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View Full Version : Venus - Isn't this a little strange?


Volcana
Sep 18th, 2004, 12:21 AM
Venus Williams' best results in 2004 have been on clay. winning Charleston and Warsaw. Okay, so it's a Tier I and a Tier II, but Venus Williams doing best on clay!?!? Wasn't this suppposed to be her worst surface?

kabuki
Sep 18th, 2004, 12:26 AM
I still think clay is Venus' worst surface. She has slumped incredibly since the spring. Confidence is so important, and unfortunately, Venus has none right now on the court. I look for her to bounce back this fall. (And hopefully work on that forehand and second serve)

Crazy_Fool
Sep 18th, 2004, 12:26 AM
Venus Williams' best results in 2004 have been on clay. winning Charleston and Warsaw. Okay, so it's a Tier I and a Tier II, but Venus Williams doing best on clay!?!? Wasn't this suppposed to be her worst surface?
Yes, but she won those events without running into a top player. In the hard courts/grass she ran into top 10 players and at the moment, she just isn't on that level of play.

kabuki
Sep 18th, 2004, 12:41 AM
I have never known Venus not to have any confidence. You people keep over looking the fact that venus has been hurt all year and that is why she has thoes results. During the clay season she started to get her game back and got hurt again and therefore she had another set back. I am looking for Vee to have better results in '05.

Obviously speculation on my part, but the way she either pushes the ball on the forehand, or goes for way too much indicates lack of confidence IMHO.

kabuki
Sep 18th, 2004, 12:42 AM
I have never known Venus not to have any confidence. You people keep over looking the fact that venus has been hurt all year and that is why she has thoes results. During the clay season she started to get her game back and got hurt again and therefore she had another set back. I am looking for Vee to have better results in '05.

Oh, and "You people" is an obnoxious turn of phrase.

geojango
Sep 18th, 2004, 12:47 AM
You people

who people?

Infiniti2001
Sep 18th, 2004, 12:56 AM
I still think clay is Venus' worst surface. She has slumped incredibly since the spring. Confidence is so important, and unfortunately, Venus has none right now on the court. I look for her to bounce back this fall. (And hopefully work on that forehand and second serve)

Contrary to popular belief, Venus has a very decent record on clay--- I'll go as far as saying it's actually better that some/most of the so called clay courters currently on tour. Then again , she hasn't won Roland Garros which I guess determines a clay courter :tape:

kabuki
Sep 18th, 2004, 12:59 AM
Contrary to popular belief, Venus has a very decent record on clay--- I'll go as far as saying it's actually better that some/most of the so called clay courters currently on tour. Then again , she hasn't won Roland Garros which I guess determines a clay courter :tape:

I agree, but I still think it is her worst surface.

Rtael
Sep 18th, 2004, 12:59 AM
Venus Williams' best results in 2004 have been on clay. winning Charleston and Warsaw. Okay, so it's a Tier I and a Tier II, but Venus Williams doing best on clay!?!? Wasn't this suppposed to be her worst surface?

Very few people claim clay as Venus' worst surface. Where have you been the last couple of years that you would think that?

Volcana
Sep 18th, 2004, 01:01 AM
Yes, but she won those events without running into a top player. In the hard courts/grass she ran into top 10 players and at the moment, she just isn't on that level of play.Actually, she was eliminated in many events by worse players than she beat at Warsaw and Charleston. Raymond, Rubin, Sprem, Pierce?

Sam L
Sep 18th, 2004, 01:02 AM
Venus Williams' best results in 2004 have been on clay. winning Charleston and Warsaw. Okay, so it's a Tier I and a Tier II, but Venus Williams doing best on clay!?!? Wasn't this suppposed to be her worst surface?
Hello???? :cuckoo: Wake up and smell the coffee.

Volcana
Sep 18th, 2004, 01:02 AM
Very few people claim clay as Venus' worst surface. Where have you been the last couple of years that you would think that?Here' What would the 'great many' say was Venus' worst surface?

CJ07
Sep 18th, 2004, 01:05 AM
Clay has never been Venus's worst surface. Carpet is.
Ever since Venus became a top player in 98, she's done something significant on the dirt.

