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View Full Version : "Study. That's all. You're not picking cotton.", Cosby to black students


Wendy Williams
Oct 14th, 2004, 11:31 AM
Bill Cosby has a point and I agree with some of it because I did grow up in Ocean Township. However I got two words for Mr. Cosby. AUTUMN JACKSON. Luxuriate in that Mr. Huxtable!


Bill Cosby Urges Black Students to Study

By BOB LEWIS, Associated Press Writer

RICHMOND, Va. - Bill Cosby (news) spoke bluntly to students at Richmond's mostly black public schools Monday, urging them to dedicate themselves to graduation, not gangs, and to control anger that threatens to derail their dreams.

Cosby toured four schools with former Gov. L. Douglas Wilder, who is running for mayor. But instead of talking politics, Cosby stuck to his no-nonsense message to inner-city black children that at times has made him the target of criticism.

"Study. That's all. It's not tough. You're not picking cotton. You're not picking up the trash. You're not washing windows. You sit down. You read. You develop your brain," Cosby pleaded at Fred D. Thompson Middle School, where 65 percent of the 700 students meet low-income criteria for free or reduced-price lunches.

There and at George Wythe High School, the 67-year-old actor and comedian implored black children in their teens to begin studying in groups, for girls not to allow themselves to get pregnant and for boys not to compensate for love they lack at home with gangs or sex.

"I'd like to tell you I don't think things have changed since I was 14," Cosby said. "There are still old people who drink, do drugs — who will stop and take the time to tell you don't be like them. Have you heard them? Pay attention to them."

Cosby mentioned sex and an auditorium packed with sixth- through eighth-graders buzzed with laughter, catcalls and whistles. Then he mentioned algebra and the room momentarily quieted.

"Everybody knows about sex. Not too many people want to know about algebra," he said.

"Let's think about love. Let's think about where it is and where you can get it, but not sex. You're too young for sex," he said, joking with the children. "You don't have sex 'til you're 50 years old. What, that's too old? Well how about 49?"

In urging young blacks to find self-worth in academics, Cosby's comments were similar to those he made in May in Washington, D.C., when he upbraided some inner-city blacks for squandering opportunities won in the civil rights movement.

Cosby was criticized by some black activsits, just as Wilder has been in speaking bluntly in his mayoral race about black poverty, joblessness, crime and what he says is a lack of black leadership in this city of about 195,000.

Wilder and Cosby, however, said the visit grew out of their longtime friendship and its timing three weeks before election day had nothing to do with politics. Wilder, who in 1990 became the nation's first elected black governor, and Cosby, who helped desegregate prime-time television in the 1960s, said Cosby's appearance was not a tacit endorsement. Cosby said he wouldn't consider endorsing Wilder without first meeting his opponents.

"This is not a campaign piece," Wilder said. "I don't think it helps my campaign, I don't think it hurts my campaign."

With a national political portfolio, Wilder's campaign treasury and fame dwarf those of his opponents, including incumbent Mayor Rudolph McCollum.

Cosby was annoyed at the political speculation.

"I'm not running for any office and I think that Gov. Wilder — let's all face it — would not need to set up a smoke screen in order to get the two of us to get some kind of publicity," Cosby said.

Stamp Paid
Oct 14th, 2004, 03:39 PM
Why does Cosby just assume that every poor black will automatically fall into those traps?

I wish he could be more encouraging to the youth.

esquímaux
Oct 14th, 2004, 04:02 PM
Bill? http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/5.gif

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 04:09 PM
I don't care about his sex life or extra -marital affairs, but Bill Cosby is right--- maybe a lil harsh, but this is what black youth need to hear. If they hear it often enough , their lives will turn out just right. I am an American citizen who is originally from the Caribbean and let me tell you, the attitude of "some" black American youth and "some" American black folk in general kills me :rolleyes: Most Caribbean/West Indian people of African decent come to this country and find a way to get that education and make it , what's holding those born on this soil back??

Discuss :p

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 04:41 PM
I don't care about his sex life or extra -marital affairs, but Bill Cosby is right--- maybe a lil harsh, but this is what black youth need to hear. If they hear it often enough , their lives will turn out just right. I am an American citizen who is originally from the Caribbean and let me tell you, the attitude of "some" black American youth and "some" American black folk in general kills me :rolleyes: Most Caribbean/West Indian people of African decent come to this country and find a way to get that education and make it , what's holding those born on this soil back??

Discuss :p

Whites in the US didn't enslave immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean and they do not hold the same negative opinions about them as they do American born blacks.

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 04:44 PM
Why does Cosby just assume that every poor black will automatically fall into those traps?

I wish he could be more encouraging to the youth.

Because he is a snob. Always has been, always will be. He even looks down on middle-class blacks like myself.:rolleyes:

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 04:51 PM
Whites in the US didn't enslave immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean and they do not hold the same negative opinions about them as they do American born blacks.

