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*JR*
Oct 9th, 2004, 12:46 AM
(Haters allowed). :p Make it a bagel and a breadstick after 2 sets, Big John! :D

Martian Jeza
Oct 9th, 2004, 12:57 AM
Come on John kicks the liar's ass !!!

Infiniti2001
Oct 9th, 2004, 01:23 AM
John rocks! Honestly I haven't seen or heard a parrot like duhbya in my whole life :o The lady asked him how he will repair relations with other countries and of course his response was way off :rolleyes:

Freewoman33
Oct 9th, 2004, 01:41 AM
Kerry is kicking Bush's ass.

Infiniti2001
Oct 9th, 2004, 01:50 AM
what a fucking cowboy UGH. :armed:

catkey94
Oct 9th, 2004, 01:53 AM
Go Kerry!!! Don't take any Bushit!

jbone_0307
Oct 9th, 2004, 01:54 AM
OMG the faces that he is making are just candid. And his public outburst when he talks about allies just made him look like a fool. Also his name calling about liberals, OMG how ignorant and childish, even though Kerry is, to refer to him as that. Now Bush is blaming the bad economy on Clinton, because it was soo high. So far, Kerry is doing OK, but I hope he doesn't fall into what Bush is doing, attacking the opponent, but answering the freakin question.

BK4ever
Oct 9th, 2004, 02:04 AM
Bush is so fucking dumb its unbelievable...how many pauses can one person take...he could do a better job of memorizing his material :haha:

Infiniti2001
Oct 9th, 2004, 02:07 AM
Bush is so fucking dumb its unbelievable...how many pauses can one person take...he could do a better job of memorizing his material :haha:

:lol: I am so cracking up -- the dude never left the country before he became president, yet he claims he knows the world :lol:

jbone_0307
Oct 9th, 2004, 02:10 AM
President Bush, this isn't a time for humor, when you have no answers to the questions.

BK4ever
Oct 9th, 2004, 02:22 AM
DUMBO IS SO STUPID ITS ALMOST FUNNY...

The saddest thing about Bush is that so-called intelligent Americans plan on voting for him. A mad who can harly put a sentence together and is clearly spewing material that he memorized...no one we are the laughing stock of the world :sad:

jbone_0307
Oct 9th, 2004, 02:28 AM
He almost forgot what act he signed. :rolleyes:

jbone_0307
Oct 9th, 2004, 02:29 AM
OMG BUSH just answer the question Geez!

jbone_0307
Oct 9th, 2004, 02:30 AM
I bet the woman who asked the question thinks he is just dumb. Does George Bush actaully think that he has made mistakes and has lied.

AjdeNate!
Oct 9th, 2004, 02:49 AM
Another W. Hope JK has enough gas in the tank for 2 more matches. :p

CC
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:05 AM
Bush is a bully. He's going to tell us what to do with our bodies and he's going to pick justices that favor his views so he can take away our rights.

BK4ever
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:11 AM
Hello...does this man know how to answer a frickin question...she asked him about mistakes...yet he went off on a tangent about Iraq...get over yourself you damn racist. lying mongrel...please someone explain to me how any fairly intelligent person could have possibly walked in a voting booth and checked his name :rolleyes:

damn i forgot...they didnt real vote for dumbo, they voted for the republican machine :D poor georgie is the president and he doesnt even have a say in the decisions :haha:

Paneru
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:19 AM
Bush is a bully. He's going to tell us what to do with our bodies and he's going to pick justices that favor his views so he can take away our rights.

Wasn't he! :eek:

He acted like the petulant child many know him to be
and he put it on display for all to see tonight!

NO DOUBT, NONE!

Bush dodged the questions, never declared what his positions were
in relations to the questions posed to him, and he was defensive the whole
debate and very rude to the moderator Charlie Gibson who was there for a reason and Bush just dissed him totally.

Kerry was in total command from the beginning, gave answers and positions on the questions posed, and IMO seemed to be getting stronger in communicating ot the people and correcting the way Bush and his people
were trying to distort his words.

IMO, I've never seen Kerry more strong than in these past couple of weeks and he's just getting stronger and stronger.

Kerry won this debate by a landslide!

Paneru
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:23 AM
Hello...does this man know how to answer a frickin question...she asked him about mistakes...yet he went off on a tangent about Iraq...get over yourself you damn racist. lying mongrel...please someone explain to me how any fairly intelligent person could have possibly walked in a voting booth and checked his name :rolleyes:

damn i forgot...they didnt real vote for dumbo, they voted for the republican machine :D poor georgie is the president and he doesnt even have a say in the decisions :haha:

My father and I were saying the exact same thing!

She asked him point blank about what he felt were mistakes.
He never owned up to them but, proceeded to defend his actions
and say history may look back on what the mistakes were and yet
continued to answer despite admitting to nothing.

If he felt he made no mistakes, simply say that you didn't feel you
made mistakes not what others may say. And for that matter, if
you're bringing that up it would lead me to believe that you think
they were mistakes or could've been but won't own up to save
supposed face! :rolleyes:

*JR*
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:33 AM
Bush can't even explain points he wants to make. When Kerry said that malpractice is only 1% of medical costs, Bush knew that "defensive medicine" (redundant tests, etc.) means the total amount related to lawyers is really a few percent. But he didn't explain what he was talking about.

