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Volcana
Sep 24th, 2004, 04:30 AM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese74.html

Vote For A Man, Not A Puppet
By Charlie Reese

Americans should realize that if they vote for President Bush's re-election, they are really voting for the architects of war ---Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and the rest of that cabal of neocons ervative ideologues and their corporate backers.
I have sadly come to the conclusion that President Bush is merely a front
man, an empty suit, who is manipulated by the people in his administration. Bush has the most dangerously simplistic view of the world of any president
in my memory. It's no wonder the president avoids press conferences like the plague. Take away his cue cards and he can barely talk.

Americans should be embarrassed that an Arab king (Abdullah of Jordan)
spoke more fluently and articulately in English than our own president at their
joint press conference recently. John Kerry is at least an educated man, well-read, who knows how to think and who knows that the world is a great deal more complex than Bush's comic-book world of American heroes and foreign evildoers. It's unfortunate that in our poorly educated country, Kerry's very intelligence and refusal to adopt simplistic slogans might doom his presidential election efforts. But Thomas Jefferson said it well, as he did so often, when he observed that people who expect to be ignorant and free expect what never was and never will be.

People who think of themselves as conservatives will really display
their stupidity, as I did in the last election, by voting for Bush. Bush is as
far from being a conservative as you can get. Well, he fooled me once, but he
won't fool me twice.

It is not at all conservative to balloon government spending, to vastly
increase the power of government, to show contempt for the Constitution and the rule of law, or to tell people that foreign outsourcing of American
jobs is good for them, that giant fiscal and trade deficits don't matter, and
that people should not know what their government is doing. Bush is the
most prone-to-classify, the most secretive president in the 20th century. His
administration leans dangerously toward the authoritarian.

It's no wonder that the Justice Department has convicted a few Arab-Americans of supporting terrorism. What would you do if you found yourself arrested and a federal prosecutor whispers in your ear that either you can plea-bargain this or the president will designate you an enemy combatant and you'll be held incommunicado for the duration?

This election really is important, not only for domestic reasons, but
because Bush's foreign policy has been a dangerous disaster. He's almost restarted the Cold War with Russia and the nuclear arms race. America is not only hated in the Middle East, but it has few friends anywhere in the world due to the arrogance and ineptness of the Bush administration. Don't forget, a scientific poll of Europeans found us, Israel, North Korea and Iran as the greatest threats to world peace. I will swallow a lot of petty policy differences with Kerry to get a man in the White House with brains enough not to blow up the world and us with it.

Go to Kerry's Web site (www.johnkerry.com (http://www.johnkerry.com)) and read some of the magazine
profiles on him. You'll find that there is a great deal more to Kerry than the GOP attack dogs would have you believe. Besides, it would be fun to have
a president who plays hockey, wind surfs, rides motorcycles, plays the guitar, writes poetry and speaks French.

It would be good to have a man in the White House who has killed people face to face. Killing people has a sobering effect on a man and dispels all illusions.

Volcana
Sep 24th, 2004, 04:31 AM
YOu gotta understand that Charlie Reese is a conservative's conservative. I'm shocked I'm actually posting ANYTHING he wrote. As an editor at the Orlando Sentinel, he ENDORSED Bush in 2000.

But for al the people who think all I do is search out articles by liberals bashing Bush and post them, here's an article by a conservative. A REAL conservative.

Volcana
Sep 24th, 2004, 04:33 AM
http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=3215

Throwing the Book at Bush
by Charley Reese
Books keep pouring off the presses on the subject of why George W. Bush should not be reelected. I got four in my mailbox recently. Bush might be the biggest boon to book publishing since Harry Potter.

The most serious of the four books is The Bubble of American Supremacy (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1586482173/antiwarbookstore), by George Soros. The most superficial is Bush Must Go (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0525948406), by TV personality Bill Press. The most left-wing is The Book on Bush: How George W. (Mis)leads America (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0670032735/antiwarbookstore), by Eric Alterman and Mark Green. It is also the most tedious. My God, but progressive writers do need a sense of humor.

http://antiwar.com/reese/bovard2.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/140396727X/antiwarbookstore)The best of the bunch by far is The Bush Betrayal (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/140396727X/antiwarbookstore), by one of my favorite writers, James Bovard. Bovard is a scrupulously accurate researcher of facts. His philosophical framework is the same as that of Thomas Jefferson. Press, Alterman and Green are mad at Bush for being too far to the right for their socialist tastes. Bovard points out Bush's betrayal of conservative and libertarian principles. Though far more leftist than Bovard, Soros also points out Bush's betrayal of the principles of an open society.

