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Volcana
Dec 17th, 2001, 06:01 PM
Welcome to the Gambling House!

You have to offer a bet BEFORE you can take one.

Volcana say ...

Bet: 500 words<br />Winner: Venus Williams

Whoever takes that bet has to pick a player as well.

Whoever says ....<br />Winner: Kim

So if Venus wins, 'Whoever' has to write 500 positive, glowing, supportive words about Venus. If Kim wins, I write about Kim. If both players lose its a 'push'.

So it's a series of 1-on-1 bets. You can bet more than one person, but bear in mind the amoount of words required can mount rapidly.

You can withdraw at any time up to opening day. No allowances for withdrawals or injuries. We all know our faves health histories.

You can always offer a bet on a player there's already a bet on. Remember rule #1.

You have to OFFER a bet first.

*******************************<br />*******************************<br />** CURRENT WAGERS AND OFFERS **<br />*******************************

This is where we stand so far.

**** Made Wagers ****

clocker: Serena Williams vs thefreedesigner

Volcana: Venus Williams vs maximus82

maximus82: Lindsay Davenport vs Volcana

thefreedesigner: Martina Hingis vs clocker

griffin: Amelie Mauresmo vs Brian Stewart

Brian Stewart: Chanda Rubin vs griffin

griffin: Amelie Mauresmo (2) vs Williams_Rulez

<br />**** Open Wagers ****

A4: Serena Williams vs _____________

disposablehero: Monica Seles vs ____________

Williams_Rulez: Venus Williams vs _____________

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Volcana ]</p>

Pureracket
Dec 17th, 2001, 06:28 PM
Bet: 500 words<br />Winner: Serena Williams<br />I hope I'm doing it right.

Volcana
Dec 17th, 2001, 07:09 PM
WINNER: Venus Williams

BET: 500 Words

dh - You could take Monica and we'll have go. Course then I'll owe 1000 words if Monica wins.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Dec 17th, 2001, 10:30 PM
Yikes.....I'm not so sure about this.....I hate picking the girls to win cause then they always lose <img src="redface.gif" border="0">

brickhousesupporter
Dec 17th, 2001, 10:34 PM
Volcana,<br />I swear you must love to write. This is good, I look forward to the post.

A4
Dec 17th, 2001, 11:11 PM
okay, volcana. Here goes: I'd say Serena, simply because, if Venus wins, I'll have no trouble at all writing glowing words about her. How do I fit in Capriati? I really hope she makes the semis at least.

A4
Dec 17th, 2001, 11:12 PM
sorry, 500 words for the bet.

Volcana
Dec 17th, 2001, 11:16 PM
A4 - We could start a thread for things other than winning the whole tournament. You could offer 'Capriati makes the semis' as a bet, but no one would take it. She made the semis in all 4 Slams last year.

brick - Someone has to offer a bet before they can take my Venus Williams proffer. And THEIR player has to win. It's not enough for me to lose. And yeah, I like to write.

Volcana
Dec 18th, 2001, 08:09 PM
Okay. I'm a little surprised that only Williams fans have been so far willing to risk even a 500 word essay to back their faith in their fave.

Martina fans<br />Monica fans<br />Lindsay fans

Where art thou?

maximus82
Dec 18th, 2001, 08:21 PM
I'll take you up on that offer Volcana...<br />My predicted winner: Lindsay Davenport

I can't wait to see my girl hoisting that trophy one more time! Getting your five-hundred words will only be the cherry on top ;0)

Here's hoping at least!

~maximus82

Volcana
Dec 18th, 2001, 08:59 PM
You're offering Lindsay, which gives you the opportunity take me on with Venus.

Just remember, for me to have to write, its not enough that Venus lose. Lindsay has to win. I'm thinking about taking the other half of this bet. I don't particularly care for betting against Lindsay.

But if I don't, I might end up in a situation where you aren't risking ANYTHING cause nobody wil bet against Lindsay. Hmmmm .....

thefreedesigner
Dec 19th, 2001, 08:48 AM
Hmm I'm not sure I get this... are we all taking bets against you, Volcana?

If so,

winner: Martina Hingis - 500 words

so if Martina doesn't win (and Venus does) I have to write the 500 essay. Is that how it works?

Isn't 500 words about 2 sides of A4? I'll cope. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

I think it's a fair bet: Martina's one it thrice, but has no form. Venus - when she plays - has great form, but no Oz final appearance. Cool.

Volcana
Dec 19th, 2001, 10:32 AM
thefreedesigner - No you actually alldon't bet me. View it this way. You're OFFERRING anyoine a bet that Hingis will win. By making that offer, you get in the game. Which means you get to TAKE any outstanding offer.

I have no outstanding offer, maximus82 took mine.

Right now, you can take on Clocker, and bet against Serena, or take on maximius82, and bet against Lindsay. Or youcan wait. If no one bets against you, you can't lose.

