PDA

View Full Version : Bush's Harvard Professor Speaks Out


Venus Forever
Oct 2nd, 2004, 04:40 PM
Bush's former Harvard Business School professor, Yoshi Tsurumi,recalls George W. Bush not just as a terrible student but as spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar.

For 25 years, Yoshi Tsurumi, one of George W. Bush's professors at Harvard Business School, was content with his green-card status as a permanent legal resident of the United States. But Bush's ascension to the presidency in 2001 prompted the Japanese native to secure his American citizenship. The reason: to be able to speak out with the full authority of citizenship about why he believes Bush lacks the character and intellect to lead the world's oldest and most powerful democracy.

"I don't remember all the students in detail unless I'm prompted by something," Tsurumi said in a telephone interview Wednesday. "But I always remember two types of students. One is the very excellent student, the type as a professor you feel honored to be working with. Someone with strong social values, compassion and intellect - the very rare person you never forget. And then you remember students like George Bush, those who are totally the opposite."

The future president was one of 85 first-year MBA students in Tsurumi's macroeconomic policies and international business class in the fall of 1973 and spring of 1974. Tsurumi was a visiting associate professor at Harvard Business School from January 1972 to August 1976; today, he is a professor of international business at Baruch College in New York.

Trading as usual on his father's connections, Bush entered Harvard in 1973 for a two-year program. He'd just come off what George H.W. Bush had once called his eldest son's "nomadic years" - partying, drifting from job to job, working on political campaigns in Florida and Alabama and, most famously, apparently not showing up for duty in the Alabama National Guard.

Harvard Business School's rigorous teaching methods, in which the professor interacts aggressively with students, and students are encouraged to challenge each other sharply, offered important insights into Bush, Tsurumi said. In observing students' in-class performances, "you develop pretty good ideas about what are their weaknesses and strengths in terms of thinking, analysis, their prejudices, their backgrounds and other things that students reveal," he said.

One of Tsurumi's standout students was Rep. Chris Cox, R-Calif., now the seventh-ranking member of the House Republican leadership. "I typed him as a conservative Republican with a conscience," Tsurumi said. "He never confused his own ideology with economics, and he didn't try to hide his ignorance of a subject in mumbo jumbo. He was what I call a principled conservative." (Though clearly a partisan one. On Wednesday, Cox called for a congressional investigation of the validity of documents that CBS News obtained for a story questioning Bush's attendance at Guard duty in Alabama.)

Bush, by contrast, "was totally the opposite of Chris Cox," Tsurumi said. "He showed pathological lying habits and was in denial when challenged on his prejudices and biases. He would even deny saying something he just said 30 seconds ago. He was famous for that. Students jumped on him; I challenged him." When asked to explain a particular comment, said Tsurumi, Bush would respond, "Oh, I never said that." A White House spokeswoman did not return a phone call seeking comment.

In 1973, as the oil and energy crisis raged, Tsurumi led a discussion on whether government should assist retirees and other people on fixed incomes with heating costs. Bush, he recalled, "made this ridiculous statement and when I asked him to explain, he said, 'The government doesn't have to help poor people - because they are lazy.' I said, 'Well, could you explain that assumption?' Not only could he not explain it, he started backtracking on it, saying, 'No, I didn't say that.'"

If Cox had been in the same class, Tsurumi said, "I could have asked him to challenge that and he would have demolished it. Not personally or emotionally, but intellectually."

Bush once sneered at Tsurumi for showing the film "The Grapes of Wrath," based on John Steinbeck's novel of the Depression. "We were in a discussion of the New Deal, and he called Franklin Roosevelt's policies 'socialism.' He denounced labor unions, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Medicare, Social Security, you name it. He denounced the civil rights movement as socialism. To him, socialism and communism were the same thing. And when challenged to explain his prejudice, he could not defend his argument, either ideologically, polemically or academically."

Students who challenged and embarrassed Bush in class would then become the subject of a whispering campaign by him, Tsurumi said. "In class, he couldn't challenge them. But after class, he sometimes came up to me in the hallway and started bad-mouthing those students who had challenged him. He would complain that someone was drinking too much. It was innuendo and lies. So that's how I knew, behind his smile and his smirk, that he was a very insecure, cunning and vengeful guy."