Bovard, however, in addition to being a fine writer, has not allowed the mess in Washington to plunge him into pessimism. He can still see the humor in much of the mayhem, goofiness and outright stupidity that characterizes so much of government bureaucracy.

His tactic is to quote Bush or Bush's step-and-fetchers and then simply point out the great gap between what Bush and his people say and what the facts are. These gaps are so many and so deep that one can fairly conclude that nothing Bush ever says should be taken at face value.

Like Bovard, I deeply resent a phony conservative – a politician who talks one way and acts exactly the opposite. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney might fairly be called reactionaries, but they are not conservatives in the traditional sense of that word. Being a big spender, a despoiler of the environment, a fearmonger, an ally-alienator, a reckless warmonger and an imperialist does not qualify for the title "conservative." Practicing secrecy and deception and displaying an open contempt for the Constitution and international law are likewise not the characteristics of a conservative.

As Bovard says: "Dying for Bush's lies should not be considered a lofty cause. ... Bush is still expecting to be cheered and revered for his courage in 'making a tough decision.' It is as if the more Americans who die for Bush's folly, the more undeniable his greatness becomes."

Bovard's suggestion, in case we are misfortunate enough to have Bush for four more years, is to greet his grandiose delusions with catcalls and laughter. Bush, he says, is as qualified to talk about freedom as Bill Clinton is to talk about chastity.

An enormous factual database exists documenting the folly of the Bush administration not only in these books but in others that have been published. Clearly the job of president is over Bush's head. He has proven himself to be dangerously incompetent. He has surrounded himself with ideologues totally disconnected from reality. The Pentagon's Paul Wolfowitz, considered the architect of the Iraq War, showed in recent testimony before Congress that he had no idea how many American lives had been lost. So much for this administration's concern for the troops.

Bush's reelection depends entirely on willful ignorance. He might well ride the sea of ignorance right back into the White House. It would not be the first time Americans have chosen the demagogue over the competent.

But if you intend to vote for Bush, you should at least read the record and not depend on the Republican propaganda machine. The current Republican Party's almost total reliance on character assassination, guilt by association and outright distortions of the truth remind one of what was going on in the 1930s in Europe.

Hagar
Sep 24th, 2004, 07:51 AM
Volcana, I hear you and as a European I can say that George W. stands for every negative trait Europeans allocate to the USA (and we do acknowledge its good traits), plus John Kerry is definitely the kind of president we would like the USA to have.
Unfortunately, I think this is a bit like how the West perceived Gorbatsjov at the time: we liked him a lot but the Russians themselves preferred Yeltsin. I once spoke to a Belgian woman who had lived in Moskou for a while and she told me: the Russians like Yeltsin because he is a drunk like themselves.
I am afraid a lot of the rednecks in the Midwest like Bush because he ressembles them a lot more than John Kerry.

I just hope that Kerry peaks at the right moment and can defeat Bush, even if it's only with 500 votes.

The only good thing about Bush being re-elected, is that we can be sure it's gonna be his last term for a while.

Volcana
Sep 24th, 2004, 12:06 PM
I just hope that Kerry peaks at the right moment and can defeat Bush, even if it's only with 500 votes.Yeah, but virtually every district that uses Diebold voting machines is going to go for Bush, since theit easy to tamper with, and have no paper trail. This is going to be the easiest election to steal in history. and of course, the guy who OWNS Diebold has sworn to deliver the election to Bush.The only good thing about Bush being re-elected, is that we can be sure it's gonna be his last term for a while.Yeah, but Bush is such a good recruiting tool for bin Laden, my biggest fear is another Al-Qaeda attack on the US mainland right before the election. I hadn't heard it put this way before, but Bush made bin Laden a prophet. bin Laden actually prophesized that the US would invade and occupy an Arab country. Of course, all it takes to kow that are a couple of good spies, or the right kind of internet research into neo-con plans. But intenet access isn't universal. and the idea that we're being attacked by somebody who's followers class him with Mohammed and Jesus Christ is just plain scary.