As if blacks in the Caribbean were not enslaved by whites. :rolleyes: How the hell did you think they got to the Caribbean/West Indies anyway?? Keep holding onto this slavery grudge-- it will sure get you ahead :tape:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 04:55 PM
As if blacks in the Caribbean were not enslaved by whites. :rolleyes: How the hell did you think they got to the Caribbean/West Indies anyway?? Keep holding onto this slavery grudge-- it will sure get you ahead :tape:
Were blacks enslaved by whites in the Caribbean or in America?:rolleyes:

I am very well aware of how blacks got the Caribbean.:rolleyes:

It is not a grudge; it is the truth; most whites hold negative opinions about American born blacks and it all has to do with racial hatred, not anyting we did to them. BTW, I have a college degree, something 70% of whites in America don't have.

Stamp Paid
Oct 14th, 2004, 04:58 PM
As if blacks in the Caribbean were not enslaved by whites. :rolleyes: How the hell did you think they got to the Caribbean/West Indies anyway?? Keep holding onto this slavery grudge-- it will sure get you ahead :tape:

Yes, and I'm sure every black in the West Indies is hard working and honest and loving and beautiful and just lives the ideal existence, and African Americans are the only bad Africans in the Diaspora. :rolleyes:

You are right, most of the blacks from the Caribbean come to this country to work hard and achieve a better life, but what about the poor, lazy ones who stayed in their home nations?

I'm sure if only the ambitious, hard working African Americans could move somewhere better like West Indians can by coming to the US, you would not make such statements. I'm sure if we dropped the entire island of Jamaica with all its inhabitants in Virginia, they will not all be ambitious and hardworking.

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:02 PM
Yes, and I'm sure every black in the West Indies is hard working and honest and loving and beautiful and just lives the ideal existence, and African Americans are the only bad Africans in the Diaspora. :rolleyes:

You are right, most of the blacks from the Caribbean come to this country to work hard and achieve a better life, but what about the poor, lazy ones who stayed in their home nations?

I'm sure if only the ambitious, hard working African Americans could move somewhere better like West Indians can by coming to the US, you would not make such statements. I'm sure if we dropped the entire island of Jamaica with all its inhabitants in Virginia, they will not all be ambitious and hardworking.


That is the poblem with most Caribbean blacks that come to America; most of them look down their nose at American born blacks it isn't even funny.

Stamp Paid
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:05 PM
That is the poblem with most Caribbean blacks that come to America; most of them look down their nose at American born blacks it isn't even funny.

I find that is the case with native-born Africans as well. Its sad. :sad: We all "wear the mask", as Paul Lawrence Dunbar says.

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:07 PM
I find that is the case with native-born Africans as well. Its sad. :sad: We all "wear the mask", as Paul Lawrence Dunbar says.

That's true too, but it is worse with Caribbean born blacks.

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:12 PM
That is the poblem with most Caribbean blacks that come to America; most of them look down their nose at American born blacks it isn't even funny.

What rubbish!! When anyone from another race sees a black person on the street, they can't tell where the hell they're from-- they just see a black person dammit. I am not turning my nose down at American blacks, but merely pointing out what is evident and speaking from experience. I just want to know why it's even possible for immigrants to come to this country and make it, yet Americans themselves can't. :shrug: Anyway, keep making those excuses :rolleyes:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:19 PM
What rubbish!! When anyone from another race sees a black person on the street, they can't tell where the hell they're from-- they just see a black person dammit. I am not turning my nose down at American blacks, but merely pointing out what is evident and speaking from experience. I just want to know why it's even possible for immigrants to come to this country and make it, yet Americans themselves can't. :shrug: Anyway, keep making those excuses :rolleyes:

Just open your mouth and any whtie person can tell the difference between American born blacks and Caribbean born ones.:rolleyes:

Again, not excuse making, just telling the truth, which if you were born in America, you would know. And if you were not so ignorant, you would know that most blacks have high school diplomas, 1 out of 5 attend college and most work.:rolleyes:

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:36 PM
Just open your mouth and any whtie person can tell the difference between American born blacks and Caribbean born ones.:rolleyes:

Again, not excuse making, just telling the truth, which if you were born in America, you would know. And if you were not so ignorant, you would know that most blacks have high school diplomas, 1 out of 5 attend college and most work.:rolleyes:


The nerve of you to call anyone ignorant lizchris. :rolleyes: Who cares about accents?? Not that I am expecting it, but give me a valid reason why 7 out of 10 West Indian/Caribbean people can come to America and make it while Americans can't/ don't. Personally , I believe it's not about slavery,but about priorities - DAMMIT and the FACT that West Indian/Caribbean people don't think that anyone owes them anything. They believe in hardwork PERIOD-- And that's the bottom-line lischris :tape:

Paneru
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:37 PM
I find that is the case with native-born Africans as well. Its sad. :sad: We all "wear the mask", as Paul Lawrence Dunbar says.

Not all but some.

My cousin goes went to college at Temple University
in Philly and he to was surprised at how snobbish some
of the native-born African's to the American born blacks.

He tired to be firen them but, they often simply stuck
to each other not wanting to have anything to do with him
so he just said skip 'em.

He has traveled and met some native-born African students
and people who were very kind and said not everyone is like that.

I think it comes down to the individual person.
Getting to know people and realizing just because you've
had some bad experiences with certain people not all are like that.

Now, with the Cosby thing, I understand where he's coming from
I however think the way in which he uses to translate those feelings
puts some people immediately on the defensive because they feel more
attacked than him really trying to speak and not making blanket statements.

