingmachine
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:39 PM
If you what me to ask this question.
When it's obivous that Maria was the better out of these two.
HOWEVER!
You have to realised that different people are in their prime at different age.
People like Hingis was in her prime when she was a teenager whiles people like Novotna she didn't reach her prime until when she was in her mid and late 20's.
Whiles some people like Graf who always be consistence. Whiles some only in their prime for a few years
At the end of the end if someone was better at a young doesn't mean they are better than someone who was in their prime later on.
I just think everyone are different that's all. ;)

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:44 PM
Seles won about 20% more titles than Graf did.

Seles won (90%) of the major titles in the 3 year period (12 for Seles vs. only 2 for Graf).

CLAY COURTS: MONICA SELES.

Seles was the better player on clay:

1990 French Open
1991 French Open
1992 French Open


INDOOR: MONICA SELES.

Seles won the biggest indoor event in 1990, 1991 and 1992:

1990 Tour Championships
1991 Tour Championships
1992 Tour Championships


HARDCOURTS: MONICA SELES.

Seles was the better player on hardcourts because she won the 2 biggest events on hardcourts 5 straight times:

1991 Australian
1991 U.S. Open
1992 Australian
1992 U.S. Open
1993 Australian


GRASS COURTS: STEFFI GRAF.


Graf won Wimbledon in 1991 and 1992 when Seles did not play the event in 1991 and she made the final round of 1992 ... so Graf has the better record on grass.

HARDCOURTS: SELES
INDOORS: SELES
CLAY: SELES
GRASS: GRAF



CUMULATIVE May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 201-16 (92.63%)
Graf: 200-22 (88.50%)



BY SURFACE:


Hardcourts May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 98-8 match record (92.45%) .. 13 titles
Graf: 66-9 match record (88.00%) .. 5 titles



Clay May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 57-4 match record (93.44%) .. 8 titles
Graf: 58-7 match record (89.23%) .. 5 titles



Grass May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 10-2 match record (83.33%) .. no titles
Graf: 19-1 match record (95.00%) .. 2 titles



Indoor Carpet May1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 36-2 match record (94.74%) ... 8 titles
Graf: 57-5 match record (91.94%) ... 12 titles


#1 Ranking


Monica Seles Mar 11, 1991 --- Aug 04, 1991 (21 weeks)
Steffi Graf Aug 05, 1991 - --Aug 11, 1991 (1 week)
Monica Seles Aug 12, 1991 --- Aug 18, 1991 (1 week)
Steffi Graf Aug 19, 1991 --- Sep 08, 1991 (3 weeks)
Monica Seles Sep 09, 1991 - --Jun 06, 1993 (91 weeks)

Seles LOST her number one ranking due to inactivity on June 06, 1993 after the horrible stabbing by a jealous Graf fan.

Steffi Graf challenged for the top ranking twice in 1991 BUT was only capable of holding to it at the maximum (three weeks). Ultimately, the german LOST the battle to Seles and happily settled at number two

Are you saying that Gunther Parche got the WRONG player? :eek:


Nice stats......but whatīs she done since coming back? You all keep moaning and crying that Monica in the what, 9 years now already, since coming back Monica never found her old self.....but when I tell you that give Serena more than just 10 months to find her old form back, you dismiss it?

Injuries, stabbed or non-stabbed, take the rythm away from one....if you could wait more than 9 years for Monica to get hers back, give Serena at least more than a year...

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:45 PM
Bandabou, or you wanna say you that ordered Gunther Parche to stab Seles?...hmmmm Considering how much time you spent stalking Monica in this board...

Aside of course from stalking Maria in this board.....

:lol: Not funny!! :fiery: I didnīt even KNOW who Monica was before I heard the news...

Great Seles
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:52 PM
Nice stats......but whatīs she done since coming back? You all keep moaning and crying that Monica in the what, 9 years now already, since coming back Monica never found her old self.....but when I tell you that give Serena more than just 10 months to find her old form back, you dismiss it?