But having said all that, it's still nice to see that REAL conservatives are finally waking up to the fact that Bush isn't one of them.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Sep 24th, 2004, 12:42 PM
Volcana, I hear you and as a European I can say that George W. stands for every negative trait Europeans allocate to the USA (and we do acknowledge its good traits), plus John Kerry is definitely the kind of president we would like the USA to have.
Unfortunately, I think this is a bit like how the West perceived Gorbatsjov at the time: we liked him a lot but the Russians themselves preferred Yeltsin. I once spoke to a Belgian woman who had lived in Moskou for a while and she told me: the Russians like Yeltsin because he is a drunk like themselves.
I am afraid a lot of the rednecks in the Midwest like Bush because he ressembles them a lot more than John Kerry.

I just hope that Kerry peaks at the right moment and can defeat Bush, even if it's only with 500 votes.

The only good thing about Bush being re-elected, is that we can be sure it's gonna be his last term for a while.
It's funny how folks think Bush identifies with them.....it's sad to say, but it is true.

In reality, Bush is just as much of a rich patrician as Kerry ever will be, but folks don't see that.

flyingmachine
Sep 24th, 2004, 03:33 PM
I'm glad that there are Americans such as Volcana and VSFan1 still manage to know the realities of America affecting the rest of the world in a negative manner as the result of Bush. :worship: However I just feel there are too many Americans who are very ignorant will vote for Bush because he his gun ho macho atitude and they feel he one of them when in reality he is anything but a common man. I hope Bush will lost because if he's elected again it's bad news for everyone except bin Laden. :rolleyes:

tfannis
Sep 24th, 2004, 05:37 PM
I'm glad that there are Americans such as Volcana and VSFan1 still manage to know the realities of America affecting the rest of the world in a negative manner as the result of Bush. :worship: However I just feel there are too many Americans who are very ignorant will vote for Bush because he his gun ho macho atitude and they feel he one of them when in reality he is anything but a common man. I hope Bush will lost because if he's elected again it's bad news for everyone except bin Laden. :rolleyes:
If only the whole world could vote...

http://www.betavote.com/

martirogi
Sep 24th, 2004, 08:45 PM
Kerry is the puppet. He has no stand on any issue and wavers with whatever he thinks the public agrees with. I would take a person who can take a stand and knows themselves over some sniviling idiot who tries to agree with the majority and can't think on his own.

Celeste
Sep 25th, 2004, 05:13 PM
I find it hilarious how non-Americans come in here and feel they know better than tax-paying U.S. citizens who should lead the U.S. and even deign to call them "ignorant" for not selecting their choice. And you call Americans arrogant?

Lady
Sep 25th, 2004, 06:33 PM
Unfortunately, I think this is a bit like how the West perceived Gorbatsjov at the time: we liked him a lot but the Russians themselves preferred Yeltsin. I once spoke to a Belgian woman who had lived in Moskou for a while and she told me: the Russians like Yeltsin because he is a drunk like themselves.


That's so not true!! :rolleyes: I'm Russian, and I'm so far from being a drunker, just like many our relatives!
I'm sure Putin is a lot more popular then Yeltsin eve was, and Russian people are proud of him.

I spoke to a person who lives in Belgium, and he said all Belgians are lazy, arrogant people, who care only about themselves. I found it hard to believe him (and I still don't).

Circe
Sep 25th, 2004, 06:55 PM
Kerry is the puppet. He has no stand on any issue and wavers with whatever he thinks the public agrees with. I would take a person who can take a stand and knows themselves over some sniviling idiot who tries to agree with the majority and can't think on his own.
what you say about kerry may well be true. he is, to put it in short, a politician.

however,
the real tragedy of our national politics may not even be the fact that the alternative is a religious lunatic who thinks he has a "divine sanction" to be a religious lunatic in the president's office. it is that i'll be in the minority for preferring the politician.

tobe
Sep 25th, 2004, 08:00 PM
I find it hilarious how non-Americans come in here and feel they know better than tax-paying U.S. citizens who should lead the U.S. and even deign to call them "ignorant" for not selecting their choice. And you call Americans arrogant?
It is sad, but i think we in Europe are better informed about what's going on in America and US politics especially about the war than a lot of Americans....

martirogi
Sep 25th, 2004, 08:06 PM
how do europeans know more about american politics and the war again :scratch:

tobe
Sep 25th, 2004, 08:18 PM
how do europeans know more about american politics and the war again :scratch:
not KNOW but I think better INFORMED cos we have not thast kind of censorship, like we see pictures of the war that completely disagree with what the President tells his nation et. it is hard to describe, but there must be some reason that almost no one outside the US would vote for Georgie-boy!

