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VeraNuVirgosFan
Nov 16th, 2004, 12:19 PM
If Serena wasn't injured, who do you think would have won the YEC: Masha or Serena?

Please vote and share your viewpoints.

I couldn't watch this match, so I'm very interested to know about your opinion.

Thank you!

Chunchun
Nov 16th, 2004, 12:21 PM
Serena

i watched the highlights of the match in HK news,
at mp serena dun even have any power to serve,
which obviously shows she's injured

if she's not i m damn sure she can beat Masha with 6-4 2-6 4-0 lead.

Now masha win, lena fall to no.6 :crying2:

Dan23
Nov 16th, 2004, 12:39 PM
At the time of the injury timeout the match was virtually level at a set each...
Its hard to say what would have happened in the 3rd set had there been no injury :)

bandabou
Nov 16th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Before her injury, Serena was serving really well....I think that Serena would have pulled it off if she wasnīt injured....but we will never know.

Greatest
Nov 16th, 2004, 12:48 PM
Before her injury, Serena was serving really well....I think that Serena would have pulled it off if she wasnīt injured....but we will never know.

please stop using injuries as an excuse, Serena got beat, by the end of the year most players are tired and injured, Maria like in wimbledon was just better, suck it up and be a man and stop using excuses.

Wojtek
Nov 16th, 2004, 12:51 PM
Masha

Glenn
Nov 16th, 2004, 12:52 PM
Maria Sharapova.

OUT!
Nov 16th, 2004, 12:53 PM
please stop using injuries as an excuse.How is having an injury an excuse? :scratch: Surely it hinders a players game? :rolleyes:

twight6
Nov 16th, 2004, 12:53 PM
i thought serena got injured against myskina... so if she made it through the last set of elena d. serving well and then served well against lindsay, she couldn't have been too hurt in this match.... not to mention the fact that she won the first set against masha... i think she is just a choker! leading lindsay by a set and then losing, same with masha only it was 4-0 in the third before she lost! i think she is just a big choker and uses injuries as an excuse. so to answer the question, masha, w/out a doubt.... and one thing that proves that is the wimby final!

bandabou
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:06 PM
please stop using injuries as an excuse, Serena got beat, by the end of the year most players are tired and injured, Maria like in wimbledon was just better, suck it up and be a man and stop using excuses.


Your writing seems familiar....seems like a Monica-fan. So I guess we can just say Monica after ī95 was just beaten....no the stabbing this crap, right?

bandabou
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:08 PM
i thought serena got injured against myskina... so if she made it through the last set of elena d. serving well and then served well against lindsay, she couldn't have been too hurt in this match.... not to mention the fact that she won the first set against masha... i think she is just a choker! leading lindsay by a set and then losing, same with masha only it was 4-0 in the third before she lost! i think she is just a big choker and uses injuries as an excuse. so to answer the question, masha, w/out a doubt.... and one thing that proves that is the wimby final!

sounds pretty familiar...so we can say Sveta beat Lindsay fair and square at the Open, right? I mean she did win the 1st set and led 3-0 in the third, no?

Greatest
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Your writing seems familiar....seems like a Monica-fan. So I guess we can just say Monica after ī95 was just beaten....no the stabbing this crap, right?

Did Serena got stabbed by a jealous fan of Graf? NO All I'm saying is that Maria beat Serena fair and square on the tennis courts.

Greatest
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:18 PM
sounds pretty familiar...so we can say Sveta beat Lindsay fair and square at the Open, right? I mean she did win the 1st set and led 3-0 in the third, no?

sounds like sour grapes once again for bandy

salima
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:20 PM
If the moon was a cheddar , if my aunt was my uncle if tomorrow was yesterday, and if my mother had a dick, she would have been my father:o

AnDyDog621
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:21 PM
It appeared that Serena starting feeling bad when she let Maria hold serve in the 2nd set. Anyway, This match was a lot better than the Wimbledon match, and that is for sure. I would think Maria...cause she didn't play as much this week, or maybe Serena....iono, well it was tied up when she physically could not serve 100mph on her 1st serve...so its a toss up

bandabou
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:22 PM
No, no....be a man or woman you too. Say it: Monica just got beaten fair and square. Once she came back , the stabbing excuse seased to exist.......soo, whatīs gonna be?!