Monique
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:36 AM
I bet the woman who asked the question thinks he is just dumb. Does George Bush actaully think that he has made mistakes and has lied.that could be a potentially very damaging question, that George W. handled particularly and surprisingly well given the circumstances... he did open himself for sniping attacks from the Senator when he blankly stated that the Iraq blunder was not a mistake, but John Kerry did not cue in correctly with a strong rebuttal when given a chance... I would love for the Senator to call George W. on his presumption, and recall the more than 1020 costly mistakes and rising that would hit so deep within the Middle America households, but Kerry missed that out...

all in all, a much stronger performance by the President (compared to his first debate last Thursday), who sometimes managed to keep John Kerry on the defense about his legislative voting record, thus denying Kerry of concentrating much of the debate over the horrible employment numbers just released to the Press... Kerry does look more incisive and knowledgeable, but Bush knows and clearly plays to his political base while defending conservative issues like pro-life and managing to say the name of God a couple of times...

The Republicans partisans are claiming victory as are the Democrats, which if seemingly logical, is a clear departure of the desperation that took over the Republicans after George W.'s atrotious performance in last week's debate... for now, I think the safest bet is to call it a tie...;)

Monique
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:36 AM
oh, and welcome back, Roger! :kiss:

JustineTime
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:47 AM
The childish, ignorant, petulant, bible-thumping, Hitlerian, fascist George Bush strikes again:

:tears:

Polls Open in Historic Afghan Election

49 minutes ago
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/my/addtomyyahoo3.gif (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/addtomy/*http://add.my.yahoo.com/content?id=6080&.src=yn&.done=http%3a//news.yahoo.com/news%3ftmpl=story%26u=/ap/20041009/ap_on_re_as/afghan_election%26cid=516%26ncid=716) World - AP Asia (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/addtomy/*http://add.my.yahoo.com/content?id=6080&.src=yn&.done=http%3a//news.yahoo.com/news%3ftmpl=story%26u=/ap/20041009/ap_on_re_as/afghan_election%26cid=516%26ncid=716)


By PAUL HAVEN, Associated Press Writer

KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghanistan (news (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22Afghanistan%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw) - web sites (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=web-storylinks&p=Afghanistan))'s first-ever direct presidential election began Saturday, with people across this ethnically diverse land casting the first ballots in an improbable experiment with democracy.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041008/thumb.qut10210081525.afghan_election_qut102.jpg (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041008/481/qut10210081525)
AP Photo (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041008/481/qut10210081525)
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041009/t/r3010135031.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:%20rs()
Reuters (http://javascript<b></b>:%20rs() http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/auctions/cam.gifSlideshow: Afghanistan (http://javascript<b></b>:%20rs()
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap_av/20041007/vidsthumb.1007afghan_sec.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:rs()Security Heightened for Afghan Election (http://javascript<b></b>:rs()
(AP Video)

After 25 years of near constant war — and under a Taliban threat of ruinous violence — voters descended on bombed-out schools, blue-domed mosques, and bullet-pocked hospitals to choose their leader for the first time in their history.



Interim leader Hamid Karzai is widely expected to win the vote against 15 rivals, among them warlords, royalists and even an Islamic poet. But the size of the field could deny Karzai the outright majority needed to avert a run-off.



A 19-year-old Afghan refugee in Pakistan became the election's first voter early Saturday, casting a ballot in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad.



"I cannot explain my feelings, just how happy I am," said Moqadasa Sidiqi, a science student whose family escaped Kabul in 1992 during the Afghan civil war. "I would never have thought I would be able to vote in this election."



Some 750,000 Afghan refugees registered to vote in Pakistan, and another 400,000-600,000 were eligible in Iran. Initial results were not expected until late Sunday or early Monday, but anything approaching a full count could take as much as two weeks.



While the Taliban threat of an overwhelming attack had not materialized by early Saturday, there were plenty of signs the rebel group was trying. On Friday, a bomb-sniffing dog in southern Kandahar discovered a fuel-truck rigged with anti-tank mines and laden with 10,000 gallons of gasoline.



Election officials arrested three Pakistanis and said they planned to detonate the truck in the center of the city on polling day.



"This would have caused hundreds of deaths ... and the electoral process would have been derailed in the area," said Col. Ishaq Paiman, the Defense Ministry deputy spokesman.



A flurry of rockets landed in several cities around the country on Thursday and Friday, including one that hit a parking lot near the U.S. Embassy, and another that injured a young girl and an old man in the eastern city of Jalalabad. Still, none threatened to derail the vote, and most Afghans brushed them off.



"In 25 years a lot of rockets have landed. If another one lands because of the election, it's no problem," said Noor Uddin, a 49-year-old Kabul businessman, on Friday. "(Saturday) is a happy and historic day. That's what is important."



A day ahead of the vote, Islamic clerics urged Friday worshippers to embrace democracy, while election workers scurried to ready voting booths.



At the Blue Mosque, the capital's largest house of prayer, Mullah Obeid-ul Rahman told some 400 faithful that Islam and democracy should go hand and hand.



