PDA

View Full Version : Greatest Tennis Players Ever


LADIEZ CHAMPION
Sep 17th, 2004, 07:04 AM
Athletes in all sports are getting better all the time, measurably in some, apparently in others. Obviously exceptional tennis players abound today. I also feel that the greats in one era would be greats if transposed to another. Big Bill Tilden and Helen Wills, benefitting from startling improvements in equipment, coaching and training methods, immersed in a highly professional environment, would be champions today. But they would find themselves surrounded by a deeper, more imposing cast, hitting the ball harder, battling for fantastic financial awards, ever monitored and classified by the cold hearted computer.

Greatest Ever List

1880s Renshaw / Sears------- Bingley Hillyard
1890s R. Doherty / Wrenn------------- Dod / Atkinson
1900s L. Doherty / Larned ---------- Douglass Chambers
1910s Wilding---------------- Douglass Chambers / Mallory
1920s Tilden-------------Lenglen
1930s Budge------------ Wills Moody
1940s Kramer----------- Brough
1950s Gonzales -------- Connolly
1960s Rosewall------------ Court
1970s Borg------------- Evert
1980s Lendl ------------ Navratilova
1990s Sampras---------- Seles until she was stabbed

2000s --- ? ----------------- ?------

Tennis was not so much an international sport before the 1920s and 1930s (really became an international sport in 1925). Therefore, it is harder to have a best player of the sport for those earlier years -- except you have to go with Wilding in the 1910s.

There are some very good players --- Cochet, Lacoste, Perry, Vines, Crawford, Hoad, Laver, Newcombe, Connors, McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Wilander and Agassi among the men and Jacobs, Marble, du Pont, Hart, Fry, Hard, Gibson, Bueno, King, Goolagong, Graf, Hingis, among the women --- who just were not quite good enough to be considered the best players of their decades.

So who among today's tennis players for both the men's and women's will most likely end up the best among the best for the 2000 decade? :D :angel:

azmad_88
Sep 17th, 2004, 07:06 AM
we are only half way through this decade
u cant decide yet..
this is not the time

LADIEZ CHAMPION
Sep 17th, 2004, 07:07 AM
we are only half way through this decade
u cant decide yet..
this is not the time

just a projection for the first half of the 2000 decade.. :D :angel:

MrSerenaWilliams
Sep 17th, 2004, 07:21 AM
I've only been a fan for like 10 years so.....in that amout of time, here are the greatest (top 5) players I remember (in NO particular order):

WTA TOUR:
Martina Navratilova
Monica Seles
Steffi Graf
Serena Williams
Martina Hingis

ATP TOUR:
Pete Sampras
Roger Federer
Jim Courier
Andre Agassi
Ivan Lendl

among this decade...I would UNQUESTIONALBLY say:

SERENA WILLIAMS AND ROGER FEDERER

Hate if you must, but...."the Serena Slam", not even Hingis could do that...hell not even Seles could! It takes something special to be able to win four major in a row! In fact, no other active player has a career Grand Slam...again something not even Hingis or Seles could do! When Justine can do that...against a completely competitive and active field (2002-2003 was a GREAT strectch of tennis...[Dokic was top 10!] and everyone at the top was competing at a high level...Serena just beat everyone else) then, maybe she can possibly tie Serena as the greatest of this decade. Sharpova fans...sorry, Masha is good...great even..she might even be #1 eventually, but Serena's been to at least the quarterfinals of the last 15 Grand Slams that she has competed in...Masha couldn't even do it for four...yet. Everyone else....get real! Venus is the only clear runner-up to Serena, but since Serena eclipsed her sister so greatly...there really is nothing futher to say!

Roger is AMAZING! He makes tennis look so freaking easy, I almost wanna quit. He will whip top 5 players and not even break a sweat. In the ATP, a balanced field has been what the tour has boased about, but now, although the field is balanced, one player stands above the rest. Yeah he has off days (he should have won in Athens), but who doesn't? At least he shows up where and when he needs to. Three Grand Slam titles in one year is something that not even Sampras could do, and he's the God of Tennis! In one year, Federer has gone from no grand slam titles and being the, "Next Best Thing", to four Grand Slam Titles (dropping only ONE set en route) and being the "Greatest Thing Ever!" He has secured the year-end ranking with over two months of competitive tennis left! No one has done that before! He is awesome and by far the best of this decade. Roddick has a great serve and lots of emotions, but in a pinch, I wouldn't bet my mom's heart surgery money on Roddick over Federer! Federer is the best of the 2000 decade...along with Serena Williams!