I can admit that Serena got beaten. Can you do the same?

Can you admit that Steffi was just better in ī95 and ī96 and that Martina H et al were better from ī97 and onwards?

Greatest
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:24 PM
No, no....be a man or woman you too. Say it: Monica just got beaten fair and square. Once she came back , the stabbing excuse seased to exist.......soo, whatīs gonna be?!

I can admit that Serena got beaten. Can you do the same?

Can you admit that Steffi was just better in ī95 and ī96 and that Martina H et al were better from ī97 and onwards?

Haha, What's Monica and Steffi got to do with it? bandy :lol: Now you blame Monica for Serena's loss.. :lol:

well, serena was once again unable to close the deal against the talented 17 year old russian. first wimbledon and now the wta championships. congratulations, maria! well done! that 3rd set comeback was spectacular.

as far as serena's concerned, as unfortunate as it was to watch her struggle in that 3rd set, it somehow became clear that she's a mere ghost of her former self. she seems to be mostly hollywood diva at this point. her champion's focus is slowly giving way to resignation. i think we're witnessing the passing of the torch.

bandabou
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:29 PM
Haha, What's Monica and Steffi got to do with it? bandy :lol: Now you blame Monica for Serena's loss.. :lol:

well, serena was once again unable to close the deal against the talented 17 year old russian. first wimbledon and now the wta championships. congratulations, maria! well done! that 3rd set comeback was spectacular.

as far as serena's concerned, as unfortunate as it was to watch her struggle in that 3rd set, it somehow became clear that she's a mere ghost of her former self. she seems to be mostly hollywood diva at this point. her champion's focus is slowly giving way to resignation. i think we're witnessing the passing of the torch.


:lol: Dodging the bullet I see....no, because I just found it funny how a fanbase who has a history of blaming happenings of a WHOLE decade on a stabbing come here and say that an injured Serena shouldnīt use the injury as an excuse for the defeat....ironic.

Greatest
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:34 PM
:lol: Dodging the bullet I see....no, because I just found it funny how a fanbase who has a history of blaming happenings of a WHOLE decade on a stabbing come here and say that an injured Serena shouldnīt use the injury as an excuse for the defeat....ironic.

more sour grapes. bandy.. :lol: Maria BEAT Serena back to back..with no stabbing involved. :lol:

I don't think I could've asked for anything better this year," ... "It's been an extraordinary year for me. I know that I'm not showing a lot of emotion, but I'm sort of just speechless...

--------------------------------------- Maria Sharapova
---------------------------------------2004 YEC CHAMPION

bandabou
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:38 PM
more sour grapes. bandy.. :lol: Maria BEAT Serena back to back..with no stabbing involved. :lol:

I don't think I could've asked for anything better this year," ... "It's been an extraordinary year for me. I know that I'm not showing a lot of emotion, but I'm sort of just speechless...

--------------------------------------- Maria Sharapova
---------------------------------------2004 YEC CHAMPION



Fine....why should I be sour? Serena already has a YEC, in fact sheīs already won everything....including two wimbledons.

Maybe her time at the top is over...nothing lasts forever ( donīt believe me, ask you know who: MS) so if itīs another generationīs time to shine, itīs fine with me. Serena already had a complete career: won everything that thereīs to win....now itīs just consolidating.

Greatest
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:42 PM
Fine....why should I be sour? Serena already has a YEC, in fact sheīs already won everything....including two wimbledons.

Maybe her time at the top is over...nothing lasts forever ( donīt believe me, ask you know who: MS) so if itīs another generationīs time to shine, itīs fine with me. Serena already had a complete career: won everything that thereīs to win....now itīs just consolidating.


I'm looking forward to more of Sharapova in 2005 also and some excuse free matches as well!! :lol:

WorldWar24
Nov 16th, 2004, 01:43 PM
Fine....why should I be sour? Serena already has a YEC


which she won a walkover, SO ZIP IT lol

Maria would have won anyway, those 4 games in a row were a fluke coz Maria was stunned. She shouldn't have lost that first set, that was a fluke too :)

bandabou
Nov 16th, 2004, 02:01 PM
which she won a walkover, SO ZIP IT lol

Maria would have won anyway, those 4 games in a row were a fluke coz Maria was stunned. She shouldn't have lost that first set, that was a fluke too :)

Of course....Serena never had a chance in that match....Maria should have double-bageled her. I get it.

bandabou
Nov 16th, 2004, 02:04 PM
I'm looking forward to more of Sharapova in 2005 also and some excuse free matches as well!! :lol:

Me too...looking forward to some Maria vs Monica matches. We already know Mariaīs better than Serena....I wonder how Monica stacks up against Maria...should be a good match-up.