"Saturday you should go and vote. Put your card in the box and say 'God be praised!'" he said. "Give your vote to that person who is a good Muslim and can heal Afghanistan's injured soul."



Interior Minister Ali Ahmad Jalali said more than 100,000 Afghan soldiers and police, regional militias allied to the government, U.S. troops and international peacekeepers were deployed to protect the vote.



Expectations for the election have been set intentionally low.



Afghans have no experience with democracy, and most say they will vote based on the recommendations of tribal elders. The country of 25 million people is largely illiterate, and voters will have to rely on candidates' photographs and electoral symbols to figure out which box to check.







Both the European Union (news (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22European%20Union%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw) - web sites (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=web-storylinks&p=European%20Union)) and the Organization for Security and Cooperation (news (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22Organization%20for%20Security%20and%20Coopera tion%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw) - web sites (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=web-storylinks&p=Organization%20for%20Security%20and%20Cooperatio n)) in Europe have sent observer missions, but neither will pass judgment on the fairness of the process, saying it would not be appropriate to try to hold Afghanistan to international standards. A small U.S. observer team also was monitoring the vote.

Afghanistan has lived under many forms of government in the past 30 years — from Pashtun monarchy to Soviet-styled communism, from rule by warlords to repressive Taliban theocracy. Now there are signs that democracy is getting a chance.

Rahman, the Kabul cleric, did not say which presidential hopeful he would pick, but he made clear that the only female candidate, former U.N. worker Massooda Jalal, was not his choice.

"In Islam, it is forbidden for a woman to become president," he told the crowd.

At least one of his listeners disagreed. "I am voting for Massooda Jalal," said Fazel Rahman, 35. "I have come here to pray. I don't care what the mullah says about politics."

LindsayRulez
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:48 AM
please win, john kerry, we can't take any more of this bull shit

*JR*
Oct 9th, 2004, 03:55 AM
Thanks, Monique. :) And JiT, here's the 411 on the Afghan election: "our man Karzai" will probably win, but the warlords will continue to run most of the country, the way Al Capone and the other crime bosses once ran Chicago. (Even the reconstituted Taliban have their area now).

JustineTime
Oct 9th, 2004, 04:01 AM
Thanks, Monique. :) And JiT, here's the 411 on the Afghan election: "our man Karzai" will probably win, but the warlords will continue to run most of the country, the way Al Capone and the other crime bosses once ran Chicago. (Even the reconstituted Taliban have their area now).
:scratch:

So do the "crime bosses" still run Chicago?

Or is that just another typical "the glass is half-empty 'cause the liberals weren't in charge when it happened" type of spin? :confused:

Paneru
Oct 9th, 2004, 04:01 AM
please win, john kerry, we can't take any more of this bull shit

I agree.

I think for Kerry this election is
going to come down to voter turnoout.

How many registered will actually get out
and vote on that day.

I personally think that Election day should be made a national
holiday so everyone has the opportunity to get out and vote.
It would be more convenient and better if people didn't have
to worry about work and trying to get to the polls and what not
on that day.

I've heard that in some other countries it is actually a national
holiday or something along those lines but, I forget which countries.

I'll have to look it up.

BK4ever
Oct 9th, 2004, 04:02 AM
If I have to live through another four years of Republican renegades in power I can't be responsible for what I do :sad:

I'm working on the Kerry and DNC initiatives to get out the vote and its causing me great anxiety...mostly from the fear of the repuglicans stealing another election and all the long hours our team has put in trying to get the ads on the air on time. I'm thoroughly exhausted and I expect nothing but a WIN for the democrats on election day or I will be devastated!

Paneru
Oct 9th, 2004, 04:08 AM
If I have to live through another four years of Republican renegades in power I can't be responsible for what I do :sad:

I'm working on the Kerry and DNC initiatives to get out the vote and its causing me great anxiety...mostly from the fear of the repuglicans stealing another election and all the long hours our team has put in trying to get the ads on the air on time. I'm thoroughly exhausted and I expect nothing but a WIN for the democrats on election day or I will be devastated!

Your concern is the same concern my dad has.
Will they steal another election?

JustineTime
Oct 9th, 2004, 04:18 AM
If I have to live through another four years of Republican renegades in power I can't be responsible for what I do :sad:

I'm working on the Kerry and DNC initiatives to get out the vote and its causing me great anxiety...mostly from the fear of the repuglicans stealing another election and all the long hours our team has put in trying to get the ads on the air on time. I'm thoroughly exhausted and I expect nothing but a WIN for the democrats on election day or I will be devastated!
Stealing another election? :confused:

Might wanna read up on your recent history there, Kool-Aid drinker! ;) :drink: :)

Bush won recount after recount. The disputed ballots were in Democrat-controlled precincts. Of course, Dems didn't want to recount the whole state, mind you, just the counties where they thought they could get the desired outcome! ;) It was the Democrats, not the Republicans, who took the matter to court, trying, I suppose, to obtain by judicial fiat what they couldn't obtain through the electoral process like, I don't know, gay marriage, which the People(remember them????) have repeatedly voted overwhelmingly(even in liberal California) to oppose and which Democratically-arrived-at decisions activist judges have unconstitutionally legislated against from the bench!