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Sep 25th, 2004, 09:21 PM
Kerry is the puppet. He has no stand on any issue and wavers with whatever he thinks the public agrees with. I would take a person who can take a stand and knows themselves over some sniviling idiot who tries to agree with the majority and can't think on his own.
You believe this?

Then detail it instead of driveling off a bunch of talking points that essentially comes down to gossiping unless you PROVE it.

antonella
Sep 25th, 2004, 09:52 PM
Volcana, I hear you and as a European I can say that George W. stands for every negative trait Europeans allocate to the USA

Ahh.. the 'oh-so sophisticated and MORAL Europeans'.. it's kinda hard taking people such as you seriously considering for the last hundred years you have given the World such magnificent contributions such as World War One, World War Two, Fascism. Stalinism, Falangism, Nihilism. the Gulag, the Holocaust, the Kaiser, Adolph Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, Milosivic, Ceascescu, not to mention five hundred years of colonialism, imperialism and genocide.. need I go on?? If you really think that we really GIVE A SHIT for what you think then you are even stupider that you look. Do yourselves and the World a favor? stop projecting your silly guilt and bad conscience on other nations such as the US and Israel and maybe we can help make the World a better (and less hypocritical?) place.

... and by the way ALL polititians are puppets and tools, only fools, Europeans and WTAWORLD members think otherwise.

GBFH
Sep 25th, 2004, 10:38 PM
Ahh.. the 'oh-so sophisticated and MORAL Europeans'.. it's kinda hard taking people such as you seriously considering for the last hundred years you have given the World such magnificent contributions such as World War One, World War Two, Fascism. Stalinism, Falangism, Nihilism. the Gulag, the Holocaust, the Kaiser, Adolph Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, Milosivic, Ceascescu, not to mention five hundred years of colonialism, imperialism and genocide.. need I go on?? If you really think that we really GIVE A SHIT for what you think then you are even stupider that you look. Do yourselves and the World a favor? stop projecting your silly guilt and bad conscience on other nations such as the US and Israel and maybe we can help make the World a better (and less hypocritical?) place.

... and by the way ALL polititians are puppets and tools, only fools, Europeans and WTAWORLD members think otherwise.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Fingon
Sep 26th, 2004, 12:49 AM
Ahh.. the 'oh-so sophisticated and MORAL Europeans'.. it's kinda hard taking people such as you seriously considering for the last hundred years you have given the World such magnificent contributions such as World War One, World War Two, Fascism. Stalinism, Falangism, Nihilism. the Gulag, the Holocaust, the Kaiser, Adolph Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, Milosivic, Ceascescu, not to mention five hundred years of colonialism, imperialism and genocide.. need I go on?? If you really think that we really GIVE A SHIT for what you think then you are even stupider that you look. Do yourselves and the World a favor? stop projecting your silly guilt and bad conscience on other nations such as the US and Israel and maybe we can help make the World a better (and less hypocritical?) place.

... and by the way ALL polititians are puppets and tools, only fools, Europeans and WTAWORLD members think otherwise.
:clap:

jbone_0307
Sep 26th, 2004, 12:50 AM
George Bush is a fool, I wish Condo and Colin would leave him the hell alone. All he can say about Kerry is "He voted for the 87 billion after......... and flip flop. President Bush has done basically nothing and in his speeches, he acts as if he has no control over what is going in the government. He talks about health care and education improvements, the same thing he did in his 2000 election and now he is talking again about it like its a new subject. He says that he will improve it, hell you had 4 years to do so, but his agenda was to "free Iraq" and get rid of Osama. He has just about ruined foreign affairs with other countries, and if I hear him say terrorism again, I swear. I just dont see anyone in their right mind would vote for him, even if it does mean that Kerry is in office. The war in Iraq makes us more prone to terrorist attacks because its pissing those people off over there. You cant just go into a country and force democracy, unless they want it.

spartanfan
Sep 26th, 2004, 12:56 AM
Kerry is the puppet. He has no stand on any issue and wavers with whatever he thinks the public agrees with. I would take a person who can take a stand and knows themselves over some sniviling idiot who tries to agree with the majority and can't think on his own.