When you put people immediately on the defensive
more than not that's just when they stop listening and noth
you say really gets heard or takes hold of the conciousness and
help the situation.

I think things have to be looked from all angles.
What, where, when, why, how.
Also, cause and effect.

I think it's much more complicated than just saying any
one thing and years and years of feelings of anger, oppression,
disenfranchisement, hopelessness, ect...need to be addressed
and be brought to some kind of understanding before things change.

You will get nothing but anger, hostility, and fighting, unless
all angles are examined and responsibility is layed on every part
(cause, effect, & self), not just simply making blanket statements
and simply leave what seems to be many people feeling attacked
by someone whom they may feel is out of touch with reality of
the many spectrums of their world.

Things are never so simple as some would have them be.

This is just my opinion wheather
anyone agrees or not.

I have no desire to argue
with anyone and won't be.

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:43 PM
The nerve of you to call anyone ignorant lizchris. :rolleyes: Who cares about accents?? Not that I am expecting it, but give me a valid reason why 7 out of 10 West Indian/Caribbean people can come to America and make it while Americans can't/ don't. Personally , I believe it's not about slavery,but about priorities - DAMMIT and the FACT that West Indian/Caribbean people don't think that anyone owes them anything. They believe in hardwork PERIOD-- And that's the bottom-line lischris :tape:

So blacks form the Caribbean believe in hard work and the black whoare born here DON'T. I'd love for you to explalin to me how this country was built if blacks were lazy. (Again, the looking down of the nose I was talking about).

The only thing anyone owes me is to leave me, my money and my family the hell alone. If no one can do that, then we have a problem.

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:48 PM
Not all but some.

My cousin goes went to college at Temple University
in Philly and he to was surprised at how snobbish some
of the native-born African's to the American born blacks.

He tired to be firen them but, they often simply stuck
to each other not wanting to have anything to do with him
so he just said skip 'em.

He has traveled and met some native-born African students
and people who were very kind and said not everyone is like that.

I think it comes down to the individual person.
Getting to know people and realizing just because you've
had some bad experiences with certain people not all are like that.

Now, with the Cosby thing, I understand where he's coming from
I however think the way in which he uses to translate those feelings
puts some people immediately on the defensive because they feel more
attacked than him really trying to speak and not making blanket statements.

When you put people immediately on the defensive
more than not that's just when they stop listening and noth
you say really gets heard or takes hold of the conciousness and
help the situation.

I think things have to be looked from all angles.
What, where, when, why, how.
Also, cause and effect.

I think it's much more complicated than just saying any
one thing and years and years of feelings of anger, oppression,
disenfranchisement, hopelessness, ect...need to be addressed
and be brought to some kind of understanding before things change.

You will get nothing but anger, hostility, and fighting, unless
all angles are examined and responsibility is layed on every part
(cause, effect, & self), not just simply making blanket statements
and simply leave what seems to be many people feeling attacked
by someone whom they may feel is out of touch with reality of
the many spectrums of their world.

Things are never so simple as some would have them be.

This is just my opinion wheather
anyone agrees or not.

I have no desire to argue
with anyone and won't be.

You're exactly right.

No one said he wasn't wrong, but his snobbishness and blanket statements about ALL black children is what bothers me the most. It also bothers me tht he just keeps complaining about the problem and not coming up with solutions.

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:51 PM
Thanks my fellow West Indian bajangurl :kiss: Anyway, you are correct. A lot is changing with the West Indian/Caribbean population ( trust me I know a few kids who became wayward ) , but for the most part they still believe in working hard, and getting educated FIRST, and FOREMOST. I'm not in any way putting black Americans down, I just want them to succeed just like immigrants do DAMMIT.

Every year at Christmas time I get to know new families who have moved down here (SW Florida) from up North .( You know this is the time we love to party (parang) ), so we all get together. Many of these families have been in the US for less than 20 years and you should see their houses :eek: and mind you, their kids are all educated (doctors, lawyers, pharmacist, you name it) as well. It's just baffling to me that "some" American born blacks can't get it together.

Paneru
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:52 PM
kabuke- its quite interesting that black Americans will see Africans or people from the Carribean as 'arrogant' or looking down at them and to some extent that is true but i still feel that it has a lot to do with black americans', insecurities and inferiority complexes that are instilled in them by having to deal with a country that is theirs but yet not really in their power.

In my cousin's case, he's a very outgoing person who is
quite sure of himself and from the little town that he was
from and never having traveled until he went off to college
this situation wasn't on his or any of our radar's.

So, he had no preconcieved notions about who was what.
In his case he simply tried to befirend this certain group
of guys who simply brushed him off on more than on
occassion and he had no clue why. He was told by
some other's that that's how those guys were, they
acted as if they were better and he just let it be.

However, in his travel he learned that not all of them are
like that and it simply comes down to individual's and not
judging everyone because of what he experienced with
these group of guys.

Now as for the insecurity and inferiority complex,
all that I could come up with to that was that these people
actually were born on the continent and as much as "I" may
have been through in America they could've and may have been
through much worse. Maybe some native-African's feel that or maybe
some American born black project that on to them.