You only can lose if the player you bet AGAINST wins, since by definition, your player must have lost.

The only way maximus can lose is if Venus wins.

Get it?

thefreedesigner
Dec 19th, 2001, 11:04 AM
thanks for the explanation !!!

In that case, I'll just offer my bet out there to anyone who wants to take it! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Pureracket
Dec 19th, 2001, 01:51 PM
thefreedsinger,<br />I'll take the bet with Serena. You take Hingis.

Make sure you write in 12 point font and 1 inch margins. Thanks

thefreedesigner
Dec 19th, 2001, 02:02 PM
*slightly apprehensive*

Cool.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: thefreedesigner ]</p>

maximus82
Dec 19th, 2001, 02:09 PM
So.....nobody is willing to take my bet that big-D is going to kick some OZ Open booty? C'mon, bring it! :-D

~maximus82

griffin
Dec 19th, 2001, 02:14 PM
Max, Volcana took you on (I think)

If not, I will and bet on Amelie.

Brian Stewart
Dec 19th, 2001, 02:21 PM
Griff, if you're still available, I'll take your Amelie bet, and counter with Chanda.

griffin
Dec 19th, 2001, 02:30 PM
"if I'm available"? Why Brian, I never knew you cared <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> I'll take your bet one way or the other, how's that? Hell, I'll bet Amelie up against pretty much anyone!

Brian Stewart
Dec 19th, 2001, 02:40 PM
It's a deal, Griff! May the best <s>buns</s> player win. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

A4
Dec 19th, 2001, 03:40 PM
Hey thefreedesigner, you're absolutely right, two sides of me. Has to be legible and transparent though.....and I'm not.I'm 2-faced.<br />Volcana, where do I stand now? Since Serena has already been offered and taken? Do I need to change my bet? Boy oh boy, this is even tougher than the grade D I made on my paper last night.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: A4 ]

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: A4 ]</p>

cheeky
Dec 19th, 2001, 04:17 PM
what do oyu mean by if both players lose its a 'push'?

V.S.
Dec 19th, 2001, 05:45 PM
This is a cool challenge. I can't wait to see what the losers have to say about the winners picks!!!!! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Volcana
Dec 19th, 2001, 08:21 PM
I'm going to have to start charting this soon. The chain could get very long.

cheeky - a 'push' means nobody loses.

NOTE: BTW, as long as there is not an outstanding offer on a player, youcan make one. So now that theat Serena Williams offer has been taken, someone else can offer Serena.

maximus82 - I'm going to put my head on the chopping block and go against Lindsay. When I mad this up, I told myself I wasn't betting against Venus, Serena or Lindsay. And now I'm doing it. This is stupid. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> But hey, you bet against the winner of the last two GS titles. I can bet against the 2000 OZ champ.

griffin
Dec 19th, 2001, 08:48 PM
I'm still willing to take on additional bets against Amelie...

disposablehero
Dec 19th, 2001, 11:24 PM
I'll counter you with a Monica, griff. Or Kim, you pick.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: disposablehero ]</p>

Volcana
Dec 19th, 2001, 11:42 PM
A4 - leave your Serena offer. It's the only one out there right now.

Volcana
Dec 19th, 2001, 11:48 PM
This is where we stand so far.

**** Made Wagers ****

clocker: Serena Williams vs thefreedesigner

Volcana: Venus Williams vs maximus82

maximus82: Lindsay Davenport vs Volcana

thefreedesigner: Martina Hingis vs clocker

griffin: Amelie Mauresmo vs Brian Stewart

Brian Stewart: Chanda Rubin vs griffin

griffin: Amelie Mauresmo (2) vs Williams_Rulez

<br />**** Open Wagers ****

A4: Serena Williams vs _____________

disposablehero: Monica Seles vs ____________

Williams_Rulez: Venus Williams vs _____________

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Volcana ]</p>

Volcana
Dec 19th, 2001, 11:52 PM
NOTE: If someone takes your offer, you DO NOT have to take their's. We're puttin gup our faith in our favorites, so it shouldn't matter what the person who bets against us thinks.

If I offer Dokic, and take A4 with Serena (which I will not do) A4 doesn't have to take Dokic.

BTW, if you saw Rollo's "Venus - Second to none" thread, that's the sort of thing I hope to get out of this.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Volcana ]</p>

Williams Rulez
Dec 20th, 2001, 01:35 AM
I offer a Venus Williams against griffin's Amelie <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Volcana
Dec 20th, 2001, 02:08 AM
I think I'll maintian the chart in the first post. Much easier.

Williams Rulez
Dec 20th, 2001, 02:20 AM
My wager is closed. I wagered against griffin. I'm offering only one... for now <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

cynicole
Dec 20th, 2001, 04:01 AM
MASSIVE EDITING DONE

The post that was here is now very irrelevant.