99 Rome
00 French QF
01 Hamburg
02 French F
03 Warsaw F (injured)
04 Charleston, Warsaw

so Venus can play well on clay. Actually its a great surface for her when playing well, because it brings out her defensive game. And when Venus is playing well defensively on clay she is just so impenetrable because she even more time to get balls back. It's just a bad surface for her when she's not playing well because her opponents can get more balls back too.

Rocketta
Sep 18th, 2004, 01:07 AM
Actually, she was elimianted in many events by worse players than she beat at Warsaw and Charleston. Raymond, Rubin, Sprem, Pierce?
and she beat Kuznetsova and Zvonareva...I guess they sucked two months ago when Venus beat them but now they are top players....:tape:

bandabou
Sep 18th, 2004, 01:07 AM
Itīs odd indeed....maybe she just canīt handle the pace when itīs on faster surfaces anymore?!

ZAK
Sep 18th, 2004, 01:23 AM
Itīs odd indeed....maybe she just canīt handle the pace when itīs on faster surfaces anymore?!
Or maybe she just happened to be playing well in April-May regardless of surface

Stamp Paid
Sep 18th, 2004, 01:35 AM
Because she was striking her forehand beautifully (Kim Clijsters-like, dare I say) at Warsaw, Berlin, and especially Fed Cup.

Rocketta
Sep 18th, 2004, 02:14 AM
Or maybe she just happened to be playing well in April-May regardless of surface
or/plus maybe she was finally able to play a couple of tournaments in a row without injury. ;)

VW#1
Sep 18th, 2004, 02:16 AM
Or maybe she hasn't gone longer than a month and a half stretch of time without having some kind of injury to deal with. Oh no of course not that couldn't be it. Every other player has legitimate injuries but when it's one of the Williams Sisters it's because their not dedicated :rolleyes: . If the Williams Sisters get back to the level they were out, which I think they will, it will be AMAZING to see the 180 most commentators, the people on this board, and the tennis media do.

Volcana
Sep 18th, 2004, 02:24 AM
It's just really wierd to see Venus go from Wimbledon through the US Open with winning anything.

darrinbaker00
Sep 18th, 2004, 02:25 AM
and she beat Kuznetsova and Zvonareva...I guess they sucked two months ago when Venus beat them but now they are top players....:tape:
I guess so..... :tape:

Here are Venus' lifetime records on all four surfaces, according to www.wtatour.com:

CARPET: 40-15 (.727)
CLAY: 75-17 (.815)
GRASS: 39-8 (.830)
HARD: 213-41 (.839)

I think "least successful" surface would be a better term to use than "worst" surface. What do you guys think? ;)

Hant Hant
Sep 18th, 2004, 03:30 AM
i love venus's game on clay. defensive tennis can look pretty at times.

Stamp Paid
Sep 18th, 2004, 03:54 AM
Also, Venus and Serena are both awesome on clay. No one should really beat them on clay except Kim, Justine, and Amelie (and Jennifer, for Serena, of course http://wtaworld.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif) I'm not surprised, Venus beat everyone she was supposed to during the clay season except Myskina.

Crazy_Fool
Sep 18th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Venus was not injured in any of the GS as far as i was aware

Stamp Paid
Sep 18th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Venus was not injured in any of the GS as far as i was aware
Australian Open - ankle
French Open - the other ankle
Wimbledon - wrist
Olympics - knee
US Open - ???

Crazy_Fool
Sep 18th, 2004, 02:45 PM
Australian Open - ankle
French Open - the other ankle
Wimbledon - wrist
Olympics - knee
US Open - ???
Minor injuries? I don't particularly remember them affecting her in anyway.

Stamp Paid
Sep 18th, 2004, 02:48 PM
Minor injuries? I don't particularly remember them affecting her in anyway.
They all affected her preparation for the Slam events seriously (except Australia.) She wasn't able to do what she needed to do to be successful at the slams because injury sidelined her directly before both the French and Wimbledon.