I really don't know.

I simply leave it to not judging an
entire group of people based on a few
and knowing that not everyone of that
group is like that.

That's all I can say really.

It's nice to have a discussion w/o
it turning into an argument and insults.

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 05:53 PM
kabuke- its quite interesting that black Americans will see Africans or people from the Carribean as 'arrogant' or looking down at them and to some extent that may be true but i still feel that it has a lot to do with black americans', insecurities and inferiority complexes that are instilled in them by having to deal with a country that is theirs but yet not really in their power.

PREACH :kiss: :wavey:

Sally Struthers
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:00 PM
Most Caribbean/West Indian people of African decent come to this country and find a way to get that education and make it , what's holding those born on this soil back??

Discuss :p

Welfare. Why work and go to school when someone else will pick up the tab for you? :(

*JR*
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:00 PM
I'm glad that unlike other "Cosby threads" here, this one pays little attention to his personal life. (That would be like judging the Clinton Administration by Monica Lewinsky and his other extra-marital activities).

CoryAnnAvants#1
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:03 PM
Wow...and he's actually speaking at my college (Ohio Wesleyan) next Saturday:eek:

Wigglytuff
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:09 PM
As if blacks in the Caribbean were not enslaved by whites. :rolleyes: How the hell did you think they got to the Caribbean/West Indies anyway?? Keep holding onto this slavery grudge-- it will sure get you ahead :tape:

ignorance in all its splendor!!

would you say the same to Jewish people about the Holocaust thing?
or to any other group of people ho have suffered mass genocide and just pure cruelty? really!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


back to bill, i LOVE how he goes on these big speeches about all that is wrong with black folk, but never once mentions the ONE OF BIGGEST AND MOST SERIOUS CAUSES of the problems he mentions.....THE EXODUS OF THE BLACK MIDDLE AND UPPER CLASS. the devasting and harsh impact that has had on the larger black community, the fact that its doctors and lawyers and teachers have all moved out! i wanna talk about that bill.



but of course looking at things from a holistic and historical perspective as well as acknowledging the role that he has played to help the black underclass (NONE) is really irrelevant :rolleyes:

i have said it before and i will say again, its self-serving and counter productive to preach too and about people you don't ACTIVELY help or hell care to understand. because really he is oversimplifying and vilifying the black underclass while DOING, nothing to understand their condition or provide them with tools or ACCESS. not to mention the fact that much of his rants, most of his rants about the black underclass are not about issues exclusive to the black underclass. and that alot, if not most, of these issues have more to do with class than with race.

blah! its all really pointless, he disdains the black underclass. period. he does not talk about the mother who works two jobs to raise her kids alone or fights to get them put in advance placement classes. or the "b" student who takes out 50K in loans to afford college or the student who elects (god forbid) to not go to college at all and goes to a professional trainning school, same massage therapy, on bank loans and crdeit cards (as on of my friends did), no thats not the black underclass that exists in bills world.

kiwifan
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:10 PM
What rubbish!! When anyone from another race sees a black person on the street, they can't tell where the hell they're from-- they just see a black person dammit. I am not turning my nose down at American blacks, but merely pointing out what is evident and speaking from experience. I just want to know why it's even possible for immigrants to come to this country and make it, yet Americans themselves can't. :shrug: Anyway, keep making those excuses :rolleyes:
I've got a couple of relatives that ain't worth shit but I'll put my extended family (brothers, uncles, aunts, cousins) up against any family of any race anytime with pride.

Plenty of black Americans can and have made it.*

Plenty of Carribean/African Blacks are drug dealing, stealing and murdering scum.

Plenty of Carribean/African blacks can and have made it.*

Plenty of black Americans are drug dealing, stealing and murdering scum.

Plenty of White Americans are drug dealing, stealing and murdering scum.

Plenty of White Americans can and have made it.*

Lets not talk it absolutes.

I have several African friends (mainly Kenyans, Nigerians and from Ghana) and they've told me that it goes both ways.

Africans will sell that, "I don't know why your blacks can't behave" bullshit to the people (usually white) who are looking to hear that noise. On the other hand those people (usually white) will also start it telling Africans/Carribeans "damn you guys are so easy to get along with and you work so hard; not like 'our blacks' " and it isn't the African's job to dispell that noise because they're just trying to get a job. As for education (over education :p ) my Mom's ex-boyfriend was from Ghana and as long as he stayed in school he could stay in the USA :devil: .

You can bet your ass that my man loved to learn shit. :lol: :lol: :tape:

If local youth were faced with learn or get out, they'd all learn. ;)

In this non debate no one wins because no one's better or works harder than any body else. People are just falling into stereotypes.