And because the idiot president has never change his so called mind on any issue. Or has everyone forgotten that George W. OPPOSED the creation of the Department of Homeland Sesurity and NOW talks about it like it was his own idea. Or how about how George refused to testify before the 9/11 commission or refused to let his national security advisor Condi Rice testify before the commission, siting some executive privilidge. Yet when the public heat got turned up just enought ALL their ASSES were testify. But of course the right winged zealots don't want to remember things like these, because that then makes then wrong and hypocrites.:fiery:

Fingon
Sep 26th, 2004, 12:58 AM
Ahh.. the 'oh-so sophisticated and MORAL Europeans'.. it's kinda hard taking people such as you seriously considering for the last hundred years you have given the World such magnificent contributions such as World War One, World War Two, Fascism. Stalinism, Falangism, Nihilism. the Gulag, the Holocaust, the Kaiser, Adolph Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, Milosivic, Ceascescu, not to mention five hundred years of colonialism, imperialism and genocide.. need I go on?? If you really think that we really GIVE A SHIT for what you think then you are even stupider that you look. Do yourselves and the World a favor? stop projecting your silly guilt and bad conscience on other nations such as the US and Israel and maybe we can help make the World a better (and less hypocritical?) place.

... and by the way ALL polititians are puppets and tools, only fools, Europeans and WTAWORLD members think otherwise.
don't you also find it interesting how some people say Europeans in such a generic way, like all europeans are the same?

Interesting that those that are oppose the war, Bush, capitalism whatever call themselves "european" leaving the rest out, like you are not a proper european if you are not leftish.

They forget that Europe is not ONLY Belgium, France and Germany, there are other countries, notably the United Kindom that happens to be third or fourth in population within the European Union, and economically and military well above the rest except for France and Russia.

And you have Italy that supports the war, Poland, and other eastern European countries.

of course, their goverments support the war meaning that not necessarily all people in those countries do, but at the same time, the fact that the french or belgian goverments are against the war doesn't mean that ALL Belgians and French are.

I've seen that "intellectual" technique before, they paint themselves as educated and sophisticated, and then they invite you to join the club, they say "you are european, sophisticated and intelligent like me" so you have to think like them to be "respected".

Finally (and this is the end of my rants), I find it atonishing how people that call themselves intelligent can have such extreme positions. I did agree with the war, I did agree with the need to out Saddam, I agreed with the war in Afghanistan, etc. but, that DOESN"T MEAN that I agree with everything Bush says or does, I am able to analyze everything and decide what's wrong and what's right, I don't need a take everything or nothing approach, like it seems to be the case of most posters here.

I am sure if Kerry said the Earth is flat, they would agree, and if Bush said that water is wet they would disagree.

jbone_0307
Sep 26th, 2004, 01:25 AM
And dont even get me started on John Ashcroft, his ass got beat by a dead man in the Missouri Governor election. Luckily Mrs. Carnaham's served the 4 year term of her deceased husband.

Hulet
Sep 26th, 2004, 02:48 AM
Here is my rant (Hey, everyone is allowed to have one):
*Related to the article, the author seem to think that if Kerry were the US president now, he wouldn't have invaded Iraq. I strongly disagree. Kerry might say different now, but, on a number of occasions before, he said he would have invaded Iraq "knowing what he knows now". The only problem Kerry seem have with this current invasion is it doesn't involve enough international troops to kerry :) some of the burden off the American forces. In fact, most of Kerry's foreign policy is not that different in relation to Bush. Yes, I have a great respect to Kerry (mainly because he didn't hide in a bush to escape the Vietnam draft and because he was vocally and courageously protested against the atrocities committed there) but I don't think he will be a better US president to the rest of the world - meaning he will be as militaristically aggressive as Bush and might invade another country to show that he is not really soft/sensitive as the Republicans claimed he would be. Actually, I think the world is much better off with Bush than Kerry, because atleast Bush has learned the costs of war (to his political fortune) and might think twice about it before he orders another one that might kill thousands of civilians (not that he cares about the civilians).

*Related to the question about who does know better about world politics - the Americans or the Europeans. I don't know. All I can say is, from what I can see, hear and read, I have come to the conclusion that the average American is pretty naive about their own foreign policy. It seems to me the only time they get interested about a country is when their soldiers march to "free" it. They are not interested to search for more diverse news sources than their local TVs 6:00 PM newscast. They view the world politics through the very limited and simplistic eyeglasses of "Us good, our enemies evil". Most don't question the motives of their government - its inconsistent, hypocritical foreign policies; its propaganda; etc. But, in all that respect, they are not different than most of the population in this world. All the focus is on them because they have the most powerful government on the world.