Many of Tsurumi's students came from well-connected or wealthy families, but good manners prevented them from boasting about it, the professor said. But Bush seemed unabashed about the connections that had brought him to Harvard. "The other children of the rich and famous were at least well bred to the point of realizing universal values and standards of behavior," Tsurumi said. But Bush sometimes came late to class and often sat in the back row of the theater-like classroom, wearing a bomber jacket from the Texas Air National Guard and spitting chewing tobacco into a cup.

"At first, I wondered, 'Who is this George Bush?' It's a very common name and I didn't know his background. And he was such a bad student that I asked him once how he got in. He said, 'My dad has good friends.'" Bush scored in the lowest 10 percent of the class.

The Vietnam War was still roiling campuses and Harvard was no exception. Bush expressed strong support for the war but admitted to Tsurumi that he'd gotten a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard through his father's connections.

"I used to chat up a number of students when we were walking back to class," Tsurumi said. "Here was Bush, wearing a Texas Guard bomber jacket, and the draft was the No. 1 topic in those days. And I said, 'George, what did you do with the draft?' He said, 'Well, I got into the Texas Air National Guard.' And I said, 'Lucky you. I understand there is a long waiting list for it. How'd you get in?' When he told me, he didn't seem ashamed or embarrassed. He thought he was entitled to all kinds of privileges and special deals. He was not the only one trying to twist all their connections to avoid Vietnam. But then, he was fanatically for the war."

Tsurumi told Bush that someone who avoided a draft while supporting a war in which others were dying was a hypocrite. "He realized he was caught, showed his famous smirk and huffed off."

Tsurumi's conclusion: Bush is not as dumb as his detractors allege. "He was just badly brought up, with no discipline, and no compassion," he said.

In recent days, Tsurumi has told his story to various print and television outlets and appears in Kitty Kelley's exposé "The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty." He said other professors and students at the business school from that time share his recollections but are afraid to come forward, fearing ostracism or retribution. And why is Tsurumi speaking up now? Because with the ongoing bloodshed in Iraq and Osama bin Laden still on the loose - not to mention a federal deficit ballooning out of control - the stakes are too high to remain silent. "Obviously, I don't think he is the best person" to be running the country, he said. "I wanted to explain why."

kabuki
Oct 2nd, 2004, 05:01 PM
I wish I was surprised.

Venus Forever
Oct 2nd, 2004, 05:04 PM
I wish I was surprised.
I thought the same thing.

Bacardi
Oct 2nd, 2004, 05:05 PM
In 1973, as the oil and energy crisis raged, Tsurumi led a discussion on whether government should assist retirees and other people on fixed incomes with heating costs. Bush, he recalled, "made this ridiculous statement and when I asked him to explain, he said, 'The government doesn't have to help poor people - because they are lazy.' I said, 'Well, could you explain that assumption?' Not only could he not explain it, he started backtracking on it, saying, 'No, I didn't say that.'"



It's nice to see W hasn't changed his stance on that, he's still cutting the fuel assitance programs for the poor in the USA. He's keeping true on his word, to him the world would probably be a better place if everyone who didn't make at least $70,000 a year died!

Venus Forever
Oct 2nd, 2004, 05:07 PM
It's nice to see W hasn't changed his stance on that, he's still cutting the fuel assitance programs for the poor in the USA. He's keeping true on his word, to him the world would probably be a better place if everyone who didn't make at least $70,000 a year died!
He sure is consistent, huh?? :lol:

Bacardi
Oct 2nd, 2004, 05:25 PM
We can't call him a 'flip flopper' but we sure as hell can call him a 'stubborn, jackass, idiot'.