[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: cynicole ]</p>

A4
Dec 20th, 2001, 05:55 AM
Hi there Cynicole<br />I'll take your bet of Henin against mine of Serena, simply cos if Henin wins, I think I can write 500 words about her and rather enjoy doing it. I realise though that I may be bumped off anytime in favour of a 1000-word bet, but I'll take the chance. I think I'll enjoy reading your essay on Serena. Don't be too cynical though.

cynicole
Dec 20th, 2001, 11:26 AM
Hi there A4! <img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="[Wavey]" />

I'll take you up on your bet on Serena. I'm sure I can avoid the cynicism with her. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> If I couldn't, she would be on my restricted list.

BTW - I won't cancel the Henin deal with you unless she gets injured before the Oz Open. I'm only going to cancel the 500 word deals where the "opposition" chooses Henin or Hingis.

So this is a done deal, Volcana. I'm not taking any more bets with people choosing Serena. Other options are open though.

And I change my mind on Jennifer Capriati. I will take Jennifer Capriati challenges.

griffin
Dec 20th, 2001, 01:02 PM
I'll cover dh on Monica (unless you'd rather I take Kim since I thought you already had a Monica bet going with Volcana)

So that means I've got Amelie against Chanda (Brian), Venus (Williams_rules) and Monica (dh), unless I'm missing something (always a real possibility).

[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: griffin ]</p>

cynicole
Dec 20th, 2001, 03:41 PM
I'm still confused. Aren't we essentially going head-to-head with the person we're betting against?

These are two-way bets, right? So if someone pops up saying that they want to challenge my bet on Coetzer with, say, Schynder, I can say "No", I don't have to write about Schnyder if she wins and there's no bet and they're not obligated to write about Coetzer if she wins.

So right now I'm going against A4.<br />If Serena wins, I write about Serena.<br />And if Henin wins, A4 writes about Henin.

And if neither wins <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> no essay gets written.

I've got this right, right?

Volcana
Dec 20th, 2001, 06:50 PM
cynicole, look at it this way.

Offers

Player_1 offering Venus<br />Player_2 offering Lindsay<br />Player_3 offering Jenn

Takes

Player_1 does not take a bet.<br />Player_2 takes Player_1's bet.<br />Player_3 takes Player_2's bet.

Result

Player_1:Venus vs Player_2:Lindsay<br />Player_2:Lindsay vs Player_3:Jenn<br />Player_3:Jenn vs ______________

Player_1 stil has the right to TAKE a bet, not having done so so far. But if Lindsay wins the tournament, Player_1 DOES have to write about Lindsay.

You don't get to choose your poison.

disposablehero
Dec 21st, 2001, 02:05 AM
Yep, griff, I'll stick with Monica. I don't have a bet with Volcana, as she already made a unilateral guarantee before this started. Anyhow, at the rate you are going Amelie will HAVE to be the winner to keep you from writing. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

cynicole
Dec 21st, 2001, 03:41 AM
Well, Volcana, since I can't really choose the possible venom (now that I see how the rules work), I think I may pull out any available offers now. I'll keep the bet with A4 though.

Editing to be done to earlier post...

griffin
Dec 21st, 2001, 01:30 PM
pft! disposable, at the rate I'm going this board will be overflowing with praise for Amelie come the end of January <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Even so, it would harldy cause me pain to write 500 words in celebration of Chanda, Venus or Monica.

Volcana
Dec 21st, 2001, 03:24 PM
cynicole - Don't worry about it. Any confusion is a result of me doing a poor job explaining. I'll use this tournament as an experiment. I'll see how it goes, and learn from it. I'll try again at Roland Garros. It'll probably take a few tries to streamline it. The important thing is, now we get to look forward to some essays by people on subjects they usually wouldn't write about.

We'll get some great stuff I'm sure.

Volcana
Dec 21st, 2001, 03:31 PM
NOTE: I'll compile all the wagers tonight.

Betting will then close til January 2, 2002.

I'll be on vacation and if I leave it open, by the time I get back, it will be un-collate-able. Betting will then re-open til the day before opening round matches.

cynicole
Dec 21st, 2001, 04:55 PM
Well Volcana, I'll help you out a bit with the streamlining by listing my reservations about the current system. Just some things to consider:

1. There are players I simply would not feel comfortable writing about. I don't hate any players but under time constraints some players are much easier "material" for me than others. I probably could write 1000 words on Hingis in a matter of hours and still go over...but 500 on Clijsters would take a far more considerable amount of time. And if someone chooses a player I know nothing about it would be a chore. (I know journalists would write a myriad of articles about whoever is the Slam winner but one tourney isn't enough to make me familiar with a player and their game. And if I read those articles I'd probably end up plagiarising!) I feel that if someone is betting against me they at least deserve a fully honest, glowing appraisal of their pick which could be delivered in a timely manner. (I liken it to betting 100 American dollars versus 100 Australian dollars.)