*On the issue of the Europeans going through a history of dictatorship, genocide, Stalinism, socialism, war, colonialism, etc: I think this horrible history is quite beneficial to the present day Europeans because it gives them a healthy dosage of skeptism to what their governments claim. They might not be as naive as others, who didn't go through such a history, to believe on face value what their current leaders preach since they have been tricked and lead into desruction before in the name of country, riech, communist utopia, freedom, democracy, security, religion, culture, value, etc.

Ted of Teds Tennis
Sep 26th, 2004, 03:03 AM
And dont even get me started on Tom Ridge, his ass got beat by a dead man in the Missouri Governor election. Luckily Mrs. Carnaham's served the 4 year term of her deceased husband.

I should hope Tom Ridge wasn't elected Governor of Missouri, seeing as he was the serving Governor in Pennsylvania.

And yet the Kerry supporters will claim they're the ones who are so well-informed.

(BTW: I'm voting for Badnarik in November, not Kerry or Bush.)

martirogi
Sep 26th, 2004, 03:08 AM
everyone is entitled to their own opinions, i can understand y europeans wouldn't like bush- he is the cause for american agression in the world, but as an american i support the reasoning for his actions. concerning the election, id be willing to vote for someone else, but the quality i despise most is a person who is fake and i think thats what john kerry is, he's not really saying what HE thinks

Shane54
Sep 26th, 2004, 03:08 AM
Kerry is the puppet. He has no stand on any issue and wavers with whatever he thinks the public agrees with. I would take a person who can take a stand and knows themselves over some sniviling idiot who tries to agree with the majority and can't think on his own.
Awesome post! As hated as Bush is supposedly, it is really says alot of Kerry that he is still behind in the polls.

And to all other posters, yes I am gay. Whether two "KAWEEENS" get married is really not that important to me.

Rtael
Sep 26th, 2004, 03:12 AM
... and by the way ALL polititians are puppets and tools, only fools, Europeans and WTAWORLD members think otherwise.

Maybe so, but only an idiot would simply lie down and accept things as they are now.

Rtael
Sep 26th, 2004, 03:14 AM
Awesome post! As hated as Bush is supposedly, it is really says alot of Kerry that he is still behind in the polls.

And to all other posters, yes I am gay. Whether two "KAWEEENS" get married is really not that important to me.
You do realize homosexual acts are illegal in Louisiana right? Vote for Bush and you can make it like that everywhere! :wavey:

Aren't you clever?

backhanddtl4
Sep 26th, 2004, 04:56 AM
Kerry is the puppet. He has no stand on any issue and wavers with whatever he thinks the public agrees with. I would take a person who can take a stand and knows themselves over some sniviling idiot who tries to agree with the majority and can't think on his own.


He has a stand on every issue....You're just a sick swayed christian conservative

martirogi
Sep 26th, 2004, 05:55 AM
o but im not, can you enlighten me to his stand on any issue, o nope theres no original ideas r there, shoot

tobe
Sep 26th, 2004, 07:42 AM
Let's face it, since Georgie-puppet "Double you" has been president, the world didn't get safer but terror grew rapidly, Iraq is not liberated but there is just chaos, and every day not only inhabitants but also US soldiers die!
There are terrorist attacks everywhere (Europe, Asia etc.) and the hatred against the US grows and grows! Not even mentioning the ignorance about global warming, saving nature, abortion, homsexuals etc.....Great result in only 4 years :worship:

flyingmachine
Sep 26th, 2004, 08:52 AM
Here is my rant (Hey, everyone is allowed to have one):
*Related to the article, the author seem to think that if Kerry were the US president now, he wouldn't have invaded Iraq. I strongly disagree. Kerry might say different now, but, on a number of occasions before, he said he would have invaded Iraq "knowing what he knows now". The only problem Kerry seem have with this current invasion is it doesn't involve enough international troops to kerry :) some of the burden off the American forces. In fact, most of Kerry's foreign policy is not that different in relation to Bush. Yes, I have a great respect to Kerry (mainly because he didn't hide in a bush to escape the Vietnam draft and because he was vocally and courageously protested against the atrocities committed there) but I don't think he will be a better US president to the rest of the world

I don't think the foreign policy will be getting any better under Kelly but at least it will not getting worst unlike Bush. :rolleyes:

Actually, I think the world is much better off with Bush than Kerry, because atleast Bush has learned the costs of war (to his political fortune) and might think twice about it before he orders another one that might kill thousands of civilians (not that he cares about the civilians).

Sorry I don't think he is the person will ever change his policy. He's too fanatic to learn the cost of war. Also he's too interested saving his face to do such a thing such saying sorry etc.