LDVTennis
Nov 16th, 2004, 11:38 PM
Your writing seems familiar....seems like a Monica-fan. So I guess we can just say Monica after ī95 was just beaten....no the stabbing this crap, right?

Good read!

I am sure you are already well aware that in the Greatest's eyes, Sharapova is the next Monica.

You know what I had to say about that. God, I sure hope so. Because if she is, it won't be long before Serena is back on top of the game.

LDVTennis
Nov 16th, 2004, 11:58 PM
Fine....why should I be sour? Serena already has a YEC, in fact sheīs already won everything....including two wimbledons.

Maybe her time at the top is over...nothing lasts forever ( donīt believe me, ask you know who: MS) so if itīs another generationīs time to shine, itīs fine with me. Serena already had a complete career: won everything that thereīs to win....now itīs just consolidating.

No, it may not last forever. But, there is always the chance for a return to glory. Only the best the game has ever seen, however, have managed to do that - Marble, Court, Chris, Martina N., and Graf. Serena certainly has a chance. We'll have to wait and see.

As for Sharapova, the clock is ticking. If she doesn't win all four major events to complete a calendar year grand slam, the year after winning her first major, she can't even claim to be better than Steffi Graf who did just that. With the return of Henin Hardenne next year, I don't think she even has a chance of ending next year as the No. 1 player. Now, that would really put her further behind Graf in the "greatest ever" department.

So, good for her. She won the YEC, but if this is supposed to be her breakthrough year let it be known that it doesn't compare by any means to the breakthrough years of the few players who can honestly lay claim to being one of the "greatest ever," let alone the "greatest ever."

G1Player2
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:09 AM
please stop using injuries as an excuse, Serena got beat, by the end of the year most players are tired and injured, Maria like in wimbledon was just better, suck it up and be a man and stop using excuses.
LOL...Obviously we know that you didn't watch the match...No way is Serena's injury being used as an excuse...She was injured plain and simple and did not retire because she felt she owed it to the fans...

Serena would have won this match no doubt if Serena had been 100%...She almost beat Maria while injured and serving 60 mph...LOL...Sharapova was whacking unforced errors all over the place...Anyone who thinks Sharapova would have won this match if Serena wasn't injured, is delusional, and anyone who says that Serena being injured was an excuse is either stupid, doesn't like Serena, didn't watch the match, or mentall retarded...

Doc
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:12 AM
Going back to the original question........

Serena's injury took effect when Maria had already pulled out to a 5-2 lead in the 2nd set. Serena showed no signs of injury before then. It was then she called for treatment, had a long treatment break, and came out serving weakly - though the rest of her game seemed okay.

Serena claimed after the match that she'd felt the muscle injury from the start, but thought it was only a stitch, which she didn't notice once she started playing.

Anyway serena's 4-0 lead in the final set probably owed a lot to the injury. It forced a change of tactics, and freed her up to hit out and go for quick winners - which she was making for 3 games, while Maria was stunned by events. But once that effort burned out, Maria took over.

However the big turn-around in the match took place at 2-1 to Serena in set 2, long before the injury. So it is by no means certain that an uninjured Serena would have turned the match round again. Since Maria had the momentum before the injury, I think that gives Maria the edge to have taken the Title anyway.

SzavayFi
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:17 AM
Serena

i watched the highlights of the match in HK news,
at mp serena dun even have any power to serve,
which obviously shows she's injured

if she's not i m damn sure she can beat Masha with 6-4 2-6 4-0 lead.

Now masha win, lena fall to no.6 :crying2:
im feelin ya, how sad :sad:

darrinbaker00
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:18 AM
If Serena was well enough to take a 4-0 lead in the third set, then she was well enough to close it out. Period. In fact, if she hadn't been injured, we'd all be using the C-word to describe what happened.

G1Player2
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:24 AM
Going back to the original question........