Nice attempt at revisionist history, though! You're a VERY good liberal! :yeah:

:)

Did I mention the absentee military ballots your fellow champions of democracy attempted to get discounted, knowing they would be overwhelmingly Republican? No, of course not! You naturally forgot those irrelevant voters in your passionate concern for the 1,000,000 fictional African-Americans who were viciously disenfranchised by the evil Republicans in 2000, right? :tape:

BK4ever
Oct 9th, 2004, 04:46 AM
Stealing another election? :confused:

Might wanna read up on your recent history there, Kool-Aid drinker! ;) :drink: :)

Bush won recount after recount. The disputed ballots were in Democrat-controlled precincts. Of course, Dems didn't want to recount the whole state, mind you, just the counties where they thought they could get the desired outcome! ;) It was the Democrats, not the Republicans, who took the matter to court, trying, I suppose, to obtain by judicial fiat what they couldn't obtain through the electoral process like, I don't know, gay marriage, which the People(remember them????) have repeatedly voted overwhelmingly(even in liberal California) to oppose and which Democratically-arrived-at decisions activist judges have unconstitutionally legislated against from the bench!

Nice attempt at revisionist history, though! You're a VERY good liberal! :yeah:

:)

Did I mention the absentee military ballots your fellow champions of democracy attempted to get discounted, knowing they would be overwhelmingly Republican? No, of course not! You naturally forgot those irrelevant voters in your passionate concern for the 1,000,000 fictional African-Americans who were viciously disenfranchised by the evil Republicans in 2000, right? :tape:
you are a dedicated republican...the wool over your eyes is very thick...I feel sorry for people like you.

JustineTime
Oct 9th, 2004, 05:15 AM
you are a dedicated republican...the wool over your eyes is very thick...I feel sorry for people like you.
Thanks for the sympathy...and the small "r"! :yeah: :)

Thankfully, the wool over my eyes has not prevented me from following the Good Shepherd! Or from seeing the Truth.

Your sorrow is misdirected, I'm afraid! :tears: I know a freedom neither ballot nor government can provide. Do you?

JustineTime
Oct 9th, 2004, 05:49 AM
you are a dedicated republican...the wool over your eyes is very thick...I feel sorry for people like you.
People like me? :confused:

You mean people who actually deal with facts?

Or people who would die of thirst rather than :drink: mindless liberal Kool-Aid? :confused:

Hagar
Oct 9th, 2004, 06:31 PM
I agree.

I think for Kerry this election is
going to come down to voter turnoout.

How many registered will actually get out
and vote on that day.

I personally think that Election day should be made a national
holiday so everyone has the opportunity to get out and vote.
It would be more convenient and better if people didn't have
to worry about work and trying to get to the polls and what not
on that day.

I've heard that in some other countries it is actually a national
holiday or something along those lines but, I forget which countries.

I'll have to look it up.
In Belgium elections are always held on a Sunday but then voting is obligatory here.

Shane54
Oct 10th, 2004, 05:42 AM
If Bush "is such an idiot" how come the "Little Pussy" isn't winning hands down!

jbone_0307
Oct 10th, 2004, 12:48 PM
Because people are more concerned about their political party. What ever happening to be independent and selecting a candidate on how he will help you in the future. People are just full of ignorant "liberals" or "conservatives", that they are blinded by their candidates mistrust(Bush) and just plain ignorance. The Bush camp actually thought he did well, with all of his tantrums and immature reactions, and disrespecting the moderator. Kerry needs to stop saying "I have a plan", and instead of say go to johnkerry.com, explain it in lamen terms that appeal to most americans.

Sam L
Oct 10th, 2004, 01:15 PM
If I have to live through another four years of Republican renegades in power I can't be responsible for what I do :sad:

I'm working on the Kerry and DNC initiatives to get out the vote and its causing me great anxiety...mostly from the fear of the repuglicans stealing another election and all the long hours our team has put in trying to get the ads on the air on time. I'm thoroughly exhausted and I expect nothing but a WIN for the democrats on election day or I will be devastated!
You're doing great work!!

kabuki
Oct 10th, 2004, 01:22 PM
Thanks for the sympathy...and the small "r"! :yeah: :)

Thankfully, the wool over my eyes has not prevented me from following the Good Shepherd! Or from seeing the Truth.

Your sorrow is misdirected, I'm afraid! :tears: I know a freedom neither ballot nor government can provide. Do you?

For someone following the Good Shepard, you sure spout a lot of hate.

kabuki
Oct 10th, 2004, 01:23 PM
If Bush "is such an idiot" how come the "Little Pussy" isn't winning hands down!

Because of morons like you.

Paneru
Oct 10th, 2004, 02:20 PM
In Belgium elections are always held on a Sunday but then voting is obligatory here.

That's a good thing.

I don't think one should be forced
to vote but, I think all she have the
opportunity without the worry of missing
work and all those types of things.

Paneru
Oct 10th, 2004, 02:21 PM
Because of morons like you.