*Related to the question about who does know better about world politics - the Americans or the Europeans. I don't know. All I can say is, from what I can see, hear and read, I have come to the conclusion that the average American is pretty naive about their own foreign policy. It seems to me the only time they get interested about a country is when their soldiers march to "free" it. They are not interested to search for more diverse news sources than their local TVs 6:00 PM newscast. They view the world politics through the very limited and simplistic eyeglasses of "Us good, our enemies evil". Most don't question the motives of their government - its inconsistent, hypocritical foreign policies; its propaganda; etc. But, in all that respect, they are not different than most of the population in this world. All the focus is on them because they have the most powerful government on the world.

Politians wise both sides are very much the same, some good some bad but the Europeans is a lot more inform that's all. This is why European politians have to very be carefully because they know they can't fool their people anymore. However it does not make them any better than the American ones but just a different method.
You have to know that igranonce can kill especially When the US is the most powerful country at the moment. The more power you have the have responbility you will have. An American voter has more power than any other voter around the world. (I know it's sad but this is the fact.) So use it wisely. Otherwise igranonce will hurt you back.

*On the issue of the Europeans going through a history of dictatorship, genocide, Stalinism, socialism, war, colonialism, etc: I think this horrible history is quite beneficial to the present day Europeans because it gives them a healthy dosage of skeptism to what their governments claim. They might not be as naive as others, who didn't go through such a history, to believe on face value what their current leaders preach since they have been tricked and lead into desruction before in the name of country, riech, communist utopia, freedom, democracy, security, religion, culture, value, etc.
I don't know about that but it seems American history don't seem to have such horrible things happened to them. However this is White American History because there are lots of horrible thing happened to Afro Americans and American Indians yet I bet lots white Americans know very little about it a part from Martin Luthur King and the civil rights.
However to honestly I don't want Americans to have all these horrible stuff happening to them. You can say a healthy dose of skeptism forwords the goverment but it also create a lot hate as well.

flyingmachine
Sep 26th, 2004, 08:55 AM
You do realize homosexual acts are illegal in Louisiana right? Vote for Bush and you can make it like that everywhere! :wavey:

Aren't you clever?
Sounds like they truely going BACKWORDS.

tfannis
Sep 26th, 2004, 11:25 AM
Let's face it, since Georgie-puppet "Double you" has been president, the world didn't get safer but terror grew rapidly, Iraq is not liberated but there is just chaos, and every day not only inhabitants but also US soldiers die!
There are terrorist attacks everywhere (Europe, Asia etc.) and the hatred against the US grows and grows! Not even mentioning the ignorance about global warming, saving nature, abortion, homsexuals etc.....Great result in only 4 years :worship:That sums it up :worship:

The reason why we, 'Europeans', care about these elections, is because its outcome affects us too. It affects the whole world. And the world wouldn't re-elect Bush. Bush is a self-declared war-president and is a danger, a mayor danger to the world, to Europeans, Asians, Africans, Australians, Americans. His war on terror caused more terrorism, more anti-Americanism, more dead, more chaos and more fear.

As for the history of Europe...because shitty things happened here before, we're not entitled to have an opinion? Okaaay :rolleyes: Well excuse me for having one, I'm not going back on it ;) Make sure not one inhabitant of the south of the US talks about human rights (the slaves!), make sure no Indian read what you write about how the US should be governed (their country!). And as for some of you not caring what we think...off course, I didn't expect anything else. Yet, we're allowed to throw our considerations on this board, we got nothing to lose right :)

I'm concerned and I'm not alone....in Brussels and in Rome, on every corner of the street:

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Sep 26th, 2004, 02:18 PM
Awesome post! As hated as Bush is supposedly, it is really says alot of Kerry that he is still behind in the polls.

And to all other posters, yes I am gay. Whether two "KAWEEENS" get married is really not that important to me.
LOL - that's like a black man saying back in the 50's, "Yes, I'm black but whether or not schools get equal funding doesn't matter to me."

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Sep 26th, 2004, 02:19 PM
Awesome post! As hated as Bush is supposedly, it is really says alot of Kerry that he is still behind in the polls.

And to all other posters, yes I am gay. Whether two "KAWEEENS" get married is really not that important to me.
Oh, and do you also support GWB's stance againt ENDA - the employment non-discrimination act?

He won't support it because he doesn't believe in eqaulity in the workforce for GLBT people.