Bamafan717
Sep 17th, 2004, 07:28 AM
It is BULLSHIT is you think Graf was not the best player of the 80's or the 90's!!!!!!! Get Real!

Great post mrserenawilliams. I agree with everything you say ;)

Stamp Paid
Sep 17th, 2004, 07:29 AM
Serena Williams, if she can remain consistent and healthy, should really be the greatest player of this decade.

Williams Rulez
Sep 17th, 2004, 07:45 AM
i agree with mrserenawilliams... great post! :)

LDVTennis
Sep 17th, 2004, 07:46 AM
How many Wimbledon trophies did Sampras raise?
How many Wimbledon trophies did Seles raise?

It is a commonly accepted principle among tennis pundits that to be considered the greatest ever the player must have won each grand slam at least once in their career. Sampras never won the French. That's the only gap in his list of accomplishments. However, because he won Wimbledon a number of times and the most grand slam tournaments of any male player, his career still makes the best claim of all former players to be the greatest ever.

The same would not have been true if he had won the French Open a number of times, but never Wimbledon. Traditionally, Wimbledon has been regarded as the higher achievement. Rarely do second tier players win at Wimbledon because it simply demands to much from its champions both in terms of shot-making ability and athletic skill.

Historically, Wimbledon has also been the true arbiter of greatness. If you look at all the legends in the sport, you will see that all of them have not only won Wimbledon once, but often three times or more. The surface annoints legends. And, so it is that the best players have often sought legendary status at Wimbledon by stringing together three or more wins over a decade or more.

Seles never won at Wimbledon. In the early 90's, she won the other major tournaments at least twice, but never Wimbledon. That is a serious gap in her record during those years; it seriously calls into question any claim to greatnesss based only on that three year window of opportunity. If she had won Wimbledon in '91 and/or '92 and never played again after the stabbing, she would have had an outstanding claim to be considered the greatest ever. If she had won Wimbledon, her claim to greatness wouuld have been based on having completed a calendar year grand slam, the Wimbledon win(s), and victories at 8 or 9 of the 9 grand slams she played from '91 to '93. But, she never won Wimbledon and not having won Wimbledon calls into question the greatness of her game at a time when she was supposedly dominating. It should go without saying that you cannot dominate a decade, let alone two or three years, without having registered a single Wimbledon win.

MrSerenaWilliams
Sep 17th, 2004, 08:12 AM
I agree LDVTennis! Great Post!

bandabou
Sep 17th, 2004, 08:13 AM
90´s Sampras and Graf...enough with this woulda already. The stats are there and they say that steffi won more. End of discussion.

current generation: Federer and Serena....their records say it all and nobody else of their current generation comes close.

Mr_Molik
Sep 17th, 2004, 08:15 AM
:haha: u really dont like steffi do u :retard: :smash:
get over it steffi is the best :cool:

skanky~skanketta
Sep 17th, 2004, 08:17 AM
for me, the best two players EVER are Andre Agassi and Martina Navratilova.

LADIEZ CHAMPION
Sep 17th, 2004, 08:24 AM
:haha: u really dont like steffi do u :retard: :smash:
get over it steffi is the best :cool:

It reminds me of little chihuahuas barking at the heels of a Great Dane ... the Great Dane is amused for a little while and the chihuahuas just continue to bark away without realizing it is out of its league. :D :angel:

Mr_Molik
Sep 17th, 2004, 09:05 AM
It reminds me of little chihuahuas barking at the heels of a Great Dane ... the Great Dane is amused for a little while and the chihuahuas just continue to bark away without realizing it is out of its league. :D :angel:
lmao :haha: dont u love the numbers 22 and 9 :tape: arent they lovely :drool: dont u love wimbledon havent all the truly great players won it :wavey: :lick:

Mr_Molik
Sep 17th, 2004, 09:14 AM
Isn't sad that the fans of the two of the greatest female tennis players of all time have to fight like babies. Steffi and Monica respect eachother, and know eachothers place in history. Everyone knows that Monica could have won another 50 slams had she not been stabbed. She also could have won no more. Facts are, Steffi has 22 singles slams, Monica has 9. Draw your own conclusions :)

LADIEZ CHAMPION
Sep 17th, 2004, 09:21 AM
How many Wimbledon trophies did Sampras raise?
How many Wimbledon trophies did Seles raise?

It is a commonly accepted principle among tennis pundits that to be considered the greatest ever the player must have won each grand slam at least once in their career. Sampras never won the French. That's the only gap in his list of accomplishments. However, because he won Wimbledon a number of times and the most grand slam tournaments of any male player, his career still makes the best claim of all former players to be the greatest ever.