Serena's injury took effect when Maria had already pulled out to a 5-2 lead in the 2nd set. Serena showed no signs of injury before then. It was then she called for treatment, had a long treatment break, and came out serving weakly - though the rest of her game seemed okay.

Serena claimed after the match that she'd felt the muscle injury from the start, but thought it was only a stitch, which she didn't notice once she started playing.

Anyway serena's 4-0 lead in the final set probably owed a lot to the injury. It forced a change of tactics, and freed her up to hit out and go for quick winners - which she was making for 3 games, while Maria was stunned by events. But once that effort burned out, Maria took over.

However the big turn-around in the match took place at 2-1 to Serena in set 2, long before the injury. So it is by no means certain that an uninjured Serena would have turned the match round again. Since Maria had the momentum before the injury, I think that gives Maria the edge to have taken the Title anyway.
Disagree...An injured Serena got up 4-0...Just imagine what a healthy Serena could have done with her biggest weapon, the serve, fully intact...

Maria was hitting UE's all over the place, especially in that third set...She was erratic throughout and that wouldn't have changed if Serena was healthy...

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:24 AM
No, it may not last forever. But, there is always the chance for a return to glory. Only the best the game has ever seen, however, have managed to do that - Marble, Court, Chris, Martina N., and Graf. Serena certainly has a chance. We'll have to wait and see.

As for Sharapova, the clock is ticking. If she doesn't win all four major events to complete a calendar year grand slam, the year after winning her first major, she can't even claim to be better than Steffi Graf who did just that. With the return of Henin Hardenne next year, I don't think she even has a chance of ending next year as the No. 1 player. Now, that would really put her further behind Graf in the "greatest ever" department.

So, good for her. She won the YEC, but if this is supposed to be her breakthrough year let it be known that it doesn't compare by any means to the breakthrough years of the few players who can honestly lay claim to being one of the "greatest ever," let alone the "greatest ever."


Agreed....thx for you saying that Serena might well have a chance to return to glory. :yeah:

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:31 AM
Going back to the original question........

Serena's injury took effect when Maria had already pulled out to a 5-2 lead in the 2nd set. Serena showed no signs of injury before then. It was then she called for treatment, had a long treatment break, and came out serving weakly - though the rest of her game seemed okay.

Serena claimed after the match that she'd felt the muscle injury from the start, but thought it was only a stitch, which she didn't notice once she started playing.

Anyway serena's 4-0 lead in the final set probably owed a lot to the injury. It forced a change of tactics, and freed her up to hit out and go for quick winners - which she was making for 3 games, while Maria was stunned by events. But once that effort burned out, Maria took over.

However the big turn-around in the match took place at 2-1 to Serena in set 2, long before the injury. So it is by no means certain that an uninjured Serena would have turned the match round again. Since Maria had the momentum before the injury, I think that gives Maria the edge to have taken the Title anyway.

Good point about the turn-around in set two....but I think by the time Maria broke for the second straight time, I think it was evident that the injury was worsening.....donīt know the stats but Serenaīs 1st serve % in that set must have been pretty low.

faboozadoo15
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:32 AM
if there would have been no injury we would be even going into the third set with all momentum to maria. serena built her 4-0 lead because she was clearly going for broke and it was REALLY working. if she went into the set with her health, she would have something (a different perspective) to lose and i really don't think she would have played anything like the way she did at all. just my opinion and all, but if maria could come up with the resolve to finish it in the end, that's all it really took to convince me that she deserved to win.

BlackMoriah
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:40 AM
Disagree...An injured Serena got up 4-0...Just imagine what a healthy Serena could have done with her biggest weapon, the serve, fully intact...

Maria was hitting UE's all over the place, especially in that third set...She was erratic throughout and that wouldn't have changed if Serena was healthy...

Did you watch the same match everyone else was watching?

The fact of the matter is that once Serena got injured, she changed her strategy and started going for broke. That took Maria completely off guide and would have surprised any other oponent to see Serena in such pain to serve, but once the ball was in, she was blasting bullets all over the court.

It is not certain if a physically fit Serena would have used this same strategy or else why not use it at the beginning and leave the court in 20 minutes with a 6-0, 6-0 win?

I also thought this match showed Maria mental toughness and if it was anyone else I'm not sure if they would have had the same result.