2. I like to spread my bets. I want to be able to place multiple bets (or maybe one huge field bet) on pint-sized dynamos. But if I put bets on Coetzer, Henin, Schnyder and Hingis and I'm not allowed to attach my own set of "conditions" someone betting on Venus could easily challenge each and every one of them. And if Venus wins I'd end up owing 2000 words!

If I had known how the current system worked, I would've stuck to the only "safe bet" I could compell myself to make: Hingis. Honestly, I don't think Henin or Coetzer even have a shot at a semifinal. (Please surprise me, girls!) But it would be nice to get an essay on them if they win and I certainly wouldn't mind having to write about Serena or Monica (or whoever I don't restrict) if any of them end up hoisting the trophy. It's like placing a small, friendly bet. Like betting a friend in Baltimore a lobster dinner and they bet crab cakes. I don't mind losing so much and the other person is getting a good meal. It's more like giving a gift.

I guess it's obvious that I don't really display that much confidence in any of my faves. (I'm a Boston Red Sox fan after all. I think we're programmed that way. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> ) Would be nice though. If I were really betting, I'd back a Williams or Davenport but I don't really care to receive an essay about them...though I wouldn't mind writing about Serena. (In baseball land, I would have to bet on the gawddamn Yankees...but there's no way in hell I would ever do such a thing! <img src="graemlins/firey.gif" border="0" alt="[Fiery]" /> )

I understand though that this is your game and you could craft it any way you like. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

griffin
Dec 21st, 2001, 05:12 PM
Hey cynicole - I have a bet for you (if you can take it before Volcana gets back <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> ) - one Sufferin' Sox fan to another:

I take Amelie, you take Hingis...

cynicole
Dec 21st, 2001, 05:24 PM
Hi griffin <img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="[Wavey]" />

It's a deal.

My bet: Martina Hingis - 500 words<br />Your bet: Amelie Mauresmo - 500 words

Cool. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

Volcana
Dec 21st, 2001, 05:33 PM
cynicole - Gambling on the web without money is tricky. What's risk? What do people value? What do you use in place of money? In this case, having to write about players you don't want to is literally the currency. That's what creates risk. You said it yourself, paying up can be hard in this game.

I've come to realize that this is reall a game where everyone place TWO bets, not one. The first bet is the offer. That's the one, where you don't know who you get stuck with. AND youget a chance to go against someone else's offer. In that case, you know what you're risking. If two folks bet against each other for both bets, it takes the unknown out of it. Which, in fact, is the way most of the bets have worked so far. Which menas the game has to have room for it. I'll work on that.

I had kind of envsioned these long chain multiple dependency bets, but I see now I need a better management system. And I definitely think I'll stick to tournament wins til I get the bugs worked out.

Volcana
Dec 21st, 2001, 05:36 PM
BTW - I'm thinking of opening up a betting thread on which unseeded players make it to the 4th round at OZ. Betting would open when the seeds were released. Do you think that could work? Would it be better if it was the 3rd round?

cynicole
Dec 21st, 2001, 09:52 PM
Volcana - Good luck on your unseeded player game. Here's a bit of perspective:

Australian Open<br />Furthest Round Reached By An Unseeded Player: 4th Round<br />Players: 6 - Daja Bedanova, Rita Grande, Justine Henin, Marta Marrero, Barbara Rittner, Paola Suarez

Roland Garros<br />Furthest Round Reached By An Unseeded Player: Quarterfinals<br />Players: 3 - Lina Krasnoroutskaya, Petra Mandula, Francesca Schiavone

Wimbledon<br />Furthest Round Reached By An Unseeded Player: 4th Round<br />Players: 1 - Nadia Petrova

U.S. Open<br />Furthest Round Reached By An Unseeded Player: Quarterfinals<br />Players: 1 - Daja Bedanova

It looks like 32 seeds does make a difference.

griffin
Jan 2nd, 2002, 02:41 PM
BUMP! (anything that gets people writing positive commentary about players other than their faves is a good thing in my book <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> )

thefreedesigner
Jan 2nd, 2002, 02:54 PM
The unseeded players bet looks could, but could become tricky, as there will be pretty short odds on a lot of the unseeded players.

Would be interested to see how that one pans out though.

Brian Stewart
Jan 2nd, 2002, 04:38 PM
Considering that the ranks of the unseeded will contain 4 players who have had success here, Pierce (former champ), Martinez (finalist), Rubin (semifinalist), and Kournikova (quarterfinalist), and all are coming back off of lengthy injuries, there could be a lot of interesting things happening.

cynicole
Jan 24th, 2002, 06:53 AM
Bump!

Who's still in?

Looks like disposablehero, thefreedesigner and me.

Did anyone bet on Clijsters or Jen?