Pretty much! :cool:

*JR*
Oct 10th, 2004, 02:29 PM
Did I mention the absentee military ballots your fellow champions of democracy attempted to get discounted, knowing they would be overwhelmingly Republican? No, of course not! You naturally forgot those irrelevant voters in your passionate concern for the 1,000,000 fictional African-Americans who were viciously disenfranchised by the evil Republicans in 2000, right? :tape:I wonder who'll carry those military ballots this time! :p BTW, lets say "only" 10,000 blacks were actually disenfranchised in FL in 2000. They still would have given Gore a lead of several thousand (breaking about 9-1 in his favor).

JustineTime
Oct 10th, 2004, 03:19 PM
For someone following the Good Shepard, you sure spout a lot of hate.
Where's the "hate", man? :confused: :shrug:

Quotes, please! :)

JustineTime
Oct 10th, 2004, 03:22 PM
I wonder who'll carry those military ballots this time! :p BTW, lets say "only" 10,000 blacks were actually disenfranchised in FL in 2000. They still would have given Gore a lead of several thousand (breaking about 9-1 in his favor).
Right! :yeah:

'Cause it was only black democrats who were "disenfranchised", not old white republicans. :rolleyes: Oy vey!

They weren't disenfranchised! They were too incompetent to punch a chad. This is pure lefty tripe, Roger! You guys and Al Gore need to get over it! :lol: :tape:

:rolleyes:

Bacardi
Oct 10th, 2004, 03:23 PM
I guess Bush is busy rounding up his way to block minorities from voting. He's also trying to lose half those military ballots, as every one I've talked to that's come home either for a short time or for good thing our President, their Commander in Cheif has no fucking idea what he's doing. So I don't think he'll even win the military's votes this time. I hope that good brother Jeb, doesn't help big W cheat again!

KERRY :worship:

Bacardi
Oct 10th, 2004, 03:28 PM
Right! :yeah:

'Cause it was only black democrats who were "disenfranchised", not old white republicans. :rolleyes: Oy vey!

They weren't disenfranchised! They were too incompetent to punch a chad. This is pure lefty tripe, Roger! You guys and Al Gore need to get over it! :lol: :tape:

:rolleyes:

Have you not watched ANY NEWS, there were 100s if not 1000s of minorites, blacks/cubians, etc that were living in FL that had their voting rights taken. Because their names remotely matched, and not even completely matched up with social security numbers or anything someone who was a criminal. Half they matched them up with, were still in PRISON. It's competely insane to defend an administration that allows it's state to do this, and like it or not FL tried hard for W, and won that for him by cheating.

Please, if you don't want to be so blind, go out and find a newsprogram called: Fixed in Florida (2004) from the BBC DVD "Bush Family Fortunes" but good luck trying to find it, our government won't even allow it unless you know how to go about finding it. Try checking here thou, since you are a Bush Supporter and finding anything aside from your head up your ass is a difficult thing to do. :wavey: www.GregPalast.com www.Disinfo.com

Bacardi
Oct 10th, 2004, 03:36 PM
What really happened in Florida?



Five months before the election, Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris ordered the removal of 57,700 names from Florida’s voter rolls on grounds that they were felons. Voter rolls contain the names of all eligible, registered voters. If you’re not on the list, you don’t get to vote.



If you commit a felony in Florida, you lose your right to vote there, and you‘re “scrubbed” from the rolls. You become a non-citizen, like in the old Soviet Union. This is not the case in most other states; it’s an uncivilized vestige of the Deep South.



My office carefully went through the scrub list and discovered that at minimum, 90.2 percent of the people were completely innocent of any crime – except for being African American. We didn’t have to guess about that, because next to each voter’s name was their race.



When I questioned Harris’ office about the high percentage of African Americans on the scrub list, they responded, “Well, you know how many black people commit crimes.”



But these people weren’t felons, so why were they scrubbed?



The Florida Republicans wanted to block African Americans, who largely vote as Democrats, from voting. In 1999 they fired the company they were paying $5,700 to compile their felony “scrub” lists and replaced them with Database Technologies [DBT], who they paid $2.3 million to do the same job. [DBT is the Florida division of Choicepoint, a massive database company that does extensive work for the FBI.]



There are a lot of Joe Smiths in the Florida phonebook. DBT was hired to verify which Joe Smith was a felon and which was not. They were supposed to use their extensive databases to check credit cards, bank information, addresses and phone numbers, in addition to names, ages, and social security numbers. But they didn’t. They didn’t use one of their 1,200 databases to verify personal information, nor did they make a single phone call to verify the identity of scrubbed names.



So where did DBT get their data?



From the Internet. They went to 11 other states’ Internet sites and took names off dirt-cheap. They scrubbed Florida voters whose names were similar to out-of-state felons. An Illinois felon named John Michaels could knock off Florida voter John, Johnny, Jonathan or Jon R. Michaels, or even J.R. Michaelson. DBT matched for race and gender, but names only had to be similar to a certain degree. Names could be reversed, and suffixes (Jr., Sr.) were ignored, but aliases were included. So the felon John “Buddy” Michaels could knock non-felon Michael Johns or Bud Johnson Jr. off the voter rolls. This happened again and again.



Although DBT didn’t get names, birthdays or social security numbers right, they were very careful to match for race. A black felon named Mr. Green would only knock off a black Mr. Green, but not a single white Mr. Green. That’s how DBT earned its $2.3 million.



Why didn’t DBT use their own databases?