As for who would have won the match if Serena was fit, no one can really tell but from the second set I say Maria was having the momentum going into the third set.

Of topic a bit: I found it funny that Serena was experiencing what Elena D goes through every day minus the pain. Hope she can be fit for 2005 though. Good year for her considering all else :worship:

LindsayRocks89
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:40 AM
I think Serena would have won if not have gotten injured

thelittlestelf
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:50 AM
Did Serena got stabbed by a jealous fan of Graf? NO All I'm saying is that Maria beat Serena fair and square on the tennis courts.
No, that's really not what you said.

fammmmedspin
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:57 AM
Who was playing better before she became serve-less =Serena. Who would have played better after that = we don't know (though i would have bet on Serena)

Who would have been in the final if Nastya hadn't gone to sleep on big YEC leads - neither of them.

Conclusion - all outcomes are shaped by more than the quality of tennis people are playing. Some championships produce winners by strange routes.

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 01:16 AM
Who was playing better before she became serve-less =Serena. Who would have played better after that = we don't know (though i would have bet on Serena)

Who would have been in the final if Nastya hadn't gone to sleep on big YEC leads - neither of them.

Conclusion - all outcomes are shaped by more than the quality of tennis people are playing. Some championships produce winners by strange routes.


Thatīs the key....by the time Serena lost two straight service games while barely making a point, trouble was brewing..something HAD to be wrong.

TennisTutor
Nov 17th, 2004, 01:49 AM
If Serena wasn't injured, who do you think should have won the YEC: Masha or Serena?

Please vote and share your viewpoints.

I couldn't watch this match, so I'm very interested to know about your opinion.

Thank you!

Well.
Maria beat Serena very easily in London when she was completely healthy.
I would say she would have beaten her again.

VeNuS#1LoVa
Nov 17th, 2004, 01:56 AM
Putting aside your faves, you ALL know deep down, if yuo watched that Serena would've won..no question.

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:01 AM
But that doesnīt make any any sense, tennistutor.....I mean Serena already won the 1st set, so the matches arenīt comparable.

tennischick
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:08 AM
IMO if Serena had paced herself better after the injury time-out, instead of coming out even more aggressive, she would definitely have won the match. by aggravating the injury even further with hyper-aggressive play, she helped to make the pain worse -- and guarantee a Sharapova win. bad calculation and even worse strategising on Serena's part.

VeraNuVirgosFan
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:29 AM
Well.
Maria beat Serena very easily in London when she was completely healthy.
I would say she would have beaten her again.
But they are different surfaces. And everybody knows that grass is Masha's best surface and this year Masha'd won 100% on grass.

DeDe4925
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:36 AM
If Serena was well enough to take a 4-0 lead in the third set, then she was well enough to close it out. Period. In fact, if she hadn't been injured, we'd all be using the C-word to describe what happened.
:confused: The pain got worse, how can you say that? Geez boo, sometimes I wonder about you. She could have closed it out if she could have served half way decent in the fifth game, but that's kind of hard to do when you have trouble lifting your arm from excrutiating pain. :rolleyes:

DeDe4925
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:36 AM
Serena, hands down.

Doc
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:48 AM
:confused: The pain got worse, how can you say that? Geez boo, sometimes I wonder about you. She could have closed it out if she could have served half way decent in the fifth game, but that's kind of hard to do when you have trouble lifting your arm from excrutiating pain. :rolleyes:

The point is, Serena only had the 4-0 lead because her injury time-out disrupted Maria's momentum, and Serena came out going for broke and swinging. If she hadn't had the injury, things would have gone on pretty much as they were. And Maria had all the momentum before the injury, having just won 4 of the previous 5 games. Serena did not gain the 4-0 lead with her serve.

achamber
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:51 AM
Not again... one in a long line of excuses for losses by a Williams/Williams Fan... So sick of this crap... Serena's simply no longer the best live with it!!!!!!!!!!!!

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:54 AM
I donīt know how youīre talking this like it is for fact, doc...before Serenaīs injury worsened ( probably somewhere in the second set where she lost her serve for the first two times and was barely getting first serves in), Maria was barely getting a hold at Serenaīs serves....she had her chances in the 3rd game, but after that Serena only dropped two or three points in her next three service games.