The same would not have been true if he had won the French Open a number of times, but never Wimbledon. Traditionally, Wimbledon has been regarded as the higher achievement. Rarely do second tier players win at Wimbledon because it simply demands to much from its champions both in terms of shot-making ability and athletic skill.

Historically, Wimbledon has also been the true arbiter of greatness. If you look at all the legends in the sport, you will see that all of them have not only won Wimbledon once, but often three times or more. The surface annoints legends. And, so it is that the best players have often sought legendary status at Wimbledon by stringing together three or more wins over a decade or more.

Seles never won at Wimbledon. In the early 90's, she won the other major tournaments at least twice, but never Wimbledon. That is a serious gap in her record during those years; it seriously calls into question any claim to greatnesss based only on that three year window of opportunity. If she had won Wimbledon in '91 and/or '92 and never played again after the stabbing, she would have had an outstanding claim to be considered the greatest ever. If she had won Wimbledon, her claim to greatness wouuld have been based on having completed a calendar year grand slam, the Wimbledon win(s), and victories at 8 or 9 of the 9 grand slams she played from '91 to '93. But, she never won Wimbledon and not having won Wimbledon calls into question the greatness of her game at a time when she was supposedly dominating. It should go without saying that you cannot dominate a decade, let alone two or three years, without having registered a single Wimbledon win.

Steffi Graf's First Five Wimbledon Record

1984

R16 - Durie def Graf 6-2, 3-6, 7-9

**Graf never made it to the quarters on her first Wimbledon**

1985

R16 - Shriver def Graf 6-3, 2-6, 4-6

***On her second attempt, Graf never made it to the quarters again**

1986

DID NOT PLAY **Graf OPTED to skip Wimbledon**

1987

FINAL - Navratilova def Graf 5-7, 3-6

**On her third attempt, Graf finally made it to the finals but lost to Martina Navratilova***

Monica Seles First Five Wimbledon record

1989

R16 Graf def Seles (straight sets)

**On her debut at Wimbledon, 15 year old rookie Monica Seles lost to Steffi Graf who was the top ranked and defending champion at that time.

1990

DID NOT PLAY**Seles OPTED to skip Wimbledon**

1991

Quarterfinals Garrison def Seles (three sets)

**In only her second attempt, Monica Seles made it through the quarterfinals**

1992

Graf def Seles(straight sets)

**In only her third attempt, Monica Seles made it through the FINALS before falling to Graf.


1993

DID NOT PLAY **Monica Seles was stabbed by Gunther Parche**

************************************************** ******
The TRUTH : Monica Seles and Steffi Graf almost had an identical record in their first FIVE attempts playing at Wimbledon. Of course, Seles had a better result on her second attempt since she reached the Quarterfinals.

The only MAJOR difference : Monica Seles was brutally attacked by Gunther Parche in April 1993 which forever ROBBED her the same opportunity AFFORDED to Steffi Graf to win Wimbledon when she was playing at the highest level. We all know that Monica Seles was never the same player she once was after the tragedy.

Its a complete FALLACY that Steffi Graf NEVER bit the dust at Wimbledon when she first started. Steffi was also a struggling wannabee during those first few years and was NOT even considered a grass court player at all...up until she dominated the grass in the late 80's which obviously was highly contributed to the aging and decline of a late 30's Wimbledon All Time Great Martina Navratilova.

As for the rest of the Grand Slams, Seles was better than Graf during these years ... the #1 ranking and the fact that Seles won 9 out of the 11 biggest titles during those 30 months leading up to the stabbing Seles in the back with a sharp knife. Of course, Seles was better than Graf. :angel:

Wimbledon anyone ? :D

Mr_Molik
Sep 17th, 2004, 09:55 AM
Steffi Graf's First Five Wimbledon Record

1984

R16 - Durie def Graf 6-2, 3-6, 7-9

**Graf never made it to the quarters on her first Wimbledon**

1985

R16 - Shriver def Graf 6-3, 2-6, 4-6

***On her second attempt, Graf never made it to the quarters again**

1986

DID NOT PLAY **Graf OPTED to skip Wimbledon**

1987

FINAL - Navratilova def Graf 5-7, 3-6

**On her third attempt, Graf finally made it to the finals but lost to Martina Navratilova***

Monica Seles First Five Wimbledon record

1989

R16 Graf def Seles (straight sets)

**On her debut at Wimbledon, 15 year old rookie Monica Seles lost to Steffi Graf who was the top ranked and defending champion at that time.