Injuries, stabbed or non-stabbed, take the rythm away from one....if you could wait more than 9 years for Monica to get hers back, give Serena at least more than a year...

Bandabou has LOST it.. :lol:

Health is a part of the game ... the better players try to stay healthy for a reason .. of course, there are times when the best players are stabbed in the back by a jealous fan with a knife so that lesser players can have a chance to win ... but those occasions, fortunately, are very rare in the sport.

Greenout
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:53 PM
:lol: Not funny!! :fiery: I didnīt even KNOW who Monica was before I heard the news...




Something tells me that this thread will go on till next spring. ;)

Great Seles
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:56 PM
Something tells me that this thread will go on till next spring. ;)

As long as Sharapova BEATS Serena Williams. Bandabou can NEVER be far behind. :lol:

mykarma
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:56 PM
Why the need to bring up the fact that Serena was injured. So what's it going to be Serena fans, the lights were too bright, the surface was terrible, the anti Serena line judges! Come on let's hear it all, you know you want to give some lame excuse after all Serena never loses, she just gets cheated against right?

HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN OF TENNIS : MARIA SHARAPOVA :bounce:Ok, Serena was injuried and she didn't have a anti Serena line judge. Feel better?

BeautifulGirl
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:59 PM
As long as Sharapova BEATS Serena Williams. Bandabou can NEVER be far behind. :lol:

thats for sure.


HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN: MARIA SHARAPOVA :bounce:

Greenout
Nov 23rd, 2004, 12:59 PM
Ok, Serena was injuried and she didn't have a anti Serena line judge. Feel better?


But, where there any anti-Maria tennis balls? :p

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:00 PM
Bandabou has LOST it.. :lol:

Health is a part of the game ... the better players try to stay healthy for a reason .. of course, there are times when the best players are stabbed in the back by a jealous fan with a knife so that lesser players can have a chance to win ... but those occasions, fortunately, are very rare in the sport.

Thank God for that....

But she did come back and never again showed ī91-ī93 form.....and that we canīt keep blaming the stabbing for....maybe, just maybe, the game has become better...as youīre implying with Maria and Serena...Maria has become better than Serena, you say? Cool....no problem.

But then Monica-fans have to accept facts too: After ī95 the game has become better than Monica....first it was Steffi who was better, then came Hingis, then the Williamses and now Maria...simple as that.

Greenout
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:02 PM
Actually, me and the Henin-Hardenne's were out of town on
holiday during the YEC. Off course (cough, cough) not together.
I was in London; so err....what happened? Anything interesting?
Missed the entire thing.

Tell me all about it. :tape:

Nochi
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:05 PM
both have their own advantage things....so no need to compare !!!

Greatest
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:05 PM
Thank God for that....

But she did come back and never again showed ī91-ī93 form.....and that we canīt keep blaming the stabbing for....maybe, just maybe, the game has become better...as youīre implying with Maria and Serena...Maria has become better than Serena, you say? Cool....no problem.

But then Monica-fans have to accept facts too: After ī95 the game has become better than Monica....first it was Steffi who was better, then came Hingis, then the Williamses and now Maria...simple as that.

More Lame duck Excuses? Maria Sharapova beat Serena Williams fair and square. Not because of any stabbing by one of her fans. :lol: :lol: :lol:

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:14 PM
More Lame duck Excuses? Maria Sharapova beat Serena Williams fair and square. Not because of any stabbing by one of her fans. :lol: :lol: :lol:


And I admit to that....but Monica-fans want to blame NINE!!! years of losing by Monica on a stabbing?

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:16 PM
As long as Sharapova BEATS Serena Williams. Bandabou can NEVER be far behind. :lol:

:lol: I can only tremble in fear to what Maria would have done to the great seles...

BeautifulGirl
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:19 PM
:lol: I can only tremble in fear to what Maria would have done to the great seles...