Itīs highly doubtful that without the injury playing up that Serena would have lost that second-set, let alone 2-6....

fammmmedspin
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:59 AM
Thatīs the key....by the time Serena lost two straight service games while barely making a point, trouble was brewing..something HAD to be wrong.
I think it needs context too. Serena served early like a dog against Nastya and Elena and got better as the matches went on - either that was this injury or another -as it manifested itself as a slow serve then too you tend to think she had this injury in some form since day one of the championships. She went off against Lindsay too. Was that the injury or a Serena meltdown?

You then have to ask what her game was doing before the injury time out and the answer is it was getting worse for several games as Maria was getting better. Was it a Serena meltdown or the injury? How was the serve doing? Looked like an injured serve to me. The injury got worse still in the third set if her serve was an indicator but she got to 4-0 by hitting unreturnable shots - Maria wasn't confused - she was nowhere near the ball. Then Serena collapsed completely.

Don't know if Maria would have played worse or even better without the injury to Serena or if Serena hurt herself more with those pretty silly 122-127 mph serves she hit or if Serena's game would have gone off anyway but that looked like a match where one player was hampered and effectively stopped by a worsening injury.

You have to ask though how did serena turn up with injuries and whether her power causes them.

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 03:15 AM
I think it needs context too. Serena served early like a dog against Nastya and Elena and got better as the matches went on - either that was this injury or another -as it manifested itself as a slow serve then too you tend to think she had this injury in some form since day one of the championships. She went off against Lindsay too. Was that the injury or a Serena meltdown?

You then have to ask what her game was doing before the injury time out and the answer is it was getting worse for several games as Maria was getting better. Was it a Serena meltdown or the injury? How was the serve doing? Looked like an injured serve to me. The injury got worse still in the third set if her serve was an indicator but she got to 4-0 by hitting unreturnable shots - Maria wasn't confused - she was nowhere near the ball. Then Serena collapsed completely.

Don't know if Maria would have played worse or even better without the injury to Serena or if Serena hurt herself more with those pretty silly 122-127 mph serves she hit or if Serena's game would have gone off anyway but that looked like a match where one player was hampered and effectively stopped by a worsening injury.

You have to ask though how did serena turn up with injuries and whether her power causes them.


Good points....I think this injury might have been caused by overreaching while serving...it seems like it was most painful while Serena had to do the motion....this injury was just freaky, donīt think it had anything to do with hitting too hard or anything...maybe just a wrong action while during the stretch or something.

TennisTutor
Nov 17th, 2004, 03:33 AM
But that doesnīt make any any sense, tennistutor.....I mean Serena already won the 1st set, so the matches arenīt comparable.

You know in tennis, momentum can shift back in forth from set to set.
Maria lost the first set to Miskina, came back on won, Miskina took the first set from Serena, was up a break in the second but ended up losing.
The same Miskina who lost to Serena beat Davenport who also beat
Serena.
I know it may sounds like a mess…..
Point being, you can’t always predict a winner based on the first set or even the second.
I saw Maria’s game getting better and Serena’s degrading which in my mind would favor Maria.
Since Serena had all those hard 3 setters I gave Maria the edge to win.
Serena fought hard but her body couldn’t hold up to the grinding.

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 03:52 AM
Couldnīt hold up to serve.....

anton
Nov 17th, 2004, 03:55 AM
serena would have won. this thread can now be locked.

JLDementieva
Nov 17th, 2004, 03:58 AM
Serena, without a doubt

VeraNuVirgosFan
Nov 17th, 2004, 04:07 AM
...this thread can now be locked.
Why?

dreamgoddess099
Nov 17th, 2004, 05:13 AM
Serena:"I was thinking, 'Oh my God, I'm not going to be out six months. I do not want this,’" the American said. "I was thinking, 'Just go easy.' I wasn't going to go for any big serves. It's not worth it with the new year coming around the corner. I was just really trying to chill."

Smart woman to not push it and just let Maria have the match. It certainly wasn't worth the risk of further injuring herself and being out for the start of next year. That's the type of wisdom that only a six time grandslam champion would have. Serena was looking at the big picture and knew she had big plans for 2005. No need to kill herself for the win. She knew she didn't need it.

russophile
Nov 17th, 2004, 05:31 AM
the WHAT IF philosophical question of the day...
MASHA

Sharapova's_Boy
Nov 17th, 2004, 07:21 AM
Maria Sharapova (RUS)

2004 Wimbledon, YEC, Birmingham, Tokyo and Seoul champion. :)

Jan2005
Nov 17th, 2004, 07:47 AM
The injury time out occured at a key time, when Maria had the Big Mo on her side.
For awhile it seemed to work for Serena, but just for awhile.

