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View Full Version : Interesting Fact about Jennifer and Third Set Tiebreakers


GoSandrine
Sep 15th, 2004, 05:00 AM
Roddickfan started a thread in the US Open Forum questioning Jennifer's third set tiebreak record and I took the liberty of copying it here. I found it very interesting that Jennifer is 6-9 in third set tiebreakers having lost her last four (see below) but she's undefeated (5-0) in other slams that extended beyond 7-5 where matches are decided by a margin of two games.

If only the US Open was played out in the third set Jennifer might have won a title or two here. :sad:


2004 US Open New York
SF L Elena DEMENTIEVA (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20008434) (RUS) 0-6 6-2 6-7(5)

2004 Italian Open Rome
FR L Amelie MAURESMO (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20005298) (FRA) 6-3 3-6 6-7(6)

2003 Kremlin Cup Moscow
16 L Elena BOVINA (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20005486) (RUS) 6-4 4-6 6-7(3)

2003 US Open New York
SF L Justine HENIN-HARDENNE (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20010490) (BEL) 6-4 5-7 6-7(4)

2002 Key Biscayne
SF W Monica SELES (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20001353) (USA) 4-6 6-3 7-6(4)

2001 Italian Open Rome
32 L Rita KUTI KIS (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20002777) (HUN) 6-1 2-6 6-7(5)

2001 Key Biscayne
FR L Venus WILLIAMS (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20005009) (USA) 6-4 1-6 6-7(4)

2000 Zurich
32 W Lina KRASNOROUTSKAYA (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20011368) (RUS) 5-7 6-3 7-6(6)

1998 Quebec City
16 L Sandrine TESTUD (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20000980) (FRA) 3-6 7-5 6-7

1997 Hilton Head
64 W Mary-Joe FERNANDEZ (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20003072) (USA) 6-3 4-6 7-6

1992 Italian Open Rome
32 W Anna-Maria CECCHINI (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20001792) (ITA) 6-4 3-6 7-6

1991 Virginia Slims Championships
16 W Nathalie TAUZIAT (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20001542) (FRA) 5-7 6-0 7-6

1991 San Diego
FR W Monica SELES (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20001353) (YUG) 4-6 6-1 7-6

1991 US Open
SF L Monica SELES (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20001353) (YUG) 3-6 6-3 6-7(3)

1990 Tokyo
QF L Katerina MALEEVA (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/players/player.asp?player=20000593) (BUL) 6-7 6-3 6-7

GoSandrine
Sep 15th, 2004, 12:39 PM
bump :wavey:

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Sep 15th, 2004, 12:49 PM
Interesting - nice work.

bandabou
Sep 15th, 2004, 01:18 PM
Interesting...and in at least two of those losses she SERVED for the match!!

The Crow
Sep 15th, 2004, 01:56 PM
Interesting indeed.

So, the conclusion is? That she's physically better??

SerenaSlam
Sep 15th, 2004, 01:59 PM
Interesting indeed.

So, the conclusion is? That she's physically better??
no, but dunno what the conclusion is either :lol:

AjdeNate!
Sep 15th, 2004, 02:03 PM
Interesting...and in at least two of those losses she SERVED for the match!!
3 at least... all 3 SF USO. In 91, she served for it twice. I think 2 times in 03 as well.

GoDominique
Sep 15th, 2004, 02:07 PM
Interesting. :)

Jen often has trouble to serve out the match, so you would think she might have a better chance in a TB.
In those matches that went beyond 7-5, did she serve it out, or did she break to win the match?

6.45PM
Sep 15th, 2004, 02:11 PM
Interesting. :)

Jen often has trouble to serve out the match, so you would think she might have a better chance in a TB.
In those matches that went beyond 7-5, did she serve it out, or did she break to win the match?

in RG 2001, she served out the match...... :D 12-10! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: Wonderful memories

Chunchun
Sep 15th, 2004, 02:15 PM
interesting

jen always choke in 3rd TB?

samn
Sep 15th, 2004, 02:15 PM
Interesting...and in at least two of those losses she SERVED for the match!!

Capriati definitely served for the match in four of those losses:
v. Seles @ US Open 1991 (served for the match at 5-4 and again at 6-5)
v. Williams @ Key Biscayne 2001 (had eight matchpoints and served a double fault on one of those matchpoints)
v. Henin-Hardenne @ US Open 2003
v. Dementieva @ US Open 2004

croat123
Sep 15th, 2004, 04:36 PM
i was at the match vs. venus

jen had 8 match points (i think), one of them clipped the tape and went just wide. she served for it twice

Chrissie-fan
Sep 15th, 2004, 06:55 PM
I don't think it's right to decide the final set of a match in a Grand Slam tournament on a tiebreak,irrelevant of whether it improves Jenny's (or anyone else's) chances or not.