What matters most now for us masha fans is that Sharapova now owns Serena.


HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN: MARIA SHARAPOVA :bounce:

BeautifulGirl
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:22 PM
More Lame duck Excuses? Maria Sharapova beat Serena Williams fair and square. Not because of any stabbing by one of her fans. :lol: :lol: :lol:


I agree, Serena is a sore loser, always citing injuries when she loses. She is concieted and needs to start practicing instead of designing her horrible little outfits. :rolleyes:

HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN: MARIA SHARAPOVA :bounce:

Big Dave
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:23 PM
put it this way, when serena was same age as maria is now, she was nowhere near as good as maria now

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2004, 01:32 PM
What matters most now for us masha fans is that Sharapova now owns Serena.


HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN: MARIA SHARAPOVA :bounce:

She OWNS Serena. O.k....but as long as Myskina, Sveta, et al still own Maria, then the odds are pretty good for Serena....that she wonīt have to face Maria.

And Serenaīs a bad loser and fakes injuries? Sometimes.....but donīt tell me you think last week was a fake injury?

BeautifulGirl
Nov 24th, 2004, 08:30 AM
And Serenaīs a bad loser and fakes injuries? Sometimes.....but donīt tell me you think last week was a fake injury?


As I recall, the largest "barrage of aimless ignorance from a number of haters" came after Jennifer defeated Serena at the French Open and the US Open this year.

We're kind of used to that. It happends to any player that defeats Serena in a tournament. Forget the fact that Serena has "headaches" "stomach aches" "knee swells" "forearm aches" and a host of many other ailments associated with poor training, conditioning, body mechanics and coaching.

Come on! Anyone whose recovering from knee surgery that wears high heels with her trashy tiny outfits to a celebrity event can't be THAT hurt. :rolleyes:


HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN: MARIA SHARAPOVA :bounce:

G1Player2
Nov 24th, 2004, 09:40 AM
As I recall, the largest "barrage of aimless ignorance from a number of haters" came after Jennifer defeated Serena at the French Open and the US Open this year.

We're kind of used to that. It happends to any player that defeats Serena in a tournament. Forget the fact that Serena has "headaches" "stomach aches" "knee swells" "forearm aches" and a host of many other ailments associated with poor training, conditioning, body mechanics and coaching.

Come on! Anyone whose recovering from knee surgery that wears high heels with her trashy tiny outfits to a celebrity event can't be THAT hurt. :rolleyes:


HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN: MARIA SHARAPOVA :bounce:
LOL...Cough...

You really act like Maria has Serena's number...Didn't Serena beat Maria easily this year as well?

By the way, that Us Open QF had the most asinine and dumbest umpire in tennis history...5 balls proved to be clearly in but were called out...hmmmmm

By the way, Serena did beat Jenn 6-1, 6-1 at Wimbledon and trust me NO Jennifer lost can ever replace that scoreline...EVER...

6-1, 6-1 baby...eat the breadsticks while there still fresh...

By the way, Serena is still regaining her form from coming back off of that tough injury layout. This former No.1 and holder of ALL four slams will regain her devastating form again and when she is back for good she will make it a long COLD winter for Maria Sharapova...

G1Player2
Nov 24th, 2004, 07:46 PM
I just wanted to say that in no means do I think Sharapoca sucks, however...

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2004, 08:13 PM
As I recall, the largest "barrage of aimless ignorance from a number of haters" came after Jennifer defeated Serena at the French Open and the US Open this year.

We're kind of used to that. It happends to any player that defeats Serena in a tournament. Forget the fact that Serena has "headaches" "stomach aches" "knee swells" "forearm aches" and a host of many other ailments associated with poor training, conditioning, body mechanics and coaching.

Come on! Anyone whose recovering from knee surgery that wears high heels with her trashy tiny outfits to a celebrity event can't be THAT hurt. :rolleyes:


HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN: MARIA SHARAPOVA :bounce:

Of course.....when youīre injured that means you canīt go out anymore, you should just lay in bed....and of course walking casualy is the same as running left and right, back and forth......yep, I got it.