BTW, I picked up an awesome CD yesterday. Check it out online here at:
http://www.punkvoter.com

Here's a picture of it, it's 28 punk/rock bands that all HATE W! :) :yeah:
http://musicmedia.ign.com/music/image/RAB2album_082504.jpg

Martian Willow
Oct 2nd, 2004, 11:15 PM
For 25 years, Yoshi Tsurumi, one of George W. Bush's professors at Harvard Business School, was content with his green-card status as a permanent legal resident of the United States. But Bush's ascension to the presidency in 2001 prompted the Japanese native to secure his American citizenship. The reason: to be able to speak out with the full authority of citizenship about why he believes Bush lacks the character and intellect to lead the world's oldest and most powerful democracy.

He's not a British citizen either, so he couldn't lead the world's oldest democracy anyway.

CJ07
Oct 2nd, 2004, 11:53 PM
why do you guys have to be so mean to George? He was what, 20?

MisterQ
Oct 3rd, 2004, 12:00 AM
why do you guys have to be so mean to George? He was what, 20?

He enrolled at Harvard Business School in 1973, so he would have been 27. (born 6 July 1946). He graduated in 1975.

jenny161185
Oct 3rd, 2004, 12:02 AM
o george!!!

Venus Forever
Oct 3rd, 2004, 12:36 AM
why do you guys have to be so mean to George? He was what, 20?
Most people's views on society and the world are set in their 20s.

Not to mention that the Bush of the 70s is eerily similar to the Bush of today: Vengeful, Deceitful, a liar, etc....

spartanfan
Oct 3rd, 2004, 03:01 AM
I wish I was surprised.
Ditto.

harloo
Oct 3rd, 2004, 03:05 AM
Uh Venus Forever do you have a source?

Venus Forever
Oct 3rd, 2004, 03:31 AM
Uh Venus Forever do you have a source?
Sorry, here ya go: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/13/bush.professor/

CJ07
Oct 3rd, 2004, 03:56 AM
Most people's views on society and the world are set in their 20s.

Not to mention that the Bush of the 70s is eerily similar to the Bush of today: Vengeful, Deceitful, a liar, etc....
:rolleyes:

Ok you know, I have to say something.

This is just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO disrespectful and unnecesarry.
Not you personally, but the entire left wing is just so callous toward George Bush.
I'm not going to say the right wing wasn't to Bill, but this is just as bad if not worse.

Look, I know ya'll lost, when you should've won. Yes we stole the election.
Yes the war in Iraq is something that isn't great, and yes the economy wasn't what it once was.

But you know what? George is doing everything he possibly can to make things better the best way he knows how. He's not part of some vast right wing conspiracy or whatever, and he's not only interested in the rich. That's just being disrespectful of his state as a leader. I'm not going to lie and say that he doesn't look out for those with the deepest pockets, but EVERYBODY does. It's an unfortunate part of politics.

I'm not saying you have to agree with his ideology, but calling him names and defaming and ridiculing YOUR PRESIDENT is just so childish.

And that goes for BOTH sides. The Republican party was just wrong toward the Clintons and even Kerry to a lesser degree. This political jargon is just so retarted.
I know everyone has their different opinions, but y'all need to be concerned with making things better, not worse.

Jeez

Venus Forever
Oct 3rd, 2004, 04:12 AM
:rolleyes:

Ok you know, I have to say something.

This is just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO disrespectful and unnecesarry.
Not you personally, but the entire left wing is just so callous toward George Bush.
I'm not going to say the right wing wasn't to Bill, but this is just as bad if not worse.

Look, I know ya'll lost, when you should've won. Yes we stole the election.
Yes the war in Iraq is something that isn't great, and yes the economy wasn't what it once was.

But you know what? George is doing everything he possibly can to make things better the best way he knows how. He's not part of some vast right wing conspiracy or whatever, and he's not only interested in the rich. That's just being disrespectful of his state as a leader. I'm not going to lie and say that he doesn't look out for those with the deepest pockets, but EVERYBODY does. It's an unfortunate part of politics.

I'm not saying you have to agree with his ideology, but calling him names and defaming and ridiculing YOUR PRESIDENT is just so childish.

And that goes for BOTH sides. The Republican party was just wrong toward the Clintons and even Kerry to a lesser degree. This political jargon is just so retarted.
I know everyone has their different opinions, but y'all need to be concerned with making things better, not worse.