They didn’t, because the state told them not to. Choicepoint vice-president James Lee was grilled by a Congressional committee, headed by Cynthia McKinney, and he admitted everything, but said DBT was following state directives. Florida state officials told DBT to knock off voters by incorrectly matching them with felons.



Congresswoman McKinney led this commission to her own peril. Choicepoint is in her Atlanta district. She was destroyed in the last election by fabricated quotes and a vicious propaganda campaign.



Is this the only way votes were stolen?



No. There were 8,000 Floridians who had committed misdemeanors, but were counted as felons. Their votes were scrubbed. Katherine Harris’ office illegally scrubbed people who’d served time in other states, then moved to Florida, and Jeb Bush’s office illegally barred these people from registering to vote at all.



The biggest wholesale theft occurred inside the voting booths in black rural counties. In Gadsden County, one of the blackest in the state, thousands of votes were simply thrown away. Gadsden used paper ballots which are read by an optical reader. Ballots with a single extra mark were considered “spoiled“ and not counted. The buttons used to fill out the ballots were set up – with approval from Bush and Harris – to make votes appear unclear to the machine. One in eight ballots in Gadsden was voided by the state.



The same ballots were used in Tallahassee County, which is mostly white. There only one in 100 votes was “spoiled.” What made the difference? In Tallahassee, ballots were read on the premises, and if they were marked incorrectly, voters were sent to revote until they got it right. In the black counties, the votes were trucked off immediately. There were no machines on site. Voters weren’t told that their votes were spoiled, and they certainly weren’t permitted to re-vote.



When Ted Koppel investigated voter theft in Florida, he concluded that blacks lost votes because they weren’t well educated, and made mistakes that whites hadn‘t. He didn’t even bother to ask how the machines were set up. This is the kind of reporting we get in America. In Britain, this story ran 3 weeks after the election, when Gore was still in race. It was in the papers and on TV. In the US, it was seven months before the Washington Post ran it, and then it was only a partial version. After the election, Gadsden County replaced its voting commissioner. In 2002 they only lost one in 500 votes. So you can say blacks in Gadsden got smarter in one way – they elected a black elections chief.



What happened to Choicepoint?



Bush is handing them the big contracts in the War on Terror; immigration reviews, DNA cataloging, airport profiling, and their voting systems are being rolled out across the country.



It wasn’t reported in mainstream press, but the NAACP sued Harris and the gang for the black purge, and won. The state threw up its hands immediately and said, ‘You got us! We’ll put these people back as soon as we can.’ We’re still waiting.

JustineTime
Oct 10th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Have you not watched ANY NEWS, there were 100s if not 1000s of minorites, blacks/cubians, etc that were living in FL that had their voting rights taken. Because their names remotely matched, and not even completely matched up with social security numbers or anything someone who was a criminal. Half they matched them up with, were still in PRISON. It's competely insane to defend an administration that allows it's state to do this, and like it or not FL tried hard for W, and won that for him by cheating.

Please, if you don't want to be so blind, go out and find a newsprogram called: Fixed in Florida (2004) from the BBC DVD "Bush Family Fortunes" but good luck trying to find it, our government won't even allow it unless you know how to go about finding it. Try checking here thou, since you are a Bush Supporter and finding anything aside from your head up your ass is a difficult thing to do. :wavey: www.GregPalast.com (http://www.gregpalast.com/) www.Disinfo.com (http://www.Disinfo.com)

"The election in Florida was too close to call."

Truth - George Bush received more votes than Al Gore and never trailed by a single vote even after a variety of recounts. Democrats want you to think the outcome of the election was ambiguous - and it wasn't. Florida counted the votes as it normally would and Bush won. Counties then recounted the votes using their normal tabulation methods and Bush was verified as the winner.

Gore wanted to change tabulation methods in Democrat counties and have yet another recount in order to find more votes and overcome George Bush's victory.



"Florida had discarded votes"
Ballots vs. votes

Truth - Democrats intentionally combined these terms in order to confuse you. Discarded ballots occur in every election, in every city, in every state, due to voter error or confusion. Democrats began calling them "discarded votes" in order to suggest that citizens had their votes thrown out. Yet not only were votes counted twice in Florida, there were additional recounts in Democrat counties (all in an effort to find more votes for Gore.)



"George Bush was selected - not elected!"

Truth - After Al Gore lost the election, he tried to manipulate the tabulation process in Democrat counties in order to find more votes. His efforts lead to 35 days of legal wrangling that ultimately made its way to the Supreme Court of United States. The court overturned the Florida Supreme Court who had taken a managerial role in the election. The Florida Court altered election laws post Election Day by implementing new and vague manual recounting procedures, all in an effort to find more votes for Gore.

This phrase ("selected, not elected") is designed to convince you that Bush's "buddies on the US Supreme Court" saw to it he was elected. It ignores the fact that Bush received more votes than Gore. It ignores the fact that it was Gore who turned Florida's election process up-side-down. It also implies that if Gore would have been able to take over the election to the extent he wanted, he surely would have found enough new votes to win, something that is not certain by any means.




"Most investigations show Al Gore won Florida!"