Greatest
Nov 17th, 2004, 09:18 AM
Thatīs the key....by the time Serena lost two straight service games while barely making a point, trouble was brewing..something HAD to be wrong.

bandy, bandy..Serena Williams lost two straight games because she was facing a REMARKABLE player in Maria Sharapova. In fact, this is her second straight loss to the 17 year old talented teen phenom at a major event.

It was eerie to see the look of resignation on serena's face: she probably knows deep down that at her rate, she'll never hold another slam event trophy again. serena's gotta refocus, recommit to tennis, and leave the 'diva' act and the circus poodle miniskirts behind. this diva thing is killing her focus and commitment to conditioning and fitness. part-time tennis/fitness conditioning is crippling her career.

DemWilliamsGulls
Nov 17th, 2004, 09:23 AM
Hell yeah she was steamrolling that child in the 3rd set....Maria caught a glimpse of The Williams Sisters "Street Ball" Tennis they use to play back in 2001 and 2002. Maria's reaction to it was PRICELESS!!! :lol: LOL Serena gave her a lot of free points with her slow serves and double faults.....dont worry..there will be other times.

xan
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:14 PM
Serena's serve didn't start to deteriorate in speed until AFTER the time-out. At that point Maria was already up 5-2. And serena did not dominate set 1 either. She won by one break of Serve Maria donated her with a DF. Before that, maria had lost 1 point in her first three service games! IMO Serena created her problem by trying to serve 130 mph bombs. (one missed serve hit 129!). Very silly if you already have a niggle.

améliemomo
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:44 PM
defenitly serena.

She dominated sharapova.

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:45 PM
bandy, bandy..Serena Williams lost two straight games because she was facing a REMARKABLE player in Maria Sharapova. In fact, this is her second straight loss to the 17 year old talented teen phenom at a major event.

It was eerie to see the look of resignation on serena's face: she probably knows deep down that at her rate, she'll never hold another slam event trophy again. serena's gotta refocus, recommit to tennis, and leave the 'diva' act and the circus poodle miniskirts behind. this diva thing is killing her focus and commitment to conditioning and fitness. part-time tennis/fitness conditioning is crippling her career.


Of course......donīt worry about Serena. Howīs Monica doing?! Is she ever gonna come back? THAT is the thing you should worry about...

Serena losing to Maria ainīt all that bad....Monica losing in WTT? Now THAT is bad..

twight6
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:47 PM
all i'm saying is to all you people who are like "serena hands down!", lets take a look at the wimbledon final for a moment and think, was serena injured then?

xan
Nov 17th, 2004, 12:56 PM
defenitly serena.

She dominated sharapova.
In your dreams... :zzz: :zzz:


Points Won

-------- Sharapova --- Williams --------

SET 1 ...... 26 .............. 30 .............

SET 2 ...... 30 .............. 22 .............

SET 3 ...... 26 .............. 23 .............

TennisTutor
Nov 17th, 2004, 01:01 PM
The point is, Serena only had the 4-0 lead because her injury time-out disrupted Maria's momentum, and Serena came out going for broke and swinging. If she hadn't had the injury, things would have gone on pretty much as they were. And Maria had all the momentum before the injury, having just won 4 of the previous 5 games. Serena did not gain the 4-0 lead with her serve.

Well said......

Experimentee
Nov 17th, 2004, 01:09 PM
If she got that close to winning when injured, surely she would win when not injured!

Experimentee
Nov 17th, 2004, 01:11 PM
all i'm saying is to all you people who are like "serena hands down!", lets take a look at the wimbledon final for a moment and think, was serena injured then?

That is so stupid. I bet you know it too. Just because a player wins once doesnt mean they will win the next time, especially if they are being dominated by an injured player.

xan
Nov 17th, 2004, 01:18 PM
If she got that close to winning when injured, surely she would win when not injured!
it doesn't work like that.

In a lot of cases one players injury disrupts the other player more, or it frees up the injured player from doubts and pressures.