Jeez
Hmmm, if he's trying as hard as he can, than that's EXACTLY why we need a new president. He's a FAILURE in everything he has done in office. What exactly has he accomplished??

He deceived the people with the reasons to the Iraqi war. Even if he believed the intelligence he had, he still rushed into the war WAY TOO SOON.

The economy took a HUGE hit 9-11. His fault?? Not really, but he hasn't done much to bring it back to where it was. Not to mention unemplooyment is still very bad, and seems to fluctuate monthly.

Not interested in the rich?? No, of course not. That's not why he designed a tax plan that favored 1% of the American people, who just happened to be the wealthiest people in America.

Childish?? Free speech is what it's called, which is what makes the US of A so damn great. Too bad we have a terrible leader who deceives the American people time after time, not only with the Iraqi war, but with his past as well.

What's worse?? An American citizen criticizing his president for his failure of a job performance, or a President who lies to the American people time and time again, and fails in every aspect of what his job curtails.

I'm still waiting to see what actions he has taken to implicate some of the findings in the 9-11 Reports, and call back Congress so we can in stall them, but we'll probably have to wait for next year for that now too.

Still waiting to see what he'll do with the gun laws that just recently expired. Please, tell me if he has done something, because I surely haven't heard anything. Hmmm, I wonder how he could have let it expired. Could it have been because of the NRA, who is a very powerful lobbying group?? I wouldn't be surprised if Bush cares more about the support of the rich members of the NRA than than of the every-day American whose lives are in jeopardy with this law expiring.

jbone_0307
Oct 3rd, 2004, 04:23 AM
Also I dont know the details, but if Bush allows such laws not to be extended, then possibly African Americans will not be eligible to vote after 2007. There was not a law ensuring the voting rights of minorities, but a lift, which would expire in 2007.

Bacardi
Oct 3rd, 2004, 04:37 AM
George's Best, or whatever you want to call it, just isn't good enough. It's time for a change!

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 3rd, 2004, 04:46 AM
Bush is a dangerous character and all that. I hope he loses the election. But am I the only one who finds this rather unethical on the part of his former university teacher?

Quite a few of us here on this list have done some teaching. Some of you have made a profession out of it. I don't know what you guys think, but to me the teaching relationship has to be one of trust and confidence. Students have to know that the views they express in classroom debate will not come back and haunt them. As a teacher, you might think a particular student is a moron or a jerk, or whatever, and you hand out grades. You give (honest) references if they ask you to. But one thing you never do is use what goes on in class discussions against your students in their later lives. IMHO, doing something like that for your own personal or political reasons is totally wrong.

Circe
Oct 3rd, 2004, 04:53 AM
i detest Bush as much as anyone else. (hardly a secret, is it?)
BUT i must say that to bring up his university career etc is not called for. i mean it's highly unlikely i'll ever run for public office, but if everything i did in school was to be held up against me, i'd come out looking rather stupid myself. we do silly things in school (and college i suppose) and dont get along with certain teachers. its best left at that.

ys
Oct 3rd, 2004, 04:55 AM
yes, yes, and he was stealing candies from kids too..

Wigglytuff
Oct 3rd, 2004, 06:13 AM
It's nice to see W hasn't changed his stance on that, he's still cutting the fuel assitance programs for the poor in the USA. He's keeping true on his word, to him the world would probably be a better place if everyone who didn't make at least $70,000 a year died!
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

:kiss: :hearts: :kiss: :hearts: @Bacardi

why do you guys have to be so mean to George? He was what, 20?
1-as others have said he was older than 25

2-if i remember correctly, the age when someone is an ADULT and expected to act like one is 18. as an adult he is fair game.

3-the fact that you would defend a grown man saying things like " poor people are just lazy" says alot about you.

:rolleyes:

Ok you know, I have to say something.

This is just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO disrespectful and unnecesarry.
Not you personally, but the entire left wing is just so callous toward George Bush.
I'm not going to say the right wing wasn't to Bill, but this is just as bad if not worse.

Look, I know ya'll lost, when you should've won. Yes we stole the election.
Yes the war in Iraq is something that isn't great, and yes the economy wasn't what it once was.