*"made it" defined as starting out with little or nothing and reaching a self sufficient middle class or better existence. :cool: :cool: :cool:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:15 PM
ignorance in all its splendor!!

would you say the same to Jewish people about the Holocaust thing?
or to any other group of people ho have suffered mass genocide and just pure cruelty? really!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


back to bill, i LOVE how he goes on these big speeches about all that is wrong with black folk, but never once mentions the ONE OF BIGGEST AND MOST SERIOUS CAUSES of the problems he mentions.....THE EXODUS OF THE BLACK MIDDLE AND UPPER CLASS. the devasting and harsh impact that has had on the larger black community, the fact that its doctors and lawyers and teachers have all moved out! i wanna talk about that bill.



but of course looking at things from a holistic and historical perspective as well as acknowledging the role that he has played to help the black underclass (NONE) is really irrelevant :rolleyes:

i have said it before and i will say again, its self-serving and counter productive to preach too and about people you don't ACTIVELY help or hell care to understand. because really he is oversimplifying and vilifying the black underclass while DOING, nothing to understand their condition or provide them with tools or ACCESS. not to mention the fact that much of his rants, most of his rants about the black underclass are not about issues exclusive to the black underclass. and that alot, if not most, of these issues have more to do with class than with race.

blah! its all really pointless, he disdains the black underclass. period. he does not talk about the mother who works two jobs to raise her kids alone or fights to get them put in advance placement classes. or the "b" student who takes out 50K in loans to afford college or the student who elects (god forbid) to not go to college at all and goes to a professional trainning school, same massage therapy, on bank loans and crdeit cards (as on of my friends did), no thats not the black underclass that exists in bills world.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:16 PM
ignorance in all its splendor!!

would you say the same to Jewish people about the Holocaust thing?
or to any other group of people ho have suffered mass genocide and just pure cruelty? really!!!

HELL yes, you don't see Jewish people using the holocaust as an excuse on a daily basis (and don't even talk about their race) :rolleyes:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:16 PM
I've got a couple of relatives that ain't worth shit but I'll put my extended family (brothers, uncles, aunts, cousins) up against any family of any race anytime with pride.

Plenty of black Americans can and have made it.*

Plenty of Carribean/African Blacks are drug dealing, stealing and murdering scum.

Plenty of Carribean/African blacks can and have made it.*

Plenty of black Americans are drug dealing, stealing and murdering scum.

Plenty of White Americans are drug dealing, stealing and murdering scum.

Plenty of White Americans can and have made it.*

Lets not talk it absolutes.

I have several African friends (mainly Kenyans, Nigerians and from Ghana) and they've told me that it goes both ways.

Africans will sell that, "I don't know why your blacks can't behave" bullshit to the people (usually white) who are looking to hear that noise. On the other hand those people (usually white) will also start it telling Africans/Carribeans "damn you guys are so easy to get along with and you work so hard; not like 'our blacks' " and it isn't the African's job to dispell that noise because they're just trying to get a job. As for education (over education :p ) my Mom's ex-boyfriend was from Ghana and as long as he stayed in school he could stay in the USA :devil: .

You can bet your ass that my man loved to learn shit. :lol: :lol: :tape:

If local youth were faced with learn or get out, they'd all learn. ;)

In this non debate no one wins because no one's better or works harder than any body else. People are just falling into stereotypes.


*"made it" defined as starting out with little or nothing and reaching a self sufficient middle class or better existence. :cool: :cool: :cool:


:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Paneru
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:16 PM
I don't care about his sex life or extra -marital affairs, but Bill Cosby is right--- maybe a lil harsh, but this is what black youth need to hear. If they hear it often enough , their lives will turn out just right. I am an American citizen who is originally from the Caribbean and let me tell you, the attitude of "some" black American youth and "some" American black folk in general kills me :rolleyes: Most Caribbean/West Indian people of African decent come to this country and find a way to get that education and make it , what's holding those born on this soil back??

Discuss :p

In sticking out your tounge and
what not (not pretaining to whomever you were talking with)
you won't be getting a productive conversation when you
roll your eyes and make insults, wheather that was you intention
or not.

To answer the question, all I can say is that for the native-born African's
coming to America gives them a better chance and better opportunity for
a btter life maybe more than where most came from.

I think maybe for some of the American born blacks carry some of the predjudices and negative things from the past. Meaning feelings and
perceptions that were really never addressed but passed on down
through the generations.

I think that mixed with the effects of slavery(feelings and some oppressions),
an apathy developing from the feeling of hopelessness, and the oppression and obstacles that do exist in this country today despite the many strides made.

Maybe dealing with all of that as opposed to having not this maybe prehaps same situtation and coming in with one focused goal which is making it better
than it was across seas and maybe not having felt and been through the specific social stigma's and stereotypes that are still held in the country today by not only people outside of the black race but of people inside as well.

I don't think passing judgement, talking down, or insulting people is the way to bring about a concious awareness and change to the enitre complex situation.

I don't think things can change until all the "unspoken" things that are assumed dead or just not spoken about come out.

In America we have a tendancy to think if things aren't
addressed they'll simply disappear.

Also, the delivery in a message and who it is that is
delivering that message I think has a major impact.

Again, this is simply my view and I think that for American born
blacks their are so many issues and feelings that have never been
resolved and are open wounds that haven't been allowed to heal.

Their needs to be less judgment I think and more understanding
and talking, as well as looking at everything from every possible
vantage point.

It's much easier said than done.
This is just what I think.