1990

DID NOT PLAY**Seles OPTED to skip Wimbledon**

1991

Quarterfinals Garrison def Seles (three sets)

**In only her second attempt, Monica Seles made it through the quarterfinals**

1992

Graf def Seles(straight sets)

**In only her third attempt, Monica Seles made it through the FINALS before falling to Graf.


1993

DID NOT PLAY **Monica Seles was stabbed by Gunther Parche**

************************************************** ******
The TRUTH : Monica Seles and Steffi Graf almost had an identical record in their first FIVE attempts playing at Wimbledon. Of course, Seles had a better result on her second attempt since she reached the Quarterfinals.

The only MAJOR difference : Monica Seles was brutally attacked by Gunther Parche in April 1993 which forever robbed her the same opportunity AFFORDED to Graf to win Wimbledon when she was playing at the highest level. We all know that Monica Seles was never the same player she once after the tragedy.

Its a complete fallacy that Steffi Graf NEVER bit the dust at Wimbledon when she first started. Steffi was not even considered a grass court player until she dominated in the late 80's.

As for the rest of the Grand Slams, Seles was better than Graf during these years ... the #1 ranking and the fact that Seles won 9 out of the 11 biggest titles during those 30 months leading up to the stabbing Seles in the back with a sharp knife. Of course, Seles was better than Graf. :angel:

Wimbledon anyone ? :D
:haha: :haha: :haha: that is the most ridiculous argument ive ever seen :haha: in fact im not gona reply to ur posts anymore...its just pure speculation
ill just leave u with some FACTS:
Steffi has 107 singles titles....Monica has 53
Steffi has 11 doubles titles....Monica has 6
Steffi has $21,895,277 in prizemoney....Monica has $14,891,762
Steffi has 22 grandslam singles titles....Monica has 9
Steffi has 1 grandslam doubles title....Moncia has 0
Steffi has 5 YEC singles titles....Monica has 3
Steffi has 305 more career singles wins and 7 less career singles losses than Monica
Steffi spent 377 weeks at world number 1 in singles....Monica spent 178

geez the truth must hurt for Monica fans :lol:
cya later LADIEZCHAMPION :wavey:

hingis-seles
Sep 17th, 2004, 10:06 AM
Laver not one of the best? He won the Grand Slam twice!

As for Serena, yes her accomplishment was brilliant. However, to say the competition was great is a joke, really. Hingis had all but retired, Davenport was coming back from knee surgery and couldn't close out matches, Kim & Justine were not the great players they would become and if Dokic was in the Top 10, that really does say a lot about the lack of depth at the time.

LADIEZ CHAMPION
Sep 17th, 2004, 10:09 AM
:haha: :haha: :haha: that is the most ridiculous argument ive ever seen :haha: in fact im not gona reply to ur posts anymore...its just pure speculation
ill just leave u with some FACTS:
Steffi has 107 singles titles....Monica has 53
Steffi has 11 doubles titles....Monica has 6
Steffi has $21,895,277 in prizemoney....Monica has $14,891,762
Steffi has 22 grandslam singles titles....Monica has 9
Steffi has 1 grandslam doubles title....Moncia has 0
Steffi has 5 YEC singles titles....Monica has 3
Steffi has 305 more career singles wins and 7 less career singles losses than Monica
Steffi spent 377 weeks at world number 1 in singles....Monica spent 178

geez the truth must hurt for Monica fans :lol:
cya later LADIEZCHAMPION :wavey:


referring to the hollow**asterisk** OVERLY inflated stats of Garf? Monica fans hurt? how funny. :angel: Guess who was the GREATEST combination in women's tennis history? clue : both are germans. :D

grafan92
Sep 17th, 2004, 10:15 AM
inflated???

They are factual numbers, the plain simple fact- Steffi won 22 Grand Slam singles titles.

LADIEZ CHAMPION
Sep 17th, 2004, 10:18 AM
inflated???

They are factual numbers, the plain simple fact- Steffi won 22 Grand Slam singles titles.

think! :D :angel:

grafan92
Sep 17th, 2004, 10:25 AM
Thought
:)

it still stands at 22
:)

That's what 'actually' happened. No 'ifs' and 'buts'. No 'would have' or 'could have'.

LADIEZ CHAMPION
Sep 17th, 2004, 10:29 AM
Thought
:)

it still stands at 22
:)

That's what 'actually' happened. No 'ifs' and 'buts'. No 'would have' or 'could have'.

really? are you serious? how funny. :D
**asterisk** still stands at 11 though :D :angel:

The Crow
Sep 17th, 2004, 10:45 AM
And there we go again.