But you know what? George is doing everything he possibly can to make things better the best way he knows how. He's not part of some vast right wing conspiracy or whatever, and he's not only interested in the rich. That's just being disrespectful of his state as a leader. I'm not going to lie and say that he doesn't look out for those with the deepest pockets, but EVERYBODY does. It's an unfortunate part of politics.

I'm not saying you have to agree with his ideology, but calling him names and defaming and ridiculing YOUR PRESIDENT is just so childish.

And that goes for BOTH sides. The Republican party was just wrong toward the Clintons and even Kerry to a lesser degree. This political jargon is just so retarted.
I know everyone has their different opinions, but y'all need to be concerned with making things better, not worse.

Jeez

whats your damage? in a FREE COUNTRY you can insult whatever fucking president you want and asking people to just sit back and let this monster, yes i said monster because anyone who cuts after school programs to pay for tax cuts for the top 1% wealthiest americans is a monster, asking people to just sit back and say nothing is UN FUCKING AMERICAN!!! AMERICA WAS FOUNDED ON THE RIGHT TO PROTEST AND YES THE RIGHT TO BE MEAN TO UNJUST LEADERS.

Wigglytuff
Oct 3rd, 2004, 06:17 AM
yes, yes, and he was stealing candies from kids too..

i was actually just reading about cuts to healthcare and and child care for the poorest americans, and cutting education, outreach and food programs for homeless children and babies!


TIP: when using extreme examples make sure the are not ACTUALLY true. because if they are (as bush is really truely stealling food from the mouths of babies, and homeless babies at that) it makes you look silly and uniformed.

Wigglytuff
Oct 3rd, 2004, 06:27 AM
Bush is a dangerous character and all that. I hope he loses the election. But am I the only one who finds this rather unethical on the part of his former university teacher?

Quite a few of us here on this list have done some teaching. Some of you have made a profession out of it. I don't know what you guys think, but to me the teaching relationship has to be one of trust and confidence. Students have to know that the views they express in classroom debate will not come back and haunt them. As a teacher, you might think a particular student is a moron or a jerk, or whatever, and you hand out grades. You give (honest) references if they ask you to. But one thing you never do is use what goes on in class discussions against your students in their later lives. IMHO, doing something like that for your own personal or political reasons is totally wrong.

as a student teacher i understand what you mean. but i have to say, if he was a minor or even a young college kid i would agree, but if he was as projected over 25, an adult, not a child, i think its fair for these reasons:

1-he was an adult
2-if the prof is to be believed, it was bush not the prof that first brought the results of these classroom discussion, outside the classroom as the prof noted.
3-if the prof was saying how wonder and gran a student he was would these same rules apply? i am not saying you are a support just asking?
would it be this big immoral deal if the proff was recalling what a great student he was and how he always gave all of himself to the classroom?

OUT!
Oct 3rd, 2004, 03:11 PM
He's not a British citizen either, so he couldn't lead the world's oldest democracy anyway.I thought that honour went to Iceland? :)

switz
Oct 3rd, 2004, 03:26 PM
i love bush bashing, but to be honest most of these professor are massive snobs anyway.

Infiniti2001
Oct 3rd, 2004, 03:33 PM
Bush, by contrast, "was totally the opposite of Chris Cox," Tsurumi said. "He showed pathological lying habits and was in denial when challenged on his prejudices and biases. He would even deny saying something he just said 30 seconds ago. He was famous for that. Students jumped on him; I challenged him." When asked to explain a particular comment, said Tsurumi, Bush would respond, "Oh, I never said that." A White House spokeswoman did not return a phone call seeking comment.

In 1973, as the oil and energy crisis raged, Tsurumi led a discussion on whether government should assist retirees and other people on fixed incomes with heating costs. Bush, he recalled, "made this ridiculous statement and when I asked him to explain, he said, 'The government doesn't have to help poor people - because they are lazy.' I said, 'Well, could you explain that assumption?' Not only could he not explain it, he started backtracking on it, saying, 'No, I didn't say that.'"