You are such a hypocrite.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Sep 26th, 2004, 02:21 PM
o but im not, can you enlighten me to his stand on any issue, o nope theres no original ideas r there, shoot
Umm, you continue to speak as if you know stuff about Kerry, that he is a "flip-flopper" but you have done nothing to prove it.

Everyone makes that claim but when I ask them to prove, they can't.

Kiwi_Boy
Sep 26th, 2004, 08:23 PM
Both are puppets. Dont be silly. Its part and parcel of being a president or a prime minister. You are the figurehead for your party, for your supporters and your iron fists. Dont blame Bush (A republican on a string), dont blame Kerry(A democrat on a string), blame the job discripton.
The only non puppet presidents are autocrats, aka Vladimir Putin who has a government on a string.

Grachka
Sep 26th, 2004, 09:09 PM
Ahh.. the 'oh-so sophisticated and MORAL Europeans'.. it's kinda hard taking people such as you seriously considering for the last hundred years you have given the World such magnificent contributions such as World War One, World War Two, Fascism. Stalinism, Falangism, Nihilism. the Gulag, the Holocaust, the Kaiser, Adolph Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, Milosivic, Ceascescu, not to mention five hundred years of colonialism, imperialism and genocide.. need I go on?? If you really think that we really GIVE A SHIT for what you think then you are even stupider that you look. Do yourselves and the World a favor? stop projecting your silly guilt and bad conscience on other nations such as the US and Israel and maybe we can help make the World a better (and less hypocritical?) place.

... and by the way ALL polititians are puppets and tools, only fools, Europeans and WTAWORLD members think otherwise.

I'm sorry to be harsh, but this is the most ridiculous post I have ever seen. How you would attempt to justify generalising (horribly) all Europeans as supporters of Stalinism and Nazism is beyond me, considering they both rose to power either by force or by manipulating the system in their respective countries. The vast majority of Russians (who are not all drunks btw) hated Stalin and thats why they tore down all the monuments to him in St.Petersburg after his death. The implication that Europe as a continent (as well as Russia) revered him as some sort of cultural export is laughable. Not only that, but Mussolini was shot in the street by his own people, and the remains of the far right in Germany are an embarrassment to the majority of Germans. So your blatant generalisations about Europe today are simply a load of crap (exhales).

As for Bush, well, I hope he doesn't get elected, and as a European, I think thats good ;) I think my opinion is valid, as he seems to think he can do whatever he wants, anywhere he wants, and that includes here.

JustineTime
Sep 26th, 2004, 11:03 PM
It is the height of idiocy to blame terrorism on the United States, or George Bush, for that matter.

How did we facilitate the massacre is Beslan, pray tell? The Philippines? Malayasia? The genocide in the Sudan? Bali? Shall I continue?

Russia is now on board with the "preemptive strike" mentality. Why? Because they just had their own 9/11. Welcome to the party, boys! :tears:

Gen 16:11-12 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

I know, most of you don't believe in the Bible. Isn't it amazing how that fact has zero impact on its truth? :shrug:

Shane54
Sep 26th, 2004, 11:21 PM
Oh, and do you also support GWB's stance againt ENDA - the employment non-discrimination act?

He won't support it because he doesn't believe in eqaulity in the workforce for GLBT people.

You are such a hypocrite.
Thank you! I enjoy getting a rile out of people:wavey:

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:44 PM
Thank you! I enjoy getting a rile out of people:wavey:
As suspected, you have no spine so instead of trying to help me understand your logic, you come up with a futile response.

Have fun disrespecting yourself! Glad I'm not you.

tobe
Sep 27th, 2004, 02:11 PM
I'm sorry to be harsh, but this is the most ridiculous post I have ever seen. How you would attempt to justify generalising (horribly) all Europeans as supporters of Stalinism and Nazism is beyond me, considering they both rose to power either by force or by manipulating the system in their respective countries. The vast majority of Russians (who are not all drunks btw) hated Stalin and thats why they tore down all the monuments to him in St.Petersburg after his death. The implication that Europe as a continent (as well as Russia) revered him as some sort of cultural export is laughable. Not only that, but Mussolini was shot in the street by his own people, and the remains of the far right in Germany are an embarrassment to the majority of Germans. So your blatant generalisations about Europe today are simply a load of crap (exhales).

As for Bush, well, I hope he doesn't get elected, and as a European, I think thats good ;) I think my opinion is valid, as he seems to think he can do whatever he wants, anywhere he wants, and that includes here.

REALLY WEELL SAID AND SO TRUE!!!!