Truth - There is not a single investigation that concludes Al Gore received more votes than President Bush in Florida. In fact, the ultimate investigation, that being the tabulations by Florida's counties, proved otherwise. After counting the votes a variety of times using normal tabulation processes, George Bush had more.

Democrats anxiously awaited a study conducted by the University of Chicago (funded by newspapers) that reviewed all ambiguous ballots in Florida (not just the one's in Democrat counties). The study categorizes the number of dimples, hanging chads, types of voting machines, etc. The study does not determine "winners" or "losers". But Democrats want you to believe that all overvotes and undervotes were supposed to be Gore votes.

I have created a section dedicated to the NORC Study - Click Here (http://www.florida2000election.com/sections/11.htm).



"More people intended to vote for Gore than did for Bush!"

Truth - Democrats began pounding this message as soon as they found out they lost, before ballots were even reviewed once by the human eye. Democrats somehow know in their hearts that more people voted for Gore than for Bush, even though Bush received more votes.

Oddly, they simultaneously claimed the election was "too close to call". That is, on one moment they said the election was so close a winner has not yet been determined. Yet in the next breath they claim they know more people intended to vote for Gore.

Again, Democrats want you to believe that if the disqualified ballots were somehow counted it would reveal a Gore victory. That is, all dimples, pregnant chads, etc., were supposed to be votes for Gore and it was just too difficult for his voters to indicate so.



"All we seek is a fair count of the votes!"

Truth - Al Gore wanted to find more votes. As such, he selected the top Democrat counties to conduct manual recounts. He ignored the rest of the state, which included many counties that had much higher percentage of disqualified ballots than any of the counties he selected.

(This brings up yet another point of confusion. Gore wants you to think he requested a State wide recount, but he didn't. If he really wanted a statewide recount he could have made requests to all counties, just has did for the Democrat counties.)

Further, Democrats never proved there was anything wrong with the original tabulations other than that Gore lost. They were never concerned about a "fair" count. Rather, they wanted manual recounts in Democrat counties in order to employ subjective interpretation on ambiguous ballots. Eventually, Gore and the liberal Florida Supreme Court focused only on undervotes, leaving overvotes out all together (100,000 ballots!)




"Florida voters were disenfranchised!"

Truth - In order to convince you that voters were disenfranchised, Democrats began saying that they were concerned about election "anomalies". Yet, not a single anomaly has risen from the chaos to disqualify the election. Even more ridiculous, Gore suggested that he wanted to fix so called anomalies by having manual recounts in Democrat counties. Democrats sent an army of lawyers and operatives who could exploit normal election happenstances through litigation and hysteria.




"Some ballots were never counted in Florida, not even once!"

Truth - This was said by famous liberal lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, just days after the election. Dershowitz appeared on national television in order to begin priming America for manual recounts in Democrat counties. He deceived citizens by saying some votes "haven't been counted even once".

This is an example of Democrats deliberately combining the terms "ballots" and "votes". Dershowitz wanted you to think they are same and that somehow citizens had their votes thrown out, a frightening scenario that suggested fraud. But Dershowitz failed to mention that disqualified ballots were reviewed twice by Florida's normal tabulation systems and the ballots do not properly indicate a choice for a candidate. Likewise, they occurred in every county throughout Florida, not just the counties where Gore thought he could pickup additional votes.




"Bush refused a statewide recount"

Truth - After losing the election Gore appeared on national television and said he would welcome a full statewide recount as long as "Bush would go along with it." This was an absurd moment. Gore could have protested any county he wanted and could have requested recounts without Bush's "approval".

But by stating to the public he wanted a statewide recount, Gore disguised his real hunt for new votes. While Democrats were busy destroying the election Gore knew his "proposal" would make him look like the "fair" candidate amidst the chaos. He also knew that people like Michael Moore would later use it to defend him.

Gore made it appear that candidates were entitled to recounts anywhere and anytime they wanted, and this was not true.

papasmurf11
Oct 10th, 2004, 04:13 PM
Come on Kerry bring full sentences back to the White house!

Martian Willow
Oct 10th, 2004, 04:15 PM
They need to deploy UN observers to monitor these elections, like in other democratically backward countries. Obviously can't be trusted. Should junk those voting machines too. Something fishy going on there.

Bacardi
Oct 10th, 2004, 07:32 PM
Reports are today that the Afgan elections have been fixed and also need investigation. Several people voted more than once, etc. Go figure, anything Bush helps with as far as elections go, will be fixed and screwed royally!

JustineTime
Oct 10th, 2004, 07:36 PM
Reports are today that the Afgan elections have been fixed and also need investigation. Several people voted more than once, etc. Go figure, anything Bush helps with as far as elections go, will be fixed and screwed royally!
:haha: :haha:

You guys kill me! :)

Oh my! :)

Al Gore sure woulda given those Taliban what-for! :mad:

:haha:

JustineTime
Oct 10th, 2004, 07:37 PM
Once he got out from under his desk, that is! :)

Bacardi
Oct 10th, 2004, 07:43 PM
Actually MORON, you should pay attention. For the 2000 election I voted for GEORGE W BUSH and CHENEY. I hated Al Gore with a passion, I'd be just as against him if he had made president this year and voted for his opponent. So wise up on what you are talking about.