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:17 PM
HELL yes, you don't see Jewish people using the holocaust as an excuse on a daily basis (and don't even talk about their race) :rolleyes:

I wasn't aware that 13% of the population was using slavery, Jim Crow, racism (overt and subtle) as an excuse on a daily basis.:rolleyes:

But you are not a snob.:haha:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:18 PM
In sticking out your tounge and
what not (not pretaining to whomever you were talking with)
you won't be getting a productive conversation when you
roll your eyes and make insults, wheather that was you intention
or not.

To answer the question, all I can say is that for the native-born African's
coming to America gives them a better chance and better opportunity for
a btter life maybe more than where most came from.

I think maybe for some of the American born blacks carry some of the predjudices and negative things from the past. Meaning feelings and
perceptions that were really never addressed but passed on down
through the generations.

I think that mixed with the effects of slavery(feelings and some oppressions),
an apathy developing from the feeling of hopelessness, and the oppression and obstacles that do exist in this country today despite the many strides made.

Maybe dealing with all of that as opposed to having not this maybe prehaps same situtation and coming in with one focused goal which is making it better
than it was across seas and maybe not having felt and been through the specific social stigma's and stereotypes that are still held in the country today by not only people outside of the black race but of people inside as well.

I don't think passing judgement, talking down, or insulting people is the way to bring about a concious awareness and change to the enitre complex situation.

I don't think things can change until all the "unspoken" things that are assumed dead or just not spoken about come out.

In America we have a tendancy to think if things aren't
addressed they'll simply disappear.

Also, the delivery in a message and who it is that is
delivering that message I think has a major impact.

Again, this is simply my view and I think that for American born
blacks their are so many issues and feelings that have never been
resolved and are open wounds that haven't been allowed to heal.

Their needs to be less judgment I think and more understanding
and talking, as well as looking at everything from every possible
vantage point.

It's much easier said than done.
This is just what I think.

Another great post.:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:19 PM
Kabuke- let me say and i should hope that people here know that I am speaking in general terms, of course not ALL Black Americans or not all Africans etc think the same , are the same etc. On this board you have to be clear....anyway, when I speak about 'insecurities' and 'inferiority', i am merely speaking about the fact that in the U.S. there are daily reminders of blacks being in the minority in terms of number and power- when you are reminded daily and see images that are not that positive, it will have an effect on your psyche which is difficult for many to get rid of- it may not even be 'conscious'. It's difficult, even playing the victim role is a line that is blurred. A black person from the Continent or Carribean, granted social conditions, economic may not be as good as the poorest American Black in some cases but as far as a psychological being, its a whole other ball game because you are in a country where you ARE the majority and you are told and you see that you can achieve, so you are not dealing so much with issues of feeling like you can not succeed and you really don't have the excuse of "i'm in a country that won't let me"- so when blacks from Carribean or Africa come here, they are for the most part coming with a strong sense of self and that I can acheive (seen as arrogance by some). Now when and if the racism hits them in the US, believe me, they have to deal like the next Black peson and it might be dually difficult to deal with, coming from a place where you don't have to deal with everyday shit. For those of you who have never lived in a majority black country,let me tell you, its a whole different psychological feeling that i can not begin to explain here.

Another grea post!:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Wigglytuff
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:19 PM
HELL yes, you don't see Jewish people using the holocaust as an excuse on a daily basis (and don't even talk about their race) :rolleyes:

do some reading on the lives of jews in europe since WWII and get back to me.

EDIT: i forgot, to add, here is a more detailed question so you get side tracked, let me if jews received reparations and ample access after the WWII, now let me know when blacks have received reparations and ample access, slavery the civil rights movement, and another time you can think of.

Paneru
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:23 PM
HELL yes, you don't see Jewish people using the holocaust as an excuse on a daily basis (and don't even talk about their race) :rolleyes:

I think you're not looking for a discussion
but an argument and words such as this
don't genuinely solve or begin to help people
find answers to why and then look for what the solutions maybe.

As I said previously, I don't think wounds from generations
in certain areas have healed and have not been attended to
causing apathy and inactivity due to frustration and a feeling
of hopelessness that things won't get better.

I think for many blacks in America it's much more
psycological anguish and pain throughout the generations
that have never been allowed to heal.

On a side note,
I'm so glad that MTV and the hip-hop communtiy are really
helping minority youth and all youth to realize that they hold
the key and the power to change, something I don't think we've
begun to realize until now.

I am very hopeful and optimistic that my generation will
come to realize their power and become one of the greatest
generations for change and open communication and understanding
of ourselves, each other, and the world.

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:24 PM
I wasn't aware that 13% of the population was using slavery, Jim Crow, racism (overt and subtle) as an excuse on a daily basis.:rolleyes:

But you are not a snob.:haha:

Oh sure , namecall simply because you don't agree :rolleyes: Meanwhile continue with the excuses :lol:

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:26 PM
think you're not looking for a discussion
but an argument and words such as this
don't genuinely solve or begin to help people
find answers to why and then look for what the solutions maybe.

Have you read the reponses from dumbfuck lischris? :shrug: :tape:

Paneru
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:30 PM
Have you read the reponses from dumbfuck lischris? :shrug: :tape:

I have.

However, you have valid questions that I suspected
and do suspect you want genuine understanding of
and I think if that is the case and you see insults,
simply don't allow that to sidetrack you.