Stamp Paid
Nov 24th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Seles won about 20% more titles than Graf did.

Seles won (90%) of the major titles in the 3 year period (12 for Seles vs. only 2 for Graf).

CLAY COURTS: MONICA SELES.

Seles was the better player on clay:

1990 French Open
1991 French Open
1992 French Open


INDOOR: MONICA SELES.

Seles won the biggest indoor event in 1990, 1991 and 1992:

1990 Tour Championships
1991 Tour Championships
1992 Tour Championships


HARDCOURTS: MONICA SELES.

Seles was the better player on hardcourts because she won the 2 biggest events on hardcourts 5 straight times:

1991 Australian
1991 U.S. Open
1992 Australian
1992 U.S. Open
1993 Australian


GRASS COURTS: STEFFI GRAF.


Graf won Wimbledon in 1991 and 1992 when Seles did not play the event in 1991 and she made the final round of 1992 ... so Graf has the better record on grass.

HARDCOURTS: SELES
INDOORS: SELES
CLAY: SELES
GRASS: GRAF



CUMULATIVE May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 201-16 (92.63%)
Graf: 200-22 (88.50%)



BY SURFACE:


Hardcourts May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 98-8 match record (92.45%) .. 13 titles
Graf: 66-9 match record (88.00%) .. 5 titles



Clay May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 57-4 match record (93.44%) .. 8 titles
Graf: 58-7 match record (89.23%) .. 5 titles



Grass May 1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 10-2 match record (83.33%) .. no titles
Graf: 19-1 match record (95.00%) .. 2 titles



Indoor Carpet May1990 - April 1993 until stabbing:

Seles: 36-2 match record (94.74%) ... 8 titles
Graf: 57-5 match record (91.94%) ... 12 titles


#1 Ranking


Monica Seles Mar 11, 1991 --- Aug 04, 1991 (21 weeks)
Steffi Graf Aug 05, 1991 - --Aug 11, 1991 (1 week)
Monica Seles Aug 12, 1991 --- Aug 18, 1991 (1 week)
Steffi Graf Aug 19, 1991 --- Sep 08, 1991 (3 weeks)
Monica Seles Sep 09, 1991 - --Jun 06, 1993 (91 weeks)

Seles LOST her number one ranking due to inactivity on June 06, 1993 after the horrible stabbing by a jealous Graf fan.

Steffi Graf challenged for the top ranking twice in 1991 BUT was only capable of holding to it at the maximum (three weeks). Ultimately, the german LOST the battle to Seles and happily settled at number two

Are you saying that Gunther Parche got the WRONG player? :eek:
Damn, I actually know these stats damn near by heart now. Is anyone else getting sick of seeing them? :lol:

faboozadoo15
Nov 25th, 2004, 05:08 AM
bandabou does have a good point that a lot of seles fans think the stabbing affected a decade of her career and kept her from winning, so we should also give serena some time to get back to winning. that's a very good point.
but there are differences. serena never had to beat maria to win her slams-- maria is a new player. it would be one thing if serena owned maria, then serena gets injured and maria won 4 slams in a row. monica wasn't going to start losing to steffi im majors (if you ask me). she was always just too tough when it counted. monica stabbed= steffi winning 4 slams in a row. that's just ridiculous when monica would have been favored to win every major she was going to play for at least the next 2 years. but you do have a point that serena should be given a longer grace period. i just think psychologically monica's injury is a lot harder to overcome and that's why people have been rooting for her in majors a decade after the stabbing. also let's not belittle what monica has done since her return, please. if you just looked at her career after her comeback, it's a pretty sweet ride. almost any player ever to have played tennis would have traded their career for what monica had between 95-2003.

Old_Folk
Nov 29th, 2004, 09:09 PM
Maria because she has won 2 big events already.