I'm not as much of a leftie as you think. What I care about is someone that's going to make a difference instead of pile driving this country into the ground for another 4 years. That's right, the candidate I helped choose fucked up royally in my book so I refuse to vote him in for another term. I don't exactly like Kerry, but hell 4 years of Kerry looks like roses and sunshine to 4 more years of Bush. If Bush happens to win, I'm going to start looking into leaving the USA!

Shane54
Oct 10th, 2004, 07:47 PM
Because people are more concerned about their political party. What ever happening to be independent and selecting a candidate on how he will help you in the future. People are just full of ignorant "liberals" or "conservatives", that they are blinded by their candidates mistrust(Bush) and just plain ignorance. The Bush camp actually thought he did well, with all of his tantrums and immature reactions, and disrespecting the moderator. Kerry needs to stop saying "I have a plan", and instead of say go to johnkerry.com, explain it in lamen terms that appeal to most americans.
Good point! Although we may disagree, I respect your fair game view. It is refreshing. ;)

Shane54
Oct 10th, 2004, 07:48 PM
Come on Kerry bring full sentences back to the White house!
That's about all he has to offer:rolleyes:

Bacardi
Oct 10th, 2004, 07:51 PM
Any gay individual that votes for George W Bush, almost deserves what happens to them. Unfortuantely the rest of us, have to suffer for what a few idiots couldn't do. I guess they're too busy hiding in the closet. Then again, Repubs have gay-dar, they'll smell you out and if we can re-elect Bush and then whatever next Repub comes into office, maybe they'll ban homosexuality all together. And those of us that are, can enjoy life in a peaceful concentration camp. The only thing that's keeping George W from completely doing something outrageous against the homosexual is Cheney, who doesn't want to see his daugther behind bars for what she is.

Bacardi
Oct 10th, 2004, 07:59 PM
Oh JustineTime, ignoring the fact that a Bush Supporter can do something the President can't and admit she made a mistake in who she voted for. Then again I hated Gore completely, so I still would have voted for Bush. I'm not a Democrat or a Republican, I'm for whatever is best for the Nation. What every level headed American should be!

*JR*
Oct 10th, 2004, 08:06 PM
Right! :yeah:

'Cause it was only black democrats who were "disenfranchised", not old white republicans. :rolleyes: Oy vey!

They weren't disenfranchised! They were too incompetent to punch a chad. This is pure lefty tripe, Roger! You guys and Al Gore need to get over it! :lol: :tape:

:rolleyes: You're confusing 2 different things. Those black Democrats who didn't have felony convictions but still never got to touch a ballot weren't too incompetent to punch a chad. Maybe you meant to say they were "too incompetent 2B white".

Bacardi
Oct 10th, 2004, 08:10 PM
JR forget it, JustineTime is pissed off I called the First Lady a murderer because she ran a stop sign in the 60s and killed her ex boyfriend. What would you call it? Any other court of law calls it a form of murder. Now JustineTime won't even come in here and post because I defined to the little robot that I am not a Dem or a Repub, I simply vote for the best choice for America. Hence, JustineTime doesn't want to hear someone actually uses their brain to choose a candidate and not a side they claim to be. Democrats/Republicans, hell they should all be concerned with the same thing, choosing the proper leader for American and who they feel will do the best job. Not who their party feels would do the best job.

*JR*
Oct 10th, 2004, 08:15 PM
JR forget it, JustineTime is pissed off I called the First Lady a murderer because she ran a stop sign in the 60s and killed her ex boyfriend. What would you call it? Any other court of law calls it a form of murder. Now JustineTime won't even come in here and post because I defined to the little robot that I am not a Dem or a Repub, I simply vote for the best choice for America. Hence, JustineTime doesn't want to hear someone actually uses their brain to choose a candidate and not a side they claim to be. Democrats/Republicans, hell they should all be concerned with the same thing, choosing the proper leader for American and who they feel will do the best job. Not who their party feels would do the best job.I replied to the Laura Bush thing in the other thread. I honestly think the heated rhetoric used by Kerry supporters like you and Dawn Marie isn't helpful.

Bacardi
Oct 10th, 2004, 08:20 PM
It's not helpful anyway. Because let's face it, a majority of the Bush supporters or even Kerry supporters are blinded by voting for their Party only. They wouldn't know how to choose a candidate on their own without the parties help if it came up and bit them on the ass!

Central
Oct 10th, 2004, 10:24 PM
Vamos Kerry!!! :bounce:

If we got Rodríguez-Zapatero as Spanish Presi, it means everything can happen ;)

kabuki
Oct 10th, 2004, 10:36 PM
Where's the "hate", man? :confused: :shrug:

Quotes, please! :)

Don't play coy, JustineTime. Your posts drip with arrogance, condescension and hate for anyone who disagrees with you. The Good Shepherd does not appreciate it. Fortunately, since I am among the heretical masses, I can be as hateful as I want!

UDiTY
Oct 11th, 2004, 12:51 AM
:rocker:

kabuki
Oct 12th, 2004, 02:07 AM
:wavey:

Beat
Oct 12th, 2004, 01:11 PM
i'm kinda pissed that the george w. bsuh thread got more replies (not because of more supporters, but because of all the discussions) than this one, so i'll have to add my post here. :)