Gaston

bandabou
Sep 15th, 2004, 06:59 PM
Yeah....Im with chrissie-fan on this one. Matches at a grand slam should just go the distance.

Julian
Sep 15th, 2004, 07:00 PM
So the answer is:

Jen and 3rd set tiebreaks just dont go together lol

hablo
Sep 15th, 2004, 07:41 PM
I personnally don't like tiebreaks in the third set. :(

But I'm glad Dementieva won ;) :lol: :lol:

samn
Sep 15th, 2004, 08:39 PM
Yeah....Im with chrissie-fan on this one. Matches at a grand slam should just go the distance.

I agree, but I wouldn't trade the thrilling experience of watching do-or-die third set tiebreaks in the 1985 Open final (Mandlikova v. Navratilova) and the 1986 Open semis (Navratilova v. Graf) for anything!

tommystar
Sep 15th, 2004, 08:52 PM
She also served for the match against Bovina last year at Moscow.

She had matchpoint(s) at 5-3 on Bovina's serve, got broken easily (at love or 15) at 5-4 when she served for it, saved matchpoints at 5-6, but lost the tiebreak.

cartmancop
Sep 15th, 2004, 09:30 PM
I think she is fitter than a lot of players & can last much deeper in the 3rd set & when its cut to a TB she can't take advantage of that. Also her serve is not as strong as many of the top players & she never gets many free points on it.

GoSandrine
Sep 15th, 2004, 10:39 PM
Interesting. :)

Jen often has trouble to serve out the match, so you would think she might have a better chance in a TB.
In those matches that went beyond 7-5, did she serve it out, or did she break to win the match?
I don't recall the other four. GoD, maybe you can help with one of them? ;)

2002 French Open
FRWhttp://www.itftennis.com/shared/images/players/h2h.gif (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/headtohead.asp?player=20002361&opponent=20011723) Kim CLIJSTERS (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/player.asp?player=20011723) (BEL) 1-6 6-4 12-10

2000 Australian Open
64Whttp://www.itftennis.com/shared/images/players/h2h.gif (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/headtohead.asp?player=20002361&opponent=20000798) Dominique VAN ROOST (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/player.asp?player=20000798)(BEL) 6-1 4-6 8-6

1999 Wimbledon
128Whttp://www.itftennis.com/shared/images/players/h2h.gif (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/headtohead.asp?player=20002361&opponent=20003211) Anke HUBER (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/player.asp?player=20003211) (GER) 5-7 6-3 9-7

1999 Australian Open
128Whttp://www.itftennis.com/shared/images/players/h2h.gif (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/headtohead.asp?player=20002361&opponent=20005723) Evie DOMINIKOVIC (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/player.asp?player=20005723) (AUS) 5-7 6-3 8-6

1993 Wimbledon
16Whttp://www.itftennis.com/shared/images/players/h2h.gif (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/headtohead.asp?player=20002361&opponent=20000238) Lisa RAYMOND (http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/player.asp?player=20000238) (USA) 4-6 6-3 8-6

GoSandrine
Sep 15th, 2004, 10:52 PM
I think she is fitter than a lot of players & can last much deeper in the 3rd set & when its cut to a TB she can't take advantage of that. Also her serve is not as strong as many of the top players & she never gets many free points on it.
She may not look it but I'd agree with you that Jennifer is fitter than alot of players (at least endurance wise).

Nerves are definitely a factor. There's so much pressure in third set tiebreaks particularly at a slam and one in which Jennifer desperately wants to win.

Discounting Monica's win in 91 where it was more Monica kicking it up a gear than Jennifer choking, I'd say that Jennifer put too much pressure on herself these last two years knowing she had great opportunities to advance. She just can't seem to relax enough to get through these very tight matches late in the tournament.

If she was afforded a cushion of a game at a time after 6-6 in each of these matches she may have been able to gather herself after losing the twelfth or hypothetically the thirteenth games.

This isn't to say she would have beaten Justine, Elena, Monica, or any of these matches but it is interesting fodder. :)

GoSandrine
Sep 16th, 2004, 02:13 AM
I agree, but I wouldn't trade the thrilling experience of watching do-or-die third set tiebreaks in the 1985 Open final (Mandlikova v. Navratilova) and the 1986 Open semis (Navratilova v. Graf) for anything!I agree with you. Although the extended third set formula may be more fair to the players, those classic endings never would have occurred. The third set tiebreaker adds alot of drama and sets the US Open apart from other slams.