Serena provides a good case in point when she developed that foot injury in the Semis of the 2003 Australian open. She was losing 1-5 with a string of unforcd errors. After the blisters appeared, she rallied from 1-5 down and won the match against Kim Clijsters.

Greatest
Nov 17th, 2004, 01:20 PM
Of course......donīt worry about Serena. Howīs Monica doing?! Is she ever gonna come back? THAT is the thing you should worry about...

Serena losing to Maria ainīt all that bad....Monica losing in WTT? Now THAT is bad..

You must be bitter, or just crushed..... TWICE IN A ROW...Well, get used to it bandy as the Sharapova domination era has finally began. :lol:

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 02:57 PM
You must be bitter, or just crushed..... TWICE IN A ROW...Well, get used to it bandy as the Sharapova domination era has finally began. :lol:

Bitter?! Please...donīt be pathetic.

Bitterness is only reserved for Monica-fans.

If Maria is better than Serena, Iīve no problem with that.

SharapovaFan16
Nov 17th, 2004, 04:10 PM
see a lot of people say serena because she was up 4-0, but if she wasn't injuered i don't see her being up 4-0 at all. i see it being a close third set. flip a coin. because after serena was injured she went for everything, if she was healthy she wouldn't of done that so you have to look at that. it was a great effort by serena, but a great comeback my masha. serena may turn into one of my fav. players just for her heart. atleast she isn't bitter about some things like fans are.

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 04:22 PM
No one can know.

End of the discussion.


Only sensible conclusion...

Greatest
Nov 17th, 2004, 08:24 PM
Only sensible conclusion...

why is it so hard for serena's fans to just accept this? the girl's got too many outside interests to devote herself completely to tennis. it is obvious to anyone with two eyes, yet her fans still find it easier to excuse her lack of commitment to the sport and point fingers elsewhere. odd.

by the way, what's up with that yellow circus poodle skirt?? bandy :lol:

bandabou
Nov 17th, 2004, 08:38 PM
why is it so hard for serena's fans to just accept this? the girl's got too many outside interests to devote herself completely to tennis. it is obvious to anyone with two eyes, yet her fans still find it easier to excuse her lack of commitment to the sport and point fingers elsewhere. odd.

by the way, what's up with that yellow circus poodle skirt?? bandy :lol:

I suggest you go read the post LDV posted about this matter in the " A little coaching for baby girl"-thread...

Thatīs Serena....the way she is. If she feels like to wear that dress sheīs gonna wear it. Doesnīt matter what you or me think.

G1Player2
Nov 17th, 2004, 10:44 PM
why is it so hard for serena's fans to just accept this? the girl's got too many outside interests to devote herself completely to tennis. it is obvious to anyone with two eyes, yet her fans still find it easier to excuse her lack of commitment to the sport and point fingers elsewhere. odd.

by the way, what's up with that yellow circus poodle skirt?? bandy :lol:
And Maria doesn't have other outside interests? What about after Wimbledon her numerous media outlets such as Good Morning America, The Early Show, MTV, TRL, and photo shoots in Marie Claire, Sports Illustrated, numerous interviews on Regis and Kelly, etc.

Maybe this was one of the reasons Maria was losing so bad during the hardcourt season...Maybe it was these outside interests that kept her losing to players like Mashona Washington, Vera Zvonareva, and Mary Pierce at the US Open while not even reaching a semifinal during the hardcourt season...Was it all these other outside interests such as the media that effected her tennis...

Sure, she did better on the indoor courts, but these are fast surfaces which will suit Maria's game, but surfaces like outdoor hardcourt, clay, and rebound ace all bring out the weaknesses in Maria's game as we have already seen this year...

Jaime Bahena
Nov 17th, 2004, 11:19 PM
Hell yeah she was steamrolling that child in the 3rd set....Maria caught a glimpse of The Williams Sisters "Street Ball" Tennis they use to play back in 2001 and 2002. Maria's reaction to it was PRICELESS!!! :lol: LOL Serena gave her a lot of free points with her slow serves and double faults.....dont worry..there will be other times.

Trust me, everybody's looking forward to "other times." Don't you think Masha is licking her chops, like a rottweiler being fed a t-bone steak after five days of imposed starvation? She knows more than people think about psyching out other players.