TomTennis
Sep 18th, 2004, 02:50 PM
if you look at her injuries, i reaelly dont think it is strange. She would have won berlin had she not twisted her ankle, and had she not i also think she would have easily been able to go on and win the FO. At Wimby, she had the wrist problem, and a lack of confidence by being beaten at the FO. Us Open, she was playing good, (especially in the last game) but the errors cost her the match.

Next year she will do well on ALL surfaces.!

kabuki
Sep 18th, 2004, 03:07 PM
I guess so..... :tape:

Here are Venus' lifetime records on all four surfaces, according to www.wtatour.com:

CARPET: 40-15 (.727)
CLAY: 75-17 (.815)
GRASS: 39-8 (.830)
HARD: 213-41 (.839)

I think "least successful" surface would be a better term to use than "worst" surface. What do you guys think? ;)

This is an example of statistics that are misleading. If we look at Venus' record at WTA events from 2000 (her first GS year) on, which IMHO is most applicable:

CARPET: 20-5 (.800)
CLAY: 47-10 (.825)

if we remove walkovers and retirements by Venus:

CARPET: 20-3 (.869) (2 to Maleeva and one to Dav)
CLAY: 47-8 (.854)

My point is that while statistics are quantitative in nature, they can be interpreted any number of ways.

On the qualitative side, hard core tennis fans and other players will tell you that Venus is much better on carpet than on clay.

Or, ask yourself this question: Where would the majority of top 20 players prefer to play Venus? On clay, or on carpet? With maybe the exception of Americans (Linds, Jen(?), Serena) and certain bashers (Maria, Alicia) the rest would say clay. And in fact, the five I named would not pick carpet because they think that Venus is worse on carpet, but because they themselves perform more poorly on clay, just as Venus does.

kabuki
Sep 18th, 2004, 03:13 PM
How could he surface be they worse surface and they excell on it more so than the so call clay specialist. Please help me figure this one out.

Not trying to be rude, but it is basic logic.
Venus is a better tennis player than those clay court specialists.
My point is not that those specialists are better on clay than Venus.
My point is that Venus performs least well on clay.
So, you can infer that Venus' worst surface tennis is still better than most players' best surface tennis.
Get it?

We're all fans here. Don't let emotion and defensiveness stop you from looking critically at our favorites.

kabuki
Sep 18th, 2004, 03:14 PM
Yes, it's speculation on your part.

Speculation is what this board is all about> :)

*Karen*
Sep 18th, 2004, 03:19 PM
Maybe she was just having a good week. I don't think her clay record looks worse than her other surfaces.

tennisIlove09
Sep 18th, 2004, 04:23 PM
maybe a little odd...but clay is also the surface that's the easiest on the body ;)

kabuki
Sep 18th, 2004, 11:39 PM
maybe a little odd...but clay is also the surface that's the easiest on the body ;)

Definitely less shock on the joints versus hard courts, but the long points and sliding can be murder. I've never played on grass, but I will speculate that it is equally forgiving.

heartBREAKeRS
Sep 19th, 2004, 02:09 AM
and she beat Kuznetsova and Zvonareva...I guess they sucked two months ago when Venus beat them but now they are top players....:tape:
Better be carfule what U say honey:kiss: :o .. OR:fiery: .. She just neeeed time to recover from her injuri.. be well VENUS:kiss:

kabuki
Sep 19th, 2004, 02:19 PM
Better be carfule what U say honey:kiss: :o .. OR:fiery: .. She just neeeed time to recover from her injuri.. be well VENUS:kiss:

I'd watch out for Venus this fall...

Jaime Bahena
Sep 22nd, 2004, 03:07 PM
I'd watch out for Venus this fall...

Yeah, I'm so sure that everyone's so afraid of her. Please!!!!!!

DA FOREHAND
Sep 22nd, 2004, 03:19 PM
Minor injuries? I don't particularly remember them affecting her in anyway.
Cause you're a fucktard!!...ugh I mean Fool

kabuki
Sep 29th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Oh, and just for general edification, here is my other interaction with boggs570/law and order.

Experimentee
Sep 29th, 2004, 04:52 PM
Maybe Venus hasnt been as successful on carpet because most of the tournaments are after the US Open and she doesnt care as much about them. I dont think its actually worse for her game than any other surface. I'd still say clay was her worst, but not by much.