We may not know the answers but will begin
to maybe find something in open communication and discussion.

That's why I simply stated my opinion and said from the beginning
that I choose not to fight and insult. Just hearing points, giving points,
and discussing.

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:30 PM
Have you read the reponses from dumbfuck lischris? :shrug: :tape:
I am the dumbfuck, but you are the one who accuses me of making excuses when I have not, claim not to look down your nose at American born blacks when you do.

The sad part about this who argument is that members of my family fougt in wars to keep American free and have bigoted immigrants come to this country and spread their bigotry when in their contry of origin, they couldn't spew this type of shit freely.

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:31 PM
I have.

However, you have valid questions that I suspected
and do suspect you want genuine understanding of
and I think if that is the case and you see insults,
simply don't allow that to sidetrack you.

We may not know the answers but will begin
to maybe find something in open communication and discussion.

That's why I simply stated my opinion and said from the beginning
that I choose not to fight and insult. Just hearing points, giving points,
and discussing.

They are not insults, just something this person can't accept; the truth.

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:33 PM
They are not insults, just something this person can't accept; the truth.

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face , so get over yourself :tape:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:37 PM
You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face , so get over yourself :tape:

Neither do you, but if you think you do, then go right ahead.

Paneru
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:37 PM
Well, I hope you two can just let
it go and try to converse without
jumping to anger and trying to see
the other person's side.

I've gotta go.
C-ya.

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:39 PM
Well, I hope you two can just let
it go and try to converse without
jumping to anger and trying to see
the other person's side.

I've gotta go.
C-ya.

Let's just say I'd rather rot in :fiery: :tape:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:40 PM
Well, I hope you two can just let
it go and try to converse without
jumping to anger and trying to see
the other person's side.

I've gotta go.
C-ya.
I can talk to someone who is able to discuss the issue without generalizing; I can't talk to someone who has the attitude you'd expect from a white bigot.

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:40 PM
Let's just say I'd rather rot in :fiery: :tape:
Have a nice trip and don't let the door hit you where Satan split you.:lol:

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:42 PM
You attempt at humor fell flat. Try again !!! NEXT :tape:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:44 PM
You attempt at humor fell flat. Try again !!! NEXT :tape:

Assuming you are a woman, not as flat as you ass and chest.

Infiniti2001
Oct 14th, 2004, 06:52 PM
Assuming you are a woman, not as flat as you ass and chest.


:o I pity you :rolleyes: Now if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do with my free time. :tape:

lizchris
Oct 14th, 2004, 07:00 PM
:o I pity you :rolleyes: Now if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do with my free time. :tape:

If you did, you would not be on this board in the first place.:rolleyes:

Wigglytuff
Oct 14th, 2004, 07:33 PM
:o I pity you :rolleyes: Now if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do with my free time. :tape:

for someoen who claims they have a want for discussion that is civil you have managed to aviod answer or addressing any points mentioned.

included but not limited to:
-the exodus of the black middle and upper class
-the fact that as kiwi mentioned people of races both make and dont make it.

and lots of other points.


i find that people often claim they want something, like a discussion for example and then avoid one all the same. :scratch: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

harloo
Oct 14th, 2004, 07:56 PM
jiggly and kiwifan great posts!!!;)

Stamp Paid
Oct 14th, 2004, 07:57 PM
for someoen who claims they have a want for discussion that is civil you have managed to aviod answer or addressing any points mentioned.

included but not limited to:
-the exodus of the black middle and upper class
-the fact that as kiwi mentioned people of races both make and dont make it.

and lots of other points.


i find that people often claim they want something, like a discussion for example and then avoid one all the same. :scratch: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

Methinks Infiniti2001 is just trolling, thats why I just stopped debating.

Notice how he/she/it (like Liz says :D ) did not even DARE to quote or respond to my original post (http://wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=4324749&postcount=9). Hehe.

Wigglytuff
Oct 14th, 2004, 08:26 PM
Methinks Infiniti2001 is just trolling, thats why I just stopped debating.

Notice how he/she/it (like Liz says :D ) did not even DARE to quote or respond to my original post (http://wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=4324749&postcount=9). Hehe.

you know how they have an "ignore" and a "buddy" list they should and could have a "troll list" were when you put that person on the troll list a little green man appears next to thier name everything they post that way, you know the trolls and you dont have to bother!

that would be always, it would make troll fest 2005 easier to bear when it gets started as well! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Infiniti2001
Oct 15th, 2004, 06:00 AM
I've been on this board from 2001 yet I'm labelled a troll :lol: Anyway, I will maintain it's all about priorities, so continue making excuses for all those who don't wish to help themselves :tape:

Wigglytuff
Oct 15th, 2004, 06:38 AM
I've been on this board from 2001 yet I'm labelled a troll :lol: Anyway, I will maintain it's all about priorities, so continue making excuses for all those who don't wish to help themselves :tape:

instead or writing a long reply, i figure why reinvent the wheel. yours and bills statements have already been debunked by execellent reseach and lasting studies.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060974990/qid=1097818357/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-9475381-7661511?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0060974990.01._PE_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Savage Inequalities: Children in America's Schools
by Jonathan Kozol