I dunno about anyone else, but that's the bush I saw on Thusrday night. You know, the ignorant, lazy, smug rich boy. :tape:

harloo
Oct 3rd, 2004, 06:44 PM
and he's not only interested in the rich


SMM are you serious?:tape: :lol:

CJ07
Oct 3rd, 2004, 10:57 PM
look y'all, I don't even like George Bush. Quite frankly I liked John McCain MUCH better.
Much more articulate and compassionate and well presented.

I don't like John Kerry. I'm sure he's a nice man and all, but he is so wishy washy and just doesn't appear to have a consistant answer to things. He's all what George is doing wrong, versus what he will do right.

I liked Bill. Quite frankly, they need to change the constitution and just make Bill president for however long he wants. Because neither option right now will cut it in my opinion.

As what George is trying to do well, the economy is booming, jobs are being replaced and things are slowly getting better. 9/11 was a HUGE event. Things aren't moving as swiftly as they did before.

Wigglytuff
Oct 4th, 2004, 03:23 AM
look y'all, I don't even like George Bush. Quite frankly I liked John McCain MUCH better.
Much more articulate and compassionate and well presented.

I don't like John Kerry. I'm sure he's a nice man and all, but he is so wishy washy and just doesn't appear to have a consistant answer to things. He's all what George is doing wrong, versus what he will do right.

I liked Bill. Quite frankly, they need to change the constitution and just make Bill president for however long he wants. Because neither option right now will cut it in my opinion.

As what George is trying to do well, the economy is booming, jobs are being replaced and things are slowly getting better. 9/11 was a HUGE event. Things aren't moving as swiftly as they did before.

what are you on?

"the ecomony is booming"

seriously? do you read these things before you post them?

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 4th, 2004, 03:35 AM
In answer to Searchlight's questions:

1. Age isn't the issue. In the classroom you should have room to take part in discussions without people bringing up silly things that you might say, or things you might say for the sake of the discussion, without them being used against you later. Even if he had been a 60 y.o. mature age student, the ethical thing for a teacher would be not to use what he says against him in this way. I don't think teachers' obligations of this kind are as strong as those of doctors, lawyers, and ministers of religion ... but I do take them seriously.

2. I can't find the place where Bush supposedly started it. Maybe it's there somewhere in that loooong article, so you'll have to point it out to me.

3. Since the issue is one of being able to trust your teacher not to come back later and use what you say against you, there would not be the same ethical issue if the teacher had something good about him, though even then I think it would be a bit tacky getting into the detail of class discussion.

More generally, I'd have little or no problem if the teacher had just said that Bush got bad grades or even that he seemed like a jerk. It's the dragging out of things said by the student in the classroom, or otherwise in a relationship of trust with the teacher, that bothers me.

Wigglytuff
Oct 4th, 2004, 03:43 AM
ok. thats cool, i mean i felt your concern was valid, so i was just pointing why i didnt really thing it was a concern for me, i think all in all its a whole nother discussion.

as for the part were bush started it, there is a point were he brieflly talks about how bush would talk aobut his in class issues outside of class instead of dealing with them as they were happening. sorry i dont feel like re-reading it and diging for qoutes.

In answer to Searchlight's questions:

1. Age isn't the issue. In the classroom you should have room to take part in discussions without people bringing up silly things that you might say, or things you might say for the sake of the discussion, without them being used against you later. Even if he had been a 60 y.o. mature age student, the ethical thing for a teacher would be not to use what he says against him in this way. I don't think teachers' obligations of this kind are as strong as those of doctors, lawyers, and ministers of religion ... but I do take them seriously.

2. I can't find the place where Bush supposedly started it. Maybe it's there somewhere in that loooong article, so you'll have to point it out to me.

3. Since the issue is one of being able to trust your teacher not to come back later and use what you say against you, there would not be the same ethical issue if the teacher had something good about him, though even then I think it would be a bit tacky getting into the detail of class discussion.

More generally, I'd have little or no problem if the teacher had just said that Bush got bad grades or even that he seemed like a jerk. It's the dragging out of things said by the student in the classroom, or otherwise in a relationship of trust with the teacher, that bothers me.