Kozol believes that children from poor families are cheated out of a future by grossly underequipped, understaffed and underfunded schools in U.S. inner cities and less affluent suburbs. The schools he visited between 1988 and 1990--in burnt-out Camden, N.J., Washington, D.C., New York's South Bronx, Chicago's South Side, San Antonio, Tex., and East St. Louis, Mo., awash in toxic fumes--were "95 to 99 percent nonwhite." Kozol ( Death at an Early Age ) found that racial segregation has intensified since 1954. Even in the suburbs, he charges, the slotting of minority children into lower "tracks" sets up a differential, two-tier system that diminishes poor children's horizons and aspirations. He lets the pupils and teachers speak for themselves, uncovering "little islands of . . . energy and hope." This important, eye-opening report is a ringing indictment of the shameful neglect that has fostered a ghetto school system in America.


and thanks to no child left behind, these savage inequalities will only get worse and it will be even more difficult students to learn.

Wendy Williams
Oct 15th, 2004, 10:57 AM
I say all this to say. As black people the stack is decked against us BUT that doesn't mean you just give up and accept your situation. Get your hustle on! Get out there and learn and make the most of your opportunities that will hopefully lead to bigger things. For those that read my books you know I was a lousy student but I had "futuristic vision" and that's what got me to where I am today. I know it's hard when you watch the news (shout out to Brenda Blackmon) and see all this Negroidian mess but you can't let it stop you! Go to college, meet new pople, do internships, plan your life. It's not a guarantee for success but it's a lot better than hanging out on the street.

*JR*
Oct 15th, 2004, 12:12 PM
Let this white (who grew up in a multicultural neighborhood) express sadness that a thread which found a conservative black like Kiwifan and left-leaning ones like lizchris & Jiggly in basic agreement was largely trashed by Infiniti's insults. :(

lizchris
Oct 15th, 2004, 02:12 PM
Let this white (who grew up in a multicultural neighborhood) express sadness that a thread which found a conservative black like Kiwifan and left-leaning ones like lizchris & Jiggly in basic agreement was largely trashed by Infiniti's insults. :(

I am not left leaning; I am an independent, but I don't like when people who have the priviledge of being an American citizen puts down the people who were born here.:(

kiwifan
Oct 15th, 2004, 07:57 PM
http://www.wtaworld.com/ubb/icons/icon11.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger
Let this white (who grew up in a multicultural neighborhood) express sadness that a thread which found a conservative black like Kiwifan and left-leaning ones like lizchris & Jiggly in basic agreement was largely trashed by Infiniti's insults. :(



I am not left leaning; I am an independent, but I don't like when people who have the priviledge of being an American citizen puts down the people who were born here.:(

I'm not all that conservative :angel: (foriegn policy only), I'm a liberal hawk. :devil:

That said JR's comment has validity. (note no insults...yet)

Wigglytuff
Oct 15th, 2004, 08:03 PM
Let this white (who grew up in a multicultural neighborhood) express sadness that a thread which found a conservative black like Kiwifan and left-leaning ones like lizchris & Jiggly in basic agreement was largely trashed by Infiniti's insults. :(

jigglypuff= left leaning, (to say the least :lol: :tape: :tape: :tape: )

*JR*
Oct 15th, 2004, 08:12 PM
Sorry about the "labels" (I personally don't fit "left-right" either). I do recall deep disagreement beteen lizchris and Kiwi in previous "Cosby threads". So its progress when ppl move past whether Coz is a good role model himself and address the underlying issues his speeches bring attention to. :yeah:

alfajeffster
Oct 15th, 2004, 08:23 PM
A boy is born in hard time Mississippi
Surrounded by four walls that ain't so pretty
His parents give him love and affection
To keep him strong moving in the right direction
Living just enough, just enough for the city...ee ha!
His father works some days for fourteen hours
And you can bet he barely makes a dollar
His mother goes to scrub the floors for many
And you'd best believe she hardly gets a penny
Living just enough, just enough for the city... yeah!
His sister's black but she is sho'nuff pretty
Her skirt is short but Lord her legs are sturdy
To walk to school she's got to get up early
Her clothes are old but never are they dirty
Living just enough, just enough for the city...um hum
Her brother's smart he's got more sense than many
His patience's long but soon he won't have any
To find a job is like a haystack needle
Cause where he lives they don't use colored people
Living just enough, just enough for the city...
Living just enough...
For the city... ooh, ooh
(Repeat several times)
His hair is long, his feet are hard and gritty
He spends his life walking the streets of New York City
He's almost dead from breathing in air pollution
He tried to vote but to him there's no solution
Living just enough, just enough for the city...
yeah, yeah, yeah!
I hope you hear inside my voice of sorrow
And that it motivates you to make a better tomorrow
This place is cruel no where could be much colder
If we don't change the world will soon be over
Living just enough, stop giving just enough for the city

Wigglytuff
Oct 16th, 2004, 03:28 AM
Sorry about the "labels" (I personally don't fit "left-right" either). I do recall deep disagreement beteen lizchris and Kiwi in previous "Cosby threads". So its progress when ppl move past whether Coz is a good role model himself and address the underlying issues his speeches bring attention to. :yeah:
:yeah: